dewalt bros...

Is this false advertisement?

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why, because it's ackshually 5 microns larger than 19 mm?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There's no gold coating on it, and the shaft is different.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You should get that farm whatever guy with the high pitched voice to test it. It might actually be a better coating.

        Why, because it's ackshually 5 microns larger than 19 mm?

        pic related is like kryptonite for autists

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >It might actually be a better coating.
          There is no coating at all.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Grind a bit off somewhere that doesn't matter and it might be a different color underneath. Doesn't that look more of a gold tint than steel?

            And apparently it's not a "toughness" coating, just to prevent rust: "The DEWALT Black & Gold Metal Drill Bits feature a black and gold coating to prevent rust. The tapered web design provides extreme durability to resist breakage. The bits feature a 3-flats shank to reduce spin-out in the chuck. Black & Gold metal drill bitst are made of heavy-duty High Speed Steel "

            HSS is not gold colored.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It looks like it's already been damaged. There's sign of the black oxide being worn off, dirt on the bit, little dings on the corners, and the coloration and shaft are completely different from the product photo. Either Dewalt is selling last-gen refurbs as brand new, there was a manufacturing defect, or Home Depot is selling bootlegs now. I have a bunch of DeWalt drill bits and they are all bright gold as seen in the product photo.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Is this false advertisement?
            No, you got a 3/4" reduced shank bit with the coatings it says it has
            If you really wanted a 3flat shank, you can be mad, but 3 flat shanks suck anyways.

            That clearly has a black oxide coating on the flutes, and a gold oxide coating on the lands, margins, and cutting edges

            https://i.imgur.com/1cusdnv.jpg

            It looks like it's already been damaged. There's sign of the black oxide being worn off, dirt on the bit, little dings on the corners, and the coloration and shaft are completely different from the product photo. Either Dewalt is selling last-gen refurbs as brand new, there was a manufacturing defect, or Home Depot is selling bootlegs now. I have a bunch of DeWalt drill bits and they are all bright gold as seen in the product photo.

            >There's sign of the black oxide being worn off, dirt on the bit, little dings on the corners, and the coloration and shaft are completely different from the product photo
            This is the reality of buying any import Silver and Deming bit. They are all sort of beat up and made kind of rough no matter what the brand.
            You have to pay big money to get nice S&D bits.

            > I have a bunch of DeWalt drill bits and they are all bright gold as seen in the product photo.
            Those are TiN coated drill bits, not gold oxide hence why the gold ones are gold and the TiN ones are bright yellow

            Dewalt has above average standard drill bits (for cheap big box bits).
            For some reason all of the import cheap S&D bits have shitty grinds, doesnt matter what brand. Irwin, Century, Dewalt, house brands. They are all just rough.

            This is one of those very few cases where you are better off just buying Amazon/Ebay S&D bits.
            Return that one bit to HD and get the 8pc kits for $30-50
            They sell them in straight black oxide with 118deg and they sell them in 135deg with black and gold

            Here is a 135 black and gold set for cheap. Take your pick of any random chink name brand, they are all the same.
            https://www.amazon.com/Choice-8-Piece-Silver-Deming-Aluminum/dp/B074GYFPL4/

            You can just resharpen them over and over, better use of your money.

            Grind a bit off somewhere that doesn't matter and it might be a different color underneath. Doesn't that look more of a gold tint than steel?

            And apparently it's not a "toughness" coating, just to prevent rust: "The DEWALT Black & Gold Metal Drill Bits feature a black and gold coating to prevent rust. The tapered web design provides extreme durability to resist breakage. The bits feature a 3-flats shank to reduce spin-out in the chuck. Black & Gold metal drill bitst are made of heavy-duty High Speed Steel "

            HSS is not gold colored.

            The coatings put on cheap drill bits literally dont matter.
            They are so thin, the first time you drill something the coating rips off anyways.
            In essence, the only purpose they have is to keep rust off.
            They are going to black and gold because it looks more premium on the shelf, not because its better or worse than TiN.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Do you happen to have any references for that? I'm not doubting your word, but I'd like to learn more.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oh and if you want to learn more, just go find machinist resources on modern coatings for endmills. Its a gigantic rabbit hole where people pay lots of money to manufacture slightly more efficient, as itll pay for itself down the line.
                Youll get a lot better data from that then Home Depots website claiming youll get "10x the life" from buying the colored bits over the black ones.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Thanks. I'll see if I can find a turbo-autist youtube channel that talks about where all these bits come from and how to tell the difference.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The most important thing is a high quality grind.
                When you are paying for USA made drill bits, the money mostly goes into QC and grinding tolerances.

