Defeating Lv.4 plates

How much energy would a bullet need to pierce Level 4 plates at 1300 yds?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >at 1300 yds?

    why specifically that distance

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      margin I guess... NGSW called for 1200 yds engagement range iirc

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        outside of massive HMG rounds you aren't getting through 4s. they're simply too thick to be defeated by speed alone outside of sci-fi shit.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          338?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            maybe depends on the bullet and velocities but 338lapua is still a really big round

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              For you.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Personal armor Chads we are so back. The arms and armor race is finally over.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >he doesn't know about pelvis meta

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >he doesn't know about Lvl4 groin plates
              The average tard who preaches 'pelvis meta' would probably use a shotgun stopped by soft flaps anyway

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >wiener status; blocked
              Miss me with that shit.
              https://www.bestprotection.de/koerperschutzsysteme/hartballistik/nij-level-4-stand-alone-keramikplatte-hartschutzeinschub-uls-unterleibschutz.html

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Lol anyways

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            this cant be real

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >The primary loading of the standard ball round fires a saboted 2 g (31 gr), 4 mm (0.16 in) diameter tungsten kinetic penetrator, weighing a total of 2.5 g (39 gr) with the sabot.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                No cus it says 6.5 so it's a regular 6.5 comparable to whatever my favorite is out of whatever barrel length I say, which is what I'm going to repost in every thread from now on.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                so its like shooting a guy with bbs

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                A BB that punches straight through the body and shatters any bone it comes in contact with.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                yeah its so good everyones using it

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Probably something to do with a sidearm whose primary loading is tungsten. Gotta love spending $200 to fill the magazine of a weapon that will never be fired in anger.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                well god knows 280 british was complete garbage and 277 fury is the hottest shit in town exclusively because of whos using them

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                DAS FRICKIN RITE

                RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Terminal effect is the overriding concern with military ammunition issue
                LOOOOOL

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            not level IV nobody cares

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Steel
            Anon do you know anything about what's being discussed here?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      driveway

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      entrenched pit bull fortification

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There's no across the board answer to that. An identically shaped pair of bullets of equal mass, one lead core, one tungsten core, will perform differently. Moreover different level 4 plates will take different amounts of abuse; the NIJ standard is likable to saying "this guy can do a minimum of 4 pushups" it doesn't tell you how much more than 4 one can do. So there's probably a velocity where SOME specific bullet will reach the limit of its ability to penetrative SOME specific plate model, but that's always gonna give you a general estimate at best, not a universal benchmark

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      maybe depends on the bullet and velocities but 338lapua is still a really big round

      For you.

      I mean an M2 AP 30-06 is a 166 gr bullet at 2715 fps = 2720 ft-lbf.

      The 408 cheytac delivers 2981 ft-lbf at 1300 yds, so it may be capable of penetrating it

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        There is way more to armor penetration than just energy, sectional density, penetrator shape, material being impacted etc. A 10ga shotgun has more energy than those two rounds but will get stopped by level III plates

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        NIJ Level 4 is rated against M2 AP at 2880 FPS, not the standard 2700 FPS, and you'd need more energy to punch a .408 hole than a .308 hole. The cheytac wouldn't penetrate at 1300 yards.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's a 419 gr solid copper bullet shot at 3000 fps.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Doesn't matter, it's a bigger, softer bullet with less energy when it hits.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              5.56 lead core beats level III when 5.56 mild steel core will not. The devil is in the details when it comes to defeating armor.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Okay, so what about copper vs tool steel?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                What do you mean "okay". My entire, and exclusive, point is that bullet shape matters just as much as composition and energy.

                I can absolutely design a tool steel projectile that will fail where a completely different copper projectile succeeds. I could even design them with the same energy, if the difference in design was extreme enough.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      maybe depends on the bullet and velocities but 338lapua is still a really big round

      For you.

      https://shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=9752cfae

      3rd chart from the top

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Just hold over the sternum. Especially at close range, doubly so if you're running a shotgun. It's a wider target than the head, and hosts a vein, an artery, the airway, and the spinal cord. Hitting any one of these four organs will take anyone out of the fight quickly, and you get a free set of lightly-used armor plates!

