Brass case tech has a pressure limit of somewhere around 400 MPa and yet pretty much all pistol calibers are around 200 MPa, what gives?

Brass case tech has a pressure limit of somewhere around 400 MPa and yet pretty much all pistol calibers are around 200 MPa, what gives? We could have cartridges with the exact same form factor bu 2x the power and all you'd have to do is slightly beef up the pistols locking system.

250 Piece Survival Gear First Aid Kit

LifeStraw Water Filter for Hiking and Preparedness

250 Piece Survival Gear First Aid Kit

  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    To be fair, 5.7 and 30SC are both 50kpsi. I think 7.5 FK is up there too.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Double the pressure on a .45 ACP and you get .454 Casull. Obnoxious recoil, and even more obnoxious muzzle blast. Meanwhile, there isn't much of an improvement in lethality. .44 Magnum is "double the power" of most pistol rounds on paper, yet in real world shooting statistics it doesn't perform any better than most typical handgun rounds. What you are proposing would make the pistol obnoxious to shoot yet not really any more effective--at least on people.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      "I don't care."

      Some men want to see past the horizon, go to places unexplored, stand with their face naked to the storm, or just hear the cannon roar.

      You...wouldn't understand.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        i mean, get .454 casull.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Some men want to see past the horizon, go to places unexplored, stand with their face naked to the storm, or just hear the cannon roar.
        >t. lives in a studio apartment, owns 0 guns and has never spent a night outside of shelter.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Some men want to see past the horizon, go to places unexplored, stand with their face naked to the storm, or just hear the cannon roar.
        >t. lives in a studio apartment, owns 0 guns and has never spent a night outside of shelter.

        BTFO

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >and you get .454 Casull.
      .454 Casull.also has double case capacity.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The only reason modern "magnum" rounds are longer than their parent catridge is to stop morons from using them in weaker guns designed for the parent cartridge. You could easily load a .38 Spl to .357 Mag performance within the .38 Spl case. Same with .454 Casull and .45 Colt.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          This is bullshit. The performance ceiling on basically every common magnum pistol caliber is 'How much H110 fits in the case?'
          This is the entire reason .357 Maximum exists. Peak pressure is only part of the equation, slower burning powder with a flatter pressure curve can maintain higher pressures for longer and accelerate bullets to higher velocities.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      spbp

      https://i.imgur.com/Bwc5UjD.jpg

      Brass case tech has a pressure limit of somewhere around 400 MPa and yet pretty much all pistol calibers are around 200 MPa, what gives? We could have cartridges with the exact same form factor bu 2x the power and all you'd have to do is slightly beef up the pistols locking system.

      Literally the point of handguns is compromise. You're trading massively down from a long gun in order to get something much much smaller, human dynamics haven't changed much in the history of firearms so there are pretty hard limits to what makes sense in a handheld form factor. In turn that means there isn't a lot of actual difference between handgun bullets either, there simply isn't much physical envelope to play with. The exact best balance point for each person and application will vary a bit, but the whole universe has been explored pretty thoroughly at this point.

      "I don't care."

      Some men want to see past the horizon, go to places unexplored, stand with their face naked to the storm, or just hear the cannon roar.

      You...wouldn't understand.

      >hurr me do reinvent wheel others have done for a century is totally rugged individual ebin contrarian
      >no innovation is possible except tweaking cartridges for minimal real world effect
      Yeah. Also post handguns you own.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        All you need to make a 9mm handgun handle 400 MPa is to slightly beef up the locking system.
        >muh recoil
        Recoil is mass * velocity, kinetic energy, ie. effect on target is something else entirely...

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >kinetic energy, ie. effect on target
          oh no it's moronic

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Double the pressure on a .45 ACP and you get .454 Casull
      wrong. you'd have to triple it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      have a nice day moron. The real benefit obviously lays in getting .45 ACP effectiveness in half the size package because increasing pressure increases effectiveness but not size.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        So, .30 super carry?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >310 MPa loadings
          That's completely pathetic for a brand new cartridge when we know that brass cases can easily go to somewhere around 430 MPa as long as the chamber can handle it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It's exactly what anon asked for: .45 ACP performance in a smaller package.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              It's still not the maximum of what's easily achievable with conventional brass cases. I want maximum power from a small package. .45 ACP is not enough.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >It's still not the maximum of what's easily achievable with conventional brass cases
                Of course it isn't. That's not what anon asked for.

