Can we all agree katanas are the best sword design? Theyre thick, stabby as frick and have a tempered edge.

Can we all agree katanas are the best sword design? They’re thick, stabby as frick and have a tempered edge.

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Can we all agree katanas are the best sword design?
    Then why arent they used in fencing? The peak of duelling technique and strategy?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Mmm, perhaps. But can blade of west do this?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Grorious Japanees butteru knifu

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fencers focus on technique and not force. Their small muscles would get tired of swinging around the heavier katana. They want the duel to last longer for entertainment reasons, so they use much lighter swords. If you're simply trying to kill someone quickly, then use a katana.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fencing is the peak of being a homosexual, only nerds think fencing is cool

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Can we all agree katanas are the best sword design?
      No, Kreigsmesser is better. Has hand guard and a pommel.

      I'm more partial to the Jian

      Based and Nobel Gentlemen pilled

      CHADchetes are still being used to this day

      A moronic question but would you consider Cutlasses and Machetes to be of the same lineage?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Is that man 3ft tall?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because fencing is a product of European army traditions from the napoleonic era you dumb moron

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        it's also super gay.
        Not quirky and fun decorator or musician kind either.
        The gross kind

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Modern fencing is just tag with pointy, flexible sticks. Kendo is still pretty manly.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >heavy sword barely longer than a dagger

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Heavy brain barely smarter than a labrat
      An odachi can be almost 6ft in length

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >10kg

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >tempered edge.
    So like most swords since the early iron age?This was done while japan was still in the stone age.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He probably meant "differential tempering".

      >most swords since the early iron age
      Funny enough even during the 14th century tempered swords were common.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        during the 14th century in Europe untempered swords*, they just let them cool in the air.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Differential tempering was already done by the etruscans, it's not new

        >during the 14th century in Europe untempered swords*, they just let them cool in the air.
        Some yes but they definetly knew how to quench and it was done since antiquity

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          quench =/= (quench) tempering
          A lot of late medieval swords still were soft trash because they're doing completely wrong. The 2 steps and controlled quench and tempering treatment was invented much later.

          >Differential tempering was already done by the etruscans, it's not new
          So? equaling the result just because they have the same name/principle is stupid soviet-thinking. "heat treatment is heat treatment"

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            (quench and) tempering*

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >A lot of late medieval swords still were soft trash because they're doing completely wrong
            That's because everyone and their mother made swords in Europe. If japan approached anything close to such scale they'd make a lot of shit ones as well, in addition to the ones that they did make.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >A lot of late medieval swords still were soft trash because they're doing completely wrong.
            You are wrong; what they did was usually slack-tempering or self tempering where they cooled only the superficial parts and left enought internal it to accoplish the process and this was done by the romans already

            >So? equaling the result just because they have the same name/principle is stupid soviet-thinking. "heat treatment is heat treatment"
            Schizo wordsalad

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >internal it
              Internal heat
              The quality definetly varied but it doesn't mean that they weren't capable of making high quality blades

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >A lot of late medieval swords still were soft trash because they're doing completely wrong.
                You are wrong; what they did was usually slack-tempering or self tempering where they cooled only the superficial parts and left enought internal it to accoplish the process and this was done by the romans already

                >So? equaling the result just because they have the same name/principle is stupid soviet-thinking. "heat treatment is heat treatment"
                Schizo wordsalad

                nice backpedaling moron

                Go and read DOIs about how shitty and uneven was the quality of swords, specially the "heat treatments". Good and controlled heat treatments weren't common up to the hundred years war as early.

                >Schizo wordsalad
                Says the moron that don't understand the differences just because there're called the same.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The quality varing over a continent doesn't negate that there were also quality weaponds what dumb argument even is that?

        • 3 weeks ago
          KM

          quench =/= (quench) tempering
          A lot of late medieval swords still were soft trash because they're doing completely wrong. The 2 steps and controlled quench and tempering treatment was invented much later.

