Black Powder Long Range Shooting

Anybody else interested in black powder long range shooting? The absolute precision required in the loading and firing procedure is just so appealing to me. I'm hoping to get my Pedersoli Gibbs rifle soon and do some 300+ yard shooting.

  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    So what's the deal for long range? Gotta use bullets instead of balls?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, conicals are pretty much required for long range. Most people like paper patched bullets that match the exact bore diameter.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Typically hollow base are used with BP as these will bump up when used with BP and engage rifling.

      Yeah, conicals are pretty much required for long range. Most people like paper patched bullets that match the exact bore diameter.

      >Most people like paper patched bullets that match the exact bore diameter.
      A few thousands of an inch under, typically paper for patch is 'onion skin' and about 0.002 inch thick so you are going to have .008 in paper when you have patched it. So for example if your bore is .451 you might cast a .442 bullet and patch it up to .450. Patching is a bit of an art. It is actually the origin of modern jacketed bullets. After paper the next material used for patching was copper sheet and thin brass sheet. Paper cannot be any old paper either and paper for patching is expensive and sought after.

      https://i.imgur.com/AxyERgu.jpg

      Anybody else interested in black powder long range shooting? The absolute precision required in the loading and firing procedure is just so appealing to me. I'm hoping to get my Pedersoli Gibbs rifle soon and do some 300+ yard shooting.

      >do some 300+ yard shooting.
      I can hit 24x24 every time over a string of ten shots with my rifle which was made in the 1860s at 800M.

      https://i.imgur.com/tn5SdbY.jpg

      I was but haven't shot this thing in years. Maybe this winter...

      Nice rolling block but not a muzzleloader,

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        What style of muzzleloader? Schutzen? Gibbs? I'm interested.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          I have four a Turner, a Kerr a whitworth and a custom from a Scottish gunsmith called Henry. I mainly shoot the turner as it is the least expensive and while the barrel was very good on it, the stock broken and was missing the buttstock and I had to replace it, it is not so much of a sin. I am big into precision rifles and see the Crimea and the US civil war as the beginning of the modern sniping tradition so have all the major rifles of the era. One tip for you, get a platinum lined nipple from buffalo arms. You will need it the big charges on a precision muzzleloader will eat up regular nipples and destroy your consistency, you will also need a brass drop tube for powder and a funnel

          >over a string of ten shots with my rifle

          How do you manage fouling? Fouling has never really been an issue with my muzzleloaders, but if I want to shoot long distance shooting I'm sure there's a different procedure. What do you do? Swab? I've seen videos of people swabbing after the powder and ball have been seated but I'm not too keen on the subject.

          >How do you manage fouling?
          I run one spit patch in between reloads. Paper patches actually take a lot of fouling out with them, too much fouling is a big sign something is wrong, too much powder, problem with nipple chamber or cap

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >tldr
          mid 19th century English sidelocks
          http://www.researchpress.co.uk/index.php/marksmanship/lrml

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >over a string of ten shots with my rifle

        How do you manage fouling? Fouling has never really been an issue with my muzzleloaders, but if I want to shoot long distance shooting I'm sure there's a different procedure. What do you do? Swab? I've seen videos of people swabbing after the powder and ball have been seated but I'm not too keen on the subject.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          I will give you another good tip for free, I use a martini ramrod tip in brass to reload because it has a head that is cupped and spins freely. This allows the patched bullet to ride the rifling down smoothly. IMA sells them. Remember to get the thread and pitch for your platinum nipple right

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Thanks for the resources. I'm hoping I'll get my Gibbs soon and I'll try to post some of my first precision shooting groups.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              http://www.researchpress.co.uk/index.php/marksmanship/lrml/pedersoli-gibbs

              I am very solitary but I tend to find that the people involved in long range muzzleoading especially original match rifles are some of the most expert shots and have already mastered fclass, biathlon, 3p,sbbr,br etc. I wish you the vesry bets of luck. Remember, not all paper will do you need onionskin, you need the correct weight bullet and for supreme accuracy may need swaged. Never use BP substitutes just real BP and preferably nearer 2F -1.5F. It is an incredibly rewarding hobby. Enjoy

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    A fellow I know has been shooting and casting for 60+ years. Due to his work, he got his blood drawn and in his bloodwork it showed a regular amount of lead in his blood. Just make sure you wash your hands and don't eat with your fingers right after shooting.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      You know you can have excessive exposure and then It can go back down before you get blood work done right? Granted inhaling it is the worst but still it doesn’t take much to cause damage

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        I know where your concern lies. If you're really that worried I've heard that bismuth is a decent substitute. I've never worked with it so I don't have any input on the subject.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        see pubmed/google scholar for papers on lead exposure from firearms usage. the main avenue is from inhalation.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Thats why my HD bullets are lead styphenate free primers.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        in case anyone is curious, the reason it goes down after recent exposure is because it has been incorporated into the organs and bones.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          see pubmed/google scholar for papers on lead exposure from firearms usage. the main avenue is from inhalation.

