yes, first property was 3.3 acres, and the second (adjacent to first) was 3.7. kind of slow-rolling a homestead though; wife and i are both still working, but working on getting as much self sufficiency out of our land as possible. it doesn't happen overnight.
things to look into: >can i build >what permits do i need
do not, do NOT under any circumstances ask the county/jurisdiction these questions outright regarding a specific parcel of land. What will happen is the planner will make a note regarding the question on that specific parcel. So you'll potentially lose your plausible deniability (and if it comes to it, an as-built permit exception)
Talk to a land use lawyer, and look into similar parcels that were granted permits/approval
>water
you'll want to look into the wellmaster's log for that area, it should have a record of every well that was dug, including the depth and flow rates.
does it get enough rainwater for a catchment to supply your needs year round? do your math on this, depending on your goals.
>utilities
if there isn't already mains power nearby, be prepared to spend some serious $$$ to have it run out to the parcel. depending on the jurisdiction, generators and/or solar might not be enough to get your permits. solar is deceptively expensive, particularly in regards to storage.
if only 🙂 i don't think you can realistically be totally self sufficient. chainsaws, wood chippers, tillers, tractors, etc etc all require fuel, and more importantly - replacement parts. pvc cement dries out and gels within a few days of being opened, pumps break down, and so on.
It's more of a hobby and to offset our reliance on driving into the grocery store for food. and it's a great hobby tbh, growing as much of your own food as possible, learning just about every DIY skillset, overall it's incredibly gratifying watching some bare bit of dirt turn into something, that you built with your own two hands.
total cost of the house + land was about 250k. (60k or so for the land, all the permits, site dev, and the actual construction). In our case, we're about 35 minutes away from the nearest 'city' (10 from the nearest town), so if you're okay with a bit of a commute, it's really quite reasonable. definitely beats buying a massively overpriced existing house
one other benefit to building is that the appreciation generated by building will put you way over the 20% threshold for PMI. we only had to put down 5% to start the construction process.
That sounds great. I live nowhere near there but would love to try something similar, especially since housing seems so absurd. Didn’t know what you’re doing could be done for that cost.
I work in lake county southern Oregon. What area are you in?
We've been looking for places in Southern coast to homestead if we can find the land in a few years.
2 years ago
Anonymous
we're in lane county, just about on the douglas co border. I'd avoid lane county though anon, the building restrictions are just nuts now, county takes FOREVER to act on anything, and the prices are insane.
FWIW i love lake county (and really the entire oregon outback area)
Dog Lake and Marster Springs are some of the best camping spots I've ever been to. Astronomy trips at the top of hogback with my pops when i was younger were great memories as well. Buddy of mine has been buying up plots in christmas valley on the cheap (i think he's up to 40 acres now) -- is there a reason why you'd want to leave lake county though -- it seems pretty amazing (if you can work remotely or already have a job) and the land is dirt cheap.
being able to drive for HOURS and only seeing one or two other cars makes me miss where i grew up in eastern oregon.
So, did you buy the land outright and then finance the build? Could you please tell me how you paid for the whole project? Thanks, anon.
2 years ago
Anonymous
sure thing anon.. so how it worked:
starting in october of 2018:
1. found a parcel of land from our realtor (60k)
2. contacted adair (wouldn't recommend them all things considered; but it was the cheapest route to a house, and streamlined the permit approval -- they do so many permits / plans, that they basically are rubber stamped vs bringing in custom plans from an architect)
3. adair quoted us a total price for the build (~140k)
4. contacted a contractor out here who does septic (10k), site dev (~30k), and well drilling (~12k)
5. adair's sister company (AFS) did the actual construction loan -- which included site dev, permits, raw materials, etc. as well as the purchase of the land itself. (which was your main question -- the construction loan covered the cost of the land)
once construction was completed in august of 2019, the entire construction loan was converted into a traditional mortgage -- and due to the appreciation from the bare land to house + land, the 20% equity threshold for not requiring PMI was met.
we kind of lucked out because the CUP (conditional use permit) was already in place for the parcel we bought -- otherwise it would have been an extra 5 or 6 months of being dicked around by the county before we could build (which would have effectively blocked our build -- as the total duration of the construction loan was 12 months)
lemme know if you have other questions or whatnot, happy to help =P
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nice, thanks for the input. I'll be there one day. I had a well thought out response with questions but had a ban so couldn't post it, so I don't want to type it out again, but I appreciate the insight.
Bought 35 acres in BC. Not sure about homesteading, but am going to build a cabin.
>do not ask the county questions about a specific parcel of land
I used my personal email to inquire about some permitting/bylaw restrictions. Might have fricked up because I'm currently in the process of building a structure that violates bylaw. My hope is that upon discovery, it will have been years since the inquiry and the email address will not be noted.
Also, I've been told that the inspector covers such a large territory that inspections occur on complaint only.
gotcha, yeah you should be okay? it's more if you own a parcel, and get told 'no' regarding some land use decision-- then do it anyways; you're in a far worse position than if you didn't bother asking and did it anyways.
also be wary with drones/aerial photos -- some counties (mine for example) will review aerials to look for unlicensed/unpermitted structures. pretty shitty IMO.
You have to know a lot about land management.
The soil, erosion in the long term, the water table, prevailing winds.
Then there are things like local laws, development overlay, pollution sources.
For instance I know a guy who got cheap land only to find that a local mine dusted his property with toxic metals and he couldn't grow anything for sale and had to truck water in.
he was outraged but found that the mine had special permission to pollute and had compensated the PREVIOUS owners, who subsequently sold up.
I know another guy who found that he legally had to have a power line which he didn't think much of until he found out that the power company was going to charge him 10k annually to maintain a line he didn't even want.
A third guy I know had the power company tear down all his wind break trees because they thought the trees were too close to the power lines, thus exposing the whole side to heavy frost and killing all the plants around the immediate vicinity of the house.
Land is often sold for a reason, and if the owner is buying something nearby they could be trying to dodge something.
Realtors are not actually bound by any laws, the frickin israelites will just lie and run- so don't trust anything they say and hire your own agent for the valuation
Man, it seems like if you aren't already young and making a shitload of money a decade ago then buying land is just impossible. Everyone in the last generation of my family was about to work low wage jobs and, eventually, save up and afford 30 or 40 acre plots. Large enough that you can shoot or blow shit up and nobody bothers you.
Now nobody I knows can buy frick all. Even my friends making better salaries.
What else if different is that buying big land plots just seems to not be a thing anymore. A big corp will just part-out a 30 acre plot, 1 or two acres at a time and charge insane prices for them. So then only insanely wealthy people are buying tiny 1 or 2 acre plots and building crazy McMansions that are so close they nearly touch. Which just replicates city culture and is complete ecocide.
yeah my county (lane, oregon) took a pretty drastic approach to preventing that kind of development.
basically they're using some archaic 'big game' migration route to block any and all development (without doing some crazy impact studies) to parcels OVER 80 acres
it's kind of nuts, but i guess what was happening is exactly what you described -- someone (typically an out of stater, CA usually) swoops in and buys 20+ acres, divvies those lots into smaller plots (~3a) and sells each one individually for north of $60k so now the hinterlands are just another suburb with really big lot sizes and gaudy mcmansions.
hard to say, it was just implemented (Nimpkish vs LUBA i believe is the specific, relevant case) I also misspoke, they're blocking development of SFD's on lots less than 80 acres. While it does prevent suburban sprawl, it also wienerblocks middle class people from ever moving out into the country, homesteading and the like. which truly is a shame.
my take is that an 80 acre minimum is way too high; there aren't that many lots of that size, and you'd have to be able to cough up a few hundred K (minimum) to buy that much land -- so it really just prices out the middle class -- especially since getting a bank to lend on a plot of bare land is nearly impossible.
Lane county in particular has been smoking the 'walkable cities, sustainable development' bullshit for a while though. I think the county (and state really) are on the fringes of the agenda 2030 nonsense. Basically using zoning and property taxes to force people back into towns. Where they've banned single family dwelling zoning ordinances; and are in the process of shitting up every decent neighborhood with duplexes, quads, apartments etc. It's this gross progressive notion that you can achieve true equality by making everyone equally miserable.
Best bet would be to find a farmhouse or other SFD on some acreage, as I believe they'll let you replace existing structures; but it's always a gamble. You wouldn't know if you could proceed with your project until you've already bought the land, and ultimately it's all down to the discretion of the planner handling your case. Be nice, they are VERY fricking sensitive, and can be quite spiteful if you get on their bad side. Petty bureaucrats, the lot of them. Another fun fact, planning is a lot like the legal system in terms of precedent. So if some 20 year old shithead who works in land management vetos a build for some reason, that decision will be cited in subsequent decisions. disagree? get ready for a multi-year court battle to get it reversed
Okay. That's interesting. How would it be fixed? Lower the limit like you say? Or making a sort of "homestead exemption" or some shit where if the buyer is specifically trying to just buy land to live on then they can be allowed to buy it instead of "developers" from California?
2 years ago
Anonymous
honestly, no idea how to fix it. other than as you mentioned, have some kind of homestead exemption. While obviously not a lawyer, but it seems really hard to have laws that are:
>codified >fair >free from loopholes.
from an individual's standpoint it's easy to make a determination on whether someone buying a chunk of land to homestead is a good thing; whereas it's bad when some out of stater or worse, corporation is trying to buy it. But even having an exemption on the books for homesteading, how do you keep that from being gamed?
Another thing that would greatly, greatly help would be a lending program specific to small holding/homesteading. the biggest barrier i can see is getting a bank to lend you the money to buy bare land. you can get a construction loan easily enough, but they require water (well), mains power, building permits, etc -- that's a different beast entirely compared to what a lot of folks would like to do with a rural plot of land -- so your left with having to save up a good chunk of change for a cash deal.
Novels aside, I honestly i think the end game is going to shake out looking something like the agenda 2030 business. hinterlands mostly unpopulated, with extremely limited access. Small holders herded back into cities via a confluence of environmental rules and economic hardship (raise the property taxes to insane proportions, restriction in automobile ownership, etc) -- there's a ton of ways for them to turn the screws on people who don't play their game.
it really, really depends on where you want to buy land in. you will find giant parcels in the middle of nowhere for dirt cheap(relatively speaking), but, again, it will be in the middle of nowhere
check land use. for example are there any restrictions on if you can log your land if you want to?
make sure you look into restrictions on exactly what you can and can't build. some places have really stupid laws. for example live in structures are illegal unless they are OVER 2000 sqft. some places will require you pay for extras like plowing in winter through taxes because you built a structure. plow costs all going into 1 persons taxes is $$$$$$
water and mineral rights are another one to check. look into any regulations around septic systems if there are not utilities.
figure out what your goal is and look for land that meets that. i personally wouldn't buy somewhere without either surface water or easily drillable well. the water table is going to substantially drop year over year, so if you already need to go a few hundred feet down theres a solid chance you'll run dry in a couple years in states likes UT, AZ, NM, CA, NV, ND, SD, MT, ID
>do not, do NOT under any circumstances ask the county/jurisdiction these questions outright regarding a specific parcel of land. What will happen is the planner will make a note regarding the question on that specific parcel. So you'll potentially lose your plausible deniability (and if it comes to it, an as-built permit exception)
This is such a redneck/boomer way of thinking. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
but it does though anon, it really, really does.
not saying to avoid getting approvall. Just be measured when dealing with the county. Depending on the scope of your project, speak to a land use attorney first, THEN ring up the county.
In some parts of the country, zoning is common even in rural areas. It's mostly controlled at the township level. Practically every zoning resolution will prevent you from building a Kacynski cabin, but feel free to read it if you are feeling desperate enough.
Deed restrictions can also be baked into the parcel of land in areas without zoning.
Montana is literally the only place in the US that has counties where there are enough nonexistent laws to allow you the freedom to build something that isn't to code or subject to some regulation. I also know, however, that it's only in what the state government has deemed the "undesirable" parts of Montana, so good fricking luck getting access to it.
I'm in Alaska and didn't ask permission for anything. They saw my cabin from the sky a couple years after it was built and added it to the tax assessment but that's all.
No chance of owning land in this day and age. My best option is going off grid somewhere. Idk where but i'll find a place.
If you were to stop spending money on netflix and lootcrate subscriptions you could eventually buy land
quads of moronation >just stop buying Starbucks >just stop watching Netflix >just stop making small impulse purchases that help your mental health and are inconsequential in the long run >it's totally not the fact that you pay 50 percent of your paycheck towards rent or that food is going up I price every week, or that employers won't give benefits or living wages
go frick yourself you entitled prick
yes buying starbucks will improve your "mental health"
lots of small purchases are not inconsequential, anyone who wants to buy land has to save up money to do it and I'd rather have land than 2000 lattes
and how am I entitled? I saved money to buy land and it seems you believe you are entitled to housing, subscription services, overpriced luxury items, subsidized food, and benefits. I'm not rich and I still have land due to not wasting money
>small impulse purchases that help your mental health >i need instant gratification multiple times a week otherwise i enter a spiral of depression
Seek help. Consumerism isn't a cure, it's a problem.
I'm not gunna lie I absolute love how pissed off and apathetic and excuse making Gen Z and Millenials are.
You can be like hey you know what might help your life is if you try a little bit and they're like
FRICK YOU BOOMER YOU RUINED MY LIFE
kek
you guys realize that people up to the 1980s were able to buy houses on minimum wage? the salty zoomer is right
2 years ago
Anonymous
>if you're not with me you're against me
I'm just saying if you're impulse-buying for your "mental health" you should seek actual help.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'd argue that stuff isn't impulse buying, it's just habit. I like to buy a cold brew coffee 5 days a week for about 3 bucks. It brings me comfort, and it's part of my routine at this point. I also make coffee at home, but the ritual of walking to the cafe and enjoying the sun on my lunch is great. Small purchases, even regularly, don't make a real impact on long term saving. One emergency can wipe out years of savings for people who don't make much. Imagine saving for 2 years and not buying anything for yourself, and then having a serious life event take it all away. That absolutely hurts your mental health, and you probably should just do things that help you in any small way.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I'd argue that stuff isn't impulse buying, it's just habit.
quads of moronation >just stop buying Starbucks >just stop watching Netflix >just stop making small impulse purchases that help your mental health and are inconsequential in the long run >it's totally not the fact that you pay 50 percent of your paycheck towards rent or that food is going up I price every week, or that employers won't give benefits or living wages
go frick yourself you entitled prick
>just stop making small impulse purchases that help your mental health and are inconsequential in the long run
Moving the goalposts much.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Gotta start somewhere. Lots of morons don't know how to be cheap here that is for sure. Piss all their money away and wonder why they don't have the cash to put a downpayment on a home or a car
[...]
No they weren't. No one is even saying its easy, just don't be a moron. Be cheap, diy, and work hard.
let me break it down for all the bootstrapping "oh you millennials just don't want to work" types. >1980 >Avg house price is 76k (295k in today's money) >Avg wage is 17k (about 65k in today's money)
>2022 >Avg home price has increased to about 500k. (something like an 80 percent increase in home value compared to 1980 when adjusted) >Avg wage is about 51k (10k less than avg wage in 1980 after adjusting)
We make less than your parents, housing is going up, and you have the audacity to say that "all you have to do is work hard and save", "oh it's small purchases that make you poor" while we're getting bent over.
[...]
If you are struggling to make ends meet you obviously can't afford land until you have more income
If you are spending >50 at bar >100 eating out >50 on subscriptions >100 on new electronics >30 on vidya >100 on unnecessary new clothes
per month that works out to 430/month or 5k a year. if you were to save that money you could own land within a few years and these are the types of people that shouldn't claim no one can afford land in >current year
That's called a spending problem, and isn't anything like what I was describing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>and you have the audacity to say that "all you have to do is work hard and save"
Yes. You can still buy fixer uppers, most millennials just don't because they are lazy and would rather play video games. Most millennials I know pay people to do everything from painting rooms to mowing their lawn. Again, no one is debating with you. Its definitely harder now than it was; but to imply that its impossible or you'll never do it, well, not with that attitude. I guess I don't understand why people would sit around b***hing about that all day? Like what the frick? Do you expect it to get better?Expect the government to help lol? No. Bootstraps are literally your only option. Mature people realize this. Immature people whine about it and spend their money on cool clothes to impress prostitutes
2 years ago
Anonymous
bootstraps are a literally impossible metaphor to illustrate absurdity. I have no idea how it's taken seriously now. I'm getting paid to sit here and b***h. Mature people realize there is more than one way people experience living and that videogames, clothes, and prostitutes aren't the ONLY CONCIEVABLE REASON someone might have no prospects and be poor, and not have a way out. What if houses suddenly jump in price after I've saved for a few years? I'm SOL and would have to save more, and it could jump again in that time. The government does help, first time homebuyers programs are the only thing allowing people who arent millionaires to buy houses anymore. There are options, but all of us younger than 30 are going to have to deal with the fact that we all got fricked,and we're getting less for more. The smart move is to leave the US entirely so you actually get something for the taxes you pay. I'd rather b***h and plan than give some piece of shit 600k.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Mature people realize there is more than one way people experience living and that videogames, clothes, and prostitutes aren't the ONLY CONCIEVABLE REASON someone might have no prospects and be poor
I would say 90% of poor people are either stupid or lazy and most of them engage in rampant consumerism actually. There is even a meme about this for black people. its called "Black person rich". As soon as they get a little cash they buy chains or an escalade. But yeah, most people don't understand how to live with minimalism or save money. Online shopping made it worse since they can buy whatever they want and have it delivered to their door.
> The government does help
LOL, liberals....
>The smart move is to leave the US entirely so you actually get something for the taxes
Oh man. I'm not even going to respond to this one. I'll let my homies take care of this one
2 years ago
Anonymous
>As soon as they get a little cash they buy chains or an escalade
Funny, it was the chains they were b***hing about a couple years ago...
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Mature people realize there is more than one way people experience living and that videogames, clothes, and prostitutes aren't the ONLY CONCIEVABLE REASON someone might have no prospects and be poor
I would say 90% of poor people are either stupid or lazy and most of them engage in rampant consumerism actually. There is even a meme about this for black people. its called "Black person rich". As soon as they get a little cash they buy chains or an escalade. But yeah, most people don't understand how to live with minimalism or save money. Online shopping made it worse since they can buy whatever they want and have it delivered to their door.
> The government does help
LOL, liberals....
>The smart move is to leave the US entirely so you actually get something for the taxes
Oh man. I'm not even going to respond to this one. I'll let my homies take care of this one
The other 10% of poor people are what I like to call "temporary poor" they are either (previously) successful people who are down on their luck maybe they got fired or whatever OR they are young men in their 20s trying to make it. They usually do after about 5-7 years. Honestly if I had to give advice to someone in their 20s I would say would hard 25-30 and you will coast the rest of your career. Also get into gardening and hunting and fishing and save money and just try to have fun doing it. Outdoor activities are >>>> and with ground beef at 8$ a lb doesn't hurt to get some venison
2 years ago
Anonymous
>hunting and fishing and save money
That's a great way to spend money not save it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
how? I bought my bow from a pawn shop for 30$. Fishing pole I got at a garage sale. I crush fish and deer. I process my own.
2 years ago
Anonymous
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah and if you had spent that time working overtime and bought fish instead you come out ahead.
Its a great hobby but if you only do it to save money and don't actually enjoy it you might as well just work instead.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>working overtime
what the frick? I work a salary job. I actually work about 8 hours a week. The other 32 I'm shitposting or doing projects around the house or playing with my kids or hunting lol
2 years ago
Anonymous
meanwhile dudes are working their asses off full time and you call them lazy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
2 years ago
Anonymous
Unironically yes. Why should anyone care about you? What have you done to deserve anything?
2 years ago
Anonymous
No I would call them stupid if they aren’t making 6figs by age 30 though. Work smarter not harder
2 years ago
Anonymous
a lot of shit that people want to do is capped at like 50-60k
2 years ago
Anonymous
>hurr durr why doesnt everybody just get a job paying 6 figures
Idiot
2 years ago
Anonymous
Cope more peasant
also citing average vs median home pricies... dude's argument is exactly completely wrong, but it's disingenuous.
there's still quite a few houses in the 150-300k range; might not be what your favorite instagram influencer™ would want in a house, but such is life. it is absolutely possible to get a roommate(s) for a few years and save your money for the down payment on a house.
i get it's way more fun and comforting to blame everyone and everything for your problems vs taking responsibility, but in the end it does absolutely nothing for you.
