in conan the barbarian, as much as i hate how the sword was cast in an open-faced mold, and then quenched in snow of all things, by the end it almost seemed to make too much sense- since conan easily snaps the thing in two with his own sword
got me thinking, how "durable" would swords made in this way actually be? would they be like the movie- where they can be used to some degree but smash under pretty much any normal use, or would they be so awful that one or two swings would be enough to shatter them?
With modern metallurgy and differential heat treatment I’m sure you could make one that won’t shatter but it would still suck
It was magic you retard.
huh, didn't know Crom was that picky about when and where it would break...
The whole movie relates to the metaphor or "riddle" Conan's father tells him at the beginning.
Think back to what you thought when you heard him talking to Conan.
>You must learn it's riddle Conan, you must learn it's discipline. For no one in this world can you trust, not men, not women, not beasts... This you can trust.
He's not making some kind of edgy statement about "only trust weapons" it's very important to think about his perspective. He's a smith, a steel-smith in a world so savage and primitive that might as well be (and might even involve a little) magic. The scene is preceded by the man making every single part of the sword with his wife, from guard to leather wrappings. The sword is taken by a warlord, and fails him in a critical moment. The greater villain Thulsa Doom believes only in the power of Flesh, which he explains is the power of absolute will, immediate and individual. Doom doesnt believe in man's ability to build something beyond and above himself, to be exalted by an act of creation.
*Here* is the enigma of steel: You can trust your sword because you understand it. You made it, you collected the ore, you forged it, you know which animal the leather for the handle came from. It is, more than just an expression of you, an *elevation* of you, beyond what your flesh could ever express. It's all your study and diligence, your discipline and knowledge and strength crystalized into an object, and whatever weakness it has, you put there. Steel is something you must reach your peak in all things to use correctly, and if you do, you surpass your limits.
Conan's father's sword is of less avail to the veteran warrior who does not know anything about it than it's broken shard is to the Man who understands it fully.
Of course, there is a strange irony that Conan must place his faith in the sword of the giant Atlantean king he finds buried, though it's still through his father's sword he gains his ultimate victory.
tl;dr you have succeeded if your sword WILL KEEEL
Hello to Wehrwwulf dynamics
You're missing a major point, neither Conan's father nor Thulsa Doom are entirely correct, their answers are opinions rather than truth, and their answers are two sides of the same coin. His father's sword shatters at the blow of a sword found in a mouldering tomb, Doom meets his death alone after his men and words fail him.
that's because the true answer to the riddle of steel is the human will, the will to survive, the will to fight, the will to attain victory
that is what makes steel strong
Human individual will is Thulsa Doom's power of Flesh. You must be more than a strong individual, you must be the collective learning and discipline of your people.
>"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty" - Frank Herbert
The riddle of steel is that a pound of steel weighs the same as a pound of feathers
He did follow the "no on in this world can you trust" line.
Implying you, Great Trickster.
This is the correct answer.
You are both wrong, both flesh and steel are weak as they are both ultimately material. Only the immortal Hyborean spirit can destroy both. It's only once Conan asks for Crom's help that he overcomes his adversary.
>It's only once Conan asks for Crom's help that he overcomes his adversary.
And yet my god is stronger. He is the Everlasting Sky. Crom lives underneath him.
Crom laughs at your four winds
Haha so funny that we wrote you out of the sequel.
RE Howard Conan doesn't really have many recurring characters besides Conan, and they reappear briefly and sporadically. He always just kind of fucks off and finds more warlocks to strangle for treasure and bosomy wenches to rescue and fuck.
Subotai couldn't have saved the sequel.
do you think they... you know?
neither of them were particularly shy
she's a big guy
>here, put on this burnt cork
>mexican
She is Austrian?
no he fuck his goblino mexican maid and had a kid with her
having access to all the 9 and 10/10 pussy that goes to hollywood in hope of making it big he shags his goblin
Ironically the kid she gave him looks like a clone of him while his Kennedy kids look like shlubs (Well, one of them at least, I think the other one is normal looking, but still doesn't look like daddy)
Goblins are better at sex hasn't the internet taught you anything.
nah man Arnold prefers shitty 4/10 mexican cleaning ladies
Cimmerians aren't Hyborean.
Cimmerians are the descendants of Atlanteans. Kull the Conqueror is Conan's distant ancestor.
Those gay wolves didnt know what hit em
Dope. I've never had any interest in seeing Conan before now.
Watch it then read this afterwards.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1611489902570639361.html
(sorry for the weird site but Twitter threads dont work no more)
It's like it's a proper movie or something.
Or you can be a butt hurt moron like Oliver Stone and dismiss it as a "western", the jelly lil' fuck.
Spoiled rich brat
i suppose so, but this is the Hyborian age, which is like uh... 10,000BC i think it was?
i suppose humanity was still in it's 'hm, monky still figure out how metalle work...' phase
The movie is implied to be right at the end of the Bronze Age, which is why iron weapons are considered rare and valuable. The film starts in Germanic tribal lands, moving to central asia, with the majority of the film i. Anatolia.
makes sense, they're still figuring shit out in relation to steels
It actually kinda doesn't. Thing is, early iron weapons were straight up worse than bronze. But iron was a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to produce in large quantities, because of how rare substantial tin deposits that could be exploited with bronze age technology were.
No, steel came late in the iron age and was an industrial delicacy until 1700, and prohibitively expensive until 1850.
The Conan universe is set in a mythical age of pre-history where people were more advanced than they were in the bronze age. The destruction of the city of Atlantis is what begins the Hyborean age. The Atlanteans became the Cimmerians after the destruction of Atlantis, and Conan is a Cimmerian. They took scraps of technology and wisdom from their homeland but lost much of it.
