>B-but muh kinzels. Muh hypersonic. 🙁
Buttt, ehhh
What happens to all those hypersonics?
I don't see them use these for a year now
They still fear the Patriot?
They can be fired from HIMARS which takes some pressure off their small fleet of Su-24s, and they can carry significantly larger payloads. There are also DPICM variants that will make TUNGSTEN RAIN look like a popgun.
Fired from HIMARs/M270. There's significantly more ATACMs stockpiles than SCALP/Shadow, IIRC close to 4k were built. As the other poster mentioned the cruise missiles are fired from SU-24s, which is a more expensive and limited asset. The real sinister capability is the complex attacks it allows Ukraine to do. They'd fire shadows/scalps and drones at high value targets, throw some MALDs in if they still have them, then fire a barrage of ATACMs. All the panic goes to focusing on inbound SRBMs which significantly improves the survivability of drones and cruise missiles.
Just for any other retards, anon, if you right click on google maps there will be an option for "MEASURE DISTANCE" which will then give you point to point between wherever you'd like.
1. tactical ballistic missile fired from MLRS rather than having to be fired from the over worked and falling apart MiGs.
2. 300km range. This is more than what HIMARS and M270 are currently firing.
3. They can work in tandom with storm shadows and HIMARS.
4. They can put less stress on HIMAR for long range targets, and and keep putting pressure as counter battery which is more what it's supposed to do.
[...]
I actually don't know.
the distance from the center of Orikhiv (just north of current offensive starting point) to the far end of the crimean bridge is only 270 km in a straight line.
1. tactical ballistic missile fired from MLRS rather than having to be fired from the over worked and falling apart MiGs.
2. 300km range. This is more than what HIMARS and M270 are currently firing.
3. They can work in tandom with storm shadows and HIMARS.
4. They can put less stress on HIMAR for long range targets, and and keep putting pressure as counter battery which is more what it's supposed to do.
[...]
I actually don't know.
[...]
the distance from the center of Orikhiv (just north of current offensive starting point) to the far end of the crimean bridge is only 270 km in a straight line.
Depends on the variant, the oldest M39 will not. I believe around 2000 of these were made. Carried submunitions but the range was 150-175km. The newer versions are lower in supply. There were maybe 600 M57s. Ukraine isn't likely to receive M57s or E1s, M48s were produced is very small numbers which leaves only the M39 and M39A1, the A1 being able to hit Kerch from Orikhiv like the third anon in the replies stated. There were below 700 rounds of M39A1 total IIRC
Nevermind I looked at the 2024 weapons program PDF. PRSM is in production, they got 54 in 2022, 42 in 2023, and 110 are planned for 2024. Ukraine could likely get the more advanced versions provided they can fire them, for sure from M142s but maybe not from some of the 270s that have been donated.
Nevermind I looked at the 2024 weapons program PDF. PRSM is in production, they got 54 in 2022, 42 in 2023, and 110 are planned for 2024. Ukraine could likely get the more advanced versions provided they can fire them, for sure from M142s but maybe not from some of the 270s that have been donated.
>A surprising discovery could also ease the administration's choice to send the weapons: The U.S. has found it has more ATACMS in its inventory than originally assessed, the two officials told ABC News. >The serviceability of the rediscovered stockpile is not yet clear, nor which specific type of missiles it contains. ATACMS come in several forms, from missiles with large high-explosive warheads, to anti-personnel cluster-munition versions that drop hundreds of bomblets on targets.
Don't sweat about the numbers for the actual specific models. Apparently we may have a warehouse full of ATACMS somewhere that was filed into the wrong cabinet and they found it during an inventory recount.
lol this is just the military revealing some of their hidden strategic stuff to swing the public opinion towards sending more stuff, they are full of toys that we don't know about that they keep in secret for strategic reasons
People are smart and groups are incredibly stupid. The bureaucracy involved can be incredibly retarded but on the edge of function. The US military trades inefficiency for effectiveness while Russia just goes full retard and embezzles.
>it turns out all the trillions we assumed were going into bizarre black books projects really were just going into the production of an insane amount of equipment >so much the US govt stored it and forgets similar to how a squirrel hides acorns >all we need to do to find an entire arsenal is look under the rub in a few warehouses Uncle Sam forgot about a decade ago
it was probably some shit as simple as someone forgetting to accept the arrival of a purchase order in an inventory system so the inventory didn't update the total
>how do you miscount ballistic fucking missiles?
Well, talent only takes you so far. If you have a solid base talent, then it also takes years of dedication. It's not for everyone.
it was probably some shit as simple as someone forgetting to accept the arrival of a purchase order in an inventory system so the inventory didn't update the total
but also
government workers, man.
this. Have you ever sat around in a DMV? Imagine those types of slow ass nearly senile braindead workers slowly signing paperwork and scanning a smudged up, water damaged BEST AVAILABLE COPY into the database before another one of them updates the digital database and all of this is done in triplicate. Meanwhile the forklift certified chad has already moved the ATACMS pallets and done his paperwork already in the air conditioned bunker warehouse in the middle of Nevada or something.
A cardboard drone could reach the Crimean bridge. It's been 2 years the Ukies could have built a Paris gun and shelled the Crimean bridge if they wanted to.
Yea, the thing is ATACMS way cheaper and they'll be getting them in larger quantities. Have fun having to keep your ammo dumps and command centers 300km from the front line to avoid them getting blasted to fuck on a weekly basis
Hey, for some people it's not an either/or decision, Anon. Just make sure that your slutty little side piece doesn't find out about your LTR with the aircraft.
>Every day we get closer to the possibility our children will be able to grow up in a world with no Russia.