          Honestly, I think you are a very disingenuous and deceitful person. This studies are referring to ventilation in indoor ranges.

          You know you can have excessive exposure and then It can go back down before you get blood work done right? Granted inhaling it is the worst but still it doesn’t take much to cause damage

          [...]

          Tell me how you absorb lead from 530 grain lumps. You see you don't and no one ever has from sheet lead either. You have come here to spray piss everywhere and I've see you drop this fake 'fear lead' and 'fear hearing damage' shit before. Shooting muzzleloaders is a wonderful hobby. Perfectly safe and you need to go to a psychiatrist and talk to them about whatever brain damage causes you to post this nonsense here repeatedly. You know you are lying as well I would say.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >Honestly, I think you are a very disingenuous and deceitful person. This studies are referring to ventilation in indoor ranges.

            Lead exposure in outdoor firearm instructors.
            This study was conducted to determine lead exposure of firearm instructors at an outdoor firing range, while cadets were firing nonjacketed and jacketed lead ammunitions. The breathing zone air for lead exceeded the OSHA standard of 50 micrograms/m3 for two instructors during firing exercises using nonjacketed bullets.
            ...
            The major route of absorption for lead in firing ranges is through inhalation of lead dust and
            fumes.
            https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.81.6.753

            Elevated Blood Lead Levels Related to the Use of Firearms
            Although indoor firing ranges have been the primary concern, elevated blood lead levels have also been reported from the use of outdoor ranges, as likely occurred with case 4.
            https://journals.lww.com/joem/Fulltext/2015/10000/Elevated_Blood_Lead_Levels_Related_to_the_Use_of.21.aspx

            Lead Exposure in Military Outdoor Firing Ranges
            Conclusions: Military personnel participating in automatic weapon marksmanship training can be exposed to considerable levels of airborne lead during outdoor firing range training.
            https://academic.oup.com/milmed/article/181/9/1121/4159842?login=false

            Lead exposure at firing ranges—a review
            ...the amount of absorption of ingested lead by adults under non-fasting conditions ranges from 3 to 10% and in young children from 40 to 50% whereas inhaled lead lodging deep in the respiratory tract seems to be absorbed equally and totally, regardless of chemical form. As shooting involves generation of extremely fine particles and gases, the high rate of absorption logically results in elevated BLLs. Outdoor ranges, presumably well-ventilated by natural flow and large air volumes, do not necessarily prevent lead exposure from shooting activities.
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5379568/

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              You are full of shit, either that or you are actually clinically retarded. None of these things apply in any way specifically to muzzleloaders and relate to firing ranges and their ventilation. Please stop posting. There is no risk whatsoever from shooting muzzleloaders. That is the truth and if you state otherwise you are just illustrating as we both know that you are a liar. Trying to cite irrelevant sources won't help you.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Not to beat a dead horse, but why do you care so much? I don't see a large issue with just handling the lead, like I said just wash your hands and be careful! Even when it comes to casting and being in contact with lead fumes, I am careful and I am fine.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            oh and there are plenty more studies on lead exposure from firing firearms at indoor and outdoor ranges. why are you so defensive about it?

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              I think you are a vapid and worthless person. It is one thing to bait for yous but a whole other level of self debasement to try and drive people away from a hobby as wonderful as muzzleloaders. It could be that you are unaware of the fact that you are deliberately promulgating falsehood and are just a simpleton but I doubt it. Solid lead incurs no risk of poisoning whatsoever. Why do you come to this board to post this nonsense and the hearing damage garbage? Even if you 'hate guns' muzzleloaders are hardly a deserving target for your unfathomable lies and repugnant and deliberate misinformation. I'm quite familiar with lead exposure and in fact many more kinds of enviromental risk as I worked for the EPA, a Europ4ean agency dealing with it for several years and I know the 'case' you are trying to make is so utterly divorced from reality that it does not even merit analysis. You are a liar, a bullshitter and have an obsessive compulsive disorder, it is possible you are a narcissistic hypochondriac or some other variety of mental deficient. Either way please get out of this thread. Whatever it is you had to say you have said it and you have had your reply. beyond this you are simply off topic, it is not a thread regarding your lead poisoning or hearing damage fantasies but about the hobby of muzzle loading, a wonderful hobby

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                in response to your salad of words, i really don't have an opinion about your wonderful hobby, as it doesn't affect me in any way. i was referring to lead exposure from fumes originally, to which you were quite hostile, so i merely provided the facts as known that contradicted your understanding of the matter. whether or not muzzleloading incurs any differential exposure risks, i don't know, and this was not the avenue you started with.

                last I heard, the EPA as people usually refer to it, has not ventured into Europe.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Fumes. Not lumps of lead. Go away. Further your articles do not even bother to eliminate lead paint as the source. All in all 0/10.