          >Differential tempering was already done by the etruscans, it's not new
          So? equaling the result just because they have the same name/principle is stupid soviet-thinking. "heat treatment is heat treatment"

          Quench and temper was known, but it can be a rather tricky thing in practice. First the quench may crack or shatter the blade. Then if you don't temper it quite enough it'll end up catastrophically brittle But if you temper it a bit too much then it can end up softer than the air cooled blade instead. So with a lot of people prefer their weapons to be reliably decent performers over possibly great performers that may also just break when you need them (getting people to pay enough for your good blades to cover the cost of those lost in quenching might also have been an issue) simple air cooling or a slack quench (where the blade is allowed to cool down a bit between austenitizing and quenching) cooling were the norm until perhaps somewhere in the 15th century.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >So with a lot of people prefer their weapons to be reliably decent
            Yeah also this basically only applies to larger swords; knifes and daggers were very commonly queched and tempered probably because the smaller size reduced problems

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >This was done while japan was still in the stone age.
      Anon, if they're working with iron, what technological age do you think they are in?

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    yeah yeah grorious nihon steel
    read thibault loser

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >katana thread

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm more partial to the Jian

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I'm more partial to the Jian

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous
    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      How many wars won?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Disgusting.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Get on my level, tryhard.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    my buddy got me a mall ninja tier (plastic handguard and all) katana for my birthday
    i am a neet with more time than money
    is it possible to sharpen it into a functional weapon or would that be a waste of time?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >is it possible to sharpen it into a functional weapon or would that be a waste of time?
      Well you can sharpen it. Keep /k/ in the loop on your progress and how your 'sword' is 'improving'.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        how do you sharpen a sword so its any good?
        >t. cutlass haver

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Use a whetstone

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >is it possible to sharpen it into a functional weapon or would that be a waste of time?
      Well you can sharpen it. Keep /k/ in the loop on your progress and how your 'sword' is 'improving'.

      just in case one of you still care, that blade hasn't been tempered for shit. if you're going to try to sharpen it, first melt it down and reforge the damned thing. the metal might actually still be better than what was used in Japan in the Samurai era, so simply getting close to a blade shape and tempering that would be an improvement.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's most likely 1020 low carbon steel which can not be tempered or sharpened. The blade needs to be made out of 1045 steel for it to be capable of being heat treated and sharpened.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Φ

        Few to no swords at most mall stores and certainly none with plastic guards, are carbon. They're usually 400 or sometimes even 300 series, stainless.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Odds are it's inherently unsafe to use, so sharpening it will simply make it an even worse thing to swing around.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    CHADchetes are still being used to this day

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Can we all agree katanas are the best sword design? They’re thick, stabby as frick and have a tempered edge.
    Lmao.
    Not even Japs agree. As soon as they started to modernize in the last third of the 19th century, they too adopted European style sabers.
    >but muh Shin Gunto
    Unlike the Type 32 saber, they were never intended to be used in combat, they were status symbols more than anything else, aside from using them to execute a couple thousands chinks in Nanjing for the lulz.

    Also, as soon as Japs copied European blade manufacturing in the late 19th century, they have abandoned differential heat treatment in favor of spring tempering, something that Nips failed to discover for centuries, even though it was common knowledge in Europe since the 1600s. The reason why they never discovered spring tempering was because their steel was shit quality, that's why they had to use differential heat treatment to create a hard but brittle cutting edge, which chipped away like glass upon impact, while the blade of European sabers/swords only got deformed, which could have been easily repaired.
    All in all, the katana was the product of being isolated from more technologically and militarily advanced people for centuries, while lacking good quality steel and the will to adopt better weapons.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Cavalry sabres would naturally be preferred for cavalry over the katana, which wasn’t designed for modern era charging cavalry assaults. That specifically is a silly argument.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >steel was shit

      Fricksake, not this again. The problem with nip steel is that until the latter half of the 19th century they were using ironsands in bloomeries which meant that the problem was consistency and not quality. The good steel they had was just fine (and the ironsands they smelted were also pretty good) but there wasn't much of it; the bits around the edge of the bloom were high-quality sword steel, past that the steel rapidly progressed from "also good" to "barely steel" and most of the bloom was cast and pig iron. This was also exacerbated prior to the 17th century or so when they started getting better at forced induction.