Like real talk? My ideal world is:
>Japan recaptures the Kuril islands and then some >Russia split into Moscovite Republic (St. Petesburg and Moscow) >Siberian Republic >Chechnya >any number of central asian republics
the tiny little ethnic minorities might actually thrive on their own with proper administration, and ties to EU.
They tend to deny shit right up until they send it in. It's possible that SCALP/Storm Shadow reserves are getting low. There were less than 1000 made and the UK and France can't sacrifice hundreds and hundreds without compromising their contingencies. It's one of the reasons Taurus was pushed for, since Germany had like 400 just sitting.
My schizo theory personally is something has changed with Iran. Back in the day there was threat of Iranian SRBMs and MRBMs being sent to Russia. I believe we held back ATACMs as leverage, Russia and Iran agreed to chill if we agreed not to provide advanced strike weapons, at the time it was probably okay because Russian cruise missile/SRBM reserves were much higher (before surovikin's chimp out) and shasneeds were the hot thing. I think it signals something good happened between the US/Iran negotiations that we have an understanding these will be sent and Iran will not provide the same to Russia because were scratching their backs, or Iran will provide them and no agreement could be made so were saying fuck it. No evidence to that, just my own theories. More realistically the US was just genuinely not trying to escalate and fearful of starting a wider war, even if we'd skullfuck russia it would be a headache regardless.
>[Western country] denies sending [Western equipment] to Ukraine >Russians celebrate >[denied Western equipment] ends up in Ukraine >Russians seethe
I like it.
>It could also be that the Ukrainians
are planning a sustained offensive into and throughout the Winter. These will be handy little toys to deliver to vatniks before and during Christmas. Ho Ho Ho.
Yeah I was wrong about how many were made, but I'm not sure that's actually how many the bongs got. The oldest article that references that number is from 1994 >The most revolutionary new order is the pounds 650m for 700-1,000 new Conventionally Armed Stand-Off Missiles (CASOMs) for the RAF. >https://www.independent.co.uk/news/thousands-of-jobs-shielded-by-new-military-spending-1338648.html
650m just doesn't math for than many rounds, with storm shadows costing 2.5-3 million even accounting for inflation that barely clears 500 missiles and idk if that figure was to include operating costs too. I'd be good if it's true though but I'd expect the cost to be a lot higher.
[...] >A surprising discovery could also ease the administration's choice to send the weapons: The U.S. has found it has more ATACMS in its inventory than originally assessed, the two officials told ABC News. >The serviceability of the rediscovered stockpile is not yet clear, nor which specific type of missiles it contains. ATACMS come in several forms, from missiles with large high-explosive warheads, to anti-personnel cluster-munition versions that drop hundreds of bomblets on targets.
Don't sweat about the numbers for the actual specific models. Apparently we may have a warehouse full of ATACMS somewhere that was filed into the wrong cabinet and they found it during an inventory recount.
lol this is just the military revealing some of their hidden strategic stuff to swing the public opinion towards sending more stuff, they are full of toys that we don't know about that they keep in secret for strategic reasons
People are smart and groups are incredibly stupid. The bureaucracy involved can be incredibly retarded but on the edge of function. The US military trades inefficiency for effectiveness while Russia just goes full retard and embezzles.
I think it's more that the us is probably operating under better to have under-counted equipment than overcounting and coming up short when critical
There are apparently multiple factions within the US government, some of which are terrified of escalation (noooooks), and some of which aren't. So, DC-watching can be a bit like Kremlin-watching back in the day.
Supposedly the US cut a deal with China not to give Ukraine certain weapons if China stayed out of the war, either the US caught China helping Russia, or something else changed.
>A surprising discovery could also ease the administration's choice to send the weapons: The U.S. has found it has more ATACMS in its inventory than originally assessed, the two officials told ABC News.
>"Sir, we moved the fridge in the breakroom and discovered 300 unaccounted for ballistic missiles" >"We also found another $1,000,000,000,000 bill in the coffee machine. Apparently Johnny from accounting tried using it to buy a cappuccino."
That could be a great sitcom.
Gaslight: "uh guys our own stocks are so low that we couldnt possibly spare any and anyway you dont actually need them and never have"
Gatekeep: "this is an advanced weapon you mongrels can't be trusted with because you'll fire it into Russia"
Girlboss: "uh so we were cleaning up and found this bunch of operational fires under the couch"
Outside of just losing them in the depths of the bureaucracy, I reckon it's possible that they're just taking into account the fact that a lot of ATACMS are rigged for cluster munitions, and they're now allowed to send those...
When said out loud ATACMS sounds like the plural of an "attack 'um". What is an "attack 'um"? idfk, cant america start giving normal names to things instead of these goofy acronyms
In theory, this IS russian air defense were talking about, I remember that S-400 in Crimea got filmed being hit while the drone was just casually orbiting it.
In theory, this IS russian air defense were talking about, I remember that S-400 in Crimea got filmed being hit while the drone was just casually orbiting it.
Yes, and Ukraine keeps hitting and taking out S-400's. Each time it degrades the Russian air defenses that much more.
Russia isn't man enough to use nukes, or declare war on the west. Sad tbh
They literally do not have the ability for mass saturation of both Europe and USA to make a first strike plausible for them since it would immediately result in their deaths.
No amount of nukes would be enough, because every nuke in the NATO arsenal would already be launched before the first Russian nuke reached its target. That's the whole point of Mutually Assured Destruction.
The bridge is certainly within range of ATACMS even when launching well behind the frontline. Question is whether the Ukrainians go all in to take out the bridge.
HIMARS can only put out 1 missile at a time and the M270 MLRS can only put out 2 missiles at a time. Depends if they want to expend that much ammo and time to gather the launchers to go all in on the bridge to make sure they oversaturate air defense.
