Barrel rifling, how is it done?

Hey, wondering how one can recreate gun rifling. What type of tool was used and is used currently? So far it seems like a slow moving metal late with a cutter being dragged across the inside. This seems though tho. Does it have to be 100% accurate, or does any rifling beat non-rifling in terms of accuracy/speed/etc?

  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Tough*

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    most use a rifling button.
    google it

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    bump

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I don't know exactly how it's made, but I can tell you that 100% pristine rifling is from a bygone era. Bore scoping any modern production firearm will give you PTSD.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >thinking past bores were better
      You 30IQ retard, it's literally the opposite, modern day bores would be concidered match+ grade to past manufacturing.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      old rifling is a polished turd, it doesn't matter how smooth it looks if the dimensions are all over the place

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Wrong and retarded. There's nothing more accurate than a Sharp's rifle and the old hand fitted stuff btfo out new production 99% of the time. You can't just cherry pick to your mass produced wartime junk that same conscript shot the bore out of before you born.

        https://i.imgur.com/gpDZrHU.png

        [...]
        This post is retarded. but in an interesting way. Like all the information is correct but presented in the dumbest fucking way possible and coming to retarded conclusions.
        The investment in machinery to CHF makes it overall more expensive than cut blanks, with button rifling. Yes cut barrels are more accurate but they are weaker as well. So forging produces are sturdier barrel. So depending on use case CHF is preferable. Chrome lining again, is heat handling vs accuracy, when talking chrome vs nitride. Naked once again gives the very best accuracy. As Nitriding a barrel requires proper stress relieving OR it will impact accuracy. 4140 is for poors, and you are a dumb bitch CHF is more expensive than normal lathed barrels. Machines arent free.

        Seethe more gay

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You clearly don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about and the board would be better served if you just stop posting.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Anon, 4 MOA was considered god-tier wen the Sharps was being produced. Modern CHF is considered shit at 4MOA and pretty fucking bad at 2MOA.
          Everything is a compromise. Modern nitriding and CHF is durable, especially in inhospitable areas. The competition guys with button cut stainless barrels retire those barrels for competition in just a couple thousand rounds, and are fully clapped out around 5k.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      So guns today are less precise and accurate than firearms of the past?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I mean, no, that's provably and obviously not true, but that will never stop retards from saying and repeating it if that's what they decide they want to believe today.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Milling in a lathe or forged with a circular hammer and a very hard (silicon carbide) mandrel like form. The latter method have the advantage that you can cold forge (hardening) and rifling the barrel in one process.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Something I don't understand about cold hammer forging is how they get the mandrel out. Alright, you hammered a tube of steel soo hard around this rifled form that it took on the corkscrewed rifling by pushing down into the gaps.... Now how the fuck to do you get it out?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The mandrel is not actually in the bore.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Where else would it be?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Mounted on the machine.
            The mandrel is very short. Hammers form the raw billet over a taper on the mandrel to form the bore. Nothing actually extends into the bore.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              then how does rifling get inside the bore.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The process explained by none other than Ian.

                ?t=156

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I'm

        Milling in a lathe or forged with a circular hammer and a very hard (silicon carbide) mandrel like form. The latter method have the advantage that you can cold forge (hardening) and rifling the barrel in one process.

        , even if it's forged to the shape of the mandrel the steel have elasticity, it should spring back slightly and leave a tiny clearance. If it were hot forged then the contraction would press the barrel against the mandrel, good luck extracting it.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I dont feel like typing a lot but best to worst methods in order:
    >Cold hammer forging
    >Button rifling
    >electrochemical
    Electrochemical rifling can be done at home
    Rifling bests unrifled for distance and accuracy with single projectiles and it awful for things like birdshot

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      you forgot single point rifling which is basically what op described and used in just about every competition rifle

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        this
        I got to tour of Krieger barrels a while ago
        fuckin' amazing

