Chieftain for Ukraine

There are literally hundreds of these lying around

>Stick a new engine in
>update sights and radios
>give it the DU ammunition from Challenger with adjusted bag charges for the older gun
>make a chobham version of the still brew armour
>slap on some aesthetic soviet ERA
>Remote weapon station with .50 cal and thermal sight.

You now have a tank that can shit on the T-54/55/62/64's that Russia is now deploying in large numbers. And by the time it gets there it will dab on the T-44 and 34's too.

This is the most aesthetic tank option available to Ukraine.

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  1. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    an unmodified chieftain will probably dab on what the russians are using 95% of the time.

  2. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Didn't Iran have these and they just constantly died ?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      They replaced the L60 with the V-84 and redesignated those Mobarez

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/3rWVsyU.jpg

        There are literally hundreds of these lying around

        >Stick a new engine in
        >update sights and radios
        >give it the DU ammunition from Challenger with adjusted bag charges for the older gun
        >make a chobham version of the still brew armour
        >slap on some aesthetic soviet ERA
        >Remote weapon station with .50 cal and thermal sight.

        You now have a tank that can shit on the T-54/55/62/64's that Russia is now deploying in large numbers. And by the time it gets there it will dab on the T-44 and 34's too.

        This is the most aesthetic tank option available to Ukraine.

        But yeah, as far as I am aware where the hell are the "literally hundreds" lying around other then Iran and Iraq (who reactivated a few Chieftains vs ISIS)
        IIRC Jordan have retired their Khalid tanks, so that if they have them in storage, I guess that's an option, but you need a lot of work to modernize it.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          The UK. You can't move around our museums without bumping into them. Very few of the 900 were scrapped. Heaps of them just got dumped on our firing ranges too (pic related) although you obviously wouldn't restore those ones.

          You can even buy them privately, this company is selling 4 right now.

          >https://tanks-alot.co.uk/product/chieftain-tank/

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            Most of those museum chieftains are completed gutted inside.
            Also if they are in the UK, the gun is disabled by cutting the breech

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              Not necessarily. There are plenty with no bore cut, but they are plugged.
              They can be unplugged.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            There are 3 Cheiftains in some bushes near me lol

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            >although you obviously wouldn't restore those ones
            Just have one of those youtube channels that likes fixing old things do it for free.

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              Funny you mention that

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Oh neat, thanks; I will have to check that out later.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Knew you would have been linking to hewes before checking.

                Great little channel.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            how much does it cost to buy one

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      to t72m1 and chinese t62s. yes.
      to be fair they were used poorly but its not like the iraqis were using theirs any better

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Didn't Iran have these and they just constantly died ?

        The biggest tank battle of the war involved the Iranians driving right into a prepared defensive line and getting stuck in the mud without infantry support, even the Iraqis couldn't screw that up.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          As we recently realized iraquis were better than most people think

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Older marks of chieftain with older ammo
      Give it TOGS L26 or L27 and it could pose a real threat to t-72s
      Still I'd be worried about the logistical burden of its unreliable engine

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >TOGS L26
        h-h-how long is it?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Kuwait also had these and stomped 30 t-72's with no losses.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bridges

  3. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Stick a new engine in
    Simple as.

  4. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    If we're talking about British engineering from the cold war, better get Jordanian Chally 1's. They can even shoot some of the Chally 2 ammo

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      A Challenger 1 is literally just a modified Cheiftain 2 moron, the FCS Thermal sight etc is the same.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >A Challenger 1 is literally just a modified Cheiftain 2

        You're way off the mark. The latter tank doesn't even exist.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >The Challenger design by the former Military Vehicles and Engineering Establishment (MVEE) near Chobham in Surrey originated in an Iranian order for an improved version of the Chieftain line of tanks in service around the world. These were the Chieftain Mk5(P)- FV4030/1, FV4030/2 Shir (Lion) 1 and 4030/3 Shir 2. With the fall of the Shah of Iran and the collapse of the UK MBT-80 project, the British Army became the customer and the tank was further developed by MVEE to meet Western European requirements.

          The Challenger 1 is the Cheiftain 2 brainlet. When Iran collapsed and cancelled its order the Brits renamed it the Challenger. You were never on the mark to begin with.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            design origins mean frick all, there is next to no commonality. Totally different hull and turret, new engine, new FCS and optics.

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              >The L11 was developed by Britain's Royal Ordnance Factories to equip the Chieftain tank as the successor to the 105 mm L7 gun used in the Centurion tank. It was also used on the Challenger 1, which replaced the Chieftain in British and Jordanian service. The weapon has been superseded by the L30 series 120 mm rifled tank gun.
              You stupid c**t the newest cheiftain had identical FCS and gun as the Challenger 1.
              Stop coping and know when your wrong you autistic freak.