      >that's why they had to use differential heat treatment to create a hard but brittle cutting edge,
      No, they didn't "have to". They intentionally did that because the odds of a sword being used against someone in metal armor were fairly slim even on a battlefield and having a hard, razor-sharp edge is a pretty good idea when you're probably not going to have to penetrate anything more substantial than clothing - as was the case when it was carried as a personal sidearm, like the vast majority of them were. If you look at the heads of polearms (you know, the weapons that were actually intended to be used in war and probably against people with some form of protection) you don't see the same construction - why is that, if they "had to" make blades like that to compensate for poor steel? Pic rel, an 18th century spearhead.

      >which chipped away like glass upon impact,
      Again: not true. Certainly somewhat more brittle and readily chipped than European swords but not uniquely fragile.

      >while the blade of European sabers/swords only got deformed, which could have been easily repaired.
      Wew lad.
      https://www.thearma.org/essays/damagededge.htm

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      iron sands are higher purity than mined iron

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Can we all agree
    you fricking moron

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Best sword design against 4 feet tall nips wearing bathrobes and bamboo armor? Sure

    • 3 weeks ago
      Φ

      Most Yoroi were iron and steel and silk. you couldnt really pick a tougher thing to cut through.

      Fencing is fricking moronic. It has about as much battlefield application as ACTUAL chess. Also, Kenjutsu (not fricking Kendo) has duels just as intellectual and strategic as fencing.

      Katanas aren't superior. There is no "superior". that's not how this works.

      also, a good Viking period sword is basically just two katanas glued together, from the diff temper, to the pattern welding, to the mune/fuller, to the niku/convex geometry. It's pretty neat.

      Almost as if killing someone with a yard long piece of metal is as universal as the construction of the human body.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >yeah 2034-10
    >people still falling for katana b8
    ishiggydiggy

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ¿Dónde están las mujeres asiáticas?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >wokou
      >1582 "samurai"

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >wokou
      >1582 "samurai"

      I'm spanish and they were japanese pirates, the weapons, armor and training might be different from samurais

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fukuda bay was kino too

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >breaks your blade in half
    >doesnt need 10 years of autist training
    >even looks cooler at the same time

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I prefer just a regular Saber like you'd find on a pirate ship. Or anything that can double as tools. Tools are useful.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The knightly (arming) sword is named such for a reason, it was actually carried and used by knights in all contexts for longer than the more specialized weapons that followed while still persisting in some form in later years.
    It has a much higher skill floor than other swords to boot.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Φ

      https://i.imgur.com/w0cEKZ7.jpg

      >breaks your blade in half
      >doesnt need 10 years of autist training
      >even looks cooler at the same time

      the idea of unskilled sword use is nonsense. Any sword used by anyone trained beats any sword used by anyone untrained, period.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Hes not talking about guy with training beats guy with no training.
        Hes talking about needing more training to utilize a double edged weapon properly vs say a machete.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >the idea of unskilled sword use is nonsense. Any sword used by anyone trained beats any sword used by anyone untrained, period.
        This is wrong. French duelists in particular noted it was not reliable to rely on training and technique against the English, who often just swung wildly but very effectively.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >it was not reliable to rely on training and technique against the English, who often just swung wildly but very effectively.
          Maybe they should have trained and developed techniques that are useful against someone other than themselves then. It used to be common for some schools to set up a trainee against a drunk/untrained aggressive opponent to teach them how to handle those.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Those names were given to it hundreds of years after it was in use, and swords like that were carried by people from various social classes.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sword console wars are even more moronic than gun console wars

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No.
    They're possibly the most beautiful swords ever created, but they aren't the most effective. Tis sadge, but they just aren't as good as they deserve to be.
    For artistic value, i would absolutely want a katana over any other sword(barr historical swords, i.e I'd obviously take genghis khan's pocket knife instead) to just have, but if i need to fight with it probably take a longsword, or an arming sword of i can use a shield too.

