AUG or Helllion? Leaning towards the Aug. Posted on May 6, 2023 by PrepHole Contributor AUG or Helllion? Leaning towards the Aug.
first off, dont call it a Hellion.
second, do you want it for shooting at a bench or actually protecting yourself?
Liar none of you fags are protecting yourself we all know you just want a cool toy
That's one reason, sure, but bullpups make for good backpack guns, especially AUG.
Why the fuck would I ever keep a gun in a backpack
AUG for sure. Fun to shoot, reliable and aesthetic. Ratworx trigger is worth picking up too.
why does he do that sidemouth thing
wat iz dat?
per the actual words of BlackRain's manager to me vaporware. Its non-functioning prototype some seal cobbled together
aug, it's easier to swap barrels, and cooler.
atleast the aug comes with a foregrip and makes people at the range go crazy, not the hellion
>easier to swap barrels
>barrels are 700+ dollars
Also get the Aug
>streamlight on a p90
Nothing wrong with streamlight.
VHS is better for off shoulder shooting. I don’t think either would be a mistake tbdesu. You should make the decision based on which gun you think looks cooler and has a cooler history. Not even memeing
>You should make the decision based on which gun you think looks cooler and has a cooler history
This, always. Get the gun you think you'll love more, screw the opinions of others.
Well, only so long as their both good guns that fit your use case lmao
This. Get the one that speaks to you. You’ll shoot a gun you like more than one you settled on.
AUG if you are only gonna get one.
>fake ps90 with fake can
Cooler than your 10/22
AUG, it's cooler
t. Heckion enjoyer
What's it like owning a pet squirrel?
Pretty easy, it's like a cat but it can climb all the way up and down your body. He's pretty hyperactive, but that's normal. Really likes human attention
You haven't met my cat.
Cute! What's she named?
Anon, look at how dirty his walls are. What do you think owning a tree rat is like?
A $400 AR and 3000 rounds of ammo for it.
>BCA rifle and random reman ammo
Sometimes quality really beats quantity
I'd be more worried about the dude with the PSA rifle who has put several ammo cans of 5.56 through it than the dude with the gucci rifle but hasn't even put 1 box through because of how broke he is after buying the gucci rifle.
I would too, but the odds of finding that PSA guy are very low. I say this as a PSA fan who regularly shoots his M16A4gery
Anyone buying a complete PSA rifle is doing so out of financial necessity. The guy that can afford 3k rounds of quality ammo already has a quality rifle to put them through
I blast through a couple thousand rounds of .223 a year with a PSA premium AR, I have an EOTech + magnifier combo on the rifle that's worth more than the gun. I know the type that buys cheap but in reality there is a difference between cheap(or expensive) and value, just because a rifle may be more affordable doesn't really mean there is a practical difference for most people between a BCM or DD and a PSA. The barrel in the rifle is a good barrel, it's an FN CHF AISI 4150 barrel with chrome lining, don't think I'll ever be able to shoot out in my lifetime at this rate.
I'd do exactly what I did again in a heartbeat, get a cheaper rifle that offers a designated set of requirements, upgrade a few parts like the trigger with an affordable match grade and a really nice optic, makes more practical sense than spending 2k on just the rifle.
>I'd do exactly what I did again in a heartbeat, get a cheaper rifle that offers a designated set of requirements, upgrade a few parts like the trigger with an affordable match grade and a really nice optic, makes more practical sense than spending 2k on just the rifle.
I'm happy that worked out for you. For me, the AR is so bland and uninspiring that shooting it felt like a second job that cost me money; the AUG, on the other hand, motivates me to take it out to the range and achieve and maintain a high level of proficiency with it, so even though it cost more than your rifle and optics combined, it was worth every penny to me.
Glad to hear, I'm not arguing against the AUG necessarily, just that most people that shoot don't need an expensive firearm whatever design it may be. I really have a bone against "high-tier" ARs (partially because I dont think they are a good value), at a 2k pricepoint get something more unique like an AUG, a PS90, or a Tavor. I personally as a collector and enthusiast will probably buy each of those firearms someday.