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >awful for things like birdshot
      Depends what you're using the shotgun for. An 18" rifled barrel with #9 birdshot is the absolute perfect loadout for killing small pests like snakes and rats within 10 yards.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Can you explain? I don't know shit about how that interacts

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Spinning something makes it want to move away from its center. When rifling spins a shot wad, it disperses rapidly after it leaves the barrel. In short, it gives a shotgun video game spread.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Cut it with a button.
    Cut it with a drill like thing.
    Have a mandrel with the inverse imprint on it and hammer the barrel around it to forge it in place.
    With no exceptions that I can think of at the moment but might exist, every gun barrel made used one of these three options. Cold hammer forging, the last one, has become the de facto standard lately.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >With no exceptions that I can think of at the moment but might exist
      theres cutting 1 line of rifling at a time. similar to button except button is cutting multiple at the same time.
      this was not a good method used by anyone who could do better.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Single point rifling is still the most popular choice for precision.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Not bait, Just wondering how one would rifle a barrel. Into that wilderness survival shit and was curious how impossible it would be to do that without a full-on factory or machining equipment.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        you're in luck. back in the 60's and 70's a high school teacher in the appalachians sent his students out to interview the old people who still remembered how things were done before modern technology, and wrote it up and published it. this book
        https://www.amazon.com/Foxfire-Ironmaking-Blacksmithing-Flintlock-Hunting/dp/0385143087
        covers rifle manufacture, including making and rifling barrels, making gunpowder, etc.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Thank you brother this is right up my alley. Thanks again.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            there's a bit of a sad story attached to them. turns out the teacher was molesting the kids.
            https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1992/11/12/foxfire-founder-pleads-guilty-to-child-molestation/

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              it just what happens it happens alot with women teachers and children too.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          those books are incredible, not just for the how-to information in them but the cultural history as well.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Just bought the whole set, thanks for the heads up

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What's the tool for generating this image

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              autism

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Cool shit.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          That exact book is the reason i'm into gunmaking, and am already setup as a blacksmith, OP, if there's anything you take form this post, it needs to be that book

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Awesome, lost the name of these books a long time ago and finally found them again.
          Finding amazing books like these is one of the only reasons I still browse here after all these

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        make a hexagon bore hole. then heat the barrel soft and give it a twist and you have your rifling. you can shape a rolled barrel from shaping the initial fold. you can cut the rifling using a broach or using etching fluid to cut the rifling.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You just need a screw of similar pitch to make the path

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >hello Home Depot
          >yes do you carry any 0.05 thread per inch screws?
          *click*

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Definitely look at ECM barrel rifling
        you can buy pre-hardened hydraulic tubing, and cut the chamber and rifling with magic (electricity)
        I got about 3 inch group at 50 yards with in an FGC-9 (the main gun that uses an ECM barrel)

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Rifling buttons can fit in your pocket. You

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          How do these cut your bore? They don't look particularly sharp at all.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Ram one up your ass and find out for us

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You ram these through the bore and the inside kinda molds to the button. Think of it like stamping. Also, you typically use a hydraulic press for this. Hammering works too but the product is kinda...rough.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            They don't. They're pressed through the bore and form the metal around the button, hence the very gradual taper on the leading end.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              So it deforms the metal. The displaced material has to go somewhere and it can only go to the sides and it will then create little hills. I suppose you'd still need to cut them out to keep the diameter the same.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous
  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Does it have to be perfect
    Pretty close or you start tearing the projectile apart.
    >Does any rifling beat smoothbore
    Pretty much. Also, check out the Whitworth rifle.
    >Accuracy
    Rifling is a requirement beyond 100 yards and ideal within.
    >Velocity
    No rifling = unstable projectile = as soon as that round goes sideways accuracy is a dream in the glow of a crack pipe.
    That does make me wonder how well round ball slugs would do in a 12gauge, given a tight fit with the barrel.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Taufaldermaus on YouTube did 12g Pumpkin balls and they worked really well . Most old rifles used a slightly oversize ball and the barrel would actually shave some lead off when fired to ensure good fit and engagement.
      Modern bullets are actually the same. Which is why copper and lead are used so much.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Taufaldermaus on YouTube did 12g Pumpkin balls and they worked really well . Most old rifles used a slightly oversize ball and the barrel would actually shave some lead off when fired to ensure good fit and engagement.
      Modern bullets are actually the same. Which is why copper and lead are used so much.

