Realistically what could China hope to accomplish in an all out non-nuclear direct confrontation with the US? Their Type 99 MBT doesn't look too impressive, I'm not too knowledgeable on modern aircraft so I can't say much about their airforce, as for their navy I notice a good portion of their destroyers are relatively old/obsolete compared to the US's Burkes
Chinese carriers unfit for war
Realistically what could China hope to accomplish in an all out non-nuclear direct confrontation with the US? Their Type 99 MBT doesn't look too impressive, I'm not too knowledgeable on modern aircraft so I can't say much about their airforce, as for their navy I notice a good portion of their destroyers are relatively old/obsolete compared to the US's Burkes
Literally nothing. They can only hope to win in a very lopsided fight.
This would be something like:
1) A blitz invasion of Taiwan that catches the the entire US intelligence apparatus off-guard, while 2) Convincing an ally or at least enemy-of-my-enemy to start shit elsewhere in the world to divide the US logistics behemoth.
1 is almost certainly impossible.
2 would have been more plausible before Russia showed what a paper tiger it is. Maybe the Norks?
Either way, China really doesn't have a chance.
I can't see an invasion of any kind working out, there's no way no one both in and out of China isn't going to notice a massive build up of landing ships as well as the many thousands of personnel needed to take the Taiwanese beaches
>divide the US logistics behemoth
it's actually designed to do this - specifically, fight two large scale wars in two completely different locations distant from the US and win both
well-supplied US mainland forces are considered an additional requirement BEFORE you even talk about the force projection capacity
>designed to do this
No, anon was referencing "two-war planning," a doctrine from the Cold War that held the US armed forces should be capable of fighting two separate ground wars on two separate continents simultaneously. It was axed in 2012 under Panetta, and replaced with a "1.5 wars" doctrine, which states the US armed forces should instead be capable of fighting a ground war on one continent while waging a separate full air campaign elsewhere. It's very well known doctrine, why obfuscate by bringing up a mechanical failure of the world's only mass produced fifth-gen stealth aircraft?
planning is very easy.
Being towed with parking brakes on? I don’t think any are designed for that, anon.
and a single front wheel ctol one at that. probably thought if they can handle being yeeted off of a carrier, they could tow them like that, not knowing the difference between the ctol/stovl and cv ones.
don't tell anyone !!!big secret!!! but there are more people in the US national guard alone than there are in the entire PLAN or PLAAF
some gems in the 2019 National Guard & Reserve Equipment Report:
>over 200 AH-64D
>12 Assault Breacher Vehicle
if you have never seen one, these are probably the most based things to ever be slapped on an Abrams (& fuzed up MICLIC can be used as an anti-armor weapon)
>140+ M2A3, + 400 M2A2s, + 300ish M3A2s
>a metric fuckload of M1A2s (400ish)
>18,000 grenade launchers
>a dozen each of F-18, F-5, etc.
>a couple hundred F-15s & F-16s
>300+ littoral attack boats (this does not count the Coast Guard itself)
>everything in the boneyards (more guns than the entirety of China combined, nearly as many working boats too)
>everything those guardsmen own at home (more guns than the entirety of China combined)
and so, so much more
>how chinese people are living
>mutt mutt mutt
have a nice day or at least go cope in
where you belong, there are plenty of reasons Chinese are fleeing to try to get to America like squatamalans white no American would ever do the same for Shanghai
China: truly the nation of emigrants - get enough money to leave, never return
whoops, I got the wrong retard, I was initially intending to respond to the Rand bait but decided against it because just too mindnumbingly stupid
the latter half of this post is actually directed at
>Either way, China really doesn't have a chance.
The worst part for them is more recent think tank war games have actually ended up with worse results for them. As it stands now it looks like 0% of a successful Taiwan invasion if the U.S. navy is involved. The U.S. would lose ships (depending on the war game that includes 2 carriers or like half the attack sub force), men and planes but the Chinese military would basically be non-existant. Without a functioning military would that embolden neighbors with territorial claims? Probably.
The CCP has enough trouble holding down internal dissent.
I think that the North Korea distraction scenario is very plausible. The CCP may twist Kim's arm into attacking South Korea to try and take US resources away from defending Taiwan. I don't think it would work, but it would certainly make the conflict a lot more complicated.
2) is possible if the US or Israel is dumb enough to directly attack Iran; think Chinese intel/assets guiding accurate Iranian drone and missile fire into the US/coalition forces across the middle east and the Indian ocean.
055 and 052D with YJ-21 that outrange US carriers.
Chinese carriers's role are air cover and intel, not naval strike.
>055 and 052D with YJ-21 that outrange US carriers.
what does this shit even mean?
>hurr these ballistic missiles "outrange" a mobile platform
1. no they don't, pic related is the range of a combat load F-35C, without any extra tanks vs. the (CLAIMED) range of the YF-21 - red is peak range from the 055, blue is F-35C combat range, magenta is JSM range
2. are you retarded? in what universe would carriers even engage 055s or 052D? they are already sunk by subs before one can get anywhere near the US-controlled island chains, let alone in range for a YF-21, you would literally have to already take Taiwan to so much as try to hit a US carrier
I hope your pea-brained assessment and strategic "wit" is exactly what the PLAN is also using because then it'll be a hilarious war
when it matters most. The USN is just a paper tiger.
? Do you contest a single fact he posted. Every one of those ranges is public you wumao gay. Do better.
have a nice day, blown out ape
here's the same thing with LRASM in case you want to cope about JSM
again: this range is stock, full stealth, zero external tank, no refueling F-35Cs straight from the carrier
with external tanks or refueling, total range can easily double the YF-21's
You didn't address him mentioning how PLAN will deal with US subs. Even those bullish on PLAN capabilities admit that the US is far ahead when it comes to sub capability. Has Chinese ASW gotten to the point where it can effectively account for that threat?
>le subs will win the hecking war!
surely this time it will be different.
>This list is incomplete, you can help by expanding it.
Ok real talk, when China either gets BTFO in a war for Taiwan, or the demographic and housing crises simultaneously destroy the country, who will you multipolar world shills shill for? India, Iran? Good luck shilling for literal street shitters and or muzzies lmao
real talk is picrel. industry wins war. garden gnomes (finance) goes to the gas chamber. The US does not produce shit.
No label your hand made mud cup "artisan" and charges 420$ dollars for it to inflate your """industrial""" output does not count.
if the average mutt knew how chinese people are living, it would be a boris yeltin in the grocery store moment.
china has not one, not two, but fucking three alpha+ cities on par with tokyo, paris, singapore, etc.
yanks are completely irrelevant. but politicians need to give them hope. otherwise they'd just overdose on fentanyl and cheeseburgers.
What the fuck does that even mean?
>on par with tokyo, paris, singapore, etc.
How so? In what way?
>if the average mutt knew how chinese people are living, it would be a boris yeltin in the grocery store moment.
Deep frying a live dog in gutter oil for dinner after a 12 hour shift at the forklift accident factory?
not sure, a quick check though tells me that Beijing/Shanghai have GDP's on par with San Francisco. LA/NY/Chicago are all a bit higher.
Shenzhen, Guangzhou and Chongquing wouldn't even be in the top 10 list of US cities by GDP
>if the average mutt knew how chinese people are living, it would be a boris yeltin in the grocery store moment.
Yeah, I know pretty well how you're living, it's all a facade lmao
>if you're poor you're not allowed in the city
>if your vehicle sucks you're not allowed in the city
>you're not allowed to talk about how bad things are
list goes on bugman.
>china has not one, not two, but fucking three alpha+ cities on par with tokyo, paris, singapore, etc.
No you don't, and you act as if Paris is some sort of high bar, hasn't been since the 40's. Your shit infrastructure and shittier QOL means dick.
>yanks are completely irrelevant
Ah yes, so irrelevant they control world wide policies, trade regulations, embargos, etc. shut the fuck up chink lmao
>but politicians need to give them hope. otherwise they'd just overdose on fentanyl and cheeseburgers.
Yeah, we'd overdoes on readily available palatable food and drugs, both things you can't get over there. Best you could hope for is gutter oil slatered bat meat stew and some acupuncture from an ancient chinese practitioners lol
>Your shit infrastructure and shittier QOL means dick.
Where are your functional public transit systems or high speed bullet trains? Remind me how California's high speed rail is going.
>wanting nogs to be able to move around freely
Slant you must understand that essentially all US domestic politics is based on race, especially how to quarantine nogs and Hispanics from society. Why would white men, who are the only people paying a net positive tax, want to allocate money to things which will not benefit them?
>if the average mutt knew how chinese people are living, it would be a boris yeltin in the grocery store moment
No, it would be a Boris Yeltsin in the Volga moment.
>le garden gnomes.
I really don't know why you chinks think mentioning le juice at every single opportunity makes people favorably to you.
That’s the Sovereign Nation of Taiwan
>The US does not produce shit
Why did you post an image about robot density when most of their robots are sourced from Switzerland and Japan.
They don't have a monopoly on industrial robots, they aren't even at the forefront of the industry.
>most of their robots are sourced from Switzerland and Japan.
you made the classic mistake of correlation import volume with total volume.
Just like China importing "a lot" of Austrian does not mean they relies on Austrian coal. The total import of Austrian coal is a rounding error compared to their total domestic output.
The Japs and Swiss don't have the capacity to support Chinese robotic growth.
just do the simple math of how many they imported how many were needed to increases per capita density by 70+ in a single year.
But I guess you are too retarded to do that simple calculation kek.
Hapanda is it a shame you cannot defend the flower of Chinese womanhood...from this.
>Just like China importing "a lot" of Austrian does not mean they relies on Austrian coal
You mean Australian coal and yes it does make them dependent on it. The Chinese are also dependent on Australian iron ore and lithium too. No amount of seething can change this fact
Explain why Australia is selling them i yuan instead of usd?
