Can someone explain to me, in simple terms, how this massive hunk of metal is invisible to radars?

Can someone explain to me, in simple terms, how this massive hunk of metal is invisible to radars?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    shaping and coatings

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah but radars fire electrons at the speed of light and can even detect clouds and tiny birds from hundreds of kilometers away. They can punch deep through the Earth and tell us the composition of something. Yet, it has difficulty seeing a huge piece of metal flying through the sky?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >it has difficulty seeing a huge piece of metal flying through the sky
        science, I wouldnt worry about it

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        They don't fire electrons, they fire photons. Firing an electron at the speed of light is also impossible, being that only massless particles can reach it with a non-infinite amount of energy.

        Basic radar is looking for photons that have bounced off something. Think of it like using a torch in the dark. Can't see anything unless you shine a light at it.

        Anti-radar i.e. stealth, is achieved by making sure that the light that gets shone at you doesn't make it back to the observer. This means using angled surfaces that reflect photons away from the observer, and using materials that absorb light.

        In our "shining a torch in the dark" analogy, we do things like wear all black because it absorbs the light.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Extremely basic radar theory: ground based radars use electromagnetic signals to detect objects by "bouncing" the radar waves off of objects; the radar wave travels from the emitter to an object (like an airplane), and a portion of the wave "bounces" off said object and is reflected back to the radar receiver. The returned signal is then used to determine the objects range, bearing, and altitude relative to the radar.

        With stealth shaping, more of the electromagnetic radiation is deflected away from the receiver. The F-117 the first operational example of stealth, and the reason it so so angular compared to B-2s and F-35s is because the calculations were done without the assistance of computers... pure human ingenuity. Now, "stealth" means a lot of things, but what it doesn't mean is "invisible." Stealth designs are optimized for certain aspects (usually nose on) and frequencies. Generally, lower frequency radars are used in early warning capacities, covering a large area and providing a general location for airborne radar tracks. Fire control radars, the ones used to guide missiles to targets, tend to operate in higher frequency bands. Different frequencies and wavelengths will interact differently when they reach the plane.

        To further reduce the radar return of stealth aircraft, some countries use radar absorbent materials, which do exactly what it sounds like they do, they absorbed the electromagnetic radiation from the radar's emitter the same way a rock absorbs the heat of the sun.

        Ultimately, for a radar to "see" an aircraft, the return needs to be strong enough to exceed the noise floor (the total amount of ambient radiation detected by the receiver at any given time). Minimize the aircrafts radar return enough and it becomes indistinguishable from the background.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Wouldn’t those coatings get fricked over by sunlight too? They are absorbing photons right? So absorbing light is part of it?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You can think of them as being black in the radar wave spectrum. You can easily make materials with different colors in the visible light spectrum, same deal here

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Wouldn’t those coatings get fricked over by sunlight too?
            No. Materials can reflect some wavelengths while absorbing others. That's how color works. When you paint something you've applied a coating which absorbs some parts of the visual spectrum while reflecting others. There are also things like "hot and cold mirrors". A "cold mirror" reflects light but allows heat (infrared radiation) to pass right through it. A "hot mirror" reflects heat but allows visible light to pass through it. One practical function of a so-called "hot mirror" is in a movie or slide projector, where it allows the light through but reflects back the heat from the lamp so it doesn't melt the film.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >based effortposter spending this much time on a shithead
              well as collateral damage at least I'm edified
              thanks

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Absorbing photons makes something black. Does everything painted black get fricked over by sunlight?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I wonder how much the coating can absorb in a given timeframe before it gets saturated.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The radar-absorbent material (RAM) coating on the F-35 and other stealth aircraft doesn't actually get saturated in the way a sponge gets saturated with water.

            Here's a clearer explanation of how RAM works:
            Radar waves hit the aircraft.
            The RAM coating is designed to absorb some of the radar energy and convert it into heat, which is then dissipated.
            Some of the radar energy is also reflected in a way that scatters the signal, making it weaker and harder to detect by radar.

            The effectiveness of RAM depends on several factors, including:
            The type of radar wave (different frequencies are absorbed differently)
            The composition and thickness of the RAM coating
            The angle at which the radar wave hits the aircraft

            There isn't a specific amount of radar energy the coating can absorb before it stops working. However, RAM coatings can be less effective over time due to wear and tear from weather exposure or mechanical stress. Maintaining the F-35's stealth performance is an important part of its operation.