Shit like this makes me want to help manufacture these. It would bring a smile to my face knowing some zigger volunteered for their new space program. Where does one find a job in weapons manufacturing?
for example:
production associate - raytheon
manufacturing engineer - lockheed martin
manufacturing / tool engineer - gd land systems
you can literally just google "company name" "manufacturing jobs" and you'll get valid results. they are, at their core, normal companies. you might have a decent background check as part of it but as long as you're clean you'll have no problem
mfw one of my friends keeps telling me to join his secret squirrel gov job buy the commute would suck ass (2 hours each way from where i live) and i'd rather not give up my comfy other gov job. motherfucker won't even tell me what contractor it is lmao
Good. Now Germany can hand over 100 TAURUS because they said they wouldn't until USA sent ATACAMS. The fact UK and France sent their longer range missiles is ignored because Germany is kompromat.
As a Russian, I doubt that ATACMS will be that Wunderwaffen which will help Ukraine win this war. It will make things more difficult for the Russian army in terms of supply, just as HIMARS and Storm Shadows did when they were given to Ukraine, but it's unlikely that these missiles will have a direct impact on the situation on the ground. The Russian army did the right thing last year when they created what's now called the "Surovikin line" (which is not a single line, but 3 to 5 lines of trenches and defensive fortifications on different parts of the battle line).
But time will tell whether I'm right or wrong, obviously.
>3 to 5 lines of trenches and defensive fortifications
Comrade, surely you have forgotten that it is 9 lines and 3 crumple zones as well as the interdimensional hyperfortress Verbove where the piss key is locate.
If Ukes score a few solid hits on the Kerch bridge to take it out of commission for good it might give Putin an aneurysm. I think it's worth to get ATACMS on the ground just for that. So the fucker couldn't sleep without pills at night. We all know how much he loves that bridge. He might even order to draw air defense assets to guard the bridge, leaving russian troops with even LESS AD. You know he would.
Cluster munitions turned the entire offensive around. What do you think is going to happen to the last VDV division when 950 bomblets fall on their trench line?
These will actually be acutely devastating. Russia currently has the reserves to make endless counterattacks even if they are meaningless and end with no gains and high losses. These + good intel/recon will unironically deny force accumulation and drastically reduce their ability to conduct attacks by forcing them to even smaller assault groups or just increase the casualties tremendously when they try to mass for attacks.
I don't know, I have read that they are used mainly because there is a shortage of artillery shells in Ukraine right now, and cluster munitions are the only alternative for now until the West starts mass producing artillery shells which it promised to Ukraine. All the Russian analysts I'm following and whose insight is very much appreciated by me write and say that the importance of cluster munitions is exaggerated, that the quality of the munitions may not be very good as most of them are quite old, and that about 2/3 of the bombs (sometimes even up to 90%) do not explode immediately. I don't think they are biased in this regard, as they generally have a critical point of view and tend to remain neutral when assessing the situation on the battlefield.
>the Russian analysts I'm following and whose insight is very much appreciated by me write and say that the importance of cluster munitions is exaggerated,
And all the western ones I follow are "cluster weapons or bust" for the Ukrainian offensive.
Russians milblogs have been on the muzzle since the pringles incident. Cluster weapons are statistically superior to HE against soft targets. RU MOD is desperate to stem the flow of additional cluster weapons like the M26 and M39 because uncaging those stock piles will tear a hole through the entire Russian south.
>Russians milblogs have been on the muzzle since the pringles incident.
No, I'm not talking about bloggers like Semen Pegov and the like, I'm talking about actual military analysts like Ruslan Leviev, Yan Matveev, Dmitry Kuznets and a few others, most of whom are very critical of the Russian government and this war in general and were forced to emigrate from Russia shortly after the full-scale invasion began so as not to be silenced or thrown in jail. They are simply saying that cluster munitions are just a substitute for artillery shells at the moment, and while it is better than nothing, it is definitely not something that will radically change the situation and help Ukraine during the counter-offensive. In their posts and videos, they make a strong case for this viewpoint.
>ey are simply saying that cluster munitions are just a substitute for artillery shells at the moment, and while it is better than nothing, it is definitely not something that will radically change the situation and help Ukraine during the counter-offensive. In their posts and videos, they make a strong case for this viewpoint.
Clusters are scientifically proven to eat light positions for breakfast bro. Mind bringing up those counter points? Aside from unscientific out of hand dud counter arguments. Why do you think after kicking Ukrop butt for a month in June and July all of a sudden the 7th, 76th 44th and 104th had to show up to hold a nothing town like Robotnik?
What's going to happen when M26s with QUADRUPLE the bomblet load start raining down on Russian position?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Clusters are scientifically proven to eat light positions for breakfast bro. Mind bringing up those counter points?
In a perfect world where their explosiveness is close to 100% - yes, they are very effective. In the real world, they are not very different from conventional shells, sometimes their performance is even worse. And both sides have already used their own cluster munitions - the Soviet ones, before the U.S decided to send its clusters to Ukraine. And while the American ones may be somewhat more effective - say, 50% instead of 35-40% explode immediately after hitting the target, on the battlefield the actual difference isn't that great.
(And they may not be suitable for use in densely populated areas, but okay, this argument is not so important here, since this war is not very humane in general, so whatever).
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You taking the numbers out of your ass.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>worse
Anon your attempt to push vatnik propaganda sucks miserably. US artillery gunners think of DPICMs as nice cheat shells in comparison to unitary HE because of their effects. We have videos of mortar carriers dropping bomblets on position taking out infantry and 155s taking out ammunition MLRSes and ammunition trucks.