Explain why china keeps buying Australian resources if it isn't dependent on them
Why do you buy industrial parts and equipment from China if you are not dependent on them?
Because it is cheaper? And nobody buys important things from China, just tat.
>Industrial machinery and parts
Your factories are made in China
What industrial machinery specifically?
What parts specifically?
Can you give some examples?
I worked in an sheet metal factory, most of our folder, cutter and cnc are Chinese made.
Retard like you need to wake up
You will find that, yes. China does produce such machines, but if you want something decent and something that will last, you will buy European.
Nope, you keep a few euro machine for niche uses, the bulk of our factory are Chinese machines. We supply parts to Pratt and Whitney.
I work in a sheet metal factory too, we sourced our industrial robotics from Germany, our industrial shears from Sweden, and our CNC press brakes are Japanese.
garbage tier equipment. Hass, Okuma, Mazak, etc all US, Japan, or Euro made
>he doesn't know about US sub history
we aren't the nazis, dumb fag
>le subs will win the hecking war!
>surely this time it will be different.
Different? They played a key role in winning the last naval war.
>Xinhua News Agency has emphatically assured us that our glorious navy is too strong to be in any danger from inferior US submarines
>surely there is no possibility they could ever be wrong about this
>surely there is no possibility they would deliberately make boasts that they well know are contrary to the actual truth
>surely there is no possible reason or ulterior motive they could have for doing this
>>le subs will win the hecking war
Yes. Le Japanese subs dealt a huge blow to the American Pacific fleet. Le subs were terrorizing Britain until Le American subs showed up and destroyed hundreds of Le German subs. Then Le American subs destroyed hundreds of Japanese vessels essentially resulting in Japanese forces in Indochina being cut off from the mainland and leaving Japan in a state of starvation that would have killed millions if they had not surrendered and received humanitarian aid with safety underwritten by le American subs and surface vessels.
Now Japan and the USA have many le extremely advanced subs which are a decisive factor in any future conflicts in the Pacific, and that's before we get into the fact that US/UK Trident is the most potent nuclear delivery system on earth.
>the bugman chink shill is back at it again with cherrypicked images
please incite a war, we'll show you just how paper we are
The Luftwaffe also managed to fly out germans from Sudan, however I wouldnt even remotely consider them to be superior to the USAF
And SM-2s intercept the YJs like they would any other flying object bigger then a football
China has far more missiles than the US has interceptors and their stockpiles are increasing YoY. Saturation of BMD is still a significant problem for USN and bases in the area. Between the US and China, who would you bet on having the stronger manufacturing capability within this area?
Well, we must consider. Let's take China's missiles as credible- let's assume the SAR wake tracking works, the satellites can somehow transmit this to China's anti-ship missiles enough to let their onboard guidance take over or provide terminal guidance all the way down. Let's take their production existing inventory numbers at face value.
We must also take at face value America's existing interceptors and the fact that they have recently been proven reliable against hypersonic threats that slow during the terminal phase. We must consider America's emerging DEW point defense programs. We must account for their existing large interceptor stocks and active efforts to build up their manufacturing base in the short term- over the next two to six years. We must account for their allies and their interceptor developments that are already seeing collaboration, like Japan's new interdiction railgun.
Overall it seems reasonable to contend that China's antiship missile are another potentially lethal threat that can nonetheless be degraded and countered, and that statements like
's "they could sink every carrier in the indopacific" is laughably ridiculous. I think that America's response to Taiwan is initially supported by their tanker fleet out of caution until either the invasion necessitates shorter supply lines or the launch sites are degraded enough to move the carrier closer.
Oh no, America has lost face. And yet America is also the current global hegemon, America operates the world's largest blue water navy, America operates the most and largest foreign military bases, and America has spent the last two decades polishing its logistics by supporting an occupation in a landlocked country on a different continent. Of course no country is infallible, but let's not pretend America's claims are unfounded or unreasonable.
polished logistic by letting female white citizens enriched in Sudan (because face it, the only reason to go to Sudan is for BBC tourism) while the brown water navy of China evacuated all of its citizen within 24hr notice.
implessive logistic indeed.
you have autism, have a nice day 4chanfag
Again, a spiteful incident brought up in an inflammatory way that does nothing to touch on any actual discussion of lifting ability or operational capacity. America loses face, but you do not contest their global presence. An example of a good criticism would be bringing up tonnage of supplies and miles it was moved per annum, and pointing out that the closest ports in the region of Taiwan may be effectively degraded.
>a spiteful incident
it isn't even an incident, the retard is trying to compare evacuating less than a thousand Chinese agents (Belt & Road sponsored) from Sudan, to America apparently owing every dual citizen voluntarily in Sudan a free ride back to the US
the obsession with hwite women and BBC (even though nearly all of that 16,000 "left behind" is obviously black/brown in the first place) is part and parcel of the chink brain rot
you cannot provoke a person so inchoate to fact into bothering with them when the goal is disruption and bait
cope. The USN could not evacuate a single - one - uno- bbc bride.
Why no picrel anon?
Could it be that
is correct and you're a lying, bbc obsessed gay?
Chang, just can't help himself can he?
"BBC Tourism" what the fuck are these chinks watching on porn sites now?
US missiles & interceptors are scattered around the world. China can bring force to bear 100% of their military might within their own backyard.
The US would have to essentially divest their global commitments towards the pacific if they want to make their total count actually usable due to the giant logistical burden that is the tyranny of distance otherwise, which means
1) increased tensions in the region forcing china to build up their arms at a greater pace, and
2) less influence among key regions like Europe, meaning a severe weakening of US hegemony.
Both of those are bad for very obvious reasons.
I think your point is valid but I raise you a more pressing concern- even America thinks its local bases are going to get creamed. The (fairly ominous) projections (that take Chinese claims at face value) aren't quite a flattening, but it's not good. America doesn't want to concentrate its stocks in the region anyway, it wants them on its boats. It is entirely feasible to keep the boats well-stocked without increasing tensions or reducing American influence in the EU.
Ultimately I think you have a good point, but a more pressing concern (the impact of a Chinese first strike) has already forced the US to optimize for a smaller number of initial interceptors and reliance on its global network over the duration of the conflict.
US Navy better hope they can match shipyard output to meet its needs within the next decade. Lord knows China's laying down hulls like it's nothing.
I think that Navy procurement is in need of crucial reform, but the GAO caught and addressed some recent potential fiascos before they snowballed and overall I'm confident. However, I think any discussion of shipbuilding needs to be put in the context of attrition and how that is going to be experienced. China's ships are surface combatants first and parts of an AD network secondarily. China needs a lot of them to have its naval weapons deployed appropriately, and they are directly exposed every time they engage. They're provided with aerial cover by the J-20 and its massive A2A missiles that outrange their counterparts. American surface vessels exist to facilitate carriers, and so they are AD lynchpins primarily and surface combatants second. The majority of America's naval striking and operations is done by its naval aviation arm, not its ships. American surface vessels provide air cover for their striking arm's refueling and deployment, but exposing them during an attack is both unnecessary and generally undesirable.
So we see the difference; Chinese ships are more exposed to attrition than American ships as a matter of doctrine on each side. Should American shipbuilding be improved, and is Chinese shipbuilding a benefit to their military? Yes on both counts. But China's navy needs shipbuilding a whole lot worse than America does.
>Lord knows China's laying down hulls like it's nothing.
at a rate equivalent or slower than US production, when you do the math and account for hull size
I bet you think that image is impressive, but it's one of two total ports producing 055s, and those ships were in production for 3 and 4 years respectively
between 2014 and today, China has launched 8 055s, at a cadence of ~0.89/year = 88,000 tons
between 2012 and today, China has launched 25 type-052s, at a cadence of ~2.27/year = 187,500
total 275,000 tons
the US has in that time launched 10 Burkes (97,000 tons), 2 Zumwalts (31,800 tons), 23 LCS (this omits decommissioned, ~80,000 tons), a dozenish spooky ghost USV (Overlord/sea hunter/etc. ~6500 tons) and 1 LHA (44,900 tons)
total 260,000 tons
you really really don't want to compare the nuclear submarine and nuclear supercarrier tonnage for the time same period, anon
China isn't doing all this work to pass the US - it's doing it to barely keep up, in a few very limited areas the US cares less about now no less, and spoiler alert: the US has more launches planned through the late 2020s and the 2030s than China does, because China has the advantage of playing budgetary "catch up" and not having to pay for ships they already have underway
>3rd Zumwalt, DDG(x), 13 Burkes under construction + 7 more planned minimum, more LHAs, etc.
>the entire indev USV fleet that is currently where a shitload of the Navy's budget is going (due mid 2030s)
all for China's... nothing lmao, just 8 more 055s and a few more 052Ds and that's it
have a nice day retard, no one cares what you think
The catch up bit is pretty widespread i'd say, the way people talk you'd think China has narrowed the GDP gap with the US to an insane degree over the last decade. In reality the GDP gap has only narrowed by 1-2 trillion since 2008
if you include the LCS and LHA tonnage for the USN, then you gotta add the frigate, corvette and LHA tonnage for the PLAN as well
60% of tonnage of all warships lauched in the world in the last 60yr had been PLAN.
I bet half of that is fishing boats
Holy cope, mutts are so fucked
>doesn’t refute claim
>generic insult and random picture of boat
And a Ching Chong to you too ma’am
That "boat" is newer, more capable, and more technologically advanced than flight III Burkes. And they're being produced at scale.
You avoided my question again
There was no question, and either way I frankly don't care.
But it's hilarious to call 055 a random boat when it's frankly better than any comparable ship the USN has to offer. Keep in mind that DDG(X) is more than a decade away.
I mean when you say shit like this do you ever expect to be taken seriously?
Show me a US warship with dual band AESA radar
That's what I thought. USN is outdated
>US warship with dual band AESA radar
First link doesn't work
Second link show a radar that's never implemented.
Mutt are pathetic.