Amen
2 years ago
Anonymous
>cope more peasant
The fact that you think everybody can have a high paying job just proves you're big dum
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nice bait. Although i do know people who legit work less than 8 hours of the week they spend in the office.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If this is your mindset you shouldn't even be on PrepHole. From a purely financial standpoint the smartest decision is to live in a pod and eat bugs
2 years ago
Anonymous
HHAHAHAHAH
Wagie logic always makes me chuckle. They just don't get it!
2 years ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/vAabxDL.jpg
>TFW Buddhist and can't do these things >TFW Buddhist and can't fully express how PROFOUNDLY disconnected from the damage done by government and corporations using expletives.
Oh well.
2 years ago
Anonymous
where do you live anon ...canada ?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Michigan
2 years ago
Anonymous
$2.79 here for local 80/20
Jesus, they feeding your cows gold leaf and caviar?
Rest of that is basically true. Except the phenomena has extended to much of millennial culture as a whole instead of just Black folk.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Bait
2 years ago
Anonymous
The money system is completely fricked, man. Come hang out with us on PrepHole. Dont hop into a shitcoin thread, read through a good macroeconomics thread.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>hang out with us on PrepHole. >Dont hop into a shitcoin thread
That's all PrepHole is. They need to make a different board for those gays.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's what PrepHoleposters want though. If they didn't want constant shitcoin threads, they wouldn't bump them and they would report them enough to force the mods to do something about it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Even with the state of crypto rn there is still a glut of scammers, it’s so hard to know if you’re speaking to a pajeet or a PrepHoleraeli because they’re both cognitively damaged.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You keep trying to drag me into an argument that I'm simply not having with you.
All I ever said and have been reiterating for like four posts was that if you need impulse purchases for your mental health, you should seek help.
I'm not saying impulse purchases prevent you from saving money. I'm not arguing about housing prices. I'm pointing out your habit is unhealthy.
Quit your hissy fit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Avg wage is about 51k
St8 up frickin lie
First google search say 69k
U big dum
2 years ago
Anonymous
also citing average vs median home pricies... dude's argument is exactly completely wrong, but it's disingenuous.
there's still quite a few houses in the 150-300k range; might not be what your favorite instagram influencer™ would want in a house, but such is life. it is absolutely possible to get a roommate(s) for a few years and save your money for the down payment on a house.
i get it's way more fun and comforting to blame everyone and everything for your problems vs taking responsibility, but in the end it does absolutely nothing for you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Economics is the study of how to reconcile unlimited desires with limited resources. With your limited resources you've decided to spend $800 a year on cold brew. Others forego this (and many other "comforta" you probably spend on) and make sacrifices so they can purchase houses or land. Pretty simple
2 years ago
Anonymous
non-argument
2 years ago
Anonymous
There's fault and responsibility homosexual.
Yes, you can point the finger and say it is their fault.
However it is your responsibility for your own well being. It is still achievable so plant the tree that your children may find shade under some day.
These people should take responsibility as well and be held accountable but the people fricking your life over now are dead, retired, sitting on a beach slugging back margaritas paid for by uncle Sam. It's a waste of time to pursue except at the ballot box (moreso primaries than general) or if you run yourself.
Plus there are a million boomer farmers right now with no one to take over their plot when their gone, and 100 million millenials and zoomers on their Dutch bros goyslop fix that will never pay for it. Look at it as an opportunity.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Plus there are a million boomer farmers right now with no one to take over their plot when their gone
They'll just sell it to developers who will part it out and make McSuburbs where once there was productive land. Has happened time and time again.
yes buying starbucks will improve your "mental health"
lots of small purchases are not inconsequential, anyone who wants to buy land has to save up money to do it and I'd rather have land than 2000 lattes
and how am I entitled? I saved money to buy land and it seems you believe you are entitled to housing, subscription services, overpriced luxury items, subsidized food, and benefits. I'm not rich and I still have land due to not wasting money
You're entitled because you're saying that the reason people don't have housing or land is 15 bucks a month how disconnected are all you fricks
2 years ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/11o2J7M.png
[...]
[...]
[...]
you guys realize that people up to the 1980s were able to buy houses on minimum wage? the salty zoomer is right
If you are struggling to make ends meet you obviously can't afford land until you have more income
If you are spending >50 at bar >100 eating out >50 on subscriptions >100 on new electronics >30 on vidya >100 on unnecessary new clothes
per month that works out to 430/month or 5k a year. if you were to save that money you could own land within a few years and these are the types of people that shouldn't claim no one can afford land in >current year
2 years ago
Anonymous
50 at bar.
You mean weekly right not a month
2 years ago
Anonymous
Do you seriously think people are spending that much?
I barely have £100 to spend on myself each month, usually that gets cut into by bills. I haven't eaten out since Christmas and I don't drink at all.
I'll pretend to be surprised you're so fricking delusional that you think Zoomers have 430 a month spare.
>and you have the audacity to say that "all you have to do is work hard and save"
Yes. You can still buy fixer uppers, most millennials just don't because they are lazy and would rather play video games. Most millennials I know pay people to do everything from painting rooms to mowing their lawn. Again, no one is debating with you. Its definitely harder now than it was; but to imply that its impossible or you'll never do it, well, not with that attitude. I guess I don't understand why people would sit around b***hing about that all day? Like what the frick? Do you expect it to get better?Expect the government to help lol? No. Bootstraps are literally your only option. Mature people realize this. Immature people whine about it and spend their money on cool clothes to impress prostitutes
>Do you expect it to get better
No, that's what makes it so frustrating, we're all acutely aware that we don't have enough political sway to get policies that help us.
It's easy to go "why are you whining" when you come from a generation who had it far easier.
>working overtime
what the frick? I work a salary job. I actually work about 8 hours a week. The other 32 I'm shitposting or doing projects around the house or playing with my kids or hunting lol
>8 hours a week
Holy frick you homosexual, how can you call people lazy when you work less in a week than I do in a day?
No I would call them stupid if they aren’t making 6figs by age 30 though. Work smarter not harder
Like I said before, truly delusional.
There's fault and responsibility homosexual.
Yes, you can point the finger and say it is their fault.
However it is your responsibility for your own well being. It is still achievable so plant the tree that your children may find shade under some day.
These people should take responsibility as well and be held accountable but the people fricking your life over now are dead, retired, sitting on a beach slugging back margaritas paid for by uncle Sam. It's a waste of time to pursue except at the ballot box (moreso primaries than general) or if you run yourself.
Plus there are a million boomer farmers right now with no one to take over their plot when their gone, and 100 million millenials and zoomers on their Dutch bros goyslop fix that will never pay for it. Look at it as an opportunity.
And why does all of that mean we can't complain about it? Those who rant so much about how fricking great they were and how others are lazy fricked us over. You don't think people are justified in their anger over that?
Cope more peasant
[...]
Amen
Lemme know how your plan works out when you're 70 and suddenly all those people you fricked over when you were younger now have the ability to out-vote you. I wonder what will happen to your retirement then?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I’m 30. I’m just successful. I’m a complete moron. The fact that I’m as successful as I am with my level of moronation really sets the bar low yet you still manage to get under it. Continue with your excuses man. I’m sure blaming other people for the success of your life will work out well for you
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm 21 and literally on above average wages for my age group, I didn't need you to admit you were moronic because it was obvious. It doesn't matter if you're "successful" in my generation, what past generations considered as successful won't even buy you a decent fricking quality of life anymore.
I'm blaming others for putting up barriers to success, like excessive housing prices, wages that don't match cost of living, increased education costs etc.
My own personal success isn't an issue, I've met literally every single one of the "personal success" milestones you'd expect from somebody in their 30s (career, long term partner, higher education etc) by the age of 21. The issue is that despite all of that I still barely have enough money to afford myself a basic QoL.
Your entire comment is just a deflection because it got pointed out you are so obviously delusional, so instead you try and attack my character as a cope for your own severely warped perception of reality.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I’m not reading all that
I’m happy for you though
Or sorry that happened
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thank you, I accept your regrets/congratulations and they are appreciated.
Let me get this straight...you're 21 and expect to be "sucessful" with no financial worries at that age? you are fricking delusional.
Totally missing my point. Wages for my age group haven't gone up since the 80s (at least in my country). Meanwhile things like bread and milk have at least doubled in price, houses are at minimum 2x more than they were when I was born, usually higher.
I think you're mistaking my complaints as expecting life to be given to me for free, I expect to have to work and plan ahead, what I do not expect is for there to be additional barriers added on top of what previous generations had due to incompetence/laziness/wastage of previous generations.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Let me get this straight...you're 21 and expect to be "sucessful" with no financial worries at that age? you are fricking delusional.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you're crying because you can't buy a house cash at 21 then welcome to reality moron.
1) being above average income at 21 just means you make a dollar over minimum wage. Very few people start making good money until their 30s or late 20s.
2) no you don't have any type of meaningful education at 21 except maybe trade school but then point 1 still applies since you need to run your own shit to make money.
Or just move somewhere you can actually afford to live.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>If you're crying because
Missing my point already. I don't expect to own a house at 21, I expect for it to be a realistic possibility in my future. >Dollars
I'm not in the US, I make substantially more than minimum wage. >Don't have meaningful education
Based on the American understanding of education sure.
I've been to University, I've got trades qualifications also and I work with a team of Design Engineers. I'm still working on getting more quals but I'm definitely not without them. >Just move somewhere
Already moved halfway across the country.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Based on the American understanding of education sure.
No based on the bologna process understanding of education.
Now i also know know you're s turd worlder, or a dropout either way not really that impressive in a world where a bachelors is considered base education in many fields.
And since you work "with" a team of engineers and not on it you obviously don't have an engineering degree. Especially since if you have a degree no one cares about "quals" or whatever.
You mostly come of as an entitled moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Turd worlder
lol my nation has a higher HDI than yours muttoid. >Dropout
Nope, try again >Base education in many fields
Working on the degree atm, currently have some Uni quals but got fricked by my apprenticeship out of the higher one that they promised so it's taking a bit longer. >Entitled
For wanting equal opportunities to those who came before me? and I'm the entitled one? you really don't see the irony in that? >moron
That's an apt term for yourself.
Your only arguments against me are assumptions or attacks on my character. Can't actually address my point, which is why you continue to ignore that wages haven't gone up since the 80s while cost of living has gone up.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>while cost of living has gone up.
It hasn't though. The amount of disposable income has steadily increased for the last 30 years. Housing is the only exception but that hasn't really mattered due to zero interest rates. But you're in luck if those fo through the room, (or fricked depending on how disposable you are to your employer). But you could have made exactly the same rant just before the crash in 2008, or the 90s crisis which caused total collapse in some parts of Europe. (Also a great example of how your idea that previous generations had it easy is wrong)
>apprenticeship
So you haven't actually been to university. You can't drop out after 1 year and then claim to have reached an "education milestone"
>my nation has a higher HDI than yours muttoid
Nope, because then you would be familiar with the bologna process if you had actually set foot inside a university.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It hasn't though
It has though, housing and rent is just one example of one of the many factors that has gone up, price of basic commodities like bread and milk also has. >Idea that previous generations had it easy
No, I said had it *easier*. They did not have the same barriers put up (like unaffordable housing). Are you just bad at reading or are you deliberately mis-understanding/mis-interpreting my posts? >Haven't been to university
Weird, because I've got a certificate from a university saying I have and I've got a university ID/Email? >Drop out after 1 year
I've never dropped out of any course I've been on, I don't have a bachelors sure (I'm working on that with the company I work for). This is what I mean by "based on the American understanding of education".
You don't seem to understand there are university level apprenticeships? one of the reasons I've gone down that route is to save what my parents have saved up in order to hopefully *some day* afford a house. The more I can get for free from my employer the better. >Nope
I mean, it does, I checked it before I posted.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Are you just bad at reading or are you deliberately mis-understanding/mis-interpreting my posts?
No I'm not you're just greatly inflating your perceived difficulties. Household disposable income has steadily increased and food especially has become MUCH MUCH cheaper relative to your income if you live in a first world country. I spend less than 10% of my income after tax on food every month. If you actually cook, food is cheap as frick.
https://data.oecd.org/chart/6La8
Housing is the only thing that hasn't become much cheaper over the last 30 years relative to income. But right now property prices are falling.
>American understanding of education".
And im talking about the bologna process which is the EUROPEAN SYSYEM for higher education. That your trade school calls itself a university doesn't make it one in an international context.
I live in a top 10 hdi country. You seem to assume im American yet you don't know where Bologna is, ironic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Food has become much cheaper relative to income
It hasn't, from memory (and I haven't looked for a few months to could be wrong) bread has gone up by double and milk has gone up by triple in the UK at least. Meanwhile wages have remained the same after adjustment for inflation. >Property prices are falling
Not where I am, since I started renting average rent has gone up by 2x where I live. I don't know about my exact city but I know my home town has had stable housing prices, my parents house has gone up in value. >Trade school calls
I don't go to trade school, you're still talking from the American (or foreign) perspective no matter if you reference the process. >Your trade school calls itself
It's not a trade school. In the UK we would call a trade school a college, it is not a college. >You don't know where Bologna is
Are you talking about the city or the process?
I know Bologna is in Italy but how is that relevant to it as a process?
Side note, if you're saying you're from Italy then you don't live in a Top 10 HDI country. So what are you actually trying to say with this?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>from memory
How about you instead show me the fricking data? Even if food has doubled in price across the board it Isn't a very big cost unless you're a hobo. Pic related
Ive already stated what the bologna process is but if you're to dumb to google i can see you had to drop out. It is very much related to what is viewed as a real university degree in the UK.
Im from Scandinavia.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>show me the data
I was going to be too lazy to dig it out, but I've decided to check anyway, here is my source: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/how-have-prices-changed-over-time
>Buh buh even if true i-it's not a big cost
Ah yes, so even if I'm right you'd just dismiss it as irrelevant anyway.
>pic related
Ignoring all the other costs of living like fuel, car insurance, rent, tax etc. Also I know for a fact more than 6% of my income goes on food (and I really don't eat fancy + all my meals are made at home). I'm very sceptical about that data.
>I've already stated
I'm well aware of what it is, why do you keep bringing this up as if it's relevant. I've never dropped out, I have done an apprenticeship giving me my current qual (at 21) and now I am working on securing funding from my company for BEng and eventually MEng. I work in the same office as people who already have these. Like I said, because you are foreign you are not grasping the concept of how an Apprenticeship works in the UK.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Bro have some self reflection you’re arguing over bullish on PrepHole grow the frick up
2 years ago
Anonymous
You do realise it takes two to have an argument right?
2 years ago
Anonymous
You are both dumbasses for arguing. Here is the deal. I'm right about everything and you are wrong. The other guy is 100% right. I love Gen Z. Whine Whine Whine, Raise taxes, vote blue, whine whine whine, the boomers, the government, the israelites, this, that.
At the end of the day you doofuses need to realize you make your own luck in life. You have your own trail. YOU. Not anyone else. YOU. Stop listening to morons or enablers. You should strive to be better than your peers. Strive to be better than others. Expect perfection. Shoot for the moon and land amongst the stars. I don't understand you people. I think you actually WANT to b***h and WANT to have a shit life so you can complain about it as opposed to actually working hard or saving money. You have a victim complex. Eventually, 1 day you will grow up and realize that will get you nowhere. So have fun in your echochamber, or make some changes. In the words of the black guy from Shawshank, get busy livin or get busy dyin
2 years ago
Anonymous
The last couple generations have a whole culture of glorifying their own ineffectuality and whining. It's weird. Just ignore people and move.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Definitely not conducive to success
2 years ago
Anonymous
Definitely not conducive to success
Sadly, they are what the hippys made of them.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Where do you live? What do you consider a decent quality of life? What do you do for work and what do you make a year?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>50 at bar
moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Gotta start somewhere. Lots of morons don't know how to be cheap here that is for sure. Piss all their money away and wonder why they don't have the cash to put a downpayment on a home or a car
https://i.imgur.com/11o2J7M.png
[...]
[...]
[...]
you guys realize that people up to the 1980s were able to buy houses on minimum wage? the salty zoomer is right
No they weren't. No one is even saying its easy, just don't be a moron. Be cheap, diy, and work hard.
>small impulse purchases that help your mental health >i need instant gratification multiple times a week otherwise i enter a spiral of depression
Seek help. Consumerism isn't a cure, it's a problem.
>be 30 >cant decide if i just want a house or a farm
Decisions, decisions.
But actually the problem is i can either afford a newish house in town i won't have to spend years fixing. Or a farm i will spend years fixing before its actually nice, + buying a farm in the sticks would effectively seal my fate as forever alone.
Making it obvious you're trying to hide may result in less fair treatment when you're finally found.
Or just getting raided as a suspected methlab
2 years ago
Anonymous
Hmm I would do what I did and buy a cheap-ish but expensive-ish house on some land in a town not completely rural but not completely away from the city. I'm close enough where people come over for bbqs and I can drive 5 min to a grocery store but its 20 mins to the freeway and 1 hour to nearest big city. I PrepHole'ed the shit out of it. Its currently worth about 140,000 more than what I bought it for. I got it 2800sq feet on 6 acres for 240,000$
2 years ago
Anonymous
>PrepHole'ed the shit out of it.
Which is exactly what I would like to avoid. Almost all houses on decent size plots are from the 40s or earlier here. A modern prefab house would save me decades of headaches with dodgy wiring, poor insulation and leaky pipes.
I still want land though so maybe I'll just take the project.
My plan is to start looking for a house next spring so i guess I will see how loan rates and house prices develop until then
Don’t help the whiny b***hes, more opportunities for the ones of us who are are determined to actually put in some work. I have my degree at the end of the month and then I’m going property scouting.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I don't anymore they make me laugh. I'm like yeah society really fricked you you have no hope just have a nice day.
Like Thomas Jefferson said, the thing about luck is, you tend to have more good luck when you work hard.
I saw zoneless areas in SC too. I think Appalachia is probably chill. Might be minor regs, but none of that "you can't build under 750sqft" stuff like
https://i.imgur.com/3Im0CD1.png
Hi, your friendly local zoning inspector here. Just to remind you, our township requires that you build at minimum a 1,250 square foot house on a permanent foundation.
All trailers, RVs, and Kaczynski cabins will be promptly bulldozed. :^)
The less populated and non-productive the soil, the fewer restrictions generally.
$10-20k/acre isn't uncommon outside Cali and metro areas.
How many acres some of you guys need is ridiculous, though. You're not starting a farm, and you'd have your hands full with 1/2ac of gardening.
Find a comfy rural community and buy your acre and you can larp homestead on that a few years before you realize it's more work that it's worth and go back to shitposting 20hr/wk here instead, but with a nice view now.
It also doesn't hurt to check the zoning if you really like the location of the land. Some zoning resolutions haven't been updated in decades, and still allow small homes/cabins.
>How many acres some of you guys need is ridiculous
An acre is 210 feet x 210 feet.
If you had a square plot of land that was 4 acres and built a cabin in the middle, you could stand on the roof and throw a baseball in any direction and it would land outside of your property.
An acre ain't shit.
With 10 acres you can still smell your neighbor's farts.
The point of buying property is to get away from subruban layouts where you're stacked onto of eachother.
pretty much this, when we bought our land, we were so fricking stoked >3.3 acres! that's hugeee!
then reality hit. we clear our fire break
people on the lot next to ours (north) clear their fire break
i can hear the dog
i can see them through the remaining trees
i can hear them talking on their back porch.
total distance between us and them is ~100'. they have 5 acres themselves.
when property developers take a tract of land and dice it into smaller lots for sale, they do so to maximize the number of plots they can get get, livability is not factored in.
