knowing the brain of a larper he probably googled it, got told it was moronic even by the bushcrafter forums, then came here to shit the board up with a fantasy about not having to spend $80 on a bear can.
>Car doors are... aluminum
stopped reading right there, this guy has no clue what he's talking about.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Pretty much any car made in the past 10 years uses aluminum for the outside, it’s the the 80’s anymore
1 year ago
Anonymous
Black person you are dumb
1 year ago
Anonymous
Black person what are you moronic?
>aluminum doors are only seen on higher end luxury cars
Lol they even make pickup truck bodies out of aluminum, quit talking out of your ass kid.
A bear isn’t gonna pierce the side of a steel ammo can, they can literally fall out of an airplane and just be dented.
Their weak point is, obviously, the lever that keeps the lid closed, but that’s not really a problem if you rivet on a solid way to put a lock on it >it needs to be round and smooth so a bear can’t pick it up
Explain Ursacks then. >bear can is cheap to rent and weighs less then an ammo can
OP is probably wanting to use it as a cache or car camp with, not to carry in a backpack
>Lol they even make pickup truck bodies out of aluminum, quit talking out of your ass kid.
are you really trying to backpedal this?
the irony of someone who's never done automotive body work or welded in their life telling me i'm talking out of my ass. lol. >Their weak point is, obviously, the lever that keeps the lid closed, but that’s not really a problem if you rivet on a solid way to put a lock on it
and the square edges with enough gap to pry open. and the sheet metal being thin enough i can flex it with my hand. if the us military was developing a bear canister do you think it would be an ammo can?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>are you really trying to backpedal this?
Backpedal what?
You’re the one saying only luxury cars have aluminum bodies, I’m simply correcting you with facts.
It only takes a simple google search. >square edges with enough gap to pry open.
They are waterproof, so idk what gap in the edge you are talking about lmao
You need to be 18 to post here kid
1 year ago
Anonymous
the vast vast vast majority of cars on the road are steel. the only cars with aluminum doors and bodies are things like higher end bmw's and mercedes, range rovers, and newer f series trucks.
you're a clueless clown but what do you expect from the guy trying to say ammo cans are a bear can replacement arguing with a guy who has a 20 thousand dollar frame pulling machine in his yard who does body work.
ammo cans are made from .8 to .12 cold rolled steel sheet metal, stamped. modern car doors are made from .7 cold rolled steel sheet metal folded around itself into much stronger shapes. its virtually the same.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Nah, the outside of a car door is about half as thick as an ammo can, and most cars made in the last 10 years use aluminum not steel like ammo cans
1 year ago
Anonymous
that's just the skin. have you ever pulled a car door apart before? >and most cars made in the last 10 years use aluminum not steel like ammo cans
no they don't.
i literally do collision repair and own a frame machine.
Hijacking this shit thread for an actual question: how can I discourage a blackbear from breaking into my car at the trailhead? Maybe clean the hell out of it, but these frickers will still smell the 2 year old cheerio that slid behind the seats
here's a photo of a car door cross section
the thinnest layer of that skin is .7 cold rolled steel on virtually all modern cars. ammo cans are made from .7 to .12 cold rolled steel. aluminum doors are only seen on higher end luxury cars which make up a pretty small % of what's on the road. older cars will use thicker steel.
the thickness of the metal is not solely the reason why an ammo can is fricking dumb as a bear can, its primarily the shape. look at every bear can on the market. they have rounded edges to stop bears from being able to pick them up and leverage them. bears are stronger than you think if you give them a chance to have a mechanical advantage.
you know in your heart this is a stupid meth-baked idea to try to save 80 bucks on a bear can. if you're broke they rent bear cans at your local outfitter for the cost of a cup of coffee. a bear can actually works, fits more food, and weighs less when emptied.
>aluminum doors are only seen on higher end luxury cars
Lol they even make pickup truck bodies out of aluminum, quit talking out of your ass kid.
A bear isn’t gonna pierce the side of a steel ammo can, they can literally fall out of an airplane and just be dented.
