Given the current state of PrepHole, I'll probably regret making a thread about this kind of subject matter but why did this happen?
This seems like the kind of thing you'd EXPLICITLY try to avoid
Was there some deeper angle at play from either side or was it just a fuck up
Russians told fagner to go and take the oil refinery and promised them air support and shit. Murica phoned the Russians and asked them what the fuck they were playing at, Russia said those guys weren't theirs. Blah blah blah lots of fagner died.
fpbp, RuMOD killed those guys. Though it was nice to see the US still has the same chops it developed in Desert Storm even if we don't get to see much of it anymore.
Checked
>Though it was nice to see the US still has the same chops it developed in Desert Storm
It never went anywhere, certainly not where it counted. Air power was the defining facet of Desert Storm, and it proved how well the Burgers had honed their business in the air. They've only ever gotten better and it's honestly the an area where the US doesn't truly have any real competitors.
Shoigu wanted to test USA grit
Prigogine was getting greedy
This + "Prigo if you get the oil you get a cut of the profits" = Wagner gets rekt
>Was there some deeper angle at play
SAA/Russians thought the US was too pussy to stick around and would flee when they saw armored vehicles.
Some wagner members gave testimony on the battle a couple months ago and explained exactly what happened and what went wrong etc etc. some other anon prob has the link.
dont remember exactly what they said but they were lied to by the russian army in a number of ways and so went out on an assault without expecting much resistance (they brought no afvs, air defense assets). i think it was just a bunch uparmored pickups could be wrong.
we thought it was just SAA and bombed them from all angles until they fucked off though.
what it IS is an example of everything wrong with russia. what it isn't is an example of russia fighting us or whatever. not saying that wouldn't also be a slaughter or anything because it probably would be
>Fagner dindunuffin it was all army fault
Wagner soldiers are not good source for what actually happened
Good morning sir.
>i think it was just a bunch uparmored pickups could be wrong
They brought T-72s, T-62s, BRDMs, and uparmored pickups. Americans at the battle wrote about how they used the 50s to keep the T-72s buttoned up to lower their visibility
>we thought it was just SAA
No, the U.S. knew it included a large Russian contingent, which is why they called the Russians immediately once they started firing on American forces.
That whole area was under full fire control by the Americans, so they saw the whole thing coming days ahead and were just stunned they were actually going through with it.
That’s why they had B-52’s, F-22’s, Reapers, HIMARS, AC-130’s, Apaches and M777’s ready to go, and were all on station so quickly.
>called the Russians immediately once they started firing on American forces.
Yes and the russians said they weren't there so we assumed it was just SAA
Bruh they went TZD on them precisely because they knew.
It's a way of saying "next time just admit it's you, fuckers".
There are few assumptions in these situations such as these. The U.S. had Reapers and RQ-7B Shadow, no doubt listening in on every radio emission 24/7.
They knew damn well they were Russians.
Could you post said testimonials because a common cope I keep hearing was the battle never actually happened
Yeah wagner posted thier story on thier channel the grey zone.
Here is a translation of it.
On the wagner side its referred to as red feburary.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1674479633545175047.html
Here you go
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-special-forces-vs-russian-mercenaries-syria-details.
(1/3)
>"On February 7, 2018, one of the largest open military clashes between Russia and the United States in the last century took place. There were and are many rumors and even legends about this case, but so far this has not been talked about openly. It happened in the Syrian province of Deir ez-Zor, within and around the city of Hasham (Hisham). Stormtroopers of the "Wagner Group" continued to move through the next province, freeing the territory from the terrorists of the "Islamic State (ISIS)". By the end of the autumn of 2017, the Wagner liberated the city of the same name Deir ez-Zor, a nearby island, and beyond the Euphrates and Mazlum with Hasham. Behind the latter, 3.5 km to the north, was one of the largest oil and gas plants in Syria, Conoko. In principle, the best deposits were concentrated in the northeast of the country, and they, of course, were under the control of the Americans. But not this one, at least not right away. In the past, the Wagner Group has repeatedly had to knock out ISIS terrorists from oil refineries (for example, the Ash-Shair fields or the Haiyan refinery), which they often choose to receive money for terrorist activities from the sale of oil on the black market. But this time something incomprehensible happened, the ISIS left the most profitable place in Syria just like that and the Americans immediately drove there in December, well, their disposable friends the Kurds, with whose presence they covered up their similar activities. At the same time, not a penny goes to the legitimate Syrian government from oil and gas production. Despite this, the headquarters agreed on an assault by two detachments with the support of equipment, a consolidated artillery company, as well as the Syrians."
