BMP-3 bow machine guns, why?

Whats the point of the two 7.62 mm PKT bow machine guns on the BMP-3?

How the hell do they even aim them, they look like they have limited traverse if any at all!

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    gotta have something for the driver to do

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    cargo cult of 1930s US doctrine

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    They're supposed to suppress ATGM launchers

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Spray & Pray in direction of assault destination.
      In practice we get webmrel, at best.
      Would this be from a BMP-3 or BMP-2, you think?
      *breathes on trigger*
      *all ammo gets vacuumed up*

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Probably a legacy of the Soviet-Afghan War or as said to keep ATGM gunners' heads down

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Taking inspiration from the old american lendlease tanks

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Whats the point of the two 7.62 mm PKT bow machine guns on the BMP-3?
    Because the BMP-3 was originally supposed to be a light tank before it got converted into an IFV. Since the engine was in the back, two of the seats for the infantry needed to be in the front. And if you got two dismounts sitting up there, why not give them hull mounted MGs?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      How do they dismount?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Dismount? Blyad, no, is of exploding on contact with enemy or driving through nuclear wasteland to Atlantic Sea. Will be cut out of hull and awarded medal if be of surviving.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Awkwardly. Like all Soviet IFV's.

        Guys in the back? pop the hatches and climb over the engine. Guys in the front? Each of them has their on hatch above them like the driver. Alternatively? Maybe shimmy past the turret ring to get into the back exit.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          excellent design. nice big rear storage for lots of Manpads, ATGM, ammo, NBC suits, or pop-up mortar station, or extra dudes in a pinch either hatches closed or open, or even sleeping berths, top hatches open but rear hatch closed give still protection from small arms fire but allows fighting from back of unit.

          extra bow MG dismountable of course, but main job is provide lots of covering fire for rest of squad.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >excellent design.
            Imagine trying to dismount this deathtrap with a 100lb ruck, in the fricking dark.
            How many injuries do you guys think BMP-3's design has caused?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              WTF you on about, is very comfy, just put on ruck with help of comrade while legs dangle off nice rear platform, then step onto ground.

              BTW, Russian doctrine is diff and avoids American bad habit of over equip burdening of infantry with "everything including kitchen sink" in rucks.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >BTW, Russian doctrine is diff and avoids American bad habit of over equip burdening of infantry with "everything including kitchen sink" in rucks
                That's because half the ruck was embezzled by supply officers.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            WTF you on about, is very comfy, just put on ruck with help of comrade while legs dangle off nice rear platform, then step onto ground.

            BTW, Russian doctrine is diff and avoids American bad habit of over equip burdening of infantry with "everything including kitchen sink" in rucks.

            tell me this is sarcasm

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I have a friend who unironically thinks the doors on the BMP-3 and side doors on BTRs are better than western style rear ramps

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Awkwardly. Like all Soviet IFV's.
          dying inside a BMD-2 is a claustrophobe's nightmare

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            if anyone has a good picture of the BMD with its hatch open and a view into the passenger compartment, I'd love to see it

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I don't think that's a passenger compartment.
              Afaik the BMD essentially has a pickup truck bed in the back.
              Especially for riders. Since there's no gate.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              🙂

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That track was either new or mint condition, note the paint inside the hatch and hardware condition. Nothing but the best for Vertically Dropped Vatniks.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                What a survivable IFV.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The Israelis turned old Soviet tanks into superheavy APC's. They also dismount over or around the engine/transmission hump, so I guess it's doable.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I think that's the exact reason why those positions aren't often crewed

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        by the magazine exploding

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      How do they dismount?

      Stupid shit like this is why they ride on top.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        ^This. So did M113 riders in Southeast Asia (which early versions did not have the A2 external tanks to prevent brewups unless the engine and transmission eat an AT mine). Being thrown clear beats burning alive.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The lack of AC didn't help either.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Was the 1960s vintage M113s hard to get out of under fire though? Wasn't it still just a big rear door opening up?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            if the vehicle hits a a mine you'd way rather be outside than inside.
            typically, the floor of the vehicle was lined with ammo cans as ad-hoc mine protection.
            Plus, good luck opening the door while under manuever. You want to be able to bail when YOU want, not when the driver thinks is a good time. You as an infantryman have different survival strategy than an APC being directly targeted.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        They ride on top on all types of BMPs. BMP3 is simply extra moronic because of that dismount.
        BMP1 is fricking tiny, you're barely going to fit inside if you're a big guy and have all your gear, not even talking about dismounting.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >BMP1 is fricking tiny, you're barely going to fit inside if you're a big guy and have all your gear, not even talking about dismounting.