                If you want to step your drill bit game up, pony up the money for good bits from a machinist brand.
                If you cant swing it, you can also take chinese bits and regrind them yourself.
                If you get good with a drill doctor or a sharpening jig, you can make the chinese drills run better than new, assuming they arent bent or something else is wrong with them.

                Just because something is chinese doesnt mean the grind is terrible, and some big box store brands can be great if it was ground on a good day. The problem is the QC wildly varies as they just arent paid or even told to hold high tolerances.

                Learning about coatings can be fun and all, but youll realize that the only people who take it seriously are companies selling you $100 a piece drill bits.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                not OP but I'm going to learn more about this, just so I know what to look out for at estate sales...

                What is best way to sharpen drill bits? I've never done that before.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >What is best way to sharpen drill bits?
                A standard drill doctor works better than you would think
                Pic related work well with a bench grinder too, but you cant split points. But not the end of the world
                If you are running around Estate sales, look for Darex machines, or any special benchtop machine made for sharpening endmills/drills
                Some companies like Atlas made a drill grinding jig which is pretty neat.

                I personally own a Darex M2 since I left the grindshop and cant sharpen shit at work anymore. Can be had cheap enough if you look hard.

                Doing it by and and a bench grinder can also give you pretty good results if you hone the skill.

                As for what actual drill bits to buy at garage sales, just buy any badged USA or any from reputiable brands.
                As long as the shafts havent been ripped apart by spinning in the chuck, you can chop the end and regrind a new tip.

                I tend to see a lot of Hanson branded drills at estate sales. They were plentiful and high quality back in the day.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The Practical Machinist forums are outstanding as are non-pro hobby machining forums (since many hobby machinists are retired pros).

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                check Project Farm, that guy has tested everything and may have a video that will help you

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I get 10x the life from simply not putting the bits back in their index religously and not being able to find them next time so I end up grabbing one from my big bucket of random old bits that are still good for a couple of holes, or using an awl or a phillips screwdriver instead.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >They are so thin, the first time you drill something the coating rips off anyways
              so someone bought it, used it, then returned it?
              i'd suggest going back to where you found it and replacing it for one that looks like the picture
              when I was buying some bolt cutters, it took a lot of digging to find one that was actually new and not used. so many people buy use then return stuff, i wouldn't be surprised if they did that with a drill bit

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >so someone bought it, used it, then returned it?
                That would be pretty hard to do with a blister pack or a sealed plastic square container
                A large chunk of HSS is expensive so they cheap out hard on the grinding (which is also expensive for a drill that size), so for chink bits they routinely look like garbage right out of the box.

                Do you happen to have any references for that? I'm not doubting your word, but I'd like to learn more.

                >Do you happen to have any references for that?
                For what exactly?
                All I have are anecdotes from working in a grind shop, where we would sharpen and recoat drill bits and endmills.
                There isnt a resource out somewhere that tells you Dewalt coatings are shit, but you just know it by seeing the cutting edge missing its coating after using it once or twice.

                When they make claims about lubricity and longer lasting, they are based off CNC machines using controlled speeds and feeds, under coolant.
                Good coatings DO make a HUGE difference in those circumstances.
                Its all about keeping the drill cool under coolant.
                In reality, if you arent using coolant in a hand drill with poor speed control, coatings like TiN can CAUSE more friction and heat than not.

                There is also a reason that GOOD drill bit companies that use coatings use exotic TiAln and AlTin and other modern coatings meant for those specific purposes.
                And for people who are just wanting a good brand to use on their regular manual milling machine, you just buy Bright (polished HSS) or Black Oxide, or Norseman and others do black and gold to look premium.
                TiN is fucking garbage and nobody uses it as it barely does anything over standard HSS.

                For cheap bits, its all a marketing deal, seriously.
                It looks good on the shelf, saying its "Titanium" makes it seem better, and it wont rust from sitting in the garage after a few months.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >All I have are anecdotes from working in a grind shop, where we would sharpen and recoat drill bits and endmills.

