Ah yeah. No source just throwing that out there, Italy said Wagner is pumping migrants from areas of African they control into people trafficking channels they run into the EU you can check reuters on that one though
Its up to you to post the source as you are the one claiming it anon. Rand pump out reports all the time, they have some occasional good ones and some occasional bad ones, they are on a lot more than military stuff as well. I would say that based on your comment, they are laughably incorrect. NATO has not even touched most of its own warfighting munitions at all, most of the stuff that went to Ukraine was coming to its sell by date and expiring. I'd love RAND to tell me where all the NATOS air forces ordinance is supposed to have vanished too for example, or naval. Your claim just makes no sense whatsoever.
You’re the first one to ask for a source, now source what you said and I’ll comply and source the RAND report. But it’s difficult to believe you have integrity or are interested in sources if you’re not willing to source your own material.
How do you watch Russians lose a hundred thousand men to take over in a full year an area of Ukraine they basically already almost completely controlled before the invasion and still claim shit this retarded? Complete imbecile
>Putin could be in Berlin in 3 days.
I guess you probably could strap him to a ballistic missile and launch him at Alexanderplatz, so its technically not a lie.
At the bare minimum it's impressive they haven't run out. >insert qualification to not be called vatnik here
Considering it's primarily Russian equipment versus a bunch of assorted western equipment, it is certainly surprising there are so many total Russia has but maybe I'm just retarded
>At the bare minimum it's impressive they haven't run out.
How is that impressive? You have not lost your last artillery tractor yet to the war you started against the much much smaller neighbour on your border even though you have been ab absolutely thrashed by them militarily. How is that impressive?
Weird, I remember the cope being >Ukraine has a small and pathetic army, one of the weakest in Europe >They are only surviving because of HATO aid
Not too long ago.
Now Ukraine is a serious threats that must be respected, and HATO are akshually terrible?
Ukraine has a smaller population than the UK, Germany France etc. Russia is just a worthless fuck up that even though it was far larger and had for more military equipment it could not defeat even though it initiated the invasion and held every advantage initially. Russia sucks. We see that every day here just in the quality of individuals who spam pro Russian noise.
>started the war with a manpower advantage
no they didnt, youre basing this off of the wikipedia page which totaled all of ukraine's military personnel vs russia's initial invasion force. this doesnt take into account that the bulk of that number was TDF which were distributed across all of ukraine, whereas Russia was able to mass its forces at its axes of advance, meaning they always had local superiority.
>be Russia >be drunk >have bigger country >have more men >have the “2nd most powerful military” >invade neighbor who is smaller with less population but has more troops >hilarity ensues
First off, not they didn’t have more troops. Secondly, that just makes Russia even more stupid if they did. They had over 3 times the population, more tanks, apcs, jets, helicopters, and should have more manufacturing capacity. If they had a manpower disadvantage, why wouldn’t they wait 6-8 months or a full year and train more troops.
The alternative is they knew Ukraine had more troops, knew they get western gear, knew their own stuff wasn’t up to par, and invaded anyway. You can’t possibly spin any scenario to make them look good.
Nobody really thought about russhits as anything more than an angry gremlin that spews some propaganda online.
Now russia sperged out to show the west its might and, uh, it’s not exactly covering itself with glory. You’ll be a rusted laughing stock for the next two decades at the very least.
>Russians have taken far fewer casualties than the Ukrainians
das rite! and moskva made it back to the port under it's own power. also we still control kherson! Z!
The only time and cost effective way would be to throw out all internal parts and replace with new ones. Considering thise aren't being made anymore, it means cannibalizing all of them for good parts, and fitting in "good enough" modern alternatives where possible.
If that's not an option, it means trying really hard to de-rust everything until the moving parts move again and a working engine can be fit in. Will the old parts with rust pits hold up without breaking? Will the gun not explode under pressure? Will the engine hold up? Those are all fun questions for the crews at the front to find out.
The bigger problem, especially with the aircraft, is will the frame hold up under stress. They're made to be usable for a set number of years/flight hours reliably, but that all goes out the window if it sits there rusting and decaying for decades with constant shifts in enviromental conditions. It might look fine on the outside if you fix it up, but you won't know about an internal crack until the wing suddenly snaps off.
if you got enough spare parts enough workers and a repair shop with all tools you may be able to fix 1 out of 10, will still take a while, also russia got no choice, they have to do it regardless if it makes sense or not
APC's and Trucks are going to be easy tier, esp considering alot of Soviet APC's used low Horsepower automotive engines and you can literally swap in a modern V-8 or a COTS diesel from a car.
BTR-50 had a single diesel V-6
MT-LB used a diesel V-8
BTR-60/70 used double gas 6-cylinder engines which were like 180hp combined
BTR-80 made the switch to a single diese in the 220hp rangel but most of these are in service.
A KPV barrel can be changed if its toast - alternatively they can drop in a KPPU or Kliver turret or asimilar
Rusted shit is going to need to get blasted and a repaint.
The biggest issue is going to be electrical, hydraulics, and suspension - this is unironically where tracked vehicles are going to have advantages - the BTR-50 and MT-LB are going to be relatively easier to restore in this state.
As for aircraft?
Mi-2's can be restored readily
Mi-6 "Hook" was taken out of service due to the rotor fatigue life and would be a major issue - besides Mi-26 is still produced and is better in every way
The old fighters?
Fucktons of MiG-23/27 can be operationally restored as can Su-22M
Older MiG's and Sukhoi's can potentially be turned into drones or loitering munitions - MiG-25 and Su-15 are ripe for this
https://i.imgur.com/LrmcfwD.jpg
also helicopters
Mi-2 would be easy to return to service - it was not a complicated rotorcraft and Russia has other engines it can swap into it
>The old fighters? >Fucktons of MiG-23/27 can be operationally restored as can Su-22M >Older MiG's and Sukhoi's can potentially be turned into drones or loitering munitions - MiG-25 and Su-15 are ripe for this
I doubt the ziggers maintained the records for those airframes, who knows how many were at the end of their life before they went in storage and any restoration will be rushed and incredibly half assed. a rusty btr just stops moving when it breaks, a rusty mig falls out the goddamn sky. fuck that shit
Russia claimed 500 MiG-23 in reserve as of the 2010's.
