Black Hawk Down

What went so wrong ?

250 Piece Survival Gear First Aid Kit

LifeStraw Water Filter for Hiking and Preparedness

250 Piece Survival Gear First Aid Kit

  1. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    It went down

  2. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    specially adapted RPG-7s with backblast deflectors allowing them to fire at high angles without toasting the user
    and just good timing, since they usually cant pull off such a thing due to escorts suppressing any possible AA fire

    of course, losing just 2 helos being a disaster of unprecedented scale says a lot about how slow the news day was, since russians losing 2 helos in the afghan war would have just been another tuesday

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      So Delta Force is basically just American VDV?

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        the difference is that delta force losing 2 helos in a single day was the worst thing to ever happen to them
        a total of 18 troops were killed during the incident whereas the lowest estimate for the opfor was 100 killed

        whereas the VDV would consider losing 100 menfor 10 of the enemy a decent exchange
        a black hawk done scenario would occur so regularly it wouldnt be worth talking about

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >a total of 18 troops were killed during the incident whereas the lowest estimate for the opfor was 100 killed

          18 highly trained operators vs 100+ armed civilians is a very bad trade. Not to mention the hardware that was lost.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >So Delta Force is basically just American VDV?
        lol no Delta Force are actual special forces VDV are airborne infantry.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Delta loses six guys in single battle
        >VDV loses over 1500 in a single battle
        >These are the same

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, 6 Americans are roughly equivalent to about 1500 Russians.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >VDV loses over 1500 in a single battle

          Wait which one was that?

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            All of them

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        The frick is wrong with your brain

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous
      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        VDV=82nd or 101st
        Delta=Spetsnaz

        Anon, you're in charge of this operation now and you're allowed to bring any weapon system from US inventory, what are you bringing? AC-130? MQ-9? Apache? Bradleys?

        m113s and bradleys, an airborne division instead of rangers.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >101st
          Are they the more mechanized airborne unit vs 82nd’s more infantry heavy approach?

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            101st specializes in air assault which sling-loads vehicles. 82d does airborne which airdrops vehicles. They're both relatively light by necessity.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >specially adapted RPG-7s with backblast deflectors allowing them to fire at high angles without toasting the user
      also, specially trained RPG gunners who know how to use the self-destruct mechanism of an RPG to make it into a viable flak shell, and about sixty or seventy RPGs per Black Hawk

      Complacency. The movie doesn't convey it, but that exact raid had happened several times in the previous weeks leading up to the events of the movie, each time turning up basically nothing. People like to shit on the rangers for not taking NODs, but they took them on the several prior raids that were pointless and started to consider the NODs to be dead weight. Thats what happens every time Americans frick up militarily, whereas most countries fail because they're corrupt or poor or moronic, when an American operation goes wrong it invariably can be traced back to somebody getting bored, lazy or too comfortable.

      >Complacency
      Point

      https://i.imgur.com/OoHXlH7.jpg

      The Somalis were being led by arguably the highest-iq Somali to exist, probably ever. He studied the Soviet Afghan war expensively since he went to Military college in the USSR. This gave him to insight into how easily Helicopters, especially at low level can be shot down using RPG/Manpad teams. The other half is that the Americans were rather overconfident and believed they’d face no resistance due to the population backing them, for some reason, or any resistance would be minor and disorganized. Americans were also denied support or given support to late. Pretty much a perfect storm. To summarize…

      >high-IQ Somali warlord with a legit military education who learned from the Soviet experience in Afghanistan
      >well trained but overconfident American force expecting little resistance
      >US/UN command failing to aid US forces properly for fear of collateral damage
      >unfriendly population (not expected by UN)
      >RPG teams with back-blast deflectors
      >dense urban environment
      >helicopters forced to hover low to the ground for extended periods to unload troops

      >led by arguably the highest-iq Somali to exist, probably ever
      This

      He was the most competent of all the warlords, and in the wake of the American withdrawal took over the place. While the other warlords were doing janjaweed things, he had a proper plan for dealing with Americans (see above), a shadow Government, a P.R. man (job title: "Minister of Tourism", job description: handing out personalised Aideed merch), formed actual diplomatic relationships with the Americans, and is credited with introducing the "heavy" or "super" technical to Somalia ie a heavy-duty truck with ZPU-4 quad HMGs in the back

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/OoHXlH7.jpg

        The Somalis were being led by arguably the highest-iq Somali to exist, probably ever. He studied the Soviet Afghan war expensively since he went to Military college in the USSR. This gave him to insight into how easily Helicopters, especially at low level can be shot down using RPG/Manpad teams. The other half is that the Americans were rather overconfident and believed they’d face no resistance due to the population backing them, for some reason, or any resistance would be minor and disorganized. Americans were also denied support or given support to late. Pretty much a perfect storm. To summarize…

        >high-IQ Somali warlord with a legit military education who learned from the Soviet experience in Afghanistan
        >well trained but overconfident American force expecting little resistance
        >US/UN command failing to aid US forces properly for fear of collateral damage
        >unfriendly population (not expected by UN)
        >RPG teams with back-blast deflectors
        >dense urban environment
        >helicopters forced to hover low to the ground for extended periods to unload troops

        Aideed was based, coolest US antagonist of the last 50 years. Guy was essentially a Somali /k/ autist with a encyclopedic knowledge of every asymmetrical conflict of the late 20th century and since he went to War college in the USSR he heard plenty of first hand accounts of the Afghan war.
        Soviet-Afghan and the US-Vietnam war taught transport choppers were actually remarkably easy to shoot down if you could get close enough. Mogadishu just happened to be the perfect spot for this exact strategy.
        The Aideed meta is very simple also to the point that untrained Miltia can pull it off pretty easily. Just draw in the choppers, wait until they’re hovering to drop troops and open up with RPG’s and MG’s than swarm the dismounted troops.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >untrained Miltia can pull it off pretty easily
          No, they can't, and that's why Aideed was better than the other warlords; he specially trained his men and they didn't

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >specially adapted RPG-7s with backblast deflectors allowing them to fire at high angles without toasting the user

      No the somalis just stepped up on a chair or stood on the back of a truck.

      Black hawk down happened because amerimutts were playing at being world cop deep in bluegum territory. They had to exfiltrate trough a killzone with their convoy being shot at from rooftops and from inside of houses as they passed by. The top ring mounted sluggish firing.50 cals on humvees turned them into wheeled suicide booths with one amerimutt after another getting shot when he stood up to man the gun. This experience was memoryholed and the iraq invasion 11 years later featured the very same suicide booth humvees. It took several years before simple, open topped turrets were developed for the humvee.

      The RPG fire was much more intense than in the movie (I've read the looong rolling stone report on this) and the vast bulk of these RPGs missed the helis they were fired at. Those that hit were lucky shots.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      And losing 2 helos in vietnam war would have just been another afternoon. Good and informative post ruined by a last ditch impotent cope

  3. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >attacked during the day
    >no AC130 gunship support
    >didn't wear back plates
    >didn't bring NVGs
    That's what I got from the movie anyway

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Wasn't the AC-130 denied by Washington for some reason?

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >for some reason?
        It was an urban area with high amount of local civilians. That being said they did have attack helos not just armed little birds and blackhawks

  4. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Anon, you're in charge of this operation now and you're allowed to bring any weapon system from US inventory, what are you bringing? AC-130? MQ-9? Apache? Bradleys?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Underestimated the resistance they'd face
      >Minimal CAS
      >QRF got ambushed
      >Bad luck

      AC-130. Apaches would probably more effective in the situation but let's see Somalis try to shoot down a plane with an RPG lmao.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Give me a couple Davy Crocketts

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        We gotta get Mike first then it’s urban renewal

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Read that:

      https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB63/doc10.pdf

      The movie was a nice movie. Enjoy the atmosphere, ignore the details, then read.

      AC-130s remain available not sent away. They were amply precise for the work.

      Abrams and Bradleys aplenty replace stupid wheeled trucks. Trucks and APCs do not belong on that kind of mission except for loggie use at most. There were no MRAP at the time because the US learnt nothing from the Viet Nam gun truck experience or observing Chechnya. Lightfighter hubris is overwhelming.

      Bring arty and mortars for a proper FOB that can reach out 24/7 to provide covering fire. Bring fixed wing aircraft for loitering C4ISR when there are troops on the ground. Helos suck for loitering and are in general soft easy targets.

      No wheeled vehicles off-post. Helicopters used for overwatch out of small arms and RPG range during combat.

      At the very least, they should have had assets covering the actual helidrops. Going full hover over a dense urban environment without fire support was a disaster waiting to happen.

      ^This. Small arms frick up helos. See also Iraq.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >or observing Chechnya
        Point of order the first Russian-Chechen war wouldn't happen until the following year.

  5. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Washington, in all its wisdom, didn't listen to Sam Shepard is what went wrong

  6. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Cowboys being cowboys

  7. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Complacency. The movie doesn't convey it, but that exact raid had happened several times in the previous weeks leading up to the events of the movie, each time turning up basically nothing. People like to shit on the rangers for not taking NODs, but they took them on the several prior raids that were pointless and started to consider the NODs to be dead weight. Thats what happens every time Americans frick up militarily, whereas most countries fail because they're corrupt or poor or moronic, when an American operation goes wrong it invariably can be traced back to somebody getting bored, lazy or too comfortable.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >whereas most countries fail because they're corrupt or poor or moronic, when an American operation goes wrong it invariably can be traced back to somebody getting bored, lazy or too comfortable.

      What a dumbass Vatnik-tier, this is like a kid claiming he lost because “I wasn’t really trying”. Being Lazy and complacent during a military operation is being moronic.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        This is the go to American cope for some reason. It’s like the inverse of the Russian “our enemy is actually giga-powerful so taking 70% casualties is actually better than the 90% we should have taken” shit.
        It’s also just such a ridiculous excuse since it just makes your command and politicians look like lazy, corrupt scum. “Ya they got a bunch of our guys killed and failed to accomplish anything but that’s because they didn’t really want to put in the effort”

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        This is the go to American cope for some reason. It’s like the inverse of the Russian “our enemy is actually giga-powerful so taking 70% casualties is actually better than the 90% we should have taken” shit.
        It’s also just such a ridiculous excuse since it just makes your command and politicians look like lazy, corrupt scum. “Ya they got a bunch of our guys killed and failed to accomplish anything but that’s because they didn’t really want to put in the effort”

        moronic PrepHolegays go home

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          This board is PrepHole 2.0 anymore. Less than 25% of /k/-goers own guns and most of those anons lurk in the general threads.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            >This board is PrepHole 2.0 anymore.
            Just say /misc/

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >if you criticize the US military you’re an PrepHoleposter

          Vatnik-tier response

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            >VATNIK-TIER
            >VATNIK-TIER
            >VATNIK-TIER
            I demand Total Zoomer Death.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            >make moronic comment
            >get called out
            >cry
            You will now derail the thread to damage control

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            Fair criticism is helpful
            Saying the US military is "coping" over 18 casualties is moronic

            Also "Now, I had requested light armor and AC-130 Specter gunships, but Washington, in all its wisdom, decided against this. Too high-profile."

            Light armor would have made a huge difference. As I recall a lot of the casualties came from running around in Humvees. The gunships would have been much safer from enemy fire, provided a longer loitering time, and provided more firepower in their support.

            The whole incident seems a lot like simply bringing the wrong tools for the job.

            Sure, with 20/20 hindsight scopes you can bring the perfect tools for the job. Or in future, show up with everything and the kitchen sink

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              At the very least, they should have had assets covering the actual helidrops. Going full hover over a dense urban environment without fire support was a disaster waiting to happen.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        This is the basic tenet of industrial safety. Complacency leads to carelessness which leads to injury.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        I get you're seething because its kind of a humble brag and one that only Americans can reasonably make, but where exactly is the lie? Factually, the only way Americans can be beaten is if they get lazy or bored. Downed F117? Got too comfortable and didn't change flight course or close bomb doors. Redwings? Got lazy and didn't want to ruck all the way. Whole afghan war? Just got bored of hearing about it, so we gave up. You can call it moronic if you like, but if the only way an enemy can bloody your nose is if you win so hard you get lazy and give them an opening, well that's doing pretty damn good in my books.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >one that only Americans can reasonably make
          It's not just America dude. Pretty much most people that lose did so because they got bored or lazy or complacent.
          Russia is losing in Ukraine because they got lazy and complacent and at every level didn't think they really needed to work to have a decent military, that it was ok for them to skim a little because the whole machine could absorb the skim and still function. And thinking like that eventually hollowed out the entire military Like why does Russia have fat as frick 50 year olds flying combat missions? Because it's expensive to train new pilots, because they didn't think they needed to and they got away with it in Syria so why wouldn't it be the same in Ukraine?

  8. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Beyond the faults in the minutiae of operation and the issues caused by surrounding political factors the underlying cause behind it all was the underestimation of the opposing force, primarily their willingness to fight, and their support amongst the locsl population

  9. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Hawk wasn't white
    It should have gone up
    Simple as...

  10. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    No spectre gunships, daylight instead of night, late afternoon when they were all fricked up on khat, only part of the city where Adid could mount a serious counter attack on short notice, what's not to go wrong?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Also "Now, I had requested light armor and AC-130 Specter gunships, but Washington, in all its wisdom, decided against this. Too high-profile."

      Light armor would have made a huge difference. As I recall a lot of the casualties came from running around in Humvees. The gunships would have been much safer from enemy fire, provided a longer loitering time, and provided more firepower in their support.

      The whole incident seems a lot like simply bringing the wrong tools for the job.

  11. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    some guy forgot to bring his parachute

  12. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    The Somalis were being led by arguably the highest-iq Somali to exist, probably ever. He studied the Soviet Afghan war expensively since he went to Military college in the USSR. This gave him to insight into how easily Helicopters, especially at low level can be shot down using RPG/Manpad teams. The other half is that the Americans were rather overconfident and believed they’d face no resistance due to the population backing them, for some reason, or any resistance would be minor and disorganized. Americans were also denied support or given support to late. Pretty much a perfect storm. To summarize…

    >high-IQ Somali warlord with a legit military education who learned from the Soviet experience in Afghanistan
    >well trained but overconfident American force expecting little resistance
    >US/UN command failing to aid US forces properly for fear of collateral damage
    >unfriendly population (not expected by UN)
    >RPG teams with back-blast deflectors
    >dense urban environment
    >helicopters forced to hover low to the ground for extended periods to unload troops

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >led by arguably the highest-iq Somali to exist
      You're assuming ordinary Somalis are stupid like a West African. They aren't. US planners probably made the same mistake.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Not all of the population was unfriendly. Somalia was and is extremely tribal and some tribes backed Aideed, some backed the UN and some were waiting to see which would win. Aideed himself didn't have 100% backing of his clan to confront the American forces until the US heard about a high level meeting of the clan and sent helicopter gunships to zap the house it was being held in and everyone inside. Trouble was, the meeting was being held by Aideed moderates to try and figure out ways to make peace with the Americans.
      I don't think it's fair to say they didn't have the backing of the population, in total number there were probably more people open to working with the UN/Americans or apathetic than militantly against them. The US just went to the center of that resistance for their raid.

  13. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Well the helicopter was supposed to fly, but it didn't anymore and crashed instead of flying.
    Classic mistake.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Is that unusual?

  14. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >What went so wrong ?
    Black folk

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >this

      Stick with fighting Slavs and Arabs, don’t bring that goofy ass shit here to Africa or we’ll smoke your ass.

  15. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    If you think about it, that propeller blade is than any playground that kid has seen in their village. Where else would they find a perfectly long and flat thing suspended off the ground to walk on or do monkey bars, attached to something with manufactured seats where you can pretend to be a pilot?

  16. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Link infrastructure sucked ass back then. A Navy EP3 had eyes on all the roadblocks and ambush teams etc but had no way to talk directly to the infantry as he was on all Navy comms. Eventually they were able to pass some things on guard in the clear but nothing like streaming the images to the TOC or anything.

    Also Garrison was kind of moronic, and came up with a pretty shitty exfil plan because he was afraid of running the same airmobile playbook every time. But he had no armor so going in and out mostly in 2 tons and humvees was obviously moronic.

    The Marines had wasted all the sympathetic tribal leaders when they decided to optest their TOWs off cobras into their meeting building for some reason so the skinnys were big mad about that.

    I do like in the book the 2 seal teams that are just driving around the city blasting people for no particular reason and not as part of the original raid or recovery attempt, just like they heard their was an opportunity for violence and went on a joyride, didn't talk to the army or anything.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >I do like in the book the 2 seal teams that are just driving around the city blasting people for no particular reason and not as part of the original raid or recovery attempt, just like they heard their was an opportunity for violence and went on a joyride, didn't talk to the army or anything.
      Jesus fricking christ

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >I do like in the book the 2 seal teams that are just driving around the city blasting people for no particular reason and not as part of the original raid or recovery attempt, just like they heard their was an opportunity for violence and went on a joyride, didn't talk to the army or anything.

      A recurring thing in american front memoirs, in generation kill the marines take potshots at iraqi kids running in the fields. In present day we have the americans of civdiv who shoots surrendering russians "because frick that guy".

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Pretty sure wasting armed militia men actively assembling to overrun the army dudes doesn't really match the HBO fanfic or your pschizo surrender ramble but you do you bby

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Blind people like you are the perfect Black person cattle for the elite

  17. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Hans Zimmer

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why people hate him ?

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Wasn't that the guy that shot the Somali kid in Florida like 10 years ago?

  18. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Didn't the Somali's also take advantage of the fact that America tries to never leave a man behind? Most other armies would have simply aborted a rescue operation with the kind of conditions that were in Mogadishu, but America actually tried to keep its soldiers alive (or, alive until they're discharged).

  19. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >The top ring mounted sluggish firing.50 cals on humvees turned them into wheeled suicide booths with one amerimutt after another getting shot when he stood up to man the gun.
    (you)

  20. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    The UN mission was what was wrong. Delta did the usual SOF moronation of doing a bunch of direct action raids that had no value. They kept rolling risk until it fricked them.

    Any infantry moron can do a raid. SOF is about building and training a new and friendly warlord government like our brave allies the mujahideen.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >SOF is about building and training a new and friendly warlord government like our brave allies the mujahideen.
      Isn’t that the green beret’s intended role?

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        What's the difference?

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yes.

        The UN mission was what was wrong. Delta did the usual SOF moronation of doing a bunch of direct action raids that had no value. They kept rolling risk until it fricked them.

        Any infantry moron can do a raid. SOF is about building and training a new and friendly warlord government like our brave allies the mujahideen.

        is moronic, because Delta is explicitly direct action. I can’t say for certain whether the mission required someone like Delta, but it was most definitely in their wheelhouse

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