Not training to dogfight or training in close engagements is like the Army or Marines not training their troops to fight hand to hand combat. It doesn't happen as much in war anymore but they still do it.
Based Chinks have realized that dogfighting is dead, it’s all about getting a lock on your target without getting locked on yourself.
Because it's meant to do long range interception and anti-ship ops over the Pacific. In both of those jobs a gun is dead weight. These days the only job you really need a gun for (and arguably its the worst tool for the job) is CAS
>NUOO AMERICAN F35 DONT USE YUOR MAINU GU- ACK
Chink cope, just admit you dumbasses didnt account for the gun
If guns are so important why do 2 out of 3 F35 variants lack an internal gun? All the Chinks did was figure out the same thing we did years ago that the Chair Force for one reason or another denies. Reminder that Navy phantoms never got internal guns and their kill/loss ratios improved around the same time as gun equipped AF F4s entirely thanks to better training and doctrine
I'm American you brainrotten nitwit, call me a chang all you like it won't bring back gun on gun dogfighting. That does get me thinking though, what if we made the A10 fire 30mm APFSDS? That'd solve the penetration problem while making me cum harder. That or make it bigger for a 40mm gun
The only reason the F-35 has a gun is because congress watched Top Gun and will now autistically screech about any attempt to remove it from a design. It's clearly not designed to dogfight and would be a marginally better airplane without a gun.
Because it's meant to do long range interception and anti-ship ops over the Pacific. In both of those jobs a gun is dead weight. These days the only job you really need a gun for (and arguably its the worst tool for the job) is CAS
Because they know it's pointless to add a cannon since they'd get blown to smithereens before they see anything to dogfight if the chinkmutts have to face the superior F35.
Nope, at least not how you're envisioning it. It'll likely come down to stealth fighters sending Fox 2s at each other. Not the good old fashioned tail chases of Dubya Dubya 2 or Nam
With this most recent achievement, fate has, in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Chinese dragon, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically bloody ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. The blessings of Chinese plasma stealth technology, undetectable hypersonic combat vehicles, quantum direct-current electricity, neutrino submarine detectors, gamma titanium mono crystal turbines, quantum aircraft carriers, unmanned autonomous A.I. tanks, near-space ballistic air-to-air missiles, super light tanks, +2km range airburst rifles, quantum enhanced railguns, 5G Remote Surgery, magnetized plasma cannons, and quantum superalloy drones will be the instruments with which China affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers the non-western world a different option; an humanist alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more equitable and dignified multilateralism.
Nah, the odds of an infantryman stabbing someone in 2023 are thousands of times higher than a fighter needing a main gun. And they're not even remotely comparable, a bayonet is practically no weight for an Infantryman, a main gun is a massive difference for a fighter.
>a fighter
F35 is multirole and having an integrated gun allows it to retain stealth without needing gunpods. Doesn't matter for the j20 because it isn't really stealth in the first place
In May 2018, Indian Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa claimed at a press conference that the radars on India's Su-30MKI fighters were "good enough" and could detect a J-20 from "several kilometers away" while answering a question on whether the J-20 posed a threat to India.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>poo
Opinion dismissed
1 year ago
Anonymous
you think the poos have space based ISRs to actually confirm things like that? lol.
>The 4.5G F/A-18 Hornet Navy fighter jet has an RCS of 1m2, about the same as the Russian SU-34/35 and the Chinese J-20. The 5G F-35 has an RCS of 0.005m2, about the size of a golf ball.
Also i hate that people quote RCS figures for the superhornet or eurofighter like this and then compare them to stealth fighters.
These aircraft don't have internal bays, no integrated IRST, they have to carry external tanks to have any range, their quoted RCS is basically a useless number.
I Remember back when before chinks had the j-20 they all used the fact that some f-35s dont have guns as a way to say its dogshit
but now that their 5th gen fighter doesnt have a gun it of course changes the whole narrative
Give them a break, they needed those big canards for a reason and they’ve been stuck with those old ass engines for like a decade+ and you’re bugging them over not adding a gun? Have you seen what went into making the F-35’s gun?
