Here in brazil there are a lot of restrictions on cartridges.
5.56 = muh evil military cartridge!!!!!
.22 LR = ok civilian cartridge
I wonder if it would be possible to have a .22 LR gun, that was built to tolerate much higher pressures.
And if it would be possible to achieve near 5.56 speeds within the .22 LR cartridge size.
>INB4: no guns
>yeah, no guns!
A 5.56 is essentially full of powder. It’s already a hot loaded 22 (with obvious differences in bullet weight and design).
Probably not simply because cramming a 55gr bullet into a .22LR casing and still having enough powder to get the needed muzzle velocity.
You would also want a longer barrel to get the most out of the powder you do have and a dummy thicc chamber and barrel to survive your overpressure.
Honestly the hard part is the gunpowder.
would some kind of explosive be a good substitute volume wise?
no that would be an absolutely retarded insane substitute but i want to see it happen
A highly overloaded .22lr wouldn't come close to half the power of 5.56 given its powder capacity limitation.
At max power it would rupture the case and be stuck in the chamber after the 1st shot.
I dont think you can fit that much powder into that small a case, OP. Not only is a 5.56 way longer, but its also necked down quite a bit
No, not even close. Not nearly enough case capacity, even with super lightweight .22lr projectiles. However .22WMR is a different story. You can get sort of close to the lower margins of 5.56 in a .22WMR. Not gonna match 5.56 with .22WMR but will get enough velocity and energy for coyote-sized game and even small deer if your shot placement is great and you feel like a cowboy. Will suffice for self defense in a pinch, too.
>.22WMR but will get enough velocity and energy for coyote-sized game and even small deer
Laws forbidding the use of .22 mag to hunt deer are fairly recent. In the 1980s & earlier it was a common round, not just "even small deer." I lived & hunted in Colorado and Utah and have a hard time naming more than about two hunters who DIDN'T take full-sized mule deer with a .22 mag. It's a hard-hitting, all-around cartridge. I would not recommend it for bear or a panther attack, but it has probably harvested more meat for the table than any cartridge other than .22 lr.
That's awesome, I don't doubt it either. I only said "small deer" because inevitably some anon would've called me a retard for thinking WMR could kill any larger than a coyote. Would WMR hunters back in the day aim for headshots on mule deer or go for the double-lung-heart like with standard calibers? genuinely curious.
Would love to read p on this, any suggestions?
Depends on the opportunity. Headshot is preferred if you can pop one in the brainstem. You can kill a moose with a .22 mag if you can do that. I've seen video of Alaskan homesteaders slaughtering an old horse for food with one .22 lr to the back of the head, which is effectively a moose.
However, getting the exact perfect angle for that isn't easy, especially hunting in the wild. I've known old hunters who took the heart shot when they didn't want to pass up the opportunity. Old fudd I used to hunt with would take them through the eye; he felt a head shot with any round was the preferred way to go if you could get that shot. Many of the older guys I've known took their first deer when they were about 12 years old and didn't use anything more powerful than a .22 mag until late high school. Some of those guys barely knew what beef or pork tasted like. Their families needed meat, they went out and brought back meat.
There are a couple youtube videos that demonstrate .22 mag is accurate and lethal out to 300 yards for human-sized animals. Not the first choice for that range, but entirely reasonable if you are experienced and good shooting out to that range. When you hunt to keep your family fed, you tend to be able to drill a quarter out at 100 to 150 yards, which is luxurious plenty of reach for nearly all hunting in the Americas.
Neat. 22WMR is a rad round
In a similar anecdote, 22 mag is virtually the only caliber used for culling cattle, which is something when you consider how fuckin big a cow is
I'm well aware of what a controlled and short distance affair culling is, but I notice they still don't use 22lr, which implies to me there were a significant number of angry cows whose skulls deflected those
22lr is used extremely commonly what the fuck are you talking about?
>Nobody uses 22lr to kill bulls
are all the youtube videos of that fake?
those are all WMRs
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Wait so they're *all* lying? Why? What do they have to gain?
>Headshot is preferred
You stupid motherfucker. Why are americans like this?
What if you used a high explosive instead of smokeless powder?
Do not do that. Gunpowder works fundamentally differently than explosives. It's the relative slow-burn of gunpowder that makes it optimal for propelling a projectile, as it pushes the projectile longer. Also, explosives will likely damage if not completely destroy your gun. Look up pressure curves.
You’re dealing with a cartridge case not designed for high pressure. It’s thin and will flow a lot before rupturing. You’d have to design a new cartridge that just happens to have the same external dimensions.
Why would you think that was possible
5.56 has about eight times the space for powder that .22lr does. That's a huge difference, and fully compensating for it with a wildly more powerful powder may be hypothetically plausible as some laboratory experiment, but it's not feasible on the side of someone wanting a gun with more oomph.
But if you're dealing with them banning "military" cartridges, that usually isn't particularly correlated with powerful cartridges, just common and affordable ones. There are dozens (if not hundreds) of rifle calibers with no relation to any military that are much deadlier than a hot loaded .22lr.
Can you buy 22wmr?
Even when pressure is not a constraint, and efficiency goes higher, without resorting to a energy dense, more gas producing powder and coils, raw energy inputs is limited by case volume.
20 inch thick barrel.
Powder is straight up TNT
Bullet exits as molten slag.
Energy weapon
>Bullet exits as molten slag.
OKay. I'm on board. I want to see some high-speed video of that slicing through ballistics gel and tank armor. Maybe use C4 as the main propellent.
What if someone made a dual mag gun?
In one mag you have the regular .22 LR.
In the other mag you have a .22 LR blank.
When you fire there is a very small delay between firing the real .22 LR and the blank.
There is a tesla valve to prevent air from going to the wrong way.
This way you have 2x gunpoweder, or 2x the speed.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a21631/forgotten-weapons-americas-first-assault-rifle/
You're not getting anywhere close to 5.56 speed or weight. Even Mach 2 would require unsafe loads.
There have to be stronger civilian cartridges dude, What do people hunt with?
Remedial reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number
What?
OP, your solution should be volume of fire rather than the power of the individual cartridge. You may not kill someone with a single round of 22lr, but you probably would with a 5-10 round burst. Doesn't have to be full auto either, just rapid semi-automatic
Based but use something w a shoulder stock
Semi auto rapid fire bursts work super well
>Doesn't have to be full auto either, just rapid semi-automatic
Seconding everything this guy said, but also OP, look into getting a 10/22, some high-cap mags, and a binary trigger for it if you can
22 mag can and has been loaded to 120kpsi and squeezebored to 4000 fps
Just go the Indonesian Coastal guard way and get a gun in .222 Remington (they bought Valmet M76 in .222 Remington because 5.56 was an evil military cartridge and thus unobtanium for coast guard), it should be fine since it's a civilian cartridge.
Like everyone else said, you won't have enough powder. Even if you built a gun that could survive 400k PSI, you'd probably only get 1500ish fps with a 55gr bullet. Case capacity is the most important aspect of bullet velocity with pressure only being a secondary factor to how fast it can go.