                >I want maximum power from a small package. .45 ACP is not enough.
                So, either you're replying to the wrong person, or you're moving the goalposts from the what you asked in

                have a nice day moron. The real benefit obviously lays in getting .45 ACP effectiveness in half the size package because increasing pressure increases effectiveness but not size.

                ?

                > I want maximum power from a small package. .45 ACP is not enough.
                It isn't? I doubt you can even control .45 ACP in a small package, let alone something stronger. Go shoot a scandium frame .45 and tell me you want more power. Be sure and post pictures of your groups too.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        45 gap or glock was that. 45acp performance from a brass case even smaller.
        It didnt sell well.

        If you reload you find brass already wears out too soon. Especially in less supported chambers that give more reliable cycling.

        You dont always need to be running things to thier limit, that just removes safety margins and wears things out faster.
        As things get old metal fatigues, small pits develop etc having everything overbuilt means instead of blowing up they continue to run normally.

        Many proof loads already do go close to maximum.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You can set your safety factor however you want and still see a similarly tough gun even with higher pressure

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            So now you either have a bulky, heavy gun or it's super expensive due to specialized manufacturing methods and materials. Everything is a trade-off or a compromise.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Not true tho.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Okay homosexual. Great argument.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I have come to you from the depths to reveal to you the greatest auto magnum cartridge since 10mm.
      >The .460 Rowland
      While unconvincing at first glance, the slightly elongated casing is frickin pissin hot.
      The recoil profile? Fricking comfy.
      Le stopping powa is cracked.
      Genuinely a good modernization of the .45 and acts as a .300 blk for the various .45 calibers. It's my bear gun for innawoods.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >The .460 Rowland
        This or the 7.5 frickoff is what I came here to post.
        Either could easily accomplish what this dumbass OP is after.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Same.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          .357 Sig is nearly in that ballpark as well. Pretty much every modern bottlenecked cartridge does what OP wants.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      its almost like shot placement matters more than caliber?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Double the pressure on a .45 ACP and you get .454 Casull. Obnoxious recoil, and even more obnoxious muzzle blast. Meanwhile, there isn't much of an improvement in lethality.
      You're moronic. .454 Casull is practically a full-power rifle round. Effect on target is comparable to a 12ga slug.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    you already b***h about 9mm's recoil.
    why don't you shoot a handgun caliber that's twice as powerful already?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Recoil does not have to increase for power to increase
      Those more powerful calibers are also frickhuge because their pressure is still pathetic

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Recoil does not have to increase for power to increase
        Way to admit you failed Physics 1. They're Newton's Laws, not Newton's Recommendations.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Read Black person read, this was taught to you in high school

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >What is "momentum"

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Look up TKO, Taylor Knock Out Index. Momentum is the force that slams into or penetrates into the target.

              https://www.n4lcd.com/calc/

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Something that does not necessarily correlate with KE...

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >he doesn't know
          Keep performance constant, boost psi, and lower propellant mass. Ez. Everyone forgets the propellant mass contributes to recoil.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            where does the work that is exerted on the bullet come from?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              PV=nRT Black person. Did you fail Physics 101?
              Pushing 8 grams [4 gram bullet + 4 gram powder] at 3000fps
              vs
              Pushing 6 grams [4 gram bullet + 2 gram powder] at 3000fps
              Which do you think has more recoil?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                What does that have to do with "increasing power", like the goalposts already stated? If the goal is to increase power, shouldn't the latter cartridge have either a heavier bullet or higher velocity?

                Also, WTF is up with those numbers? Powder weight equal or half the weight of the bullet? that's fricking absurd.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That's interesting how half of the powder generated the same volume and mass of gas at the same temperature.
                did you, perhaps, never have any instruction in thermodynamics?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                damn, that's crazy. as soon as someone mentions anything beyond highschool education everyone clams up

                Let’s pretend OP isn’t a moronic homosexual for a minute and play with this idea.
                .25 ACP sized pistols with 5.7 energy sounds neat.
                .380 hitting like .357 does as well
                So what are the technological hurdles? Do pistols need to be locked with a rotating bolt like the Desert Eagle? Some kind of space age steel alloy for the bolt and barrel?