      Projectiles can be stable in flight without rifling. Example of this are airgun pellets and foster shotgun slugs. Unfortunately, the properties that make a projectile stable without spin also make it have an extremely low ballistic coefficient. Round balls are an interesting case. A round ball is actually stable in flight without spin, but the barrel will cause it to spin in a random direction perpendicular to the direction of motion. This creates asymmetrical drag that makes round balls from smoothbores inaccurate.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Neat. That also explains why every slug is a Foster.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The easiest method is ECM which involves a bucket, some wire ,power supply, aquarium pump with a screen filter, a power supply, and a cup of salt

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I use a barrel rifler

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's time to make PrepHole seeth with some truth.

    1. Cold Hammer Forgered
    The fact is CHF (cold hammer forging) is done by putting a mandrel down a barrel blank and hammering the barrel onto it. This work hardens the steel and requires less steps saving the manufacturers money. Manufacturers love it because it saves them time and money. The truth is the most accurate barrels are actually cut and the other method, button rifling, which pushes a button or die down the barrel blank also work hardens the steel while giving a more consistent rifling. It's arguably the best but requires an extra finishing step and costs more to make than CHF. So when /ARG/ starts bragging about their cold hammer forging, point at them and laugh.

    2. Chrome lining, /ar/ loves chrome lining. The fact is this adds a layer or coating to the inside of the barrel that reduces accuracy. In expensive top of the line barrel it only reduces accuracy by a little bit, still a reduction. The military loves it because its' more resistent to the heat generated from full auto, and specifically regular full auto fire. This is a complete non-issue for 99.9999% of AR owners. Furthermore, most chrome lined barrels have exterior phosphate finishes, basically they are parkerized. This is also the most outdated and worst way to protect your barrel surface. An alternative is to just nitride treat the whole thing inside and out. Similar to Glock's original Tenifer coating, this changes the structure of the metal on a molecular level, putting a very hard and very corrosion resistant finish on it inside and out. Because you're not adding a coating layer, it also does not degrade accuracy. Bonus points, it's cheaper to make the downside is it's not as good for sustained full auto fire which is something only LARPERS are going to give a shit about.

    cont...

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      3. Lastly steel, there are 2 common chro-moly steels in use, 4150 vs 4140. /arg/ will snob anything that isn't 4150 but against, it's only useful regarding full auto. It's also harder to machine. The military shooting hundreds of thousands of rifles in full auto with maximum abuse may notice some statistical difference but no individual user is ever going to. 4140 is just a little easier to machine but it's not as easy as stainless. Stainless steal rifles are actually the most accurate and they do fine despite technically softer metal. 4140 and 4150 are very similar but it has the advantage of being easier to machine well, which is not a bad thing.

      In short, /arg/ will give you bad advice that equates to gate keeping snobbery. They're running around with inaccurate chrome lined barrels rifled in the cheapest manner. This is indisputable and their choice of steel offers them no advantage in the real world, which is a place they admittedly seldom visit.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >/arg/ gives bad advice

        Gee an echo chamber of retarded gays? Giving bad advice?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's time to make PrepHole seeth with some truth.

        1. Cold Hammer Forgered
        The fact is CHF (cold hammer forging) is done by putting a mandrel down a barrel blank and hammering the barrel onto it. This work hardens the steel and requires less steps saving the manufacturers money. Manufacturers love it because it saves them time and money. The truth is the most accurate barrels are actually cut and the other method, button rifling, which pushes a button or die down the barrel blank also work hardens the steel while giving a more consistent rifling. It's arguably the best but requires an extra finishing step and costs more to make than CHF. So when /ARG/ starts bragging about their cold hammer forging, point at them and laugh.