I asked for SHIPs with dual band AESA
I can’t help you can’t into the internet, or read considering they’re being upgraded now chang
So, you admitted the USA got no ship with dual band AESA
BTW, what’s "dual band AESA"?
ASEA radar that functions on two different bands. The ones on 055 and 052d are C/S bands
No because that was from 2020
>chink han mutt calling anybody else a mutt
>055 a random boat when it's frankly better than any comparable ship the USN
Tike vs 055 would be hilarious. We should convince the Navy and PLAN to do it off Hawaii for Pay Per View.
Burkes are substantially more advanced and massively better-built and resistant to damage. The 052Ds and 055s have huge corners cut to achieve that build speed. Also, China’s single naval shipbuilding company was recently reported to have major corruption (and violations of "Party Discipline") which the report goes on to state does impact the quality of the ships.
Really, may we see it being more capable and advanced?
>when it was already included in the statistic
>trying to pretend that chink fishing boats and frigates are comparable to even LCS
do you REALLY want to add US Coast Guard's small/medium tonnage in the same period? how about support vessels? because much like how I gave China a crutch by ignoring submarines + carriers, that's a terrible idea, cutters alone are 20k tons extra
Lol. Your navy is outdated. Again
have a nice day gay, try moving the goalposts again when you are mature enough to even know what game is being played
I like these notional, aspirational pictures of weapon systems which don’t exist in China. There’s two missiles supposedly launched by those VLS: the YJ-18A (copy of 3M-54 Klub) and the HHQ-9 (copy of S-300). That’s how underwhelming these ships are in terms of actual capability.
That must be fun in high seastates. Looks more like the Polar Star than a Ticonderoga.
Define fishing boat dumbass
By comparison, the US launched 66.
Going by tonnage, the margin is narrower and China leads by about 25%. However, not all of the built tonnage is going to the Pacific fleet.
Assuming that 60% of US construction is going to the Pacific, China has outbuilt the Pacific fleet 2:1 in tonnage.
Now show existing tonnage, since the USN has to pay to keep their existing boats afloat unlike the chinks who're pretty much starting from a clean slate outside of a small brown water navy.
It's also worth noting that China has recently completed massive expansions of several major shipyards, and they're also building about half the world's merchant hulls as well. The point is that their shipyards are in much the same position now as the US shipyards of 1942. Well laid out, plenty of space, they can pump a lot of ships out very quickly compared to the US. In a Taiwan scenario, that's a major advantage. They're much closer to home, so will arguably be able to return more damaged ships to a fight than the US, which has to send ships all the way back to Pearl Harbor. Anything sitting in harbor in Guam is going to be begging for one of China's conventional ballistic missiles. This also complicates resupply, because currently the US doesn't have a way to reload VLS tubes at sea. Gilday is also saying the US need's to slow down its construction because he doesn't believe the shipyards can manage to build 3 Burkes a year.
Just ballparking because I don't feel like going through and adding up the tonnage for all the ships in the Pacific fleet, about 2.7 million tons to around 2.2-2.3 million tons for China. The US is down an LHD because for some reason nobody in the government thinks things like fireboats are necessary any more, to say nothing of fleet tugs and other auxiliaries.
This. Shipbuilding capability today is essentially a reverse pacific war where the USN is IJN, and PLAN is WW2-era USN. Most on this board probably don't even realize that Dalian alone outputs more than every US shipyard combined-and that's one single shipyard out of about a dozen shipyards that China has, that the US has no good comparable answer to.
>This. Shipbuilding capability today is essentially a reverse pacific war where the USN is IJN, and PLAN is WW2-era USN. Most on this board probably don't even realize that Dalian alone outputs more than every US shipyard combined-and that's one single shipyard out of about a dozen shipyards that China has, that the US has no good comparable answer to.
The US has no answer to fucking anything anymore
-no hypersonics, no HGV, not even close, 10 years out:
>"lol those are a meme! we dont need em, oh and dont worry sweaty, we can intercept them too m'kay!"
-China is the largest xxxx builder on earth, by a mile
>"lol meme, we dont need ships, you see USA is the #1 military in the world, and we'll just sail a carrier group on your ass! and if you resist, we will nuclear first-strike you! oh and if u use conventional, totally 'legal-by-my-own-rules- hypersonics, ill just consider it tantamount to a nuclear-strike, and ill nuke you first!"
and on and on and on
the death rattle of America is the most pathetic,
weasel, bitch assery ever. America is speed-running utter collapse at Record-Attempt pace
Let's not go full doomer here. I don't think hypersonics are a silver bullet. What the US has today can intercept them. The core issues are geographical and logistical. Not much we can do about geography other than build up our partners against China and keep them working and talking together. Without them, China has guaranteed local superiority on the onset of war before ships from Hawaii and the West Coast can reach the theatre. Much the same situation as the Philippines in 1941-2.
Logistical issues can be solved, but that requires bipartisan Congressional support and for navy and DOTMARAD leadership to do their fucking jobs. Right now at least, there are congresscritters in both parties calling Gilday on his bullshit and pushing for more construction, so there is that, but it alone isn't enough to reverse the GWOT starving the navy of its budget. For DOTMARAD, they basically haven't done their jobs for about 2 decades now. No new data on shipyard capacity and issues, miniscule subsidies for shipyards, and the American merchant marine and shipbuilding industry has atrophied to almost nothing. China has 47% market share in the commercial sector because they pump billions of subsidies into their shipyards, and their RO-RO car carriers for example are designed to pull double duty to transport PLA vehicles. Their maritime militia also serves as a training pipeline for junior officers to get command experience and sea time without the risk of being relieved if they run aground. An older example, Japan's tanker fleet at the onset of WWII was the envy of the maritime powers because the Japanese government subsidized faster tankers in both construction and operating costs, to ensure they'd have fast oilers capable of supporting their navy in wartime. You don't get the infrastructure and merchant hulls that support the battlefleet for free. You gotta spend money on that shit.
I hope you government gays die screaming
" I " dont have any enemies
China is not "my enemy"
Russia is not "My enemy"
I am at peace with the world
you people make me sick to my stomach, and the torment your souls will receive in hell isnt fitting enough of punishment
Lol cope thirdie Chinks can brag when they learn to blue ocean, and when they come out to play the subs will give them a treat. You will never be a world power and no one gives a shit about your opinion which is why you spam bullshit on fucking PrepHole lmao. Your life could be described as pathetic, but to call it life would be overly generous
>China is not "my enemy" Russia is not "My enemy"
The average Russian or Chinese person hates your guts. You're a fool if you think otherwise.
"He's not MY enemy, just the enemy of the poor fucks who actually sign up for the military"
garden gnomes are my enemy and should all be killed.
Darkies are my prey and should all be killed.
Chinks are all my enemy and should all be killed.
Russians are like pathetic drunk uncles to stupid to know when to put down the bottle they are neither prey nor a credible threat.
>Russians are like pathetic drunk uncles to stupid to know when to put down the bottle they are neither prey nor a credible threat.
They’ve had enough chances, they can’t act civilized, they go too
>don't think hypersonics are a silver bullet
It is when your enemy can out build you. Example: From what I read, PLAN assumes it takes 3-4 SM6/3 to intercept a DF-21. DF21 cost around 10Mil while SM cost 5mil. Attrition only is gonna fuck you up.
>vs 6 so obsolete they are essentially unusable
Yeah attritional warfare requires you to inflict losses on the enemy, how exactly does China plan to do this. In a total conventional war the US would destroy China's satellite network, and the US puts a hundred times as much mass into LEO as China does each year and has more anti-satellite capable missiles. And lets assume China also destroyed the US satellite systems and US for some reason could not restore them. Now the Carriers are essentially immune to observation due to their massive air wings which sweep away any Chink scouting efforts. That along with anti-sub warfare is in fact the main mission of a carrier these days rather than acting as a strike package. The PLA's only real viability comes during the very opening of a war or if the warfare is highly restricted, but the latter eliminates a first strike which would be is most effective strategy. If they sit around trying to get the US to commit to something they will simply be picked apart by aircraft and submarines which they cannot interdict. They could hold the line indefinitely if they don't suffer attacks on their infrastructure. And that is without the war arising from some act by China the manages to alienate the entire region.
China is focusing almost entirely on its navy which gives it a large force of second rate assets which are a credible threat. It's aircraft are substandard and ground forces outright pathetic.
The US engages in the least trade per capita and as a percentage of GDP of any nation in the world and most of that is with Mexico, then Canada taking up another quarter, then everybody else. The entire merchant marine is essentially just tankers and barges because they utilize almost nothing else. China focuses almost entirely on large cargo hulls with a few smaller hulls made to order, because the former facilitates what their entire economy is based on so they might as well make some as well.
It’s like they looked at the US’s naval dominance, thought “it’s all about numbers” while ignoring everything else, and just ran with it. Fuck me what is it with the east and just thinking big number equal better?
Most of USN ships are outdated compared to PLAN. You still mostly use tge old PESA radar while Chinese ships has ASEA as standard
Oh god again with the radar, all you talk about is radar
Tell them to get you a new talking point
>In a total conventional war the US would destroy China's satellite network
The entire USN would be wiped out before that happens. Sat is just part of China's killnet, shoting them down won't stop ASBMs.
Also, both China and US will replace its sat at they get shot down.
>It's aircraft are substandard.
Still thinking that in 2023? F35 encountered J20 twice and lost both times
Oh man what a fantasy world you live in
In any war that satellites become destroyed, the Earth becomes a prison for thousands of years re: space junk
Room temp iq
You retarded gays watch too much youtube, also I have a simple solution to space junk. Nuclear pulse propulsion, 2 million ton battlewagon to orbit with 5 feet of armor, suddenly loose screws in orbit don't mean shit anymore. Look we are going to fight wars in space, shit is going to get fucked up but luckily we already have a means to much massive amounts of mass into orbit and make the issue irrelevant because we'd have enough volume and mass transport capacity to armor space assets against impacts.