                That's more than enough to support your contention. Regrind shops see it all.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >for people who are just wanting a good brand to use on their regular manual milling machine, you just buy Bright (polished HSS) or Black Oxide
                So, does the black oxide coating actually help hold oil, and does that help lubrication, or just keep the drills from getting rusty?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Thats the idea ive always heard.
                Can marginally help hold oil and stay cooler in ferrous metals.
                If you run them hard in aluminum, they will gall up.
                Rule of thumb is ferrous some sort of nitride coating is helpful, nonferrous = bright polished or some very specific Aluminum only coatings.

                Its hard to prove any of this shit one way or the other though unless you are running CNC.

                I mean ever "black oxide" coatings arent all created equal.
                They all call it black oxide, but some are really deep blacks that are shiny and very slick while some are a matte black that feel almost rough to the touch.

                I know for a fact I have some Dewalt Black Oxide bits with some light aluminum galling on them.
                I also know I have extensively used Norseman Super Premiums which have black oxide flutes and gold outside margins. I have never seen a spec of galling on them despite also being Black Oxide.
                And I have some Dormer Black Oxides that dont seem to gall either, and they are rough to to the touch.

                I dont really put too much thought into my personal bits as far as coatings go really.
                From an actual usability and practical standpoint I dont think it really matters. I wont ever notice a small percentage better performance as I dont run a production line.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >so someone bought it, used it, then returned it?
              That would be pretty hard to do with a blister pack or a sealed plastic square container
              A large chunk of HSS is expensive so they cheap out hard on the grinding (which is also expensive for a drill that size), so for chink bits they routinely look like garbage right out of the box.

              [...]
              >Do you happen to have any references for that?
              For what exactly?
              All I have are anecdotes from working in a grind shop, where we would sharpen and recoat drill bits and endmills.
              There isnt a resource out somewhere that tells you Dewalt coatings are shit, but you just know it by seeing the cutting edge missing its coating after using it once or twice.

              When they make claims about lubricity and longer lasting, they are based off CNC machines using controlled speeds and feeds, under coolant.
              Good coatings DO make a HUGE difference in those circumstances.
              Its all about keeping the drill cool under coolant.
              In reality, if you arent using coolant in a hand drill with poor speed control, coatings like TiN can CAUSE more friction and heat than not.

              There is also a reason that GOOD drill bit companies that use coatings use exotic TiAln and AlTin and other modern coatings meant for those specific purposes.
              And for people who are just wanting a good brand to use on their regular manual milling machine, you just buy Bright (polished HSS) or Black Oxide, or Norseman and others do black and gold to look premium.
              TiN is fucking garbage and nobody uses it as it barely does anything over standard HSS.

              For cheap bits, its all a marketing deal, seriously.
              It looks good on the shelf, saying its "Titanium" makes it seem better, and it wont rust from sitting in the garage after a few months.

              not OP, but thanks for the advice
              big bump in knowledge i never knew i needed until now
              here, have this doggo
              you earned it.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Bless those puppers

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              OP here, I'm taking this thing back to HD tonight and looking for a replacement on the rack instead of ordering online, pretty sure they stock these. I'm a regular so they'll probably just swap it out as long as the ones on the rack look normal.

              >>Is this false advertisement?
              >No
              Highly elegant bait?

              https://i.imgur.com/maGqLY6.jpg

              >just use the damn bit

              This. If you buy a small cutting tool under $50 or a larger like this drill for under $100 the coating has only one purpose and that is marketing. It looks cooler and they have something to write about.

              OPs drill just looks like the coating wasn't done long enough or it had a bad spot on the rack and the coating is way too light. Who cares. And yes of course it's false advertising unless it says somewhere the product pic is only similar.

              Coatings have their use but are mostly irrelevant (or even a disadvantage) in a homeshop.

              [...]
              >Pic related work well with a bench grinder too, but you cant split points. But not the end of the world
              I never saw a machinist not disliking these. Pic rel. seems to be all the rage today. I guess the chinese upped their game and they are actually usable now and do a good split point grind.

              I do a four facet grind + split point on a TnC grinder. I probably would get a Deckel S0 clone before i get a dedicated drill grinder but it depends on what you do. If you only need drills a drill grinder is way more convenient. Manual is always the cheapest.