                >380 hitting like .357 does as well
                again, people are already whiney homosexuals about recoil, you won't be able to make a gun that powerful that people want to shoot all that much.
                380 is nice because it fits in small guns and is LESS powerful than 9mm. making it more powerful means it'll be dogshit in smaller guns and require a large handgun to fire comfortably. then you may as well make the cartridge larger because you aren't gaining anything from it being small.

                Recoil = momentum impulse especially the maximum force felt.
                Kinetic energy and total momentum can differ from perceived recoil.

                thanks, moron.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >people are already whiney homosexuals about recoil
                I’m a 10mm gay, you don’t need to remind me that people are b***hes about recoil. It just sounds fun and like you could potentially improve terminal performance from a sidearm to the point that it isn’t a complete waste of weight and bulk for CQB and I like thought experiments like this.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                ok, go on quick load and show us.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Here’s what the Powley computer estimated a .380 at 59000 PSI would do. A little over 500 ft*lbs with a 4” barrel and slightly over 1600 fps. But it would need a stupid fast burning powder

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                NTA and correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the gas leaving the barrel at a much higher velocity than 3k?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Propellant mass is fricking tiny compared to the mass of the projectile. 9mm for example has about 6-7 grains of powder for a bullet weighing over 100 grains.

            Also, if you're trying to simultaneously increase pressure while decreasing the charge mass you are going to need some remarkably hot powder, and now loading becomes tricky because a tiny little bit of variation in the loading process suddenly becomes dangerously overpressured.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              > now loading becomes tricky because a tiny little bit of variation in the loading process suddenly becomes dangerously overpressured.
              Fudds' fear of modern quality control is holding us back. Once upon a time handloaders pushed the state of the art forward but now they're freezing it in the 20th century.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Fudds' fear of modern quality control is holding us back.
                Modern quality control *is* the problem, anon. The standard error in commercial cartridge production is enough to turn what you're proposing into tens of thousands of pounds of overpressure.

                > Once upon a time handloaders pushed the state of the art forward but now they're freezing it in the 20th century.
                It sure sounds like virgins discussing sex in here

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >high pressures not a problem in rifles
                >high pressures suddenly a problem with pistols
                sounds like excuses to me

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Did you brain stop working? "High pressures" aren't the problem. The problem was explained in

                Propellant mass is fricking tiny compared to the mass of the projectile. 9mm for example has about 6-7 grains of powder for a bullet weighing over 100 grains.

                Also, if you're trying to simultaneously increase pressure while decreasing the charge mass you are going to need some remarkably hot powder, and now loading becomes tricky because a tiny little bit of variation in the loading process suddenly becomes dangerously overpressured.

                . It is specifically your desire to have super-small amounts of propellant generate this higher pressure.

                Again, it sure sounds like virgins discussing sex in here. You appear to have a very poor grasp of both physics and handloading. Are you fourteen or something?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Weight of propellant is so miniscule already that further reducing it is not of significant importance.
                Therefore there is absolutely no real problem with loading 9mm up to 60 000 PSI

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Weight of propellant is so miniscule already that further reducing it is not of significant importance.
                Yes, I said that in

                Propellant mass is fricking tiny compared to the mass of the projectile. 9mm for example has about 6-7 grains of powder for a bullet weighing over 100 grains.

                Also, if you're trying to simultaneously increase pressure while decreasing the charge mass you are going to need some remarkably hot powder, and now loading becomes tricky because a tiny little bit of variation in the loading process suddenly becomes dangerously overpressured.