Then throw in county/jurisdictional siting standards (such as clustering dwellings around a road or utility easement), and you can easily own say, 10 acres, but still have a fricking neighbor or 3 right on your ass.
reading this is raising my blood pressure. moving out of the city or burbs just to still be within quincenera distance of your neighbors....
2 years ago
Anonymous
yeah, it is it what it is -- not ideal, but tolerable
(except for the one time their adult son came to visit them with the ar-10 he got after a round of stimmy. mother fricker there's a great shooting spot a mile up the road, why do you think it's acceptable to shoot that close to someone else's house? )
don't let tales like this deter you from wanting to move out into the woods though, on balance it's paradise on earth compared to living in town. but do your homework and try to talk to the neighbors before pulling the trigger on a property.)
>can hear the dog
frick me. I have 20acres in the mts and can hear my nieghbors dogs like right there- inside even. And they are fricking hounds so the baying is constant. totally defeats the feeling of privacy and quiet.
2 years ago
Anonymous
yeah, mine let their german shepherd run wild as they think she'll drive off bears and cougars or some such. then they have this little pomeranian shit which yaps periodically during the day. i don't get the appeal of a dog like that. The tortured high pitched shrieking barks makes me wonder if it's the reincarnated soul of some great sinner from days of yore whose punishment is being stuck in the body of a rat.
2 years ago
Anonymous
just begging to be turned into a living football tbh
pretty much this, when we bought our land, we were so fricking stoked >3.3 acres! that's hugeee!
then reality hit. we clear our fire break
people on the lot next to ours (north) clear their fire break
i can hear the dog
i can see them through the remaining trees
i can hear them talking on their back porch.
total distance between us and them is ~100'. they have 5 acres themselves.
when property developers take a tract of land and dice it into smaller lots for sale, they do so to maximize the number of plots they can get get, livability is not factored in.
Then throw in county/jurisdictional siting standards (such as clustering dwellings around a road or utility easement), and you can easily own say, 10 acres, but still have a fricking neighbor or 3 right on your ass.
>I need absolute privacy and total isolation >this isn't ridiculous
okay, anons.
well fricker, if you move 30 miles out into the woods, a bit of privacy and isolation is not exactly an unreasonable expectation no?
how's your diverse city btw?
2 years ago
Anonymous
My city has ethnic food from all over and is well-run with low crime, thank you.
Ever compare crime stats from typical suburbs and typical "I'm living on 30ac in a trailer" lands? Enjoy your new neighbors picrel. The ones that aren't going to murder you for meth money are probably cool.
you must be blessed with good neighbors. i envy you. living next to morons and hoodrats will do that to you though.
Comfy suburbs are comfy. There's a middle ground between literal nowhere and the inner city that's nice. It can be suburban or just urban-adjacent rural, but you can't easily afford big acreage in those areas, on account of them being nice to live in.
Land prices are the end output of hundreds of millions of people collectively machine-learning the value of any given plot of land over decades.
If it costs $3000 per acre, there's a host of reasons why.
But if you're that outside the norm, maybe you can arbitrage lifestyles.
2 years ago
Anonymous
yeah, you've got no clue what you're talking about; maybe you're describing areas of appachalachia or some such?
out here land is a bit pricier than that. 30 acres would run you at least 400k. so like it would be "30 acres and a mcmansion" perhaps. white collar crime is a thing though i guess, right? specific to my situation though, i'm bounded on 2 sides by extremely hilly BLM forest, one neighbor to the north, and one to east. zero possibility of what you're describing. You definitely sound like a completely arrogant c**t with some pre-conceived notion of what rural living is like.
all that said, not sure why someone would be here, on PrepHole and tweaking over reading that people want privacy and peace and quiet away from all that hustle and bustle that you city c**ts just lubricate yourselves over.
>BLM land >mcmansions >30 acres would run you at least 400k.
Proving my point more or less.
Finding (middle-class) affordable large land tracts generally requires methbilly neighbors or extreme remoteness.
Crime per capita rates are generally as bad as inner cities in affordable lowgrade rural areas, which you don't live in, because you're somewhere in a Californian enclave that's out of reach for most middle class people now.
Nice rural areas with decent neighbors tend to have high acreage costs, even in Appalachia (I was just there scouting fwiw), as you have found yourself to be the case.
As soon as decent people start moving in, prices jump as desirability increases.
The methbillies mostly sell out or are rounded up, and more urban refugees come and turn it into yet another rural-chic yuppie paradise that you can't afford.
Exurbs, urban-adjacent rural, and high-grade farmlands are the best mix of low density, good neighbors, and amenities, but you're going to pay a few hundred K to buy a large tract there, because you're not the only one that wants it...
2 years ago
Anonymous
fair enough, and okay i concede i might have misread ya -- apologies.
we're in western oregon (lane co); rural development out here has basically been weyerhaueser or similar dividing and then selling off timber tracts after they've harvested/planted reprod timber. regarding price pressure, the minimum lot size for a new SFD here is 80 acres (big game migratory patterns.. you can do an impact analysis and a huge amount of red tape, but i wouldn't hold your breath about an approval) We were able to get our house built just before that went into effect; we're just over 7 acres across two adjacent lots. Since covid our house/land appreciated by about 300k. across both plots of land we paid just over 120k, well within range for middle class folks (which we certainly are, household gross is just shy of 130k)
I think this kind of wrongheaded anti-development mentality is going to make what we did impossible for anyone but uber rich californians (whole other kettle of fish there). Which sucks.
In the grand scheme of things our neighbors aren't bad, just a bit blue collar and lackadaisical about letting their mutts bark, but overall good people (as you've alluded to, they could be so, so much worse)
the point of my original post is that we specifically chose (as you put it) 'extreme remoteness', and even then, the annoyances we left town for followed us. Again though, i don't think there's anything wrong whatsoever about not wanting neighbors, or barring that, not being reminded constantly of their presence.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thank you for apology, anon. No worries.
West coast is batty, best of luck.
Midwest anon here, not good climate and lack of PrepHole makes it slowly bleed pop, no Calis want corn fields, but I want to get out for same reasons. As nice of an exurb as we live in, 6mo winters are ass. Not sure why Calis want to move to OR, you guys have almost the same bad climate as us.
Before anyone asks, Midwest is legit full, and you're not buying land unless you're planning on commercially farming it. It's not worth moving to anyway.
2 years ago
Anonymous
i gotta move states. every urban/urban adjacent area in my state is filled to the brim with degenerates and shitbags and completely unaffordable to boot
2 years ago
Anonymous
you have my sympathies anon, what state are you in now, and whatcha looking for?
2 years ago
Anonymous
ill give you 3 guesses. youll be right and then youll say 'frick off, we're full'. been looking at idaho since i have some family there. maybe nw arkansas/east oklahoma. maybe even new mexico or colorado but i want to do some driving around and see what some more states have to offer and what their "worst weather" is like. like ive heard arkansas just gets deadly humid and i want to know how bad that really is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Greenville, SC - Hendersonville, NC is calling you.
The north corner is PrepHole paradise, affordable land that's still fairly urban adjacent, forests, mountains, lakes galore.
You'll run into a paywall with large tracts, but I've seen lots of smaller 1-2ac tracts going for national-median prices. You can get fairly remote, maybe not Ted shack remote, but decently.
Summer's hot by Greenville, but very comfy up in the mountains. Greenville has some of the best weather in the US outside Cali for annual averages.
Just avoid Asheville. Tis a silly place.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Asheville
Actually I think it is based for the record, because it sucks up every nutter and homeless person from 200 miles away, cleaning up the rest of the small cities from this plague.
Live anywhere within 200mi of Asheville but not Asheville. You can't go wrong.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Maybe I'll take a look at the Carolinas. Thanks for the tip. I kinda started but I started with Raleigh and it got me worried that its just gonna turn into Californified mess in a decade.
I was hoping to get about 5 acres to set up a little hobby farm and some outbuildings. I really just want to some piece and quiet, some stars, and I want the government to stay off my nuts.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well, that region is going to be a magnet:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area
Anything over 0.75% change is blowing up. Asheville oddly isn't, but it's already crazy enough for several decades' worth of Californianization.
Same for Knoxville, TN, which is nearby, also very excellent weather and PrepHole, but is also blowing up.
People have discovered southern Appalachia. It's the next PNW, I'm afraid, but it'll probably be a solid place to live for 10-20 years before it goes nuts, if that bothers you. It's still early days, and much of the area is unzoned.
If you want nice, everyone wants it too, and they're all doing what you're doing and moving now that remote work is a thing. It's only going to get worse.
Find something on that list that's not losing pop (rustbelt blight isn't nice) but isn't blowing up either, probably in the TN/SC/NC/GA area for best climate, or TX/OK/AR if you want something drier.
Note that LA and much of AL/GA/SC/NC is blackbelt in the lowlands. The hills are hyperwhite, though. picrel (city-data.com, excellent resource)
2 years ago
Anonymous
I grew up in a 98% white suburb.
My high-school was 1,400 kids and there was one (1) black guy in my class.
I've lived in 3 of the top ten largest cities in the U.S.
I've lived in 14 states, from California to South Carolina.
Currently the nearest town is 247 people.
Your "opinion" is shaped by your experience. Which is nothing. >Dude in a trailer in the Ozarks is going to kill you for meth money.
San Diego was the meth capital OF THE WORLD for 2 decades.
Go ahead and post a timestamped piece of mail with your zip code and we'll compare crime rates to some white trash neighborhoods.
I dare you.
2 years ago
https://crimegrade.org/
>another angryanon >give me your address
I live in one of the dark green squares.
What's telling is how if anyone talks trash about exurbs and the nice rural areas, nobody has a chip on their shoulder about it. It's a joke, obviously.
Then you note that low price rural areas have issues, and it's a trigger...
Look at picrel. Nice urban-adjacent rural areas and exurbs are generally within commuting distance of an urban area and have the lowest crime rates, and the further away the more crime there is.
There's a strong correlation between low crime and high property values, for obvious reasons, and a strong correlation between urban proximity and general desirability.
Buying 40ac+ in one of the green squares is going to cost, generally, and most people will downsize to 1-5ac and deal with noisy neighbors and dogs, which is all you really need outside of commercial agriculture. A larpstead can be done with 1-2ac easily.
2 years ago
Anonymous
haven't the amish bought up all the green squeers by now? 🙂
2 years ago
Anonymous
lol, give them time, anon, it will soon be all theirs.
Clippity clop, they're on the march.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The UP and northern WI are practically Detroit, per capita.
Note in the other pic, that the far more populated west coast of Lake MI (half-suburban) is almost all green, as is the fully agriculturally developed southern MI.
Cows make for safe neighbors.
You can buy 50ac in the UP for $50k, sure.
Good luck buying just 20ac land around GR or up by Milwaukee without setting aside $200-400k just for the land, then another $100-200k to develop it for a small house/doublewide. Sure, if you're buying for $500k, it's doable, but you're in affluent suburb prices here, not affordable rural prices.
On the other hand, you can buy 2ac for $50k or less, slap a mobile on it, and be done for under $150k.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Michigan
Hahahahahahhahahaha >There were 478 violent crimes for every 100,000 people in Michigan in 2020 -- the third highest violent crime rate in the Midwest and 10th highest nationwide.
Is your dark green square one of the ones that's 10 minutes from the city with the 2nd highest murder rate in the U.S.?
I grew up in the suburbs.
And then I lived in metropolitan areas and rural areas.
You're saying "man the suburbs are the best without comparison!"- without having any other experience to compare it to.
You're a fricking idiot with zero life experience outside of your parents house.
You probably still sleep in the same bedroom you did your homework in from kindergarten.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>angryanon >that chip must weigh a ton
Exurbs and adjacent rural are comfy paradise. You get the best of both worlds.
MI's crime rate is mostly Detroit. If it scares you, there's other small cities that are quaint and well run, like GR.
Detroit exurbs are actually very nice, safe places, drivers aside.
The statistics underlying that map are based off nationwide data, not just Michigan's. A deep green in MI is the same as a deep green in IA or CA or FL. Your logic is not sound.
Just keep arguing against obvious logic. 85% of the country lives in ex/sub/urban areas for a reason, and much of the rest live in adjacent rural areas.
Practically nobody lives, definitionally, in the backwoods.
Society has spoken with its feet.
Isolation megalots are just not worth it, nor is living in some offgrid nowheresville backwoods tinytown to afford them. You can get PrepHole activities all over MI within a couple hours drive and still live in a nice, mid-scale neighborhood with amenities and utilities and 1-2ac for larpsteading.
Shit weather, though, hence my desire to carpetbag the Carolinas.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>85% of Americans live there so it must be the correct option.
.... >60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.
Your entire post is once again full of nothing but cope, attempting to justify the only side life you've experienced. >but my block of suburbia has the safest rating!! >when you got carjacked at the gas station you weren't in your neighborhood so it doesn't count, even though it's the closest gas station to where you live....
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Muh FOOOOOOOODS
Not worth never being able to relax
I paid $27k for 15 acres of old farmland in Georgia that has 30 feet of elevation change, a creek and 4 acres of forest.
This was 8 years ago and the market has changed but there's still deals out there.
zoomer cope.
You can either inherit land, get a share in a business that owns land, rent land, or earn a wage high enough to buy land.
The economy is in the shit and prices are mad, I got a 2M+ offer the other week entirely unsolicited and the local agent told me it was legit.
I'd rather be broke and healthy than a millionaire eating plastic trash and being sued by thots.
He's not going to do anything, he's going to continue to idly fantasize while staying in his dead-end job, or leaching off his parents, or the state tardbux system.
Don't tell me you actually fell for the NEET meme and spent your late teens and early 20's not making any money. If you have a job and even half decent budgeting skills this is extremely affordable.
If you can't even hold down a job there's 0 chance you could ever live off grid. Stop dreaming start working.
post ending in 46 is right
https://i.imgur.com/h9ibqii.jpg
Have any of you actually bought land to homestead on? If so, any buying traps i should be aware of?
Hello OP.
I bought for 230,000. 6 acres however all the land near my house is public land and woods/fields that no one really hunts on. So basically I have a mini garden on my property and I hunt and my neighbor has a boat and takes me fishing and we go to the farmers market and try to basically home grow or catch/kill 50% of our food.
"homesteading" ie: going and 'claiming' land is basically not allowed anymore, except maybe in Alaska, or you can do a squatters rights thing. But traditional homesteading of being a 'pioneer' (the profession) in the west and just claiming a piece is long gone. I think the last case in the US was in the 1970s.
As far as traps, not sure what you're asking; you will have to DIY your home. You should talk to people in the area. Lots of times they have insight on certain properties.
you can find plots all across the country that totals around $1k per acre it's kind of ridiculous. some countries exist today where only the 1% of the 1% could afford this kind of thing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
In the Japanese property bubble, stuff like the royal palace was worth more on paper than some entire US states
>on PrepHole >unwilling to live in alaska
quit being a moron you know shit like this is available all over the country anyways.
2 years ago
Anonymous
not an excuse
2 years ago
Anonymous
man, after my kid is done with highschool i might have to sell my house/land here in OR and upgrade to something like that.
we only have 7 acres and no winter; so WI or ME (maine's always been the goal; i just hope they don't lewiston the entire fricking state before i can move there) would be a huge upgrade.
7 acres just isn't enough.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>shit like this is available all over the country anyways
where is this magical cheap land that you speak of? certainly not in the continental US.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You need to be willing to go off grid and live in the boonies but it's there.
Plenty of marginal undeveloped land for 1k or less an acre.
yeah that's just land. might not even own the minerals underneath it
2 years ago
Anonymous
in europe it's completely nuts, I was lucky my father could buy a plot including a house on it for 200k€, that was back in 1988. Nice little neighbourhood in a forest, around 6km out a bigger town.
Til last year there was like one plot left in front of me, and apparently a swiss pensionist female doctor bought it.
Just the plot alone was 120k€ and the house is prefab and 350k, while ours is solid brickwork.
Now here's the funny part, our plots are 850m2, so 1/4 of an acre lmao
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well comparing it to the 80's isn't fair, you could get a lot more of everything back then
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, germanbro here. We can forget about ever having a decent plot of land anywhere here. I would say either the Spanish countryside or Norway/Finland are going to be our best bets.
You have to know a lot about land management.
The soil, erosion in the long term, the water table, prevailing winds.
Then there are things like local laws, development overlay, pollution sources.
For instance I know a guy who got cheap land only to find that a local mine dusted his property with toxic metals and he couldn't grow anything for sale and had to truck water in.
he was outraged but found that the mine had special permission to pollute and had compensated the PREVIOUS owners, who subsequently sold up.
I know another guy who found that he legally had to have a power line which he didn't think much of until he found out that the power company was going to charge him 10k annually to maintain a line he didn't even want.
A third guy I know had the power company tear down all his wind break trees because they thought the trees were too close to the power lines, thus exposing the whole side to heavy frost and killing all the plants around the immediate vicinity of the house.
Land is often sold for a reason, and if the owner is buying something nearby they could be trying to dodge something.
Realtors are not actually bound by any laws, the frickin israelites will just lie and run- so don't trust anything they say and hire your own agent for the valuation
I bought 45 acres in Maine for a good deal. It was selectively cut but still very wooded. Over the past couple years we have had blow downs, especially my pines because of the pervious logging. Free firewood, but still be aware of this.
21 acres in WV, haven’t done anything with it yet cause building house expensive. Kinda a little fricked. Susie have to redo the dirt road (long and steep) to the house site on top of the hill but it’ll be comfy secure and kino as frick in a few hundred grand.
Start taking soil samples at 50m intervals.
Don't be that guy who plans his garden visually and ends up growing everything in the wrong soil.
Plant wind breaks often, start raising all the seedlings/ cuttings now because 20 trees in a line means 20 potted and 100 cuttings.
Even if you havnt worked out the wind yet start the cuttings for when you have.
Check erosion straight away, maybe you need wire cages and can gather rocks, maybe you need to buy aggregate, maybe you need a clay plug.
The work isn't expensive if you direct it yourself so read a book if you have to.
Spent 5 hours fricking around in the kitchen.
Sorting, washing, cleaning.
I've freed up all my pickling jars for pickles, all my mason jars are ready for bottling, all my dry goods are in Tupperware and all my high value dried goods like nuts and fruit are in large recycled tomato passata bottles.
Found many small bags with wevils/ cupboard moths, all thrown out.
Only took five hours.
Hopefully I have the discipline to NEVER jam loose bags of shit in my cupboards again.
Knew I was set to inherit 40 acres of ground when my grandfather died. So in 2017 at the ripe age of 23, the run down house next to my inherited acreage went up for sale and I jumped on it, bought some equipment and went to work.
Now raising three kids there with my wife. Life is gud. Past few years I've been reclaiming old pasture, thinning out the wood lot, repairing roads for river access, building a sawmill, among other things
More recent shot of that same field. Cleared about 5 acres of under brush and saplings on this old pasture. Plan to put a cow or two on it in the future. And will be the site of my planned pole barn/shop
Oh boo hoo. I inherited about 40 acres of woods, about 25 of which is unusable wetlands, and a worn out tractor from 1967 worth maybe $1500, and a couple old shotguns and rifles. I wouldnt exactly call it a silver spoon in my mouth compared to a lot of people. I've busted my ass since I was 13 for everything else I have.
I was out on my own at 17. I bought my first house at 20, flipped it after renovating it myself, took my profit and used it to buy a run down old house that I'm again renovating myself. I only take home maybe 40k in a good year. And manage to support a family of five on it. You've probably blown more money on stupid shit than I've made in a year.
Pic related, that $1500 tractor you probably would have sold for scrap.
It's hard work anon. I still split most of my winter firewood by hand just for the exercise, and I can do the nice straight grain maple faster by hand than with my wood splitter
You can pick up ford n series tractors cheap, and a monkey could fix one up. Food for thought.
>yup just pulled myself up by my bootstraps with my free 40 acres that I was told about years in advance
Suck a dick with your larp about moving out at 13 or whatever. You were born on east street, full stop.
probably got his job through nepotism and down payment for that first house from the bank of dad too
Stay mad. Started an apprenticeship at 18. Rented a shithole basement apartment in a shithole city from 17 - 20, saved 15k for downpayment on first house. I even had my first kid at 21 with a girl I shouldnt have to throw a wrench in the works. Sold my house and everything I owned, left the city I was in and started fresh on my homestead.