            Here are some additional points to consider:
            Stealth is just one aspect of an aircraft's survivability. The F-35's design also incorporates features to reduce its radar signature, such as its shape and the placement of its engines.
            Radar technology is constantly evolving, and so are radar-absorbent materials. The exact composition of RAM coatings is classified information, but there is ongoing research to develop new and more effective materials.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Quite a lot, actually. When photons are absorbed they tend to turn into heat so the upper limit to radar absorbed is how much wattage you can put on target before it melts. For an aircraft at cruising speed you've got hundred mile per hour winds to cool the plane against a microwave oven with delusions of being a death ray.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          i get how the shaping can deflect radar away from the emitter, but what if the receiver wasnt located near the emitter? wouldnt that completely negate any shaping?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That is a viable option, but requires one radar emitter to be paired with many spread out radar receivers because if the receivers don't know when the emitter is sending a signal they can't tell a radar signal they see is actually from their emitter. This requires a much higher infrastructure and material investment to connect all the radars, when a traditional radar has the emitter and receiver together in the same equipment. So you have the trade off of building many normal radar systems vs one large distributed system. The both will use almost the same amount of material and space, but the spread out system has the achilles heel of the emitter that is linked to all receivers being the point that will be targeted by Anti radar weapons. So for the same cost you can have many individual systems that are independent vs one large system with a central weakpoint.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I wonder if satellites would work as the receiver or transmitter? A ground station transmits a radar beam into the sky the satellite in LEO is expecting to receiver X amount of a return but instead it gets Y. That would be a pretty good tip off something is there it would kinda be like the Bat Signal. A plane shaped hole so to speak on the receiving end.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                A satellite won't have the power output to be a useful radar emitter for tracking planes, even as a radar receiver they're too far away and how many satellites would need to be in orbit to make a consistent presence over an area that you want defended. That radar idea only makes sense if the emitter and receiving satellite happen to be perfectly aligned with a stealth plane in between them which would only be possible for an instant unless there are so many satellites in orbit that it's practically a solid wall in orbit.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The sr 71 is stealth

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >radars fire electrons
        no they don't, stop thinking about radars, you aren't equipped to rationalize their actual operation

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        radars have to filter out clouds and tiny birds anon.
        so if the plane looks like a tiny bird....

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Sounds easy enough to tell the algorithm to tell to filter the tiny birds while keeping the tiny birds flying at Mach whatever.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Unless the F-35 is deliberately flying slow. Slow is actually more fuel efficient at lower altitudes. Low cycle radars also won't recognize the F-35 as the same contact. Low frequency systems will tend to blur a contact, making it easy to lose track of them in a cloud.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >deep through the Earth
        If you're thinking of GPR that can only penetrate 100 feet or so. Not super deep.
        Not even going to touch on the electrons part since I'm a geologist and not a chemist.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >electrons
        gr8 b8

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          electrons are just goth photons though

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's not invisible to radar if it gets close enough, like 30 to 40 miles.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Exactly it can sneak up and destroy an air defense radar before it can fire on the F-35 it's not magic. During the Kosovo War an F-117 was shot down by the Yugoslav Army unit (the 3rd Battalion of the 250th Air Defense Missile Brigade cause it was flying a predictable route. Setting up air defense traps is key to defeating a stealth equipped modern air force. A dude sitting in a lawn chair in the middle of the desert with a MANPAD could shoot down a F-35 if it was baited to be in the area at a certain time.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Not only that, it was detected exactly when it opened and closed it's bomb bay (a process that takes 700-1300 miliseconds) and the soul reason why the Yugo radars could've generated this much noise while searching for it is because they knew that there would be no SEAD for a few hours, even with such overwhelming luck and extraordinary negligence on the side of the US, the bomber still hit it's target

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Radar works by sending a signal, bouncing off the object, and the bounce back being detected.

    F22, F35, and to a lesser extent F117, Su57, J-20, etc are designed to prevent the radar being bounced back to the detector. in the case of the F117, that was by it being angled in particular ways to minimise how much bounced right back, in later designs, its material coatings which make the return much less than the same shape only covered in paint.

    you cant reduce the amount of radar radio waves that are being sent out by the other guy. But you can reduce the amount that's bounced back off yourself.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >you can't reduce the amount of radar radio waves that are being sent out by the other guy

      Certainly not with that attitude.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    fm

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Its not completely invisible probably but every radar guided weapon works on a lock on system, so if the plane drops in and out of radar detection because its flying and changing directions constantly and its not symmetrical shaped eitherway; then you can't fire a radar guided missile at it even if you can kind of see it on your screen because its not locked on. You're stuck with within visual range shit like infrared but the F-35 just mogs you BVR with its own radar

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Forgot to add but radar guided missiles need up to date information for targeting, air is frick huge and you're trying to hit something at high speeds. We haven't invented a missile where you slap a camera at the tip and have it AI guided, so most modern missiles need up to date information on its target to calculate a course. Inaccurate information makes the missile do its namesake: miss

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >he doesn't know

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Bitches dont know bout my Skyborg