          Fricking this, Im 5'6", had no equipment on me and the BMP-1 felt cramped as all hell.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      should have portholes too

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Pentagon Wars is a better description of Russian/Soviet R&D.

      How do they dismount?

      In pieces
      Look up how soldiers were supposed to dismount from the BTR-60 and ask yourself if you would want to fight from one of these in a high intensity combat scenario.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    (peak) soviet doctrine was all about frontal assaults and suppressing the enemy while advanding, they had tanks firing on the mode, followed by IFVs and APCs just firing on the enemy. The machine guns were for increasing the volume of fire, barely usable and they had a small monocle (like the WW2 tanks)

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Driver has a joystick IIRC, aimed by tracers (?). They'd have been more useful on the turret but I suppose someone went
    >not enough dakka
    and so more dakka was added.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    because of Soviet/russian doctrine concerning infantry assault with IFV/APC.
    they are optional use but on each side of the driver you have one more crew member manning his own PKT, it's only meant to shoot what is in front of the vehicle while the infantry advance on the sides

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    In case they fail to run over their own forces.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Russian designers are morons

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Hello I’m david bowie

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Hi David

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        (Inventor of Bowie knife and Bowie machinegun)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      When is your next album coming out?

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    They are idiots to even think of that on a light APC/IFV. They have no utility, at least the Chunma's 7.62x54 saves them wasting 14.5mm on suppression fire.

    Russian designs post 1990 are a joke, the DPRK does better.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It looks beefier overall, but is that just more hollow interior space? The BTR's look chonky and impressive after all, but we know what they really are on the inside.
      Thin tracks make me think it's thin skin.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It is a amphibious light tank hull that can carry 5-6 extra guys, is pretty fast and is pushing the border between amphibious APC/IFV really hard.

        It's fast, small, amphibious in a real way, has better armor than a BMP and is well designed.

        It also is only armed with a twin 14.5mm AA
        turret. Normally a IFV needs a autocannon but two 14.5mms are acceptable and close enough..

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Skeptical of all that, but it will be good to look into this.
          If the war showed Russia is a joke when it looked serious, then maybe North Korea is a bit serious despite looking like a joke.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It looks really cool and probably functions as advertised more or less. It isn't a APC or IFV, i honestly don't know how to classify it.

            I just like them.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              aren't those the same ones that can mount MLRS while still having dismounts? Kinda a neat idea, if a bit weird.

              I have a friend who unironically thinks the doors on the BMP-3 and side doors on BTRs are better than western style rear ramps

              I think the doors on the BMP-3 probably aren't as much of a problem as you'd expect. IIRC Soviets and Russians expected the dismounts to get out a ways from the destination then follow the BMP on foot.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I think the doors on the BMP-3 probably aren't as much of a problem as you'd expect
                They are. Proof: Wars in Chechenya, Georgia and Ukraine.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I think the doors on the BMP-3 probably aren't as much of a problem as you'd expect
                considering that time to dismount seem to be extremely important in Ukraine, no, it's huge fricking problem

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Can you provide some sauce for that? I haven't really seen anything to indicate that is a major factor.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Because vehicles are constantly getting smacked before the column seems to predict it. So the moment you realize "it's time to dismount," you're already in a smoke-filled oven, assuming you're inboard.

                Pentagon Wars is a better description of Russian/Soviet R&D.
                [...]
                In pieces
                Look up how soldiers were supposed to dismount from the BTR-60 and ask yourself if you would want to fight from one of these in a high intensity combat scenario.

                They ride on top on all types of BMPs. BMP3 is simply extra moronic because of that dismount.
                BMP1 is fricking tiny, you're barely going to fit inside if you're a big guy and have all your gear, not even talking about dismounting.

                >BMP1 is fricking tiny, you're barely going to fit inside if you're a big guy and have all your gear, not even talking about dismounting.

                Fricking this, Im 5'6", had no equipment on me and the BMP-1 felt cramped as all hell.

                For demonstration purposes, I spliced down a video into a montage.
                Truly, the BTR-60 is perhaps the GOLD STANDARD of Soviet Ergonometrics.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                And see this outstanding cutaway, for the level of protection you would enjoy within a BTR-60, as you perform your lighting-quick ninja dismount maneuver.

