Armor And Gear Thread

i just bought these 150$ plates from Tactical Scorpion gear, and ive been doing research on them, and they seem to be good to go. they can take 5.56 greentip like a champ. they are lvl 3+. what does PrepHole think of them?

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >level 3+ plates
    into the trash

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      but the price anon.....

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >tfw I got a pair of Hesco 4401's for $210 mid pandemic.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Anything over level 3A is illegal here and it's almost impossible to find anything stronger than that.
      That sucks.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        where

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Brownzil.
          And only soft bodyarmor is allowed, hard plates are prohibited, even the polymer ones.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >ar500

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ceramic plates can't handle multiple rounds in the same area. Once a ceramic plate is hit, it normally shatters upon impact. It's great at stopping 1-3 rounds, but steel is better at stopping multiple bullets. Ceramic plates are much more expensive than steel plates. also, its not technically ar500. its ar650

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous
        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Animu?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Kemono Friends. Haven't seen it, but I'm a sucker for nice teeth and goddamn those are nice teeth.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous
      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The cringiest poorfag cope. You expecting two synchronized snipers to hit your heart at the same time bro? Delusional fag, you plate can't withstand a hit of many many more types of calibers because it's a made up 3+ "rating" gtfooh

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If you're taking "multiple" hits to a steel plate, you're probably getting shot elsewhere too. (and the spalling just ripped your carotid open)

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Wrap it in quarter inch thick duct tape of half inch thick duct tape.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            60% of the time it works 100% of the time

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              it works all the time, it's been tested, it can last 60 rounds before the tape allows spalling to occur

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                As a rule of thumb, solutions involving duct tape aren't good or lasting ones. Spall catching isn't that hard. Duct tape might work, but it's not the right way to do it.

                I've also seen demonstrations of making ceramic body armor from floor tiles. It's a thing you could do, if you lack other options. It's not what you should do.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Cope, seethe, mald, and most importantly dilate

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    im gonna tag one of em with 5.56 at 40ft, just to test em

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      With how long a barrel?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        20 inch

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That'll be a good test then

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sorry homie but you made a bad choice, those plates lose to m193 traveling at 3300fps, what you need is that UHMWPE body armor, the UHMWPE won't allow any shrapnel from killing you and it's the best type of body armor on the market, it's expensive though. If I were you I would just cut out an inch thick worth of plastic sheets and press them together with some JB weld then press that stack of sheets onto your plate with more JB weld, hold it until it fully fuses and then you got something good that won't kill you from shrapnel, seriously, the steel plates are dangerous as fuck because the shrapnel actually embeds itself in your neck and jaw and skull and face, you will die from bleed out or worse off die from shrapnel piercing your skull.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      could i bedliner them?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yes, do it

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >UHMWPE won't allow any shrapnel from killing you and it's the best type of body armor on the market, it's expensive though.
      Not right now it's not, $40 per 10"x12" at sportsmans guide. Also not the best, won't stop steel core.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >UHMWPE won't allow any shrapnel from killing you and it's the best type of body armor on the market, it's expensive though.
      Not right now it's not, $40 per 10"x12" at sportsmans guide. Also not the best, won't stop steel core.

      Almost no pure UHMWPE plate will stop steel core (some extra-thick boutique PE plates will), but it will stop high velocity rounds like the common 55 grain M193, which even 3+ rated steel fails against.

      The Italian surplus SG plates are a great deal for lightweight PE armor. Any threat on the streets will likely be 55 grain M193 or 7.62x39 commercial lead FMJ, so you're covered there. Some SG reviewers covered the front of the Italian plates with a layer or two of cheap Home Depot alumina oxide-based bathroom tiles, and that combo stopped M855s without a problem. If you want cheap ceramic/PE combo plates new from the factory, Botach and a dozen other suppliers can hook you up for $140-160 each. Botach apparently gets theirs from a Chinese military supplier that "diverts" production from the PLA supply chain, so they're better than the usual Chinesium; their III+ and IV plates are $140 each, Buffman tested both and they worked fine for what they were rated for.

      tl;dr: OP fell for the steel meme.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        steel seems to work fine for most of the world