(2/3)
>"Our air defense and air force forces were supposed to provide support and cover, at least this was stated by the side of these same “allied forces”. At exactly midnight from February 7 to 8, the detachments began to complete the task. The equipment with the infantry went. Artillery began to work. Suddenly, along the column of the 5th assault detachment, it flies from the sky and no one even understands where it came from. According to the classics, the enemy closed the column, destroying the lead and trailing piece of equipment. Why the column then lined up and stood up - I do not know. The fact is that despite the fact that the “musicians” managed to move forward, squeeze under the plant so that the Americans could not hit us and at the same time themselves, the guys did not have time. Later it will become clear that the strike UAV MQ-9 "Reaper" was watching all this past our air defense. Immediately, AN-64 "Apache" helicopters appeared in the sky. They flew in pairs. They arranged a carousel around those who tried to retreat to the second line and simply shot from guided and unguided weapons, as well as machine guns. Later, the passage of the F-16 bomber cut through the air, he worked on the technique in urban areas. It would seem, what else? But then, in a moment of calm, the rumble of turboprop engines was heard, when suddenly after that the clay houses simply began to turn into dust - it was already an AC-130 flying artillery battery. The guys from the Karpaty detachment will later tell that in the morning it was possible to find how the melted sand and the barrels of weapons bent under the combustion temperature froze.
(3/3)
>"And in the meantime, it also continued to fly in pointwise from something along the equipment that had somehow dispersed, while from this the URAL simply crumpled like a chocolate bar clenched into a fist. After debriefing the flight, it turned out that there was also a B-52 strategic bomber in the sky, but whether it worked and if it worked, then what is unknown. The active phase of the battle, and - in fact, meat grinders - lasted until 4 in the morning. Separate strikes and raids by F-16s were at 6 o'clock. There was no support at that time. Despite the fact that the duty aviation of the Aerospace Forces was a few kilometers away at the Deir ez-Zor airfield. It is said that a couple of pilots tried to get permission to take off, but they were refused. True or not, there is such a rumor. Despite persistent rumors and outright fakes, the losses do not amount to the 200 or even 600 people declared by some sources. I won't say how much. But there are certainly many dead."
What would have changed if Wagner had a Pantsir battery? Still a one sided slaughter, but could they get a cheeky shot on the AC-130?
nothing.
panstir is a short range AA.
it would have gotten blown up 1st.
>What would have changed if Wagner had a Pantsir battery?
There would be few more videos of Pantsirs getting ACKed
It'd suffer the fate of being SNEED'd, except there wouldn't be need for a HARM given how short ranged Pantsirs are relative to the PGMs being fired at Wagner forces.
US aircraft and artillery
F-22 fighter jets
F-15E strike fighters
B-52 bombers
AC-130 gunships
AH-64 Apache attack helicopters
MQ-9 Reaper unmanned combat aerial vehicles
RQ-7B Shadow unmanned aerial vehicles
M777 howitzer artillery
M142 HIMARS rocket artillery
Considering this is what the US had this on hand
While they were retreating from there it must seemed like an 18-carat run of bad luck.
But, truth was... the game had been rigged from the start.
Pantsir would have gotten wiped off the map first, at most there would be a 30 minute delay before the slaughter commenced
Syria has tons of Panties, the S-300 and S-400 were deployed there, and the Iranians man their own S-300 batteries there and a mix of other Russian AD. Israel has carried out over a decade of sorties there, up to 5,000 some years, and not lost one (1) pilot.
I don't think it does fuck all. The gunship and B-52 only came in because it was clear. If you had AD they'd just not be deployed until it was dead.
Chinese AD scares me because there is a fuck ton and they have no iterated several whole models past the Russians and have simply better shit. The level of Russian AD deployed in Syria just was not going to force the US to leave ground forces out to dry, at best it temporarily reduces options for smashing targets.