AUG, the hellion trigger is awful, even for a bullpup
Is there any way to buy an AUG that comes with a 20" barrel? I only see options for buying a 16" barreled one and then having to buy the 20" barrel separately.
The 40th anniversary edition came with a 20" barrel but you might not be able to find one in current year and you might not want the other "features" of the 40th anniversary edition.
t. 40th anniversary edition AUG enjoyer
yeah by making like a tree and stop being a poor fag
Give AUG functional but wonky ergos
Hold my beer
Unironically watch the nutnfancy on the hellion
>almost 1h of schizoid rambling
I would listen but I want to roundhouse kick him to the moon whenever he eats the mic like a retard
>spends the first ten minutes complaining he didn't get a free review gun
>what is skipping ahead?
That fat, irrelevant retard hates anything that isn't a $400 AR.
w2c green aug?
The Hellion is better than the Aug in every single way
>takes AR mags
>is suppressor ready
>can swap shoulders with it any time
Only reason to buy the Aug is if you just absolutely love it and you wouldn't be asking this question if that was the case.
>really good built in BUIS
>Optic rail is already at a great height for NV use
Though I will concede the AUG has the classic future rifle look going for it. Plus it's a proven design that's stuck around for more than 40 years. While the VHS is based off proven designs and mechanisms, it just doesn't have the track record the AUG has. Also no aftermarket
Too long to even longer
>really good built in BUIS
That is covered up by an optic. The future is now old man.
Go away Ian
>Optic rail is already at a great height for NV use
So is AUG. VHS handguard won't hold zero.
AUG is already perfection, and can be used with mittens without the use of a Dremel.
>can swap shoulders with it any time
Brass deflector muh dude
Okay, manlet. Do you think that extra long top rail is only there for optics?
Neither does Steyr, they only offer nitride too. Granted you can buy a spare barrel from them
>Granted you can buy a spare barrel from them
And install it yourself without tools in under a minute.
Steyr USA barrels are chrome-lined now, they're CHF'd at FN USA's plant on imported Steyr mandrels
t. 2023 production AUG owner
Very cool, where did you buy yours? Please post link.
Source or pics? Everything and everyone I've seen online are saying they are still nitrided and aren't chromed lined.
>Too long to even longer
AUG all day long. Hellion isn't bad but it could have been better
what, from 2 feet to 3 feet?
The only thing that is keeping me from buying a hellion is the nitrided barrel. If I shoot that thing out after 6-7k rounds like most nitrided barrels, I can't just put jn a new one, I have buy a whole new fixking hellion because springfied doesn't sell spare barrels.
Hammer forged nitride =/= cheap ass PSA nitride. IDK what the quality of HS Produkt's process is, but the Steyr and Sig Sauer CHF nitride/melanite last almost as long as chrome outside of full auto applications.
Bruh the shortest LOP is almost 3" more than an A2 stock, and an 1.5" longer than the AUG.
VHS has a cold hammer-forged barrel coated in melonite.
VHS-2 Barrel Removal:
I would just love to know how that stacks up against chrome lining. I feel like they went with nitriding because it was less expensive so fuck the customer.
nitriding is often used on barrels that will be fired frequently or exposed to harsh conditions. chrome lining is not as exact since they have to 'cut' the barrel oversize then add the chrome lining. cold forged barrel without 'cutting' has an exceptional dimensional accuracy, better surface quality and mechanical properties because of undistrupted crystal grain flow.
Well that's partially it, another element to consider is that unlike chrome lining which adds material to the bore, nitiriding doesn't leave behind nearly as much material. What this means is potentially greater accuracy, much like button rifling its commonly seen on precision rifles but people talk down about it like its an inferior barrel to CHF CL
Nitride is superior to chrome outside of full auto.
More expensive doesn't always mean better namefag.
Nogunz here. VHS2 is my dream weapon. I dream to own one someday.
Good fucking luck though in pic-related
Seems like Malta is pretty chill about guns compared to much of the EU. Any reason the VHS isn't kosher?
The EU's nature, beaches, etc. is fucking gorgeous and I dream about visiting Scandinavia to see my ancestors' lands, but the antigun pinkos really did subvert most of it.