I despise chicken little bullshit because it can almost always be solved simply if not easily. And usually the only counter to the solution is some faggy emotionalist humanitarian argument. Lets say global warming even if not over-hyped bullshit if you are a powerful nation you could just invade and exterminate the populations of other nations to increase your resource base and thus have plenty of land which will be viable no matter what. But can't do that because we don't like murdering people. Eat shit you pussies.
Amazing you managed to be even stupider than him
I don't know what graph you're looking at, but the US merchant marine fleet primarily works inland waterways and between the US and it's island territories. It generally isn't used for international shipping because companies prefer to save a nickel and use foreign-flagged ships. Per the Bureau of Transporation statistics, from 2016-2021, China, Mexico, and Canada have all been pretty close in terms of trade value with the US. China was our biggest trading partner by value in those years, except for 2019 and 2021. In 2021, US did about 50% more international trade with Asia as a whole than it did with Mexico and Canada put together. I guarantee you all of the 1 trillion~ USD of trade carried by sea between us and Asia was carried in foreign hulls.
That's what the issue comes down to. China supplies around 40% of the world's merchant ships, with Japan and South Korea making up the vast majority of the remainder. If China goes for Taiwan, that threatens one of the biggest sea lanes in the world and turns the region where nearly all commercial shipping comes from into a battleground. Around 30% of the world's shipping by tonnage has their companies based in countries in that region (COSCO, ONE, HMM, etc). That's a major interruption to US and global international trade, and it'll make the shipping issues of 2020 and 2021 look like a picnic. It also means that the USA's international seaborne trade, which dwarfs all other modes by weight moved, is at the mercy of foreign shipping companies. If they don't want to sail, we can't import shit we need or export shit for cash.
You misunderstand what a silver bullet is. In this case, if you're having to rely on sheer weight of numbers/running your enemy out of missiles to get hits, that's not a silver bullet. Hypersonics don't magically make USN warships more vulnerable in the Far East than they'd be to conventional AShMs, SRBMs, and IRBMs.
China has more than just Dong Fengs to throw at the Pacific Fleet, and more ways to get their dongs on target than just satellites. If China kicks this off, they will have a lot more assets in the area than the US in the short-term while the US moves ships from the west coast and other commands. We can't keep ships forward-deployed forever. Hasn't stopped the navy from trying, and the end result has been just running our crews ragged and constantly deferring maintenance on our major combatants for no tangible gain. So even if everyone in the fleet does their job perfectly, and every US missile and torpedo finds its mark, we're still going to be losing ships and people because they can throw enough shit at us to run our ships out of ammunition.
When it cost you 2-3 time more in interceptor than to them of missiles, it is a silver bullet
I'm begging you with tears in my eyes, look up the definition. A silver bullet is a wunderwaffe. If the hypersonic can still be intercepted without much issue by the USN, it is not wunderwaffe. It is not your magical problem solver. It does not change the threat environment for the USN. China throwing shitloads of cheap Tomahawks, as a hypothetical alternative, would have the same effect of eventually getting a missile through US defenses and inflict losses.
Except tomahawk are very easy to shot down with regular AA missiles. You gonna have a hard time shooting down a network of 40 YJ21, you may not even have enough SM-6 in your VLS to shot them all down.
The other anon is right; that's just a different take on trying to defeat an air defense network by saturating it. Saturating specific and less common interceptors maybe, depending on what actually ends up being effective, but still a saturation attack. Which certainly isn't a silver bullet, which by definition is "an infallible means of attack or defense." The whole point of a saturation attack is that each individual component is VERY fallible, but victory is achieved en masse.
>Except tomahawk are very easy to shot down with regular AA missiles
This doesn't matter when you can shoot 5 tomahawks for the price of one DF-21. Assuming 2m for a Tomahawk and 10m for a DF-21, it takes minimum 5 SMs to kill the 5 tomahawks, versus 2 at best case scenario and 3-4 per your PLAN claim to stop a DF-21
. In this vacuum hypothetical, Tomahawk salvos would exhaust the US fleet's missile defense faster for the same cost.
>nything sitting in harbor in Guam is going to be begging for one of China's conventional ballistic missiles.
no, everything in Guam is gunna get this
the literal "guam killer" in Chinese mil-parlance
China will utterly devastate guam, which ~~*coincidentally*~~ is the most import feature of the current US-military budget, receiving the most $$$
makes you think...
all these boats are waiting years for crews
and even when they have crews, their usage is so little as to be laughable
when have you seen them in foreign waters?
they just rust gently by the pier, someone having made the money making them
>when have you seen them in foreign waters?
Ask retired USN captain James E. Fanell, who had this to say a few years ago:
>In June 2018, I stood aboard the fantail of the PLA Navy guided-missile frigate Binzhou in Kiel, Germany. It was never clear to me then at that moment that Beijing has the national will to dominate the seas.
>Binzhou had been at sea for 2 1/2 months, patrolling the waters off of the Gulf of Aden as part of China's anti-piracy naval task force.
>Binzhou stood out with its immaculate appearance. Ship staff, officers and crew exuded confidence and preparedness to get underway, back to sea, where they looked like they belonged.
>This contrasted sharply with my recollections from a 2004 visit aboard the destroyer Luhu in Port Qingdao as well as many subsequent visits aboard Chinese warships over the next 15 years.
>The visit to Binzhou in that foreign port halfway around the world from China crystallized for me that in the short space of a decade and a half, I had witnessed the transformation of the PLA Navy from a timid, near-seas assembly of ships into a global naval force where their ships and crews were as comfortable, competent and capable mariners as were their German, British and American counterparts
I'm glad he got emotional over seeing (1) Chinese crew learn how to operate a ship, but what does it have to do with the practical failures of the PLAN to staff the rest of them?
What makes you assert that they A) have problems with attracting crews, and B) that they aren't already training outside their shores?
>After 20 years of transformation, the PLA Navy operates around the world, from the Baltic to the South Pacific and from the Arctic to the Antarctic.
>China's naval ship building continues unabated in order to support the PLA Navy's expanding set of missions to fulfill the China dream of national rejuvenation and restoration
They sound exceedingly capable to me given the rapid rate of improvement.
See recent pic related showing PLAN evacuating civilians from Sudan to Saudi Arabia. Big red text across the 052DL essentially saying that China has sent this warship to take everyone home. All within days' of response of rapid deployment and evacuation.
The US, on the otherhand, spent 2 weeks until they finally decided to send an aging ship to evacuate American citizens, and within those two weeks Jake Sullivan had stated 'we didn't do it in Libya' to justify not sending ships to rescue American civilians. Until they had to backpedal that statement because China was making them look bad on the international stage.
>problem with attracting crews
On the one hand China does have more than 4 times the US population
On the other hand the average Chinese person is older than the average American at this point
On the first hand they have a fuck ton of teens/Young adults they are sending out to the countryside to make their unemployment statistics look better
On the second hand absorbing that many people into military training would absolutely show up in even the massaged reported financials because that's a FUCKLOAD of logistics just to keep them fed and housed on the governments dollar while they are training.
>Binzhou stood out with its immaculate appearance. Ship staff, officers and crew exuded confidence and preparedness to get underway, back to sea, where they looked like they belonged.
Wow, China is doing propaganda on boats now!
>a more pressing concern (the impact of a Chinese first strike)
This is how you piss off the American public and get Pearl Harbour 2.0. Bonus points if the chinks (figuratively) nuke Okinawa and get the Japanese involved.
The Japanese are looking for ANY reason to bring the old flag back. If even a single chink missile lands on Japanese ground, it's time.
Please do, the Chinese are itching for an excuse to exterminate all japs.
Abe was literally killed by his fellow minister for being too hawking on China
I'd like to see you try, chingchong.
Wumao, what nobody is telling you is that notice will be given that submarines of 3 navies will start sinking ships carrying Chinese imports.
Most of your leaders know this.
The US has lots of influence in Europe, not because they have military there, because Europe has a very good trade relationship with the US. Europe, acting in unison also has significant impact on the US. But neither party is willing to wield this influence to the detriment of the other, because mutually beneficial trade is more effective.
And once Russia taps out, there is no more need for more than a token force in Europe. Who's going to attack NATO? The potato Colonel himself with his bioengineered army of Steven Seagal clones infused with carrot DNA?
>Realistically what could China hope to accomplish in an all out non-nuclear direct confrontation with the US?
they could sink every carrier in the indopacific within 12 minutes.'s "they could sink every carrier in the indopacific" is laughably ridiculous.
are you not aware of the df-21 hypersonic glide vehicle?
there is no defense for them, except maybe killing their ISR satelites, which you cant do in 12mins.
I am aware of the DF-21 hypersonic glide vehicle, my post accounts for them based off of existing and emerging technologies on both sides of the conflict. The DF-21 fundamentally must slow for either maneuvering or guidance in its terminal phase because of the design properties we can verifiably see. Because of this, even assuming Chinese claims regarding their killchain are accurate it is still a weapon that has already proven vulnerable to interception. It is not accurate to say that there is no defense for them, in fact intercepting an incoming hypersonic glide vehicle is likely a much more feasible strategy than degrading an ISR constellation is. It is a credible threat that nonetheless can be degraded and operated around.
the intel leaks say that the df-27 has "a high probability of penetrating U.S. BMD"
if you, and cocksuckers like you, do not correct your pride induced gayry, the US will be fucked.
i will not help you.
when the war starts, i am simply going to laugh.
because i refuse to spend my flesh for a country that is willfully, intransigently incapable of recognizing threats, and correcting for them.