Their weak point is, obviously, the lever that keeps the lid closed, but that’s not really a problem if you rivet on a solid way to put a lock on it >it needs to be round and smooth so a bear can’t pick it up
Explain Ursacks then. >bear can is cheap to rent and weighs less then an ammo can
OP is probably wanting to use it as a cache or car camp with, not to carry in a backpack
>Explain Ursacks then.
they're soft, can't exactly smash it. they tear them open at the seams instead. most ursak failures are partial failures where the food stays in the bag, but the bag rips open and gets slobbered all over, and the bear develops le bad socialized habit.
but also nobody uses ursaks in more than like, black bear country. they're not legal to use as replacements where bear canisters are required. they're for having a bit of peace of mind in areas you don't need a canister that still have bears. not really even marketed as a bear can replacemenent.
I can feel the sides of the can starting to bow when I squeeze it. A bear is going to knock it over, step on it and its done for. It may delay it long enough for it long enough for you to do something however.
i think bear hangs are starting to get phased out and banned in some places, theyre just not effective since its so difficult to find a tree which works well for a bear hang, need to use bear canisters in a lot of places now. i wish more companies would experiment with new bear canister materials, the carbon fiber ones are interesting but really expensive.
No a black bear can't into an ammo can. They are actually bear proof rated per the design criteria the military put out.
The big bear can outdoor industry does not want you to know this so they sued to keep ammo can manufacturers from advertising it, but it I true. Also the hermetic foam seal keeps scent away so bears don't even know there's food.
>They are actually bear proof rated per the design criteria the military put out.
nope, they're not. and it doesn't matter either way because usda approval determines if a bear can is legal to use or not anyways.
Probably not if you riveted on some way to lock the lever down tight
>Probably not if you riveted on some way to lock the lever down tight
>aluminum doors are only seen on higher end luxury cars
Lol they even make pickup truck bodies out of aluminum, quit talking out of your ass kid.
A bear isn’t gonna pierce the side of a steel ammo can, they can literally fall out of an airplane and just be dented.
Their weak point is, obviously, the lever that keeps the lid closed, but that’s not really a problem if you rivet on a solid way to put a lock on it >it needs to be round and smooth so a bear can’t pick it up
Explain Ursacks then. >bear can is cheap to rent and weighs less then an ammo can
OP is probably wanting to use it as a cache or car camp with, not to carry in a backpack
>Their weak point is, obviously, the lever that keeps the lid closed, but that’s not really a problem if you rivet on a solid way to put a lock on it
you not only have to alter the lever mechanism as per the second link below, but you also have to rivet bar stock onto the lid to stop it from flexing for it to be considered bear resistant. >Modifications to 50 Caliber Ammo Box >Three 7.5 inch long pieces of bar channel (1" with 1/2" legs) are riveted with 4 rivets each to the >inside of the lid with 3/16" diameter and .375 inch (longer may be better) grip all steel pop >rivets. The bar channel piece ends are ground at a beveled angle to allow the lid to fit on the box >and the top edges of the sides of the box to slide into place in the rubber gasket on the lid. A >ubolt is attached to each end of the box by drilling holes and bolting on the inside. A carabiner >must be clipped through the built to be bear resistant. This modification supersedes the >modification for a 50 caliber ammo box presented in USDA Forest Service, Bear Resistant >Containers – Minimum Design and Structural Standards: Inspection and Testing Methodology - >1989, Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee. The modification presented in that publication did >not have the bar channel riveted to the lid. The bar channel is necessary for the ammo can to be >considered bear resistant.
http://westernwildlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/resistantproducts.pdf
https://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=US9136993
not sure if its legal to use one after modification or not. the fine for an inadequate bear canister is almost $1000, like 10x what just buying a commercially available one costs.
Lots of misinformation here. As someone who's not a bear in any way, I can say that ammo cans are perfectly safe to store all manner of foods: delicious sandwiches, various meats and cheeses, smoked salmon... let's see... maybe throw a few pancakes in there too... as well as kraft dinner (just not the generic kind, make sure it's brand name)... like... and you can even leave it alone and we ... they (the bears I mean)... absolutely won't be able to get into it or eat all that stuff before you're back.
>OP is probably wanting to use it as a cache or car camp with, not to carry in a backpack
that is all i would consider using an ammo can for.
even if you fully modify it and it works great, you're relying on ranger rick knowing about an obscure usda paper about modifying ammo cans out in the woods to not eat a fine.
A case of ammo? Might knock it over, or salvage it and use it to shoot dumbass humans
You want Hollywood making another dumb fricking movie about a bear but this time with a gun?
>Bear With a Gun (2024)
Yea, I'd watch that.