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >unironic katana homosexualry
    Is this some kind of slide thread?

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If your only criteria is which one you'd most want to bring to a fight(assuming its on foot and not as a sidearm), choosing anything but a giant euro greatsword is moronic

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Can we all agree katanas are the best sword design?
    No.

    >They’re thick
    Compared to a kitchen knife, maybe.

    >stabby as frick
    So are soap prison shivs.

    >and have a tempered edge.
    A. One edge. Singular.

    >picrel, reality angers the simple-minded

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >stupid gif

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Cry harder, weeb.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Salty weeb

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Mad, I understand. As I stated, reality angers the simple-minded. That longsword wasn't even in motion, could you imagine if it were? If that was full swing vs. Full swing, that Katana would have been shards.

        Frick outta here, with your jap sword-worship. Katana is the confederate flag of Swords.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Cry harder, weeb.

          >Salty weeb

          I don't think that katanas are actually good but that gif is moronic and all of you're the worthless and acephalic hive-mind meatbots, keep eating turds morons

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That gif clearly illustrates the point that a katana, being made in Japan where there's historically lower quality iron, has a soft core and is not springy like an european sword - which was entirely made with high quality tempered steel.
            If you bend an european sword, it springs back into place.
            If you bend a katana, it stays bent.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >If you bend a katana, it stays bent.

              [...]
              [...]
              I don't think that katanas are actually good but that gif is moronic and all of you're the worthless and acephalic hive-mind meatbots, keep eating turds morons

              https://i.imgur.com/Eb4X9Nu.jpg

              Can we all agree katanas are the best sword design? They’re thick, stabby as frick and have a tempered edge.

              Stay bent, Katana-gays.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              No current "replica" are useful to compare historical swords, the metallurgy is simply too different.
              Anyone with half-functional-neuron and experience would know that support points greatly alter the result, that's why the gif is deeply moronic.

              PS. most katanas faced "rapiers" with far better metallurgy because their design was stuck in the Sengoku Era, they're status symbols rather than useful weapons against peer opponents, most of the improvements were in the furniture rather than metallurgy.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >No current "replica" are useful to compare historical swords
                Dog, "replicas" are made with BETTER steel and MODERN smithing techniques. Modern replicas are better than historic blades in EVERY CONCEIVABLE WAY.
                Historically, the katana has never even conquered another nation, outside of itself.
                Take the L, and frick off.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Dog, "replicas" are made with BETTER steel and MODERN smithing techniques. Modern replicas are better than historic blades in EVERY CONCEIVABLE WAY.
                yes moron, any 1045 with correct tempering is far superior than most middle ages and renaissance swords. Pre industrial era people didn't understand even the fundamentals of heat treatments.
                But sword designs were influenced by the metallurgy, obviously, if you ignore that you're doing meaningless comparisons.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Historically, the katana has never even conquered another nation, outside of itself.
                Bro, your history reps...

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You know they lost,right?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, and they fricking lost at that too.

                Katana=Confederate Flag

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >No current "replica" are useful to compare historical swords
                Replicas are better than historical in terms of materials. Maybe not in proportions and balance, but that has no weight on the matter we are discussing.

                >support points greatly alter the result
                Yes, that is why it's useful to see the continuation of the gif and watch how an european swords behaves in the same condition.

                >Pre industrial era people didn't understand even the fundamentals of heat treatments
                Wrong, ignorant and gay.
                The celts were using the same Japanese technique of folding steel by 2000 b.C.
                They even got to the point of twisting two helicoidal patterns and then flattening them together.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Replicas are better than historical in terms of materials.
                Which makes any result meaningless... The metallurgy and designs aren't isolated things...

                > same condition.
                As above, idc about some conditions that wouldn't happen irl.

                >Wrong, ignorant and gay.
                Ok moron, go and read some DOIs. not wasting time with u

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Errata: I meant 700 b.C., 2000 years earlier than Kamakura period.

                >Replicas are better than historical in terms of materials.
                Which makes any result meaningless... The metallurgy and designs aren't isolated things...