MiG-27 had a number of issues but they could probably raise 100
The soviet union was absolute dog shit when it came to giving their pilots flight hours, even worse they did shit like pairing/tripling where even though they had more than enough fighters and then some for their pilots, in peacetime the squadron would heavily use a select few airframes and keep the rest in low readiness due to the maintenance concerns. There are probably MiG-23's with fuck all flight hours - but yes records are going to be a problem.
Turning an old aircraft into a missile isn't going to have the same considerations though. Why take a chance with a full restore with no paperwork when you can strap two 1000lb bombs bombs to it, drone ot, and point it at Kiev.
Russia can also turn these old into bunkers, utilizing operational turrets - a la Finland
1 week ago
Anonymous
turn tanks*
1 week ago
Anonymous
Does Russia really have the capability to convert old fighter jets to missiles in meaningful numbers? I thought that requires microchips and electronics that are one of the few things Russia struggles to manufacture domestically.
1 week ago
Anonymous
Russian kamikaze pilots when?
1 week ago
Anonymous
>Russia can also turn these old into bunkers, utilizing operational turrets - a la Finland
Not a viable idea in the age of the precision guided muntion.
1 week ago
Anonymous
Actually have been wondering about that.
That's still the best use for otherwise useless turrets no?
A bit waste of manpower and time, but it is better than than just using trenches and foxholes at main defense line.
Could also be used as a decoys, to force other side to use their guided mutions to clear scrap metal.
Although dragging those all across the country to front lines is probably not the best use of limited trucks and trains.
1 week ago
Anonymous
>Although dragging those all across the country to front lines is probably not the best use of limited trucks and trains.
That’s the problem. Guided munitions are fairly expensive but that isn’t the problem for the west. Even old as M72 LAWs can take out the T62s and older shit that is being sent out now. If it was as simple as started them up and driving them out, sure it’s better than nothing. But it’s not that simple. You have to dedicate a lot of resources to refurbish stuff that is only effective against unsupported infantry with no antitank weapons. That doesn’t happen often. The time, manpower, and resources are much much better used on building new things or things that are actually useful.
Spending your manufacturing capacity on old shit you know will blow up quickly in hopes your enemy runs out of rockets is a retarded strategy.
1 week ago
Anonymous
>The soviet union was absolute dog shit when it came to giving their pilots flight hours
my favourite part was when they wrote themselves "flight hours" by measuring it with spent fuel. Which meant they simply dumped the fuel near the base on the ground. A local well near the old base has still flammable "water" due to all of the contamination seeping into the ground
vatnik union was absolute dogshit, just like its remnants today attempting to kill everyone who was locked in that open air prison with them
>APC's and Trucks are going to be easy tier
You've never touched an engine or even a car in your life, nothing about those rust buckets is ever going to work again. You're either too stupid to breathe on your own, or somehow trying to give the pidorashkas false hope.
it reads like this shitty wishful TV ad: Warsaw is just 2 h tank drive just enough for VDV to iron they parade shirt; for Berlin we dont even need maps most officers have been deployed there already and so on
Changing an engine and transmission seems like more than a 5 minute job. > select a suitable engine and gearbox in manufacture > design the mods required. At a minimum new engine supports, fuel filters, new air intake and exhaust pipework. Maybe also new radiators, fuel pipework and electrical wiring > Build a test model > Field test to confirm it all works under load.
What was meant by "new" was not "different" but a new/overhauled replacement. Easier said than done depending on who still makes or stocks replacement parts and how large the existing machining and rebuild capacity actually is.
Consumables deteriorate in storage unless loved and periodically inspected US style.
>all these fighting vehicles >absolutely no support vehicles
Is the Russian doctrine literally just continous offensive and throwing everything you have at the enemy and having your soldiers live off the conquered land like some razing steppe horde?
Where are the trucks?
Where are the logistics?
Compare this to NATO vehicles where one combat vehicles has like 4 trucks just to support it
you are not wrong, their doctrine is to attack and maintain initiative at all costs. we are now observing what it looks like when things dont go according to plan
russian infastructure is so shit they don't bother with it at this point so their war strategy is to have survivors of an attack raid and loot like a bunch of marauding barbarians.
russians are dull and servile too so they can be whipped like serfs into performing any task, webm related
[...]
[...]
[...]
Serious question: what would it take to get these operational? And would it be worth it?
Lets put it like this.
Russia claimed 4000 in service/operational reserve T-64 in 1995. That number shrinked to 2k in the 2000's.
Ukraine had around 3,600 of which it only ever used around 2,400 - using the rest for long term storage/parts and occasionally a hull used for a special vehicle.
We can round Ukraines number up to 4k because why not.
The only other major users are Uzbekistan with 100 tanks. Kazakhstan had 50 and took them out of service
The T-64, like the T-80 was not exported.
That still leaves ~5,000 T-64 that the USSR produced up until 1987
The USSR was producing the T-55 up until 1981 - Russia probably easily has 30k sitting around
The T-62's they are upgrading and returning to service stopped production in 1975 - with over 22,000 made.
That tells me they are sitting on alot of 115mm ammo and AT-10 ATGM's that are probably lacking a use case compared to 100mm ammo used in the myriad of T-55 variants and AT guns
APC's and Trucks are going to be easy tier, esp considering alot of Soviet APC's used low Horsepower automotive engines and you can literally swap in a modern V-8 or a COTS diesel from a car.
BTR-50 had a single diesel V-6
MT-LB used a diesel V-8
BTR-60/70 used double gas 6-cylinder engines which were like 180hp combined
BTR-80 made the switch to a single diese in the 220hp rangel but most of these are in service.
A KPV barrel can be changed if its toast - alternatively they can drop in a KPPU or Kliver turret or asimilar
Rusted shit is going to need to get blasted and a repaint.
The biggest issue is going to be electrical, hydraulics, and suspension - this is unironically where tracked vehicles are going to have advantages - the BTR-50 and MT-LB are going to be relatively easier to restore in this state.
As for aircraft?
