Could Soviet scrap metal be fully integrated into the Western-doctrine armed forces?

(other than as targets for practice shooting)

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the current ukrainian army doctrine is basically a fusion of the two so yes its very much possible

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What is the point? I mean if you need a certain amount of armoured vehicles then yes, if nothing else is available. Technically you should keep standardized equipment in order to have easy access to spare parts and such.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yeah. Mechanically most of it is just fine. The armor, engines, guns and so on all work. The electronics that makes NATO powerful can be added on top of old Soviet cold war tech. Heck most of it is added on top of old US cold war tech.
    Of course they would still be lacking in area's that require new platforms like Stealth aircraft and a lot of their stuff like T-72's and BMP's would be horribly unsafe.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >a lot of their stuff like T-72's and BMP's would be horribly unsafe.
      That's the main issue. Their IFV/APCs are tin cans, compared to the current Western stuff.
      And the classic T-series tanks have the fundamental flaw of being designed around the carousel, which is their single greatest weakness and survivability threat.
      Of course, you could theoretically rip it out, and replace it with a cassette autoloader in the turret, but: a) that would be an expensive undertaking; b) you'd just end up with a shittier version of a Leclerc.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Maybe they could turn them into remotelly controlled drone "infantry tanks", but the expense probably isn't worth it over the surplus Abrams they may get in the future.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >fundamental flaw of being designed around the carousel, which is their single greatest weakness and survivability threat
        It's more survivability than a 'weakness'. A hit that detonates the carousel in a T-72 would be a tank kill regardless, it's just that in the T-72 it also vapourises the crew.

        Crew survivability is a problem in non-autoloading Soviet tanks as well though, the T-62 is so cramped there's no getting out in the event of a penetrating hit.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Do Chinese tanks use the same carousel design?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Chinese tanks use the same carousel design AND the same shitty maintenance practices even in tanks they send to competitions.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why the fuck would you want to subject NATO forces to the horrors of the Russian Space Program? The best solution is to sell them to museums, and when that market is saturated then scrap them for raw materials. We should be de-Warsaw-ifying Eastern Europe's militaries, not forcing several decades more of non-standard equipment on them that just results in a painful transition later on right when they need NATO gear.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The best solution is to sell them to museums, and when that market is saturated then scrap them for raw materials.
      Not a good idea. There are plenty of nations in the world that use old Soviet gear that might become NATO aligned and invaded by an anti-NATO neighbour. Ukraine would've been completely screwed right now had Poland and the Czechs scrapped all their Soviet stuff in favour of Bradleys and Leopards.
      Keeping these vehicles in storage for strategic reasons is the right call. You never know when you might need to urgently supply Kazakhstan, India or Vietnam with tanks.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All of it can comply with doctrine. That's one of the strengths of good doctrine, usually, to be as materiel agnostic as possible.

    As others said, the electronics needed to support NATO doctrine can be grafted on. Again this was part of the NATO project itself.

    The only real hang up is probably small arms doctrine which asks for hand portable anti-tank weapons and support fire from integrated armored fighting vehicles. There just isn't enough of that to go around in the Soviet era arsenal, where more of those responsibilities are delegated to the tank corps.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ukraine basically did a desert storm using T-72s and BMPs along with western artillery, mlrs and humvees.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Give all the tanks the same treatment as the T-84-120 Yatagan. Basically a NATO 120mm gun (with a full suite of western optics and FCS) and a redesigned cassette autoloader.
    I've also heard Ukrainian ERA is pretty good. They'll also need an APS, as this war has taught us.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Despite what PrepHole thinks or believe, Western is not always superior to Slavshit equivalents.

    For example, when it comes to main battle tanks, at the moment Australian M1A1 and Sing/Indon Leopard are the bottom of the barrel in the Southeast Asia region. Malaysian PT-91M Pendekar, Viet T-90S, and Thai Oplot/VT-4 are superior to monkey model Abrams without DU armor (same as what Arab cunts like the Saudis, Egypt and Iraq use which have been lost in great numbers) Leopard 2A4 with body kit.

    The Malaysian version of PT-91 are more different than Polish one and have included some pretty extensive upgrade possibly makes it among the most capable T-72 variant available. Instead on using a standard one, they following the Malaysian design by mix and match various East and West equipment like M2HB HMG, Germany tank tracks, Malaysian spectral camouflage system and Polish ERAWA ERA.