Pride induced gayry? Incapable of correcting for them? Did you not read the rest of my post? The bit where I point out the DF-27 absolutely can smoke a carrier and it's impossible to deny its targeting? The bits where I specifically bring up a variety of ongoing American and allied efforts to bring their interception efforts up to snuff to handle the new threat? How about where I explicitly describe China's antiship hypersonics as a "lethal threat that can be degraded?" Saying that Chinese missiles are a deadly threat that can be protected against with proper preparation is objectively true, not prideful and complacent gayry.
and you are going to degrade china's kill chain in 12 minutes?
you know what i think?
i think you are compromised by moron economic interests.
we will see how much your pile of moron money is worth when your face is being burned off by moron WP.
you will have earned every single second of that agony.
and i will laugh.
Are you going to argue against any of his points or just sputter more inarticulate seething?
>and you are going to degrade china's kill chain in 12 minutes?
and are you going to attack the USN first? please do
you don't need to ask. When they are ready to announce their invasion of Taiwan, there are 2 only scenarios:
-there is no US asset within 2000 miles of Chinese coast
-decapitation strike of all US assets within 2000 miles of Chinese coast.
they are not gonna sit around and let the US build up force and stage a response.
Glide vehicles lose energy when they avoid air defence, if it has to go past air defence its range is going to be a lower than its wiki range.
Well, no, I've never proposed degrading China's kill chain in 12 minutes. Interception of the weapon wouldn't be done by degrading the killchain, it would be done by forcing any weapons platforms to fire at any vessels through an air defense network. This air defense network has already proven it has elements capable of intercepting threats of the same kind as China's anti-ship ballistic missiles, and will be composed of a variety of existing and emerging tools all focused on doing the same thing. Degrading the killchain would occur as a larger part of an effort to shorten pro-Taiwan supply lines, and I think would most effectively be done by attempting to deny China as many coastal launch sites as possible, because China's long range anti-ship missiles are roadmobile but require prepared launch positions.
What's it's range while penetrating missile defence? Every time a glide vehicle evades, it loses energy so it's range under those circumstances would be less than it's maximum range.
dude you are an inbred why do you speak as if you did not drop out of high school?
>The DF-21 fundamentally must slow for either maneuvering or guidance in its terminal phase because of the design properties we can verifiably see. Because of this, even assuming Chinese claims regarding their killchain are accurate it is still a weapon that has already proven vulnerable to interception.
The HGV intercept will consume at least two standard missiles, and if it is equipped with decoys it will consume at least 2-4 more. So 2-6 standard missiles per HGV interception. That means that the chinks can win a war of missile attrition because they do not only outproduce the US, they also have the benefit of one of their missiles draining multiple US missiles. Even if 100% of the chink HGVs are shot down the sheer numbers they will bring to bear means that front line USN units are going to run out of standard missiles pretty fast. Then its down to slower missiles like ESSM and finally the RAM missile. These are not that hot against a diving HGV coming in at a speed of more than 2000 meters per second. Once the USN is out of defensive missiles, surface ships have to vacate the area.
>The HGV intercept will consume at least two standard missiles, and if it is equipped with decoys it will consume at least 2-4 more. So 2-6 standard missiles per HGV interception
Explain your reasoning
It's a Kuznetov clone with non-functional catapults and "made in China" quality metalwork.
You mean the Pershing II with a different name and worse engineering?
F35 with LRASM will outrange the YJ21, this can extended with refueling
only hope is the chinese detect and intercept the F35
The chinese will rely solely on long ranged missiles and anti-ship stealth drones; despite how shit their stealth tech R&D has been for the past 30 years. Their navy is most likely to be used for power projection and island hopping support operations once the US is incapable of blasting hundreds of Made In China tier missiles out of the air every week.
Even then the Chinese wouldn't be capable of countering the US's stealth bombers or submarine fleet (As far as we currently know).
They simply hack or have a couple inside agents destroy our electrical grid and watch as millions of Americans die. Sure, millions of Chinese will die too, but they can sustain probably losing 20 people to 1 of ours and still win because of how authoritarian their regime is. The actual people shooting at people part won't matter if we win every single battle. They'll beat America by killing us with hacking, sabotage, and targeted continuous terror attacks until America decides it isn't worth it.
Ah yes, because America has absolutely no way to prevent subterfuge with, famously, zero government resources devoted to stopping such a thing with some kind of glow-in-the-dark three-letter agencies.
>and still win because of how authoritarian their regime is
Being authoritarian doesn't make you more likely to win wars, it makes you much less likely to win them. That's why every authoritarian shitstain of a country buckles when the arsenal of democracy is brought against it and its well ribboned parade ground military is revealed to be incapable of even simple shit due to a lack of articulated decision making and endemic corruption. Don't make us come and free the shit out of you, John from Idaho Oblast.
>They simply hack or have a couple inside agents destroy our electrical grid and watch as millions of Americans die.
I'm pretty sure that would constitute grounds for the United States to respond with nuclear strikes or the destruction of the Three Gorges Dam (arguably worse than a nuclear strike) so it would be completely pointless and only serve to force China into an open war of extermination where its technological weakness could easily prove fatal.
>arguably worse than a nuclear strike
it's not because nuclear strikes will do nothing to a gravity dam.
besides, fentanyl kills about 100k mostly white in their 20s-30s a year - the prime age. That's an ongoing genocide of white americans and the US is powerless against it.
>the us is powerless against it
No, they're not, they simply don't care. Fentanyl can be instantly defeated by opening up testing clinics for all the junkies, but usa simply doesn't want to due to the war on drugs aftermath. You can bet if national command thought fentanyl was impacting the strategic potential of USA they would stop it.
>the destruction of the Three Gorges Dam
some estimates place the destruction of the dam to account for over a 100 million casualties alone. a blockade can add another 50-100 million easily. the CCP will be in a race against time to claim a victory as their civilian population starves.
this can be done 100% conventionally and doesn't account for any potential nuclear exchange which is insane to think about and gives the US and Friends™ more leverage.
>They'll beat America by killing us with hacking, sabotage, and targeted continuous terror attacks until America decides it isn't worth it.
Americans are fucked in the head, but one of their most impressive traits is that they cannot be intimidated into surrendering, it's like a hornets nest. They only surrender when the war is them bullying some country on the other side of the planet for years and the public get fed up, when it's in perceived self defense they all go YEAH KILLEM.
Anon are you retarded or chinese.
Chinks use American hardware. That would spectacularly backfire
>mfw comrade xi’s squad of 1337 chinese hackers hack me to death with their hacker powers
Our infrastructure is and has been vulnerable for years. The Chinks have perputated two massive grid attacks in the last decade alone. There are solutions to this, but it doesn't make us wise to ignore it. Chinese cyber attacks will continue to be a major thorn in the US' side. Of course so will US cyber attacks on the Chinks, but we do them differently
You ever notice when people shill for chinks or say retarded shit like this, they completely remove the Governments agency.
On the cyber front you're right, the US Gov does have agency and is trying to address vulnerabilities and issues. As far as infrastructure goes though, there's so many vulnerabilities that you can't feasibly cover them all. All it takes is a couple dudes with rifles to knock out a power substation. It's not hard to cut water lines, gas lines, and so on either.
Picsrel. Info comes from Tom Shugart, a retired USN submarine commander with a lot of experience with the Indo-Pacific theatre. China has launched around 160 warships 2013-2022.
>By comparison, the US launched 66.
Which are larger and more capable.
>72 Type 056s
These are off-shore patrol vessels and not actually ocean worthy, while they'd be in play in Taiwan they are also a single missile away from instant death given the weak hull and pathetic defensive tools. Z-9 is terrible ASW and I don't think China even acquired the tech for it from Pakistan, since it was their modification.
>24 Type 054s
These are comparable in size to LCS so it'd be fairer to argue about these, but they are heavily limited cope boats. They play an essential ASW role for China (since 056s can barely do it) but would die instantly in combat, which is part of why they are being used for close-coast defense and anti-piracy. The ultimate reason I left them out is because they exist to fill a gap that China has in its coast guard, and to compensate for the heavily outdated fleet China built in the 80s and 90s that is being retired en masse, leading to fleet shrinkage.
Again, why aren't you including the Coast Guard..? Because that would be silly, so don't do the equivalent for China. Same with counting the tonnage of older classes for the US, or capacities China literally doesn't have like nuclear supercarriers, it's just a waste of time to understand what a SEA battle will be like.
052D/055 are basically the only decent destroyer-and-up sized ships China is making, so that's what I compared.
>2 SSBN total, a bunch of diesel shitboats
Retirements outpaced new introductions in Chinese submarines, which is why I ignored it. It's messy and ultimately comes out way in favor of the US, ignoring the stark limitations of the Chinese undersea fleet.
I'm going to assume you just don't know anything about the PLAN, so here's the easy number: what do you get when you cut out these tiny boats & subs, which are not relevant to blue water navy/South-East Asian Sea warfare?
>23 Type 052s
>8 Type 055s
oh wow holy shit, it's what I had before!
>23 Type 052s
PLAN has 35.
You realize China is launching 9 52D in 2023 alone right? Those ship are more capable in term of sensors and weapons than anything the USN currently have.
Let's not even talk about 055, you have to wait for the ddgx for anything comparable
>PLAN has 35.
We're only talking about new ships launched from 2013 on you inbred retard.
The US has an obvious and well understood advantage in terms of existing capacity, so the mainlander cope is to discuss only new ships.
Given your utter inability to read or comprehend basic ideas I have edited the graphic for you out of the one I was responding to with language you will understand.
I am bot going to address the rest of your post, because this is PrepHole, not personal therapy. Consult a nearby psychiatrist (if you can afford one).
>I am bo
You are a CIA bot?
You are a stupid gay and I knew you would respond to that instead of anything else in the post, given how utterly humiliating your position is. have a nice day.
>understood advantage in terms of existing capacity, so the mainlander cope is to discuss only new ships
Because your existing ship are shitting outdated husk from the 80s. No ASEA radar, outdated network, outdated missiles.
055 >>> Tico
052D >> Burke I and II
2/3 your shit are not even combat ready because your ship yard can't maintain them. US have more ships on paper, but China has more ships available in a war.
