Why is no one talking about this? This is happening even with fricking transformers now and is causing fires.
That already happened in the 70s when copper prices skyrocketed and it seems to be happening AGAIN.
Copper getting replaced by cheap Aluminum wire
Not really a big deal as long as it's pigtailed properly
t. live in old apartment building with alu wiring, not a single electrical fire here in 50 years
it was inside a transformer that the "solder joint" failed
It's not uncommon to find aluminum wire in large transformers and industrial welding machines etc
There's nothing inherently wrong with using aluminum wire in a lot of applications; its an economical and useful choice that can be sensibly designed
it was soldered not crimped, and the solder did not hold.
Isn't it supposed to be spot welded?
These.
If anything this would just make people stop hiring dumbfricks.
Which won't happen because people are stupid and like to be cheap and spend more than once until they get a real expert worth their money.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Noalox-Anti-Oxidant-Compound-4-oz-30-026/202276208
This is all you need. Make sure you torque the lugs to spec.
This. The problem with alu is normies diying shit badly
I too saw Mr. Carlson's lab.
It's a non issue, you just have to usually upsize by a little for alu wiring. It's actually preferred for big branch circuits because once you get into the really big feeders for hospitals and warehouses that much copper doesn't make financial sense. It's not a new thing either, copper and alu are used interchangeably in a lot of places, you just gotta use noalox when you bond dissimilar metals with alu. It's not any less safe or more safe, and a lot of the time it's dipshit diy-ers that cause the fires because you're too asinine to hire someone that actually knows what they're doing.
Also line transformers don't usually use solder, it's almost always a physical clamping, pretty much any mv application uses clamping to ensure good contact.
TL:DR sorry your latest copper scrapping didn't go so well, maybe try catalytic converters?
>it's a none issue
>you just have to do this and pay attention to that
That's the whole point.
Aluminum wire is being used out of penny pinching reasoning while morons / people not knowing about the differences work with it exactly like they would with copper wire, causing fires in the worst case.
There's also a ton of """""""coper""""""" wire coming from China that is basically just copper plated aluminum.
>Aluminum wire is being used out of penny pinching reasoning
It's not "penny pinching" to save frickloads of money with zero downsides. That's just engineering.
This is like the morons complaining about PEX being such a problem because of tarded homeowners doing sloppy installs.
No matter what you do, You're not going to "idiot proof" the entire practice of electrical wiring and (in OPs case) electrical appliance manufacture.
Wouldn't copper-plated aluminum actually be alright?
The biggest issue with Al is that the surface oxidizes faster than you can work it so joining wires is a much bigger frick around. Cu will protect the Al from oxidation so you can use traditional splicing methods, while the Al carries the majority of the current.
Of course, you'll have to clearly mark it because an electrician might see it, mistake it for copper and allow it to carry a current higher than its rated for.
actually, depending on the thickness of the copper coating, isn't this the best solution ever? at a high enough voltage/amperage, aren't the vast majority of the conducted electrons occurring in the outer few thousandths of an inch?
i heard that somewhere, but it may only apply to single-metal lines
>The biggest issue with Al is that the surface oxidizes faster than you can work it so joining wires is a much bigger frick around
Not quite. The oxides of aluminum are less conductive (more resistance, more heat at the connection) than pure aluminum. That is not the case with copper.
>aren't the vast majority of the conducted electrons occurring in the outer few thousandths of an inch?
At high frequencies, yes. That's why the steel in copper clad steel in RG-6 cable doesn't matter for the signal.
That's "quite" what I said, dipshit.
>That's "quite" what I said, dipshit.
No, it isn't. It doesn't matter how fast the surface oxidies.
Just saying it to say it - it's immediate with aluminum, 1-2nm basically on contact with oxygen.
I could see it having some really sudden heat issues near its current cap. Still better (or at least not worse) than straight aluminum, just a faster jump in temp. Like anything else, if you use it how the engineers intend it to be used (and like you said, mark it for electricians to know what they're working with), it will remain safe for a long time. In the situation of copper cladded wire, the copper actually does most of the work, the aluminum's almost like a structural, electron-donor heatsink.
that thin layer will be fragile,no? how do u clamp on such wire and not break through copper cladding?
I work in a fricking wire ffactory. The copper side, not aluminum.
I'm thankful for that, bbecause I get less dirty during my shift. The alu guys are always covered in silver flakes.
Business for my side hasn't slowed down at all. I still have to work every fricking saturday. Someone's buying it.
Can you steal some copper wire and post here when you are done? I need some cheap wire.
>Someone's buying it.
me
It's fine, all the high voltage transmission lines are aluminum. I think so are all the output phases of our generators. The main output transformers might be aluminum as well.
>Why is no one talking about this?