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Post 5 examples. 5 from "most of the world" should be easy.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The botach plates are the same shit as the lapg plates and have a 1 inch foam cheat ring and are not nij certified. At the prices you're spouting op is better off with actually nij certified rma level 4 ceramics. You dumb fuck.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >RMA
          >fiberglass from the 60s
          >8.3 lbs for level IV shooters cut when everyone else is 6 lbs or less

          Check out Buffman's latest Botach vids. Edge to edge ceramic, and they stop what they advertise, NIJ cert or not. I assume the PLA have introduced new plates over the years, and Botach's suppliers just send them batches of what they're currently making for the PLA. Botach just repackages it all under the same SKU, even though the plates they're selling are far different internally than the ones they sold even a year ago.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            To make matters even worse, RMA keeps lying about their plates. They're actually LESS ethical and reliable than Botach.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Steel plates should have the edges wrapped in a sheet of kevlar to defeat spall after it rips through the liner. You don't need that kind of absurd capture. And the bedliner they come with are fine for a couple shots

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Steel plates should have the edges wrapped in a sheet of kevlar to defeat spall

        Except no one sells that. "Spall" liners are invariably four layers of uhmwpe or aramid that go in front of the plate. Either you just wrongly assume that's what's going to keep shrapnel out of your neck or the entire industry doesn't know what they're are doing. Honestly it could go either way.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You can buy kevlar on amazon ffs. You can cut it to size with truma sheers. Yes it's something you have to do yourself, and yes it's a prerequisite to steel plates being trustworthy, but if you want steel that's what you have to do. And because you can, you can't just disqualify steel. Poors do have options. Thin steel with a custom kevlar wrap, or heavy thick ceramics.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Pros:
        > Cheap
        > Mostly works against rated threats. Will stop everything IIIA and most Level III
        > It's a steel plate- will last literally forever
        > No worries about breaking if dropped or if you jump on it in your PC
        Cons:
        > Poor performance vs M193 ball and expect poor vs next-gen threats like 6.8 sig fury
        > Heavy. For same weight, you can get Hesco 44xx or RMA 1155 and have a level 4 plate
        > Truck liner bed anti-spall coating "sort of " works but kinda sucks.. uncoated plates WILL sent hot fragments into your neck/arms/etc. as countless videos online have shown. Get an anti-spall bag if you went with poorfag uncoated plates

        There's a test on youtube where they wrapped an ar500 plate in a 1/4 inch of Duct Tape and it worked as an excellent spall liner, with the plate failing before the spall protection did. Why they still ship the shitty truck bed liner when they really should be wrapping the edges in aramid, nylon, or some other spall catching matrix is beyond me. They must be making a killing on those plates and don't care about shipping an inferior product.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Bruh you can get lvl Botach or RMA for 145 per plate.
    See if you can still get some surplus police Kevlar off eBay to not get spall.

    https://www.ebay.com/usr/middleislandauctions?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2559

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      lvl 4*

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Remember to not buy second chance armor.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah I got RMA during the 2020 pandemic/chimpouts for pretty cheap.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The armor you linked is probably defective, the company went bankrupt after the government sued them.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >steel plates

    Barely good as targets, you got bamboozled son

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Steel is light & cheap. It is better than not having anything. Tsg sells a cover you can put on your plate to help catch spalling.
    I got my gear for under 400 when the ceramic being mentioned here would have been almost double the weight and cost with side plates.
    Are there better choices? I'm certain but, sometimes we have to balance our own pros and cons in the actual world.
    I'll put the savings into training, water storage and food preps rather than on the 5% chance shrapnel killing me if I get shot in a specific 10x12 inch spot on my body.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      finally someone who isn't mentally challenged.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >tsg
      Any link?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Little tight but still fit in my tetsu.
        Tsg is apparently imports cheap chinese stuff but at 1/3 the price, I'll try it.