                >Therefore there is absolutely no real problem with loading 9mm up to 60 000 PSI
                Nope, not at all. 9mm could easily be loaded to that pressure, assuming the gun was strong enough to withstand it. Though I'm not sure why you're replying to me about that, this whole series of posts goes back to

                >he doesn't know
                Keep performance constant, boost psi, and lower propellant mass. Ez. Everyone forgets the propellant mass contributes to recoil.

                talking about wanting to lower propellant mass. If that's not you, why are you replying to me?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                And apparently the guns are strong enough. I remember someone a couple years ago loaded shell shock 9mm cases to 70kpsi without issue.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >it's another boomers making sex jokes to cope with Luddism episode

                https://i.imgur.com/Bwc5UjD.jpg

                Brass case tech has a pressure limit of somewhere around 400 MPa and yet pretty much all pistol calibers are around 200 MPa, what gives? We could have cartridges with the exact same form factor bu 2x the power and all you'd have to do is slightly beef up the pistols locking system.

                I want 5.7 pistols with 556 energy and I want them now! 4" stellite barrels with 120kpsi pressure!

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >>it's another boomers making sex jokes to cope with Luddism episode
                Sorry son, with my advanced age it's getting hard to recall things, but I'm pretty sure I just asked you two questions and you forgot to answer either one of them. Is this the infamously short "Generation Z" attention span I keep reading about in the paper?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                120mm APFSDS already does 560 MPa.
                With modern existing technology we could truly already have 5.7 pistols with 5.56 SBR energy.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I'd also be real frickin nervous about powder burning that fast having wild fluctuations based on external temperature.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Those more powerful calibers are also frickhuge because their pressure is still pathetic
        Are you moronic? Stuff like .454 Casull. .460 S&W, .500 S&W, etc, all have very high case pressures relative to 9mm, .45 AARP, etc.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Too bad they're all meme big bore revolver rounds

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        pressure drops when bore size increases lel. come on, guy. at least pretend like you know about something other than velocity

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Recoil = momentum impulse especially the maximum force felt.
      Kinetic energy and total momentum can differ from perceived recoil.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >pistol calibers are too anemic
    Then get a different gun? .50 AE, .500, .460, 44mag exist.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If you had 9mm loaded up to 60 000 psi you could have a 9mm handgun in the 9mm form factor with 9mm cartridges and 9mm capacity that would be firing shots much stronger than .357 Magnum.
      Do you realize what I'm getting at here?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >.357 power in 9mm form factor
        J frame .357s are not new, anon.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >2024
          >revolvers

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >what are safety margins
    Bubba pls

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Are there even powders that will let you hit a burn rate high enough to increase peak pressure enough to see any ballistic improvement from a pistol barrel? I've never loaded any pistol loads, but surely at that barrel length you're starting to brush against needing HE?

    Godly captcha for thread.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The G11 used HE. It's proven possible to replace or upgrade double base nitrocelluose.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        G11 was caseless, so didn't need to deal with case binding, and still needed an excessively complex, heavy and expensive action to deal with the potential for local peak ovepressure, which is why it was a technical and procurement failure. The G11 is 1. Not an example to emulate for a rifle and 2. Not applicable to a conversation about pistols.

        120mm APFSDS already does 560 MPa.
        With modern existing technology we could truly already have 5.7 pistols with 5.56 SBR energy.

        *660MPA...
        **With a vertical sliding breech block that allows a blistering rate of fire of 10 RPM and for both reasons is completely irrelevant to a conversation about pistols.

        Who else is going to waste everyone's time by posting a moronic example of a high pressure system that would be an unworkably shit idea in a pistol?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Now I think about it a triple barrel sliding breech hyperpressure hypervelocity thunderzap pistol would be based. Brass fittings and ivory grips plus a Holosun ofc.