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >We haven't invented a missile where you slap a camera at the tip and have it AI guided
        That's basically how heat seeking missiles work, isn't it? Except the "AI" is some Cold War hack job running on a pocket calculator.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          nta
          yes it is, but heat seeking missiles inherently only work at very short ranges compared to modern radar guided ones (around 1/10, but nobody really knows the actual effective ranges of cutting edge missiles)
          this is what gives the F-35 the edge, since due to its advanced IRST sensors it can reliably launch AIM-120D's from bvr, while its stealth characteristics make it extremely hard for it to be effectively targeted itself until it gets into IR-homed missile range (by which point the chink- or slavshit bandit is long dead)

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Modern ones are something like that. Historically, the "camera", if you can call it that, was a single-pixel sensor, with an optical system sweeping it over a cone in front of the missile. So there's no actual image of what's in front of the missile, just an intensity signal varying up and down as the optical system rotates.
          In the earliest, simplest systems (which did not become operational air to air missiles), the optical system is just a mask that blocks off half the sensor's view, so the signal is high when the target is in the unblocked side, and low when it's blocked; you just steer the missile in the direction the sensor was seeing when the peak signal occurred.
          This had a lot of problems, and would be improved with more complicated masks and more advanced optical systems that produced a more complicated signal, and required more electronics to make sense of the signal and control the missile, but still for a long time, it was a single signal, from a single sensor; not any kind of imaging.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    https://www.arcjournals.org/pdfs/ijrseee/v4-i2/3.pdf
    Read and do math. Fun fact your home PC can generate an RCS that can beat most AAs, though the modern age AAs have changed a fair bit

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because the radar POV is different. Like taking photos in the dark to mirrors (most large objects looks 'silver mirror' to radars).
    Pic rel.
    If you remove the brightest spot and any imperfection/diffuse reflection you ends with a 'stealth' object.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    it’s a little something called American super science, look it up sweetie

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's not. You've been lied to.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    ping-----ping-----DINK--------P-pong?................ninp......ngip...........nigp...........HUH?

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >how this massive hunk of metal is invisible to radars?
    It's on the ground and broken.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The secret is they lather it up in hog grease. Just imagine trying to hold onto that slippery little bird once it's been good and greased. Radar just can't keep a grip on it, pops right through the wavelengths.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    imagine you're a blind guy (radar) and you constantly throw a ball (waves) in front of you to know whether there's a wall (plane) or not

    Now, most planes are like a straight wall, once you throw the ball at them at the right direction they will bounce the ball back to you. But throwing the ball at a stealth plane it's like trowing it againt a weirdly shaped wall, you don't know if there's a wall there because the shape makes the ball bounce to another direction.

    Also, stealth planes are not only helped by their shape but also the material they're made of. So add to the equation the fact that the wall it's not only weirdly shaped, but also made of a soft material, like sponge, that absorbs most of the ball's energy

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      based explanation actually

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Better:

        Radar beam bounce off thing come back, see thing

        Radar beam bounce off thing no come back, no see thing

        Better still:

        >simple terms
        Majiks. Like Willow on Buffy.

        >Willow on Buffy

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      terrible picture. you drew a right angle as an example of deflecting away. but right angles literally deflect straight back to you

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >why is dark matter impossible to see?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This man has lot his flashlight. Take him to the quartermaster.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      because dark matter is a meme theory.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    it's smooth, the radar slide right off

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Stealth planes aren't quite invisible, but they're very good at hiding from radar. Here's the gist:

    Shape matters: Imagine throwing a ball at a mirror. It bounces straight back! Stealth planes have weird, angled shapes that deflect radar waves away from the radar source, like skipping the ball off a pebble.
    Special coatings:These planes are covered in special materials that absorb some of the radar waves, like a sponge soaking up water. This reduces the amount of signal bouncing back to the radar.

    By combining these techniques, stealth aircraft become much harder to detect on radar. They're still there, but they appear much fainter, like a whisper compared to a shout. This makes them much harder for enemies to spot in the air.

    F-117 and F-35 are just two examples of stealth aircraft that use these techniques!

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >throwing a ball at a mirror. It bounces straight back!
      ackshually it'd probabbly just cave and crack the mirror which absorbs all of its kinetic energy and so the ball falls straight to the ground where it hit.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The skin is more likely to absorb radar waves than bounce them and the shape directs the few waves that bounce away from the sender.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Stealth works by abusing the manner by which radars see things. Radars shoot radar waves out in an arc and picks up on the waves that get reflected back to it. By calculating the exactly amount of waves over time it can figure out that it’s looking at a plane. Stealth works by using geometry to reflect most radar waves into directs away from the direction they originated and the use of radar-absorbing material (RAM) to absorb most of the wave so that only a small part of the wave gets reflected back out at all. The net result of combining stealth geometry and RAM is a plane which reflects only a tiny fraction of the radar wave back to the radar, making it really hard for the radar to determine what it’s looking at. It’s not invisible but rather just hard to see.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Radar is fake but most planes aren't redpilled enough