        https://tacticalscorpiongear.com/body-armor/spall-blocker.html

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Lmfao you stupid fucks, the price of these shits after shipping plus what you spend on plates. You could get real level 4 plates by that point baka. There are sites that even let you finance them interest free for 6 months you fucking losers.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Finance? Holy shit, you fucks are actually retarded.
            They offer free shipping.
            $45.01 delivered.
            Still about $300 cheaper than the cheapest ceramics I found & half the weight.
            Finance! Bwhahaha.... thanks for the kek.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Steel... light and cheap. It's steel and it cost him as much as a real nij certified rma level 4 ceramic plate. You are an idiot and lie like a child.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >400
      on steel and vest
      Steel was a debatable idea when it came out at 200$ for a carrier, sides, and two plates. Now that same Spartan kit is 344.94$ less than two RMA1155s and a cheap plate carrier.

      https://www.spartanarmorsystems.com/spartan-omega-ar500-body-armor-and-sentinel-plate-carrier-package/

      https://rmadefense.com/store/body-armor/level-iv-body-armor/plate-set-of-2-1155/

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You gonna get kilt in da skreets

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Steel plates are pretty ok. They'll stop all pistol ammo and almost all common threats, with some exceptions of square-on hits by high-velocity ammunition, and of course good armor-piercing ammo. Ceramic plates will stop some of that high-velocity ammo, but on the other hand, it won't resist backface deformation nearly as well, so a lot of what doesn't penetrate can still punch you hard in the ribs, maybe hard enough to put you out of the fight, and it still fails to good (tungsten) armor-piercing ammo. Backface deformation and injury-without-penetration on steel plates is basically a non-issue. Ceramic plates are better at catching bullets so you don't get pieces deflected into your arms or something. Ceramic plate performance can be poor near the edges, while steel is generally equally strong right up to the edge. Steel plates are heavier, but ceramic plates are thicker and bulkier. Steel plates are more durable and won't be damaged by rough handling, and it's more reasonable to go on using them for an extended period after they take hits (which could be relevant in some really bad SHTF situations).

    All in all, I think it's just a matter of preference. They're both very protective, and wearing either, you're more likely to die of being shot around the armor than through it. If you're an overloaded soldier, you probably want the lighter weight of ceramic, and with your buddies supporting you and medevac available, you're probably not going to die of getting some ribs broken from backface deformation and becoming unable to fight, plus you're facing battlefield weapons, not just assault rifles but battle rifles, sniper rifles, and machine guns, so penetration resistance is a top priority (and sometimes inadequate despite choosing the best available armor). A civilian or cop is mostly going to face lesser penetration threats, might prefer the comfort of thinner steel plates, and might be fighting alone where becoming unable to fight means death.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    BigC

    >steel armor
    why buy this when ceramic/poly plates are so cheap?
    this shit would have made more sense like 15 years ago, but there's no reason now

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Never realized Hescos had a bunch of recalls, are my 4400s still gtg or no? Got them back in 2020 if that makes any difference

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      4401 single curves are NIJ listed last time I checked. The multi curve failed bfd measurements and was delisted, if memory serves

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Bros, I went through a lot of research, and I found out that steel armor plates are superior, it's because when going over peoples' firsthand experiences I found out that when people were shot when wearing ceramic plates, they had internal injuries such as broken ribs and bruised skin and bruised hearts, but I never once heard the same thing for people who wore steel plates. Steel plates are superior in every way, the only thing you need to do with them is wrap them with a quarter to half an inch thickness with duct tape to prevent all spalling, and duct tape is cheap and lightweight.
    >ceramic when shot causes broken ribs and internal injuries
    >steel wrapped in duct tape causes no broken ribs and no internal injuries whatsoever
    Duct taped wrapped steel plates are superior to any other form of body armor.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >going over peoples' firsthand experiences
      A steel plate's protection is all-or-nothing. Either the bullet will penetrate or there will be negligible backface deformation. Ceramic plates can have very different amounts of backface deformation without penetration. But ceramic plates will also stop some threats from penetrating, that would penetrate a steel plate.