                > same condition.
                As above, idc about some conditions that wouldn't happen irl.

                >Wrong, ignorant and gay.
                Ok moron, go and read some DOIs. not wasting time with u

                >Which makes any result meaningless
                No, it compares a katana in the best possible condition to an european sword in the best possibile condition.

                >idc about some conditions that wouldn't happen irl
                lol what the frick are you on about? like LAB conditions? Have you ever heard about the scientific method?

                I don't understand why you cling so much to the idea of the beautiful katana. Reality it's simple: Japanese swordsmiths did NOT use the techniques of heat treatment that the Europeans did.
                Fact.
                Either accept the harsh reality or go suck wiener.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >No, it compares a katana in the best possible condition to an european sword in the best possibile condition.
                Meaningless.

                Different limitations alters the design in different ways.
                I tired of your empty brain.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Japanese swordsmiths did NOT use the techniques of heat treatment that the Europeans did.
                No, they did. Europeans used differential hardening on their swords for centuries just like the Japanese.

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Hai OP-sama. Mochi mochi tbh.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Inquisitor Weebo?

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >takes 10 minutes to learn how to use
    >kills you with 3 feet to spare
    Nothing personnel kiddo

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      polearms are the best!
      for me, it's the halberd

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I am partial to a lucerne

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I genuinely would trust a cavalry Saber over a katana

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ok so, if the iron sands are really high purity. what was the cause of japan having a reputation for shit iron and having shit iron during WWII? was it just a low yield/not having enough of it issue?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's what I was also wondering what I gathered is that they used to get iron from korea in the past so it's possible the idea of low quality iron came from this period when they weren't that skilled in producing and working it, that kinda explains it, at least for antiquity

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >what was the cause of japan having a reputation for shit iron and having shit iron during WWII?
      They were less than a century past their medieval times.
      You can make a good sword out of plain, simple carbon steel. But WW2 armour plate, tank tracks, etc? Now you need a bunch of alloying elements, so you can be desperately lacking in your ability to make what is now "good steel" no matter how much and how good iron ore you have.
      Getting bombed likely didn't help things. Add in wartime shortages, rushed production... In the Japanese sword world the WW2 production is generally held to be 99% utter shite.
      And the point of comparison for them in this context is the US, at the time the greatest industrial power by far on the face of the planet.
      And frankly a bit of it is likely just old propaganda. The west had a really, really hard time accepting that anything Japanese could ever be up to their standards back then. For example it took quite a few US ships just blowing up for no good reason before the notion got though that perhaps they did have a longer range torpedo than anyone else.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >ok so, if the iron sands are really high purity. what was the cause of japan having a reputation for shit iron and having shit iron during WWII? was it just a low yield/not having enough of it issue?
      Three things. First, Japan wasn't USING their ironsands. Bloomery steel virtually went extinct in the 19th century when the nips started industrializing and modernizing after their civil war. When they could import high-quality iron and coke from abroad (one of the reasons they were so keen on owning Manchuria) this worked out well enough as their metallurgy was first world-tier and they had help from Germany but during WWII, that supply dried up and they had to increasingly rely on their native iron ore (which was dogshit) and inferior coke because you can't just switch from ore to sand like flipping a switch. Second, as far as steel is concerned they had a hard time getting their hands on alloying materials like manganese, molybdenum, tungsten, chromite, etc. Third, they had manpower and skill issues. Japan was getting pretty desperate by the end of the war and lost a lot of its skilled workers to the military.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >you can't just switch from ore to sand
        To clarify: that sand is also iron ore (magnetite specifically), it just comes in very small chunks. But while it's chemically much the same, swapping out larger chunks for fine grains messes up the gas flow in a modern blast furnace. Thus the problems swapping out rock ore for sand ore. You'd have to develop a process of sintering the sand into suitably sized pellets first.

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All weebs need a bullet

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm really starting to detest YouTube.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Starting?
      homie it’s been a cesspool for more than a decade now, I hope another Iranian schizo qt will do the needful.

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