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    And another thing which /k/ is often unaware of which makes Western gear so much better is LPI (Low-Probability of Intercept) radar — basically stealth. AESA radars using a verity of advanced techniques working together (super high bandwidth and frequency agility, beam-forming, side-lobe suppression, etc) to make it so that it’s difficult for radar-detection systems to pick up on it. So a F-35 can use its own radar to find and lock-on to an enemy plane while the enemy remains oblivious. What that means is that the F-35 can see a non-stealth plane from far away, effectively sneak up on the unsuspecting target to get into no-escape range (the missile’s powered flight envelope in which it’s impossible to evade), launch, and the enemy remains oblivious until the moment he spots the missile’s contrail or his radar-warning receiver picks up the missile’s active radar — but it’s far, far too late for him to survive. That’s why 5th gen is so brutally next-level, shatteringly overpowered. If you have 5th gen and the other guy doesn’t you win, full stop. That’s WHY the entire world who can buy the F-35 is doing so.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      sounds like something made to directly counter gear that was made during the cold war. an software and hardware update shold overcome "stealth". the problem is cost and capability, not super secret science magic

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It isn't. Westoid wunderwaffen garbage. Enjoy continuing to starve to death mutts while the grifts that bought and sold these live in megamansions and frick your girlfriend for weekend.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You realize that the US is a net food exporter, right? If the US is starving then so is most of China.

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Westoids so desperate for their trillion dollar vaopware to be worth it they are now making up and lying to themselves about the nature of light! Is F35 your new religion?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Lol the eastoid cope coming from this post is almost palpable, enjoy NEVER having stealth planes, assuming your country even has jet planes in the first place LMAO.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Frick around and find out.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Eastoids are so broke they don't even know how light works, SAD!

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I bet you think light speed is a constant.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's not invisible, just fuzzy. Radars can see it but they can't see it well enough to guide a missile into it.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What hunk of metal?

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Can someone explain to me, in simple terms, how this massive hunk of metal is invisible to radars?
    F-35 is a short man, radars are women

  26. 1 month ago
    Sieg heil

    Can you explain to me why people go to Coachella to watch a video of harshness Miku sing and dance on a monitor?

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Different materials have different transparency for different parts of spectrum. Your hand reflects (or absorbs) the visible light but is transparent for X-ray. A glass is transparent for visible light but reflects/absorbs UV. Diamond is transparent or reflects the visible light, but coal absorbs the visible light. F-35 reflects visible light, but absorbs or is transparent for radiowaves.

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >hunk of metal
    It's mostly carbon composite.

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Well, first thing first, do you know how radar works?

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    radar is like shining a flashlight and looking at what returns
    this thing is like half a mirror that absorbs a lot of the light and reflects the rest up/down instead of back at you so you dont see it when shining a light at it

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    shoot a bunch of photons out and count the time they take to come back and how much energy they have, use this to calculate distance and object material. you can get returns from anything in the path so you filter out all the shit to get a clearer picture, stealth planes reflect these photons away from the radar or absorb them, some photons make it back but theres so few they get filtered out as noise

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Radar beam bounce off thing come back, see thing

    Radar beam bounce off thing no come back, no see thing

  33. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >simple terms
    Majiks. Like Willow on Buffy.

  34. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    RADAR waves have to bounce back to the sending unit for it to "see" the target. Stealth characteristics disperse the waves so they don't return and / or give them very little to reflect on.

  35. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's not invisible to radars.

    F35 is frontal aspect only VLO.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Fun fact, there's no actual specifications for stealth. As long as the radar cross section is less than a plane that size normally is you can consider it stealth. Typically, we go by average Radar Cross Section and for the F-35 that's 0.0015 square meters.

  36. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I don't care if it shoots lazers and gives out free blowjob
    that plane is UGLY
    we shouda wasted tax money on something that at least looked nicer

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Jet planes were a nazi invention, go back to a TRUE AMERICAN PLANE BABY!!!!

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        the american way is to steal from the best

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      most maneuverable plane at supersonic speeds

  37. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The same way you can listen to a radio that is inside a building.

  38. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's not and there are hobyyist channels on yt regularly detecting B-2 and the F-35 from vast distances on hobbyist radars.

    Anti radar tech is usually quickly outdated and gets ever harder to implement.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You do know that they turn their transponders off and remove their radar reflectors in wartime right?

  39. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Can someone explain to me, in simple terms, how this massive hunk of metal can fly through the air like a bird?

  40. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    If they can make things almost invisible to the eyes then I guess that, with the level of military spending, they can fool radars too.
    Some quick youtube:

    But I have seen (or not seen - hehe - got it?) such tricks with completely non-transparent objects too.

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