Arena APS

If the Russians have already developed and produced a functioning, export-ready APS, why don't we see it anywhere? If Russian commanders knew they were heading into insurgent country, and waiting for Arena-M in 2025(?) meant ordering crews to weld cuck cages to turret roofs, why not lobby to get it installed on every frontline tank beforehand? Any quartermaster can see that even if ~250 of Russia's almost 900 tank losses could've been averted, the system would basically pay for itself.

Description: http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/EQP/arena.html
Manufacturer's website: https://www.kbm.ru/en/production/saz/368.html

  1. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because like every other Russian wunderwaffe, it either doesn't exist or the funds were stolen to fund a new yacht.

  2. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >even if ~250 of Russia's almost 900 tank losses could've been averted, the system would basically pay for itself.
    you make a compelling point, but what if instead I buy new marble countertops for my dacha?

  3. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >imagine be near Russian automatic kill system that can shoot you any moment because Russian electronics

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      At least the chance of getting shot might convince some of the crews not to bail out at the slightest breeze. It'd be the culmination of Russian electronics, The Robotic Commissar.

  4. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why does every Russian defensive measure seem to be made to kill friendly infantry?

  5. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because the cost of American lives and Russian lives are different. You are looking at it like the government believes their lives are worth something, this is the wrong perspective.
    They have a lot of inventory to clear out. Simple as.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      But something many often forget is that people do have extrinsic value that can be measured. I'm not talking about religion or philosophy. What I'm talking about are training costs. The most expensive part of a tank should always be it's crew, and if it isn't you've just wasted money on an eye-wateringly expensive coffin. This is why the west spends such a high amount on making sure it's tanks are up to date. It's not because we have a "wunderwaffe fetish" as vatniks and reformers claim, but because the cost of losing a veteran crew is so great that utterly dwarfs even multi-million dollar systems like APS and CITV. The Russian mentality of "send in the tanks" without regard for crew safety is pretty inefficient; a better method would be to take the money you would've spent upgrading or manufacturing a T-72B3M, and putting in a bonfire. Both options have pretty much the same battlefield outcome, except with the latter those three men spend the next forty years contributing to the Russian economy instead of going up in a propellant-fuelled inferno because they wandered into an ambush with the turret facing backwards. Not to mention Russia's apocalyptic demographics.

      Russia's "cheap" inventory clearing approach has cost them HUNDREDS of times more than sending in fewer trained, veteran crews in T-90Ms and T-72B2s would at any given point and Russia knows it.The reason they do this isn't for any combat related reason, but simply because the Russian army was'nt designed to actually fight, but to look intimidating to the west and it's own people/senior leadership. Effectiveness outside "spreadsheet say we have all the tank and nuke. ROSSIYA STRONK" is actively discouraged, lest it pose a threat to tthose in power.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >except with the latter those three men spend the next forty years contributing to the Russian economy
        they'll probably be mugging people for vodka money

  6. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Odds are it straight up doesn't work, and Russians don't want to demonstrate that their "export ready" system doesn't actually work.

  7. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Assuming it actually exists you can probably count the number they've actually made on your fingers, maybe toes too if we're being generous. Anything worth a shit is parade queen turf.

    Between corruption and just flat not having the funds to actually widely deploy it these "super amazing" things the Russians have or claim to have are effectively not a thing in practice. The last amazing things they have in any real numbers were amazing around the fall of the USSR, not now, and are often in a state of disrepair or otherwise neglected. Also a lot of the amazing stuff from more recent times is only amazing on paper. In practice it's always got glaring weaknesses (like their autoloaders turning tanks into bootleg space programs) and very likely comes with an impressively bad dud rate while the funding that would've prevented that goes to putting a solid gold toilet in some oligarch's yacht.

    They've also already made themselves look pretty incompetent with this whole "special operation" and the failures with it. Even if they have this stuff last thing they want is to throw their amazing fancy new APS or something like the T-14 in only for it to be embarrassing trash. That would RUIN them when it comes to weapons exporting if their best tech was worthless.

  8. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because APS is expensive, It's the same reason why they use dumb free fall bombs intead of PGMs

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      This is another shitty decision - the cost of guided weapons is greatly offset by the fact that you need less of them for the same result, less expensive sorties, less aircraft, much much lower risk of airframe/pilot loss etc.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Russia and prior the Soviet Union has always sucked in terms of microelectronics/chips, which is why their PGM's have always been way less advanced and more costly to develop than western ones.
        Then add the main "lesson" they learned from WW2 where having greater numbers trumped quality and technological sophistication

  9. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    because it costs money
    probably doesn’t work as good as advertised
    and will probably turn the infantry around to minced meat

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Russian tanks
      >Infantry support
      Lol. Lmao, even. APS systems cost money and only became viable around the late 80s, AKA around the time the USSR was collapsing. By the time the Russian economy had bounced back enough for them to consider tank upgrades, the Soviet bureaucracy had been replaced with 15 layers of corrupt, underpaid, mob-affiliated officers who all needed their cut, and so "modernization" programs even now tend to boil down to "Let's give it more ERA".

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >andrey leaves 24V switch on because he’s retarded
        >the entire crew sits outside + infantry/ maintenance crews
        >bang
        >everyone is dead

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      while writing

      >andrey leaves 24V switch on because he’s retarded
      >the entire crew sits outside + infantry/ maintenance crews
      >bang
      >everyone is dead

      i thought for myself
      russian tanks dont have APUs so maybe it’s also a case that they can’t mount them on tanks with aged batteries because of the added current draw

  10. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >If the Russians have already developed and produced a functioning, export-ready APS, why don't we see it anywhere?

    While an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I think in this case we can safely assume that no such APS exists.

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