                [...]
                [...]
                [...]
                [...]
                [...]
                [...]
                If you are that afraid of lead exposure, that means you aren't shooting guns. Then why are you here again?

                >If you are that afraid of lead exposure, that means you aren't shooting guns. Then why are you here again?
                Answer this. You are off topic.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      [...]

      Eat garlic and onions. They remove lead from the body.

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I was but haven't shot this thing in years. Maybe this winter...

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Beautiful!

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    bump

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The problem you'll find with muzzle loaders is that unjacketed bullets create alot of fouling of the barrel. Especially if it is rifled, which is optimal for accuracy.So you have to use paper patched conical bullets. That's why smoothbore was still optimal for infantry even long after the advent of rifling techniques. It is much harder to stuff a bullet down a rifled barrel. If you try and stuff your paper patched bullet down a muzzle loader you may damage the paper patch on the way down and ruin accuracy and increase fouling. Black powder breach loaders do fine at those types of ranges. Muzzle loaders will be quite a bit more difficult.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >It is much harder to stuff a bullet down a rifled barrel. If you try and stuff your paper patched bullet down a muzzle loader you may damage the paper patch on the way down and ruin accuracy and increase fouling.
      This is just a random stream of words. I shoot paper patched bullets from an English match 451. I don't think you have ever even seen one fired let a lone done it yourself. You can go and look at capandballs YouTube channel if you would like to learns more. Please stop bullshitting though. Why on earth are you posting this crap?

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Always good to see one of the agoraphobic type autists loose and running. Needed one for my collection.

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I HATE THE AI ARTWORK
    I HATE THE AI ARTWORK

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Noguns sour graping about lead
    Fucking lmao.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Its the same idiot that spams the threads about tinnitus.

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    You know you can have excessive exposure and then It can go back down before you get blood work done right? Granted inhaling it is the worst but still it doesn’t take much to cause damage

    see pubmed/google scholar for papers on lead exposure from firearms usage. the main avenue is from inhalation.

    in case anyone is curious, the reason it goes down after recent exposure is because it has been incorporated into the organs and bones.

    https://i.imgur.com/e7rB1QI.png

    >Honestly, I think you are a very disingenuous and deceitful person. This studies are referring to ventilation in indoor ranges.

    Lead exposure in outdoor firearm instructors.
    This study was conducted to determine lead exposure of firearm instructors at an outdoor firing range, while cadets were firing nonjacketed and jacketed lead ammunitions. The breathing zone air for lead exceeded the OSHA standard of 50 micrograms/m3 for two instructors during firing exercises using nonjacketed bullets.
    ...
    The major route of absorption for lead in firing ranges is through inhalation of lead dust and
    fumes.
    https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.81.6.753

    Elevated Blood Lead Levels Related to the Use of Firearms
    Although indoor firing ranges have been the primary concern, elevated blood lead levels have also been reported from the use of outdoor ranges, as likely occurred with case 4.
    https://journals.lww.com/joem/Fulltext/2015/10000/Elevated_Blood_Lead_Levels_Related_to_the_Use_of.21.aspx

    Lead Exposure in Military Outdoor Firing Ranges
    Conclusions: Military personnel participating in automatic weapon marksmanship training can be exposed to considerable levels of airborne lead during outdoor firing range training.
    https://academic.oup.com/milmed/article/181/9/1121/4159842?login=false

    Lead exposure at firing ranges—a review
    ...the amount of absorption of ingested lead by adults under non-fasting conditions ranges from 3 to 10% and in young children from 40 to 50% whereas inhaled lead lodging deep in the respiratory tract seems to be absorbed equally and totally, regardless of chemical form. As shooting involves generation of extremely fine particles and gases, the high rate of absorption logically results in elevated BLLs. Outdoor ranges, presumably well-ventilated by natural flow and large air volumes, do not necessarily prevent lead exposure from shooting activities.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5379568/

    oh and there are plenty more studies on lead exposure from firing firearms at indoor and outdoor ranges. why are you so defensive about it?