Yes everyone knows the J-20 is a joke vs the F-22 and F-35 and is probably not even 5th gen but it’s still a working fighter jet with SOME stealth capability, AESA radar, internal bays, etc. They did finally upgrade the engines. Respect it for it’s accomplishments from how low it had to come out off.
I'd give them respect if it was a home grown design and not just copied but worse.
Chinese engineers have real issues, despite graduating more every 2 years than USA has in totality, they need to copy what they do and struggle to design their own shit. Chinese engineering degrees must be nearly worthless.
They do copy a lot without understanding it, most often out of unrestrained corruption & greed in lower industry where quality control isn't a thing.
But yes, past a point, especially in aicraft/military domain with lot of oversight, it is impossible to copy without an almost equivalent understanding of the technology.
Well, obviously, Western engineers are much better — and any really good Chinese engineers would be crazy NOT to go work for Western firms which treat people MUCH better. Having a handful of hero engineers doesn’t make the difference. Chinese industry is maybe to corrupt to compete properly.
Most western engineers are fricking trash. Just like most eastern engineers. The difference is in the work ethics. I think the Chinese are marginally better.
Can't we just ADD a gunpod later and get the same overall result with less trouble?
You only use guns if you ran out of missiles and missiles are getting so efficient it will be a matter of who have more than the other.
Also it's kinda just a fast heavy bomber. Its meant to leave if there's enemy interceptor.
Another thing. Modern A2A missiles are in fact very reliable and accurate but they’re not magic. There are factors which make then less reliable, like, not being able to approach targets within your missiles’ no-escape zones which is much lower than their maximum range.
Probably because modern guidance systems are pretty fricking good to the point they ensure a fairly high hit rate. Pretty much leads to stacking more missiles instead of guns+ammo.
As much as /k/ likes to shit on China, I think that based chinks have the right idea here, it’s super unlikely that you would need a gun with a modern stealth fighter
The A should have just gone with the pod as well. Only time guns are used nowadays is churning dirt on ground attack. Strap it on the centerline pylon when you're running close air, save the weight or add more gas for every other sortie when you'll never use the damn thing.
This is also your friendly reminder that naval phantoms in Vietnam posted better kill ratios than the air force despite never receiving a model with an internal canon.
They don't believe dogfighting can be a thing now.
Not training to dogfight or training in close engagements is like the Army or Marines not training their troops to fight hand to hand combat. It doesn't happen as much in war anymore but they still do it.
that's because the army is a make work program. the chinese care about practical results
Knives are cheap, guns are expensive
More so, they're meant to fly from within Chinese air and fire long pgm range missiles. Stealth + long range missiles = no melee fights
Copey way to say they don't fit on their carriers lol
They'll fly from their carrier and extend some couple hundred mile away. The missiles with then add couple hundred/thousand miles.
China -> Carrier = ~few hundred miles
Carrier -> Jet = few hundred miles
Jet -> Missile = few hundred - thousand miles
Overall it will be ~2000+ mile radius range
Nope because the plane does not fit on any of their carriers
I stand corrected, just remove the carriers and put it on land. Thats ~1500 miles of range.
I think they have plans to develop a naval variant to replace their j-15s tho.
Isn't it's main role just take down tankers and AWACS from long distances?
Don't need a gun for that.
>NUOO AMERICAN F35 DONT USE YUOR MAINU GU- ACK
Chink cope, just admit you dumbasses didnt account for the gun
If guns are so important why do 2 out of 3 F35 variants lack an internal gun? All the Chinks did was figure out the same thing we did years ago that the Chair Force for one reason or another denies. Reminder that Navy phantoms never got internal guns and their kill/loss ratios improved around the same time as gun equipped AF F4s entirely thanks to better training and doctrine
Because the US actually HAS the capability to make different variants Chang.
I'm American you brainrotten nitwit, call me a chang all you like it won't bring back gun on gun dogfighting. That does get me thinking though, what if we made the A10 fire 30mm APFSDS? That'd solve the penetration problem while making me cum harder. That or make it bigger for a 40mm gun
>APFSDS on a forward-firing airplane gun
That's a great way for your engine(s) to suck in the sabots and shred itself to pieces during the gun run.