      The trouble with your reasoning is that you're only listening to the survivors. You're not hearing the complaints of any dead men who wore steel plates. Level III steel armor is specified to stop something like an AK-47 with ball ammunition. Level IV ceramic armor is specified to stop something like a 30-06 with steel-core armor-piercing ammunition, something that is not that rare on the battlefield, especially when your enemies know your guys often wear body armor. When you get near the limits of what your ceramic plate can stop, you're going to get hurt by the backface deformation. But if you were wearing steel armor, it would just penetrate and you'd die.

      There are some edge cases, where you'll get serious backface deformation on a ceramic plate but there's no risk of penetrating a steel plate, like with a shotgun slug, but generally speaking, you wouldn't be better off wearing a steel plate when you get your ribs broken under your ceramic plate.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >.300 Win Mag AP or equivalent isn't that rare on the battlefield, especially when the enemy knows you're wearing armor
        (x) Doubt
        What actually isn't rare on "the battlefield" when they know you're wearing pl8s is them aiming for your face and pelvis with whatever rifle they happened to bring with them.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >>.300 Win Mag AP
          Level IV is certified for .30-06 AP, not any magnum cartridge. And not the good AP either, just a hardened steel penetrator. Steel core AP ammo isn't terribly expensive or very rare. It's not just for body armor, it also helps penetrate unarmored and lightly-armored vehicles and light cover, so it has wide applicability. You can blow right through Level IV ceramic plates with tungsten bullets in common, non-magnum cartridges.

          >30-06 with steel-core armor-piercing ammunition
          I don't think any country in which he us fought against has used that caliber and type in war, it's mostly ak's, i think that brand of ammo got discontinued after ww2.

          Yeah, the Level IV standard is kind of stupid. That is literally the only threat it's tested against: a medium-speed steel-core .30 cal bullet. Plus it only has to survive one hit per plate, well away from the edge, and can have a significant number of failures-to-protect in the test series and still pass, not to mention being allowed to have an amount of back deformation to cause serious injury on stops considered successful (backface deformation standard is based on a "most goats we hit this hard in the ribs were still alive after 24 hours" standard). It's not even rated for the most basic 5.56 ball (though all Level IV plates I know of will stop it anyway).

          Various sorts of AP ammo do see plenty of use, though.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The NIJ velocity spec for ".30-06 AP" is high enough as to be unrealistic with actual .30-06 beyond contact range. It's higher than the muzzle velocity of an M1 Garand shooting M2 AP.
            From the distances somebody would actually be tagging you with ".30-06 AP" you would need to have that projectile coming out of a .300 WM to still be at or above 2880 fps.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Fair enough, but "at or above" the Level IV standard threat isn't the point, so much as above the Level III standard threat. Level IV certification allows a high probability of serious (but survivable) injury when hit with the Level IV standard threat, and offers no reassurances for any higher threat. You can come a way down from there and still have stuff that will hurt you through Level IV plates and penetrate steel plates.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Maybe they're worried about bubba's pissin' hot AP handloads.

              [...]
              NIJ stands for national institute of justice it makes sense for them to use domestic calibers as well as have a "realistically impenetrable by any reasonably available civilian ammo" standard.
              US military uses its own body armor standards which includes XSAPI which can stop 7.62 nato tungsten core m993 though even the earliest ESAPI standard is equivalent or superior to NIJ level IV
              both standards seem to allow the same backface deformation as well but I don't really see the point in anything past level NIJ level iii which will stop any reasonable threat

              You could make a case for III+ due to the small but statistically significant amounts of 7.62x39 MSC and M855 floating around the domestic market, which will pen ordinary steel and PE IIIs. It's an edge case, but it's out there, and much more prevalent than old M2AP.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Chinese steel x39 will ping ar500? I got a few boxes.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I realized my mistake (typing faster than my brain can think) and was just about to move the steel part into a different sentence about being penned by M193 out of 20", but thanks to Hiromoot's amazingly wonky site code, the post got sent before I could edit that part. It happens.

                Still, steel IIIs can be penned by basic bitch M193 out of an A2 clone, so you still have a case for ceramic/PE III+ plates.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                NIJ needs to drastically update it's ratings. It's absolutely insane how the entire concept absolutely lacks ratings for THE MOST COMMON THREAT IN US AND WORLDWIDE but includes a fucking steel core .30-06.