I doubt they're going to waste ATACMs on random trenches. They're getting a low three digit number of them at most and no more are being made, since they're technically obsolete. It's going to be used on fuel depots, major logistics hubs, infrastructure etc
Didn't Storm Shadow or SCALP get intercepted by Russian AA recently? I mean, ATACMS is much easier to intercept than that, IIRC, because all ground-launched missiles are easier to detect and destroy than air-launched ones, no?
>because all ground-launched missiles are easier to detect and destroy than air-launched ones, no
Not really, the reason ATACMs is easier is because they're a ballistic missile, the flight altitude is much higher so the curvature of the earth doesn't hide it. Big missile, larger cross section, high speed, very noticeable at high altitude. It will be easier to detect than a LO missile like SCALP/Storm Shadow, it SHOULD be easier to shoot down because of the ballistic trajectory, ATACMS doesn't use a MARV but I do believe it maneuvers. We will see if Russian AD is up to the task but given the performance so far I doubt they will be invulnerable to it.
dont forget, the ukranians were also using MALDs to force the storm shadows through, ATACMS wont have that luxury, in addition to being a ballistic missile
Wow if only they had sent 500 of these in April 22 instead of 5 in November 23 then a fucking fair few lives would have been saved and a couple more Russians killed wouldn’t it?
If kerch goes down it doesn't immediately end supplies, because I'm sure they have stockpiled a lot in Crimea. It DOES prevent effective resupply, and if/when those stockpiles get destroyed or used up there is not another primary supply line except for the one from rostov along the azov coast that would pick up the slack for the entire southern group. They could use boast but ports and infrastructure are static targets.
They're already in a bad way with chonhar having be disabled recently. It forced them to take a way longer route up by kherson and then over into tokmak/mariupol/melitopol
> "if"
When. At a moment when it will cause maximum inconvenience.
Right now, a lot of air defense and similar such resources are "protecting" the Kerch bridge. It's nice that they are so busy performing a futile task ... let's just let them keep wasting resources on that until it's more valuable to cut the bridge. I'm certain it could have already been done up to a year ago, but there's more value in waiting and timing it with other activities and goals.
I do want the nasty little monke to live long enough to see it come down, though. I want him to watch his failure in actual flames written into history.
Wait until you hear about the Hunt Technologies "THG" version that the British Army is planning on adopting under the name "AMATACM"
I forget what the AM is for but it's probably on some bottom-page google thing, just look up "thg hunt amatacm"
59503636 >we don't NEED Kyiv >we don't NEED Kharkiv >we don't NEED modern tanks >we don't NEED ammo dumps >we don't NEED Kherson >we don't NEED strategic bombers
Doesn't Russia have the Iskander missile already? Can anyone tell me what the Iskander has achieved in this war? They were really proud of it despite being completely useless in Nagorno Karabakh
>Gun forums tend to be frequented by conservatives >Conservatives hate Democrats >Democrats sided with Ukraine >Therefore they must side wit Russia >People repeat talking points from their own side
And they would still rather fight to join the West, globohomo and all, than remain part of the historic shithole known as "Russian World". How embarrassing!
>It’s getting to the point where I wouldn’t be shocked if people on 4chan start forming suicide cults because “living is gnomish nonsense”
Y'know ............ You just may be on to something there anon. I wonder if we could meme “living is gnomish nonsense” hard enough that it would work? Even a 10% attrition rate would make a helpful impact. Think of the susceptible demographic that would actually buy into it, and imagine that deadweight gone from the world.
B-but muh kinzels. Muh hypersonic. 🙁
>B-but muh kinzels. Muh hypersonic. 🙁
Buttt, ehhh
What happens to all those hypersonics?
I don't see them use these for a year now
They still fear the Patriot?
What if, just what if they destroyed the patriot and have no more reasons to use kinzhals anymore?
Then why were they using kinzhals before Patriots arrived?
I don't get what's so special about em. Storm Shadows and JASSMs are better in every metric and cost half as much to build
Big boom, cost is irrelevant they're already built.
They can be fired from HIMARS which takes some pressure off their small fleet of Su-24s, and they can carry significantly larger payloads. There are also DPICM variants that will make TUNGSTEN RAIN look like a popgun.
Fired from HIMARs/M270. There's significantly more ATACMs stockpiles than SCALP/Shadow, IIRC close to 4k were built. As the other poster mentioned the cruise missiles are fired from SU-24s, which is a more expensive and limited asset. The real sinister capability is the complex attacks it allows Ukraine to do. They'd fire shadows/scalps and drones at high value targets, throw some MALDs in if they still have them, then fire a barrage of ATACMs. All the panic goes to focusing on inbound SRBMs which significantly improves the survivability of drones and cruise missiles.
>combined hi-tech arms
I'll allow it.
1. tactical ballistic missile fired from MLRS rather than having to be fired from the over worked and falling apart MiGs.
2. 300km range. This is more than what HIMARS and M270 are currently firing.
3. They can work in tandom with storm shadows and HIMARS.
4. They can put less stress on HIMAR for long range targets, and and keep putting pressure as counter battery which is more what it's supposed to do.
I actually don't know.
Hahahaha western wondermissile must follow roads to target because of stupid american laws!
They use GPS for an after-launch navigation, don't they? If they do, they likely cannot just go directly from A to B, they have to follow the route.
>launch swarm of ATACMS
>they all crash into the black sea because of traffic causing a detour
im glad we have so many experts here with us. Wouldnt know what to do without you guys
Longer range and bigger boom.
Just for any other retards, anon, if you right click on google maps there will be an option for "MEASURE DISTANCE" which will then give you point to point between wherever you'd like.
Ballistic missiles are harder to intercept than cruise missiles. They appear from almost straight above of their target.
wrong retard
>ATACM
Important question.
Can it reach that Crimean bridge?
Importanter question.