You're right, turn the gun around then. That way the pilot can also use it as a speed boost as well in emergencies
There is space made for gun in the J20. It just doesn't provide enough benefits for the added weight. Also this
The only reason the F-35 has a gun is because congress watched Top Gun and will now autistically screech about any attempt to remove it from a design. It's clearly not designed to dogfight and would be a marginally better airplane without a gun.
Based Chinks have realized that dogfighting is dead, it’s all about getting a lock on your target without getting locked on yourself.
And how are they going to do that against a stealth F35? Their radar cross section is measured in meters as opposed to cm's in an F35.
If you can't get close enough to use a missile, how will you get close enough to use a gun?
That's what PL10 are for
Because it's meant to do long range interception and anti-ship ops over the Pacific. In both of those jobs a gun is dead weight. These days the only job you really need a gun for (and arguably its the worst tool for the job) is CAS
Because they know it's pointless to add a cannon since they'd get blown to smithereens before they see anything to dogfight if the chinkmutts have to face the superior F35.
They designed before they watched Top Gun: Maverick and realized the gun could be used by a hero pilot in 60 years to take down a more advanced plane
But anon, its not the plane its the pilot.
the pilot needs a gun
it's possible that widespread adoption of stealth tech will lead to a return of dogfighting as BVR combat becomes more survivable
Yeah so this is a common but pretty fricking stupid take.
1) Air-to-air detection ranges for modern stealth fighters are probably on the order of tens of kilometers
2) WVR doesn't mean "dogfight". 18km is WVR, it's not exactly a merge.
3) Even when dogfights do occur, they're pretty much decided by high off-boresight IR missiles, not guns.
Nope, at least not how you're envisioning it. It'll likely come down to stealth fighters sending Fox 2s at each other. Not the good old fashioned tail chases of Dubya Dubya 2 or Nam
Impressive.
With this most recent achievement, fate has, in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Chinese dragon, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically bloody ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. The blessings of Chinese plasma stealth technology, undetectable hypersonic combat vehicles, quantum direct-current electricity, neutrino submarine detectors, gamma titanium mono crystal turbines, quantum aircraft carriers, unmanned autonomous A.I. tanks, near-space ballistic air-to-air missiles, super light tanks, +2km range airburst rifles, quantum enhanced railguns, 5G Remote Surgery, magnetized plasma cannons, and quantum superalloy drones will be the instruments with which China affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers the non-western world a different option; an humanist alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more equitable and dignified multilateralism.
this but unironically
China planes are so shit they can't even flight in straight line
What the hell did I just watched? What was the point?
training for "unsafe intercepts"
Love their blue clothing.
More like dabs on robotic mutts
China is pretty cool guy.
eh makes interesting designs and doesnt afraid of anything.
>main gun
No such thing on modern fighters. A gun on your fighter plane is the equivalent of a bajonett on your infantryman.
Id rather have it and not need it than the opposite
yeah, but you're moronic and don't matter
Nah, the odds of an infantryman stabbing someone in 2023 are thousands of times higher than a fighter needing a main gun. And they're not even remotely comparable, a bayonet is practically no weight for an Infantryman, a main gun is a massive difference for a fighter.
>a fighter
F35 is multirole and having an integrated gun allows it to retain stealth without needing gunpods. Doesn't matter for the j20 because it isn't really stealth in the first place
>Doesn't matter for the j20 because it isn't really stealth in the first place
We are at denial phase now
At what range can a j20 be detected by an f35?
In May 2018, Indian Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa claimed at a press conference that the radars on India's Su-30MKI fighters were "good enough" and could detect a J-20 from "several kilometers away" while answering a question on whether the J-20 posed a threat to India.
>poo
Opinion dismissed
you think the poos have space based ISRs to actually confirm things like that? lol.
>The 4.5G F/A-18 Hornet Navy fighter jet has an RCS of 1m2, about the same as the Russian SU-34/35 and the Chinese J-20. The 5G F-35 has an RCS of 0.005m2, about the size of a golf ball.
>source my butthole
Also i hate that people quote RCS figures for the superhornet or eurofighter like this and then compare them to stealth fighters.
These aircraft don't have internal bays, no integrated IRST, they have to carry external tanks to have any range, their quoted RCS is basically a useless number.
