I was talking about the Military Submachine gun, they obviously aren't paying $2500 per gun. So price isn't a factor here. Even if that's what they payed, I'm asking about the performance
I'll just buy a pistol carbine kit instead.
Is that going to be as durable? These guys are meant to be shot a lot.
I'm not american and conversion kits are hell of expensive in my country, but still far less expensive than any PCC ; would it be possible to build a poorman PCC with a Glock (I own a 45), the lightest conversion kit available (recover tactical ?), and probably a switch (that illegal thing all festive gangsta youth in US videos seem to own) ?
>HK wants to stop making MP5, need better profit margins >develop UMP as cheap replacement to sell to militaries >everyone laughs and demands more MP5's >B&T get the contract for cheaper blowback SMG
how are HK so bad at this
Not that I expect anyone to believe me but having experience with these first hand here's what I've been told and personally experienced
>much smaller than any M4, makes them real good for carrying under a coat, inside a backpack, under ihram clothing (like under over GBs did in Iraq) it's even smaller than an MP5 >Easy to source 9mm anywhere in the world >More reliable and simpler design than an M4 >It's small weight makes it valuable for troops who are incredibly unlikely to see combat or in confined spaces (like a tank) while still giving them a controllable full auto weapon system that can still hit men out to 300 yards
Honestly it still has its niche. The reality is that it's easier to give someone one of these than to train a soldier to shoot at a Grandmaster Level with their M17. You'd think by now PrepHole being a weapons board would understand the meaning of "right tool for the right job". The only thing I didn't like about it was the recoil impulse since it's blowback (albeit a well done blowback that still feels really good due to the built in buffer), but i understand they were going for reliability, durability and ease of maintenance over some laser beam of a gun like the finnicky MPX or JP5
It's only for specific close protection teams, the initial order was 350 with options for 1000 and there hasn't been any new orders since 2019.
Great, but expensive for blowback 9mm pcc. $2500 is steep considering what you’re getting.
I was talking about the Military Submachine gun, they obviously aren't paying $2500 per gun. So price isn't a factor here. Even if that's what they payed, I'm asking about the performance
[...]
Is that going to be as durable? These guys are meant to be shot a lot.
The full contract price is 2.575 mil, and that's excising that full 1000 gun option, which works out to ~2575 a unit. However, the contract is plus spares and equipment. It's still pretty close to MSRP.
Fucking stupid decision from an acquisitions standpoint. Too expensive, and huge step backwards in capability. There is a reason why we got rid of SMGs decades ago.
It’s bigger than a machine pistol and was designed to be an smg from the get go with the stock.
Most of the machine pistols were designed as regular pistols first before getting a full auto option and afterthought of a stock option and foregrip.
Because they don't want to retrain the retards that will be using (standing and holding) it. It has nearly identical ergos an AR minus the charging handle
I never got this shit, do people really totally forget how to operate a firearm when they pick up something somewhat different? And that issue will be nonexistent for the next training wave that learns on it from the start.
I think this is probably an issue with soldier touch points. PM's gotta realize when prioritizing soldier familiarity is holding back a more efficient or effective system.
In any case this is for secret service-tier professionals that can handle different ergonomics. SOF already runs MP7s.
This. How fucking retarded you have to be to not be able to use something that essentially has pistol ergos?
This.
Why do fuck youwant anything but mag in the grip for SMG?
As someone who owns both, the APC9 is built in a much more bomb proof way. You can't even compare them. The APC9 is much more practical for the military.
That's military runs M4 carbine that brakes during 1.5 m drop test. They clearly don't need don't want bomb proof. Especially for special snowflake office warrior jobs.
Price notwithstanding, its over engineered for a blowback sub gun. Blowback guns don't shoot nearly as well as any locking action and for the effort they put in they could and should have made it so. I would choose a CMMG Banshee or Sig MPX over this.
Great, but expensive for blowback 9mm pcc. $2500 is steep considering what you’re getting.
I was talking about the Military Submachine gun, they obviously aren't paying $2500 per gun. So price isn't a factor here. Even if that's what they payed, I'm asking about the performance
Is that going to be as durable? These guys are meant to be shot a lot.
I'll just buy a pistol carbine kit instead.
I'm not american and conversion kits are hell of expensive in my country, but still far less expensive than any PCC ; would it be possible to build a poorman PCC with a Glock (I own a 45), the lightest conversion kit available (recover tactical ?), and probably a switch (that illegal thing all festive gangsta youth in US videos seem to own) ?
why is the magwell so burger huge
Gotta have that duplo-scale fore grip.
>What do you think about X PCC
I don't.