How many will the average vatnik fit in his ass?
not as many as the amount of russian dick it can fit in
the distance from the center of Orikhiv (just north of current offensive starting point) to the far end of the crimean bridge is only 270 km in a straight line.
Depends on the variant, the oldest M39 will not. I believe around 2000 of these were made. Carried submunitions but the range was 150-175km. The newer versions are lower in supply. There were maybe 600 M57s. Ukraine isn't likely to receive M57s or E1s, M48s were produced is very small numbers which leaves only the M39 and M39A1, the A1 being able to hit Kerch from Orikhiv like the third anon in the replies stated. There were below 700 rounds of M39A1 total IIRC
Nevermind I looked at the 2024 weapons program PDF. PRSM is in production, they got 54 in 2022, 42 in 2023, and 110 are planned for 2024. Ukraine could likely get the more advanced versions provided they can fire them, for sure from M142s but maybe not from some of the 270s that have been donated.
>A surprising discovery could also ease the administration's choice to send the weapons: The U.S. has found it has more ATACMS in its inventory than originally assessed, the two officials told ABC News.
>The serviceability of the rediscovered stockpile is not yet clear, nor which specific type of missiles it contains. ATACMS come in several forms, from missiles with large high-explosive warheads, to anti-personnel cluster-munition versions that drop hundreds of bomblets on targets.
Don't sweat about the numbers for the actual specific models. Apparently we may have a warehouse full of ATACMS somewhere that was filed into the wrong cabinet and they found it during an inventory recount.
lol this is just the military revealing some of their hidden strategic stuff to swing the public opinion towards sending more stuff, they are full of toys that we don't know about that they keep in secret for strategic reasons
People are smart and groups are incredibly stupid. The bureaucracy involved can be incredibly retarded but on the edge of function. The US military trades inefficiency for effectiveness while Russia just goes full retard and embezzles.
Doubtful
>it turns out all the trillions we assumed were going into bizarre black books projects really were just going into the production of an insane amount of equipment
>so much the US govt stored it and forgets similar to how a squirrel hides acorns
>all we need to do to find an entire arsenal is look under the rub in a few warehouses Uncle Sam forgot about a decade ago
Black book shit is actually relatively cheap because the expense doesn't match scale. Spoke black book shit is like 1-2% of budget at best.
how do you miscount ballistic fucking missiles?
Count them wrong.
it was probably some shit as simple as someone forgetting to accept the arrival of a purchase order in an inventory system so the inventory didn't update the total
>how do you miscount ballistic fucking missiles?
Well, talent only takes you so far. If you have a solid base talent, then it also takes years of dedication. It's not for everyone.
government workers, man.
AMERICA!
This
but also
this. Have you ever sat around in a DMV? Imagine those types of slow ass nearly senile braindead workers slowly signing paperwork and scanning a smudged up, water damaged BEST AVAILABLE COPY into the database before another one of them updates the digital database and all of this is done in triplicate. Meanwhile the forklift certified chad has already moved the ATACMS pallets and done his paperwork already in the air conditioned bunker warehouse in the middle of Nevada or something.
yes
A cardboard drone could reach the Crimean bridge. It's been 2 years the Ukies could have built a Paris gun and shelled the Crimean bridge if they wanted to.
>230kg warhead vs 450kg warhead from Storm Shadow whilst also having shorter range, 300km vs 400-500km.
Yea, the thing is ATACMS way cheaper and they'll be getting them in larger quantities. Have fun having to keep your ammo dumps and command centers 300km from the front line to avoid them getting blasted to fuck on a weekly basis
Every day we get closer to the possibility our children will be able to grow up in a world with no Russia.
Wait, you guys are fucking real women? Like, of blood and flesh? I thought you were plane fuckers too
Hey, for some people it's not an either/or decision, Anon. Just make sure that your slutty little side piece doesn't find out about your LTR with the aircraft.
>Every day we get closer to the possibility our children will be able to grow up in a world with no Russia.
Like real talk? My ideal world is:
>Japan recaptures the Kuril islands and then some
>Russia split into Moscovite Republic (St. Petesburg and Moscow)
>Siberian Republic
>Chechnya
>any number of central asian republics
the tiny little ethnic minorities might actually thrive on their own with proper administration, and ties to EU.
Social Democracy and strong civil society for everyone
It would be better if Moscow and St. Petersburg were competing nations. It would keep them busy dealing with each other rather than creating mischief.
>not bringing back Novgorod
Sometimes we need to let go, Anon. It's dead, we can't undo what's been done.
Hurry the fuck up already. Should've sent them a year ago.
Didn’t they deny approval of ATACMS a few weeks ago? What made them change their mind?
They tend to deny shit right up until they send it in. It's possible that SCALP/Storm Shadow reserves are getting low. There were less than 1000 made and the UK and France can't sacrifice hundreds and hundreds without compromising their contingencies. It's one of the reasons Taurus was pushed for, since Germany had like 400 just sitting.
My schizo theory personally is something has changed with Iran. Back in the day there was threat of Iranian SRBMs and MRBMs being sent to Russia. I believe we held back ATACMs as leverage, Russia and Iran agreed to chill if we agreed not to provide advanced strike weapons, at the time it was probably okay because Russian cruise missile/SRBM reserves were much higher (before surovikin's chimp out) and shasneeds were the hot thing. I think it signals something good happened between the US/Iran negotiations that we have an understanding these will be sent and Iran will not provide the same to Russia because were scratching their backs, or Iran will provide them and no agreement could be made so were saying fuck it. No evidence to that, just my own theories. More realistically the US was just genuinely not trying to escalate and fearful of starting a wider war, even if we'd skullfuck russia it would be a headache regardless.