What's that map supposed to show? I can buy one no problem and I live in an orange country.
You have to pump those numbers up
I have a VHS (the "Hellion" model of the VHS is officially designated VHS-K3 by the factory and on import paperwork so it is still called a VHS) and really like it. But I don't think an AUG would ever become a limiting factor for you either. You can get whichever you happen to like more and have a perfectly capable rifle regardless.
Not OP, but I was hoping that this was true. I love the kino aesthetics and quick change barrel of the AUG, but I do recognize the utility of the adjustable gas system and full ambi controls of the VHS2. I just want an AUG and am willing to train to the point where I can overcome the inherent drawbacks of the AUG compared to an AR.
>the inherent drawbacks of the AUG compared to an AR
Like? Many, if not most, ARs don't have ambi controls either and most so called "drawbacks" are just "I learned to shoot on an AR so learning dramatically different ergos now is hard". Maybe somewhat less suppressable out of the box, but you can get parts that lessen that issue. Everything else I can think of is just going to be putting your hours of training in on an AUG instead of an AR.
Yes, the only drawbacks vs AR pattern for any decent bullpup is different manual of arms. Which, in fairness, isn't nothing for those experienced, if you've got literally decades-plural of muscle memory built up that's of real value and non-trivial to change. But for someone starting out fresh it's a non-issue by definition, they have no muscle memory and will have to train either way.
Hellion. Aug isn't a great suppressor platform even with the plug you can now get, though better than nothing by a long shot. Aug (and X95) does have more aftermarket though, so while base model is an eh trigger and so on, that's just something you can change. Hellion will probably start to have more of that this and next year but not yet, at least last I checked.
Both of them, and the X95, are solid quality guns though and I think you'd be happy either way IMO. The other two top bullpup options have their own strengths, but unfortunately haven't proved as reliable yet.
>tfw the MDR never gets brought up in bullpup threads because its the 'soulless' option.
That's not why, and I've never once heard that complaint. I love my MDRXs, they're great guns, and ambitious in design. They can do things that no other bullpup can.
But the quality control issue, while improved in the last year, has been very, very real. They made a fundamental blunder that other manufacturers have in terms of outsourcing key production and then just repeatedly not being able to get things consistent. So if you end up with a great gun you're set, but if you don't it's a pain. I will say their warranty has been the real deal for me, I used it earlier this year, they gave me zero BS and paid shipping both ways and fixed it in a couple of weeks, over a holiday, and did some upgrades while they were at it. Can't say fairer than that. But that doesn't change the fact that my second MDR broke AFTER ONE SHOT. Whereas the first is chugging along after thousands. That's way more rolling of the dice than most people want to deal with, and reasonably so.
Also, the fixed gas block + rail section is a fundamentally stupid decision that hurts its accuracy and flexibility. It can do 1-2 moa (technically it can maybe do sub-moa but in actuality not really) with handloads or careful ammo testing, but that's not impressive for such a super expensive gun. Not that other reliable bullpups tend to have brilliant accuracy either, but they're at least reliable.
Anyway, again I do love mine, but for someone like OP getting a gun and clearly not wanting a project gun but a general reliable rifle no one brings up the MDR because I think it just doesn't fit that yet. MDR is well worth it in some cases but OP didn't specify any of those.
>AFTER ONE SHOT
Yep. Got one, dead reliable, and friend actually had original MDR not the improved v2 (though he did get the basic free upgrade kit) and no issues over like 8000 rounds now. So got a second (admittedly it was off of shekelbroker during end of coof, probably should have just ordered direct and waited but I was impatient), and yeah, fired once, lolded.
And now it's fine, and for free (and not "free" as I've had with other manufacturers where I had to pay out the ass for shipping), but that did mean another ~3 weeks wait. And like, woof, breaks instantly out of the box? Come on.
I think they've got something of a bathtub curve, where if it's fine for 500 shots it'll be fine for 5000 shots. But if it's a trouble gun I've heard of people having lots of trouble. That's what you get for asking poos to MIM some key stuff without having godly megacorp-level foreign QA on the ground (or pay the money to do it right). Unironic damn shame though.