Unfortunately, I do fear this leads to hubris in some people.
Chinese AD is scary in context because you're talking about fighting mostly from carriers near their mainland which gives them a massive advantage. It isn't scary in the context of them deployed in some third country near as much. But in the near term you'd be talking mostly F-18s against a very complex air defense enviornment with a large ground fleet of interceptor craft in the mix too with decent BVR.
Unfortunately, I think in the medium term, any conflict that pits the carrier fleet against China will be a high attrition battlefield even if we win.
By contrast, by this point I think NATO could force a no fly zone on Ukraine with relatively low attrition.
You can absolutely dominate an environment and still have high attrition. I don't think anyone debated that the US and UK came to completely dominate the air war over Germany fairly quickly in the war and yet pilots had an insane loss rate of like 70%.
Japan is a little different because at least early on they had just better pilots and so the imbalance resulted from actual bad odds for the US pilots, although Japanese tech quality and pilot quality relative to the US cratered hard later in the war.
There was an esclation cycle leading up to it where the US kept refusing to hit back so they could appear more reasonable and less childish.
The russian saw it as the US is unwilling to fight back but would instead of retreat to avoid conflict like they had been doing.
Russians forgot that when the US does this to spefically to justify a mass and overwhelming retaliation that no one can really bitch about.
The Russians instinctinly pushing the line until they hit resistance then fuck off.
To quote lenin.
“You probe with bayonets: if you find mush, you push. If you find steel, you withdraw”
― Vladimir Ilich Lenin
Prigozhin CLAIMED that the MoD promised that they'd be covered by AA, the eyebrow was raised and the US understood, everyone knew everything, etc. only to leave them hanging.
Yeah seems like self serving bollocks on his end too for his MoD war, probably thought claps wouldn't have the balls. There's no way he thought Russian AA was going to start a war with America.
Yeah, that bit was posted right before he went on his march for justice so I take it with a grain of salt, more than likely he was simply huffing the same kind of 'they won't do shit, the eyebrow is raised *~~)' copium that Putin went into Ukraine with. But I choose to believe it since it's kino.
Honestly the life and death of pringles really makes him the MC of this whole war.
I could easily see him getting a scarface or breaking bad tier show or movie after him.
His life and death is basically a full story arc where everyone else in this war is pretty static.
The only other one who has a charcter arc is Girkin his story was stright out of a COD game but his ending for this war rather sad and bland so far.
>Russian glowie who loves the idea of the state spends his whole life doing terrible things in its service, only to be thrown in jail (and likely poisoned) as he did before. The cycle continues
I’d watch it. The end is sad but fitting.
>The end is sad but fitting
Yeah, a story as old as time in Russian history, at this point getting sent to Hague as a bargain chip wouldn't even be the worst end for Girkin, because we all know he'd involuntary take part in a special window operation first
>at this point getting sent to Hague as a bargain chip
Wait a minute. Is this the real reason they arrested Mr. Pickle? In case shit goes too sideways, they have a meat shield/bargaining chip with the Ukraine and/or the West?
RuMoD tells pringles to take the area, and says he will get air support.
The US sees a bunch of fuckers with obviously Russian gear starting to attack them and calls the RuMoD.
RuMoD denies that those are their guys, because Wagner is supposed to be a deniable asset
Russian Air Support sees that a pretty large chunk of US Airpower is in the area (including at least 1 F22) and realizes that if they go in they will get killed.
The Russian Air Support fucks off
The Wagner guys continue to get smoked, pringles bitches on the internet for years.
To me, this battle is really crazy. It's like we got a glimpse into the true capabilities of both armies.
>true capabilities of both armies.
I think Russia would lose in a direct confrontation with the US but that's not really a fair assessment here. If the RuMOD had truly decided to back up Wagner there would've at least been more artillery and the US Air Support would've had to properly suppress Russian AD first instead of just jumping into a feeding frenzy because the Russians shrugged and said those weren't their guys.
That’s what’s happen when you move a column of armored veichles without air support
fagner meat sack goes pop
>ROSSIYA STRONK!
>URA-ACK!