>[Western country] denies sending [Western equipment] to Ukraine
>Russians celebrate
>[denied Western equipment] ends up in Ukraine
>Russians seethe
I like it.
It could also be that the Ukrainian offensive isn’t going as planned and the ATACM’s are their backup plan.
>It could also be that the Ukrainians
are planning a sustained offensive into and throughout the Winter. These will be handy little toys to deliver to vatniks before and during Christmas. Ho Ho Ho.
>There were less than 1000 made
The UK alone purchased between 700-1000.
Yeah I was wrong about how many were made, but I'm not sure that's actually how many the bongs got. The oldest article that references that number is from 1994
>The most revolutionary new order is the pounds 650m for 700-1,000 new Conventionally Armed Stand-Off Missiles (CASOMs) for the RAF.
>https://www.independent.co.uk/news/thousands-of-jobs-shielded-by-new-military-spending-1338648.html
650m just doesn't math for than many rounds, with storm shadows costing 2.5-3 million even accounting for inflation that barely clears 500 missiles and idk if that figure was to include operating costs too. I'd be good if it's true though but I'd expect the cost to be a lot higher.
I think it's more that the us is probably operating under better to have under-counted equipment than overcounting and coming up short when critical
It’s almost like the US is actually prepared for wars
being at war for 90% of our history will do that. Who would have thought?
US agreed to lift saction on Iranian oil, so they can squeeze Pucciq out of the chinese market.
There are apparently multiple factions within the US government, some of which are terrified of escalation (noooooks), and some of which aren't. So, DC-watching can be a bit like Kremlin-watching back in the day.
Supposedly the US cut a deal with China not to give Ukraine certain weapons if China stayed out of the war, either the US caught China helping Russia, or something else changed.
>A surprising discovery could also ease the administration's choice to send the weapons: The U.S. has found it has more ATACMS in its inventory than originally assessed, the two officials told ABC News.
Yea, the U.S. military is essentially a black hole when it comes to equipment shit. There might be some things that are undercounted.
>"Sir, we moved the fridge in the breakroom and discovered 300 unaccounted for ballistic missiles"
>"We also found another $1,000,000,000,000 bill in the coffee machine. Apparently Johnny from accounting tried using it to buy a cappuccino."
That could be a great sitcom.
reminds me of something I read about WH40K where billions or even a trillion people starved because of an imperial rounding error
Gaslight: "uh guys our own stocks are so low that we couldnt possibly spare any and anyway you dont actually need them and never have"
Gatekeep: "this is an advanced weapon you mongrels can't be trusted with because you'll fire it into Russia"
Girlboss: "uh so we were cleaning up and found this bunch of operational fires under the couch"
>Vacuuming the Pentagon break room
>Lift up couch cushions
>534,076 ATACMS
>Mfw
Outside of just losing them in the depths of the bureaucracy, I reckon it's possible that they're just taking into account the fact that a lot of ATACMS are rigged for cluster munitions, and they're now allowed to send those...
When said out loud ATACMS sounds like the plural of an "attack 'um". What is an "attack 'um"? idfk, cant america start giving normal names to things instead of these goofy acronyms
when someone asks "what do I do with this missile?" the answer is "attack 'em", duh
YEAH ATTACK EMS'
i'll believe it when i see it. they were play footsie with ATACM for at least past 6 months with nothing to show for.
how many does the US have?
>stormshadow but worse
another gamechanger
>a worse more plentiful storm shadow that can be fired from rocket artillery
>we now have MORE long range attack missiles not less
Always a gain. It puts less stress on the measily Ukrainian air-force whose planes are literally falling apart from running so many missions.
but also much easier to intercept
In theory, this IS russian air defense were talking about, I remember that S-400 in Crimea got filmed being hit while the drone was just casually orbiting it.
Yes, and Ukraine keeps hitting and taking out S-400's. Each time it degrades the Russian air defenses that much more.
They literally do not have the ability for mass saturation of both Europe and USA to make a first strike plausible for them since it would immediately result in their deaths.
No amount of nukes would be enough, because every nuke in the NATO arsenal would already be launched before the first Russian nuke reached its target. That's the whole point of Mutually Assured Destruction.
Says who? The Russians and their oh so inpenetrable AD?
> Why yes, Russia will shoot down a tactical ballistic missile screaming in at Mach 3.
I wouldn’t exactly call Mach 3 “screaming”
Russia doesn't have any good missile defense systems, just S300 and S400.
Can they take out the fucking bridge with this and get to the nuke-flinging already?
Russia isn't man enough to use nukes, or declare war on the west. Sad tbh
The bridge is certainly within range of ATACMS even when launching well behind the frontline. Question is whether the Ukrainians go all in to take out the bridge.
HIMARS can only put out 1 missile at a time and the M270 MLRS can only put out 2 missiles at a time. Depends if they want to expend that much ammo and time to gather the launchers to go all in on the bridge to make sure they oversaturate air defense.
If the launchers were the bottleneck, the US could just send more. The ammo is the costly part, HIMARS is just a truck with a crane and hydraulics.
Haven't they been saying they'll send them for half a year now?
Shit like this makes me want to help manufacture these. It would bring a smile to my face knowing some zigger volunteered for their new space program. Where does one find a job in weapons manufacturing?
>Where does one find a job in weapons manufacturing?
Seconded.
find your favorite weapon making munitions company. join it. raytheon, lockmart, general dynamics, etc. look for manufacturing jobs at any of those.
for example:
production associate - raytheon
manufacturing engineer - lockheed martin
manufacturing / tool engineer - gd land systems
you can literally just google "company name" "manufacturing jobs" and you'll get valid results. they are, at their core, normal companies. you might have a decent background check as part of it but as long as you're clean you'll have no problem
mfw one of my friends keeps telling me to join his secret squirrel gov job buy the commute would suck ass (2 hours each way from where i live) and i'd rather not give up my comfy other gov job. motherfucker won't even tell me what contractor it is lmao
Good. Now Germany can hand over 100 TAURUS because they said they wouldn't until USA sent ATACAMS. The fact UK and France sent their longer range missiles is ignored because Germany is kompromat.