          7000fps 30 grain polymer bullet with steel core to meet FBI pen standards. We can make stopping power more than a myth.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Oh my bad it seems the Koreans are already up to 690 MPa.
          >With a vertical sliding breech block
          The action lockup is not and has never really been a limiting factor in chamber pressure. Rotating bolt designs with interrupted threads are stronger than the sliding block anyhow. Sliding block is actually used for speed more than anything else.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >The action lockup is not and has never really been a limiting factor in chamber pressure.
            It absolutely has been, because to get meaningfully increased chamber pressure from a pistol length barrel in a useful form factor, you need to use HE.
            >Rotating bolt designs with interrupted threads are stronger than the sliding block anyhow. Sliding block is actually used for speed more than anything else.
            Design a semi-automatic pistol with an acceptable rate of fire and useful form factor using either right now. I will wait in the thread for your design.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              If you cut off the barrel of an AR-15 to 6 inches what's the maximum chamber pressure?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You should be asking what the MV of a 6in AR pistol is instead (<2200FPS in the best case: too low to achieve useful fragmentation, hydrostatic or -elastic wounding). This is because the peak chamber pressure from a 6in AR is nearly irrelevant because it's achieved too late to have it impart much useful force on the projectile. For the pressure to be useful you need to achieve it much sooner, which quickly runs you into needing HE. Besides needing impossibly fast burn rates, your system will start to be limited by bore and port pressure, which rise exponentially with barrel length reductions. A 6in AR has about 150MPA pressure at the muzzle, which is already fricking moronic and probably unsafe for the shooter in the long term. A 6 inch barrel is moronicly long for a pistol and even full size service pistols rarely exceed 4.5 inches by much (five seven being 4.8 for example).

                Either post a pistol design for me to pull apart or frick off.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Peak chamber pressure is achieved at around 1-2 inch projectile travel.
                Are you perhaps stupid?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I think maybe he was mistaken in his belief that pressure needs to rise faster instead of the correct assessment that the expanding gasses need more time to perform work accelerating the bullet.
                More time requires a longer barrel.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That's 25-50% of the barrel length of a pistol.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >G11 used HE
        No, HITP was derived from a type of HE but it was not HE anymore once it was denatured.

        G11 was caseless, so didn't need to deal with case binding, and still needed an excessively complex, heavy and expensive action to deal with the potential for local peak ovepressure, which is why it was a technical and procurement failure. The G11 is 1. Not an example to emulate for a rifle and 2. Not applicable to a conversation about pistols.
        [...]
        *660MPA...
        **With a vertical sliding breech block that allows a blistering rate of fire of 10 RPM and for both reasons is completely irrelevant to a conversation about pistols.

        Who else is going to waste everyone's time by posting a moronic example of a high pressure system that would be an unworkably shit idea in a pistol?

        >still needed an excessively complex, heavy and expensive action to deal with the potential for local peak ovepressure

        No, it was a little on the higher side for an intermediate cartridge, but not massively so, and that was not the cause for its complex action (which was predominantly the result of the hyperburst, with "being caseless" as a distant second)

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Let’s pretend OP isn’t a moronic homosexual for a minute and play with this idea.
    .25 ACP sized pistols with 5.7 energy sounds neat.
    .380 hitting like .357 does as well
    So what are the technological hurdles? Do pistols need to be locked with a rotating bolt like the Desert Eagle? Some kind of space age steel alloy for the bolt and barrel?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >space age steel alloy for the bolt and barrel?
      Rifles have been dealing with these pressures for well over 100 years already..

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Rifles also weigh much more than pistols do. So I guess I should’ve framed the question as “how do we make pistols capable of withstanding these pressures while keeping the form factor of a pistol?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's not a big deal, the forces are not that high.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Pretty much, more power means more better things to counteract that power like lugs and springs so you don't play catch a slide with your forehead.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >So what are the technological hurdles?
      The standard tilting-barrel lockup wouldn't work because too much of the case head is unsupported. A deagle type system would work though it's not the only one.
      The ammo would be expensive because with powder that "hot" it would take extreme quality control to make sure an overpressure round doesn't blow up the gun. There's also the issue of controlability. A .25 ACP sized pistol shooting anything more powerful than .25 ACP is pretty damn nasty when it comes to recoil. .357 in an airweight revolver is downright unpleasant to shoot, and I say that as a big-bore revolver junkie. Asking for a lot of power in a small, light, gun is just asking to make it uncontrollable. You'd also have insane muzzle blast.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >The standard tilting-barrel lockup wouldn't work because too much of the case head is unsupported.
        This is not true, the case head is supported the exact same way.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >supported the exact same way.
          A rotating bolt head like the Deagle has, or an AR for that matter, encloses the case head all around. Browning type tilting barrel designs have a small amount unsupported near the feed ramp, as well as the whole rim and extractor groove.