Mi-2's can be restored readily
Mi-6 "Hook" was taken out of service due to the rotor fatigue life and would be a major issue - besides Mi-26 is still produced and is better in every way
The old fighters?
Fucktons of MiG-23/27 can be operationally restored as can Su-22M
Older MiG's and Sukhoi's can potentially be turned into drones or loitering munitions - MiG-25 and Su-15 are ripe for this
[...]
Mi-2 would be easy to return to service - it was not a complicated rotorcraft and Russia has other engines it can swap into it
MiG-17 were basically all exported away
There were enough MiG-21 made that they could drone-fiy some to be useful in the SEAD role - if only to force a radar paint and eat a SAM for something like a Su-34 to respond to
Why do you turd worlders not grasp that a billion is pocket change to the American military?
One of the last generation of our politicians had a joke/quote about this exact situation: "boy, you spend a billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you're talking real money!"
After spending 1+trillion dollarinos in the Afghan adventures expansion pack having Russia military power implode for a few billion with no blood is the deal of the century.
Still waiting for the Ukrainians to throw down their weapons and join their Russian brothers. The West will never understand. And then >We'll all be dining in Kiev by tomorrow.
>Think tank: trans rights are human right, white supremacy is the greatest threat to democracy >PrepHole: think tanks are meaningless bro, they're controlled by the garden gnomes >Think tank: Russia is losing, Ukraine is winning >PrepHole: Based! Russia BTFO'd!
> If its just 0.04% why are we sending billions that way?
It is undeniably funny to see an irredentist country with muh #2 army in the world that larps as the continuation of our former competitor invade their former vassal and get bogged down 20 miles away from the border
Finest entertainment you can buy for… what, $250/person?
You should be less worried about what it's costing Russia and what it's costing Ukraine. A lot of Ukrainian soldiers are dead too and and Russia can win a war of attrition. This is why NATO needs to stop with the bullshit, and just flood Ukraine with as much military hardware as possible. ATACMs fucking NOW.
You are sending billions to your own manufacturing facilities to replace the outdated Bradleys you'll never actually use that you're tossing to Ukraine to fulfill your minimum commitments under the Budapest Memorandum. You are literally spending those billions on your own workers, own people, own army to fulfill your basic geopolitical objectives
>B-BUT KEKER NEVER TOLD ME THIS
Cucker was too busy shitting himself when his text messages leaked and it turns out he hates Trump more than most Democrats do.
Oof. While Russia badly needs to lose this you can't help but feel for the poor fucking infantry being sent forward by a country which doesn't even have the decency to look after those it's sending to war.
If they keep it up, they'll keep getting fucked when China realizes it can carve its pound of flesh from Russian soil. Then the conscription could continue until half of Russia gets annexed and the other half gets laughed at.
Not even I want Russian randos to get stomped by Chinks.
biggest battle of the war was in march of 2022 and russia got fucked. since then it's just a clean up which might take a while but result would be the same - russia has lost.
Has there been a battle in this war with more casualties/resources committed?
[...]
biggest battle of the war was in march of 2022 and russia got fucked. since then it's just a clean up which might take a while but result would be the same - russia has lost.
[...]
Ukraine was expected to lose a year ago. Russia could officially win tomorrow and it’s still embarrassing
Unfortunately for Ukraine it doesn't matter how a war begins. Russia underestimated them, got smacked early on, but it appears the tide has turned.
>taken far fewer casualties
No they did not, gay. russia at this point is suffering 150k casualties and god knows how many are actually dead. I also wouldn't count on them having a good medical care to bring down the amount of preventable deaths or permanent injuries.
Not even WWII germany under day and night bombardment lost all their equipment, scarcity yes, not that many, yes, but we will always see vatnik vehicles and tanks.
I don't want to jinx it one way or the other. Russians seem content at this point to attrit and solidify their own lines. Outside of the Donbas Oblast, they don't seem to be overly concerned about taking more ground.
Even with 5:1 ratios, the Ukrainians have lost thousands of men too. Soon they are going to be 100% reliant upon NATO tech because such a large portion of their experienced soldiers will be crippled or dead.
Remember that Ukraine needs to go on the OFFENSIVE, which almost always has higher casualties than the defender. Ukrainians seem to be more skilled the Russians, but they aren't a nation of Navy Seals and they are new to the equipment, so time will tell how well they can counter-attack.
I will admit that I was full of super-hopium last fall after the collapse of Kharkiv and Kherson [city], but Le Butcher Man was actually semi-competent and the Russians have spent months now solidifying the lines and have more numbers now due to the draft.
Euros have been asleep at the wheel for 30+ years now and they don't have half the Leopards to donate they were pretending they did. Honest to God, the best route for Ukraine to get tanks at this point is probably using Abrams, the USA has thousands sitting in storage and if we spent a couple billion we could set up a big refurbishing plant to add/remove certain pieces for export.
They just had an entire winter offensive across the donetsk and luhansk front
I suppose you can argue that russia has some vague goal of securing the strip of land they have taken over, but they show desperation to kick ukies out of the rest of Donetsk and Luhansk
> And third, the Russians have taken far fewer casualties
Nope. Cope.
In terms of military casualties it’s pretty consistently been around a 1:7 to 1:10 ratio almost every day. Only way you could possibly argue that Ukraine has had more casualties is if you count all the civilians Russians have killed, but even that would likely be a stretch.
Not that Anon but I'll take a shot. We don't know what Ukrainian casualties are. That said, we can make inferences based on logic, deductive reasoning, and publicly available evidence. What we do know:
1. Ukraine is defending and has fortified the area. Giving them numerous advantages.
2. Russia is attacking in human waves which is prone to high casualties.
3. Russia no longer has massive artillery superiority.
4. Video and photo evidence has come out showing big Russian casualties.
5. Previous wars had much higher casualty rates for infantry assaulting fortified positions.
8. Multiple claims from Ukrainian sources about positive casualty-to-loss rates.
7. Russian mill blogger complaints about Russian casualties and poor tactics
8. A lack of success on the ground for Russia.
9. Ukraine's previous retreats when casualty-to-loss rates became unfavorable
10. Near unanimous consensus among Ukrainians political and military leadership about defending Bakhmut
11. No appreciable advantage in military skill among the attackers or defenders.
How could Russia, without any significant advantages in aviation, artillery, vehicles, experience, etc.., be inflicting anywhere close to equal casualties while frontally assaulting fortified positions? This would also have to go against everything we know from history, OSINT data, and the reports from Russian sources and so on. If they were inflicting massive casualties on Ukraine, why hasn't Bakhmut fallen? Where are the photos to match the Russian dead? They should be making rapid advances with an equal casualty-to-loss rate. If f the loss rates are so poor, why hasn't Ukraine retreated? Ukraine doesn't have unlimited manpower, their leaders aren't idiots, they've retreated from bad situations before. There's more but you get the idea.