>typical Feminine attention seeking post
>HK wants to stop making MP5, need better profit margins
>develop UMP as cheap replacement to sell to militaries
>everyone laughs and demands more MP5's
>B&T get the contract for cheaper blowback SMG
how are HK so bad at this
Timing. Same reason the g11 wasn't adopted in any significant capacity. God hates hk
And HK mostly deserves it
The problem is the UMP is a fucking huge gun for just being a PCC. Shit needed to be like half the size in order to worth using over a MP5.
Because that gun legitimately fucking sucks ass. And the MP5 is based.
>Develops gun with even larger footprint AND worse recoil
>confused by lack of sales
Never change Hk
FUCKING GTA LOOKING GUN
Makes the Montgo-9 upper seem very reasonably priced
Kinda tempted all of a sudden to get one of those for $440
https://www.deltateamtactical.com/Matador-Arms-Montgo-9-Complete-9mm-Upper_p_36080.html
did they buy them with silencers?
How long is it's barrel? 4"?
Why do they need a submachine gun? Is ther enough of a gap between a handgun and M4A1 to necessitate it for pilots/crewmembers?
Outdated doctrine.
Not that I expect anyone to believe me but having experience with these first hand here's what I've been told and personally experienced
>much smaller than any M4, makes them real good for carrying under a coat, inside a backpack, under ihram clothing (like under over GBs did in Iraq) it's even smaller than an MP5
>Easy to source 9mm anywhere in the world
>More reliable and simpler design than an M4
>It's small weight makes it valuable for troops who are incredibly unlikely to see combat or in confined spaces (like a tank) while still giving them a controllable full auto weapon system that can still hit men out to 300 yards
Honestly it still has its niche. The reality is that it's easier to give someone one of these than to train a soldier to shoot at a Grandmaster Level with their M17. You'd think by now PrepHole being a weapons board would understand the meaning of "right tool for the right job". The only thing I didn't like about it was the recoil impulse since it's blowback (albeit a well done blowback that still feels really good due to the built in buffer), but i understand they were going for reliability, durability and ease of maintenance over some laser beam of a gun like the finnicky MPX or JP5
It's only for specific close protection teams, the initial order was 350 with options for 1000 and there hasn't been any new orders since 2019.
The full contract price is 2.575 mil, and that's excising that full 1000 gun option, which works out to ~2575 a unit. However, the contract is plus spares and equipment. It's still pretty close to MSRP.
https://sam.gov/opp/e001bfaf6f293d0401029cd8052312ec/view
Handguard too short, I foresee many hands being shot during range qualification.
How is that better than a much smaller, lighter, cheaper glock?
These are twice as expensive as they should be and it's because retards keep paying MP5 money for a shitty blowback
Waiting for the rest to show up
Fucking stupid decision from an acquisitions standpoint. Too expensive, and huge step backwards in capability. There is a reason why we got rid of SMGs decades ago.
Decent. The US military is sucking a lot of Swiss balls lately in contract awarding.
It's shit. Didn't even go with the superior B&T option
This.
Why do fuck youwant anything but mag in the grip for SMG?
Isn't this just a full auto pistol with a foregrip, stock, and sight?
I that all an "SMG" is?
The more I learn about guns the more confused I become.
It’s bigger than a machine pistol and was designed to be an smg from the get go with the stock.
Most of the machine pistols were designed as regular pistols first before getting a full auto option and afterthought of a stock option and foregrip.
why would you ever put the magazine in front of the grip instead of inside or behind it?
Because they don't want to retrain the retards that will be using (standing and holding) it. It has nearly identical ergos an AR minus the charging handle
I never got this shit, do people really totally forget how to operate a firearm when they pick up something somewhat different? And that issue will be nonexistent for the next training wave that learns on it from the start.
I think this is probably an issue with soldier touch points. PM's gotta realize when prioritizing soldier familiarity is holding back a more efficient or effective system.
In any case this is for secret service-tier professionals that can handle different ergonomics. SOF already runs MP7s.
This. How fucking retarded you have to be to not be able to use something that essentially has pistol ergos?
As someone who owns both, the APC9 is built in a much more bomb proof way. You can't even compare them. The APC9 is much more practical for the military.
>much more practical for the military
Tell that to tards running around with MP7s
That's military runs M4 carbine that brakes during 1.5 m drop test. They clearly don't need don't want bomb proof. Especially for special snowflake office warrior jobs.
Holy ESL
It's simple reliable and good.
Did they just copy an fgc 9?
Is it 7.62 tokarev?
No?
It's SHIT
this thread is full of denning krugman affect retards
Price notwithstanding, its over engineered for a blowback sub gun. Blowback guns don't shoot nearly as well as any locking action and for the effort they put in they could and should have made it so. I would choose a CMMG Banshee or Sig MPX over this.