          Picrel shows a bunch of pistol barrels with cartridges in them. When these are in battery the only additional support is the flat breechface supporting the end of the cartridge. The perimiter of the rim, groove, and small spot where the feed ramp is located have no support. Meanwhile if you look at the bolt head from a Deagle it has a counterbored recess that the rim fits into.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The feed ramp being an unsupported area is literally just a design choice.
            Otherwise the case head is supported the exact same way in pistols and rifles. Case walls are supported by chamber walls and case head is supported by the abutment, ie. the bolt. The rim gets not support either way, which is why siggers went with a steel rim.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >The rim gets not support either way
              No.
              The rim is unsupported in the pistols I just posted a picture of, but with a Desert Eagle the rim fits down in a recess in the bolt head.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That's a clearance fit it does not support the rim. It's purpose is to help during ejection so that the case doesn't fall off the extractor and to direct gases forwards in case of a case rupture.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    did not find any other related thread
    friend gave me bunch of old 5.7mm bullets, told me to turn them in .38/.357 sabots, before this gave me some red hilti nail blanks and made some "explosive" ammo, they did blow nice hole in blank, did not penetrate two blanks tho

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You don't even need to beef up the pistol unless you're shooting 45 acp loaded that hot. 356 TSW is basically just 9mm luger at 50ksi and all it needs is a recoil spring. 9x23 Winchester is even higher pressure and doesn't require anything special. Handloaders push 10mm and 45 acp past 40ksi, sometimes 50ksi, and stock pistols can take those loads safely but with excessive slide velocity which is easily controlled with a brake. Modern pistols are a lot stronger than people realize; it's not the early 20th century anymore where shooting enough 20ksi loads will put your revolver out of service.
    Unfortunately "shootability" has been the predominant driving force behind handgun bullets designed for people so the best bullets of today are optimized for velocities that 75 pound Chinese womyn can handle and loading them hotter makes them perform worse. The bullets that can handle the additional velocity are usually older designs that don't expand good and you get more penetration than you can use on a human. For "woods" loads these can be ideal but that's not what most people are looking for.
    .45 acp is in a weird spot because it's easy to load it hot enough that any bullet designed for 45 acp or 45 Colt will frag with lackluster penetration but it doesn't have enough power to get 454/460 bullets to expand reliably.
    It's still fun as hell shooting 230gr bullets faster than 115gr 9mm

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      All you need is small fast bullets that frag upon entering flesh. Make them small, .30 cal, and give them very high velocity and high pressure and you've got a round that will explode an assailants bicep with every single shot of which you have 20 in a normal size handgun magazine.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        this is the way.
        it is implied by

        https://i.imgur.com/JKJ7yH6.jpg

        Read Black person read, this was taught to you in high school

        for a given amount of recoil, whatever you consider to be the max acceptable, you can gain kinetic energy on the bullet by making it lighter and faster
        eg if you double the speed but halve the mass, you have the same recoil, but twice as much kinetic energy
        oh, and also you get more capacity, all else being equal, since smaller bullets.

        ideally, we'd extend this process to the point where handgun bullets have the same remote wounding effects that rifles do, which afaik are all about the velocity of the bullet, not its mass.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          All you need is small fast bullets that frag upon entering flesh. Make them small, .30 cal, and give them very high velocity and high pressure and you've got a round that will explode an assailants bicep with every single shot of which you have 20 in a normal size handgun magazine.

          One of the problems with small bore handgun cartridges is that they're inherently less efficient than larger bores. A 45 caliber bore has more than twice the volume per inch of barrel compared to a 30 caliber bore which means you'll get a lot more energy. A good comparison is a 185gr 45 bullet at 1575fps and a 40gr 5.7 bullet at 1700fps. The 45 load has more sectional density with less pressure and is still close in velocity with a bullet that weighs more than 4.5x as much with the same barrel length. The external and terminal ballistic benefits for small calibers are usually not there or are greatly exaggerated. If you can't handle the recoil you should practice more