Sorry, but all I can read there is “because I want it to be true”. If Ukrainian losses are so low why does the west suppress casualty figures? Why does so much of the go pro footage (often posted by foreign volunteers) reek of rank amateurism and often end in one for one losses? A few months ago defence analysts on mainstream news were happy to point out how high the Ukrainian losses were, but now they seem to not get asked about it.
Ursula’s deleted claim of over 100k service deaths https://apa.az/en/europe/european-commission-deleted-the-part-from-ursula-von-der-leyens-address-on-death-of-more-than-100000-ukrainian-servicemen-updated-390674
Are you seriously suggesting that Russia has lost between 500k - 700k and that’s a serious estimate? WP reckons it’s 120k Ukrainian to Russia’s 200k.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/13/ukraine-casualties-pessimism-ammunition-shortage/ >Russian bloggers
And Ukrainian leaders are publicly calling for a withdrawal from bahkmut and saying they have no experienced soldiers left as they’ve all be killed >why hasn’t bahkmut fallen
UK MoD posts have been talking about the Russian advances there
Honestly getting tired of the stupidity of fan boys of both sides. I’ve just scrolled up and reread the retarded ratio claim. 10:1 - so a million Russians are dead? Ridiculous.
I miss PrepHole.
> If Ukrainian losses......
There is no reason to provide the enemy with intelligence. If it is low, and you want him to attack, why would you tell him? If it is high, and you don't want him to attack, why would you tell him? >Why does so much of the go pro.......
I haven't seen any obvious difference in the professionalism of the combatants in released go pro footage, drone footage, or UAV footage. The vast majority of the footage released online and categorized by OSINT collectors for losses is dramatically in favour of Ukraine. Either Russians are supressing their successes, or they don't exist. I suggest you watch more footage. >A few months ago defence analysts.......
That might be your perception, but it is not reflected in any serious analysis. Russia DID amplify a number of mistakes in western reporting (and politicians like Von der Leyens misspeaking) about Ukrainian casualties vs. KIA a few months back. They tried to amplify Ukrainians having 100K KIA when actual estimates were 100K casualties. Russia has done their best to spam 100K KIA everywhere they could. Further, casualties overall, are not casualties in Bakhmut. Ukraine might take big losses in Kherson, and much lower losses in Bakhmut for instance. Actual casualties estimates for the entire war vary but most estimates peg them around 400K for Russia and 130K for Ukraine. Around 30K dead+100K wounded for Ukraine and 140K dead + 260K wounded for Russia. Better training, equipment, medical access, evacuation, defending, etc.. accounts for the disparity in how many wounded survive. Don't forget, many wounded return to service >https://www.washingtonpost.....
That article identifies a number of people attempting to correct the reporting while they were trying to write the article (about losses, strategy, etc..) , but the author refused to listen and instead went with their own narrative. Their unnamed source was attempting to elicit sympathy for more western support.
No they actually have 3000 T14s and 1000 SU57s in reserve with the crews that aren’t brainlets, Z is in control trust the plan! Only 2 more weeks Zisters
Lmao the difference is that Russia at least have gained territory this month. Ukies have lost just as much equipment and they have 0.04% less of their land despite their best efforts
RAND corporation just said this last week that NATO is depleted and Putin could be in Berlin in 3 days.
Ah yeah. No source just throwing that out there, Italy said Wagner is pumping migrants from areas of African they control into people trafficking channels they run into the EU you can check reuters on that one though
The RAND corporation makes all their reports available on their web site anon.
Its up to you to post the source as you are the one claiming it anon. Rand pump out reports all the time, they have some occasional good ones and some occasional bad ones, they are on a lot more than military stuff as well. I would say that based on your comment, they are laughably incorrect. NATO has not even touched most of its own warfighting munitions at all, most of the stuff that went to Ukraine was coming to its sell by date and expiring. I'd love RAND to tell me where all the NATOS air forces ordinance is supposed to have vanished too for example, or naval. Your claim just makes no sense whatsoever.
You’re the first one to ask for a source, now source what you said and I’ll comply and source the RAND report. But it’s difficult to believe you have integrity or are interested in sources if you’re not willing to source your own material.
ha ha! nice trolling dude!
> NATO has not even touched most of its own warfighting munitions at al
Horseshit
Then link the report moron.
How do you watch Russians lose a hundred thousand men to take over in a full year an area of Ukraine they basically already almost completely controlled before the invasion and still claim shit this retarded? Complete imbecile
Not a problem because Russia's still racking up a 3:1 K:D ratio
...and other hilarious tales 4chanchuds tell themselves to stop the anxiety attacks.
Better funnel more money to the MIC that is in no way connected with the Rand Corporation
can we see it?
How anyone could believe this kind of bullshit is totally beyond me.
OBVIOUSLY it takes two more weeks, not 3 days.
>sniff sniff, Berlin in 3 days, sniff
>Still cannot take Bakhmut
>Putin could be in Berlin in 3 days.
In a coffin maybe.
Bakhmut is basically subutais favorit tactic, there is a reason they haven't closed of the encirclement
>Putin could be in Berlin in 3 days.
I guess you probably could strap him to a ballistic missile and launch him at Alexanderplatz, so its technically not a lie.
>I guess you probably could strap him to a ballistic missile and launch him at Alexanderplatz, so its technically not a lie.
kek
Then do it. What are you waiting for?
At the bare minimum it's impressive they haven't run out.