        2. Chrome lining, /ar/ loves chrome lining. The fact is this adds a layer or coating to the inside of the barrel that reduces accuracy. In expensive top of the line barrel it only reduces accuracy by a little bit, still a reduction. The military loves it because its' more resistent to the heat generated from full auto, and specifically regular full auto fire. This is a complete non-issue for 99.9999% of AR owners. Furthermore, most chrome lined barrels have exterior phosphate finishes, basically they are parkerized. This is also the most outdated and worst way to protect your barrel surface. An alternative is to just nitride treat the whole thing inside and out. Similar to Glock's original Tenifer coating, this changes the structure of the metal on a molecular level, putting a very hard and very corrosion resistant finish on it inside and out. Because you're not adding a coating layer, it also does not degrade accuracy. Bonus points, it's cheaper to make the downside is it's not as good for sustained full auto fire which is something only LARPERS are going to give a shit about.

        cont...

        This post is retarded. but in an interesting way. Like all the information is correct but presented in the dumbest fucking way possible and coming to retarded conclusions.
        The investment in machinery to CHF makes it overall more expensive than cut blanks, with button rifling. Yes cut barrels are more accurate but they are weaker as well. So forging produces are sturdier barrel. So depending on use case CHF is preferable. Chrome lining again, is heat handling vs accuracy, when talking chrome vs nitride. Naked once again gives the very best accuracy. As Nitriding a barrel requires proper stress relieving OR it will impact accuracy. 4140 is for poors, and you are a dumb bitch CHF is more expensive than normal lathed barrels. Machines arent free.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >4140 is just a little easier to machine but it's not as easy as stainless. Stainless steal rifles are actually the most accurate and they do fine despite technically softer metal.
        I happened to glance at this, didn't read any of the rest of what you wrote, and I'm glad I didn't bother, because this is so idiotically wrong that I doubt the rest is worthwhile at all.

        Stainless is an absolute bitch to machine because it work-hardens as you cut it.

        My only surprise is that you didn't recommend the use of Inconel or some other superalloy as being the easiest shit to fuck with.

        Up next, Anon explains how to make pretty purple crystals with iodine and ammonia.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          There's the /arg/ anger I was waiting on. Good, good let the anger flow through you as you realize you've paid more for inferior products thanks to your retard echo chamber.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >actually knowing something about metalworking shows that you're /arg/
            dilate moar

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Your own posts show your ignorance.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Its believed that rifling began by accident. During black powder days some dude figured out that if you cut groves in the barrel it increased the time you could take between cleaning. The grooves would catch powder residue. When they started cutting these grooves in a spiral to increase surface area they became noticeable more accurate.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      People also already knew that spinning stabilized projectiles better.
      Arrows with proper fletching spin in air and this is easily seen.
      The idea of trying to make a musket ball spin wasn't a distant step in the minds of those making firearms.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Its believed that rifling began by accident
      nice use of passive voice. you are the only one who believe this. people have known for millenia that spinning a projectile makes it more accurate. fletching makes an arrow spin - even if there is no twist on the vanes.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I said it's believed as in some historians believe this. Not that it's accepted as fact by everyone. You're just an angry little nerd arguing over semantics.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        What he said has been featured on sevrrsl documentaries and I remembrr me Highschool history teacher discussing as part of how technology affected tactics during the civil war.
        No people have not understood this forever.
        >nb4 you were only pretending to be retarded.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >phone posting while driving

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It was significantly before the 1800s.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not saying there weren't one offs but...

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Just shut the fuck up, retard. You don't know anything about guns.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Proving my pount actually, thanks.