              Btw. all those youtube drill tests with equal force are meaningless. If the steel is HSS all the difference is from different point geometries. One may drill faster than the other with the same force but that may change completely under different circumstances. A "faster" drill has a smaller and less rugged tip. If you have a drill grinder try different angles on the same drill. You can get everything from super high pressure but lasting in heat treated steel to going perfect in POM but lasting 2 seconds in mild steel with the same piece of HSS.

              >And yes of course it's false advertising unless it says somewhere the product pic is only similar.
              Aaaand that's why I'm returning it. The shaft doesn't have the flat portions on it to prevent rotating either, so it's not like the coating is the only defect, but I don't want it to rust either.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >but I don't want it to rust either

                It will rust either way.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't know what people do to make their shit rust. I mostly have Dewalt bits that I get when the big boxes have crazy sales, and I've never anything rust. The only rusty bit I have is my 3/4" Irwin speedbor that I thought I lost and found in the dirt almost a year later. Even then it cleaned up fine.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                update: I went to HD and they had like 10 of these and they all look exactly the same. Just scummy marketing on DeWalt's part is all.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Highly elegant bait?
                No, just a basic understanding that products are subject to change.
                That picture is over 7 years old on that listing.

                If you would have checked ebay you would see both color patterns, almost no 3 flat shanks, and even older black oxide only bits all with the same model number.
                This is big box store shit anon, its not uncommon to see 2 different revisions of the same exact tool on the shelf, and one be different than the other.

                Anyone who has spent any time buying tools by now should know shit changes routinely and that listings arent 100% accurate. And when you are in store you check all the stock on the shelf to make sure they havent cheaped out on the newer stock.

                update: I went to HD and they had like 10 of these and they all look exactly the same. Just scummy marketing on DeWalt's part is all.

                > Just scummy marketing on DeWalt's part is all.
                Dewalt doesnt run Home Depots marketing department.

                You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
                Cosmetic changes arent a "defect", and getting a more accurate bit without flats should make you happy instead of angry.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Firstly, DeWalt is just a brand, they don't make anything. The business was acquired by Stanley (now Stanley Black and Decker) eons ago. Secondly, Stanley more than likely did produce this type of product photo and they're being used on multiple websites for sale:
                https://schillings.com/products/building-materials/dewalt-3-4%E2%80%B3-black-and-gold-metal-drill-bit/
                https://www.lowes.com/pd/DEWALT-7-32-in-x-3-3-4-in-Black-Oxide-Coated-Hss-Twist-Drill-Bit/3422732
                https://www.walmart.com/ip/DEWALT-Black-and-Gold-Drill-Bit-Set-21-Piece/638152078
                It's quite obviously a failure to properly represent the actual product being sold.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Firstly, DeWalt is just a brand, they don't make anything. The business was acquired by Stanley (now Stanley Black and Decker) eons ago.
                Nobody said to the contrary, and its quite irrelevant to this conversation.
                You are just trying to be pedantic and make a point that literally doesnt matter

                >Secondly, Stanley more than likely did produce this type of product photo and they're being used on multiple websites for sale:
                True, I never said they didnt so im not sure why you are implying I did.

                >It's quite obviously a failure to properly represent the actual product being sold.
                Thats the websites job to update their own listing.
                You posted one site where its black and gold with 3 shanks, and 2 other sites with completely different bits.

                Im not going to waste time going back and forth with you over the fact you have extreme autism, but Amazon and Napa and Grainger all have pictures showing no flats and black oxide. Its not hard to find websites showing conflicting information.
                Is that also Dewalts fault that it shows the old Black Oxide pictures which they never updated?

                You need to take a step back and realize how dumb you are being.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're just arguing for the sake of it. It's very clear through the fact that some of those images are identical across websites, that Stanley provided either A) the bulk of the marketing images or B) a prototype that is not like the real product. This is a failure that's not on the part of the supplier.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >supplier
                Meant reseller.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >You're just arguing for the sake of it.
                No, you are just being a gay for being a gays sake.
                You can argue till you are blue in the face, but having almost 10 year old online listing pictures that dont 100% match the cosmetics of the current product is not rare or uncommon.
                Nobody is going to jump up and down and tell you how right you were and how awful the Dewalt marketing department is, how you were greatly wronged and deserve reparations.

                Ive seen at least 3 different pictures, that were used on multiple different sites, meaning that they have sent out marketing pictures on at least 3 different occasions over the last decade to update listings.