Germans have been so unreliable, it's quite sad how broken they are.
Give Greece those Swiss Leopards and let them transfer their tanks to Ukraine.
Another day closes, TZD is closer.
Times have changed, now Russians get to feel pain at home. Not like it hasn't been already happening!
Ok mr g man
sometimes the gypsies bring their whole families to gang on you if you hit them back, and sometimes the only solution is a final one
mustache man unironically should have focused on gypsies more than the tiny hat tribe.
This is the sixth or seventh time we've heard this.
Wow will the White House actually admit one of their strategies was wrong? Somehow doubt it.
Wdym? Their strategy is great.
>slowly bleed Russia while test bedding Chinese reactions and dumping cold war stock
The only thing Biden is still good at is rustling Russians.
As a Russian, I doubt that ATACMS will be that Wunderwaffen which will help Ukraine win this war. It will make things more difficult for the Russian army in terms of supply, just as HIMARS and Storm Shadows did when they were given to Ukraine, but it's unlikely that these missiles will have a direct impact on the situation on the ground. The Russian army did the right thing last year when they created what's now called the "Surovikin line" (which is not a single line, but 3 to 5 lines of trenches and defensive fortifications on different parts of the battle line).
But time will tell whether I'm right or wrong, obviously.
>3 to 5 lines of trenches and defensive fortifications
Comrade, surely you have forgotten that it is 9 lines and 3 crumple zones as well as the interdimensional hyperfortress Verbove where the piss key is locate.
If Ukes score a few solid hits on the Kerch bridge to take it out of commission for good it might give Putin an aneurysm. I think it's worth to get ATACMS on the ground just for that. So the fucker couldn't sleep without pills at night. We all know how much he loves that bridge. He might even order to draw air defense assets to guard the bridge, leaving russian troops with even LESS AD. You know he would.
Cluster munitions turned the entire offensive around. What do you think is going to happen to the last VDV division when 950 bomblets fall on their trench line?
These will actually be acutely devastating. Russia currently has the reserves to make endless counterattacks even if they are meaningless and end with no gains and high losses. These + good intel/recon will unironically deny force accumulation and drastically reduce their ability to conduct attacks by forcing them to even smaller assault groups or just increase the casualties tremendously when they try to mass for attacks.
I don't know, I have read that they are used mainly because there is a shortage of artillery shells in Ukraine right now, and cluster munitions are the only alternative for now until the West starts mass producing artillery shells which it promised to Ukraine. All the Russian analysts I'm following and whose insight is very much appreciated by me write and say that the importance of cluster munitions is exaggerated, that the quality of the munitions may not be very good as most of them are quite old, and that about 2/3 of the bombs (sometimes even up to 90%) do not explode immediately. I don't think they are biased in this regard, as they generally have a critical point of view and tend to remain neutral when assessing the situation on the battlefield.
>the Russian analysts I'm following and whose insight is very much appreciated by me write and say that the importance of cluster munitions is exaggerated,
And all the western ones I follow are "cluster weapons or bust" for the Ukrainian offensive.
Russians milblogs have been on the muzzle since the pringles incident. Cluster weapons are statistically superior to HE against soft targets. RU MOD is desperate to stem the flow of additional cluster weapons like the M26 and M39 because uncaging those stock piles will tear a hole through the entire Russian south.
>Russians milblogs have been on the muzzle since the pringles incident.
No, I'm not talking about bloggers like Semen Pegov and the like, I'm talking about actual military analysts like Ruslan Leviev, Yan Matveev, Dmitry Kuznets and a few others, most of whom are very critical of the Russian government and this war in general and were forced to emigrate from Russia shortly after the full-scale invasion began so as not to be silenced or thrown in jail. They are simply saying that cluster munitions are just a substitute for artillery shells at the moment, and while it is better than nothing, it is definitely not something that will radically change the situation and help Ukraine during the counter-offensive. In their posts and videos, they make a strong case for this viewpoint.
>ey are simply saying that cluster munitions are just a substitute for artillery shells at the moment, and while it is better than nothing, it is definitely not something that will radically change the situation and help Ukraine during the counter-offensive. In their posts and videos, they make a strong case for this viewpoint.
Clusters are scientifically proven to eat light positions for breakfast bro. Mind bringing up those counter points? Aside from unscientific out of hand dud counter arguments. Why do you think after kicking Ukrop butt for a month in June and July all of a sudden the 7th, 76th 44th and 104th had to show up to hold a nothing town like Robotnik?
What's going to happen when M26s with QUADRUPLE the bomblet load start raining down on Russian position?
>Clusters are scientifically proven to eat light positions for breakfast bro. Mind bringing up those counter points?
In a perfect world where their explosiveness is close to 100% - yes, they are very effective. In the real world, they are not very different from conventional shells, sometimes their performance is even worse. And both sides have already used their own cluster munitions - the Soviet ones, before the U.S decided to send its clusters to Ukraine. And while the American ones may be somewhat more effective - say, 50% instead of 35-40% explode immediately after hitting the target, on the battlefield the actual difference isn't that great.
(And they may not be suitable for use in densely populated areas, but okay, this argument is not so important here, since this war is not very humane in general, so whatever).
You taking the numbers out of your ass.
>worse
Anon your attempt to push vatnik propaganda sucks miserably. US artillery gunners think of DPICMs as nice cheat shells in comparison to unitary HE because of their effects. We have videos of mortar carriers dropping bomblets on position taking out infantry and 155s taking out ammunition MLRSes and ammunition trucks.