                That text is about cannons, not guns in general

                Yeah because if it was widely understood in the 1500's how much better rifling is,it damn sure wouldn't have taken over 300 years to figure get the canon to work with it.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, and tactics had to change due to the accurate rifle fire. This wasn't instant. They didn't see it on twitter. How rifling came about,

                What he said has been featured on sevrrsl documentaries and I remembrr me Highschool history teacher discussing as part of how technology affected tactics during the civil war.
                No people have not understood this forever.
                >nb4 you were only pretending to be retarded.

                was the ofgicial story taught for years. War had to change because of it, whether that was Napolean or the US civil war, idk.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I dunno, maybe making cannons is harder than rifles and maybe they are made in totally different ways out of completely different materials?
                Nah, that's crazy.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                HK and Molot makes their handguns and rifles out of the same material and rifling as well.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >it damn sure wouldn't have taken over 300 years to figure get the canon to work with it.
                yeah it did actually. with small arms you can simply hammer the lead ball down the bore, that doesn't work with an iron cannon ball. secondly, an unrifled cannonball retained better accuracy at range than an unrifled musket ball due to greater cross sectional density making them much less prone to knuckleballing, so there was less need for the accuracy provided by rifling until cannons went to elongated projectiles to improve penetration against armor - which capability wasn't needed until right about the time of the US Civil War, at which time you suddenly see breechloading rifled cannon being deployed against steel-armored ships and fortifications.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Were there no rifled culverins?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              That text is about cannons, not guns in general

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Dude, there were whole regiments of soldiers equipped with rifles even during the Napoleonic wars.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              smoothbore cannon is more accurate at distance than a rifled cannon when not using modern cartridges e.g. muzzleloading with wads and igniting with a flash pan

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Any images of rifled crossbows?

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    ?t=645

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This is pretty close to what I'm looking for. Other comments are far from useless though, getting a lot of information with all the new methods I'm being exposed to. Thank you.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Polygonal rifling best rifling, change my mind.
    Protip: you can't.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    My questions.
    1. Why does a rifled barrel give a spin to a smooth bullet? The bullet must be smaller in diameter in order to move in the barrel, So it will either not touch a wall at all, or touch 1 dashed (due to rifling gaps) line on 1 side and be reflected back and forth.
    2. The rifling creates large gaps between the bullet and the barrel wall where gasses can pass through, circumventing the bullet. It reduces the pushing pressure behind the bullet, increases the pressure in front of the bullet and thus decreases the acceleration of the bullet. Is this correct and why is this acceptable? Rifling grooves should be as shallow as possible for this reason but they are made to be deep on purpose, why?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The bullet squishes into the grooves. Bullets are made of soft metals, the barrel does not.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Are you saying that the bullet is larger than the barrel initially and is forced to deform to get through?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Not that guy but look at this image. See those rifling marks. That's where the bullet formed to the barrel. Typically it's a hair wider than the narrow part of the rifling but also the explosion can expand the diameter of the bullet a little.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Holy shit why not make the bullet in that shape in the first place and save the energy that it takes for the acceleration?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Now you have to line the grooves on the bullet with the rifling grooves for it to work properly.

              This is sort of what the Whitworth rifle did, using hexagonal bullets, and a twisting hexagonal barrel.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Because that would take precise alignment of the round before firing and the back pressure is useful for the decomposition of smokeless powders.

                Different rifling twists exist retard.
                I’m sure if you ran the numbers any energy loss created by friction would be negligible.

                You could make the entire cartridge, chamber and projectile triangular. It's not hard and people have made triangular cartridges to get more ammo in the magazine. The poors just can't afford it.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The dardick did that, in part. triangular casings with rounded bullets. It didn’t take off.
                As well as what benefit would the barrel/bullet being triangular be? What effect would it have on ballistics?
                Think about shit for a second

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I believe that is precisely what I described, yes.
                [...]
                Good troll or honest retard, can't tell. Having a non-circular pressure vessel is dumb because you get uneven deformation as it copes with the extremely high pressure. Or you could, you know, just use soft bullets that swage into the rifling.

                Op asked about making a bullet that was already formed to the barrel rifling. I'm just saying, you could pretty easily do that with a triangular cartridge, projectile and polyginal rifling. The benefit would mostly be that bullet wojld sound cool flying in the air. I didn't say it was a good idea. I'm saying it wouldn't be hard.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >triangular
                been done be fo

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Different rifling twists exist retard.
              I’m sure if you ran the numbers any energy loss created by friction would be negligible.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Because that would take precise alignment of the round before firing and the back pressure is useful for the decomposition of smokeless powders.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >why not make the bullet in that shape in the first place
              lining the bullet shape up with the grooves takes some fiddling. There were rifles that used this approach, the famous whitworth sniper rifle used polygonal rifling and polygonal bullets that had to be lined up with the rifling at the muzzle before ramming it down.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I believe that is precisely what I described, yes.

          [...]
          [...]
          You could make the entire cartridge, chamber and projectile triangular. It's not hard and people have made triangular cartridges to get more ammo in the magazine. The poors just can't afford it.

          Good troll or honest retard, can't tell. Having a non-circular pressure vessel is dumb because you get uneven deformation as it copes with the extremely high pressure. Or you could, you know, just use soft bullets that swage into the rifling.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Can't you just use one of those threading tools?

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Here, OP.

    There are other videos of other rifling machine systems on YouTube, just look for "rifling machine". This one is the classic way of doing cut rifling, though. The machine is extremely simple in concept; you could make one at home quite easily. For me the hardest part would be making the cutting tool, just because I've never made one and don't know how.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You take a pices of steel then cut grooves in it then roll it into a tube then weld it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      or just pour liquid steel into the mold of the desired barrel. the easiest and most efficient method.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >haha, behold my cast rifle barrel!
        >I am a genius!
        >how has nobody thought of this befo-ACK

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          steel is steel. why would it be weaker? how is the other steel bar that has a hole drilled through made differently?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Because it's formed from rods that were made via rolling which makes the crystal structure more fine, more resistant to dislocation motion and subsequently stronger.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Steel is steel
            No. No it fucking isn't. Stop posting ITT and go watch or read about steel immediately.
            Different working processes produce entirely different properties even with the same material, to say nothing of the wide variety of alloys out there. Even subtle changes in the carbon content produce vastly different properties.
            Also go look up what happened when Springfield thought 'steel was steel' and 1 in 10 1903s that left the factory had catastrophic failures.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              is steel
              >No. No it fucking isn't. Stop posting ITT and go watch or read about steel immediately.
              >Different working processes produce entirely different properties even with the same material, to say nothing of the wide variety of alloys out there. Even subtle changes in the carbon content produce vastly different properties.
              >Also go look up what happened when Springfield thought 'steel was steel' and 1 in 10 1903s that left the factory had catastrophic failures.

              I'd like to know more about this but

              55 88 11 88 C Z E C H E D

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                What a waste of digits. Oh well.
                The QRD is that Springfield used the Mk1 eyeball to determine their steel got hot enough. The problem is, the color of glowing hot steel changes based on ambient temperature. This resulted in a lot of guns being perfectly fine, but some guns, especially made at certain parts of the year, suffered catastrophic failures. Some dramatic, but most often receivers or barrels cracking.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Because Steel is weird. For one, there's maybe half a dozen mixes of carbon and iron with their own properties. You can then start mixing in other metals for even more interesting effects.

            THEN THERE IS HEAT TREATMENT. Heat up a piece of steel until it's red hot and then cool it down with water or oil and you'll cause the steel to seize up, making the metal incredibly hard but somewhat brittle. Let it cool down slowly and it'll return to normal. Heat it up just a little and cool it and it goes springy.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        2/3 of the steel strength comes from forging and heat treatment.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          (im thread op) What if someone were to take something like wrought iron, weak metal, cast it into a good barrel, then turn it into high carbon steel (by putting something like charcoal around and in the barrel then heating it up), then heat treating the whole thing. Would that still be unusable?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            If you have low quality metals, for example SAE 1010, you need a "build-up barrel" like the Armstrong guns. Very heavy tho.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            NTA, but even if you heat treat a cast barrel you're still missing out on the strength provided by forging. And by "forging" I don't mean picrel, I mean that the steel stock for the barrel is cold forged and the barrel button itself is forced through the barrel blank, both of which compress the grain structure of the metal which makes it significantly more resistant to breakage. It's arguably more important than carbon content and heat treating, since unlike those two methods forging makes an item objectively stronger.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >both of which compress the grain structure of the metal which makes it significantly more resistant to breakage
              On tonight's episode of "laughably incorrect fuddlore"...

              Unless the metal is outright porous when you begin forging ain't compacting shit. You'll need "neutron star gravity" amounts of force for that, or changing fundamental parameters of nature like the electron mass and Coloumb's constant.
              Now hardening on the other hand does change how compact the stacking of atoms is. And the really funny thing is that it decreases it. Yes, you read that right, hardened steel is less dense than unhardened steel. So the notion that compressing shit automatically makes it stronger, well, I guess it was kinda correct half a millennium ago when the bloomery furnace turned ore into what's essentially an iron sponge. But at that point what's in your pic will also do the trick, as will hot strip milling, folding, etc.
              Now what forging can do is to give you "texture effects" where the material gets stringer in some directions and weaker in others (no free lunch with these things). But if we harden things we overwrite the existing grain structure twice, so don't expect more of the as-forged structure to remain than after that than what remains of pre-columbian culture in Haiti.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Also, modern barrels are heat treated to relieve stress, so a lot of the strength from forged grain alignment is lost. The main reason the manufacturers forge barrels is because it's cheaper at scale. The barrel can be formed, rifled, and chambered all in a single process.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                what kind of forces are we taking about here, many metals are repeatedly heated to bend to shape like silver, gold, copper, brass, and if not reheated after each bend in the step, they'll become very brittle and snap in half due to the shear force being applied

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Work hardening is a thing.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's a thing, but it has absolutely nothing to do with any compression of the grain structure or anything like that. It's more that the metal deforms via the generation and movement of crystal lattice stacking faults, and as we keep deforming those get stuck in a big fucking traffic jam. It's also at least mostly gone if you heat treat to remove stress, carefully annihilated if you want to harden anything, and makes the metal more brittle.

                He said "compress the grain structure", not change the density of the metal.

                If you'd compress the atoms closer together, you increase the density.
                The grains meanwhile are fully in contact with each other at the start, so no way to bring them closer together.
                The grains can end up smaller, but that's because they're divided up, not because the same grains take up less room.
                So what exactly in your mind is it that this compression's supposed to do to the metal?

                Yes but they usually use something more sophisticated than wrought iron and coals. Working with DIY tools and setups means the process is troublesome. For example, the Krupp method involved blasting carbon vapor, not carbon dioxide but evaporated carbon, onto the steel surface. And we are talking a steel surface not just wrought iron.

                >Yes but they usually use something more sophisticated than wrought iron and coals.
                Case hardening has been used since antiquity. But yeah, the guy asking about shit on PrepHole ain't gonna make a good job of it.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >The grains can end up smaller, but that's because they're divided up, not because the same grains take up less room.
                Which was exactly my point. "Compress" probably wasn't the best word, but I understood what he meant.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                He said "compress the grain structure", not change the density of the metal.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Steel is not just steel. When the metal is cast and cools it forms large grains having the same crystal structure with weak boundary between the grains. Forging the cast metal refines the grains and makes the metal harder and tougher. Forged parts are generally much stronger than cast parts.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Tricky. Iron doesn't absorb carbon that well so you'd only get steel on the surface and not even high carbon steel. You'd also need to keep the barrels hot, covered in carbon, and away from oxygen for a long time.

            HOWEVER, there is preceedent with Cemented armor. The Harvey process involved keeping hot coals on a plate of armor to let the carbon diffuse in. The problem is that it takes 2-3 weeks.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Case hardening is a very common thing, anon.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Yes but they usually use something more sophisticated than wrought iron and coals. Working with DIY tools and setups means the process is troublesome. For example, the Krupp method involved blasting carbon vapor, not carbon dioxide but evaporated carbon, onto the steel surface. And we are talking a steel surface not just wrought iron.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Just twist a grooved tube. Ezpz

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Nobody sells some type of set of taps to cut these grooves?

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You usually have to get a specialty made chisel with a really long blade and apply a lot of skill

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    wait so you're literally scraping through the barrel using brute force?
    I thought there was some fancy way to do it by spinning with a drill or something

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    half of you morons are retarded

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    guys

    guys

    lets take a page out of the jet engine manufacturing playbook.

    single crystal cast steel barrels.

    is this the worst method you could think of to make a commodity rifled barrel?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Probably. New systems would have to be made to produce your barrels and they'd probably cost 200,000 bucks a pop.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >single crystal cast steel barrels.
      The kind of alloy and usage is very different. Turbine blades need the lowest creep possible at high temp. But steel is stronger with a correct grain structure and hardening.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Probably. New systems would have to be made to produce your barrels and they'd probably cost 200,000 bucks a pop.

      >3d printed barrels soon

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        don’t even need to do that, just buy some hardened pipes and print an ECM jig. Make apparently pretty good barrels in a bucket.

        >single crystal cast steel barrels.
        The kind of alloy and usage is very different. Turbine blades need the lowest creep possible at high temp. But steel is stronger with a correct grain structure and hardening.

        thinking about it even kind of seriously for a moment, a single crystal barrel could be hardned for wear pretty damn well. But like another anon said, $200,000 barrels. And honestly they probably wouldn’t be any better than cold hammer forged or ECM barrels. It’s why I added this to the end:
        > is this the worst method you could think of to make a commodity rifled barrel?

        But that being said someone who overpays for sunglasses and the gucciest of kit would probably buy one. The audiophiles of the gun world are underserved.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          If you're interested, someone made a barrel that entirely neutralizes barrel harmonics.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            neat. i am interested. sauce?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              https://i.imgur.com/MQlzVYc.jpg

              >long range precision single shot rifle with revolving .357 or .44 combo barrels
              Oh lordy, what a retardedly based idea.

              oh my god these things are fucking stupid. Do people actually buy these? Cause if so the single crystal barrel might not be the completely dumbest modification someone could make, even if it is in rare company

              >Verification not required.

              Sort of. You can send in a blank to get machined, you still have to do chambering, finishing, and installing.
              Still, they boast 3/8MOA.
              Brought to you by the same autists that made the periscope for your scope.
              https://tacomhq.com/

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >long range precision single shot rifle with revolving .357 or .44 combo barrels
            Oh lordy, what a retardedly based idea.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            oh my god these things are fucking stupid. Do people actually buy these? Cause if so the single crystal barrel might not be the completely dumbest modification someone could make, even if it is in rare company

            >Verification not required.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >neutralizes barrel harmonics
            what does that mean?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              When a bullet travels through a barrel, it makes the barrel vibrate. For a hyperbolic example, imagine floppy wiener.
              That barrel comes very close to making that not happen. The result is a remarkably consistently-shooting barrel that can, at least locked down on a sled, sling 3" groups at a thousand yards.

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I visited the Sako factory and saw all the steps to do a rifle. Making the rifling was the most interesting part, basically they just insert a tapered rod with the rifling pattern and hammer it from the outside to squeeze it through the barrel

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Sounds like the hammer forged method. Good for decent barrels made quickly.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, that's called cold hammer forging. It's the cheapest way to rifle a barrel because it only takes one step, saving time. That's why manufacturers love it.

      It also work hardens steal but so does button rifling which gives a more consistent bore.

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's just a specialized lathe setup, anon.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      We actually stopped using the lathe method almost a century ago. It took too long and the end result was iffy.

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