>It's probably my favorite rifle to use, and if their QC was perfect it'd be my favorite platform and I'd have at least one more in .308 and probably a micron on top of that
Fucking this, it's frustrating because it's such a joy. Great oob trigger, great balance, great feel, 6pos gas block, incredible adaptability (want a bullpup in 350 legend or 450 bushmaster even? MDR can do that). It's so fucking CLOSE to being a godly gun. But it's not.
Also here's my sillier goofy build one just to see some of the fun one can have.
I had one and straight from the case I could use the mag release, I sent it to them which they did not reimburse kek and was told somehow a spring wasn't right and they replaced it, I get the rifle back and it's the exact same and would kind of "catch" and "clunk" into place and still barely release the mag. I got rid of it. This was 2019, no clue if they've improved but I was very bummed out having paid MSRP for what I thought was the gen 2 space gun with all the issues resolved.
>This was 2019, no clue if they've improved
They've improved a ton, seriously. Not enough to be a recommendation, but 4 years is a significant amount of time. They've made tons of major design changes, 2019 would actually before the MDRX at all (which is what we're talking about), it'd be the original MDR. They also did a big apology video for failing to scale customer support up from "early garage startup" level early last year, and so far the improvements on that front seem real as well.
>the gen 2 space gun
That was gen1 tho.
I mean shit, it's definitely kind of strange to be writing "yeah it's worthy of lots of criticism but not those old ones" I guess. But I do want companies to improve over time and have that acknowledged even if they have further to go yet. I don't blame you though for writing it off yourself after that experience.
I just checked my email and it was actually 2020 that I contacted them for service, because it definitely was a MDRX. I would like to give them another shot but I think it's better suited in the VHS-1 price range given my extremely limited experience.
Even then MDRX has also had a lot of revisions since then. They just did a new and improved gas block this past shot show for example which is standard on all ones going forward. Even so
>I would like to give them another shot
Look in 2024 maybe. They need to bring stuff in house or switch to some good US manufacturers or something, float the block, maybe partner with ES as a buy time option, and do a full new revision, and "MDR3" or whatever they call it. Until then unless you want a Micron or specific cartridge feature not worth it.
>but I think it's better suited in the VHS-1 price range
This I don't agree with though. Making gun that has QC issues cheaper is just a bandaid at best. They don't need to drop the price, they need to fix the gun. Hell if they raised the price another $500 but eliminated 100% of all outsourcing, everything forged/CNC in America and turned it into a reliably sub-moa rifle, I'd be instantly all over that.
Mine has been fucking excellent from the beginning, but I still don't recommend them to other people because of cases like
It's probably my favorite rifle to use, and if their QC was perfect it'd be my favorite platform and I'd have at least one more in .308 and probably a micron on top of that. But it's fucking gambling on getting a good one and I don't really want to go through more coin flips on getting a decent rifle or to recommend that anyone else does.
Not because soulless, but because no military pedigree.
Has anybody tried to use a LAM mounted on the hellion's upper picrail? I want to mount a MAWL on it and I think I should be able to to just extend my thumb up a little bit to hit the buttons based upon the way I see people gripping the handguard in pictures.
Yep, works fine though I need to shift my grip to press the fire button. MAWLs are a different layout so it should probably work better for you
Didn't the hellion beat the famas in the weapon trials the french were doing when the AR placed first?
Deciding between a kac 3-prong or a surefire sfp3 3-prong for my flash hider for an AUG. Which one? I think I want the new kac PRT suppressor that's coming out next year, so maybe the kac FH, but I want to make sure that the flash suppression on the flash hider itself is good enough.
Any 3-prong flash hider is going to reduce flash to a level barely detectable with NODs; get whichever one mounts the suppressor you want.
If you're waiting for cans that might be coming out next year, keep in mind that Surefire recently submitted a patent for a semi-flowthrough baffle stack that's probably going to be the basis for a new SOCOM556 revision.
Even though the VHS looks better and more modern, I guess its just better to just get the AUG, there's a reason why these have been still being manufactured, now if only the AUG could take Pmags with no issues, it would be the perfect bullpup
I can't image it's that difficult to make a drop-in mag release for the nato stock.