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >185gr 45 bullet at 1575fps
            Sir, this is a weapons board. Post your fantasies on PrepHole or somewhere else.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              That's a load underwood makes and it's pretty tame compared to the 200gr loads going faster than that

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          it’s velocity but also the front surface area of the bullet, meaning its ability to transmit that energy to a hydrostatic force. The problem with really light bullets is that they don’t cavitate for long, or they will tumble really badly or deflect and make what is already an unreliable process even more unreliable. the problem is that this temporary coma effect doesn’t mean that enough damage has been done to cause death by blood loss and only really serves as a benefit to limit tracking from shots that have otherwise been effective enough to kill within a couple of seconds. if you’re just trying to incapacitate people it might be a decent option
          https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Effective+Game+Killing.html

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Brass casing pressed against the inside of a chamber can withstand a higher pressure.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because, pressure is force divided by area.
    Therefore , force equals pressure times area.
    And that specific equation is called bolt thrust.
    Higher pressure with identical area means higher bolt thrust, means more wear and increased risk of failure.
    To remedy this , you will have to use heavier bolt, which means heavier pistol, which is disadvantage for an firearm.
    The reason small calibers like 5.7x28 or .30 super carry can take higher pressures it is because they are smaller, including rim diameter.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >which is a disadvantage for handgun

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    factor in realistic longevity of barrels with super high pressures.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      that was beutal

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    because the primers can’t take that much pressure

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >chuds dont realize 22. and 9mm are the most effective and deadly

    inb4: not just cuz there cheap and Blackns can afford it

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Muh huge muzzle blast
    >Muh huge recoil
    Ok sure, but what if I want to make a "pistol" caliber carbine? Like, make the hot load .50 AE but instead of shooting it from a deagle shoot it from something with the form factor of a M1 Carbine

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah man, something like 5.7 for a light bullet at high velocity but you could take advantage of the carbine form factor and use a longer case and a magazine that doesn't have to fit in the grip. With a longer barrel and large case you could use slower burning powder and achieve something like ~3000fps with a 50-60gr projectile.
      Maybe make it easy to do modular caliber changes so you could also do a heavy 9mm bullet at ~2200fps or even a 325gr .50 at 1800fps with the same action.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        that's moronic, it would never catch on. who would want to drive a 9mm bullet to between 2000 and 2600fps depending on the weight?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          When I first heard about .350 Legend I thought it was moronic Ohio hunting regulation bullshit but then 'autoloading .357 Max' clicked in my head and now I really want one.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I really like mine. I just got a Raptor 10 for it and am gonna go shoot it tomorrow. It has absolutely awesome terminal ballistics and SBR performance, even with the moronic crayon FMJ bullets. it's price has come up lately, though 🙁

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I really like mine. I just got a Raptor 10 for it and am gonna go shoot it tomorrow. It has absolutely awesome terminal ballistics and SBR performance, even with the moronic crayon FMJ bullets. it's price has come up lately, though 🙁

            If it's like 450 bushmaster, cheap fmjs should work great, especially with flat noses. 230gr fmjs launched fast as frick with a 450 bushmaster will mushroom out and still get excellent penetration with perfect weight retention
            Picrel was shot into water which really exaggerates it

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Neva bin dun befo

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I wonder why massive handguns with equally massive recoil don't see any use. If only we had an example.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >massive handguns
      Doesn't have to be massive, rifle tier pressures are already achievable with normal pistols, very slight beefing up is required for good longevity.
      >equally massive recoil
      The cool thing isn't that, the cool thing is shooting .380 and having it perform like .357 sig

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      9x19mm firing a 124grain bullet: he sleep
      5.1x18mm Hyperpressure firing a 30grain bullet: think of his poor wrists!

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      They’re only safe queens if your not worthy anon…

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I like .45 super, simple as.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Hybrid ROCKET assISTED bullets.

    Bullets have a chamber full of rocket fuel, simple as. Rocket blast will be minimal because bullet is already flying out barrel as supersonic speed, and maybe rocket fuel has a very short fuse so its like 10ft out before it kicks in for about 50ft of burn time to take it to MACH 3+.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    This is where you end up when you want maximum energy for a given round

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrothermal-chemical_technology

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *