>better in every way than the m4
>never adopted because 'muh american' patriotism and HK not failing for the scheming american politics
Your excuse?
>better in every way than the m4
>better in every way than the m4
>never adopted because 'muh american' patriotism and HK not failing for the scheming american politics
Your excuse?
Retard
You have to be 18 to use 4chins son
in his defense, I doubt theres more than 30-40 people under the age of 18 that know what an XM8 is. As far as I'm aware it hasn't been in any video game media in a few years at least.
I remember the XM8 cool carry handle, Also 40 rounds is what the XM8s mag capacity in Mercenaries 2 world in flames due to Allied Nations black magic.
Indeed, crusty old millennials always forget that time waits for nobody and things they associate with their adolescence are ancient history for everyone else. gay at my range got all bitter that I had no nostalgia for pre-9/11, when I was literally not even born yet.
>time waits for nobody
Damn straight skippy Oingo Boingo said it best No One Lives Forever.
I was Born 1995 little memories of pre 9/11 since I was in kindergarten at the time. Still growing up in GWOT era might of gave me a fetish for M4/M16/AR-15 carry handles witch are timeless vibes.
Picrel. Of what I mean by I have a hard-on fetish for carry handles.
Free fire
>Your excuse?
It’s a goofy fish gun
We just didn't need to spend money on a rifle that does the same thing. Now that automatic and semi auto are reliable and standard with good accuracy, the only time it's really worth changing is for a new cartridge. Rifles don't win wars any more.
>Rifles don't win wars any more
they never did unless we get to circumstances so drastic that it's a case of "rifles vs no rifles"
small arms are easily the most overrated part of a country's military strength, America could still be using garands and tommys and we would barely notice a difference
The M4 melted?
Who cares about whether it got adopted just give me these on the civilian market that aren’t $3000 small batch jobs with warranty designed around the the expectation of a cracked receiver
buy a good AR-18 instead
I’m so fucking glad I got a real G36 instead of dealing with TommyShart’s morondly bullshit.
>TommyShart’s morondly bullshit
what did he do?
Nothing. A couple of retarded Youtubers got some lemons and now that idiot thinks all Tommybuilt's TG-36s are shit.
>no HKV
Homosexual.
le fishe :DDDD blublublub
Nice g36 dude konichiwa~ bro!
>plastic shell that takes forever to break down compared to an AR
>proprietary everything
>no picatinny rail
Above all else, it's ugly. Should've never even gone as far as it did as a contender.
Retard.
>i'm only PRETENDING to be retarded :*~~)
That's not how it works newfag
>no picatinny rail
They were always available, but the Army specifically asked for a new mounting system.
Feeesh
Captcha: DDXDD
It's literally just a G36 bodykit.
The optics with integrated IR laser + illuminator made by Insight for the XM8 were fucking rad though.
Its so ugly on anything besides an XM8 or maybe on a G36 scope
they're not "rad" they're universally agreed as shit. Only funko collectors buy them
>universally agreed as shit
Ah yes universally agreed by the 2 digit count of its owners.
You're probably thinking about the Hensoldt dot sight/scope combo from the G36. Actual non-airsoft ISM-V sights are rate stuff.
Old fag here. Let me help this thread out. I worked in SOF with the son of the LTC at APG who was in charge of this program. I have a bit of the inside scoop on this. The XM8 was basically a G36 with a different housing. It suffered the same problem as the G36 in that the plastic trunion would overheat, get soft, and become very inaccurate at best.
I also thought that universal optic was pretty cool. However, the lasers and day optic never held the same zero in practice. The IR illuminator was inferior to the PEQ-2 everyone was running at the time.
They got sent to the 5th SFG(A) in Iraq around 2006 - 2008. I can't remember exactly when. They were only tested by the 18B committee for one rotation. I am sure some PMCs might have gotten some through the Bro Network or those "contractors" were SF guys in Contractor Camouflage pattern. The Bravo committee didn't like them at all. They were too bulky, too fragile, and didn't do anything better than the issue M4. Teams already had SPRs and 10" Mk18 uppers. Some were getting HK 416 uppers if anyone really needed a piston upper.
The plastic mounting points were considered too delicate and too inaccurate.
AMA if you think I missed something.
>It suffered the same problem as the G36 in that the plastic trunion would overheat and become very inaccurate at best.
Wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfPHZFsw40M [Embed] G36 is great rifle.
If you told me HK fixed the problematic trunnions, I would believe you. However, XM8 was considered by troops to actually got to use it to be inferior to the issue M4. APG seemed to agree. I don't think the US Army was excited to go through another rifle fiasco like the early M16.
true early M16 L85A1 and G36 all 5.56 rifles where shit from faulty ammunition and telling the GI's there rifle was self cleaning and now after some improvements(Eg M16A4, L85A3 and G36A2) all of them are goat rifles.
>the only problem with the l85 was ammo
dont think you can slip that bullshit past me Nigel, breaking charging handles and melting furniture is a little more substantial than bad ammo
>I’m not British I’m an American with Irish-German Canadian ancestry.
I agree with the L85a1s breaking charging handles, melting furniture and accidental magazine dropage. Still HK being the aryans chads they are fixed it and that’s how we got the L85A2 and L85A3.
Love the goofy carry handles that they have.
>The IR illuminator was inferior to the PEQ-2 everyone was running at the time.
It's literally a PEQ-15 built into an optic housing.
Similar. Not the same. The illuminator was inferior to the PEQ-2. One of the biggest problems the ISM had was you could not move the IR sources far enough forward to not create glare from the top rail. At best, this created shadows and blooming that were a problem. At worst, you risk a laser eye injury. The PEQ-15 can be moved to the end of the rifle to prevent this. You are also married to the day optic which was considered inferior to the Aimpoint or EOTech.
Have you talked to any 18B serving in 5th SFG(A) in Iraq during the height of the war?
>The plastic mounting points were considered too delicate and too inaccurate.
This is literally the first time I've seen someone point out they were fragile beyond the overheating issue, most other comments from guys who either tested them or worked on their development seem to have praise for the rifle.
>I worked in SOF with the son of the LTC at APG who was in charge of this program
literally stopped reading
Except you don't know anyone involved with the program.
Neither does the guy who posted all that, or you.
>It suffered the same problem as the G36 in that the plastic trunion would overheat, get soft, and become very inaccurate at best.
FUD and bullshit
> the lasers and day optic never held the same zero in practice
this was the real problem with the G36, shitty plastic rails that only got solved with alu ones with better attachment to the receiver.
>gets BTFO earlier in the thread by someone with actual sources
>disappears for like a day
>suddenly reappears as a guy with oh so convenient "dude trust me my dad works at Nintendo" links to the project
>ultimately only to make the same points as before but now as an "authority"
>dismisses anyone calling out his bullshit with appeals to said "authority"
Top fucking kek.
And I'm judging it based on what the actual fucking developers and testers said about it (the guy whose father works at Nintendo posting earlier in this thread doesn't count).
tha grip looks like a cz scorpion grip ie a terrible grip.
Dumb esl
Because Americans are hard on our weapons, and a g36 clone would have never been able to hold up.
anon... why do you have that picture saved?
because morons tongue his anus
Its just an AR-180 but with a battlestar aesthetic. Certainly cool but not an improvement over the M4.
People look at DI as an obstacle instead of a blessing.
Where is this picture from? Switzerland? Germany? Chile?
Switzerland
Stop reminding me that white heaven exists dammit.
it wasn't adopted because it would literally melt overtime
t. 2008 time traveler
Now that NGSW has passed, I think this gun would have been an interesting platform with polymer 5.56 rounds, which would have completely saved on weight and kept the rifle from overheating fast
A fucking SCAR would be cheaper and a better gun than that NGSW sigger grift gun.
Let me say that again a SCAR would be CHEAPER.
>SCAR would be cheaper
Bro it's an injection molded plastic lower with an extruded aluminum upper, it's a cheap gun to make. Why do you think everyone moved to that format/copied the scar?
Because when the SCAR was proposed in similar weapons programs it would always get shot down for being too expensive.
In fact when it first came out it was a bit of an expensive meme gun.
Now sig can get adoption for their over TWICE as expensive, heavier, piece of crap rifle that jams if you slam the mag too hard, because???
where is this twice as expensive thing coming from
it looks like street prices for an mcx spear and a scar 17s are about the same
The going rate for a SCAR 17s is 3-4 thousand dollars.
The price for the sig spear is 4-6 grand.
Who are you fooling??
3,599 vs 4,349 on gunprime
it's a bit more expensive but it's nowhere near double, retard
and you think that's what the military pays do you? lol. lmao even.
Goalpost.
Sneed.
you're the one moving goalposts from 2x to 1.2x
>Expensive
Using that word again. The Portuguese have it as a standard issue rifle. Kenya is in the process of making it standard.
The reason it gets rejected as too "expensive" is simply politics. The material and labor cost of a Scar is less than that of an Fn Fal.
>expensive meme gun.
only if you're a civillian. the military was paying a bit more than an m16 for them iirc. some anon posted all the contract prices here some years back.
If its so cheap, why does it cost 3-4k
because it didn't get adopted and it's got the coolguy tax attached to it
the bren 2 uses similar manufacturing technique as the scar and it doesn't cost that much, even compared to ar-15s of reputable make
It looks gay though
A plenty of futuristic military projects do.
I would rip my dick clean off my body to get my hands on some XM8 accessories, the Thai military bought a ton, you think when they retire them we will see handguards, optics, and other parts end up as milsurp? Or will TbT slurp them all up like he has in the past?
Apparently some ended up in the hands of PMC contractors? Not sure what became of those, though.
The Malaysian Navy was using them a decade ago, no idea if they still do though.
No, they don't
Those were evaluation samples
The RMN special forces uses M4s for day to day
Combat trials
most importantly, it looks like Starship Troopers
>be me
>Marine Corps vet
>joined in 2006, EAS in 2011
>luved me M16, simple as
>be civ for a few years
>am like 28 at this point
>make friends with guy on Insurgency
>he's maybe 21
>he insists his dad has many cool guns
>tells me his dad has a full auto XM8
>I call bullshit
>HE INSISTS
>says his dad got it from some prototype era
>his dad dies of cancer
>turns out that was all indeed bullshit
>no XM8
>never know if his dad lied to his son or if he lied to me
Thank you for your cervix
Look, I’m a Fish-lover too but, she didn’t really do anything better than M4. One dreams of a world where the fish is standard, but that’s it. A dream
that was a joke that the XM8 is just an AR-18
a bad AR-18
The AR18 was bad, so that goes without saying
yeah but it has some alright bodykits
noooo not the fricking future weapons!! how could they
>heavier
>bulkier
>2" shorter barrel length
>less adaptable than the modern m4
>no buffer tube but doesn't fold
>the rifle it was based on is being replaced with an ar-15 derivative
i'm good, thanks
it's a sexy and cool carbine, definitely, but in no way is it "better in every way"
Don't see how it was bulkier, ergonomics on it were nice if nothing else.
But yeah, it should have had an extra 2" of barrel length.
nah i'm just making shit up because i like to grip thumb over bore
i'm just imagining i would find it bulky to be limited in ways i can handle it
The G36 is generally reported to be pretty bulky. I wouldn't be surprised if the XM8 was the same way.
Next to each other, it actually seems like the XM8 is quite slimmer than the G36. Kinda reminds me of the difference between regular and slimline handguards seen in other HK guns. Which I guess makes sense when you consider how the reports of the people who actually got to try them often point out how comfortable they were to shoot.
Are you looking at a different picture than the one you posted
The XM8 is quite a bit slimmer than the G36 there unless you're blind.
So you're saying you're blind? Got it.
Retard. Do I need to make a diagram?
Wasn't it heavier only compared to an M4 with no full rail system and the equivalent attachments (dot sight/ACOG and IR laser)?
According to wikipedia the XM8 is 7.5lbs, which is a few ounces heavier than an M4 with an ACOG. Dunno how much weight a quadrail handguard adds.
>Dunno how much weight a quadrail handguard adds
Quite a bit, it's one of the reasons people nowadays are so crazy about MLOK.
Based on some quick searching it seems like the KAC quadrail is about 4oz heavier than the standard M4 plastic handguards, which actually isn't as much as I thought. Thus, an M4 with said quadrail HG and a 10oz ACOG would be about 7lbs 5oz, so still a bit lighter than the XM8.
You're forgetting the IR laser/designator.
Does the XM8 have a built-in one?
The ISM-V is a dot sight(or scope)/IR designator combo.
Huh. I wonder how it compares to current standalone lasers.
are we comparing rifle weights or optics
Peq 15 weighs 7.5oz. Pushes it above the Xm8. Considering the Xm8 sacrifices 2 inches of barrel length and has a significantly thinner barrel, I dont see that as a win.
I also question how good that little all in one optic/ir lluminator was. Needing to reach back to play with that vs having it out front or having a pressure switch.
Basically it comes out ahead of a long heavier barreled carbine with an acog and peq. In exchange you get worse everything for that 5oz of weight savings.
I wouldn't doubt it, I was mostly trying to explain the mentality behind the weight savings back then.
a quadrail isn't fair for the xm8 since it doesn't have a handguard that holds zero anyway
>since it doesn't have a handguard that holds zero anyway
That's wrong.
sure
PCAP was always advertised as being able to detach and reattach stuff without losing zero.
You’re right, the handguard IS free floated from the barrel, and so is the bipod.
the handguard being freefloated from the barrel doesn't mean the things attached to it hold zero
it is the same issue well known with g36 handguards
What's the source of that being an issue with the XM8?
it's literally the same mounting system as the g36 with only push pins to secure it
so back to the main point, a full length free floated handguard isn't fair to compare to an xm8
1 (one) push pin
>it's literally the same mounting system as the g36 with only push pins to secure it
Actually it’s been updated to a o-ringed nut and screw that’s also a sling mount point. Handguard stays pretty in place with it, haven’t tried mounting a laser though.
So? There’s plenty of rail real estate on top.
>https://www.hkpro.com/threads/g36-vs-xm8.119163/
>The unique HK developed “PCAP’s” mounting points (the concept started with the HK 05 mount concept used on HK hunting rifles like the SL6, HK770, etc.) molded into the receiver and forearm had better zero retention than the Picatinny rails and added almost no weight (1 ounce each versus 1+ pound for a rail system) to the weapon. In fact there are more differences in the XM8 versus the G36 then one sees on the surface.
This is coming from G3Kurz AKA Jim Schatz himself, probably the biggest resource of information regarding the XM8 project.
Probably not too well, integrated optics/lasers are pretty much kind of an outdated concept nowadays.
way to ignore the point retard
PCAP vs picatinny rail isn't the source of the flex but the handguard that's only secured by one push pin
Again, Schatz mentions that there are more differences between the two guns than what seems apparent at first, so judging the XM8 entirely on G36 might be flawed. Or might be not. We don't know because we don't have the fucking gun to actually test that.
>judging the XM8 entirely on G36
except i'm not
i'm judging it based on surviving copies, which has the same push pin securing the handguard
the optic's pcap mount is better than the g36, sure, but we weren't talking about the optic
in every way than the m4
She deserved more love. XM8 would had been a million time better than the abomination SIG pulled out of its' ass.
>Your excuse?
It looks retarded and tryhard
Gay
cope
With your gayness?
Based Armalite making America's rifle right down the street from a movie of cowboys killing Indians being filmed
FISH. GUN.
MOUSE. COMPUTER.
>In every way
Wrong
It looks kinda gay, m4 looks cooler
Not when you bastardize like so many retards do.
>HK not failing for the scheming american politics
LOL, the same company that has bribed and garden gnomeed the military into buying their piston driven shitters instead of superior DI rifles?
BC2 was a good game
I miss when the XM8 was all over vidya. Has the new Sig gun appeared in any game so far?
how do I make a rat patrol kit bros
Ironsight and Battlefield 2042. Should be in Tarkov in next big update
>Should be in Tarkov in next big update
aw fuck that. probably going to be another ash12 performance wise.
Ready or Not has it as a mod replacer for the FAL. Definitely interesting to do door kicking with such a large rifle. Find that it's only truly practical on night maps when you can point shoot with canted sights and an ANPEQ. takes any opponent down in a single shot, almost have to use HP or you'll over penetrate through half the map
That's the most 2005 ugly hunk of shit I've ever seen. Plastic is not a good idea on military guns, would've been an expensive disaster all those grips and carry handles breaking off.
>muh American patriotism
>everyone uses hk416s now
Care to explain?
Americans do use HK416 too dummy it’s what officially killed Bin Laden and USMC uses the 416 under the name M27 IAR
Based LEGOchad.
legos are total fag country
This poster is a butthurt fan of chinesium block toys.
how did you know I like my holosuns
kek
LEGOchad here,
Lego company are indeed gays since they'll never make war toys but these specialty companies make unofficial guns for lego figs.
>pic shown is two Waffen SS TMC lego fig and a Adolf Hitler Chink copy fig shown armed.
that's why I said legos are fag country
Agreed bro, The Lego Dane fags will never make a Hitler fig the closest we got are the Indiana Jones Nazi figs.
If anyone wants the XM8 in lego form,
mine is a Brickarms AC8(XM8) msrp $1
https://www.brickmania.com/brickarms-ac8-assault-carbine/
in every way than the m4
>adopted literally nowhere and the project died immediately after failing to replace the M4
lmao
Most of those trials came to the conclusion that the big problem with the AR platform was magazines. Enhanced followers and pmags resolved those issues.
>muh American
The XM8 was the most American G36 derivative ever, retard. No other country adopted it because it wasn't a significant improvement over existing small arms.
>XM8 American G36
Awesome still both Merica and DE G36s have equally poggers Carry Handles.
question, did the M27s(hk416usmc) have any problems with the trunnions?
The M27 is highly regarded as far as I can tell.
>M27=far
awesome 10-4
The red dot and integrated scope handle was cool, even if it isn't really that good compared to standalone optics. Especially the standalone optics we have today. Little ahead of its time but that's what it gets for being the G11 substitute.
The idea is superb.
>magnified scope with BDC for long range shots, red dot riding on top for CQB, in lightweight ruggedized package
Basically an ACOG+RMR combo, 20 years ahead of the time.
The problem is in execution.
>H&K outsourced this to Hensoldt who proceeded to build an optic that puts early chink airsoft accessories to shame
>miraculously enough, the insane amount of (decent) plastic used in its construction protects the unit from receiving too much damage from boots being boots
>unfortunately, having a tiny plastic optical tube sit in a plastic housing held in place by a single spring and two adjustment screws, and having all of this mounted to a plastic rail with three phillips screws, doesn't really lend itself to long term zero retention
>optical insert tube will inevitably start flaking off from the inside and cluttering the reticle with black spots, the only solution is to swap the insert
Don't get me wrong I fucking love the thing, but the glass is really dim with atrocious FoV, the eye relief ensures it will ding you in the eyebrow under recoil if you're crouching or prone, and the red dot... isn't.
(It's a LED that illuminates a fibre optic, has 1 brightness setting that can only be boosted a little for 30 seconds at a time, and the tube is - again - so tiny that acquiring the dot is actually a bitch to do reliably. Oh and it's powered by a proprietary AA sized 3V lithium battery. Keep that shit away from your NODs at ALL COSTS.)
On the other hand, this is a great gun to learn to shoot both-eyes-open with, because the "red dot" is utterly impossible to use with one eye closed.
Really it's a shame because if they didn't treat the HKVs as disposable and made them at least AUG level in quality, things would be ver different.
Still, I'd trust the thing over many other service rifles, regardless of how infuriating it is to use if you come from a modern optic.
>20 years
10
First Docters piggybacked on ACOGs and Elcans started appearing in the late 00s while the G36 was in development since 1990, but okay, kinda fair.
It doesn't need to merely be better, it has to beat the previous option hard enough to justify the hassle and expense of replacing it.
The one this it has going against the M4 was it not having a burst fire mechanism at all, let alone one that doesn't reset. Why the fuck should anyone go for this when it's nothing more than a G36 with a different plastic body?
*thing
>nothing more than a G36 with a different plastic body?
Already debunked.
>deboonked!
Yes.
All of its problems could have been fixed and it would have been a great all around service carbine but it wouldn't be as light as they originally hoped.
Weight is the real problem of the G36/XM8 platform.
Originally the idea was to make the G36 a cheap and lightweight service rifle, but the plastic used needs more volume to match the qualities of steel/aluminum. This wasn't a problem at first with the early G36, but when real modularity with rails, better stocks, and attachments were needed to compete, it made it heavier than the AR15 equivalents.
It didn't help that H&K has traditionally favoured increasing weight to fix shit as their default engineering mindset (PSG1, L85A2...)
>fuck off huge and bulky, bigger than a SCAR 308
>fuck off huge magazines
>plastic but barely weighs less than a stripped down m4
>some how they managed to create a charging handle more finnicky than an M16
>get stuck in prolonged shooting? "lol, why would worry about your zero in fallujah, tikrit ramadi samarra? you dont have to worry about that, trust ~~*us*~~"
>~~*german*~~ proprietary this and patented that horseshit
>magazines
When the g36 was introduced, its magazines were seen as a huge improvement over the shitty old AR15 ones that caused so many trouble and stained the reputation of the platform.
It wasn't until the late 90s green follower mags and magpul that that reputation improved in the 2000s.
>huge magazines
Manlet post
To be fair, almost all G36 users cut the joining studs and H&K eventually wade slimmer mags eating his germanic autistic stubborness
joining studs was one of the good points of the magazines though
all the coolguys at the time were running taped mags
it was good in theory, or for cops. But for military use in the field it ends up with rounds being spilled from the top of the mag if they get handled roughly.
If you look at serious G36 users, they usually run magpul mags or cut the studs
Still better than the ye-olde tape solution if you really insist on doing that sort of thing.
My G36 mags are latest gen without the studs and without the overinsertion-stop-rim and they're still WAY too fucking fat to fit in most mag pouches.
It looks like a spraypainted super-soaker.
>never adopted because 'muh american' patriotism and HK not failing for the scheming american politics
is this what retards actually think happened?