All my parents gave me was a lesson in how to waste money, an introduction to alcoholism and a crash course on how to drunkenly yell and scream at your spouse over nothing for 20+ years. But go on, tell me what else you think you know about me. I'll wont about you when I'm working my land, pic related
yeah, i can fell and split wood all day, chainsaw of course for felling, but really digging my helko splitting axe -- use quite a bit of wood chips for landscaping, so there's that.
but man, it's the stumps.
turning a few acres of pic related into pasture without a tractor would be a massive undertaking (for reference, my garden is top center of pic). right now it's great for hiking with the kid, we can step outside our back door and be in the middle of an actual forest in minutes.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Stumps are a b***h, you need a dozer for that. Even a well rooted small stump will stop my 75hp 4x4 tractor dead in its tracks.
For that reason, I burn most of my stumps out, or let them rot.
2 years ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/wlCKNgU.jpg
Stumps are a b***h, you need a dozer for that. Even a well rooted small stump will stop my 75hp 4x4 tractor dead in its tracks.
For that reason, I burn most of my stumps out, or let them rot.
+1 on the dozer. Would be worth it just to pay to have a dozer come in to destump and level out where you want pasture. And find an old tractor to work your ground after
>yup just pulled myself up by my bootstraps with my free 40 acres that I was told about years in advance
Suck a dick with your larp about moving out at 13 or whatever. You were born on east street, full stop.
40 acres almost anywhere in the US is several years wages if not several decades wages, You literally skipped over decades of work and debt by virtue of your birth, full stop, regardless of anything else you did, so stop being a homosexual and accept you had a shortcut handed to you on a silver platter.
This coming from someone who had to scrape and work for years to buy 5 acres of woods
Your ancestors could have bought when land was cheap too. Why should anon have to bow and scrape because his family still had a small piece of land to give him?
Cry harder b***h, sorry about your luck.
My ancestors put in the hard work to leave me property, maybe if you weren’t such a c**t you could do the same for your descendants.
I’ve got a similar situation.
Utah.
Dad has 200 ish acres, uncle has the other 200 but his only son is a pile of shit so I’ll be able to buy that from him when he’s ready to let it go.
There’s another 160 acres I want to buy and I’ll be able to get it relatively cheaply because my dad and another land owner control the right of way, so naturally that land isn’t valuable to anyone but the neighbors.
I’m working in mining, 130k a year in a state with no income tax and I’ll be saving and selling my real estate investments to pay for developing the cedars and sagebrush into a farm/ranch that I can work.
Best part is there’s public land one way and Indian ground the other way.
They will never develop the Indian land so there will be miles and miles of undisturbed wilderness right next door.
I’m 30 and gonna inherit about 300K in the next 5-10 years (hopefully not, but not even Grandma lasts forever.) Where should I look at purchasing land/building a home?
I bought 40 acres in Northern Michigan.
I was going to tax auctions but kept getting beat out on my bids because I only had a 50-55k cash budget. Turns out it was a blessing in disguise because all the 80 acre plots I was looking at in the UP were a 10+ hour drive from grand rapids and the years of land prep would have been much less productive with it being so far away.
I settled on the 40 acres 2 1/2 hours from home and bought it for just over 35k. Now I've just been planting fruit trees and cover crops, this year I'm putting in a small "shed" and digging swales.
I'm pretty hype tbh senpai. When I'm driving up I just get more and more excited as I get closer.
One word easement. Run Run Run, it'll be a fricking nightmare, going either way for you or for someone else.
Too true. Distance really does matter & clearing land can be a real time killer.
Just got 30 acres in the U.P. drive is a bit of a killer 4 hours away, 2 to 3 hours would have been much nicer.
Looked at it before spring & didn't look like too much of a job to clear. Went back after everything grew up & yeah it will be a job & a half to clear, likely years without having to hire it out.
One word easement. Run Run Run, it'll be a fricking nightmare, going either way for you or for someone else.
Too true. Distance really does matter & clearing land can be a real time killer.
Just got 30 acres in the U.P. drive is a bit of a killer 4 hours away, 2 to 3 hours would have been much nicer.
Looked at it before spring & didn't look like too much of a job to clear. Went back after everything grew up & yeah it will be a job & a half to clear, likely years without having to hire it out.
Michigan
Michigan is such a slept on PrepHole state it's unreal
The climate is horrendous.
It's phenomenal 3 months out of the year. Then you want to leave.
7+ month winters with 4-6ft deep drifts and endless cloud cover are miserable.
The cloud cover is actually WORSE than Portland, year-round, just the sunny days are a little more spread out. The hours of rain (not fall) are WORSE than Portland too.
There's a reason they call it the PNW of the Midwest.
There's weeks you can't leave your place without a serious offroading truck.
The soil is loamy and poor north of GR, there's a reason it's in the Midwest yet covered in low$$ softwood forestry.
Also it's flat, almost totally flat.
Geology is blandness.
You can get wooded bare-minimum-$ acreage in the Carolinas/TN, and you get hills, views, and a warm climate with it. Also those states don't have Detroit in them, a fact that cannot be understated for how it affects state politics.
Purely on land and local politics, there's southern OR which is gorgeous in ways MI is not.
I was considering MI for a while, but god no that climate, why? So many better options.
The only reason to live in Northern MI is a summer lakehouse. For that, it's hard to beat, and it's far nicer than northern WI.
>wahh, everything is too expensive life isn't fair
Ok, thanks for sharing. Anyway-
I'm on 10 acres in the Sierra Nevada mountains. If you live in the mountains or foothills, before you buy, you really have to be conscious of the topography. If you look in the summer and the property is on a north facing slope, may seem great then, but in the summer you can be 30f colder than a lot a quarter mile away. I am on the top of a hill, in the winter on days where my ground is thawed out at 8am, I can drive a few hundred yards away and the ground on a shaded property is still frosty at 11am. If you live in AZ/NM you may want this though. It's really hard to know if you haven't spent a lot of time in the area before moving there. Wells are another big challenge, it's a big investment and not necessarily guaranteed you will have high pressure, good water for a reasonable drilling price.
Hi, your friendly local zoning inspector here. Just to remind you, our township requires that you build at minimum a 1,250 square foot house on a permanent foundation.
All trailers, RVs, and Kaczynski cabins will be promptly bulldozed. :^)
The only permit required in my county is septic.
They don't give a shit if you don't have electricity or water or if you make a tree fort out of pallets and live in it.
But if theirs raw sewage that can contaminate a water way or neighbor's land they'll evict you from your own property.
Central Georgia (state not country).
That's actually law in all the surrounding counties (friend works for the health department that deals with permits).
If you live on your own land then all that's required is the septic.
If you want to rent it out you need a "certificate of occupancy" so you'd need water and such.
Just to add-
Part of the reason the codes are this way is because we get people from other states (like florida) that buy hunting land and drive their motor home up for a couple months during deer season.
Georgia has about 10 million people, about 2 million are in Atlanta. So 8 million people in the largest state east of the Mississippi River means its extremely rural.
What do you guys think of this cabin on 14 acres near a large ski resort and state forests? It looks like a good deal but I'm not sure if I want to be tied down to NY and the northeast. The deadline for offers is tomorrow evening and I'm still undecided.
>less than 2 miles from the ski resort.
Badass.
But.
That property gets snowed in during the winter.
Also >land is level
So when that snow melts it turns into a slush pit.
Just something to think about.
ummm, that sounds like bliss
why are you posting it instead of secretly making an offer?
>less than 2 miles from the ski resort.
Badass.
But.
That property gets snowed in during the winter.
Also >land is level
So when that snow melts it turns into a slush pit.
Just something to think about.
>implying I'm going to post a picture of my home or family on PrepHole.
I've seen weaponized autism in action. I'm good. Don't believe me. I don't care. I'm just saying that house that anon posted was the size of the room I'm in right now. Acerage is great, but don't buy a 600sq ft home unless you intend on making a 1500ft extention
Even with the state of crypto rn there is still a glut of scammers, it’s so hard to know if you’re speaking to a pajeet or a PrepHoleraeli because they’re both cognitively damaged.
That's what PrepHoleposters want though. If they didn't want constant shitcoin threads, they wouldn't bump them and they would report them enough to force the mods to do something about it.
That's what PrepHoleposters want though. If they didn't want constant shitcoin threads, they wouldn't bump them and they would report them enough to force the mods to do something about it.
Crypto is a giant ponzi scheme and its not coming back
Cozy. I'm definitely staying. Cheap(ish) land with homes are still available. There are a lot of old folks selling and moving off to Florida.
I hear the ticks are out of control there though, like, have taken down an entire moose by themselves bad
2 years ago
Anonymous
600sqft is fine for one person.
1000sqft is sufficient for two.
Add 300sqft per kid.
I've been in plenty of "cottage" sized houses that were fully livable.
The rest is consumerism.
You don't need a barndominium to be happy.
If you think you do, you'll never be happy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No garage? Where will you keep your lawn mower? Your gas? What about a tractor? Will you have a tool box? You have no garage or pole barn in this 600sq ft closet. I don't know why I'm even arguing this. You're obviously arguing to argue. Anyone who ACTUALLY OWNS a home or ACTUALLY OWNS land knows that 600sq feet isn't enough to maintain a property of that magnitude. I will no longer respond to your mindless babble. Continue to preach about how bad consumerism is from your iphone/apple/windows device you absolutel hypocrite. Suck my dick
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nobody includes a garage in the square footage.
I assume you'll have a garage or shed.
The property listing that started this says it has 2 sheds.
What are you going on about?
2 years ago
Anonymous
totally different poster anon, but that property specifically is not meant to be a primary residence. it's a vacation cottage, full stop.
at any rate though there's nothing stopping someone from buying a few pier blocks and plunking down a pre-fab shed for tools and the like. but 14 acres with lake access for that price is/was a steal -- the cottage would be great for vacation.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Also, it's not like you need to manage all 14 acres. You can just let 13 of them grow wild for seclusion's sake; your own personal woods.
Regardless of lot size, plenty of people live in houses that small. You guys need to get out more or something if you think the whole country's/world's living in 2500sqft houses or that they're remotely necessary.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What size house do you live in, hypocrite
2 years ago
Anonymous
kind of, yeah.
mine's 3 bed, 2 bath, 1700 square feet. living/master are completely cavernous and could easily be 1/4 the size, the other two bedrooms are 10x12 and could be a bit smaller and still totally livable. if you've ever been to a house built in the early 20th century (or earlier) it's amazing how small / low everything feels. a 600 ft 2bed 1 bath house would be passable, not ideal, but passable.
again though, the unit we're discussing is definitely a vacation house. shit, wife and I have rented similar ourselves on the beach for a week and it was fine. would we want to live there necessarily full time? nahhh, but 14 fricking acres next to a lake? hell yes for a vacation house for a few weeks in the summer.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>hell yes for a vacation house for a few weeks in the summer
What about a few weeks in the winter? There's a ski resort literally across the street from that listing.
Looks sweet, pond could be pretty fricking cool if you stocked it with trout. I wonder if it is spring fed? House is gonna be cold af in the winter, insulate the frick out of it.
Seems to good to be true. Judging from the comps in the area there must be a catch. Ellicotville is a nice little town. HV is tiny at 750ft vertical but often gets killer lake effect snow...I wonder if knuckleheads from Buffalo are a problem on weekends etc..
Looks sweet, pond could be pretty fricking cool if you stocked it with trout. I wonder if it is spring fed? House is gonna be cold af in the winter, insulate the frick out of it.
>I wonder if it is spring fed?
its says that right in the description
only ever bought land to add to our pre existing ranches. Most often I see my friends not recognizing some land feature issues like drainage areas and other major downsides one may not recognized if they aren't used to land buying.
Thinking about moving from Texas to up north to somewhere like Minnesota or Wisconsin. Is it worth dealing with the 6 months of snow for 2-3 months of decent weather?
My parents own 40 acres in northern Minnesota that I've been camping and stuff at. It's all wooded and kind of swampy so not the ideal place to build a homestead. I intend on buying land out west somewhere when I have the means to do so and building a homestead there. If things don't work out for whatever reason, I'll do something on my parents' land.
>northern Minnesota
Worse weather than AK, not even kidding. Northern Midwest is just misery.
Godspeed to greener grass (or at least less soggy) and sunnier days, anon.
i dont understand why anyone lives in the dakotas. if anyone here is from there i am pretty curious what you like about it. all pictures ive seen look like flatland as far as the eye can see with brutal winters on top of that.
if you got offered to go homestead with your friend and his wife on his property, and neither of them have strong feelings what location it will be... would you do it, if they were Black folk? serious question.
i looked at land for sale here in missouri, fricking boomers wanting 6-10k an acre for shitty hard packed clay they fricked up with a tractor can't die soon enough
Really want to get some decent rural land and am trying to save up. I know this is a dumb question with no easy answer: is 50K-100K good to buy five acres virgin and put a dwelling on it? Most of the cheap land online sucks, so I figure I need to look around on foot to get a good deal.
Zillow can help but yes often driving around in the country is the way to go. I would suggest waiting a few months to a year for the market to drop a bit more.
As far as what a good deal is it depends on where you are and the surrounding area and taxes, etc. You pretty much scream young 20s naive kid
Naive late 20s. Spent most of my life being a shut-in and trying to make baby steps towards getting PrepHole since I cannot stand being stuck in a city.
how close is it to a town, is it in a swamp, can a section be cleared for you to build and live on, can it have a well put on it?
I haven't a single plot in mind. My dream plot is something fairly remote, flat, and I can sustain myself off gardening/orchards/keeping some animals like goats and chickens. I am willing to figure out how to PrepHole so I can stretch my money as far as I can.
50k or so would likely get you the land.
figure another 10 for septic, then probably another 10 for a well. mains power would be the wildcard, if it's already on site, you're set, else.. the sky's the limit on that one. (a beefy enough solar setup for your well would be north of15k probably, mostly in batteries.)
would be worth checking whatever jurisdiction you land on for what kind of dwelling requirements they'd have. (i.e. can you just drop a prefab shed on it, with or with a foundation)
more than likely all of this would need to be a cash deal mind you, getting a bank to fund something like this is just not going to happen
I see. I figure I might try to LARP by sacrificing comforts. I realize if I want a "modern" home in the middle of nowhere it's going to be difficult and expensive to set up. If I can have primitive equivalents then I can use those as drop-in replacements or go without if I decide it's not worth it.
the silver lining is that if you wanted a traditional house, it's actually easier, as you can get bank financing. in our case it was actually cheaper (by a good margin) to build a new house out in the woods than it was to buy an existing one.
new house on 3.x acres was about 250k; which in my area (lane county, OR) an equivalent house without land would have been easily 350-400k (pre-covid). basically you can take out a construction loan that would fund the land purchase, site dev, and construction costs. upon completion it rolls into a conventional fixed rate mortgage. the appreciation offsets the PMI requirement. i forget the exact percentage we had to come up with out of pocket for a down payment, but it was no where near 20%.
permitting and approval from the county is of course a challenge, hopefully where you're looking they have a more amenable attitude towards new development. oregon is very much anti-development; particularly in farm/ag zones.
Small world. I am a WA guy and have been to Oregon. I think I prefer staying in-state for the climate and scenery. I love the greenery here. That new construction deal you're talking about sounds sweet - <20% down makes it very feasible if I continue saving up. I don't have a solid plan, but I have been exercising great discipline to set aside as much as I can in the meantime; I am convinced that I am not meant for city living.
>Build new vs buy used
Absolutely build new (once prices return to normal).
$/sqft is the same everywhere I've looked between 70yo houses and 10yo houses, with similar finishes, even without.
The markets are moronic.
>itt men of all ages arguing with each other about the economy because none of them are smart enough to realize that it is the eternal israelite that is to blame
Let's share a laugh and look at an example of why I will move from Germany to the US within the next few years (I'm already a citizen so frick off).
This is an excerpt of a listing for a house:
"Auch das dazugehörige Grundstück lässt durch seine Großzügigkeit keine Wünsche offen. Ob Blumenstauden, Hochbeete für die Gemüsezucht oder Platz für die Kinder zum Spielen: Auf 210 Quadratmetern ist alles möglich."
Translated: "The property surrounding the house leaves no wish unfulfilled due to how spacious it is. Whether you want to plant some flower beds, grow vegetables in a raised bed, or give your children a place to play: everything is possible on 210 square meters."
Looking more closely on the listing they made a mistake as the property is 880sqm, while the house is 210sqm. 880sqm, which is between a fifth and quarter of an acre, is already considered huge here. Mind that this is in bumfrick nowhere.
The listing price is 250k Euros.
There is no way all land in Germany costs this much. Give address.
How can anyone afford to farm at those prices? A typical 150ac farm would cost like $6M/yr in financing. They don't net anywhere near that much, even in the prime of the Midwest. The economics don't make sense there.
At any rate, Germany is like the more developed parts of the US crammed into a smaller country. Maybe the California of Europe is Netherlands-London-Belgium region, but still Germany is still very developed, no? $1M/ac is ridiculous, but I'm sure there's cheaper land about.
But you are welcome to escape socialism for US regardless, deutschfren, just we're following on your guys' heels very closely these days. Nobody learns, all silver tarnishes.
We don't have miles and miles of acres that just can be used for housing, unironically every inch in germany, from the mountains to the forests to the smallest river has some kind of use and needs to be noted down somewhere.
The only people with huge land are farmers that still have their property from when they upended the monarchies and sheeeet, and even they can't easily just turn around and make their forest or farmland to a housing zone because of the exorbitant amount of bureacracy needed.
Still waiting for that address.
I am doubt.
Sounds like ecosocialist nightmare.
They want that here too. In time, all in time. Picrel does not include state-owned lands, which can be massive in certain states.
>Still waiting for that address. >I am doubt.
not sure why you don't believe it, germany has a population density of 240 per km2 (623 people per mi2), checked some shitty statistics and it seems that's in the very high range for USA state standards
pic related is 1400m2 or 0,35 Acre, for 1.7 million euro
Still waiting for that address.
I am doubt.
Sounds like ecosocialist nightmare.
They want that here too. In time, all in time. Picrel does not include state-owned lands, which can be massive in certain states.
https://i.imgur.com/Tcz7cem.jpg
[...]
do note that there isn't any possibility of buying "cheap" land. Pic related is around 1 acre for under 100k
But there's always, ALWAYS some kind of catch, for ex. no electrical/plumbing/water connections, near an airport etc.
https://i.imgur.com/AvdUZiv.jpg
We don't have miles and miles of acres that just can be used for housing, unironically every inch in germany, from the mountains to the forests to the smallest river has some kind of use and needs to be noted down somewhere.
The only people with huge land are farmers that still have their property from when they upended the monarchies and sheeeet, and even they can't easily just turn around and make their forest or farmland to a housing zone because of the exorbitant amount of bureacracy needed.
Bumping for
Exactly. Also, you can’t build structures or get a permit for living there. Here in Germany there is some kind of law that you can only build within a certain range of a community or some shit. So even if you get a parcel of wooded land in the forest you’re not allowed to build a cabin or live there. You’d just never get the permits. If you mention this to the average Michel they don’t even get the problem. Why farm when you can go to LIDL?
There is no sentiment of homesteading or farming on a small scale like in the US.
>Still waiting for that address. >I am doubt.
not sure why you don't believe it, germany has a population density of 240 per km2 (623 people per mi2), checked some shitty statistics and it seems that's in the very high range for USA state standards
pic related is 1400m2 or 0,35 Acre, for 1.7 million euro
do note that there isn't any possibility of buying "cheap" land. Pic related is around 1 acre for under 100k
But there's always, ALWAYS some kind of catch, for ex. no electrical/plumbing/water connections, near an airport etc.
Exactly. Also, you can’t build structures or get a permit for living there. Here in Germany there is some kind of law that you can only build within a certain range of a community or some shit. So even if you get a parcel of wooded land in the forest you’re not allowed to build a cabin or live there. You’d just never get the permits. If you mention this to the average Michel they don’t even get the problem. Why farm when you can go to LIDL?