    >French SAGEM gyroscoptic SAVAN-15 Fire Control System, similar to that used on the Leclerc
    >EADS 3-axis gun stabilizer coupled with the ability to shoot GL-ATGM
    >Belgian FN Mag + M2 HMG
    >SS1C "Obra" laser warning receiver
    >PM Dezamet 84mm Grenade Launcher
    >Slovakian 2A46MS gun, 20% better accuracy than basic 2A46
    >Malaysian thermal camouflage optronic system

    and last but not least,Malaysia army has integrated network-centric operation via MEASAT 3B communication satellite that have 4x X-band transponder for military usage , so PT-91M have higher situational awareness than Australian M1A1.

    For about half the price of an Abrams those modernized PT-91M is good to at least stand toe to toe with M1A2 SEPv3/Leopard 2A7

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Visual difference between PT-91 and PT-91M showing redesigned turret with ammo bustle and blowoff panel, better ERA and third gen thermal +CITV). Even when compared to base M1A1, Malaysian PT-91 has better transmission and better guns. M1 could fire more powerful APFSDS but PT-91M has more accurate first shot and ability to auto track the target.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Western is not always superior to Slavshit equivalents.
      Yes, it is. This has undeniably been proven over and over again. Slavshit sucks get over it already.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/GRdFqgd.jpg

      Visual difference between PT-91 and PT-91M showing redesigned turret with ammo bustle and blowoff panel, better ERA and third gen thermal +CITV). Even when compared to base M1A1, Malaysian PT-91 has better transmission and better guns. M1 could fire more powerful APFSDS but PT-91M has more accurate first shot and ability to auto track the target.

      Is this the new armatard?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah hes some dude living in some shithole asian country

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/GRdFqgd.jpg

      Visual difference between PT-91 and PT-91M showing redesigned turret with ammo bustle and blowoff panel, better ERA and third gen thermal +CITV). Even when compared to base M1A1, Malaysian PT-91 has better transmission and better guns. M1 could fire more powerful APFSDS but PT-91M has more accurate first shot and ability to auto track the target.

      ATM tentara paling aneh kapal selam tak boleh selam , kapal perang takut air, pesawat pejuang tak boleh terbang, lawak wkwkwk wkwkwkkwkwk

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ukrainians have the skill to upgrade their Soviet tech with Western add-ons. Considering the Russian threat (and how "fair-weather friend" some European countries have been on military help), they're gonna hold onto everything they can.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You could have some really fucking wild ground joint operations and practice exercises with a Red on Blue scenario
    One side turns up with the standard real fucking nato, the other rolls in with the mostly current ex-soviet milsurp that could be expected in 101 shitholes around the world to encounter.

    It'd be lots of fun

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Thicc. Lewd.

    (I think this is the Ukrainian T-84)

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I want to cum all over those ERAs. Ukrainian ERAs unironically makes me hard.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It does need a shower of something wet.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Contrary to what people say, Malaysia bought russian and american aircraft out of necessity, not simply because of shit and giggles. For years malaysia had been denied access to more modern aircraft because the US is playing favorites with singapore, philippines and thailand. At one point they just said "fuck this" and went to the russian instead. America putting both Indonesia and Pakistan under military sanction really spooked Malaysian decisionmaker hence why they're willing to buy russian made equipment which is generally cheaper and russia is willing to accept almost anything as payment.

    The biggest challenge is the difference in operational philosophy between Malaysia and Soviet Union. MiG-29N is basically export variant of MiG-29 with upgraded radar. The Migs had shorter TBO considering how extensive they were used by the RMAF compared to what is expected with aircraft made during soviet union era. The Migs also had shorter range and drop tank had to be installed, which compromised its maneuverability(as designated air superiority aircraft in RMAF) Not only that, the migs also have very limited air to ground capability

    Malaysia tried to address these shortcoming with Su-30MKM. The flankers are better built, have extensive air to ground as well as air to air capability and compatible with RMAF's mostly-western equipments, but that also had its own challenges since it took quite some time until they had the western equipment/russian aircraft integration issue sorted out. Malaysia successfully integrated Russian-Western technology into their SU-30MKM. Malaysian SU-30MKM are the only Sukhoi SU-30 series that capable of using Sidewinder, Paveway and JDAM.

    Til now American suffering loses because Malaysian opened the market gate for Russian and European arms sales on SE Asia and destroying the American arms sales monopoly.

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