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The sternum is protected by the plate, bro

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Barely. Cheat rings on armor are something I considered when first writing. Now when you add neck and face protection to the equation, shotguns and PCC's become useless. Just aim for their buckets and let BFD do the heavy lifting. It pays to be able to determine the make of a high-cut lid by sight.

        shotgun users really are pitiful

        All guns go bang. A Saiga-style shotgun with drums and the right loads could stand-in for LMG's. Then again, so can any semi-auto .308 rifle with drums. Or PCC's with drums for that matter. The only thing that changes is your reach.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      shotgun users really are pitiful

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Shotgun users

        Buddy, were aiming at the fricking balls. I don't know what this guy is talking about

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          NTA
          I'm not trusting my life to any anti armor strategy that can be defeated with a flap of IIA

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >flap
            You think you're going to be standing after taking a blast to the flap? I doesn't matter if none of the pellets penetrate, if it's soft armor that's like the mother of all kicks to the balls.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              https://i.imgur.com/IOiyqIw.jpg

              ?t=54

              >Flap and a cup

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              This guy is prepared to tank buckshot to his nads (they impacted a bullet resistant cloth first so he's fine)

              Yes, because all that energy is spread out over a large surface area and my legs will absorb it, and I will ignore the middling pain due to adrenaline. Then I shoot armorlets in center mass and loot their corpse. A little BFD literally and figuratively never killed anyone.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            This guy is prepared to tank buckshot to his nads (they impacted a bullet resistant cloth first so he's fine)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            ?t=54

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Energy is only one part of the equation, core material of the bullet, and the core shape, are also incredibly important.
    There's a .30 caliber AP round that beat a plate that bounced .308 AP, 30-06, 338, and even steel core 50 BMG.

    It all comes down to design in the end.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Depends on the projectile design. Level 4 is rated to stop steel core AP .30-06 168gr travelling at 2880 FPS. In theory, that same projectile travelling over 2900 FPS should have a chance of penetrating. In order to maintain 2900+ FPS at 1300 yards, you'd need about 7000 FPS at the muzzle. That's faster than the rate of expansion of existing powders, so you'd need to use a high explosive charge or a light gas gun or something.

    tl;dr: I don't know, probably 20mm APDS would do it.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    All the socom nigs are moving to .338, so that's what I would do if I had the money. .338NM, since that's what I've seen. You can get a semi-auto for only $9000 and like $6 per round!

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >How much energy would a bullet need to pierce Level 4 plates at 1300 yds?
    the same as would be needed at any given range for a given projectile and strike geometry.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >The armorchad FEARS the 25mm grenade

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Soft armor can stop frag you know?

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The yardstick to beat is roughly 10-13mm RHA at 0 degrees obliquity at 1300m.
    At 1300m, 50cal M33 ball has ~3000ftlbs left to give. Distinctly undermatched for a IV plate at that distance.
    Even something like 14.5x114 is gonna have a harder than usual time at that range.
    For my money, I reckon the 15.2x169 APFSDS from the Steyr IWS2000 would be an excellent foil to a level IV plate at 1300m.
    The FN BRG-15 could apparently penetrate 10mm RHA sloped at 30 degrees at 1350m, so thats another reasonable option. Have fun finding a canceled prototype HMG.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Stupid question: would short barreled shotguns unironically be effective against lvl 4 plates by having such high spread that the shot is more likely to shoot around the plate instead of hitting it directly?

    This may be an offensively stupid question, but my knowledge of shotgun ballistics and how it might work against armor is limited.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You're better off aiming for the head than aiming for the body and hoping to miss.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Armor is meant to cover vitals. Even if you shoot around armor you're not going to hit anything important and your target will only be pissed off

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Are you stupid? Have you never heard of a spinal column? It doesn't matter how pissed off your little manlet ass is when your spine gets severed

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Unless it's armored too. Enjoy die because I will be shooting as well

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      1. buckshot doesnt spread as fast as you think it does
      2. Soft armor stops buckshot.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Aim for the pelvis

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Is it even worth trying to pen modern ballistic armor?

    Just based off combat footage I've seen from ukraine, most kills come from frag, artillery, or shots to places other than the plate. If you can use a lighter round that you can can carry more of and fire at a faster rate compared to a round that will pen armor plates, it seems like that'd be the smarter way to go about it.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Question for the armor autists of K. During the Afghanistan war, regular leaf troops were issued steel plates, while the fancy boys got ceramics. Any idea what make/model these steel plates were,? Were they the same steel plates that all the current gun fantasist types b***h about being prone to 'spalling'?

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    this thing would probably do it
    .338 lapua with a tungsten core, and a titanium tip for ""incendiary marking"" purposes

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The titanium is supposed to make a bunch of sparks when it hits something metal or something along those lines
      The only benefit I can see from this is probably causing a gas tank to catch on fire when you shoot it. Maybe it has the same effect as those ww2 armor piercing caps (preventing the shell from shattering)

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        that's actually SLAP-T, has a 5.56 tracer instead of a tungsten rod

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      At 1300 yards?
      LOL
      It might not even penetrate at 50.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    7.62x51 NATO ball

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