>insert qualification to not be called vatnik here
Considering it's primarily Russian equipment versus a bunch of assorted western equipment, it is certainly surprising there are so many total Russia has but maybe I'm just retarded
>At the bare minimum it's impressive they haven't run out.
How is that impressive? You have not lost your last artillery tractor yet to the war you started against the much much smaller neighbour on your border even though you have been ab absolutely thrashed by them militarily. How is that impressive?
>How is that impressive?
Impressive does not necessarily imply a positive outcome
True but its still in no way impressive.
>
dont forget to bump your tread Sir cumrade. or you will loose your shitting street privileges.
Ban request denied.
Tbh this guy would probably feel the comfyest in a trench with shit food and winter cold
Ukraine is basically 1/3rd Russia and started the war with a manpower advantage
It's not like Ukraine is a wittle ittle bitty country. it's the biggest country in Europe besides Russia
It'd be like if America had to fight a smaller version of America
Weird, I remember the cope being
>Ukraine has a small and pathetic army, one of the weakest in Europe
>They are only surviving because of HATO aid
Not too long ago.
Now Ukraine is a serious threats that must be respected, and HATO are akshually terrible?
>By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.
Ukraine has a smaller population than the UK, Germany France etc. Russia is just a worthless fuck up that even though it was far larger and had for more military equipment it could not defeat even though it initiated the invasion and held every advantage initially. Russia sucks. We see that every day here just in the quality of individuals who spam pro Russian noise.
>started the war with a manpower advantage
Lol wut? Russia was the 2nd strongest military on the planet 13 months ago.
>started the war with a manpower advantage
no they didnt, youre basing this off of the wikipedia page which totaled all of ukraine's military personnel vs russia's initial invasion force. this doesnt take into account that the bulk of that number was TDF which were distributed across all of ukraine, whereas Russia was able to mass its forces at its axes of advance, meaning they always had local superiority.
>be Russia
>be drunk
>have bigger country
>have more men
>have the “2nd most powerful military”
>invade neighbor who is smaller with less population but has more troops
>hilarity ensues
First off, not they didn’t have more troops. Secondly, that just makes Russia even more stupid if they did. They had over 3 times the population, more tanks, apcs, jets, helicopters, and should have more manufacturing capacity. If they had a manpower disadvantage, why wouldn’t they wait 6-8 months or a full year and train more troops.
The alternative is they knew Ukraine had more troops, knew they get western gear, knew their own stuff wasn’t up to par, and invaded anyway. You can’t possibly spin any scenario to make them look good.
>ukraine is shit, we will take it in 2 days
>actually, ukraine is very strong, almost HATO, we still have Moscow
Even if russia falls and balkanizes it will continue to live eternally, rent free in your head.
Nobody really thought about russhits as anything more than an angry gremlin that spews some propaganda online.
Now russia sperged out to show the west its might and, uh, it’s not exactly covering itself with glory. You’ll be a rusted laughing stock for the next two decades at the very least.
It's also impressive they haven't bloody stopped, after a very clear massive failure in their 3 day operation.
They can't. They have to win or die.
Is that a killdozer next to the smoke?
It's a house but it does look like killdozer
>Russians have taken far fewer casualties than the Ukrainians
das rite! and moskva made it back to the port under it's own power. also we still control kherson! Z!
Ok mongoloid muttino, see you in bakhmut when they catch your cowardly ass.
>russians gonna lose all of their equipment in this year
sure?
To be clear: this is meant as a demoralization post against Vatniks, right?
Serious question: what would it take to get these operational? And would it be worth it?
a USSR industrial base that Russia does not have. no
The only time and cost effective way would be to throw out all internal parts and replace with new ones. Considering thise aren't being made anymore, it means cannibalizing all of them for good parts, and fitting in "good enough" modern alternatives where possible.
If that's not an option, it means trying really hard to de-rust everything until the moving parts move again and a working engine can be fit in. Will the old parts with rust pits hold up without breaking? Will the gun not explode under pressure? Will the engine hold up? Those are all fun questions for the crews at the front to find out.
The bigger problem, especially with the aircraft, is will the frame hold up under stress. They're made to be usable for a set number of years/flight hours reliably, but that all goes out the window if it sits there rusting and decaying for decades with constant shifts in enviromental conditions. It might look fine on the outside if you fix it up, but you won't know about an internal crack until the wing suddenly snaps off.
if you got enough spare parts enough workers and a repair shop with all tools you may be able to fix 1 out of 10, will still take a while, also russia got no choice, they have to do it regardless if it makes sense or not
APC's and Trucks are going to be easy tier, esp considering alot of Soviet APC's used low Horsepower automotive engines and you can literally swap in a modern V-8 or a COTS diesel from a car.
BTR-50 had a single diesel V-6
MT-LB used a diesel V-8
BTR-60/70 used double gas 6-cylinder engines which were like 180hp combined
BTR-80 made the switch to a single diese in the 220hp rangel but most of these are in service.
A KPV barrel can be changed if its toast - alternatively they can drop in a KPPU or Kliver turret or asimilar
Rusted shit is going to need to get blasted and a repaint.
The biggest issue is going to be electrical, hydraulics, and suspension - this is unironically where tracked vehicles are going to have advantages - the BTR-50 and MT-LB are going to be relatively easier to restore in this state.
As for aircraft?
Mi-2's can be restored readily
Mi-6 "Hook" was taken out of service due to the rotor fatigue life and would be a major issue - besides Mi-26 is still produced and is better in every way
The old fighters?
Fucktons of MiG-23/27 can be operationally restored as can Su-22M
Older MiG's and Sukhoi's can potentially be turned into drones or loitering munitions - MiG-25 and Su-15 are ripe for this
Mi-2 would be easy to return to service - it was not a complicated rotorcraft and Russia has other engines it can swap into it
>The old fighters?
>Fucktons of MiG-23/27 can be operationally restored as can Su-22M
>Older MiG's and Sukhoi's can potentially be turned into drones or loitering munitions - MiG-25 and Su-15 are ripe for this
I doubt the ziggers maintained the records for those airframes, who knows how many were at the end of their life before they went in storage and any restoration will be rushed and incredibly half assed. a rusty btr just stops moving when it breaks, a rusty mig falls out the goddamn sky. fuck that shit
Russia claimed 500 MiG-23 in reserve as of the 2010's.