There is no sentiment of homesteading or farming on a small scale like in the US.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So what are the uses for such a land?
2 years ago
Anonymous
that's how it is throughout large swaths of the US as well.
most familiar with oregon, but here it's
>you cannot park an RV on your land for more than 2 weeks at a time without moving it >you cannot live in a shed/cabin more than a few weeks at a time >you cannot build a permanent structure without permits (which are nigh impossible to get)
oregon in particular is quite concerned with preserving farm and forest land, and the pendulum has swung HARD against new development in these areas. i can see both sides of the coin; i wouldn't want to live in an area with a bunch of broken down methwagon RV's parked all over creation, without any septic or other infrastructure, they're at best an eyesore.
but i think they need to open up more to homesteading; as in allowing small structures with or without foundations/mains/wells etc, and let people do their own thing on land that they own.
tl;dr it's a balance, a really hard balance to get right.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>oregon
The entire West Coast is a lost cause, along with the rest of the Red Zone of government control to the west of Denver (and Denver itself).
However, there are still many areas with easy permitting for new structures, even shacks/RVs, though not always.
That window is likely shutting in the next generation. Too many HOAbrained Nancies want to control everything and remove all the "eyesores" of people living freely and unchained to bank loans. I'm amazed you can still build houses with wood you milled yourself. Or wood at all. Some day soon...
Of course, the business class can't fathom maintaining current population levels, so we just keep slamming more people into the country and everything will fill up, get zoned, and eventually restricted, and envirosocialists will give trees and turtles more rights than humans, because carbon or somesuch bullshit.
Exactly. Also, you can’t build structures or get a permit for living there. Here in Germany there is some kind of law that you can only build within a certain range of a community or some shit. So even if you get a parcel of wooded land in the forest you’re not allowed to build a cabin or live there. You’d just never get the permits. If you mention this to the average Michel they don’t even get the problem. Why farm when you can go to LIDL?
There is no sentiment of homesteading or farming on a small scale like in the US.
https://i.imgur.com/Tcz7cem.jpg
[...]
do note that there isn't any possibility of buying "cheap" land. Pic related is around 1 acre for under 100k
But there's always, ALWAYS some kind of catch, for ex. no electrical/plumbing/water connections, near an airport etc.
Well, I won't fully believe it until I see it I guess.
Don't you love your manicured garden prison cell?
You can look at the trees, just don't touch.
You've more or less reverted entirely to feudalism then. Take your small cottage, work in your corporate fief, pay the crown its massive annual due, and look at all the beautiful land around you owned by the privileged gentry.
Whatever you do, don't hunt or cut down the lords' woods.
3 steps, from serfdom and back again.
Urban Americans are all too happy to join you. Most of them have never even stepped foot on a farm.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You've more or less reverted entirely to feudalism then
I brought this up to my friends as well because it really is like that. But it's a wagies dream here and you can consoooom so not that many people are bothered by it. In fact they do look down on 'muh freedom' trumpers and americans. But I think this is mainly because of leftists being so vocal on social media. So many people blacked out their profile pics during the BLM riots or posted something about abortion.
The good thing is that I'm in a good position and I am looking forward to a change, it makes no sense to just complain and b***h about stuff. It is how it is.
I hate when traps show up at the auction
same, hard to focus on bidding when I have an erection.
yes, first property was 3.3 acres, and the second (adjacent to first) was 3.7. kind of slow-rolling a homestead though; wife and i are both still working, but working on getting as much self sufficiency out of our land as possible. it doesn't happen overnight.
things to look into:
>can i build
>what permits do i need
do not, do NOT under any circumstances ask the county/jurisdiction these questions outright regarding a specific parcel of land. What will happen is the planner will make a note regarding the question on that specific parcel. So you'll potentially lose your plausible deniability (and if it comes to it, an as-built permit exception)
Talk to a land use lawyer, and look into similar parcels that were granted permits/approval
>water
you'll want to look into the wellmaster's log for that area, it should have a record of every well that was dug, including the depth and flow rates.
does it get enough rainwater for a catchment to supply your needs year round? do your math on this, depending on your goals.
>utilities
if there isn't already mains power nearby, be prepared to spend some serious $$$ to have it run out to the parcel. depending on the jurisdiction, generators and/or solar might not be enough to get your permits. solar is deceptively expensive, particularly in regards to storage.
Not OP but I like daydreaming about such things. What is your eventual goal? Total sufficiency?
if only 🙂 i don't think you can realistically be totally self sufficient. chainsaws, wood chippers, tillers, tractors, etc etc all require fuel, and more importantly - replacement parts. pvc cement dries out and gels within a few days of being opened, pumps break down, and so on.
It's more of a hobby and to offset our reliance on driving into the grocery store for food. and it's a great hobby tbh, growing as much of your own food as possible, learning just about every DIY skillset, overall it's incredibly gratifying watching some bare bit of dirt turn into something, that you built with your own two hands.
Sounds pretty comfy honestly. Best of luck. What state? If you’re comfortable sharing.
np at all, we're in southern oregon.
total cost of the house + land was about 250k. (60k or so for the land, all the permits, site dev, and the actual construction). In our case, we're about 35 minutes away from the nearest 'city' (10 from the nearest town), so if you're okay with a bit of a commute, it's really quite reasonable. definitely beats buying a massively overpriced existing house
one other benefit to building is that the appreciation generated by building will put you way over the 20% threshold for PMI. we only had to put down 5% to start the construction process.
That sounds great. I live nowhere near there but would love to try something similar, especially since housing seems so absurd. Didn’t know what you’re doing could be done for that cost.
ill be near southern Oregon to fight fires. Any guidebooks for poison critters and plants you can recommend?
I work in lake county southern Oregon. What area are you in?
We've been looking for places in Southern coast to homestead if we can find the land in a few years.
we're in lane county, just about on the douglas co border. I'd avoid lane county though anon, the building restrictions are just nuts now, county takes FOREVER to act on anything, and the prices are insane.
FWIW i love lake county (and really the entire oregon outback area)
Dog Lake and Marster Springs are some of the best camping spots I've ever been to. Astronomy trips at the top of hogback with my pops when i was younger were great memories as well. Buddy of mine has been buying up plots in christmas valley on the cheap (i think he's up to 40 acres now) -- is there a reason why you'd want to leave lake county though -- it seems pretty amazing (if you can work remotely or already have a job) and the land is dirt cheap.
being able to drive for HOURS and only seeing one or two other cars makes me miss where i grew up in eastern oregon.
So, did you buy the land outright and then finance the build? Could you please tell me how you paid for the whole project? Thanks, anon.
sure thing anon.. so how it worked:
starting in october of 2018:
1. found a parcel of land from our realtor (60k)
2. contacted adair (wouldn't recommend them all things considered; but it was the cheapest route to a house, and streamlined the permit approval -- they do so many permits / plans, that they basically are rubber stamped vs bringing in custom plans from an architect)
3. adair quoted us a total price for the build (~140k)
4. contacted a contractor out here who does septic (10k), site dev (~30k), and well drilling (~12k)
5. adair's sister company (AFS) did the actual construction loan -- which included site dev, permits, raw materials, etc. as well as the purchase of the land itself. (which was your main question -- the construction loan covered the cost of the land)
once construction was completed in august of 2019, the entire construction loan was converted into a traditional mortgage -- and due to the appreciation from the bare land to house + land, the 20% equity threshold for not requiring PMI was met.
we kind of lucked out because the CUP (conditional use permit) was already in place for the parcel we bought -- otherwise it would have been an extra 5 or 6 months of being dicked around by the county before we could build (which would have effectively blocked our build -- as the total duration of the construction loan was 12 months)
lemme know if you have other questions or whatnot, happy to help =P
Nice, thanks for the input. I'll be there one day. I had a well thought out response with questions but had a ban so couldn't post it, so I don't want to type it out again, but I appreciate the insight.
Bought 35 acres in BC. Not sure about homesteading, but am going to build a cabin.
>do not ask the county questions about a specific parcel of land
I used my personal email to inquire about some permitting/bylaw restrictions. Might have fricked up because I'm currently in the process of building a structure that violates bylaw. My hope is that upon discovery, it will have been years since the inquiry and the email address will not be noted.
Also, I've been told that the inspector covers such a large territory that inspections occur on complaint only.
gotcha, yeah you should be okay? it's more if you own a parcel, and get told 'no' regarding some land use decision-- then do it anyways; you're in a far worse position than if you didn't bother asking and did it anyways.
also be wary with drones/aerial photos -- some counties (mine for example) will review aerials to look for unlicensed/unpermitted structures. pretty shitty IMO.
Man, it seems like if you aren't already young and making a shitload of money a decade ago then buying land is just impossible. Everyone in the last generation of my family was about to work low wage jobs and, eventually, save up and afford 30 or 40 acre plots. Large enough that you can shoot or blow shit up and nobody bothers you.
Now nobody I knows can buy frick all. Even my friends making better salaries.
What else if different is that buying big land plots just seems to not be a thing anymore. A big corp will just part-out a 30 acre plot, 1 or two acres at a time and charge insane prices for them. So then only insanely wealthy people are buying tiny 1 or 2 acre plots and building crazy McMansions that are so close they nearly touch. Which just replicates city culture and is complete ecocide.
yeah my county (lane, oregon) took a pretty drastic approach to preventing that kind of development.
basically they're using some archaic 'big game' migration route to block any and all development (without doing some crazy impact studies) to parcels OVER 80 acres
it's kind of nuts, but i guess what was happening is exactly what you described -- someone (typically an out of stater, CA usually) swoops in and buys 20+ acres, divvies those lots into smaller plots (~3a) and sells each one individually for north of $60k so now the hinterlands are just another suburb with really big lot sizes and gaudy mcmansions.
That is interesting, so would you say it is working as intended? Are things going better?
hard to say, it was just implemented (Nimpkish vs LUBA i believe is the specific, relevant case) I also misspoke, they're blocking development of SFD's on lots less than 80 acres. While it does prevent suburban sprawl, it also wienerblocks middle class people from ever moving out into the country, homesteading and the like. which truly is a shame.
my take is that an 80 acre minimum is way too high; there aren't that many lots of that size, and you'd have to be able to cough up a few hundred K (minimum) to buy that much land -- so it really just prices out the middle class -- especially since getting a bank to lend on a plot of bare land is nearly impossible.
Lane county in particular has been smoking the 'walkable cities, sustainable development' bullshit for a while though. I think the county (and state really) are on the fringes of the agenda 2030 nonsense. Basically using zoning and property taxes to force people back into towns. Where they've banned single family dwelling zoning ordinances; and are in the process of shitting up every decent neighborhood with duplexes, quads, apartments etc. It's this gross progressive notion that you can achieve true equality by making everyone equally miserable.
Best bet would be to find a farmhouse or other SFD on some acreage, as I believe they'll let you replace existing structures; but it's always a gamble. You wouldn't know if you could proceed with your project until you've already bought the land, and ultimately it's all down to the discretion of the planner handling your case. Be nice, they are VERY fricking sensitive, and can be quite spiteful if you get on their bad side. Petty bureaucrats, the lot of them. Another fun fact, planning is a lot like the legal system in terms of precedent. So if some 20 year old shithead who works in land management vetos a build for some reason, that decision will be cited in subsequent decisions. disagree? get ready for a multi-year court battle to get it reversed
Okay. That's interesting. How would it be fixed? Lower the limit like you say? Or making a sort of "homestead exemption" or some shit where if the buyer is specifically trying to just buy land to live on then they can be allowed to buy it instead of "developers" from California?
honestly, no idea how to fix it. other than as you mentioned, have some kind of homestead exemption. While obviously not a lawyer, but it seems really hard to have laws that are:
>codified
>fair
>free from loopholes.
from an individual's standpoint it's easy to make a determination on whether someone buying a chunk of land to homestead is a good thing; whereas it's bad when some out of stater or worse, corporation is trying to buy it. But even having an exemption on the books for homesteading, how do you keep that from being gamed?
Another thing that would greatly, greatly help would be a lending program specific to small holding/homesteading. the biggest barrier i can see is getting a bank to lend you the money to buy bare land. you can get a construction loan easily enough, but they require water (well), mains power, building permits, etc -- that's a different beast entirely compared to what a lot of folks would like to do with a rural plot of land -- so your left with having to save up a good chunk of change for a cash deal.
Novels aside, I honestly i think the end game is going to shake out looking something like the agenda 2030 business. hinterlands mostly unpopulated, with extremely limited access. Small holders herded back into cities via a confluence of environmental rules and economic hardship (raise the property taxes to insane proportions, restriction in automobile ownership, etc) -- there's a ton of ways for them to turn the screws on people who don't play their game.
it really, really depends on where you want to buy land in. you will find giant parcels in the middle of nowhere for dirt cheap(relatively speaking), but, again, it will be in the middle of nowhere
good post.
check land use. for example are there any restrictions on if you can log your land if you want to?
make sure you look into restrictions on exactly what you can and can't build. some places have really stupid laws. for example live in structures are illegal unless they are OVER 2000 sqft. some places will require you pay for extras like plowing in winter through taxes because you built a structure. plow costs all going into 1 persons taxes is $$$$$$
water and mineral rights are another one to check. look into any regulations around septic systems if there are not utilities.
figure out what your goal is and look for land that meets that. i personally wouldn't buy somewhere without either surface water or easily drillable well. the water table is going to substantially drop year over year, so if you already need to go a few hundred feet down theres a solid chance you'll run dry in a couple years in states likes UT, AZ, NM, CA, NV, ND, SD, MT, ID
>do not, do NOT under any circumstances ask the county/jurisdiction these questions outright regarding a specific parcel of land. What will happen is the planner will make a note regarding the question on that specific parcel. So you'll potentially lose your plausible deniability (and if it comes to it, an as-built permit exception)
This is such a redneck/boomer way of thinking. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
but it does though anon, it really, really does.
not saying to avoid getting approvall. Just be measured when dealing with the county. Depending on the scope of your project, speak to a land use attorney first, THEN ring up the county.
if you want to avoid getting scammed, make friends with someone in real estate
In some parts of the country, zoning is common even in rural areas. It's mostly controlled at the township level. Practically every zoning resolution will prevent you from building a Kacynski cabin, but feel free to read it if you are feeling desperate enough.
Deed restrictions can also be baked into the parcel of land in areas without zoning.
Montana is literally the only place in the US that has counties where there are enough nonexistent laws to allow you the freedom to build something that isn't to code or subject to some regulation. I also know, however, that it's only in what the state government has deemed the "undesirable" parts of Montana, so good fricking luck getting access to it.
I'm in Alaska and didn't ask permission for anything. They saw my cabin from the sky a couple years after it was built and added it to the tax assessment but that's all.
If you were to stop spending money on netflix and lootcrate subscriptions you could eventually buy land
>They saw my cabin from the sky
can you camonet your house to prevent tax?
Making it obvious you're trying to hide may result in less fair treatment when you're finally found.
take the hobbit pill anon.
quads of moronation
>just stop buying Starbucks
>just stop watching Netflix
>just stop making small impulse purchases that help your mental health and are inconsequential in the long run
>it's totally not the fact that you pay 50 percent of your paycheck towards rent or that food is going up I price every week, or that employers won't give benefits or living wages
go frick yourself you entitled prick
peak millennial tbdesu
you guys realize that people up to the 1980s were able to buy houses on minimum wage? the salty zoomer is right
>if you're not with me you're against me
I'm just saying if you're impulse-buying for your "mental health" you should seek actual help.
I'd argue that stuff isn't impulse buying, it's just habit. I like to buy a cold brew coffee 5 days a week for about 3 bucks. It brings me comfort, and it's part of my routine at this point. I also make coffee at home, but the ritual of walking to the cafe and enjoying the sun on my lunch is great. Small purchases, even regularly, don't make a real impact on long term saving. One emergency can wipe out years of savings for people who don't make much. Imagine saving for 2 years and not buying anything for yourself, and then having a serious life event take it all away. That absolutely hurts your mental health, and you probably should just do things that help you in any small way.
>I'd argue that stuff isn't impulse buying, it's just habit.
>just stop making small impulse purchases that help your mental health and are inconsequential in the long run
Moving the goalposts much.
let me break it down for all the bootstrapping "oh you millennials just don't want to work" types.
>1980
>Avg house price is 76k (295k in today's money)
>Avg wage is 17k (about 65k in today's money)
>2022
>Avg home price has increased to about 500k. (something like an 80 percent increase in home value compared to 1980 when adjusted)
>Avg wage is about 51k (10k less than avg wage in 1980 after adjusting)
We make less than your parents, housing is going up, and you have the audacity to say that "all you have to do is work hard and save", "oh it's small purchases that make you poor" while we're getting bent over.
That's called a spending problem, and isn't anything like what I was describing.
>and you have the audacity to say that "all you have to do is work hard and save"
Yes. You can still buy fixer uppers, most millennials just don't because they are lazy and would rather play video games. Most millennials I know pay people to do everything from painting rooms to mowing their lawn. Again, no one is debating with you. Its definitely harder now than it was; but to imply that its impossible or you'll never do it, well, not with that attitude. I guess I don't understand why people would sit around b***hing about that all day? Like what the frick? Do you expect it to get better?Expect the government to help lol? No. Bootstraps are literally your only option. Mature people realize this. Immature people whine about it and spend their money on cool clothes to impress prostitutes
bootstraps are a literally impossible metaphor to illustrate absurdity. I have no idea how it's taken seriously now. I'm getting paid to sit here and b***h. Mature people realize there is more than one way people experience living and that videogames, clothes, and prostitutes aren't the ONLY CONCIEVABLE REASON someone might have no prospects and be poor, and not have a way out. What if houses suddenly jump in price after I've saved for a few years? I'm SOL and would have to save more, and it could jump again in that time. The government does help, first time homebuyers programs are the only thing allowing people who arent millionaires to buy houses anymore. There are options, but all of us younger than 30 are going to have to deal with the fact that we all got fricked,and we're getting less for more. The smart move is to leave the US entirely so you actually get something for the taxes you pay. I'd rather b***h and plan than give some piece of shit 600k.
>Mature people realize there is more than one way people experience living and that videogames, clothes, and prostitutes aren't the ONLY CONCIEVABLE REASON someone might have no prospects and be poor
I would say 90% of poor people are either stupid or lazy and most of them engage in rampant consumerism actually. There is even a meme about this for black people. its called "Black person rich". As soon as they get a little cash they buy chains or an escalade. But yeah, most people don't understand how to live with minimalism or save money. Online shopping made it worse since they can buy whatever they want and have it delivered to their door.
> The government does help
LOL, liberals....
>The smart move is to leave the US entirely so you actually get something for the taxes
Oh man. I'm not even going to respond to this one. I'll let my homies take care of this one
>As soon as they get a little cash they buy chains or an escalade
Funny, it was the chains they were b***hing about a couple years ago...
The other 10% of poor people are what I like to call "temporary poor" they are either (previously) successful people who are down on their luck maybe they got fired or whatever OR they are young men in their 20s trying to make it. They usually do after about 5-7 years. Honestly if I had to give advice to someone in their 20s I would say would hard 25-30 and you will coast the rest of your career. Also get into gardening and hunting and fishing and save money and just try to have fun doing it. Outdoor activities are >>>> and with ground beef at 8$ a lb doesn't hurt to get some venison
>hunting and fishing and save money
That's a great way to spend money not save it.
how? I bought my bow from a pawn shop for 30$. Fishing pole I got at a garage sale. I crush fish and deer. I process my own.
Yeah and if you had spent that time working overtime and bought fish instead you come out ahead.
Its a great hobby but if you only do it to save money and don't actually enjoy it you might as well just work instead.
>working overtime
what the frick? I work a salary job. I actually work about 8 hours a week. The other 32 I'm shitposting or doing projects around the house or playing with my kids or hunting lol
meanwhile dudes are working their asses off full time and you call them lazy.
Unironically yes. Why should anyone care about you? What have you done to deserve anything?