              >Iran wants improved cheiftain
              >UK develops shir 2 a la cheiftain 2
              >Iran collapses, UK renames shir 2 Challenger 1
              >Keeps FCS, Gun and electronics. Adds on UK only armor and new engine

              Get educated.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >the newest cheiftain had identical FCS and gun as the Challenger 1.

                Because the newest chieftain came AFTER challenger 1.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Cheiftain with same gun, fcs, electronics and togs as challenger 1 1975
                >Challenger 1 introduced 1983

                Do you have mental issues with not being able to admit you were wrong?
                >Kuwait, 1975
                In 1975 all British Army earlier Marks of tanks except Mark 1's were upgraded to Chieftain Mk.5 standard as part of the 1975 "Totem Pole" programme. "Exercise Totem Pole" was carried out in six-to-nine phases depending on the Mark of vehicle being modified (Chieftain Mk.5's already had some of the required changes incorporated at the factory) between 1975 and 1979 and included fitment of the Marconi Improved Fire Control System (IFCS), replacement of the searchlight with the Barr & Stroud Thermal Observation Gunnery System (TOGS), along with modifications for using FSAPDS ammunition. Upon completion of each phase the vehicle received an additional suffix to the designation, e.g., "Chieftain Mk.3/S(Y)2" denoting a Mark 3/S having completed the first three phases of "Totem Pole". including addition of Clansman radios,[xvii] fitting of TLS, fitment of Muzzle Reference System (MRS) [xviii] upon replacement of L11A3 barrel with L11A5 barrel,[xix] and fitment of 750 hp L60 Mark 8A. These vehicles were re-designated Chieftain Mk's.6 to Mk.8.
                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chieftain_(tank)

                Scroll down the variants you can see here where Cheiftain 2 became Challenger 1 you imbecile.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Nice self own.

                "completely new MBT"

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >B-but it says entirely n-new!
                Hence why I said the Cheiftain 2 in my op you fricking spastic, the fact that it's on the Cheiftains variants proves me completely right.

                A Challenger 1 is literally just a modified Cheiftain 2 moron, the FCS Thermal sight etc is the same.

                keep trying to soothe your autism though.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Hence why I said the Cheiftain 2

                Hence why I've been telling you no such tank exists, Challenger 1 is an entirely new Hull and turret. It's not a modification.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Iran wants modified cheiftain
                >UK works to make a new Cheiftain
                >Iran bails, UK adds its own armor and calls it Challenger 1
                Kys moron

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                but thats the issue, the development project went far enough from chieftan to be a distinctly new tank hence challenger not chieftan 2 itshull was based on chieftans but significantly up armoured, with a new engine and suspension and a completely new turret

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                There is no such thing as Chieftain 2. The development process resulted in an entirely new hull and turret and this became challenger 1. If you'd ever seen them in the flesh you would know this.

                I sometimes call the Sherman the M3 Lee II "Completely Different Hull and Turret"

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Ouch.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                There is no such thing as Chieftain 2. The development process resulted in an entirely new hull and turret and this became challenger 1. If you'd ever seen them in the flesh you would know this.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Different hull
                >Different turret
                >Different armor
                >Different engine
                >Different transmission
                >Different suspension type
                >Different in every dimension
                >Different manufacturer
                >Identical gun
                >Virtually identical FCS
                >The Challenger 1 is really the Chieftain 2
                Bro...

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                The Challenger 1 is literally an upgraded Cheiftain like the other anon is telling you, you can read it on wiki dude.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                > Citing wiki as a source
                Ishyddt

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                the Chally 1 was essentially a reheated Chieftain and showed it in terms of reliability and gunnery

                Chally 2 by contrast despite sharing a similar hull is inarguably a separate tank

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >You stupid c**t the newest cheiftain had identical FCS and gun as the Challenger 1.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                What?
                Both Totem Pole Upgraded Chieftains and Challenger 1 used the Marconi IFCS/CSS and both used the L11A5.
                Firepower wise they were identical.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Firepower wise they were identical.
                That's a terrible argument. So were the KV-1 and the T-34 Model 1940, but it doesn't make them the same tank.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                I didn't say they were the same tank.