Again, seek therapy. Your abject delusions have nothing to do with the simple accounting that shows my initial post was right, and that the other anon who attempted to correct me was stupid for doing so without reading the full thread.
Which one is your original post bot?
Also, nuclear carrier and sub doesn't matter since the battle happens in the West Pacific. Non-Nuclear Ships need less maintenance so that's actually an advantage to the Chinese. Diesel sub are quieter than nuclear sub, so that's another advantage to the Chinese.
You are delusional, it you think USN has any chance against the PLAN
You are too illiterate & ignorant to follow the thread and should not be posting at all. Please lurk for at least 3 months before posting. This guidance also applies to shill farms - it may improve your performance & mental stability in the future.
So you admit that the USN is outdated then?
Also, China has over 30 054, they are there to provide mid range area air defence to 055/052D/Carriers, not just ASW.
>So you admit that the USN is outdated then?
He didn't say that dumbass
>provide mid range area air defence
>against planes they cannot detect at that range
Oh I can't fucking wait for this.
>One less missile in the USN's magazine, one missile closer to a long trip back to Pearl to reload.
You do know that Zap Brannigan isn't an isn't widely recognized military strategist? Also those boats would be unlikely to be the first line of defense and thus unlikely to be the first to engage the enemy. And since it will take months at least to prepare for a Taiwan invasion there is plenty of time for other powers to stockpile and cache supplies in more forward locations. Chinks seem to always think everybody else will be caught by surprise when they invade Taiwan despite it being nothin like a land invasion and impossible to conceal their intent while building up the necessary assets.
I can't wait for this either. Where the fuck do you think the US Pacific Fleet is going to refill its VLS magazines? Or refill its torpedoes? Guam? Have fun getting Donged. Australia? It's almost as far to Australian ports as it is to Hawaii. And even if the type 056s aren't ever in range of US surface combatants, that doesn't mean US submarines operating independently wouldn't need to fire on one if they're trying to interrupt the PLAN crossing the strait. The point also holds true for the Type 054s, which have been on extended blue-water deployments, but you also dismissed out of hand.
>And since it will take months at least to prepare for a Taiwan invasion there is plenty of time for other powers to stockpile and cache supplies in more forward locations
I don't know about that. Last I checked, China wrecked a good chunk of the CIA's intelligence gathering operation recently. A lot of US planners also seem to only focus on PLAN ship movements, ignoring auxiliaries like the RO-RO ferries that would provide a majority of the sealift to Taiwan in an actual invasion scenario. Initial wave might be going ashore from LHDs and LPDs, but those RO-ROs are going to be what sustains the op after the landing. Planning like you'll have months of warning reeks of complacency more than anything else.
>we can just assemble the largest amphibious task force in history without getting caught
Nice concern troll there Jo-White from Ohio providence.
Also if I was a chink I'd deploy the 054s closer in where they can run to shore in case of bad sea conditions and cover the forward elements with this shitty but numerous anti-sub missiles they carry, the ones that deploy passive torpedoes when they impact the sea. They might never get a kill but if you wanted to keep the SSNs from sinking every major surface combatant while they pull off some time sensitive shit that would be one way to buy 18 hours. Their is the question of how many times you can fire off thousands of missiles to deploy what is essentially a naval minefield but that might be one thing China can do. They can't hunt the subs but they can provide a fleet screen, like destroyers did at Jutland.
You don't seem to understand that just because a ship can operate far out doesn't make it blue water, the issue is seakeeping, can it operate without shaking itself to pieces in bad seas. Also it is relative, we'd consider many ships from the 19th century totally inadequate but they were sent around the world.
Why do you think it's concern trolling? Because I'm telling you things you don't want to hear? I'm American born and raised. I want the US to remain the premier naval power, because at least the US supports freedom of navigation and commerce. China, despite being one of the nations that helped build UNCLOS, prefers to act like the only rules on the high seas are whatever they make up. We've lived for so long assuming that that freedom is a given, but it's an anomaly in world history and it was only ever a thing because first the UK and then we made it so by force of arms.
What you don't seem to realize, is that this is something that has to be addressed early and quickly. If we wait to expand our shipbuilding infrastructure and fleet until China has reached technological and numerical parity across the board, its too late even if we do get 3 month's warning. Fleets and their support infrastructure take decades to build. Our shipyards are in famine mode, our last couple next-gen shipbuilding programs have been miserable failures, and our fleet is shrinking in size. Our ships are constantly forward deployed, maintenance is constantly deferred, and crews are being run into the ground. That's not a war winning combination, and navy leadership and DOT leadership (for the past 2 decades, this is a problem with both parties) all seem to have 0 incentive to rock the boat and try to make things better. We're in the biggest naval arms race since the early 1900s, but instead of keeping pace with our competitor we're carrying on like nothing has changed.
>You don't seem to understand that just because a ship can operate far out doesn't make it blue water, the issue is seakeeping
Anon, a Type 054 has zero issue operating in blue water. They have been and currently are deployed around the world. Do you think the Perrys weren't blue-water capable too? You're reaching for any excuse to dismiss Chinese shipbuilding at this point.
>Type 054 has zero issue operating in blue water
What ship is in the infamous chinese naval webm anon? Are you sure the other ships are built to better standards?
>technological and numerical parity
Look if you want more weapons I'm all for it, there is nothing I admire more than long hard fast objects full of able seamen which explode if penetrated, no homo. Seriously though I expect China to be weak but I also would like two dozen more major naval assets built each year, just because we can. Murder every shitskin, garden gnome, and libtard and suddenly the American Empire has a surplus 2 trillion to spend on whatever and I'd rather have it spent on naval assets than anything else. Yes the US technically has twice the industrial output of China if we use the same criteria as Murica, Nippon, and Deutschland use to define "industrial". Yes America has more useful assets than Chinks could hope to accrue in a lifetime. But I want more and want to crush the weak under iron boots and grind their children's bones into chicken feed. I suppose this is all a matter of semantics, I assess the Chink threat as low but want to crush them with overwhelming force while a libtard might assess it as high and want to crush it with overwhelming force.
I stand for hatred, strife, misery, and war. I'm not here to uphold or rekindle the light of civilization, I'm here to snuff out the light and murder the dawn. I want to cut not only China but all nations off from trade and murder 5 billion by starvation, lack of access to medicine, and general deprivation over the course of a decade and thought 50 ssns would be sufficient I'd rather have a thousand. I want to kill all the chinks just because I value the polluted pebbles under their feet more than their lives.
Rapid dogs get put down anon, tread lightly
>RO-RO ferries that would provide a majority of the sealift to Taiwan in an actual invasion scenario
What you Américains don't get is that China doesn't plan to invade Taïwan. Taïwan had always been a bait to make the Americans fight in China's doorstep.
China will just blockade the island and dare the US to come.
nice. Blockade taiwan and declare hostilities against all of europe and asia. what an incredible strategy.
Let me get this straight. chinese grand strategy to retake taiwan is to blockade it, thus getting rid of the world's largest supplier of good semiconductors which will definitely make australia, japan, SK, and India chimp out locally, forever destroying your naval imports of crude into china and exports of manufactured product, which at best will only ruin the chinese economy and at its worse lead to energy shortages and starvation.
And doing all this to take over semiconductor fabricators that the chinese don't know how to run and maintain, and that will be scuttled before the chinese manage a takeover.
In this scenario, you dont even need US intervention for china to eat shit.
>doing all this to take over semiconductor fabricators
You are retarded. China don't care about TSMC.
China cares about having 1/2 its btus of coal and 9/10 of its btus of oil cut off.
maybe they dont, I doubt it. but every other country certainly do. And now asian countries now have an interest in checking china's geopolitical influence in the region, and what better way to do this than to use their navies to steal crude freighters headed into china and to shipping containers containing chinese exports. Because surprise surprise, nobody likes the wolf warrior diplomacy that threatens the sovereignty of other nations.
you know, as much as people hated the US and its global dominance post WW2. The US at least had an ideological interest in maintaining free trade everywhere and investing into countries, benefiting all countries involved. If the chinese took geopolitical control over southeast asia, free trade and investments will be as fragile as "socialism with chinese characteristics", which really just is a cover for corporate fascism in that contradiction-ridden nation.
I have no idea why this so rarely gets brought up in Asia-Pacific discussions. While the countries there aren't too keen on the US meddling in their affairs, that certainly doesn't mean that they want to go back to the days of kowtowing to the Chinese Emperor.
probably because most people equate chinese diplomacy with american diplomacy. and its hard to tell the difference to someone who doesnt pay attention to world events.
There are major differences of course:
US will not chimp out and destroy relations over the smallest of insults.
US is actually able to officially admit mistakes, making them much more trustworthy to everyone involved.
US deals and terms arent outrageous because they want to build alliances. Chinese deals unabashedly tries to rip you off. Theyre not looking for equal allies but vassals. neither side remotely trusts each other
>Theyre not looking for equal allies but vassals. neither side remotely trusts each other
Good description of America
>The US at least had an ideological interest in maintaining free trade everywhere
the only thing the USN is good at is pirating other nation tankers. They cannot do shit against piracy.
Piracy only improved when the PLAN enters the picture from: SEA to Africa.
picrel. How the fuck did the most powerful navy in the world even let that happen right under its nose LMAO? not once but twice.
We aren't going to start wars over every little spasm of anger iranians have anon, and letting them collapse on their own is a much more viable strategy as they are not a true threat
you conveniently forgot the part where its a CHINESE-owned tanker bud.
You mean like they already do and the USN sails right through?
>Which are larger and more capable.
But also fewer vessels. Which in the current world means they're constantly forward deployed, deferring maintenance, and running their crews ragged.
>These are off-shore patrol vessels and not actually ocean worthy, while they'd be in play in Taiwan
Good thing Taiwan is the only plausible scenario that kicks off a war between the US and China.