>if only the AUG could take Pmags with no issues
VHS-2, ergos are more comparable in terms of shittiness than anything. Both are kinda garbage but serviceable. You dont see a meaningful power gap until you hit the tavor, then theres the massive gap between that and traditional layout ARs. Accuracy edge goes to VHS, not that either one is inaccurate enough to be a concern. Reliability is a wash, both are great and well proven designs. Most other feature differences are memery, but for an actual defensive tool the VHS is notably easier/ergonomic for mounting a WML which is IMO kinda a big deal. I care a lot more about easy and good WML manipulation than shaving .1s off a reload. VHS is also the better suppressor host of the two which is nice.
Overall i think the VHS is the better defensive weapon, Augs are cool AF though and plenty good enough for that role as well. More interesting question would be Tavor vs VHS, fewer fanboys and "muh sovl" arguments.
Well in that case it's no contest, VHS all the way. The garden gnomepup doesn't have much going for it. Actually handled both of them side by side when I was shopping for a bullpup and in comparison to the VHS
>trigger is worse
>bolt handle is slightly better placed
>bolt release is a lot better but I feel it could be accidentally activated if you went prone
>selector is slightly better placed
>grips weren't notably different
>LOP felt somewhat short for me (I'm probably one of like ten people that extend the VHS stock for comfort, definitely a me issue)
>lots more rail real estate (which is mostly pointless weight in my eyes since you only really need 1 section of sturdy rail for a LAM)
>no adjustable gas settings
>no built in BUIS
>not easily swapped to the left side (again a big deal for me since I'm a southpaw)
And unlike the SAR, the X95 is just plain ugly in my eyes. SAR looks futuristic in a cool, "one day we'll carry these puppies on the moon base" way where the X95 looks futuristic in a grim "you will own nothing and be happy" way. At least the VHS lets me simultaneously cope about never being able to own a real G36 (Converted SL8s just aren't good enough for me) and a FAMAS
Irrelevant since you can get a superb one from Geissele. VHS has zilch aftermarket for now, just as with the AR having market options is a legit strength imo.
>no built in BUIS
Speaking of pointless weight.
>no adjustable gas settings
This though is a big one. Granted flow through cans keep improving but it's still an issue.
Other anons have said though that the Tavor 7 is quite interesting, but I haven't gotten to shoot it vs MDRX or RFB. It actually does a 3pos agb+off. Though I'd accept an argument that 30cal is a different class of gun.
>The garden gnomepup doesn't have much going for it.
It's the shortest bullpup currently available, especially if you run the 16" barrel and thin buttpad and nobody notices.
>never being able to own a real G36 (Converted SL8s just aren't good enough for me)
Could you put that at the beginning next time so I don't have to read your opinion like it means anything?
both, and a ps90 sbr
t. owner of all 3
Has anybody used the cantilever forend for the AUG? It looks great and adds a good amount of rail space, but you can't change the barrel without removing the mlok section. If I removed the standard vertical grip, I could just attach am angled foregrip for kino looks and better ergos and have a free floated barrel which might improve accuracy.
ARID Engineering is working on a A3M1 top rail that was intended to drop Q1 2023 and a cantilever handguard that retains the barrel QD that'll be out when it's done, so unless you need to mount a LPVO and MFAL at the same time Right Now I'd wait and see what they come up with.
Cool, will do. I don't even have nods yet.
The VHS-2 has much better ergonomics and has significantly better ambidextrous features such as being able to change ejection sides.
>better ambidextrous features
Am I the only person here who has never been impressed by ambi? I get that lefties might appreciate it.
everything has to be ambi because it's optimal to shoot wrong-handed around 50% of corners so you can expose 40% of your torso instead of 60%
Maybe, but if you put any one of many aftermarket brass deflectors on the AUG then you don't have to worry about brass in the face when shooting from the other shoulder.
>such as being able to change ejection sides.
The AUG has a lefty bolt available and multiple designs of case deflectors for either side.