No I would call them stupid if they aren’t making 6figs by age 30 though. Work smarter not harder
a lot of shit that people want to do is capped at like 50-60k
>hurr durr why doesnt everybody just get a job paying 6 figures
Idiot
Cope more peasant
Amen
>cope more peasant
The fact that you think everybody can have a high paying job just proves you're big dum
Nice bait. Although i do know people who legit work less than 8 hours of the week they spend in the office.
If this is your mindset you shouldn't even be on PrepHole. From a purely financial standpoint the smartest decision is to live in a pod and eat bugs
HHAHAHAHAH
Wagie logic always makes me chuckle. They just don't get it!
>TFW Buddhist and can't do these things
>TFW Buddhist and can't fully express how PROFOUNDLY disconnected from the damage done by government and corporations using expletives.
Oh well.
where do you live anon ...canada ?
Michigan
$2.79 here for local 80/20
Jesus, they feeding your cows gold leaf and caviar?
Rest of that is basically true. Except the phenomena has extended to much of millennial culture as a whole instead of just Black folk.
Bait
The money system is completely fricked, man. Come hang out with us on PrepHole. Dont hop into a shitcoin thread, read through a good macroeconomics thread.
>hang out with us on PrepHole.
>Dont hop into a shitcoin thread
That's all PrepHole is. They need to make a different board for those gays.
That's what PrepHoleposters want though. If they didn't want constant shitcoin threads, they wouldn't bump them and they would report them enough to force the mods to do something about it.
Even with the state of crypto rn there is still a glut of scammers, it’s so hard to know if you’re speaking to a pajeet or a PrepHoleraeli because they’re both cognitively damaged.
You keep trying to drag me into an argument that I'm simply not having with you.
All I ever said and have been reiterating for like four posts was that if you need impulse purchases for your mental health, you should seek help.
I'm not saying impulse purchases prevent you from saving money. I'm not arguing about housing prices. I'm pointing out your habit is unhealthy.
Quit your hissy fit.
>Avg wage is about 51k
St8 up frickin lie
First google search say 69k
U big dum
also citing average vs median home pricies... dude's argument is exactly completely wrong, but it's disingenuous.
there's still quite a few houses in the 150-300k range; might not be what your favorite instagram influencer™ would want in a house, but such is life. it is absolutely possible to get a roommate(s) for a few years and save your money for the down payment on a house.
i get it's way more fun and comforting to blame everyone and everything for your problems vs taking responsibility, but in the end it does absolutely nothing for you.
Economics is the study of how to reconcile unlimited desires with limited resources. With your limited resources you've decided to spend $800 a year on cold brew. Others forego this (and many other "comforta" you probably spend on) and make sacrifices so they can purchase houses or land. Pretty simple
non-argument
There's fault and responsibility homosexual.
Yes, you can point the finger and say it is their fault.
However it is your responsibility for your own well being. It is still achievable so plant the tree that your children may find shade under some day.
These people should take responsibility as well and be held accountable but the people fricking your life over now are dead, retired, sitting on a beach slugging back margaritas paid for by uncle Sam. It's a waste of time to pursue except at the ballot box (moreso primaries than general) or if you run yourself.
Plus there are a million boomer farmers right now with no one to take over their plot when their gone, and 100 million millenials and zoomers on their Dutch bros goyslop fix that will never pay for it. Look at it as an opportunity.
>Plus there are a million boomer farmers right now with no one to take over their plot when their gone
They'll just sell it to developers who will part it out and make McSuburbs where once there was productive land. Has happened time and time again.
yes buying starbucks will improve your "mental health"
lots of small purchases are not inconsequential, anyone who wants to buy land has to save up money to do it and I'd rather have land than 2000 lattes
and how am I entitled? I saved money to buy land and it seems you believe you are entitled to housing, subscription services, overpriced luxury items, subsidized food, and benefits. I'm not rich and I still have land due to not wasting money
You're entitled because you're saying that the reason people don't have housing or land is 15 bucks a month how disconnected are all you fricks
If you are struggling to make ends meet you obviously can't afford land until you have more income
If you are spending
>50 at bar
>100 eating out
>50 on subscriptions
>100 on new electronics
>30 on vidya
>100 on unnecessary new clothes
per month that works out to 430/month or 5k a year. if you were to save that money you could own land within a few years and these are the types of people that shouldn't claim no one can afford land in >current year
50 at bar.
You mean weekly right not a month
Do you seriously think people are spending that much?
I barely have £100 to spend on myself each month, usually that gets cut into by bills. I haven't eaten out since Christmas and I don't drink at all.
I'll pretend to be surprised you're so fricking delusional that you think Zoomers have 430 a month spare.
>Do you expect it to get better
No, that's what makes it so frustrating, we're all acutely aware that we don't have enough political sway to get policies that help us.
It's easy to go "why are you whining" when you come from a generation who had it far easier.
>8 hours a week
Holy frick you homosexual, how can you call people lazy when you work less in a week than I do in a day?
Like I said before, truly delusional.
And why does all of that mean we can't complain about it? Those who rant so much about how fricking great they were and how others are lazy fricked us over. You don't think people are justified in their anger over that?
Lemme know how your plan works out when you're 70 and suddenly all those people you fricked over when you were younger now have the ability to out-vote you. I wonder what will happen to your retirement then?
I’m 30. I’m just successful. I’m a complete moron. The fact that I’m as successful as I am with my level of moronation really sets the bar low yet you still manage to get under it. Continue with your excuses man. I’m sure blaming other people for the success of your life will work out well for you
I'm 21 and literally on above average wages for my age group, I didn't need you to admit you were moronic because it was obvious. It doesn't matter if you're "successful" in my generation, what past generations considered as successful won't even buy you a decent fricking quality of life anymore.
I'm blaming others for putting up barriers to success, like excessive housing prices, wages that don't match cost of living, increased education costs etc.
My own personal success isn't an issue, I've met literally every single one of the "personal success" milestones you'd expect from somebody in their 30s (career, long term partner, higher education etc) by the age of 21. The issue is that despite all of that I still barely have enough money to afford myself a basic QoL.
Your entire comment is just a deflection because it got pointed out you are so obviously delusional, so instead you try and attack my character as a cope for your own severely warped perception of reality.
I’m not reading all that
I’m happy for you though
Or sorry that happened
Thank you, I accept your regrets/congratulations and they are appreciated.
Totally missing my point. Wages for my age group haven't gone up since the 80s (at least in my country). Meanwhile things like bread and milk have at least doubled in price, houses are at minimum 2x more than they were when I was born, usually higher.
I think you're mistaking my complaints as expecting life to be given to me for free, I expect to have to work and plan ahead, what I do not expect is for there to be additional barriers added on top of what previous generations had due to incompetence/laziness/wastage of previous generations.
Let me get this straight...you're 21 and expect to be "sucessful" with no financial worries at that age? you are fricking delusional.
If you're crying because you can't buy a house cash at 21 then welcome to reality moron.
1) being above average income at 21 just means you make a dollar over minimum wage. Very few people start making good money until their 30s or late 20s.
2) no you don't have any type of meaningful education at 21 except maybe trade school but then point 1 still applies since you need to run your own shit to make money.
Or just move somewhere you can actually afford to live.
>If you're crying because
Missing my point already. I don't expect to own a house at 21, I expect for it to be a realistic possibility in my future.
>Dollars
I'm not in the US, I make substantially more than minimum wage.
>Don't have meaningful education
Based on the American understanding of education sure.
I've been to University, I've got trades qualifications also and I work with a team of Design Engineers. I'm still working on getting more quals but I'm definitely not without them.
>Just move somewhere
Already moved halfway across the country.
>Based on the American understanding of education sure.
No based on the bologna process understanding of education.
Now i also know know you're s turd worlder, or a dropout either way not really that impressive in a world where a bachelors is considered base education in many fields.
And since you work "with" a team of engineers and not on it you obviously don't have an engineering degree. Especially since if you have a degree no one cares about "quals" or whatever.
You mostly come of as an entitled moron.
>Turd worlder
lol my nation has a higher HDI than yours muttoid.
>Dropout
Nope, try again
>Base education in many fields
Working on the degree atm, currently have some Uni quals but got fricked by my apprenticeship out of the higher one that they promised so it's taking a bit longer.
>Entitled
For wanting equal opportunities to those who came before me? and I'm the entitled one? you really don't see the irony in that?
>moron
That's an apt term for yourself.
Your only arguments against me are assumptions or attacks on my character. Can't actually address my point, which is why you continue to ignore that wages haven't gone up since the 80s while cost of living has gone up.
>while cost of living has gone up.
It hasn't though. The amount of disposable income has steadily increased for the last 30 years. Housing is the only exception but that hasn't really mattered due to zero interest rates. But you're in luck if those fo through the room, (or fricked depending on how disposable you are to your employer). But you could have made exactly the same rant just before the crash in 2008, or the 90s crisis which caused total collapse in some parts of Europe. (Also a great example of how your idea that previous generations had it easy is wrong)
>apprenticeship
So you haven't actually been to university. You can't drop out after 1 year and then claim to have reached an "education milestone"
>my nation has a higher HDI than yours muttoid
Nope, because then you would be familiar with the bologna process if you had actually set foot inside a university.
>It hasn't though
It has though, housing and rent is just one example of one of the many factors that has gone up, price of basic commodities like bread and milk also has.
>Idea that previous generations had it easy
No, I said had it *easier*. They did not have the same barriers put up (like unaffordable housing). Are you just bad at reading or are you deliberately mis-understanding/mis-interpreting my posts?
>Haven't been to university
Weird, because I've got a certificate from a university saying I have and I've got a university ID/Email?
>Drop out after 1 year
I've never dropped out of any course I've been on, I don't have a bachelors sure (I'm working on that with the company I work for). This is what I mean by "based on the American understanding of education".
You don't seem to understand there are university level apprenticeships? one of the reasons I've gone down that route is to save what my parents have saved up in order to hopefully *some day* afford a house. The more I can get for free from my employer the better.
>Nope
I mean, it does, I checked it before I posted.
>Are you just bad at reading or are you deliberately mis-understanding/mis-interpreting my posts?
No I'm not you're just greatly inflating your perceived difficulties. Household disposable income has steadily increased and food especially has become MUCH MUCH cheaper relative to your income if you live in a first world country. I spend less than 10% of my income after tax on food every month. If you actually cook, food is cheap as frick.
https://data.oecd.org/chart/6La8
Housing is the only thing that hasn't become much cheaper over the last 30 years relative to income. But right now property prices are falling.
>American understanding of education".
And im talking about the bologna process which is the EUROPEAN SYSYEM for higher education. That your trade school calls itself a university doesn't make it one in an international context.
I live in a top 10 hdi country. You seem to assume im American yet you don't know where Bologna is, ironic.
>Food has become much cheaper relative to income
It hasn't, from memory (and I haven't looked for a few months to could be wrong) bread has gone up by double and milk has gone up by triple in the UK at least. Meanwhile wages have remained the same after adjustment for inflation.
>Property prices are falling
Not where I am, since I started renting average rent has gone up by 2x where I live. I don't know about my exact city but I know my home town has had stable housing prices, my parents house has gone up in value.
>Trade school calls
I don't go to trade school, you're still talking from the American (or foreign) perspective no matter if you reference the process.
>Your trade school calls itself
It's not a trade school. In the UK we would call a trade school a college, it is not a college.
>You don't know where Bologna is
Are you talking about the city or the process?
I know Bologna is in Italy but how is that relevant to it as a process?
Side note, if you're saying you're from Italy then you don't live in a Top 10 HDI country. So what are you actually trying to say with this?
>from memory
How about you instead show me the fricking data? Even if food has doubled in price across the board it Isn't a very big cost unless you're a hobo. Pic related
Ive already stated what the bologna process is but if you're to dumb to google i can see you had to drop out. It is very much related to what is viewed as a real university degree in the UK.
Im from Scandinavia.
>show me the data
I was going to be too lazy to dig it out, but I've decided to check anyway, here is my source: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/how-have-prices-changed-over-time
>Buh buh even if true i-it's not a big cost
Ah yes, so even if I'm right you'd just dismiss it as irrelevant anyway.
>pic related
Ignoring all the other costs of living like fuel, car insurance, rent, tax etc. Also I know for a fact more than 6% of my income goes on food (and I really don't eat fancy + all my meals are made at home). I'm very sceptical about that data.
>I've already stated
I'm well aware of what it is, why do you keep bringing this up as if it's relevant. I've never dropped out, I have done an apprenticeship giving me my current qual (at 21) and now I am working on securing funding from my company for BEng and eventually MEng. I work in the same office as people who already have these. Like I said, because you are foreign you are not grasping the concept of how an Apprenticeship works in the UK.
Bro have some self reflection you’re arguing over bullish on PrepHole grow the frick up
You do realise it takes two to have an argument right?
You are both dumbasses for arguing. Here is the deal. I'm right about everything and you are wrong. The other guy is 100% right. I love Gen Z. Whine Whine Whine, Raise taxes, vote blue, whine whine whine, the boomers, the government, the israelites, this, that.
At the end of the day you doofuses need to realize you make your own luck in life. You have your own trail. YOU. Not anyone else. YOU. Stop listening to morons or enablers. You should strive to be better than your peers. Strive to be better than others. Expect perfection. Shoot for the moon and land amongst the stars. I don't understand you people. I think you actually WANT to b***h and WANT to have a shit life so you can complain about it as opposed to actually working hard or saving money. You have a victim complex. Eventually, 1 day you will grow up and realize that will get you nowhere. So have fun in your echochamber, or make some changes. In the words of the black guy from Shawshank, get busy livin or get busy dyin
The last couple generations have a whole culture of glorifying their own ineffectuality and whining. It's weird. Just ignore people and move.
Definitely not conducive to success
Sadly, they are what the hippys made of them.
Where do you live? What do you consider a decent quality of life? What do you do for work and what do you make a year?
>50 at bar
moron.
Gotta start somewhere. Lots of morons don't know how to be cheap here that is for sure. Piss all their money away and wonder why they don't have the cash to put a downpayment on a home or a car
No they weren't. No one is even saying its easy, just don't be a moron. Be cheap, diy, and work hard.
White Men are entitled to all that stuff
>small impulse purchases that help your mental health
>i need instant gratification multiple times a week otherwise i enter a spiral of depression
Seek help. Consumerism isn't a cure, it's a problem.
I'm not gunna lie I absolute love how pissed off and apathetic and excuse making Gen Z and Millenials are.
You can be like hey you know what might help your life is if you try a little bit and they're like
FRICK YOU BOOMER YOU RUINED MY LIFE
kek
>be 30
>cant decide if i just want a house or a farm
Decisions, decisions.
But actually the problem is i can either afford a newish house in town i won't have to spend years fixing. Or a farm i will spend years fixing before its actually nice, + buying a farm in the sticks would effectively seal my fate as forever alone.
Or just getting raided as a suspected methlab
Hmm I would do what I did and buy a cheap-ish but expensive-ish house on some land in a town not completely rural but not completely away from the city. I'm close enough where people come over for bbqs and I can drive 5 min to a grocery store but its 20 mins to the freeway and 1 hour to nearest big city. I PrepHole'ed the shit out of it. Its currently worth about 140,000 more than what I bought it for. I got it 2800sq feet on 6 acres for 240,000$
>PrepHole'ed the shit out of it.
Which is exactly what I would like to avoid. Almost all houses on decent size plots are from the 40s or earlier here. A modern prefab house would save me decades of headaches with dodgy wiring, poor insulation and leaky pipes.
I still want land though so maybe I'll just take the project.
My plan is to start looking for a house next spring so i guess I will see how loan rates and house prices develop until then
Don’t help the whiny b***hes, more opportunities for the ones of us who are are determined to actually put in some work. I have my degree at the end of the month and then I’m going property scouting.
I don't anymore they make me laugh. I'm like yeah society really fricked you you have no hope just have a nice day.
Like Thomas Jefferson said, the thing about luck is, you tend to have more good luck when you work hard.
four fours. exceptionally holy.
I saw zoneless areas in SC too. I think Appalachia is probably chill. Might be minor regs, but none of that "you can't build under 750sqft" stuff like
The less populated and non-productive the soil, the fewer restrictions generally.
$10-20k/acre isn't uncommon outside Cali and metro areas.
How many acres some of you guys need is ridiculous, though. You're not starting a farm, and you'd have your hands full with 1/2ac of gardening.
Find a comfy rural community and buy your acre and you can larp homestead on that a few years before you realize it's more work that it's worth and go back to shitposting 20hr/wk here instead, but with a nice view now.
It also doesn't hurt to check the zoning if you really like the location of the land. Some zoning resolutions haven't been updated in decades, and still allow small homes/cabins.
>How many acres some of you guys need is ridiculous
An acre is 210 feet x 210 feet.
If you had a square plot of land that was 4 acres and built a cabin in the middle, you could stand on the roof and throw a baseball in any direction and it would land outside of your property.
An acre ain't shit.
With 10 acres you can still smell your neighbor's farts.
The point of buying property is to get away from subruban layouts where you're stacked onto of eachother.
pretty much this, when we bought our land, we were so fricking stoked
>3.3 acres! that's hugeee!
then reality hit. we clear our fire break
people on the lot next to ours (north) clear their fire break
i can hear the dog
i can see them through the remaining trees
i can hear them talking on their back porch.
total distance between us and them is ~100'. they have 5 acres themselves.
when property developers take a tract of land and dice it into smaller lots for sale, they do so to maximize the number of plots they can get get, livability is not factored in.
Then throw in county/jurisdictional siting standards (such as clustering dwellings around a road or utility easement), and you can easily own say, 10 acres, but still have a fricking neighbor or 3 right on your ass.
reading this is raising my blood pressure. moving out of the city or burbs just to still be within quincenera distance of your neighbors....
yeah, it is it what it is -- not ideal, but tolerable
(except for the one time their adult son came to visit them with the ar-10 he got after a round of stimmy. mother fricker there's a great shooting spot a mile up the road, why do you think it's acceptable to shoot that close to someone else's house? )
don't let tales like this deter you from wanting to move out into the woods though, on balance it's paradise on earth compared to living in town. but do your homework and try to talk to the neighbors before pulling the trigger on a property.)
>can hear the dog
frick me. I have 20acres in the mts and can hear my nieghbors dogs like right there- inside even. And they are fricking hounds so the baying is constant. totally defeats the feeling of privacy and quiet.
yeah, mine let their german shepherd run wild as they think she'll drive off bears and cougars or some such. then they have this little pomeranian shit which yaps periodically during the day. i don't get the appeal of a dog like that. The tortured high pitched shrieking barks makes me wonder if it's the reincarnated soul of some great sinner from days of yore whose punishment is being stuck in the body of a rat.
just begging to be turned into a living football tbh
>I need absolute privacy and total isolation
>this isn't ridiculous
okay, anons.
well fricker, if you move 30 miles out into the woods, a bit of privacy and isolation is not exactly an unreasonable expectation no?
how's your diverse city btw?
My city has ethnic food from all over and is well-run with low crime, thank you.
Ever compare crime stats from typical suburbs and typical "I'm living on 30ac in a trailer" lands? Enjoy your new neighbors picrel. The ones that aren't going to murder you for meth money are probably cool.
Comfy suburbs are comfy. There's a middle ground between literal nowhere and the inner city that's nice. It can be suburban or just urban-adjacent rural, but you can't easily afford big acreage in those areas, on account of them being nice to live in.
Land prices are the end output of hundreds of millions of people collectively machine-learning the value of any given plot of land over decades.
If it costs $3000 per acre, there's a host of reasons why.
But if you're that outside the norm, maybe you can arbitrage lifestyles.
yeah, you've got no clue what you're talking about; maybe you're describing areas of appachalachia or some such?
out here land is a bit pricier than that. 30 acres would run you at least 400k. so like it would be "30 acres and a mcmansion" perhaps. white collar crime is a thing though i guess, right? specific to my situation though, i'm bounded on 2 sides by extremely hilly BLM forest, one neighbor to the north, and one to east. zero possibility of what you're describing. You definitely sound like a completely arrogant c**t with some pre-conceived notion of what rural living is like.
all that said, not sure why someone would be here, on PrepHole and tweaking over reading that people want privacy and peace and quiet away from all that hustle and bustle that you city c**ts just lubricate yourselves over.