>they are also a single missile away from instant death
One less missile in the USN's magazine, one missile closer to a long trip back to Pearl to reload. And despite the internet tough guy talk, even though they are anemic combatants in a fleet action, they are still in play and threats to US submarines. They and the Type 054s free up more valuable combatants like the Type 052s for actual fleet actions instead of policing the strait for the RO-ROs. In the peacetime navy, they also allow for new commanders to get sea time and command experience without jeopardizing their career if they kiss a sandbar.
>Type 054s... they are heavily limited cope boats
And the LCS with all their issues aren't? The things are being taken out of service so rapidly even the Ticos might outlive them.
>but would die instantly in combat
What ship other than a carrier and maybe a Tico or Type 055 isn't getting immediately rendered mission killed by a missile hit? You're claiming this about the PLAN, but completely ignoring that the same is true for the Burkes and LCS.
>The ultimate reason I left them out is because they exist to fill a gap that China has in its coast guard
They are PLAN ships numbskull. I didn't make the list, a retired USN sub commander who served in the theatre made it. If he thought they were worth recording, that's good enough for me.
Point me to where these are CCG vessels? I can't find anything other than some Type 056s that have been transferred over. You're also missing a big difference between the CCG and the USCG. The CCG, just like the maritime militia and fishing fleet, are just as much a training pipeline and source of auxiliaries for the PLAN as they are customs/law enforcement and actual fishing vessels. They also have cutters that are literally the size of our Burkes. The USCG is far smaller and it's role is geared towards law enforcement and maritime emergency response. They're very, very different organizations.
> Same with counting the tonnage of older classes for the US
Those classes exist and are in service, so why would they be excluded? Something being old or obsolescent doesn't mean it isn't still lethal. You go to war with the navy you have. It's not like the US in WWII went "oh poopoo, these 4-piper destroyers are so old, we can't use them for anything".
>ignoring the stark limitations of the Chinese undersea fleet.
While a lot of it is for littoral waters (what is the Taiwan strait) or older and noiser SSNs, what I'm trying to point out is the production disparity. Huludao is going to be producing the next model SSNs, and it's finishing up a massive expansion this year. That shipyard is going to have a shitload of capacity, whereas the US is currently maxed out at 1-2 Virginias a year and also somehow supposed to supply Australia with some new-build SSNs under AUKUS. I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility to see China start putting out large numbers of Type 095s in the next decade. At the rate China is producing ships, the number disparity is only going to get worse for us unless we follow suit and devote a lot of money to expanding our yards and building new ships, along with taking steps to address our manning issues. If we continue like it's business as usual for the next decade risks the destruction of Taiwan and an economic crash for the USA.
There is a lot of low hanging fruit for sabotage. The United States being the more open country with tens of millions of non-citizen residents has the greater vulnerability. Read "the illusion of national security" ...chemical plants, railways, electric grids... all pretty easy to destroy really.
Of course if we know who's doing the sabotage we can pretty easily military respond with incisive strikes. But breakdown of order would be catastrophic in a country full of beastly morons.
Carriers probably won't be the deciding factor for them against the US, that's more for their own future global commitments to gain future standing among friendly african states or whatever. I'd be more worried about them setting up strong A2/AD with all PLAN assets + whatever they can cover with from the mainland, especially from harder-to-reach inland areas.
Seriously if war with China breaks out I hope we see the three gorges get blown. The amounts of drowning bugmen webm’s would be glorious
But the three gorges is invincible, it’s designed to withstand nuclear bomb, etc etc.
any hardened penetrator will destroy that poor fucking thing. No need for nukes, just a bunker buster.
Would never happen, it would make le holocaust, holodomor, nuclear bombs and the belgian congo look like a schoolyard prank. The us public would instantly reel at the results. But at the same time, if push came to shove, it would be a target, and the chinese know it, which is why it won't come to shove.
Attacking the homeland of a nuclear weapon country may not sound very wise
I would agree. So why are you threatening infrastructure attacks on America?
Fair play and all that, if you want to do something to someone else, you also give consent to have it done to you.
Please understand, we don't want to have to kill several hundred million people. That's just what is going to happen if China decides to fuck around with American power grids.
It'll be a moment where inexplicably, every spill-gate and lock gate on the 3GD fails at high water.
When the water starts flowing where it shouldn't is where the fun begins
Another post-commie shill wrecked. It's all so tedious.
The Liaoning and the other CATOBAR Chicom carriers are meant to scare off weaker SEA navies and spook serious Korean and Jap navies.
With this most recent achievement, fate has, in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Chinese dragon, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically bloody ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. The blessings of Chinese plasma stealth technology, undetectable hypersonic combat vehicles, quantum direct-current electricity, neutrino submarine detectors, gamma titanium mono crystal turbines, quantum aircraft carriers, unmanned autonomous A.I. tanks, near-space ballistic air-to-air missiles, super light tanks, +2km range airburst rifles, quantum enhanced railguns, 5G Remote Surgery, magnetized plasma cannons, and quantum superalloy drones will be the instruments with which China affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers the non-western world a different option; an humanist alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more equitable and dignified multilateralism.
CHINA NUMBA ONE !
>Realistically what could China hope to accomplish in an all out non-nuclear direct confrontation with the US?
Run interference for a joint nuclear strike on America. That's all.
"Now, it seems like we are in the same critical period as the “horses were drinking water” in the Yangtze River days in the revolutionary era, as long as we resolve the United States problem at one blow, our domestic problems will all be readily solved. Therefore, our military battle preparation appears to aim at Taiwan but in fact is aimed at the United States, and the preparation is far beyond the scope of attacking aircraft carriers or satellites." — Defense Minister Gen. Chi Haotian (2003)
They had that mindset that back then? I mean I know they always did but I assumed things were sorta chill post Tiananmen until the very late 2000s
They were in general pretty chill until Xi came in around 2013 and went full retard with his "Obey China or eat dirt!" Wolf Warrior diplomacy thing. They realised that such rhetoric doesn't win you any friends so they've resorted to throwing money at people, mostly poor African countries who have valuable resources and poor pacific countries who have deep water ports, but we'll see how long that lasts when you have the US navy floating off your doorstep.
>Realistically what could China hope to accomplish in an all out non-nuclear direct confrontation with the US?
they could sink every carrier in the indopacific within 12 minutes.
>they could sink every carrier in the indopacific within 12 minutes.
Sure if they want to get nuked, or do you think India would not respond to balistic missiles being fired in their direction by a nation that they have been in escalating border clashes with for the past several decades?
Let's limit the scope to US carriers in the pacific, then. And no, this would not invite a US nuclear response unless the US feels like getting nuked back in kind, guaranteeing their loss of hegemony among other more pressing matters. Like the continental US in general being a patchwork nuclear wasteland
>we attack you and you do NOTHING
Who said nothing? Do you think the only response the US is capable of is nuclear response? Pretty sad to hear that the US is Russia-tier, I thought you burgers said your military was better than this
It's enough that it could defeat a US invasion without having to get occupied and form an insurgency, which is more than most countries could say. They'd have to peel off a fair few allies diplomatically before they'd have a serious chance of taking Taiwan by force, though.
the chink shills are extra lazy today so I didn't even get to explain the pun or argue about how underdeveloped and emasculated they are
鹰击 yingji acronym "YJ" = Eagle Strike
東風 dongfeng acronym "DF" = Eastern Wind
but if you put these two acronyms together, you get
应付 yingfu acronym "YF" = cope, plenty of that for the 21st century lmao
in summary, CPC is very gay, and feel free to use 自干五痛哭过穷于应付 i.e. the wumao who does it for free cries bitterly because it's too hard to cope over how worthless YF-21 and YF-21 are
currently cowering in fear (laughter) from your cope missiles
i am not that missile guy. I am an enthusiast. The BBC bribes... why did the US navy abandon them? I have no answered that.
Blue water navy and shit, respond anywhere on earth blah blah.
but the precious few white women left in America... defiled in Sudan... why?
I am sure you are a BBC enthusiast, but it is purely your fantasy, have a nice day retard, no one cares what you think
why do chink shills all talk like stilted retards, always back handed questioning, can't ever be direct, it's probably because they're all pussies and can't be direct.
in their culture you cant talk directly to superiors and they presume you to be white as that is who their demoralisation is targeted towards so they assume you to be superior.
Unironically this. It's cultural fear. You see it with Russians who get outright scared they're arguing with Americans and will deflect by pretending you're British or an East Euro, and even with the bongs they get flustered and scared.
>why did the US navy abandon them
Because US never had a peer competitor. ASBM are only cost effective against large ships
Why are you so obsessed about Sudan? Is that all you got?
that's all I need to see the true nature of the US navy and logistics.
drone carriers are the future. China is gonna pump out small unmanned or very small crew escort drone carriers that orbits a supercarrier.
I still don't understand the ramp. If a jet hasn't achieved liftoff speed by the time it's there, it's going to fall anyways. Is it just there to make the event funnier?
the ramp increases angle of attack for the plane, allowing it to launch at a lower speed.
however, the plane cannot carry as much fuel or munition, because its launch is not assisted by a catapault.
always hilarious to see poverty-pilled CCP retards shill the "economic progress" of China. Imagine 95% of your country being poorer than Mississippi lmao
Bit misleading. The left side of the map has ~6% of the population while taking ~57% of the land.
What really matters is the median/avg of what people make. Thats equivalent to ~19K USD PPP. 19K USD per person equivalent to Russian GDP per capita in PPP. So interms of economic development, China's caught up to Russia. And is similar to Turkey/Hungary/Mexico/etc, they're ~20K level per capita.
But that is also misleading. Individual economic situation doesn't translate into country's economic situation. Otherwise island nations like Singapore or Borneo would be the most powerful nations in the world. What really matters is a country's GDP per capita, PPP wise. Thats the amount of capital accessible to the country for its own military/economy/culture/industry/etc.