Bear would be a troony and only shoot him/herself
That reminds me that Cocaine Bear will be in cinema this year
no ammo cans don't keep bears out. they're smart enough to pick them up and smash it. get an ursak if its just black bears.
QTDDTOT. or google
knowing the brain of a larper he probably googled it, got told it was moronic even by the bushcrafter forums, then came here to shit the board up with a fantasy about not having to spend $80 on a bear can.
I have a Counter Assault Bear Keg. I have a hard time believing it's stronger than a steel ammo can. Bear can marketing seems like a lot of bullshit.
black bears pry car doors open all the time. an ammo can has square edges that make it very easy for a bear to get in.
Car doors are thin sheets of aluminum while ammo cans are steel that is probably twice as thick as the outer metal on a car door
>Car doors are... aluminum
stopped reading right there, this guy has no clue what he's talking about.
Pretty much any car made in the past 10 years uses aluminum for the outside, it’s the the 80’s anymore
Black person you are dumb
Black person what are you moronic?
>Lol they even make pickup truck bodies out of aluminum, quit talking out of your ass kid.
are you really trying to backpedal this?
the irony of someone who's never done automotive body work or welded in their life telling me i'm talking out of my ass. lol.
>Their weak point is, obviously, the lever that keeps the lid closed, but that’s not really a problem if you rivet on a solid way to put a lock on it
and the square edges with enough gap to pry open. and the sheet metal being thin enough i can flex it with my hand. if the us military was developing a bear canister do you think it would be an ammo can?
>are you really trying to backpedal this?
Backpedal what?
You’re the one saying only luxury cars have aluminum bodies, I’m simply correcting you with facts.
It only takes a simple google search.
>square edges with enough gap to pry open.
They are waterproof, so idk what gap in the edge you are talking about lmao
You need to be 18 to post here kid
the vast vast vast majority of cars on the road are steel. the only cars with aluminum doors and bodies are things like higher end bmw's and mercedes, range rovers, and newer f series trucks.
you're a clueless clown but what do you expect from the guy trying to say ammo cans are a bear can replacement arguing with a guy who has a 20 thousand dollar frame pulling machine in his yard who does body work.
ammo cans are made from .8 to .12 cold rolled steel sheet metal, stamped. modern car doors are made from .7 cold rolled steel sheet metal folded around itself into much stronger shapes. its virtually the same.
Nah, the outside of a car door is about half as thick as an ammo can, and most cars made in the last 10 years use aluminum not steel like ammo cans
that's just the skin. have you ever pulled a car door apart before?
>and most cars made in the last 10 years use aluminum not steel like ammo cans
no they don't.
i literally do collision repair and own a frame machine.
>black bears pry car doors open all the time
There are zero videos of this.
it looks way harder to get into than a ammo can. what are you talking about? just look at the shape.
how are you firing it? holding it in your hand and bang it with a stone lol?
Probably not if you riveted on some way to lock the lever down tight
Hijacking this shit thread for an actual question: how can I discourage a blackbear from breaking into my car at the trailhead? Maybe clean the hell out of it, but these frickers will still smell the 2 year old cheerio that slid behind the seats
i park away from the trailhead and hike a mile or two in. socialized bears tend to break into stuff where they're trained to be rewarded.
here's a photo of a car door cross section
the thinnest layer of that skin is .7 cold rolled steel on virtually all modern cars. ammo cans are made from .7 to .12 cold rolled steel. aluminum doors are only seen on higher end luxury cars which make up a pretty small % of what's on the road. older cars will use thicker steel.
the thickness of the metal is not solely the reason why an ammo can is fricking dumb as a bear can, its primarily the shape. look at every bear can on the market. they have rounded edges to stop bears from being able to pick them up and leverage them. bears are stronger than you think if you give them a chance to have a mechanical advantage.
you know in your heart this is a stupid meth-baked idea to try to save 80 bucks on a bear can. if you're broke they rent bear cans at your local outfitter for the cost of a cup of coffee. a bear can actually works, fits more food, and weighs less when emptied.
>aluminum doors are only seen on higher end luxury cars
Lol they even make pickup truck bodies out of aluminum, quit talking out of your ass kid.
A bear isn’t gonna pierce the side of a steel ammo can, they can literally fall out of an airplane and just be dented.
Their weak point is, obviously, the lever that keeps the lid closed, but that’s not really a problem if you rivet on a solid way to put a lock on it
>it needs to be round and smooth so a bear can’t pick it up
Explain Ursacks then.