But the government shills on this board told me that internal cannons are useless because the F-35 B and C don't have one. Which one is it, nu-/k/?
I Remember back when before chinks had the j-20 they all used the fact that some f-35s dont have guns as a way to say its dogshit
but now that their 5th gen fighter doesnt have a gun it of course changes the whole narrative
//toy
/toy
>toy//
>/toy
>//toy
>>toy/
Also tianamen square or some shit I don't fricking know anymore
Give them a break, they needed those big canards for a reason and they’ve been stuck with those old ass engines for like a decade+ and you’re bugging them over not adding a gun? Have you seen what went into making the F-35’s gun?
Yes everyone knows the J-20 is a joke vs the F-22 and F-35 and is probably not even 5th gen but it’s still a working fighter jet with SOME stealth capability, AESA radar, internal bays, etc. They did finally upgrade the engines. Respect it for it’s accomplishments from how low it had to come out off.
I'd give them respect if it was a home grown design and not just copied but worse.
Chinese engineers have real issues, despite graduating more every 2 years than USA has in totality, they need to copy what they do and struggle to design their own shit. Chinese engineering degrees must be nearly worthless.
>muh copying
Anyone unironically believing this only shows that he understands less than nothing about plane design or manufacturing.
They do copy a lot without understanding it, most often out of unrestrained corruption & greed in lower industry where quality control isn't a thing.
But yes, past a point, especially in aicraft/military domain with lot of oversight, it is impossible to copy without an almost equivalent understanding of the technology.
> They do copy a lot without understanding it
Minimum wage b***hBlack personhomosexualmutt who’s never done FMEAs trying to sound smart.
Well, obviously, Western engineers are much better — and any really good Chinese engineers would be crazy NOT to go work for Western firms which treat people MUCH better. Having a handful of hero engineers doesn’t make the difference. Chinese industry is maybe to corrupt to compete properly.
>Western engineers are much better
KEK
E
K
Most western engineers are fricking trash. Just like most eastern engineers. The difference is in the work ethics. I think the Chinese are marginally better.
One yuan has been deposited into your account. The Chinese Communist Party would like to thank you for your service.
>t. some b***h homosexual who's never worked in a professional engineering environment
You need to said high tech manufacturing environment. Software engineer won't get why there is no such thing as copy
Except I am a dev doing embedded baremetal work and I know you can really have a product without understanding.
>can’t have
Fixed typo
Can't we just ADD a gunpod later and get the same overall result with less trouble?
You only use guns if you ran out of missiles and missiles are getting so efficient it will be a matter of who have more than the other.
Also it's kinda just a fast heavy bomber. Its meant to leave if there's enemy interceptor.
Another thing. Modern A2A missiles are in fact very reliable and accurate but they’re not magic. There are factors which make then less reliable, like, not being able to approach targets within your missiles’ no-escape zones which is much lower than their maximum range.
It's not the Vietnam war anymore, grandpa.
Probably because modern guidance systems are pretty fricking good to the point they ensure a fairly high hit rate. Pretty much leads to stacking more missiles instead of guns+ammo.
As much as /k/ likes to shit on China, I think that based chinks have the right idea here, it’s super unlikely that you would need a gun with a modern stealth fighter
Dunno. Ask why the F-35 doesn't have one and reuse the same arguments the Redditors spew out.
hmm
Now do the B and C versions, dingus.
hmm
>a fricking pod
The A should have just gone with the pod as well. Only time guns are used nowadays is churning dirt on ground attack. Strap it on the centerline pylon when you're running close air, save the weight or add more gas for every other sortie when you'll never use the damn thing.
This is also your friendly reminder that naval phantoms in Vietnam posted better kill ratios than the air force despite never receiving a model with an internal canon.
>Soo umm.... whats up with having with no main gun?
Don't need a gun when the extent of your military's "combat" experience is rounding up Uyghurs for the gulag.
A lot of countries don't bother with a gun. There's a lump of concrete in the British Typhoon where the gun should be.
Either that or there's a gun but they never bothered to buy ammo. It's just there for balance.
The comfy era of dogfights is over anon. It's time to move on.
>a fricking muttard
'nuff said
>asshurt chang
Checks out