MiG-27 had a number of issues but they could probably raise 100
The soviet union was absolute dog shit when it came to giving their pilots flight hours, even worse they did shit like pairing/tripling where even though they had more than enough fighters and then some for their pilots, in peacetime the squadron would heavily use a select few airframes and keep the rest in low readiness due to the maintenance concerns. There are probably MiG-23's with fuck all flight hours - but yes records are going to be a problem.
Turning an old aircraft into a missile isn't going to have the same considerations though. Why take a chance with a full restore with no paperwork when you can strap two 1000lb bombs bombs to it, drone ot, and point it at Kiev.
Russia can also turn these old into bunkers, utilizing operational turrets - a la Finland
turn tanks*
Does Russia really have the capability to convert old fighter jets to missiles in meaningful numbers? I thought that requires microchips and electronics that are one of the few things Russia struggles to manufacture domestically.
Russian kamikaze pilots when?
>Russia can also turn these old into bunkers, utilizing operational turrets - a la Finland
Not a viable idea in the age of the precision guided muntion.
Actually have been wondering about that.
That's still the best use for otherwise useless turrets no?
A bit waste of manpower and time, but it is better than than just using trenches and foxholes at main defense line.
Could also be used as a decoys, to force other side to use their guided mutions to clear scrap metal.
Although dragging those all across the country to front lines is probably not the best use of limited trucks and trains.
>Although dragging those all across the country to front lines is probably not the best use of limited trucks and trains.
That’s the problem. Guided munitions are fairly expensive but that isn’t the problem for the west. Even old as M72 LAWs can take out the T62s and older shit that is being sent out now. If it was as simple as started them up and driving them out, sure it’s better than nothing. But it’s not that simple. You have to dedicate a lot of resources to refurbish stuff that is only effective against unsupported infantry with no antitank weapons. That doesn’t happen often. The time, manpower, and resources are much much better used on building new things or things that are actually useful.
Spending your manufacturing capacity on old shit you know will blow up quickly in hopes your enemy runs out of rockets is a retarded strategy.
>The soviet union was absolute dog shit when it came to giving their pilots flight hours
my favourite part was when they wrote themselves "flight hours" by measuring it with spent fuel. Which meant they simply dumped the fuel near the base on the ground. A local well near the old base has still flammable "water" due to all of the contamination seeping into the ground
vatnik union was absolute dogshit, just like its remnants today attempting to kill everyone who was locked in that open air prison with them
>APC's and Trucks are going to be easy tier
You've never touched an engine or even a car in your life, nothing about those rust buckets is ever going to work again. You're either too stupid to breathe on your own, or somehow trying to give the pidorashkas false hope.
I think he means easy compared to fixing something like a helicopter or a jet fighter, which seems like a fair assessment
it reads like this shitty wishful TV ad: Warsaw is just 2 h tank drive just enough for VDV to iron they parade shirt; for Berlin we dont even need maps most officers have been deployed there already and so on
Changing an engine and transmission seems like more than a 5 minute job.
> select a suitable engine and gearbox in manufacture
> design the mods required. At a minimum new engine supports, fuel filters, new air intake and exhaust pipework. Maybe also new radiators, fuel pipework and electrical wiring
> Build a test model
> Field test to confirm it all works under load.
needs just a new engine and it's ready for combat
What was meant by "new" was not "different" but a new/overhauled replacement. Easier said than done depending on who still makes or stocks replacement parts and how large the existing machining and rebuild capacity actually is.
Consumables deteriorate in storage unless loved and periodically inspected US style.
Lol Idk man you can't judge from a bird view
>all those open hatches
Jesus christ, just imagine the amount of rust. Ruskies really didn't give a shit about their condition.
I want to steal all that shit and sell it for scrap.
>I want to steal all that shit and sell it for scrap.
So does every officer in the Russian armed forces.
Nothing quite like storing a bunch of steel vehicles in a swamp with no coverings or protection
>all these fighting vehicles
>absolutely no support vehicles
Is the Russian doctrine literally just continous offensive and throwing everything you have at the enemy and having your soldiers live off the conquered land like some razing steppe horde?
Where are the trucks?
Where are the logistics?
Compare this to NATO vehicles where one combat vehicles has like 4 trucks just to support it
you are not wrong, their doctrine is to attack and maintain initiative at all costs. we are now observing what it looks like when things dont go according to plan
That was the French doctrine until 1915, too.
russian infastructure is so shit they don't bother with it at this point so their war strategy is to have survivors of an attack raid and loot like a bunch of marauding barbarians.
russians are dull and servile too so they can be whipped like serfs into performing any task, webm related
there is still much old equipment
that is not combat effective. that will take years to refurbish. that rusted to shit equipment is already lost
Lets put it like this.
Russia claimed 4000 in service/operational reserve T-64 in 1995. That number shrinked to 2k in the 2000's.
Ukraine had around 3,600 of which it only ever used around 2,400 - using the rest for long term storage/parts and occasionally a hull used for a special vehicle.
We can round Ukraines number up to 4k because why not.
The only other major users are Uzbekistan with 100 tanks. Kazakhstan had 50 and took them out of service
The T-64, like the T-80 was not exported.
That still leaves ~5,000 T-64 that the USSR produced up until 1987
The USSR was producing the T-55 up until 1981 - Russia probably easily has 30k sitting around
The T-62's they are upgrading and returning to service stopped production in 1975 - with over 22,000 made.
That tells me they are sitting on alot of 115mm ammo and AT-10 ATGM's that are probably lacking a use case compared to 100mm ammo used in the myriad of T-55 variants and AT guns
So so wrong on so many levels.
Pathetic
>dies on tetanus
>implying Ukraine is any better off
many even with pre-tossed turrets
and planes, maybe need some paint
Mig-17 when?