    If you are that afraid of lead exposure, that means you aren't shooting guns. Then why are you here again?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >that means you aren't shooting guns. Then why are you here again?
      He's probably one of those "crest collectors" on /msg/, they only buy guns for display over there anyways

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Almost every modern primer you use puffs lead oxide dust in the air when you shoot. Also if your bullets are open base design, like most FMJ, the lead vaporizes from the back in tiny amounts.

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I know a guy who is very into black powder shooting, especially muzzle loader rifle from 100 to 300 meters.

    if you like the smell of sulphur and constantly tweaking your loading technique, spending a lot more time loading and cleaning than shooting, it's for you. it's not for me.

  12. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >lead autismo lying again
    i hate this gay tbh
    >um actually if youre a professional firearms instructor and spend all day every day in a cloud of gunpowder you might have slightly elevated lead levels that never rise to the symptomatic!!!
    stupid fucking gay

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Black Powder Long Range Shooting
    seems kinda needlessly pedantic and pointless over getting a ruger no1, rollingblock/farquarson or reproduction sharps and doing long range 45-70 and 50-110 winchester

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Wait until boomers will casually mention their duplex and triplex loads. Reloading long range ammunition is even more pedantic than most autistic measuring and weighting loads for muzzleloaders.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      It's about the process and history of these guns, if I cared about convenience I would have never picked up a muzzleloader.

  14. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Just bought a 5.5" New Model Army off some guy online. He'll ship it next week. My first Remington! When it arrives, I'm selling my 5.5" 1851 brass to a friend of mine.
    I think of getting something for longer ranges, seen offers for Hawken .46, Dikar Mountain .45 and Zouave .58. The first two seem more suited for my needs, but Zouave was used to hunt elephants back in the day, so I'm on a fence here. Help me out here, fellow muzzlefrens?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous
    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous
    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous
    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >think of getting something for longer ranges, seen offers for Hawken .46, Dikar Mountain .45 and Zouave .58.
      Do you mean Hawken 45 not 46? Also can you tell me who made these guns you are thinking off? Now I'll be straight with you, I don't shoot modern reproductions and I'll admit I'm strange that way but from what I know the pedersoli Gibbs OP is talking about is a world class competitor whereas these guns you are talking about I'm not so sure of. I don't know are you are talking about with the Zouave being used to hunt elephants its a nickname for a model of rifle known for its use in the US civil war and I can't imagine the reproductions have barrels on them much different from any other 58 reproduction though I may be wrong. That's the thing you see the reproduction should be you'd think better made than the originals but they are not the 45 e.g. Enfield 53 etc rarely carry the features the originals had like progressive depth rifling (although I think parker made have made one decades ago that did). So anyway anon who made these guns you are thinking of buying? Pedersoli is a good make, I posted a few videos of Idaho Lewis because that man knows how to shoot a bit and what he uses may be accessible to you. I don't personally class 58 (for me 577 ) in the same category as 451 match rifles such as OPs gibbs and these kerrs and turners and whitworths and whatnot. Now I love them I hold an original RT Pritchett made Enfield 53 (if you know who that is you'll know it is an important gun). I have a belgian crimea contract 2 band as well and many other fine examples but they are a different weapon to the match rifles which are for long range accuracy and if you want to compete in that you are going to be in the 451/450 range of bullet or at the outside the 50. You are not going to be doing an onion skin patched 576 or 586 or whatever minie bullet or Pritchett bullet or burton bullet. Different weapon class to sidelock match rifles. Different bullets.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      For the first long arm I would pick basic bitch Hawken in popular 45 calibre. Investarm makes comparatively inexpensive and good enough rifles like that. Contrary to expectation, accurate shooting with military Minie rifles like Zouave at ranges longer than 100m requires more preparations and practice, despite the guns being seemingly simple and easy to load. You need to cast your minies, sort them by wieght, then calibrate them carefully, devise the best grease that will prevent excessive fouling. And if you just want to shoot from standing position under 100m, then Hawken that uses patched roundballs or simple REALs will present you with much less hassle and disappointments. Not to mention Hawkens usually have netter sights, comfier stocks, set triggers and are easier to clean and maintain. t. owner of the repros of Mississippi Rifle, old Uberti Hawken and a Pedersoli smoothbore flintlock musket.

  15. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    didn't have room to try shooting long range today, more trying to see where they're hitting before muzzleloader season opens here. both cheap .50 traditions hawkens. blues one is hitting a foot left at 50 yds somehow

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