>bear can is cheap to rent and weighs less then an ammo can
OP is probably wanting to use it as a cache or car camp with, not to carry in a backpack
>Explain Ursacks then.
they're soft, can't exactly smash it. they tear them open at the seams instead. most ursak failures are partial failures where the food stays in the bag, but the bag rips open and gets slobbered all over, and the bear develops le bad socialized habit.
but also nobody uses ursaks in more than like, black bear country. they're not legal to use as replacements where bear canisters are required. they're for having a bit of peace of mind in areas you don't need a canister that still have bears. not really even marketed as a bear can replacemenent.
if you search your question and EVEN THE BUSHCRAFTER FORUMS ARE LAUGHING AT THE IDEA OF IT AND CALLING IT DUMB you done fricked up.
I can feel the sides of the can starting to bow when I squeeze it. A bear is going to knock it over, step on it and its done for. It may delay it long enough for it long enough for you to do something however.
What if you can't find any trees?
i think bear hangs are starting to get phased out and banned in some places, theyre just not effective since its so difficult to find a tree which works well for a bear hang, need to use bear canisters in a lot of places now. i wish more companies would experiment with new bear canister materials, the carbon fiber ones are interesting but really expensive.
Ban a bear smash it? No
Can a hungry and curious bear frick with it till they pop it open ? Yes
The latch is kind of simple. Why are you putting food in ammo cans? I just can't picture that situation.
No a black bear can't into an ammo can. They are actually bear proof rated per the design criteria the military put out.
The big bear can outdoor industry does not want you to know this so they sued to keep ammo can manufacturers from advertising it, but it I true. Also the hermetic foam seal keeps scent away so bears don't even know there's food.
>They are actually bear proof rated per the design criteria the military put out.
nope, they're not. and it doesn't matter either way because usda approval determines if a bear can is legal to use or not anyways.
>Probably not if you riveted on some way to lock the lever down tight
>Their weak point is, obviously, the lever that keeps the lid closed, but that’s not really a problem if you rivet on a solid way to put a lock on it
you not only have to alter the lever mechanism as per the second link below, but you also have to rivet bar stock onto the lid to stop it from flexing for it to be considered bear resistant.
>Modifications to 50 Caliber Ammo Box
>Three 7.5 inch long pieces of bar channel (1" with 1/2" legs) are riveted with 4 rivets each to the
>inside of the lid with 3/16" diameter and .375 inch (longer may be better) grip all steel pop
>rivets. The bar channel piece ends are ground at a beveled angle to allow the lid to fit on the box
>and the top edges of the sides of the box to slide into place in the rubber gasket on the lid. A
>ubolt is attached to each end of the box by drilling holes and bolting on the inside. A carabiner
>must be clipped through the built to be bear resistant. This modification supersedes the
>modification for a 50 caliber ammo box presented in USDA Forest Service, Bear Resistant
>Containers – Minimum Design and Structural Standards: Inspection and Testing Methodology -
>1989, Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee. The modification presented in that publication did
>not have the bar channel riveted to the lid. The bar channel is necessary for the ammo can to be
>considered bear resistant.
http://westernwildlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/resistantproducts.pdf
https://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=US9136993
not sure if its legal to use one after modification or not. the fine for an inadequate bear canister is almost $1000, like 10x what just buying a commercially available one costs.
Lots of misinformation here. As someone who's not a bear in any way, I can say that ammo cans are perfectly safe to store all manner of foods: delicious sandwiches, various meats and cheeses, smoked salmon... let's see... maybe throw a few pancakes in there too... as well as kraft dinner (just not the generic kind, make sure it's brand name)... like... and you can even leave it alone and we ... they (the bears I mean)... absolutely won't be able to get into it or eat all that stuff before you're back.
>OP is probably wanting to use it as a cache or car camp with, not to carry in a backpack
that is all i would consider using an ammo can for.
even if you fully modify it and it works great, you're relying on ranger rick knowing about an obscure usda paper about modifying ammo cans out in the woods to not eat a fine.
Probably, yeah. Put the food in an opsack inside the can or bury it if you're using it as a cache.
>opsak
IME normal ass oven/turkey bags from the grocery store stop smell even better. try it out sometime. cheaper too, but perhaps not as reusable.
Bears no. guerrilla on the other hand.
Yeah.
They'll be encouraged by the latch moving and then open it up normally.