                That sort of stuff happens when you continually change your product over the years, its not a slight against you.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >words words words
                >you're the one being a gay
                try harder

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                there isn't a material or meaningful difference between the two drill bits just because the color is different
                You're not going to turn this into a case for false advertisement lol

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Just because it's not a strong enough case to fly in court doesn't change the reality that it is blatant flase advertisement. All that means is that they've learned how much lying they're able to get away with.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >19mm is 0.748031 inches
          >19mm is 0.75 inches
          >18mm is 1 inch
          >18mm is just short of 0.75 inches
          >18mm is 0.70866 inches

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        yeah dummy, the current gold spot price per ounce is $1707 USD and it wouldn't even make a good drill bit because it's so soft and malleable. Of course they're not going to give you real gold.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >shaft

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Chinese knockoff is a science at this point.
    Probably packaged on the acutal DeWalt packing line after hours.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      its from home depot

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >its from home depot
        Yes, and? You think their supply chain is somehow immune?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >You think their supply chain is somehow immune?
          Yes, obviously. Its like you think these billion dollar companies supply chains arent locked down tight. If you were a bootlegger, you wouldnt try to break into a fort knox supply chain when amazon, wish, ebay and many others welcome counterfeiters. Youd get your whole operation shut down

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    just use the damn bit

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >just use the damn bit

      This. If you buy a small cutting tool under $50 or a larger like this drill for under $100 the coating has only one purpose and that is marketing. It looks cooler and they have something to write about.

      OPs drill just looks like the coating wasn't done long enough or it had a bad spot on the rack and the coating is way too light. Who cares. And yes of course it's false advertising unless it says somewhere the product pic is only similar.

      Coatings have their use but are mostly irrelevant (or even a disadvantage) in a homeshop.

      https://i.imgur.com/PdieEXR.jpg

      >What is best way to sharpen drill bits?
      A standard drill doctor works better than you would think
      Pic related work well with a bench grinder too, but you cant split points. But not the end of the world
      If you are running around Estate sales, look for Darex machines, or any special benchtop machine made for sharpening endmills/drills
      Some companies like Atlas made a drill grinding jig which is pretty neat.

      I personally own a Darex M2 since I left the grindshop and cant sharpen shit at work anymore. Can be had cheap enough if you look hard.

      Doing it by and and a bench grinder can also give you pretty good results if you hone the skill.

      As for what actual drill bits to buy at garage sales, just buy any badged USA or any from reputiable brands.
      As long as the shafts havent been ripped apart by spinning in the chuck, you can chop the end and regrind a new tip.

      I tend to see a lot of Hanson branded drills at estate sales. They were plentiful and high quality back in the day.

      >Pic related work well with a bench grinder too, but you cant split points. But not the end of the world
      I never saw a machinist not disliking these. Pic rel. seems to be all the rage today. I guess the chinese upped their game and they are actually usable now and do a good split point grind.

      I do a four facet grind + split point on a TnC grinder. I probably would get a Deckel S0 clone before i get a dedicated drill grinder but it depends on what you do. If you only need drills a drill grinder is way more convenient. Manual is always the cheapest.

      Btw. all those youtube drill tests with equal force are meaningless. If the steel is HSS all the difference is from different point geometries. One may drill faster than the other with the same force but that may change completely under different circumstances. A "faster" drill has a smaller and less rugged tip. If you have a drill grinder try different angles on the same drill. You can get everything from super high pressure but lasting in heat treated steel to going perfect in POM but lasting 2 seconds in mild steel with the same piece of HSS.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why would you want a gold coating you spastic? You obviously know nothing about metals. You need to find the solid gold bit, that's the best

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is that normal? Looks like its fucked up

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Honestly? It's a bit suHispanicious but I've seen weirder. Yellow zinc and black oxide bolts don't look the same size even when they have identical dimensions. It's a weird trick of the light, and they don't look the same size in photos either. If it says it's 3/4" on the box, it should be 3/4". If it's not, return it. But don't buy shitty "final sale" parts unless you're sure its what you want.

      I've got into arguments with clients about this sort of thing before. If the supplier says it's a 7/16-14X1 3/4 UNC, it's a 7/16-14X1 3/4 UNC and it doesn't matter what colour it is. Same goes for tools. Lots of different colours of bits and adapters now, which usually imply what they're made of but that's not absolute across the board.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    yes because they're colored (and priced) to look like cobalt bits but they're just like everyone else's generic chinesium medium speed steel

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