>arrogant c**t
>white collar crime
>you city c**ts lubricate yourselves
>you're tweaking
Sure thing.
>BLM land
>mcmansions
>30 acres would run you at least 400k.
Proving my point more or less.
Finding (middle-class) affordable large land tracts generally requires methbilly neighbors or extreme remoteness.
Crime per capita rates are generally as bad as inner cities in affordable lowgrade rural areas, which you don't live in, because you're somewhere in a Californian enclave that's out of reach for most middle class people now.
Nice rural areas with decent neighbors tend to have high acreage costs, even in Appalachia (I was just there scouting fwiw), as you have found yourself to be the case.
As soon as decent people start moving in, prices jump as desirability increases.
The methbillies mostly sell out or are rounded up, and more urban refugees come and turn it into yet another rural-chic yuppie paradise that you can't afford.
Exurbs, urban-adjacent rural, and high-grade farmlands are the best mix of low density, good neighbors, and amenities, but you're going to pay a few hundred K to buy a large tract there, because you're not the only one that wants it...
fair enough, and okay i concede i might have misread ya -- apologies.
we're in western oregon (lane co); rural development out here has basically been weyerhaueser or similar dividing and then selling off timber tracts after they've harvested/planted reprod timber. regarding price pressure, the minimum lot size for a new SFD here is 80 acres (big game migratory patterns.. you can do an impact analysis and a huge amount of red tape, but i wouldn't hold your breath about an approval) We were able to get our house built just before that went into effect; we're just over 7 acres across two adjacent lots. Since covid our house/land appreciated by about 300k. across both plots of land we paid just over 120k, well within range for middle class folks (which we certainly are, household gross is just shy of 130k)
I think this kind of wrongheaded anti-development mentality is going to make what we did impossible for anyone but uber rich californians (whole other kettle of fish there). Which sucks.
In the grand scheme of things our neighbors aren't bad, just a bit blue collar and lackadaisical about letting their mutts bark, but overall good people (as you've alluded to, they could be so, so much worse)
the point of my original post is that we specifically chose (as you put it) 'extreme remoteness', and even then, the annoyances we left town for followed us. Again though, i don't think there's anything wrong whatsoever about not wanting neighbors, or barring that, not being reminded constantly of their presence.
Thank you for apology, anon. No worries.
West coast is batty, best of luck.
Midwest anon here, not good climate and lack of PrepHole makes it slowly bleed pop, no Calis want corn fields, but I want to get out for same reasons. As nice of an exurb as we live in, 6mo winters are ass. Not sure why Calis want to move to OR, you guys have almost the same bad climate as us.
Before anyone asks, Midwest is legit full, and you're not buying land unless you're planning on commercially farming it. It's not worth moving to anyway.
i gotta move states. every urban/urban adjacent area in my state is filled to the brim with degenerates and shitbags and completely unaffordable to boot
you have my sympathies anon, what state are you in now, and whatcha looking for?
ill give you 3 guesses. youll be right and then youll say 'frick off, we're full'. been looking at idaho since i have some family there. maybe nw arkansas/east oklahoma. maybe even new mexico or colorado but i want to do some driving around and see what some more states have to offer and what their "worst weather" is like. like ive heard arkansas just gets deadly humid and i want to know how bad that really is.
Greenville, SC - Hendersonville, NC is calling you.
The north corner is PrepHole paradise, affordable land that's still fairly urban adjacent, forests, mountains, lakes galore.
You'll run into a paywall with large tracts, but I've seen lots of smaller 1-2ac tracts going for national-median prices. You can get fairly remote, maybe not Ted shack remote, but decently.
Summer's hot by Greenville, but very comfy up in the mountains. Greenville has some of the best weather in the US outside Cali for annual averages.
Just avoid Asheville. Tis a silly place.
>Asheville
Actually I think it is based for the record, because it sucks up every nutter and homeless person from 200 miles away, cleaning up the rest of the small cities from this plague.
Live anywhere within 200mi of Asheville but not Asheville. You can't go wrong.
Maybe I'll take a look at the Carolinas. Thanks for the tip. I kinda started but I started with Raleigh and it got me worried that its just gonna turn into Californified mess in a decade.
I was hoping to get about 5 acres to set up a little hobby farm and some outbuildings. I really just want to some piece and quiet, some stars, and I want the government to stay off my nuts.
Well, that region is going to be a magnet:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area
Anything over 0.75% change is blowing up. Asheville oddly isn't, but it's already crazy enough for several decades' worth of Californianization.
Same for Knoxville, TN, which is nearby, also very excellent weather and PrepHole, but is also blowing up.
People have discovered southern Appalachia. It's the next PNW, I'm afraid, but it'll probably be a solid place to live for 10-20 years before it goes nuts, if that bothers you. It's still early days, and much of the area is unzoned.
If you want nice, everyone wants it too, and they're all doing what you're doing and moving now that remote work is a thing. It's only going to get worse.
Find something on that list that's not losing pop (rustbelt blight isn't nice) but isn't blowing up either, probably in the TN/SC/NC/GA area for best climate, or TX/OK/AR if you want something drier.
Note that LA and much of AL/GA/SC/NC is blackbelt in the lowlands. The hills are hyperwhite, though. picrel (city-data.com, excellent resource)
I grew up in a 98% white suburb.
My high-school was 1,400 kids and there was one (1) black guy in my class.
I've lived in 3 of the top ten largest cities in the U.S.
I've lived in 14 states, from California to South Carolina.
Currently the nearest town is 247 people.
Your "opinion" is shaped by your experience. Which is nothing.
>Dude in a trailer in the Ozarks is going to kill you for meth money.
San Diego was the meth capital OF THE WORLD for 2 decades.
Go ahead and post a timestamped piece of mail with your zip code and we'll compare crime rates to some white trash neighborhoods.
I dare you.
>another angryanon
>give me your address
I live in one of the dark green squares.
What's telling is how if anyone talks trash about exurbs and the nice rural areas, nobody has a chip on their shoulder about it. It's a joke, obviously.
Then you note that low price rural areas have issues, and it's a trigger...
Look at picrel. Nice urban-adjacent rural areas and exurbs are generally within commuting distance of an urban area and have the lowest crime rates, and the further away the more crime there is.
There's a strong correlation between low crime and high property values, for obvious reasons, and a strong correlation between urban proximity and general desirability.
Buying 40ac+ in one of the green squares is going to cost, generally, and most people will downsize to 1-5ac and deal with noisy neighbors and dogs, which is all you really need outside of commercial agriculture. A larpstead can be done with 1-2ac easily.
haven't the amish bought up all the green squeers by now? 🙂
lol, give them time, anon, it will soon be all theirs.
Clippity clop, they're on the march.
The UP and northern WI are practically Detroit, per capita.
Note in the other pic, that the far more populated west coast of Lake MI (half-suburban) is almost all green, as is the fully agriculturally developed southern MI.
Cows make for safe neighbors.
You can buy 50ac in the UP for $50k, sure.
Good luck buying just 20ac land around GR or up by Milwaukee without setting aside $200-400k just for the land, then another $100-200k to develop it for a small house/doublewide. Sure, if you're buying for $500k, it's doable, but you're in affluent suburb prices here, not affordable rural prices.
On the other hand, you can buy 2ac for $50k or less, slap a mobile on it, and be done for under $150k.
>Michigan
Hahahahahahhahahaha
>There were 478 violent crimes for every 100,000 people in Michigan in 2020 -- the third highest violent crime rate in the Midwest and 10th highest nationwide.
Is your dark green square one of the ones that's 10 minutes from the city with the 2nd highest murder rate in the U.S.?
I grew up in the suburbs.
And then I lived in metropolitan areas and rural areas.
You're saying "man the suburbs are the best without comparison!"- without having any other experience to compare it to.
You're a fricking idiot with zero life experience outside of your parents house.
You probably still sleep in the same bedroom you did your homework in from kindergarten.
>angryanon
>that chip must weigh a ton
Exurbs and adjacent rural are comfy paradise. You get the best of both worlds.
MI's crime rate is mostly Detroit. If it scares you, there's other small cities that are quaint and well run, like GR.
Detroit exurbs are actually very nice, safe places, drivers aside.
The statistics underlying that map are based off nationwide data, not just Michigan's. A deep green in MI is the same as a deep green in IA or CA or FL. Your logic is not sound.
Just keep arguing against obvious logic. 85% of the country lives in ex/sub/urban areas for a reason, and much of the rest live in adjacent rural areas.
Practically nobody lives, definitionally, in the backwoods.
Society has spoken with its feet.
Isolation megalots are just not worth it, nor is living in some offgrid nowheresville backwoods tinytown to afford them. You can get PrepHole activities all over MI within a couple hours drive and still live in a nice, mid-scale neighborhood with amenities and utilities and 1-2ac for larpsteading.
Shit weather, though, hence my desire to carpetbag the Carolinas.
>85% of Americans live there so it must be the correct option.
....
>60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.
Your entire post is once again full of nothing but cope, attempting to justify the only side life you've experienced.
>but my block of suburbia has the safest rating!!
>when you got carjacked at the gas station you weren't in your neighborhood so it doesn't count, even though it's the closest gas station to where you live....
>Muh FOOOOOOOODS
Not worth never being able to relax
you must be blessed with good neighbors. i envy you. living next to morons and hoodrats will do that to you though.
I paid $27k for 15 acres of old farmland in Georgia that has 30 feet of elevation change, a creek and 4 acres of forest.
This was 8 years ago and the market has changed but there's still deals out there.
>literally the only place in the US that has counties where there are enough nonexistent laws
There's a shitload actually.
Used to have a shady uncle who scammed people out of land back in Texas:
>Corner pasture cut into acre lots
>Sold owner-financed to folks with no kind of credit
>Knows they're slackers
>Missed a payment
>Took it back
he deserved to watch his children get eaten alive in front of him.
Shady uncle deserves to hang from a tree limb in a remote part of a national forst
>Sister twisters till the cows come home!
God bless this land
No chance of owning land in this day and age. My best option is going off grid somewhere. Idk where but i'll find a place.
zoomer cope.
You can either inherit land, get a share in a business that owns land, rent land, or earn a wage high enough to buy land.
The economy is in the shit and prices are mad, I got a 2M+ offer the other week entirely unsolicited and the local agent told me it was legit.
I'd rather be broke and healthy than a millionaire eating plastic trash and being sued by thots.
reddit mentality Tbh
>someday I'm gonna runaway to the woods!
That should be in the sticky.
how will you go off grid if you don't own any land?
He's not going to do anything, he's going to continue to idly fantasize while staying in his dead-end job, or leaching off his parents, or the state tardbux system.
You could just live in a Hobbit hole with leaves on the top where no c**t will see it
I own a house already and I’d totally trade it in for a hobbit hole.
The heating/cooling cost savings would just be icing on the cake.
Land isn't even expensive if you live in the US. You can get dozens of acres for cheap in pretty much every state besides maybe California.
No you can't turdgoblin
Don't tell me you actually fell for the NEET meme and spent your late teens and early 20's not making any money. If you have a job and even half decent budgeting skills this is extremely affordable.
>Don't tell me you actually fell for the NEET meme and spent your late teens and early 20's not making any money
o-oops
If you can't even hold down a job there's 0 chance you could ever live off grid. Stop dreaming start working.
post ending in 46 is right
Hello OP.
I bought for 230,000. 6 acres however all the land near my house is public land and woods/fields that no one really hunts on. So basically I have a mini garden on my property and I hunt and my neighbor has a boat and takes me fishing and we go to the farmers market and try to basically home grow or catch/kill 50% of our food.
"homesteading" ie: going and 'claiming' land is basically not allowed anymore, except maybe in Alaska, or you can do a squatters rights thing. But traditional homesteading of being a 'pioneer' (the profession) in the west and just claiming a piece is long gone. I think the last case in the US was in the 1970s.
As far as traps, not sure what you're asking; you will have to DIY your home. You should talk to people in the area. Lots of times they have insight on certain properties.
americans have no idea how cheap their land is
t. ausanon
you can find plots all across the country that totals around $1k per acre it's kind of ridiculous. some countries exist today where only the 1% of the 1% could afford this kind of thing.
In the Japanese property bubble, stuff like the royal palace was worth more on paper than some entire US states
>all the land for sale at a reasonable price is in Alaska
lol
lmao
>on PrepHole
>unwilling to live in alaska
quit being a moron you know shit like this is available all over the country anyways.
not an excuse
man, after my kid is done with highschool i might have to sell my house/land here in OR and upgrade to something like that.
we only have 7 acres and no winter; so WI or ME (maine's always been the goal; i just hope they don't lewiston the entire fricking state before i can move there) would be a huge upgrade.
7 acres just isn't enough.
>shit like this is available all over the country anyways
where is this magical cheap land that you speak of? certainly not in the continental US.
You need to be willing to go off grid and live in the boonies but it's there.
Plenty of marginal undeveloped land for 1k or less an acre.
Anon I'm not living in your Mexican rape shack.
>Remote, Alaska
Honestly as an Australian Alaska looks like a paradise.
wtf usa is cheap, it's all without utility lines tho right?
yeah that's just land. might not even own the minerals underneath it
in europe it's completely nuts, I was lucky my father could buy a plot including a house on it for 200k€, that was back in 1988. Nice little neighbourhood in a forest, around 6km out a bigger town.
Til last year there was like one plot left in front of me, and apparently a swiss pensionist female doctor bought it.
Just the plot alone was 120k€ and the house is prefab and 350k, while ours is solid brickwork.
Now here's the funny part, our plots are 850m2, so 1/4 of an acre lmao
Well comparing it to the 80's isn't fair, you could get a lot more of everything back then
Yeah, germanbro here. We can forget about ever having a decent plot of land anywhere here. I would say either the Spanish countryside or Norway/Finland are going to be our best bets.
Norway is full, frick off.
That's just alaskan land. You can find plenty of land in the 48 thats near or already has utility hookups.
What website is that
realtor dot cum
Thanks, going to check on my price range later, seems better than zillow lol
How the frick am I supposed to live on a remote plot with no house? You dumb shit.
You have to know a lot about land management.
The soil, erosion in the long term, the water table, prevailing winds.
Then there are things like local laws, development overlay, pollution sources.
For instance I know a guy who got cheap land only to find that a local mine dusted his property with toxic metals and he couldn't grow anything for sale and had to truck water in.
he was outraged but found that the mine had special permission to pollute and had compensated the PREVIOUS owners, who subsequently sold up.
I know another guy who found that he legally had to have a power line which he didn't think much of until he found out that the power company was going to charge him 10k annually to maintain a line he didn't even want.
A third guy I know had the power company tear down all his wind break trees because they thought the trees were too close to the power lines, thus exposing the whole side to heavy frost and killing all the plants around the immediate vicinity of the house.
Land is often sold for a reason, and if the owner is buying something nearby they could be trying to dodge something.
Realtors are not actually bound by any laws, the frickin israelites will just lie and run- so don't trust anything they say and hire your own agent for the valuation
I bought 45 acres in Maine for a good deal. It was selectively cut but still very wooded. Over the past couple years we have had blow downs, especially my pines because of the pervious logging. Free firewood, but still be aware of this.
How do you like it in Maine? It’s currently on the top of the list for states I consider for buying land.
Cozy. I'm definitely staying. Cheap(ish) land with homes are still available. There are a lot of old folks selling and moving off to Florida.
21 acres in WV, haven’t done anything with it yet cause building house expensive. Kinda a little fricked. Susie have to redo the dirt road (long and steep) to the house site on top of the hill but it’ll be comfy secure and kino as frick in a few hundred grand.
which county?
Morgan up in the EP
Just got a house and the 5 acres it sits on. Pretty excited to start making something of it.
Start taking soil samples at 50m intervals.
Don't be that guy who plans his garden visually and ends up growing everything in the wrong soil.
Plant wind breaks often, start raising all the seedlings/ cuttings now because 20 trees in a line means 20 potted and 100 cuttings.
Even if you havnt worked out the wind yet start the cuttings for when you have.
Check erosion straight away, maybe you need wire cages and can gather rocks, maybe you need to buy aggregate, maybe you need a clay plug.
The work isn't expensive if you direct it yourself so read a book if you have to.
Spent 5 hours fricking around in the kitchen.
Sorting, washing, cleaning.
I've freed up all my pickling jars for pickles, all my mason jars are ready for bottling, all my dry goods are in Tupperware and all my high value dried goods like nuts and fruit are in large recycled tomato passata bottles.
Found many small bags with wevils/ cupboard moths, all thrown out.
Only took five hours.
Hopefully I have the discipline to NEVER jam loose bags of shit in my cupboards again.
>Have $43k
>Live in Massachusetts and REALLY wanna stay.
Yes
Knew I was set to inherit 40 acres of ground when my grandfather died. So in 2017 at the ripe age of 23, the run down house next to my inherited acreage went up for sale and I jumped on it, bought some equipment and went to work.
Now raising three kids there with my wife. Life is gud. Past few years I've been reclaiming old pasture, thinning out the wood lot, repairing roads for river access, building a sawmill, among other things
Pic related
living the dream anon; post some more pics?
More recent shot of that same field. Cleared about 5 acres of under brush and saplings on this old pasture. Plan to put a cow or two on it in the future. And will be the site of my planned pole barn/shop
Beautiful area, what state?
>just another born on third base gay
worthless thread.
Oh boo hoo. I inherited about 40 acres of woods, about 25 of which is unusable wetlands, and a worn out tractor from 1967 worth maybe $1500, and a couple old shotguns and rifles. I wouldnt exactly call it a silver spoon in my mouth compared to a lot of people. I've busted my ass since I was 13 for everything else I have.
I was out on my own at 17. I bought my first house at 20, flipped it after renovating it myself, took my profit and used it to buy a run down old house that I'm again renovating myself. I only take home maybe 40k in a good year. And manage to support a family of five on it. You've probably blown more money on stupid shit than I've made in a year.
Pic related, that $1500 tractor you probably would have sold for scrap.
i would not have sold that tractor anon. no, i'm insanely jealous of it.
>tfw 7 acres of woods, and clearing any kind of pasture/garden area is backbreaking fricking labor.
It's hard work anon. I still split most of my winter firewood by hand just for the exercise, and I can do the nice straight grain maple faster by hand than with my wood splitter
You can pick up ford n series tractors cheap, and a monkey could fix one up. Food for thought.
Stay mad. Started an apprenticeship at 18. Rented a shithole basement apartment in a shithole city from 17 - 20, saved 15k for downpayment on first house. I even had my first kid at 21 with a girl I shouldnt have to throw a wrench in the works. Sold my house and everything I owned, left the city I was in and started fresh on my homestead.
All my parents gave me was a lesson in how to waste money, an introduction to alcoholism and a crash course on how to drunkenly yell and scream at your spouse over nothing for 20+ years. But go on, tell me what else you think you know about me. I'll wont about you when I'm working my land, pic related
yeah, i can fell and split wood all day, chainsaw of course for felling, but really digging my helko splitting axe -- use quite a bit of wood chips for landscaping, so there's that.
but man, it's the stumps.
turning a few acres of pic related into pasture without a tractor would be a massive undertaking (for reference, my garden is top center of pic). right now it's great for hiking with the kid, we can step outside our back door and be in the middle of an actual forest in minutes.
Stumps are a b***h, you need a dozer for that. Even a well rooted small stump will stop my 75hp 4x4 tractor dead in its tracks.
For that reason, I burn most of my stumps out, or let them rot.
+1 on the dozer. Would be worth it just to pay to have a dozer come in to destump and level out where you want pasture. And find an old tractor to work your ground after
>yup just pulled myself up by my bootstraps with my free 40 acres that I was told about years in advance
Suck a dick with your larp about moving out at 13 or whatever. You were born on east street, full stop.
probably got his job through nepotism and down payment for that first house from the bank of dad too
jealous under age future neet detected.
>Oh boo hoo. I inherited about 40 acres of woods
Reread this
40 acres almost anywhere in the US is several years wages if not several decades wages, You literally skipped over decades of work and debt by virtue of your birth, full stop, regardless of anything else you did, so stop being a homosexual and accept you had a shortcut handed to you on a silver platter.