MiG-17 were basically all exported away
There were enough MiG-21 made that they could drone-fiy some to be useful in the SEAD role - if only to force a radar paint and eat a SAM for something like a Su-34 to respond to
What are the lawn darts on the left row?
scrap
Ukraine shall tremble before the yak-28 bombing runs covered by mig-17 cap
looks like they have some yak-15s too there so civilian airliners beware too
My peepee is hard now.
also helicopters
vely implessive. Now can we see them move?
all kind of vintage vehicles, carefully preserved
What’s not to say that those “billions” have resulted in Russia’s humiliating stalemate?
Fucking checked. I fucking hope all our money is spent on humiliating putler and killing as many vatniks as possible
Why do you turd worlders not grasp that a billion is pocket change to the American military?
One of the last generation of our politicians had a joke/quote about this exact situation: "boy, you spend a billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you're talking real money!"
After spending 1+trillion dollarinos in the Afghan adventures expansion pack having Russia military power implode for a few billion with no blood is the deal of the century.
Still waiting for the Ukrainians to throw down their weapons and join their Russian brothers. The West will never understand. And then
>We'll all be dining in Kiev by tomorrow.
>Think tank: trans rights are human right, white supremacy is the greatest threat to democracy
>PrepHole: think tanks are meaningless bro, they're controlled by the garden gnomes
>Think tank: Russia is losing, Ukraine is winning
>PrepHole: Based! Russia BTFO'd!
How's that divide and conquer strategy working out for you, Ivan?
>get upset at an obvious lie
>agree with obvious truth
>reeeee why are you acting differently
You fags are pathetic
I guess much ist just scrap metal.
These tank hulls have been stripped of everything and most of them are cut in half for later disposal.
2 more weeks my dudies, trust the plan.
> If its just 0.04% why are we sending billions that way?
It is undeniably funny to see an irredentist country with muh #2 army in the world that larps as the continuation of our former competitor invade their former vassal and get bogged down 20 miles away from the border
Finest entertainment you can buy for… what, $250/person?
You should be less worried about what it's costing Russia and what it's costing Ukraine. A lot of Ukrainian soldiers are dead too and and Russia can win a war of attrition. This is why NATO needs to stop with the bullshit, and just flood Ukraine with as much military hardware as possible. ATACMs fucking NOW.
>why are we sending billions that way?
You are sending billions to your own manufacturing facilities to replace the outdated Bradleys you'll never actually use that you're tossing to Ukraine to fulfill your minimum commitments under the Budapest Memorandum. You are literally spending those billions on your own workers, own people, own army to fulfill your basic geopolitical objectives
>B-BUT KEKER NEVER TOLD ME THIS
Cucker was too busy shitting himself when his text messages leaked and it turns out he hates Trump more than most Democrats do.
False.
How dare they help the US economy like that, we are conservatives we want to conserve the good old days of 2008
you mean when she bumbled about "100k dead officers" which is obviously implausible and her secretary later corrected it as 100k casualties
>"100k dead officers" which is obviously implausible
It included homogay nafo generals that got killed en-masse
Stop foaming at the mouth.
The same woman who described Gepards defending the airspace with "tubes which can shoot very far away"?
The 9 month battle that was supposed to last one week?
What equipment?
At least she seemed to genuinely care about those guys.
I just realized it was the second Russian woman who cared about other Russians I've seen since... Novodvorskaya?
Oof. While Russia badly needs to lose this you can't help but feel for the poor fucking infantry being sent forward by a country which doesn't even have the decency to look after those it's sending to war.
If they keep it up, they'll keep getting fucked when China realizes it can carve its pound of flesh from Russian soil. Then the conscription could continue until half of Russia gets annexed and the other half gets laughed at.
Not even I want Russian randos to get stomped by Chinks.
To keep it at 0.04%. I hate foreign aid but this is the most efficient use of military dollars since WWII
Ukraine was expected to lose a year ago. Russia could officially win tomorrow and it’s still embarrassing
biggest battle of the war was in march of 2022 and russia got fucked. since then it's just a clean up which might take a while but result would be the same - russia has lost.
>biggest battle of the war so far.
Has there been a battle in this war with more casualties/resources committed?
Unfortunately for Ukraine it doesn't matter how a war begins. Russia underestimated them, got smacked early on, but it appears the tide has turned.
>memoryholing the Kyiv deathstack
>select all units
>click on objective
>but it appears the tide has turned.
Lol. Lmao
Are the T-62s turning the tide? Or is it the shovels?
Ukrainians are losing to prisoners with shovels? Dang.
Ukraine is currently losing the biggest battle of the war to prisoners with shovels.
Russia is completely depleted . its over.
Really? Can you show us the tide turning?
>but it appears the tide has turned.
may we see it?
No
>Has there been a battle in this war with more casualties/resources committed?
Kyiv.
>Argies too embarrassed to admit toilet percentage
>taken far fewer casualties
No they did not, gay. russia at this point is suffering 150k casualties and god knows how many are actually dead. I also wouldn't count on them having a good medical care to bring down the amount of preventable deaths or permanent injuries.
>Kiev suffers over 100,000 fatalities in blackmutt
>NO-O NO its you zigger
So tiresome
Go home then
Esl
Not even WWII germany under day and night bombardment lost all their equipment, scarcity yes, not that many, yes, but we will always see vatnik vehicles and tanks.
>No mumbling either
BUMbling, retard. and yes, she did say officers.
Fucking hell, how does it feel to live with a brain like a chicken breast?
>lying
The absolute state. She revealed the extent of casualties and it was deleted because it was supposed to be classified. Stay mad.
I don't want to jinx it one way or the other. Russians seem content at this point to attrit and solidify their own lines. Outside of the Donbas Oblast, they don't seem to be overly concerned about taking more ground.
Even with 5:1 ratios, the Ukrainians have lost thousands of men too. Soon they are going to be 100% reliant upon NATO tech because such a large portion of their experienced soldiers will be crippled or dead.
Remember that Ukraine needs to go on the OFFENSIVE, which almost always has higher casualties than the defender. Ukrainians seem to be more skilled the Russians, but they aren't a nation of Navy Seals and they are new to the equipment, so time will tell how well they can counter-attack.