Here in Norway we have a huge scandal going. A train tunnel was closed because the cabling was sub standard. There was overheating, cable was under dimensioned and the connectors were badly done. Pictures show it was Al. It was a public project so there is no end to the incompetence.
Its not the aluminum you dingus it was the engineers who fricked up sizing it properly
Absolutely everything that could have gone wrong went really wrong. Since a lot (most?) of these dudes got their jobs because of nepotism and party membership, they will not be fired, sadly.
Oh and I didn't claim it was the Al being teh reason but I pointed out that shoddy work caused overheating. I think some junction boxes got burned.
I'm almost certain it was a frick up by the contractors, not by the engineers. That's how it usually goes.
>not by the engineers
hahahahahahahahahaha
it's like 50/50 out on jobs that I've been on. engineers do some pretty good work mostly but they're human too.
The market has been flooded with cheaply made shit lately because of the supply chain disruptions. The places making good quality transformers are way behind, so companies are buying whatever they can find decent or not. We've had shitloads of transformer failures. Same thing happening with relays and circuit boards.
Thankfully German VDE rules explicitly give a maximal electric resistance per cross section which makes it just impossible to use aluminum since the resistance is that little tad higher than what's allowed.
Aluminum gives you breast cancer
have you tried not licking the wires?
Gang scrap bros, what are we going to sell now?
Aluminum wire has always been a thing, and it always has had different current capacity. Sometimes I'll use aluminum wire, because it's cheaper, but I'll always go a couple sizes larger to compensate.
Is it properly sized to account for the different conductivity? Then who gives a frick.
Is it not? Then blame the moron who designed it. If it's basic b***h 60Hz AC or DC stuff then all it takes is looking at the fricking table.
If it's something with electronics and higher freq stuff then all it takes is looking at a different fricking table.
What's the fricking problem with people today?
aluminum cables are dirt cheap
you only need to increase the size about 50% to get equal specs compared to copper
thin aluminum wires tend to break easily but the big stuff does not have these problems
Here in germany AWG5 (16mm2) is the smallest you can use.
Uncommon in residential but not uncommon for commercial use.
In my part of the country we use AWG 300 (150mm2) for the city grid.
These cables cost about 2€ per foot. Thats literally nothing.
250A fuses are used.
copper demand went up because of electronics, now it's rises again with "green tech" like solar panels, grid batteries and electric cars
at the same time, ore grade steadily decreases over time
copper content in ore these days is around 1%, usually less
we aren't really going to run out, but it lower grade = more expensive to process
you need to dig up more rock - if the copper in ore decreases from 1% to 0.5%, you need to increase the amount of ore mined by 100% - you double the costs, but the production stays the same
aluminum meanwhile is several orders of magnitude more abundant, the ores are typically around 50% Aluminum, so the cost is based almost purely on the price of electricity needed to convert it to metal
And because you can turn electrolysis on and off, you can work with daytime peaks somewhat and use only cheap electricity
It's not ideal from the process engineering perspective, but if your main ingredient comes for free at certain times of the day, you might consider getting into throttleable production.
>tl;dr: more renewables = copper will keep getting even more expensive and aluminum will keep getting cheaper
Is it cheaper just to take all of the jobless people and enslave them to process ore, so we can continue our mindless consooming? It solves both the jobs and shortage problem. It seems to work for China.
>turn electrolysis on and off
Bullshit. The electricity in the potlines is what keeps the cryolite baths molten. You can modulate the potline current a bit, but never shut it off completely.
I mean,I completely agree with you. I was bit too simplistic with the wording - you can't switch it on/off willy nilly from 0 to 100%.
but I'd say there's some wiggle room for day/night cycling in the future once the incentive is there
not really
slaves are incredibly weak
1 manhour outputs like 0.1 kWh in terms of raw power if you were to crush rocks with hammer or something
Aluminum is as reliable as copper when manufactured properly.
Connections need an extra glance since multiple metals but that's really the only difference
I work in a power plant and virtually all the thick wires are aluminum. The "problem" as I know it is dealing with greater thermal expansion/contraction at connections which works terminations loose over time. This is done by doing away with crimps, solder, or screw/clamp terminations. All the connections I see are wire-wire welds or wire-hoop welds.
As other anon mentioned- HV transmission lines are almost universally an aluminum conductor wrapped around steel core (for strength).
Shit works, there's decades of known best-practices for making it work, one just has to follow the instructions. If one can't follow instructions then there's always copper with its associated idiot tax.
>All the connections I see are wire-wire welds or wire-hoop welds.
Around here they use explosive welding. I could see it from my window.
>aren't the vast majority of the conducted electrons occurring in the outer few thousandths of an inch?
You are probably thinking of high frequency currents, where you do get a skin effect.
Everytime I see "copper tinned aluminum wire" I instantly have these thoughts. Like I'm being scammed and it makes me mad.
>Like I'm being scammed
You literally are