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              Challenger 1 uses the exact same FCS and Optics as Chieftain.

              the Chally 1 was essentially a reheated Chieftain and showed it in terms of reliability and gunnery

              Chally 2 by contrast despite sharing a similar hull is inarguably a separate tank

              Challenger 2 hull is exactly the same as Challenger 1. Only the turret and the internal systems are different

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Chieftain
                Forgot to specify later Chieftain mks fitted with IFCS rather then TLS or the Ranging MG

                https://i.imgur.com/pIoZeur.jpg

                Daily reminder that there are thousands of M1 and M1A1 Abrams sitting around in California.
                They could have been refurbished 6 months ago and now entering the battlefield.

                But no, America does not wish to see Ukraine win.

                Lima/Anniston is at max capacity with orders for US, Taiwan, Kuwait, Poland

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >They can even shoot some of the Chally 2 ammo
      So can cheiftain, it shares pretty much the same gun as challenger 1.

  5. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    why bother with the upgrades, just dump them on the Poland boarder, let the Ukrainians figure it out

  6. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    These would be a logistics nightmare to restore, let alone retrofit with a new engine. US already backed out of providing base M1 Abrams because of how long it takes to restore these, and provided M1A2 instead

  7. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Also the Brits have barely any ammo left for their tanks, all the factories have closed down ages ago, it's a miracle that they found any stockpile for the few Chally 2s that they've sent over.

  8. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Very little reason when there's already hundreds more leopard 1 around.

  9. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Daily reminder that there are thousands of M1 and M1A1 Abrams sitting around in California.
    They could have been refurbished 6 months ago and now entering the battlefield.

    But no, America does not wish to see Ukraine win.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Same with the atacms or the many M198 howitzers we could send over and not cripple our military. Hell we could bring the USS Salem back to operation and give the Ukrainians shore bombardment capabilities without affecting our current naval effectiveness.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Europe was supposed to solve Europe.

      and it has.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Ukraine is a lot more important to America than Europe.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        2/3 of Europe would be happy to go back to doing business with Putin. It's mostly in US interest to keep Ukraine standing.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >and it has.

        You mean Poland?
        No one has donated more actual equipment than Poland.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          I mean I would have liked to think the scope of what I said was broader than that. NATO is back with a vengeance, the Nordic nations have combined their air power. MIC has fired up again. Europe is ready to clean house and fix a lot of shit that has been hanging around for decades. It even looks like Serbia has figured out it can't be a pet antagonist any more, although it's going to have to go through a shitload of reforms.

          Things aren't perfect, why would they be, but the US has a lot to be happy about in terms of how things are going. At the very least, they have a shitload more "Good boy" countries now than they used to, so they can commit their yelling to South East Asia now (Which they are doing, holy christ I decided to take up my apprenticeship at EXACTLY the right time holy military contracts batman)

  10. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >There are literally hundreds of these lying around
    And they're fricking terrible.
    Even the guy who named himself after them thinks so.
    I'd link you the video but finding a video named about a tank with the same name as the guy is annoyingly difficult as he also named one of his video series "the chieftain's hatch."

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Maybe try the FV designation

  11. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Diden't Jordan have 400 Challanger 1s that they retired?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      There was some talk of them being bought and Rheinmetal modernising them for Ukraine, but nothing's come of it as far as I can tell

  12. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Just replace the armour, the ammunition, the sights, the engine... at that point, haven't you replaced most of the tank?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yes but also no

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Armour
      many times have tanks had a different armor pack added-on and it's still the same tank, e.g. Chieftain with Stillbrew
      >Ammunition
      Upgraded ammunition still means it's the same tank, e.g. Chieftain with L23A1
      >Sights
      Tanks have had their sights improved numerous times over their lifespan, still the same tank, e.g. Chieftain with IFCS and TOGS
      >Engine
      This one is 50/50 depending on what the manufacturer feels like Chieftain with CV12 is Shir 1/Al-Khalid
      Leclerc with MTU 883 is still a Leclerc

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        What I'm suggesting is not a philosophical distinction but a practical one. You've replaced pretty much all the components that are major cost factors for a tank... you're more than halfway to buying a brand new vehicle at that point.

  13. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >just make a chobham version bro

  14. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    This seems to be the thread for it:

    How complex is conversion from torsion suspension to hydrogas suspension for a tank? Is there good documentation anywhere for the process where it has been done?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      There was an Abrams demonstrator with Hydraulic suspension.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        This seems to be the thread for it:

        How complex is conversion from torsion suspension to hydrogas suspension for a tank? Is there good documentation anywhere for the process where it has been done?

        And more recently there was a Bradley testbed with the suspension

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/WS677r8.png

          There was an Abrams demonstrator with Hydraulic suspension.

          real swede energy, I like it. I assume it didn't work out?

  15. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Tank with no autoloader would not survive in Ukraine a single day.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      moron

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