I doubt they're going to waste ATACMs on random trenches. They're getting a low three digit number of them at most and no more are being made, since they're technically obsolete. It's going to be used on fuel depots, major logistics hubs, infrastructure etc
It's Wunderwaffe you communist rape baby
Didn't Storm Shadow or SCALP get intercepted by Russian AA recently? I mean, ATACMS is much easier to intercept than that, IIRC, because all ground-launched missiles are easier to detect and destroy than air-launched ones, no?
>because all ground-launched missiles are easier to detect and destroy than air-launched ones, no
Not really, the reason ATACMs is easier is because they're a ballistic missile, the flight altitude is much higher so the curvature of the earth doesn't hide it. Big missile, larger cross section, high speed, very noticeable at high altitude. It will be easier to detect than a LO missile like SCALP/Storm Shadow, it SHOULD be easier to shoot down because of the ballistic trajectory, ATACMS doesn't use a MARV but I do believe it maneuvers. We will see if Russian AD is up to the task but given the performance so far I doubt they will be invulnerable to it.
dont forget, the ukranians were also using MALDs to force the storm shadows through, ATACMS wont have that luxury, in addition to being a ballistic missile
Ziggers posting about 10 slide threads a minute to try and get rid of this lol
Wow if only they had sent 500 of these in April 22 instead of 5 in November 23 then a fucking fair few lives would have been saved and a couple more Russians killed wouldn’t it?
salami tactics
How many lines is the west willing to cross?
Dunno, how many you got?
The ass is truly out in the open hanging in the ass.
What will happen if Ukies manage to completely destroy the Crimean bridge? The eyebrow can only get so high
If kerch goes down it doesn't immediately end supplies, because I'm sure they have stockpiled a lot in Crimea. It DOES prevent effective resupply, and if/when those stockpiles get destroyed or used up there is not another primary supply line except for the one from rostov along the azov coast that would pick up the slack for the entire southern group. They could use boast but ports and infrastructure are static targets.
They're already in a bad way with chonhar having be disabled recently. It forced them to take a way longer route up by kherson and then over into tokmak/mariupol/melitopol
>If kerch goes down it doesn't immediately end supplies, because I'm sure they have stockpiled a lot in Crimea.
They also keep hitting the bridges coming OUT of Crimea too.
See
> "if"
When. At a moment when it will cause maximum inconvenience.
Right now, a lot of air defense and similar such resources are "protecting" the Kerch bridge. It's nice that they are so busy performing a futile task ... let's just let them keep wasting resources on that until it's more valuable to cut the bridge. I'm certain it could have already been done up to a year ago, but there's more value in waiting and timing it with other activities and goals.
I do want the nasty little monke to live long enough to see it come down, though. I want him to watch his failure in actual flames written into history.
>we're now in the era of Crimean Liberation
>around the same time Ukraine will get Gripens, F-16s and F-18s
The memes keep writing to themselves
Someone confirmed what the US senate approved like 2 months ago. So what?
>Yuropoor equipment does all the dirty work and absorbs all the negative press caused by pictures of it's burned wrecks
Read less russian propaganda.
If they're going to give them, they're better give all 5 000 000 000 of them.
If Russia got chinese GMLRS for their Smerch, how would It affect the current war in Ukraine?
Probably nothing, It would allow Russia to attempt to hit targets but their current stuff seems to miss by a massive margin.
Good chance that the Chinese are stockpiling their weapons for an invasion of Russia. a lot of good land is up for grabs as Russia cant defend it.
Wait until you hear about the Hunt Technologies "THG" version that the British Army is planning on adopting under the name "AMATACM"
I forget what the AM is for but it's probably on some bottom-page google thing, just look up "thg hunt amatacm"
Russian CVs are about to get sniped.
GG no re.
59503636
>we don't NEED Kyiv
>we don't NEED Kharkiv
>we don't NEED modern tanks
>we don't NEED ammo dumps
>we don't NEED Kherson
>we don't NEED strategic bombers
Doesn't Russia have the Iskander missile already? Can anyone tell me what the Iskander has achieved in this war? They were really proud of it despite being completely useless in Nagorno Karabakh
Pretty sure the last general used up most of them on terror bombing campaigns
>Visit gun forum for their opinion on this
>WW3 NOOKS RUSSIA IS GOING TO CRUSH US!!
>Visit another gun forum
>WW3 NOOKS! RUSSIA IS GOING TO CRUSH US!!!
>Visit another gun forum
>WW3! NOOKS!!!! RUSSIA IS GOING TO CRUSH US!!!
What the shit is wrong with people?
>Gun forums tend to be frequented by conservatives
>Conservatives hate Democrats
>Democrats sided with Ukraine
>Therefore they must side wit Russia
>People repeat talking points from their own side
Right wing became completely and utterly retarded in last couple years out of contrarianism
Russian operations focus heavily on conservative groups. It's why they started praising Putin in 2012.
So their sovereignty no longer matters because zelensky is gnomish?
And they would still rather fight to join the West, globohomo and all, than remain part of the historic shithole known as "Russian World". How embarrassing!
It’s getting to the point where I wouldn’t be shocked if people on 4chan start forming suicide cults because “living is gnomish nonsense”
>It’s getting to the point where I wouldn’t be shocked if people on 4chan start forming suicide cults because “living is gnomish nonsense”
Y'know ............ You just may be on to something there anon. I wonder if we could meme “living is gnomish nonsense” hard enough that it would work? Even a 10% attrition rate would make a helpful impact. Think of the susceptible demographic that would actually buy into it, and imagine that deadweight gone from the world.
Brilliant.