This coming from someone who had to scrape and work for years to buy 5 acres of woods
Your ancestors could have bought when land was cheap too. Why should anon have to bow and scrape because his family still had a small piece of land to give him?
post the estimated value of that land or you're a homosexual
someone's jelly
Cry harder b***h, sorry about your luck.
My ancestors put in the hard work to leave me property, maybe if you weren’t such a c**t you could do the same for your descendants.
>inb4 muh boomers
Try pioneers.
I’ve got a similar situation.
Utah.
Dad has 200 ish acres, uncle has the other 200 but his only son is a pile of shit so I’ll be able to buy that from him when he’s ready to let it go.
There’s another 160 acres I want to buy and I’ll be able to get it relatively cheaply because my dad and another land owner control the right of way, so naturally that land isn’t valuable to anyone but the neighbors.
I’m working in mining, 130k a year in a state with no income tax and I’ll be saving and selling my real estate investments to pay for developing the cedars and sagebrush into a farm/ranch that I can work.
Best part is there’s public land one way and Indian ground the other way.
They will never develop the Indian land so there will be miles and miles of undisturbed wilderness right next door.
I’m 30 and gonna inherit about 300K in the next 5-10 years (hopefully not, but not even Grandma lasts forever.) Where should I look at purchasing land/building a home?
Live wherever you heart desires anon. 🙂
>Go to Google
>Type in "cheap acreage".
>Profit
Will be doing this myself, if not to just have somewhere to camp any time I want.
I bought 40 acres in Northern Michigan.
I was going to tax auctions but kept getting beat out on my bids because I only had a 50-55k cash budget. Turns out it was a blessing in disguise because all the 80 acre plots I was looking at in the UP were a 10+ hour drive from grand rapids and the years of land prep would have been much less productive with it being so far away.
I settled on the 40 acres 2 1/2 hours from home and bought it for just over 35k. Now I've just been planting fruit trees and cover crops, this year I'm putting in a small "shed" and digging swales.
I'm pretty hype tbh senpai. When I'm driving up I just get more and more excited as I get closer.
One word easement. Run Run Run, it'll be a fricking nightmare, going either way for you or for someone else.
Too true. Distance really does matter & clearing land can be a real time killer.
Just got 30 acres in the U.P. drive is a bit of a killer 4 hours away, 2 to 3 hours would have been much nicer.
Looked at it before spring & didn't look like too much of a job to clear. Went back after everything grew up & yeah it will be a job & a half to clear, likely years without having to hire it out.
Michigan is such a slept on PrepHole state it's unreal
The climate is horrendous.
It's phenomenal 3 months out of the year. Then you want to leave.
7+ month winters with 4-6ft deep drifts and endless cloud cover are miserable.
The cloud cover is actually WORSE than Portland, year-round, just the sunny days are a little more spread out. The hours of rain (not fall) are WORSE than Portland too.
There's a reason they call it the PNW of the Midwest.
There's weeks you can't leave your place without a serious offroading truck.
The soil is loamy and poor north of GR, there's a reason it's in the Midwest yet covered in low$$ softwood forestry.
Also it's flat, almost totally flat.
Geology is blandness.
You can get wooded bare-minimum-$ acreage in the Carolinas/TN, and you get hills, views, and a warm climate with it. Also those states don't have Detroit in them, a fact that cannot be understated for how it affects state politics.
Purely on land and local politics, there's southern OR which is gorgeous in ways MI is not.
I was considering MI for a while, but god no that climate, why? So many better options.
The only reason to live in Northern MI is a summer lakehouse. For that, it's hard to beat, and it's far nicer than northern WI.
testing
>wahh, everything is too expensive life isn't fair
Ok, thanks for sharing. Anyway-
I'm on 10 acres in the Sierra Nevada mountains. If you live in the mountains or foothills, before you buy, you really have to be conscious of the topography. If you look in the summer and the property is on a north facing slope, may seem great then, but in the summer you can be 30f colder than a lot a quarter mile away. I am on the top of a hill, in the winter on days where my ground is thawed out at 8am, I can drive a few hundred yards away and the ground on a shaded property is still frosty at 11am. If you live in AZ/NM you may want this though. It's really hard to know if you haven't spent a lot of time in the area before moving there. Wells are another big challenge, it's a big investment and not necessarily guaranteed you will have high pressure, good water for a reasonable drilling price.
There isn't a single person on this board that can afford land in the Sierras. Maybe you're a few miles away from the foothills, but I doubt it.
my biggest concern is property taxes.
american anon what country outside of usa should I purchase land in?
Land in Poland is cheap. But then you'd have to live in Poland. Take that as a positive or negative, is up to you.
Why would anyone want to live anywhere else but America
its expensive and cold climate
There are a lot of anons on this board they dont understand the state of the monetary system.
Hi, your friendly local zoning inspector here. Just to remind you, our township requires that you build at minimum a 1,250 square foot house on a permanent foundation.
All trailers, RVs, and Kaczynski cabins will be promptly bulldozed. :^)
>Hi, your friendly local zoning inspector here
Oh look, the fertilizer I ordered arrived early.
>bang bang bang bang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Harry_Collinson
The only permit required in my county is septic.
They don't give a shit if you don't have electricity or water or if you make a tree fort out of pallets and live in it.
But if theirs raw sewage that can contaminate a water way or neighbor's land they'll evict you from your own property.
what county is that out of curiousity?
Central Georgia (state not country).
That's actually law in all the surrounding counties (friend works for the health department that deals with permits).
If you live on your own land then all that's required is the septic.
If you want to rent it out you need a "certificate of occupancy" so you'd need water and such.
Just to add-
Part of the reason the codes are this way is because we get people from other states (like florida) that buy hunting land and drive their motor home up for a couple months during deer season.
Georgia has about 10 million people, about 2 million are in Atlanta. So 8 million people in the largest state east of the Mississippi River means its extremely rural.
Perk test, survey, wetlands-a lot of places earmark land for the politically connected and will make it crazy expensive for you to do anything (USA)
What do you guys think of this cabin on 14 acres near a large ski resort and state forests? It looks like a good deal but I'm not sure if I want to be tied down to NY and the northeast. The deadline for offers is tomorrow evening and I'm still undecided.
ummm, that sounds like bliss
why are you posting it instead of secretly making an offer?
>less than 2 miles from the ski resort.
Badass.
But.
That property gets snowed in during the winter.
Also
>land is level
So when that snow melts it turns into a slush pit.
Just something to think about.
>600 sq feet
Looks good bub, I too enjoy living in my closet.
is your closet on 14 acres near the lake and skiing?
No but my 3000sq ft home is lol
Post view from your front door.
We'll wait
>implying I'm going to post a picture of my home or family on PrepHole.
I've seen weaponized autism in action. I'm good. Don't believe me. I don't care. I'm just saying that house that anon posted was the size of the room I'm in right now. Acerage is great, but don't buy a 600sq ft home unless you intend on making a 1500ft extention
Crypto is a giant ponzi scheme and its not coming back
I hear the ticks are out of control there though, like, have taken down an entire moose by themselves bad
600sqft is fine for one person.
1000sqft is sufficient for two.
Add 300sqft per kid.
I've been in plenty of "cottage" sized houses that were fully livable.
The rest is consumerism.
You don't need a barndominium to be happy.
If you think you do, you'll never be happy.
No garage? Where will you keep your lawn mower? Your gas? What about a tractor? Will you have a tool box? You have no garage or pole barn in this 600sq ft closet. I don't know why I'm even arguing this. You're obviously arguing to argue. Anyone who ACTUALLY OWNS a home or ACTUALLY OWNS land knows that 600sq feet isn't enough to maintain a property of that magnitude. I will no longer respond to your mindless babble. Continue to preach about how bad consumerism is from your iphone/apple/windows device you absolutel hypocrite. Suck my dick
Nobody includes a garage in the square footage.
I assume you'll have a garage or shed.
The property listing that started this says it has 2 sheds.
What are you going on about?
totally different poster anon, but that property specifically is not meant to be a primary residence. it's a vacation cottage, full stop.
at any rate though there's nothing stopping someone from buying a few pier blocks and plunking down a pre-fab shed for tools and the like. but 14 acres with lake access for that price is/was a steal -- the cottage would be great for vacation.
Also, it's not like you need to manage all 14 acres. You can just let 13 of them grow wild for seclusion's sake; your own personal woods.
Regardless of lot size, plenty of people live in houses that small. You guys need to get out more or something if you think the whole country's/world's living in 2500sqft houses or that they're remotely necessary.
What size house do you live in, hypocrite
kind of, yeah.
mine's 3 bed, 2 bath, 1700 square feet. living/master are completely cavernous and could easily be 1/4 the size, the other two bedrooms are 10x12 and could be a bit smaller and still totally livable. if you've ever been to a house built in the early 20th century (or earlier) it's amazing how small / low everything feels. a 600 ft 2bed 1 bath house would be passable, not ideal, but passable.
again though, the unit we're discussing is definitely a vacation house. shit, wife and I have rented similar ourselves on the beach for a week and it was fine. would we want to live there necessarily full time? nahhh, but 14 fricking acres next to a lake? hell yes for a vacation house for a few weeks in the summer.
>hell yes for a vacation house for a few weeks in the summer
What about a few weeks in the winter? There's a ski resort literally across the street from that listing.
Looks sweet, pond could be pretty fricking cool if you stocked it with trout. I wonder if it is spring fed? House is gonna be cold af in the winter, insulate the frick out of it.
Seems to good to be true. Judging from the comps in the area there must be a catch. Ellicotville is a nice little town. HV is tiny at 750ft vertical but often gets killer lake effect snow...I wonder if knuckleheads from Buffalo are a problem on weekends etc..
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/0-Poverty-Hill-Rd-24-Ellicottville-NY-14731/2063176632_zpid/
>I wonder if it is spring fed?
its says that right in the description
Um no I buy drugs and still live on land...rent free
only ever bought land to add to our pre existing ranches. Most often I see my friends not recognizing some land feature issues like drainage areas and other major downsides one may not recognized if they aren't used to land buying.
Thinking about moving from Texas to up north to somewhere like Minnesota or Wisconsin. Is it worth dealing with the 6 months of snow for 2-3 months of decent weather?
Depends, do you have a kink for shoveling snow and staying inside half the year?
if you don't have any way to enjoy winter it isn't worth it
>he doesn't think snow is decent weather.
you have answered your own question.
My parents own 40 acres in northern Minnesota that I've been camping and stuff at. It's all wooded and kind of swampy so not the ideal place to build a homestead. I intend on buying land out west somewhere when I have the means to do so and building a homestead there. If things don't work out for whatever reason, I'll do something on my parents' land.
>northern Minnesota
Worse weather than AK, not even kidding. Northern Midwest is just misery.
Godspeed to greener grass (or at least less soggy) and sunnier days, anon.
i dont understand why anyone lives in the dakotas. if anyone here is from there i am pretty curious what you like about it. all pictures ive seen look like flatland as far as the eye can see with brutal winters on top of that.
oil and farms
Five prostitutes too, you just gotta share.
if you got offered to go homestead with your friend and his wife on his property, and neither of them have strong feelings what location it will be... would you do it, if they were Black folk? serious question.
i looked at land for sale here in missouri, fricking boomers wanting 6-10k an acre for shitty hard packed clay they fricked up with a tractor can't die soon enough
If you can hear/see people, then you'll have issues.
What panhandle do you think has the potential?
Really want to get some decent rural land and am trying to save up. I know this is a dumb question with no easy answer: is 50K-100K good to buy five acres virgin and put a dwelling on it? Most of the cheap land online sucks, so I figure I need to look around on foot to get a good deal.
Zillow can help but yes often driving around in the country is the way to go. I would suggest waiting a few months to a year for the market to drop a bit more.
As far as what a good deal is it depends on where you are and the surrounding area and taxes, etc. You pretty much scream young 20s naive kid
Naive late 20s. Spent most of my life being a shut-in and trying to make baby steps towards getting PrepHole since I cannot stand being stuck in a city.
I haven't a single plot in mind. My dream plot is something fairly remote, flat, and I can sustain myself off gardening/orchards/keeping some animals like goats and chickens. I am willing to figure out how to PrepHole so I can stretch my money as far as I can.
how close is it to a town, is it in a swamp, can a section be cleared for you to build and live on, can it have a well put on it?
50k or so would likely get you the land.
figure another 10 for septic, then probably another 10 for a well. mains power would be the wildcard, if it's already on site, you're set, else.. the sky's the limit on that one. (a beefy enough solar setup for your well would be north of15k probably, mostly in batteries.)
would be worth checking whatever jurisdiction you land on for what kind of dwelling requirements they'd have. (i.e. can you just drop a prefab shed on it, with or with a foundation)
more than likely all of this would need to be a cash deal mind you, getting a bank to fund something like this is just not going to happen
I see. I figure I might try to LARP by sacrificing comforts. I realize if I want a "modern" home in the middle of nowhere it's going to be difficult and expensive to set up. If I can have primitive equivalents then I can use those as drop-in replacements or go without if I decide it's not worth it.
the silver lining is that if you wanted a traditional house, it's actually easier, as you can get bank financing. in our case it was actually cheaper (by a good margin) to build a new house out in the woods than it was to buy an existing one.
new house on 3.x acres was about 250k; which in my area (lane county, OR) an equivalent house without land would have been easily 350-400k (pre-covid). basically you can take out a construction loan that would fund the land purchase, site dev, and construction costs. upon completion it rolls into a conventional fixed rate mortgage. the appreciation offsets the PMI requirement. i forget the exact percentage we had to come up with out of pocket for a down payment, but it was no where near 20%.
permitting and approval from the county is of course a challenge, hopefully where you're looking they have a more amenable attitude towards new development. oregon is very much anti-development; particularly in farm/ag zones.
Small world. I am a WA guy and have been to Oregon. I think I prefer staying in-state for the climate and scenery. I love the greenery here. That new construction deal you're talking about sounds sweet - <20% down makes it very feasible if I continue saving up. I don't have a solid plan, but I have been exercising great discipline to set aside as much as I can in the meantime; I am convinced that I am not meant for city living.
Nice, whereabouts in WA? Grew up in Easter or, just south of walla walla; homesick every day.
Orbiting Portland. The locals are very eclectic.
>Build new vs buy used
Absolutely build new (once prices return to normal).
$/sqft is the same everywhere I've looked between 70yo houses and 10yo houses, with similar finishes, even without.
The markets are moronic.
>itt men of all ages arguing with each other about the economy because none of them are smart enough to realize that it is the eternal israelite that is to blame
Go visit the land. Don't buy site unseen
Let's share a laugh and look at an example of why I will move from Germany to the US within the next few years (I'm already a citizen so frick off).
This is an excerpt of a listing for a house:
"Auch das dazugehörige Grundstück lässt durch seine Großzügigkeit keine Wünsche offen. Ob Blumenstauden, Hochbeete für die Gemüsezucht oder Platz für die Kinder zum Spielen: Auf 210 Quadratmetern ist alles möglich."
Translated: "The property surrounding the house leaves no wish unfulfilled due to how spacious it is. Whether you want to plant some flower beds, grow vegetables in a raised bed, or give your children a place to play: everything is possible on 210 square meters."
Looking more closely on the listing they made a mistake as the property is 880sqm, while the house is 210sqm. 880sqm, which is between a fifth and quarter of an acre, is already considered huge here. Mind that this is in bumfrick nowhere.
The listing price is 250k Euros.
looking at properties in this price range on landwatch makes me fricking angry when I compare it to this socialist hellhole.
>between a fifth and quarter of an acre
Now you’re speaking American. Welcome home, friend.
There is no way all land in Germany costs this much. Give address.
How can anyone afford to farm at those prices? A typical 150ac farm would cost like $6M/yr in financing. They don't net anywhere near that much, even in the prime of the Midwest. The economics don't make sense there.
At any rate, Germany is like the more developed parts of the US crammed into a smaller country. Maybe the California of Europe is Netherlands-London-Belgium region, but still Germany is still very developed, no? $1M/ac is ridiculous, but I'm sure there's cheaper land about.
But you are welcome to escape socialism for US regardless, deutschfren, just we're following on your guys' heels very closely these days. Nobody learns, all silver tarnishes.
We don't have miles and miles of acres that just can be used for housing, unironically every inch in germany, from the mountains to the forests to the smallest river has some kind of use and needs to be noted down somewhere.
The only people with huge land are farmers that still have their property from when they upended the monarchies and sheeeet, and even they can't easily just turn around and make their forest or farmland to a housing zone because of the exorbitant amount of bureacracy needed.
Still waiting for that address.
I am doubt.
Sounds like ecosocialist nightmare.
They want that here too. In time, all in time. Picrel does not include state-owned lands, which can be massive in certain states.
It's inevitable, there's only so much land here.
>Still waiting for that address.
>I am doubt.
not sure why you don't believe it, germany has a population density of 240 per km2 (623 people per mi2), checked some shitty statistics and it seems that's in the very high range for USA state standards
pic related is 1400m2 or 0,35 Acre, for 1.7 million euro
Bumping for
do note that there isn't any possibility of buying "cheap" land. Pic related is around 1 acre for under 100k
But there's always, ALWAYS some kind of catch, for ex. no electrical/plumbing/water connections, near an airport etc.
Exactly. Also, you can’t build structures or get a permit for living there. Here in Germany there is some kind of law that you can only build within a certain range of a community or some shit. So even if you get a parcel of wooded land in the forest you’re not allowed to build a cabin or live there. You’d just never get the permits. If you mention this to the average Michel they don’t even get the problem. Why farm when you can go to LIDL?
There is no sentiment of homesteading or farming on a small scale like in the US.
So what are the uses for such a land?
that's how it is throughout large swaths of the US as well.
most familiar with oregon, but here it's
>you cannot park an RV on your land for more than 2 weeks at a time without moving it
>you cannot live in a shed/cabin more than a few weeks at a time
>you cannot build a permanent structure without permits (which are nigh impossible to get)
oregon in particular is quite concerned with preserving farm and forest land, and the pendulum has swung HARD against new development in these areas. i can see both sides of the coin; i wouldn't want to live in an area with a bunch of broken down methwagon RV's parked all over creation, without any septic or other infrastructure, they're at best an eyesore.
but i think they need to open up more to homesteading; as in allowing small structures with or without foundations/mains/wells etc, and let people do their own thing on land that they own.
tl;dr it's a balance, a really hard balance to get right.
>oregon
The entire West Coast is a lost cause, along with the rest of the Red Zone of government control to the west of Denver (and Denver itself).
However, there are still many areas with easy permitting for new structures, even shacks/RVs, though not always.
That window is likely shutting in the next generation. Too many HOAbrained Nancies want to control everything and remove all the "eyesores" of people living freely and unchained to bank loans. I'm amazed you can still build houses with wood you milled yourself. Or wood at all. Some day soon...
Of course, the business class can't fathom maintaining current population levels, so we just keep slamming more people into the country and everything will fill up, get zoned, and eventually restricted, and envirosocialists will give trees and turtles more rights than humans, because carbon or somesuch bullshit.
Well, I won't fully believe it until I see it I guess.
Don't you love your manicured garden prison cell?
You can look at the trees, just don't touch.
You've more or less reverted entirely to feudalism then. Take your small cottage, work in your corporate fief, pay the crown its massive annual due, and look at all the beautiful land around you owned by the privileged gentry.
Whatever you do, don't hunt or cut down the lords' woods.
3 steps, from serfdom and back again.
Urban Americans are all too happy to join you. Most of them have never even stepped foot on a farm.
>You've more or less reverted entirely to feudalism then
I brought this up to my friends as well because it really is like that. But it's a wagies dream here and you can consoooom so not that many people are bothered by it. In fact they do look down on 'muh freedom' trumpers and americans. But I think this is mainly because of leftists being so vocal on social media. So many people blacked out their profile pics during the BLM riots or posted something about abortion.
The good thing is that I'm in a good position and I am looking forward to a change, it makes no sense to just complain and b***h about stuff. It is how it is.
god bless texas