                As a Europoor, I thank the lord daily for VPAM, but it's a pain in the ass to find a VPAM-rated armor from reputable manufacturer.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >THE MOST COMMON THREAT IN US AND WORLDWIDE
                what's that

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                5.56x45mm and 7.62x39mm, the main intermediaries. 5.45x39mm and the chinese 5.8mm too, but in a sense of extra protection.

                Armor rated for 5.56x45mm FMJ or even M855, as well as 7.62x39 FMJ, would be lighter than III armor, but much more protective, since III suffers against M193 unless it's a magical + revision.

                Plates like these are already made, some dub them "Special Threats" autismaly, but having them be inducted into NIJ would both improve III by forcing it to elevate to III+ specs in order to provide linearity from ST armor, and offer consumers an alternative, lighter, and perhaps even soft armor to deal with threats they desire (5.56, 7.62x39) and drop threats they don't (7.62x51 FMJ).

                As part of this modification, IV would have to elevate from .30-06 to 7.62x51 steel core, or even tungsten core, in other words shifting III up to ESAPI, IV to XSAPI and introducing SAPI as the Special Threats plate.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Interestingly the weight thing is reversed thanks to UHMWPE: all-PE level III armor that easily stops 7.62x51 NATO FMJ is often lighter than III+ plates that stop M855 and 7.62x39 MSC, simply since III+ has to be either thicker, or use a ceramic strike face, driving up weight. The only exception I've seen to this is Hesco's 210 series, which stops 5.56/7.62x39 but not 7.62x51, mainly because it's a bare ceramic plate with a very thin backer.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The ratings made sense back in the '80s and '90s before surplus M855 became available commercially in the US, but the NIJ has dragged their feet ever since. They were going to release 0101.07 in 2019 or so, but then COVID happened and shit hit the fan. There was a draft 0101.07 document released that broke things into Handgun/HG and Rifle/RF sections (and broke III into RF1 and RF2, the latter giving more protection against steel core 5.56) but that's been about it ever since.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >30-06 with steel-core armor-piercing ammunition
        I don't think any country in which he us fought against has used that caliber and type in war, it's mostly ak's, i think that brand of ammo got discontinued after ww2.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >>.300 Win Mag AP
          Level IV is certified for .30-06 AP, not any magnum cartridge. And not the good AP either, just a hardened steel penetrator. Steel core AP ammo isn't terribly expensive or very rare. It's not just for body armor, it also helps penetrate unarmored and lightly-armored vehicles and light cover, so it has wide applicability. You can blow right through Level IV ceramic plates with tungsten bullets in common, non-magnum cartridges.

          [...]
          Yeah, the Level IV standard is kind of stupid. That is literally the only threat it's tested against: a medium-speed steel-core .30 cal bullet. Plus it only has to survive one hit per plate, well away from the edge, and can have a significant number of failures-to-protect in the test series and still pass, not to mention being allowed to have an amount of back deformation to cause serious injury on stops considered successful (backface deformation standard is based on a "most goats we hit this hard in the ribs were still alive after 24 hours" standard). It's not even rated for the most basic 5.56 ball (though all Level IV plates I know of will stop it anyway).

          Various sorts of AP ammo do see plenty of use, though.

          NIJ stands for national institute of justice it makes sense for them to use domestic calibers as well as have a "realistically impenetrable by any reasonably available civilian ammo" standard.
          US military uses its own body armor standards which includes XSAPI which can stop 7.62 nato tungsten core m993 though even the earliest ESAPI standard is equivalent or superior to NIJ level IV
          both standards seem to allow the same backface deformation as well but I don't really see the point in anything past level NIJ level iii which will stop any reasonable threat

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Get yourself some well tested stand alone plates with additional soft armor inserts. Please throw away your chinesium ramen noodle armor.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Any of you spergs have any idea on what plates Leaf soldiers would have been issued back in 2008- 2012? I deployed around then, and all we knew was that we got steel plates snd the high speed guys got ceramics. Was that steel A4500? Any specific brand? Just interested in collection, info. Thanks.

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