I will admit that I was full of super-hopium last fall after the collapse of Kharkiv and Kherson [city], but Le Butcher Man was actually semi-competent and the Russians have spent months now solidifying the lines and have more numbers now due to the draft.
Euros have been asleep at the wheel for 30+ years now and they don't have half the Leopards to donate they were pretending they did. Honest to God, the best route for Ukraine to get tanks at this point is probably using Abrams, the USA has thousands sitting in storage and if we spent a couple billion we could set up a big refurbishing plant to add/remove certain pieces for export.
> Outside of the Donbas Oblast, they don't seem to be overly concerned about taking more ground.
They’re super concerned. Just not capable
They just had an entire winter offensive across the donetsk and luhansk front
I suppose you can argue that russia has some vague goal of securing the strip of land they have taken over, but they show desperation to kick ukies out of the rest of Donetsk and Luhansk
> And third, the Russians have taken far fewer casualties
Nope. Cope.
In terms of military casualties it’s pretty consistently been around a 1:7 to 1:10 ratio almost every day. Only way you could possibly argue that Ukraine has had more casualties is if you count all the civilians Russians have killed, but even that would likely be a stretch.
How do you know that if Ukrainian casualties are suppressed? Genuinely asking.
Not that Anon but I'll take a shot. We don't know what Ukrainian casualties are. That said, we can make inferences based on logic, deductive reasoning, and publicly available evidence. What we do know:
1. Ukraine is defending and has fortified the area. Giving them numerous advantages.
2. Russia is attacking in human waves which is prone to high casualties.
3. Russia no longer has massive artillery superiority.
4. Video and photo evidence has come out showing big Russian casualties.
5. Previous wars had much higher casualty rates for infantry assaulting fortified positions.
8. Multiple claims from Ukrainian sources about positive casualty-to-loss rates.
7. Russian mill blogger complaints about Russian casualties and poor tactics
8. A lack of success on the ground for Russia.
9. Ukraine's previous retreats when casualty-to-loss rates became unfavorable
10. Near unanimous consensus among Ukrainians political and military leadership about defending Bakhmut
11. No appreciable advantage in military skill among the attackers or defenders.
How could Russia, without any significant advantages in aviation, artillery, vehicles, experience, etc.., be inflicting anywhere close to equal casualties while frontally assaulting fortified positions? This would also have to go against everything we know from history, OSINT data, and the reports from Russian sources and so on. If they were inflicting massive casualties on Ukraine, why hasn't Bakhmut fallen? Where are the photos to match the Russian dead? They should be making rapid advances with an equal casualty-to-loss rate. If f the loss rates are so poor, why hasn't Ukraine retreated? Ukraine doesn't have unlimited manpower, their leaders aren't idiots, they've retreated from bad situations before. There's more but you get the idea.
Sorry, but all I can read there is “because I want it to be true”. If Ukrainian losses are so low why does the west suppress casualty figures? Why does so much of the go pro footage (often posted by foreign volunteers) reek of rank amateurism and often end in one for one losses? A few months ago defence analysts on mainstream news were happy to point out how high the Ukrainian losses were, but now they seem to not get asked about it.
Ursula’s deleted claim of over 100k service deaths https://apa.az/en/europe/european-commission-deleted-the-part-from-ursula-von-der-leyens-address-on-death-of-more-than-100000-ukrainian-servicemen-updated-390674
Are you seriously suggesting that Russia has lost between 500k - 700k and that’s a serious estimate? WP reckons it’s 120k Ukrainian to Russia’s 200k.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/13/ukraine-casualties-pessimism-ammunition-shortage/
>Russian bloggers
And Ukrainian leaders are publicly calling for a withdrawal from bahkmut and saying they have no experienced soldiers left as they’ve all be killed
>why hasn’t bahkmut fallen
UK MoD posts have been talking about the Russian advances there
Honestly getting tired of the stupidity of fan boys of both sides. I’ve just scrolled up and reread the retarded ratio claim. 10:1 - so a million Russians are dead? Ridiculous.
I miss PrepHole.
> If Ukrainian losses......
There is no reason to provide the enemy with intelligence. If it is low, and you want him to attack, why would you tell him? If it is high, and you don't want him to attack, why would you tell him?
>Why does so much of the go pro.......
I haven't seen any obvious difference in the professionalism of the combatants in released go pro footage, drone footage, or UAV footage. The vast majority of the footage released online and categorized by OSINT collectors for losses is dramatically in favour of Ukraine. Either Russians are supressing their successes, or they don't exist. I suggest you watch more footage.
>A few months ago defence analysts.......
That might be your perception, but it is not reflected in any serious analysis. Russia DID amplify a number of mistakes in western reporting (and politicians like Von der Leyens misspeaking) about Ukrainian casualties vs. KIA a few months back. They tried to amplify Ukrainians having 100K KIA when actual estimates were 100K casualties. Russia has done their best to spam 100K KIA everywhere they could. Further, casualties overall, are not casualties in Bakhmut. Ukraine might take big losses in Kherson, and much lower losses in Bakhmut for instance. Actual casualties estimates for the entire war vary but most estimates peg them around 400K for Russia and 130K for Ukraine. Around 30K dead+100K wounded for Ukraine and 140K dead + 260K wounded for Russia. Better training, equipment, medical access, evacuation, defending, etc.. accounts for the disparity in how many wounded survive. Don't forget, many wounded return to service
>https://www.washingtonpost.....
That article identifies a number of people attempting to correct the reporting while they were trying to write the article (about losses, strategy, etc..) , but the author refused to listen and instead went with their own narrative. Their unnamed source was attempting to elicit sympathy for more western support.
makes sense
No they actually have 3000 T14s and 1000 SU57s in reserve with the crews that aren’t brainlets, Z is in control trust the plan! Only 2 more weeks Zisters
>Romania worse off than Brazil
Huechads keep winning
If you ever find that you're comparing yourself to Romania, you have already lost
>he thinks Gypsies are something to measure yourself against
Anon…
more russian rustbuckets
Lmao the difference is that Russia at least have gained territory this month. Ukies have lost just as much equipment and they have 0.04% less of their land despite their best efforts
But they killed 1 Predator drone
That's what you said last year.