                This is the BODYEVAYA PEXOTY lineage we're working with, people.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Jesus christ, advancing slowly over an open field to unload and cover your troops in a lightly armored APC is a dream scenario for anyone defending anything.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The field manuals of a bmd-3 states that the proper way to mount up is by throwing an axe at the door switch while backflipping into the hatch

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                In defense of the soviets, they did realize how bad of a design that hatch was and improved it with the BTR-70. Unforthcoming they made over 20 thousand of them, even into the mid-70s when the BTR-70 was already in full scale production and adoption but I think the later years were mostly meant for export, much like the T-55.
                God forbid you have to do a backwards summersault out a moving tin can with full battle rattle and NBC gear in a WWIII scenario.
                Explains the old ARMA vehicle exit animatons at least.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Getting out of M113:
                >leave

                >Getting out of BTR:
                >literal gymnastics

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/4YP4Fov.png

      It looks really cool and probably functions as advertised more or less. It isn't a APC or IFV, i honestly don't know how to classify it.

      I just like them.

      in all honesty, Best Korea adding a twin 14,5mm AA turret to an APC sounds like an anti-air adaptation against drones, in addition to the previous APC's single 14,5mm gun that could only do APC's back-up self-defense fire

      It is a amphibious light tank hull that can carry 5-6 extra guys, is pretty fast and is pushing the border between amphibious APC/IFV really hard.

      It's fast, small, amphibious in a real way, has better armor than a BMP and is well designed.

      It also is only armed with a twin 14.5mm AA
      turret. Normally a IFV needs a autocannon but two 14.5mms are acceptable and close enough..

      so i wont call it an IFV anytime soon before they add a more respectable gun on it
      >14,5mm incendiary bullet weighing 60g total
      >30mm HE-I bullet with 50g of A-IX-2 filling

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >drone defense
        It's manually aimed and has zero aides to detect or track drones, they stuck it on there because ta good enough and they have access it to it. Anything more than that is cope.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I see that the orcs have returned to tradition.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What is this? Some weird t54 prototype?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Apparently that semi-polished turd is the T-54-1 obrez 1947
        The ##-1, it seems, means it was evaluation prototype 1.
        Weird. Chaotic development.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    did they do it to the bmp-t too?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      those are grenade launchers. not much better but theoretically you could use it as a bad-breath-range artillery piece.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's an "urban fighting" light tank in theory, after all.
        But lately everyone has been hyping prototype fighting vehicles with both direct fire main weapons and a separate secondary "mortar." A 60mm or 80mm mortar with a few rounds sounds more useful than the AGS-17 sported by the BMP-T so I think this is yet another case of smekalka disappointment.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >It's an "urban fighting" light tank in theory, after all.
          Funny thing is BMPT creators call it "sniper rifle".

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I imagine the addition of an AGL to the BMP-T was to add some on-the-fly indirect fire capability, and you'd need at least one or two extra crew members to handle the mortar on such a vehicle. Obviously an AGS-17 isn't as good as a mortar for indirect fire but you can lob those VOG-17s quite a large distance away

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >BMP-3
    will go extinct soon anyway, it's golf carts and motorcycles now and trucks with cages to prevent meat from fleeing

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    is it like a coaxial for the driver only? maybe the neutral steering is good enough you could use it

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >How the hell do they even aim them,
    They are aimed by dismounts who sit on each side of the driver. These MGs have -5/+15 elevation angles, and 35 degrees horizontal traverse. They have very cool optical sights with fibre optic, like endoscope, thar deliver image from the MG mount to the bow gunners stations.

    MGs can be locked in forward position, then driver can shoot them with his trigger (after dismounts leave vehicle), obviously not super effective, justake noise and scare ability

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    crowd control

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Honestly I think in modern times with deceased workload on the driver it really makes sense to have him get a machinegun of his own. Ideally I think it would be some form of RCWS but there's just a lot of times when if a vehicle is stationary the driver sits there with his dick in hands and he can't even really look around all that well.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Something like a DITV (Driver's Independent Thermal Viewer) would be good, but bean counters would never sign off.
      It needs to allow clearance for the turret and it also needs to be robust to survive crashing head-first into environmental debris. So any such facility, including a RWS, is gonna need roots spread into the structure. This takes a bite out of weight and budget for the stuff with a better chance of paying off in battle.
      People say Loaders could be drone operators but I think Drivers would be an even better candidate. Insist the Driver's drone is fairly piddly so, if you get smacked and need to move ASAP, it's no loss to drop the controls and dump the drone.

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >How the hell do they even aim them,
    They usually unscrew them and pass to infantry or use as spare mg for bmp/tanks in case of malfunction

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