I don't know if it's actually stated anywhere but I believe the Conan stories were set around 9000 BC. The movie takes a lot of liberties compared to the source material though
Conan's sword in the movies was Atlantean which made it superior to anything 'modern' smiths could make.
it's cast as a blank and then forged. you see him hit it with a fucking hammer in the same sequence. goddamn.
the op is talking about his father's sword, which is the one made in the opening credits.
It doesn't help that cast iron is both a material and a process. Cast iron as a material is iron with 2% or more carbon, which should be well into the steel category. Technically ZDP-189 is cast iron since it has ~3% carbon.
That's the sword that breaks his fathers sword right? Implying that Atlantean tech was superior to even his fathers.
i suppose it's like those ancient steels we literally cannot replicate in the modern era, just their version of it?
Yes and no, yes as in "we can't really replicate the trade secrets of a vanished society using the technology we believe they had" No as in "modern steel is superior to everything made before the 20th century (unless it came from China)"
the modern steel that came from China or everything from before the 20th century that came from China
Steel from Han: better than 90% of what could be found in Rome. Steel from Ming: declining quality vs European advancements. Steel from commie slaves now, worse than 19th century Bessemer products.
There's actually a good reason for all of that and it boils down to fuel availability and people quality
Back during the old days of China, there was still lots of forests in the northern part of China, and perhaps more importantly there were still a lot of military nobility around, the kinds of folks that were rich enough and had a vested interest in affording swords and armor that were worth a damn. Since labor was cheap and charcoal fuel was readily available, good equipment could be made and there was demand for it.
Problem is two things: around the end of the Tang dynasty, a massive rebellion wiped out almost all of the military nobility, meaning that the people who knew how to fight and who wanted to buy good arms and armor died out, and then secondly during the Song dynasty, the Chinese ran out of forests to use for charcoal. They ended up turning to coal as a fuel instead, but they didn't understand that Chinese coal was absolute dogshit in quality with high P and S that basically made any iron product they made worthless for combat. By the time the Ming Dynasty came around, Chinese people were so detached from actual military knowledge that they ridiculed the Portuguese for having swords that bent. For those of you who don't understand what that means, the implication is that the Ming viewed a stiff rigid sword as being a proper sword, whereas in the rest of the world an ideal sword will bend in the face of stress. This also implies that the Ming were likely making cast iron weapons and armor while the rest of the world was still using wrought iron. Cast iron weapons and armor made with shitty coal. I'll let you figure out how combat effective Ming soldiers were.
>Cast iron weapons and armor made with shitty coal. I'll let you figure out how combat effective Ming soldiers were.
About as effective as those terracotta soldier dudes buried in that one emperor's tomb, probably
So good enough to run the largest Empire of the day. Got it.
The problem there is that the terra-cotta army was manufactured with plastic injection molding. It is fraudulent. Which is why they don’t allow carbon testing
The army predates carbon, so pointless anyway.
Smirk
Clearly I'm late to the party, but I need something to piss off the "Canadians" who've been shitting up my forum lately, qrd?
Google it up lazy moron. Its fake and china wont let anyone touch it
This is my favorite scene in any film. That fucking score is a miracle and the set is gorgeous. RIP Kull.
>That fucking score is a miracle
Conan as a silent film is.... adequate.
Conan as a film with Basil Poledouris' soundtrack is an epic saga.
Honestly, one of the very greatest soundtrack/scores in cinema
>Honestly, one of the very greatest soundtrack/scores in cinema
This is a true statement. I like 'The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. I have it. I like 2001:A Space Odyssey, I have the flim on disk. I can't think of anything near as good, muchless better. I will have to rewatch John Boorman's Excaliber, but doubt.
Excalibur has a lot of classical music on the soundtrack. So while it is fantastic, much of it isn't original.
>The Atlanteans became the Cimmerians after the destruction of Atlantis
How did they got from Atlantis to Crimea?
Uber.
Atlantis was actually a half km2 island in the Sea of Azov.
Swimming
>The movie takes a lot of liberties compared to the source material though
Thank Crom John Milius bought it from Oliver Stone!
I'm not saying it's good or bad or whatever. I'm just saying that I know more about the book lore than I do about the movie lore because nobody really knows anything about the movie lore as it barely has any. And I'm not a pro either, I just read a couple of the books years ago.
I know this is merely a jape but the Cimmerians (and many cultures in the Hyborian age) were being constantly displaced by conflict. Peoples were moving around a lot.
>I just read a couple of the books years ago
For all the reading I did, the Conan series and Ship Who Sang series escaped my interest. The covers by Boris and Frazetta were brilliant! By I went classic and did the first 20 or so Tarzans by Burroughs. That filled my fantasy gap. Never did the Dragon Riders of Pern sets, either. Ursula LeGuin was the only female writer I could stand. But a friend of mine was very into Conan, saying the movie had unrelated segments taken out of sequence from separate books, like 'The Witch' scene getting stitched in with him meeting Sumati. As much as I revere Milius, that segue shows a little abrupt editing. Double rec the soundtrack. I may put it on today.
Conan stories work best as a 'conversation' with Lovecraft, specifically Tower Of the Elephant and Beyond the Black River. A lot of them are fairly repetitive because they are made to get a check, and you don't have to read them. The other ones I recommend are The Red Nails and the novella Hour of the Dragon.
The Scarlet Citadel is my favorite and the ones where Conan is a pirate or sailor are pretty fun. I liked all the stories really, if there were any I disliked I don't remember.
>The film would be nothing however withoutBasil Poledouris’ score—mood, pacing and minimal portentous dialogue driven, really driven, by that amazing music, a near two-hour infusion of percussive Teutonic intent. Dino De Laurentiis had favored a modern pop-tinged feel but was wisely dissuaded from this idea by Milius and Poledouris, knowing the score would have to fill long dialogue-free interludes, helping to suggest the atmosphere of the ancient Hyborian age. Because of this and its many choral pieces, it is often considered operatic in intent and execution. The composer flexed his musical muscles with his knowledge of the Middle Ages’ musical construction and folk melodies, utilizing a huge ensemble of players and choral singers from two separate orchestras, recording in Rome. He actually began work based on nothing more than storyboards, modifying as filming progressed. Milius had originally wanted to use Carl Orff’s powerful “Carmina Burana” but discovered John Boorman had already done this withExcalibur. He was also interested in the Gregorian chants of “Dies Irae.” Poledouris managed to successfully convey the feel of these pieces without creating a slavish rip-off, adapting lyrics for the chanting of the piece accompanying Doom’s opening attack on Conan’s village (“Riders of Doom”) to Latin, based on a medley inspired by the structure of “Dies Irae.” His score is full of powerful brass, cymbals and percussive elements threaded throughout several different motifs that sweep the action and mood along. “Anvil of Crom” is meant to suggest the primitive period setting, full of primal timpani drums and 24 French horns. It is the string sequence of that piece, noble, regal and romantic, that suggests Conan’s heroic nature. The long, swaying theme for “The Orgy” where Conan and friends infiltrate Thulsa Doom’s bacchanalian retreat is a wonderful piece, composed jointly by Poledouris and his young daughter.
Source: https://cinephiliabeyond.org/want-live-forever-john-milius-conan-barbarian/
Great artical, linked in here
I have the soundtrack too. I was really disappointed that the mix in the movie was so much better. The horns have no balls on the CD and it really robs it of grandeur.
>grandeur is stored in the balls
>the virgin neanderthal being taught by the chad homo sapiens sapiens
Truely. James Earl Jones said of filming Conan
>I wish I had someone teach me how to act
Funny, in that he was uncredited for years as the voice over for Vader. Spielberg, Lucas and Milius were buddies who were so close they traded points on a bet how successful thier first big movies would be, Star Wars, Jaws and Big Wednesday, (points = 1%/each) exact trades unknown... and Milius picks up Earl for lead. Earl had FLAT OUT denied working SW on the Dinah Shore show and wasn't credited with Prowess until Return, long after Conan.
Fun fact JEJones recorded Vader's dialog for "the 1st one" in 2.5 hrs for $7.5k.
That's a really hard question to really answer, because we have no good way of saying how durable a sword is overall, and even the specific material properties are often not very well known since a lot of them require destructive testing.
In very general terms though obviously the movie's approach isn't ideal. Starting with the !quench" that sword likely wouldn't be properly hardened as we think of it today. Either it's left effectively unhardened, or it gets a "slack quench" which does far less than a "proper" quenching. Funnily enough the result would in either case be softer than a fully hardened one, so as long as it's steel or plain (not cast) iron it should fail by getting bent into a pretzel rather than snapping off. (Worth noting is that "proper" quenching of swords didn't take off until the end of the middle ages.)
The casting in itself isn't ideal either and likely leaves a weaker blade.but how much is a bugger to say as it depends on, amongst other things, the cooling rate as it solidified, and the attempt at hardening may have redcued the problems.
>They took scraps of technology and wisdom from their homeland but lost much of it.
According to Howard they lost absolutely everything, at their technological nadir between Atlantis and Cimmeria they even lost the use of language.
Increased carbon content makes something tougher and more brittle? That's rather like making t warmer and colder. What increases when you add carbon (within the plain iron to high carbon steel range) is strength and hardness.
As for pig iron being iron of poor quality, that's something dreamed up by people on the internet with the metallurgical knowledge of a pig who thought "it's gotta be bad because pig is like an insult and things". In reality it's the raw cast iron you get out of a blast furnace that's being run to make molten high-carbon iron. Someone though the cast ingots on the runner looked like piglets suckling a sow, and thus "pig iron".
>The destruction of the city of Atlantis is what begins the Hyborean age. The Atlanteans became the Cimmerians after the destruction of Atlantis, and Conan is a Cimmerian
>Atlantis
>Atlantis was built
That’s how you know it’s fiction.
>The destruction of the city of Atlantis is what begins the Hyborean age.
I thought in mythology hyperborea pre-dates it? or am I getting this mixed up because of all the dumb hyperborea memes Ive been watching. I don't know the "official" nazi canon
The Nazis didn't have offical cannon, they used artillery.
Man, I love wild hollow earth shit.
>wild
>implying that there isn't a tunnel to the center of the earth under the great pyramid
Have you been under the Great Pyramid? No? Well ok then.
In Howard's tale the Hyborian Age is named after the Hyborian people, who originated in the north but later migrated southwards conquering most of the lands the stories are set in.
the hyborean age is pre cataclysm, the continents are different to modern day
Where is this map from?
I don't know, I can't find Mordor.
Aaaaaaah, Zimbabwe, the eternal kangdom.
Save me moronman
>with the majority of the film i. Anatolia.
It was filmed entirely in Spain, retard.
And 'Chicago' was shot in Toronto.
Those sneaky bastards! My trust is gone, just gone now.
>Chicago is a lie to hide the massive black site in the middle of Illinois from the public
At last I see
>conan's dad
Must not have made the edit. I so wish there was a director's cut of Barb.
The SETTING is in Anatolia, reading comprehension bro
You did not delineate "setting" from "film", your linguistic issues are your responsibility. And there is no "anatolia".
Retard
Ass blasted samefag.
How is it samefagging if they responded to different posts?
What this anon said the city they visit zomora Is Gomorrah from the old testament. It's set between the great flood and the rise of the Aryan race
Zamora is a currently existing town in Spain, fyi
I've straight up never seen the movie so can't even speculate on its lore, but in the original stories much of the world is in the high middle ages. Fully plate armored knights and widespread use of steel are common. But other parts of the world straight up have cannibals with no metallurgy at all, northern tribesmen with far less advanced metalworking, etc.
It's not set in earth's bronze age or stone age it's a time before that. After their civilizations collapse our stone age begins.
Bølling–Allerød interstadial Period
Pretty fancy letters for someone who eats barley, boiled beef and sea urchin eggs.
>It's not set in earth's bronze age or stone age it's a time before that. After their civilizations collapse our stone age begins.
Antediluvian I presume?
Yep. The opening narration starts:
>Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of.
Sometime between 20,000-17,000 BC a cataclysm destroyed Atlantis and the islands of Mu in a titanic earthquake and reshaped the Earth into picrel. Then there was a second cataclysm sometime between 9000 BC and the beginning of recorded history which reshaped the world into the form we know today.
The other bookend, "the rise of the Sons of Aryas" refers to the emergence of Proto-Indo-European people (i.e. Aryans)
>Shem
What the fuck, it really is based in Abrahamic myth?
Are you retarded. It's based in dozens of different kinds of myth. The ancestors of the norse are on the map chilling as the Aesir and Vanir.
Knowledge has been gained and lost and gained again throughout the ages. The arc of history is long, and it rarely bends towards sustained progress.
>history is long, and it rarely bends towards sustained progress.
We've been doing pretty well at knowledge retention since the Renaissance. Frankly, the burning of the Library of Alexandria was humanity's biggest, single setback. And modern dissemination, I can't see that happening again. Yes, tgere will always be primatives.
>Frankly, the burning of the Library of Alexandria was humanity's biggest, single setback.
I'd that's #3 or #4 as far as setbacks go.
List in order of precedence, not chronology. Lost Aztec or Rapanui codicies not accepted.
Modern American linear historic thinking
History is Age of Empires
History is a tech tree
These are the kind of people that write and read bullshit like Germs and Steel
Typical American simplified history, a nation with a mere 400 year long perspective condensing all other history.
Germs and Steel was full of small mistakes but its central thesis about geographic determinism is solid as fuck.
Also it wasn't americans who made up simplified and linear versions of history, euros were doing that before.
There's "geography always effects culture" and there's guns germs and steel, which is a bitter communist rant about how white people only win because of luck and if you just give Africa more resources they'll colonize Mars.
There was geographic determinism in the industrial Revolution in Europe. It was not single reason but it played its role.
Europeans were pressed on teh outskirts of the land by Islam. Cradle of civilization Mediterranean sea coast was conquered by Muslims. Mediterranean sea, "highway of teh Rome" that supported massive logistics of the Roman Empire became dangerous place infested by Muslim pirates. Coasts were raided, Muslims enslaved millions of white Europeans.
Overall prospects of Europeans were grim. Poor unproductive lands, no resources to match Islamic states who enjoyed productivity of the Southern lands. But European found escape, literally and figuratively through back entrance. Using oceanic ships they sailed around Islamic world to India and New World. And such oceanic trade and ship building kick started Industrial Revolution. If Europeans had lavish lands like Ottomans i doubt Europeans would went for such endeavors instead they just lived in luxury with no development, they would have no reason to try hard.
One extremely important component to the Age of Discovery that is left out of most Western education relates to how brutal the wars were between those overland trade states that wanted to maintain the Eurasian overland route status quo (Venice, Ottomans) and those that realized the huge opportunity in around-Africa, to-the-New World navigation (Iberians and others).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Diu
If overarching trends like this were actually in the water as part of average education, Westerners would (hopefully) realize just how zero sum much of reality actually is. The discovery of the New World didn't just make winners out of Spain, England (later UK), Netherlands, and France: it made huge losers out of the Venetians, the Ottomans, and many Central Asian states.
Inbeetween empires that benefited from the Hispanice and silk trade, like India, spent millenia trying the hardest to prevent direct contact between Europe and China.
>there's guns germs and steel, which is a bitter communist rant about how white people only win because of luck and if you just give Africa more resources they'll colonize Mars.
>tard take
More like European geography being hostile as fuck combined with constant wars drove the development of technology to better kill opponents and extract resources. Meanwhile better resources means less incentive to develop thus Africa is behind because they historically didn't need to be hyper competitive to avoid getting anschlussed by their neighbor.
Human subspecies/races that evolved in climates without long, harsh winters never developed long-term planning skills.
I’ve heard that before and it sounds like someone misinterpreting a specific example and making it into a retarded blanket statement. Like saying if Lee was more assertive at Gettysburg, the South would have won the war. It’s based on some truth but stretches it so far it becomes retarded.
>it sounds like youre wrong
I'm sorry that you feel like my true statement isn't right.
You do eventually hit a point of diminishing returns where overly long, harsh winters cause your population growth to be severely limited and all you can do is unspecialised hunter/gatherer survival like Inuets, Yupik, Siberians, etc.
It isn't just 1:1 More Winter=Smarter. You need a temperate period during which you can plan, plant, harvest, etc.
So how would you explain why the Inuit were in stasis?
Hunting versus agriculture.
Whale oil stunts your growth. Proof, look at Japs.
>Winters only
Russia has variable degrees of shit winters depending on what part you're looking at and so does East Asia at sufficiently high latitudes. Sweden did not become more advanced than the UK and Germany was punching above their weight for a century. Winter doesn't dictate completely but plays into having to have a degree of long term planning. You need to view this as a net of all factors, from shit lands to aggressive neighbors who want to conquer you to having a balance of enough of a harsh winter to ingrain long term planning but not one so fucking shit that you're looking at what goes on in Russia or Alaska.
Europe effectively is the way it is in terms of being technologically advanced and punching far above their weight for such a geographically small part of the world because the net sum of all the pressures adds up significantly. It allowed several European countries to hit their own industrial revolutions in a short time span while they were still in the stage of being shitfaced towards each other. That drove significant competition and caused both World Wars, which was an aggressive developmental lift for several European countries.
The United States of America effectively inherits the people (genetic, cultural, societal) of several of these European states when they were at their peak or near peak of competitiveness while simultaneously having a far, far superior geographic region to work with for resources and overall area allowing for incredibly rapid growth. This allowed America, which at the end of WW2 felt existential threat to itself, to punch even harder than the comparatively small and resource poor European nations (that inducted resources via their colonies rather than domestically).
I mostly agree with you, but dude you are neglecting the new world. That influx of resources directly led to development
Its the cold weather. Warm weather leads to biological innovation, cold weather leads to technological.
>Warm weather leads to biological innovation,
Say that in 50,000 yo Abo for us.
>muh master race REEEEEE
It's funny how that book makes angry both retarded anti-racists and racists
Well said
The book has been discredited since it was written.
Post your gun with timestamp fag.
>The book has been discredited since it was written
Inaccurately discredited by prodork, ponytail wearin', libtard goons. Saying it's wrong doesn't mean that it is wrong. But sure, comfort your fragile ego.
>Inaccurately discredited by prodork, ponytail wearin', libtard goons.
It's an anti white screed writen by an avowed socialist, retard
No gun, no opinion, no post, get the fuck out and go back to where you came from.
I'm whiter then you Pablo
Your shitposts are no good here, noguns, best mosey on back to whatever board you normally raid.
So you read it? Didn't think so. Just another regurgitator of baseless hacks.
No gun, no opinion.
You not reading it and parroting others like a stooge isn't about my opinion, now is it?
Noguns don't get to make requests, demands, arguments, or posts anyone needs to take seriously.
Oh you like guns? Name every gun ever.
Post gun
Accused always goes first, and if they dont have a gun, they fuck off.
You were called out first. Wanna see one of my guns? comb your chud discord for someone who's got a picture of their uncle's piece, gay.
>buh buh buh I'm not the same poster
I dont believe you fag.
It's a shitty book.
>didn't post guns
Reddit tourist.
>>didn't post guns
Only missed by 50%, you have no idea how mant guns i didn't post. Just got one today over 50yo. Well over.
You talk like a gay
Very unlikely much was lost in Alexandria, it wasn't Rome's beacon of scholarship by the third century.
Can you identify any technology that was lost after the library burned? No.
Alexandria had a rival library in Pergamum, where they produced parchment, the two libraries competed to hold the most volumes and copywrite the most prestigious works. There was for sure some unique first editions lost but most of the works of antiquity were lost simply because people didn't care enough about it to copy.
>Can you identify any technology that was lost after the library burned? No.
>No.
It was LOST, DUH. I swear to God.
Nta, but aristoles comedies, perhaps heraclitus works, ancient accounts of atlantis (plato's timaeus references stories from solon's visit). Obviously speculative
>clitus
Heh. Boy's dad really hung one on him.
>And modern dissemination, I can't see that happening again.
Until the next solar flare.
Getting knocked back to the 1800s is very possible (and preferable!) But obviously we can claw our way back up pretty fast from there.
I've been rewatching Terminator: Sarah Conner Chronicles and after almost 20 (?), it holds up. The CME direct hit is preferable to a GRB bullseye, both so out of our control.
>polar shift
Say what? When was thiscreeally on the radar except in B52s Channel Z?
I was going to write a response but this guy ->
Can you identify any technology that was lost after the library burned? No.
Alexandria had a rival library in Pergamum, where they produced parchment, the two libraries competed to hold the most volumes and copywrite the most prestigious works. There was for sure some unique first editions lost but most of the works of antiquity were lost simply because people didn't care enough about it to copy. beat me to it for the most part.
That was bronze sword/
neither of those can really make casting any less less shit.
The modern answer to making casting but not shit is casting is closed die castings
I meant closed die forging
>With modern metallurgy
99% of "modern metallurgy" is how you treat the metal. Maraging steel cast this way is going to make a worse sword than a bronze one from 2000 BC.
Pic looks like they asked someone that casts iron porch hand rail, gate and fence with that curvy leaf pedal theme.
Casting is mostly heavy and thick, so the sword is more like a pointy square mace chink use called jian or bian, cross section of the bar is typically less than the handle.
Pointy tip for jabbing, tapered to widen towards to base to give it good balance point closer to a sword would have, 4 square edges to bite armor at all side, rippled and sectioned like banboo against sliding length wise.
Some also translate it as sword breaker as it can abuse the edge with the mass it has and fold it if dual welding a pair of them.
Depends on the carbon content.
The reason why casting exist, is because it allows you to work with steel that has much higher carbon content, making it extremely tough compared to low carbon steel. However, this makes it also very brittle. This would be awful for swords, swords should be flexible, so they can withstand shock forces and not snap. Cast iron is good when you want some sturdy block of steel, like engine block, big machine part, or something very sturdy like cast iron pan.
Casting also has advantage that you can work with generally low-quality iron, so called pig iron.
The Chinese never made any comabt blade out of pure cast iron despite being perfectly capable of doing so and cast iron being very cheap, so it is very likely that it would had been a terrible idea and indeed too brittle for the shocks of combat. Sharpening would also be a pain, due to cast iron's extremely high hardness.
>where they can be used to some degree but smash under pretty much any normal use, or would they be so awful that one or two swings would be enough to shatter them?
I have no idea what you're trying to say here, isn't swinging a sword "normal use"?
I have a cast iron pan and it’s pretty hard. I wouldn’t want to get whacked with it. Unironically, why couldn’t a sword or some kind of big knife be made out of the same material?
Who wants to cook SPAM on a sword? Not saying you can't.
Because cast iron is brittle, if you were to make a swod out of it will be prone to snapping in half; though you could make a short knife with less problems
>make a swod out of it will be prone to snapping in half
>actually _is_ the climax of the movie
Um, did you watch the movie?
I'm talking irl anon, not a movie
The fact that the sword held up to several blows from Conan blade-on-blade who's using an overly thick and beefy sword and can cut through iron chains with ease, suggests it's stronger than a regular piece of cast iron.
for a moment I thought he has his dick hanging out
You wish.
>Unironically, why couldn’t a sword or some kind of big knife be made out of the same material?
Cause if someone blocks with a better sword, your cast iron one will break. It'll dull quicker too.
Hardness is relative. Your pan is probably around 25 HRc. A good sword will be around 50.
That's the riddle of steel.
Also with forging you can turn cast iron into wrought iron and maybe a poor steel.
That's why everyone was trying to find out what 'The Riddle pf Steel' was about. It was about how to make good steel.
>Hahahaha, oh sword, you so funneh
why cast iron? Why not just cast with normal iron or even steel? I never understood this, what i always hear is that cast iron has a higher carbon content which makes it more brittle, but why not just cast with lower carbon steel? Surely then you could just normalize it to reduce stresses from casting
The more carbon the lower the melting point (well, liquidus temperature to be exact). For pure iron we're looking at 1538°C, for cast iron it'll be below 1400°C. With older technology they often had a really hard time getting things hot enough to melt steel properly (and to cast you need it hot enough to stay properly liquid until it has filled the mould).
Of course, with cast iron being decidedly less than suitable as a material I'm not sure what would be considered the most reasonable interpretation of what we see in the movie. That said, cast steel without some rather specific further treatment is going to be a relatively poor material compared to the same alloy in forged condition (with the recommended method of sorting out the cast material being to get it hot and then beat it mercilessly, aka forging). Even today that's one reason to use hot strip milling.
ty for the insight, Ive always wondered about this. I guess most steel out of steel mills goes through forms/rollers which probably reintroduce the more desirable qualities into the steel after it's melted/poured or whatever
>I guess most steel out of steel mills goes through forms/rollers
Exactly, that's the hot strip milling I mentioned. It takes the cast material and abuses it into forged condition.
Even if you manage to melt steel, it took nearly a century between Hunsman and Jacob Mayer to manage to cast items with steel. And Meyer broke his bell with just a hammer at the international fair.
this thread is retarded but still 100000x better than the ukranian trannies and russian monkeys flinging shit at each other
i know of one guy making cast steel blades for tomahawks, allegdly it can work
https://www.wingardwearables.com/product-page/stingray-tomahawk
yeah, from what i've heard you can cast axe heads just fine
Depends on if you manage to produce ductile iron.
Normal casting will result in a laminar graphite structure, the at the lines it will break at. (on the left)
The spherical bubbles of graphite do not cause this problem, the Chinese were actually really early in making the stuff using it for tools etc.
It wouldn't be complete crap, but still far inferior to forged steel.
Cast steel would also be possible but it's again not something you'd prefer over a powdermetallurgically produced block... moving away form anything resembling casting.
The movie is unironically one of the best movies ever made. Shame the sequels suck dick.
>The movie is unironically one of the best movies ever made
What is the common thread here?
He was so cool
People don't even know: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films_with_screenplays_by_John_Milius
Plus all his uncredited stuff like the USS Indianapolis scene from Jaws and the AA loading and firing scene w/Dan Ackroyd from 1941. America is pussified, picrel.
I forgot how scary this looks the stuntmen and the horses are falling near the on wooden spikes
Agreed. Favorite Arnold movie and one of my favorite films of all time.
Swords weren't really viable until the Bronze Age and weren't perfected until steel started being made. In the iron age you mostly only saw spear and arrow heads being made of metal, or small knives. Nothing all that big and iron being brittle is probably why.
>Swords weren't really viable until the Bronze Age
no kidding, retard
what would they have used? fucking copper or gold?
>yfw macuahuitl with copper or gold blade inserts
some early bronze age swords were just hammer hardened copper with a strong spine.
>bury me with my googly eyes
I know, it's hilarious. They polly Sharpied a dick on his cheek, the wankers.
A cast iron sword would likely be filled with voids, impurities, pores and would quickly break if not outright shatter from basic use.
This will become a hazard, too because metal fragments are going to go flying.
He could maybe make a convincing mace head this way, but not a blade.
If this is my gf's favorite movie, should I marry her?
Whenever we watch it she's always feeling up my arms and shoulders and stuff
If she likes Red Dawn, The Wind and the Lion, Flight of the Intruder, Jeremiah Johnson and The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean, marry her before God in a Church and put lottsa babies in her!
Obviously.
But really you should just be stoked that literally anyone on the planet thinks you're similar to a musclebound barbarian hero.
Yeah, it's a good thing women are so dumb, bros
My wife likes Starship troopers and not as a parody, she just wants to live there. She also hates Carmen and likes Michael ironsides' character.
Nice, Carmen is a cunt.
>she just wants to live there
>MI made me the man I am today
It would be stronger than bronze or wrought iron but weaker than steel. You wouldn't expect the blade to snap but you'd find chips after every battle. It would be a constant fight to resharpen the blade when the edge would break off with every impact.
eventually you resharpen it so much you just have a fucking needle
Pretty much. Eventually you won't be able to swing the blade without snapping it like a twig.
I always liked the temple scene
Fun fact, John cast a dancer as Valeria for her body not her acting.
Stallone copied him in Balboa, saying it was easier to teach a boxer how to act, tgan an actor how to box.
what he cast was an actual fucking valkyrie.
I'm shaking.
Vintage Arnie.
Test
I just assumed that was a rough casting they then went on forge. I don't see what would be wrong with that.
Possibly well known fact: When Conan bites the vulture on the tree of woe, that's a real vulture. It died during production and they stuffed it and decided to use it. Apparently the crew stood by with antibacterial solution for Arnold to gargle so that he wouldn't get sick.
Nice. The camel he punched was live.
EAAAGHHG THULSA DOOOM EAUGH
It's kinda sad, because it means Conan's father got cast away from Crom's presence for failing the riddle of steel.
>cast in an open-faced mold
But the script...
>thor
>the god of fire
ffs John you had ONE JOB
>what are commas for $100, Mike Richards?
read the sentence again, reading comprehension-kun
>csv
>comma
>separated
>values
Don't make me go code monkey on you.
>is it a apple, tree or vagina?
Not apple tree vagina.
>and see them driven before you
Is The Destroyer worth watching? I liked the first film but I feel like theres probably a reason it only got one sequel even though I read they wanted to do four
the destroyer is basically some guy's D&D campaign and it's glorious
It's ok. Grace steels the show. The Evil Queen is iconic. Various flaws. Red Sonja was worse, imo. God, I miss the '80s. Picrel is a gem similar.
Mako stole the show, Grace was just stupid sexy Grace.
I'd rather do Grace Jones than Wendy O. Williams.
I just watched this movie and while moments in it are funny it's almost entirely retarded and shitty.
it does rely heavily on their retard charisma
I mean, they were funny enough. It's the story of a INT 3 barbarian and his INT 1 brother combining their intellect to solve such complex puzzles as "How to acquire an axe from someone who sells axes" and "remembering someone you spent several years with".
I liked it and can't even remember the name, I do remember the lead chicharito was a hottie who carried her muscle bound meat heads very will.
You just know she was getting doubled stuffed by them on a nightly basis, and it was always on the verge of becoming a Lenny petting the rabbits situation.
>You just know she was getting doubled stuffed by them on a nightly basis
Likely not. This was from the mid or even late '80's, most white people were still only having procreational sex and only after marriage and never with the lights on. It was a simpler time
>Most
Actors are never average in terms of degeneracy.
Damn, I need some steroids.
Are you already lifting? It's not majic. You are weak in spirit.
>No profit is seen for this labor, our suffering goes without reward. It is easy to fall into a self-pitying despair absent of any hope of escape or release.
>If, like Conan, we can keep pushing, we’ll find a reward. Through the suffering, pushing and pain, we have developed a strength. Through the sheer act of survival we have been forced to develop our skills, character and mental toughness to endure what others could not.
Also, you can't read.
>and it was always on the verge of becoming a Lenny petting the rabbits situation.
wut
I know what you're referencing but I have no idea how you mean it to apply
>I know what you're referencing
You are ahead of me, because that has no connect for me.
I think OP meant they were at risk of smothering her
Oh. Kinda comes back to
>crush your enemies
>of mice and men
Got it, never read it, didn't see the first one and hate George Clooney, so... Google is friend, but I made an effort.
Seems pretty obvious; they are stupid and because of their strength, they are likely to kill the object of their desire.
>riding the steroid infused swords and sandles wave
Waay better than anythin Lou was in. His Hercules was really bad.
>can't even remember
The Barbarians, 1987.
>The Barbarians, 1987.
Starring [checks notes] the Barbarian Brothers?
What I don't understand is why did they ditch the magic armor when they still obviously needed it?
I'd never seen or heard of this movie until I saw it streaming at the bar I go to a couple weeks ago and now I keep seeing references to it everywhere what the fuck. It's fun and silly, like a drunken DnD campaign. I like it.
Red Letter Media did a video on it a few months ago, which is probably why it has gained more attention.
I don't know if you're aware of this but a few months ago these netflix knockoff streaming services that are free, but pay for themselves with ads, exploded onto the scene.
They buy up the rights to thousands and thousands of old movies the other streaming services don't want, and The Barbarians was among them.
Fun fact: Robert E. Howard, Lovecraft & Edgar Rice Burroughs (Tarzan, John Carter of Mars, et allia.) all held correspondence, and their stories take place within the same canonicity!
TV really ruined everything.
A reasonable analysis of The Riddle of Steel. May take an email for free acct. https://t-layhew.medium.com/the-riddle-of-steel-the-philosophy-of-conan-the-barbarian-8978e01d57d7
couldnt you just copy paste?
Anything for you, sweetie:
>The Wheel of Pain
>The young Conan is taken into slavery after the massacre of his tribe and family, along with the other boys of the village.
>They are all chained to a giant grinding wheel in the desert, known as The Wheel of Pain. They push, moving it forward, all the while toiling in the elements. Day by day, they push until the only one left to push is Conan.
>Through pushing at the wheel, picking up the slack as fewer and fewer are there to push, Conan has grown strong and tough. He becomes tough enough to be sold as a gladiator and set off on a new adventure towards his destiny.
>The Wheel of Pain is a direct allegory. We each, at some time or another find ourselves chained against our will to toil and push. The effort, the exertion and the pain seem endless. It is only us and the wheel.
>No profit is seen for this labor, our suffering goes without reward. It is easy to fall into a self-pitying despair absent of any hope of escape or release.
>If, like Conan, we can keep pushing, we’ll find a reward. Through the suffering, pushing and pain, we have developed a strength. Through the sheer act of survival we have been forced to develop our skills, character and mental toughness to endure what others could not.
>The Wheel of Pain not only serves to strengthen our weakened limbs, it also represents growing up. When tied to the wheel, Conan is but a boy, young and untrained. By the time he finishes at the wheel, he is a man, grown to full height and power. Pain matures as much as it teaches, if we were not to mature we could not take heed of its lessons.
>The Tree of Woe
>When his first attack on Thulsa Doom is thwarted, Conan is captured and sentenced by his nemesis to be crucified upon the Tree of Woe.
>Crucifixion carries powerful religious connotations, with most people readily associating it with Jesus of Nazareth and the idea of sacrifice. Within the Norse mythology, Odin crucifies himself upon Yiggdrasil, the tree of life, in order to attain the understanding of runes and poetry.
>Both of these sacrifices are willing, one dying so that many may live, the other for knowledge. While Conan isn’t being willingly crucified, but there is a sacrifice at play.
>The sacrifice of Conan represents not only his dying, but also the dying of his philosophy. Until this point in the narrative, Conan has remained confident that he alone is necessary to slay his enemy. His failed attack is a failure of his philosophy, and that is what is nailed to the tree along with him.
>There’s an old saying, “What got you here won’t get you there.” It sounds trite and fits on a bumper sticker, but there’s still truth to it. Eventually, we may find the beliefs and skills that earned our success won’t achieve our greater goals.
>Conan’s single minded belief in his own strength allows him to survive the Wheel of Pain, but it doesn’t make it past the Tree of Woe. It is only by abandoning this philosophy that Conan can survive and achieve his final goal. This is amplified when the only way Conan escapes is by the help of his friends rescuing him from a certain death.
>The Riddle of Steel
>Everything that informs Conan’s attitude and actions is based around the Riddle of Steel, the legend of his people explaining the importance of steel to their barbarian culture.
>The film begins with Conan’s father telling him that steel was stolen from the gods by giants (a’la Prometheus), and after the battle of gods and giants it remained on earth for man to take. The story is concluded with this admonition to his young son:
>“The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one — no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts.
>[Points to sword]
>This you can trust.”
>This assertion is the philosophy that drives Conan’s actions in the first half of the film, it is also what allows him to become captured by Thulsa Doom.
>Doom recognizes within Conan the belief in the strength of steel and mocks him, saying that he too once sought the Riddle of Steel, only to become disenchanted.
>As any decent movie should, there’s a clear argument of philosophies, or worldview, between the hero and villain. Thulsa Doom doesn’t believe in the power of steel, he sees power as coming from the flesh. Taking credit for slaying Conan’s family, Thulsa insists that it is only because of the power within the flesh that the hero has made it even this far.
>“Yes! You know what it is, don’t you boy? Shall I tell you? It’s the least I can do. Steel isn’t strong, boy, flesh is stronger!…What is steel compared to the hand that wields it? Look at the strength in your body, the desire in your heart, I gave you this!”
>What then is the answer to the riddle? The only way Conan survives and eventually slays Thulsa doom is because of the aid of his friends. Is flesh then so much more powerful than forged steel?
Cont.
>The flesh is useful, it does take a hand to wield the sword against a foe, yet it will grow old and decay. Thulsa Doom, for all his power over people, couldn’t stop Conan from slaying him.
>To answer the riddle, Conan must see that while steel will grow brittle and the flesh will age, it is will and conviction that prevail. It is by will and belief that the flesh is motivated to wield the sword, to use that sword rightly and not against the weak and unfortunate.
>Steel is not elevated only through brute force, detailed craftsmanship, or even strength of your hand. Its power comes from the clear belief and conviction of the one who wields it.
I skipped a little upfront, recapping the movie plot, we know that. I am reminded of this:
>"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty" - Frank Herbert
>"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty" - Frank Herbert
this is my favourite Herberts quote
http://www.barbariankeep.com/ctbds.html
a much better write-up on the original fan website that's still around
Fantasy is such a hard genre to do right. Like single digit numbers of good (actual good, not so bad it is good) movies. The first Conan is in a different league than the other ones.
milius made the greatest movie of all time
>milius made the greatest movie of all time
Wot mate?
bumo
I can't believe cast iron / Barbarian movies general made it so far.
>I can't believe
>this is why you fail
Sorry, wrong movie. Much like the first movie, this thread has a wide appeal, from blood bath to philosophy. Is one of tge links above I got Oliver Stone's and Johm Milius' original scripts in PDF, printed single sided at work and bound together in a folder. I will read John's version for the comfy nostalgia and then compare it to Stone's literal 'verbatim stories from the books' version for fun. If anybody wants to do the same, just browse the links itt. Like most things, the meanings evolve as our personal perspectives grow. In youth, we seek and crave the action (and boobies), in maturity the meanings deepen and the richness of the stories becomes more complex for our mental palettes. I wind up watching the first one every year or two and the discourse itt will change my perspectives to the nuisances of the Hero's Journey. For more insight read Joseph Campbell's treatise of the same. And I always recommend Dante's 'Inferno'. But for all the philosophy you choose to seek out in life, never forget The Days of High Adventure!
The Cimmerians (Conan's People) made unmatched swords. This is why Thulsa Doom, whos over 1000 years old raided and killed them, for their weapons. Because their weapons were that good and good weapons meant more to him then anything.
Conan's sword is a fucking Atlantean Sword. And thats why it was able to smash through his fathers Cimmerian sword that was welded by Rexor. Not because it was made via open cast and cooled in the snow.
Just because the way Cimmerians make their swords doesn't make sense to you and your "science" doesn't make them inferior or wrong. You just don't understand. You don't know the ancient techniques and ways.
bump for later reading.
(op) it amazes me that people are still bumping this one
>no one mentioned crucible steel
This was the ideal weapon steel.
kinda sad innit
Question for any knife/sword fags in here, if someone were trained in knife fighting, would that translate to swordsmanship easily?
Kinda sorta but not really.
Swords are way longer and way heavier, thus translate into different techniques.
While you'd still adapt to swordsmanship faster than the regular normie, it'd still take you a while.
*Way longer and way heavier than a knife, I mean. Swords aren't really that heavy, certainly not as heavy as shitty movies would have you believe.
nah except in footwork/positioning you'd have zero or negative advantage over untrained person. plus probably dumber.
accurate.