Yeah but that's a separate purchase. The VHS can go either way right out of the box. Same thing with suppressors, you can get a gas plug for the AUG but the VHS can do that without paying extra for new parts
As much as I get tired of explaining over and over that the AUG has lefty bolts, case deflectors, the suppressor gas plug, 1/2×28 threads, and lighter FCG springs and adjustable takeup on the trigger, the reality is most people who buy an AUG aren't going to take advantage of all those value-adds anyway, and neither will most VHS-3 owners even though they come free with the gun.
I think the problem with case deflectors for the Aug is that even if they do help a little it doesn't completely fix the issue of someone eating brass even with the deflector unless they hold it in a very awkward way while most other bullpups have fixed the issue by having ejection be through the bottom of the gun or through forward ejection or making the LOP long enough and the ejection port deep enough where it usually isn't an issue.
damn this is a long ass thread full of people with strong opinions but owning none of the thingss they post about
why would anyone LARP as someone who fell for the bullpoop meme
Enjoy your shit velocity from your manlet barrel.
>thread is full of superior people who do own bullpups
>the seething arvirgin projects her inadequacies
many such cases
I'll be buying a Hellion because I like everything about it, but mostly for the Helghast LARP.
Helghast larp is just dollar store Kerberos Panzer Cop larp
Pretty sure it was directly inspired by it, aesthetically speaking.
AUG has better trigger selection+ better upgrades so go with the aug, or both
>putting a polish $30 surp mag in a croation $1600 surp gun
Closest you'll ever get to a bullpup GROT, anon.
VHS/hellion is currently the best 5.56 bullpup you can get right now but there are some promising ones coming out in the future like the Senex bullpup which has the ergonomics of the x-95 (best ergos on the market right now) but none of the accuracy and suppressor issues it has. AUG is unfortunately extremely outdated and the support Steyr gives to it is minimal.
>Buying a 5.56 rifle that isn't an AR-15
Humans have this thing called "personal taste". Have you never purchased something that was less than the absolute "meta" in its category simply because you thought it was cool?
Men of action prefer the AUG.
AUG is combat proven in Afghanistan and Iraq.
so is VHS 2 i
So is VHS2 and X95. Though "combat proven" is a larp meme anyway.
Shooting Palestinian children is considered combat now?
The bullpup appreciator in me wants to argue, the antisemite in me laughs and agrees.
Does anyone make a 1:7 twist aug barrel?
There was a small batch made a few years ago, but I wouldn't worry about 1:7 for the AUG. You can just use mk318 (62gr OTM) instead of mk262. Mk318 is better anyway.
Helion stock looks like it was generated by a retarded AI, absolutely disgusting
Post your 16"-barrel, pencil-profile, full-length mlok bullshit.
Anyone know someone who can flute and AUG barrel?
I know a guy who can oboe one. I have no idea how he does it and I'm too afraid to ask
There's a German company that could bassoon it for you, but they won't work on barrels shipped from America because they're a bunch of fagotts
I watched a few YouTube videos on barrel fluting and it looks neat. I might buy milling machine this year and do it for funzies.
What about X95 vs Hellion
X95 looks cooler, is shorter for any given bbl length, and has a Geissele trigger pack available vs VHS3 looks cooler, isn't made by ~~*them*~~, is more mechanically accurate and suppressor-ready
Neither is as good as an AUG, even if you're married to a heap of STANAGs, but between the two it comes down to your priorities, really
>Neither is as good as an AUG
What makes the AUG better than the VHS2 though? The only benefit I can see is that the AUG has kino looks (although the A3M1 doesn't look as good as the A1) and a better aftermarket (although all of the aftermarket stuff is overpriced garbage made by redditors). As other anons have explained, the VHS2 is fully ambi, is a vastly better suppressor host, takes stanag mags and you don't have to spend another $800 on aftermarket reddit shit to modernize it.
The VHS3 being reversible without extra parts only matters if you're a lefty, it being compatible with high-backpressure 5.56 cans out of the box only matters if you only have one suppressor and it meets that description and you weren't planning on ever buying another can again (bullshit), "but does it take AR mags" is the "does it take Glock mags" of the 5.56 world and is just as asinine for all the same reasons, and it requires no aftermarket parts, Reddit or otherwise, to be as modern as you could ever reasonably want.