Chinas GDP per capita, PPP is $27 trillion. US is at 23 trillion.
For that matter, China's median PPP of 20K is roughly equivalent to late 80s US economic. No one today says everyone in the US was poor back in the late 80s.
Is that 20k with the spending power of the 80’s US dollar?
$20K/y in China will get you a house, high gigabit internet, car, all the modern luxuries, etc. In any new T1 or T2 city, or even T1 if you want to rent in apartment. You're basically middle income class of the 80s that the US dreamt of.
Thats just the average too. If you're in tech side of things or international trade side of things, your income is much higher. If you're working for a company like Tesla in China in a manufacturing job, you're making equivalent to ~$30K/p in PPP. Thats equivalent to what a standard working class American earns today. With that, they're basically living the high life.
30K in US can't get you shit. You need to earn double that to get by with apartment lifestyle.
I’m gonna say you’re full of shit given then massive poverty and shit living ideas that constantly come out of china
If you go by the shit you see in memes, all you'll see is US on the verge of collapse.
Anon I do t think I’ve EVER seen a video or picture of China that wasn’t a peasant farm or gutter alley tier dump or them dying in industrial accidents, everything else is propaganda coming out of there.
Your post is unrelated to topic of PrepHole- weapons topic. Remove yourself from this board.
Forgot your English classes, Wang?
Anon that’s a news piece emphasizing the problem, you’d never get that from China, we get everything from cctv and people interacting with them.
Yeah we get stuff from some of their cctvs but they cant do anything here.
Where as if you post any gore in any of the mainstream social media with US workers, there's not only the chance of your acct being banned, but also potential legal issues against you. China cant reach us here, therefore we get some of their cctvs. Similarly, on other countries, they see the darker side of the US thats censored here.
>$20K/y in China will get you a house, high gigabit internet, car, all the modern luxuries, etc. In any new T1 or T2 city, or even T1 if you want to rent in apartment. You're basically middle income class of the 80s that the US dreamt of.
LOL nope. My parents are in Shanghai, and my grand parents are in Yantai. We talk all the time, so cut that bullshit.
>20% youth unemployment
>41m people retired in the past 3 years
>70% of the working age population haven't finished high school
>300k people from Guangdong being sent to the countryside within the next 2 years
>Local governments defaulting on debt
It's pretty funny listening to people hype up China's eradication of poverty.
China might have a large population but they're mostly serfs.
They'll probably peak in 2030 or so (hence their expected invasion and commencement of a regional war over Taiwan by then), and then it's downhill from there for 30 to 50 years as their elderly population bleeds them dry.
For decades now, China has been propping up their GDP with large government projects. The infrastructure was largely necessary for a growing population, but the population is no longer growing. It’s shrinking. That infrastructure cost would make an economic return, but no longer. So we’re entering a phase where, should the government wish to continue their strategy, they’ll be lighting yuan on fire under a busy-jobs program.
>peak in 2030
China already peaked in terms of working age population, they've been declining for several years now based off official data. Unofficially...... it's probably worse.
Lol indeed, total automobile production is down slightly while exports are exploding to me sounds like they've got a HUGE consumption problem.
consumption is not a problem. and your graph looks like it's going up to me retard kun.
i know. reading a graph requires at least a freshman education.
This may come as a surprise to you but 29mil produced in 2017 is more than 27mil produced in 2022. I
China has the opposite problem of US. In the US, everyone spends and are debt ridden. In China, everyone saves and economic grows "slowly/steady" as a result. The Gov is trying to push everyone to spend more with electronics money. If Chinese middle class spend more, their economy will grow even faster.
Who the fuck is expected to believe this crap?
This isn't a belief. Its a fact.
Anon they invest outside of China, not even the Chinese want to live there
Thats neat, but everyone with money diversifies their funds for protection against single event collapse. Thats called smart investment.
I really hope you get paid for this, 奴隶农奴
Resorting to monkey like behavior is a typical of chinkoid psyops.
Yes I’d say repeating yourself constantly does make you look bad
>the gross national savings rate
Very silly sleight of hand, Chinese household debt as a percentage of GDP has skyrocketed to 62.1% since 2014 and this is comparable to 66.4% in the US.
The difference is that the US household debt is not meaningfully increasing (it has been stable over that period) while China's debt crisis has no sign of slowing down.
Additionally, these numbers severely underrepresent Chinese debt, since you cannot account for flipped fund accounts due to lack of reporting. Anecdotally, thousands of Chinese mainlanders discuss their severe debt & how they were trapped and tricked by home retail ponzi schemes.
Do you want to guess who's hording the cash? It isn't the average Chinese. Also, the metric you are quoting relies on reliable GDP data. If GDP is artificially inflated, say 15%, then the savings rate will also be increased by 15% necessarily. When you look at raw numbers (GNP & internal debt) you see it balloon as companies - not individuals - dig up massive credit to invest. This is the driver of several recent real estate scam implosions in China.
20k in the us today is poor as fuck, unless China is sone how temporarily in the past
You clearly don't understand what PPP is because they kind of are. $1 goes much further in China than $1 in the US.
Anon that just means Chinese currency is worthless
When Americans talk about their subs they remind me of that kid we all had in kindergarten or early school, who would during games would claim that he is invisible, invincible, and that he won you by touching you. It was impossible to argue with that kid. If you were to play toy guns, he would claim he is bulletproof, but claim his imaginary bullets hit you for real, or he would invent super powers for himself, depriving everyone else of powers, just because he said so, so he would always "Win" in our games. There is a kid like that in every kindergarten or school.
Same way grown up Americans now talk about their submarines - those subs are magically everywhere, at every point of ocean, invisible and totally silent and if they are not somewhere, they can teleport there, torpedo everyone, get away undetected and teleport across the globe.
can they not? prove it.
Seriously. Subs aren't magic, PLAN knows their strengths and weaknesses and will be positioned to mitigate them. It's not like they're just sitting around and doing nothing when it comes to ASW measures against US subs
Yeah? How? Nightmare mode: simultaneously claim the US has no counters to the latest chink cope tube.
US nuke subs are magic compared to most nation's abilities. The power plants on them alone scares Ruskies and Chinese. The Chinese in particular are desperate for US sub knowledge as they have been forced to develop mostly green water sub forces for their needs. Now those diesels are great for littoral work, but in blue sea they're dog shit and the USN will kill them. I would also like to point out tobyou that our subs have continuous deployments with blue and gold teams to ensure a sub is never in port longer than a quick resupply and repair. Our subs are very spooky and have very interesting training and software to match
>T. Former NavSea Carderock worker.
Can't wait for this war to actually take place so shills on both side would finally shut the fuck up
The boring but correct answers:
1. The Chinese military is a branch of the CCP, it is NOT a national institution. Careerism and corruption is deeply engrained.
2. Almost all their "modern" gear are Soviet or Russian designs they stole and copied. There may be some upgrades from China’s more modern industrial base but they’re fundamentally inferior to modern US gear.
3. Zero modern military operational experience. No actual training, just propaganda pieces. As an institution the US military is in a different league.
4. The only serious war fighting capability China MAY have are the large numbers of ballistic missile forces (if that is actually verified), which are not a threat to the USN, but may threaten allies forcing the US deal with it anyway.
Every single time we talk about navies, somehow, every country that could be talked about going to war with the US always ends magically being able to completely nullify the US aircraft carrier problem through magic and cope
I mean how the fuck DO you? They NEED magic at this point
>unfit for war
Why is the possibility of conscription now being discussed for a country "unfit for war"?
Anyone talking about beefing up the army in a conflict with China can be safely ignored on that point. I do like his idea of cutting the army back to just a cadre to train draftees. If we're ever in an actual position where we need to upsize army that badly, the draft won't be an issue. Cutting the army then frees up funding for the navy, merchant marine, and hopefully the coast guard. All of which are much more important in keeping sea lanes open and prosecuting a war against a major naval power like China.
The simulations (yeah I know cringe) basically say that if the IS don’t intervene they could probably take the Pacific theater, but if the US does get involved they’ll walk out in shambles and we’ll walk away crippled. It’s not a victory, but they’ll bloody us enough that we’ll have a weakness that we’ve never experienced since Ww2
>lol lmao ramp
>lol lmao non-nuclear propulsion
>in one day field as many sorties as a USN carrier does in 12 hours in the last 'exercise'
They would attempt seizure of Taiwan and likely succeed. From there leaving the SCS becomes dicey. We would probably get the first real naval action since WWII with a few US CSGs squaring off with their Chinese counterparts. I would give the edge to US in this as we have a true Naval tradition and literally wrote the book on modern carrier warfare, but Chinese subs and green water ships would be a constant harassment. We *might* see them even attempt to lockdown the Viets/Thais/Flips but it would be ill advised. Long range missile strikes on Guam, Diego Garcia, and Japan bases are a guarantee though. The Chinese might have the gumption to try and seize Guam with an invasion force but with Japan nearby it would be tough. I sincerely doubt they'd go full swing against Japan though as this would only escalate the fight. Ideally for the next 2 decades Chinese Pacific war plans are limited to trying to kneecap US CSGs and subs kn the area.
Wow, it goes to show you really have to crush opponents completely right away— if Mao devoted the resources of his new state to wiping out Chiang’s forces across the water, they could have eventually done it.
Unless the Americans would have stepped in then, which they may have.
lol its 4am in poland, and the shilling is utterly non-existent
not much. HGV seems to be their only option, but lets not kid ourselves and be deluded in thinking that the US is just going to be stupid enough to let their ships get destroyed by them. Plenty of ways to avoid them, and it takes one stealth bomber to take it out.
Also, im not convinced that its this supermega shipkiller that it thinks it is. Otherwise, china would have already invaded taiwan since it wont theoretically have to worry about the USN.
Which brings THE question to all the wumao ITT. Why havent china claimed complete domination over the asian seas yet if its technology and military is oh do wonderful?