Are shotguns less than ideal for modern day use?
>rifles for hunting
>rifles/pistols for home defense
>pistols for edc/ccw
Outside of fowl hunting what is the point of a shotgun again? It seems to do everything worse than other options.
Are shotguns less than ideal for modern day use? >rifles for hunting. >rifles/pistols for home defense
with a shotgun you can dryfire it around your house because the pump sounds cool, so you don't have to drive all the way to the range. you just have to make monster sounds with your mouth.
Made me laugh.
Because True men shotgun chads fight imaginary Doom hell demons around the house.
>Even makes the exagerated double barrel shell ejection noises with mouff
and FEAR talking in slow motion
>FLAASHLIIIGHT
>fires imaginary incendiary rounds
>murmur screaming in agony
What else am I supposed to do on my day off?
Come fuck around and find out bitch.
While I'd agree that a carbine or rifle is a superior HD tool a shotgun isn't far behind. Meanwhile they are less expensive and also more available in cuckstates.
But fundamentally yeah, a shotgun is a tool for point-shooting at small fast-moving objects. It's for hunting birds and small game or clay sports. while it can do other things that is its primary function, as much as larpers want to believe otherwise.
People who mindlessly parrot that a rifle or carbine is the optimal HD weapon are braindead. HD = tight confines and needing a free hand to open doors, hit light switches, and whatever else. A rifle or shotgun will go past a corner long before you do, letting an intruder know you're coming. If it becomes a grapple, the rifle or shotgun is a liability, and quickly becomes useless. For HD, you want a handgun, simple as. Anything else is LARP
>A rifle or shotgun will go past a corner long before you do, letting an intruder know you're coming.
Skill issue
You can use all guns one handed, except for manual actions. Doesn't mean it's ideal but using a pistol one handed won't be ideal either. If you're in a grapple you fucked up already
>A rifle or shotgun will go past a corner long before you do
SBRs and SBSs exist
Any good suggestion for an SBS btw? Looking at semi or mag loaded but a pump is fine too
I'm having fun with my Mossberg 590A1 Class III. Though these things are totally non-restricted here and I don't have to deal with all the ATF gayry to get one.
>SBRs and SBSs exist
have fun getting tax stamp cucked
>Skill issue
If you tout a rifle, shotgun, or short barrel version of either as the optimal HD gun, you live in a fantasy John Wick LARP, simple as
>have fun getting tax stamp cucked
>shoot guy
>change upper
Anyways
>government knows you own an SBR
>implying they will totally buy that you shot the home invader with your home-defense 20" AR and not your 11.5" african eliminator
ATF knows, not the flatfoots in your jurisdiction. lazy cops would never put two and two together.
>lazy cops would never put two and two together
Right, because running a cross-departmental check on firearms involved in a homicide isn't basic routine police work.
Retard.
i'm going to need at least one (1) historical example
>asking for proof of something that would be incredibly difficult to find information on
>expecting someone to do all that work just for you to ignore them or leave the thread
>government knows you own an SBR
How do they know if I don't register it?
SMG > sidearm for CQC still.
the versatility people claim is extremely overrated. your 18" maverick 88 is going to suck for shooting birds or clays and some trap ranges won't even let you use it. you won't have the right sights to use slugs at longer range. if you had something like an 870 wingmaster with a second slug barrel it would be versatile for hunting purposes, but that's not what shotguntards are buying.
>you won't have the right sights to use slugs at longer range
Sounds like a skill issue. The fellas and I have been dropping deer with 1oz slugs thru smoothbore barrels and bead sights out to 80 yards for years. get gud or get out
idk I have a rifle in god's caliber 30-06 for that kind of shooting. I've put tons of rails on shotguns though so lots of people must have that issue.
Some of us live in cucked states where only straight walled cartridges and slugs are permitted for deer, and where I hunt the farthest possible shot is barely100 yd, so no point in buying a slug barrel. It's a very attainable shot using just a bead sight if you practice and know your POI
That's with a 20" smooth-bore, and I buy and shoot the same federal 1oz power shok rifled slugs every time I pull the trigger with a slug in it. Like anything you need to know your load and gun, but at 80 yards it is a beautiful gun to shoot. With larger silhouette metal targets I can hit 5-6/7 in a tube at 110 yards. Beyond that I'm holding too far above the target and the barrel obstructs the view too much to comfortably make the shot, at least with my sight picture.
All this being said, I wouldn't take a deer beyond 50 yards with this gun. I don't personally believe soft lead slugs penetrate deep enough to make it a humane kill beyond that. Because I have a smoothbore I can't use slugs intended for a rifled barrel, so my best bet is federal deep penetrators or whatever their copper plated slugs are. However these are loaded to low-recoil velocities and, as such, don't shoot nearly as flat as power shoks do. So I don't bother, since it won't extend my range any.
Love seeing another "long range" slug shooter like myself. Slugs are fun. However anon you can "personally believe" all you want, but I can tell you from deer I've killed at range with soft lead slugs, they absolutely penetrate deep enough even after hitting a shoulder.
It's physics. 1oz of lead going 1400-1700fps absolutely caries that energy beyond 50yd.
I've seen soft slugs fail to drop a deer at 50 yards with a broadside double lung shot. At least that was the intention. It actually stuck in the right lung near the top and the deer ran >150 yards before succumbing. Lucky for us he ran right over a wire fence onto private property, and when we went to retrieve it the owner denied us access. We tried explaining he was shot well off his property line but he said we shot *over* his propert (we didn't) to take the shot. Game wardens wouldn't even reply to our pleas until a week later.
Shame about that deer, the property owner probably kept the meat himself. Also, fuck a game warden.
Double lungs can be weird shots in terms of time a deer takes to succumb. I've double lunged two separate does over the years using 150gr soft points in my Mosin, and both of those does ran quite a distance before falling. That's why these days I aim for the shoulder: you lose more meat that way, but a deer won't run with a pulverized shoulder.
I say all that to say this: don't blame the slug for that deer running. Sometimes you can make a perfect shot on a deer and either the testosterone from the rut or the adrenaline from being shot gives them the extra juice to bolt.
Real nice shooting. I love the way slugs manhandle steel plates. Is that with a bead or actual iron sights?
All bead. I'm not a fan of ghost ring sights on a shotgun. Makes no sense on a smoothbore.
I agree. I don’t like peep sights at all that restrict your picture. That one reason I love my 590 so much. Just a bead and a dream.
brothers, we are enlightened. more ought to shotgunners take the beadpill
>you won't have the right sights to use slugs at longer range
80 yards with a bead work for you?
People drop clays with a 410, a 12 gauge Mav ought to be able to do it, shure , a shorter sight plane, slightly lower velocity, bad choke, people dont give 2 shits about optimal clay guns
unless (You) are really into clay shooting, sure its nice to have but im not taking a gucci clay gun through heavy brush.
>Why wouldnt a clay field allow a recreational shooter to have a go as long as they have proper ammo?
A slug barrel is better at shooting slugs but a regular barrel can still do it proficiently enough inside ( a guestimate) 70 yards. Probably more with a reddot
>>Why wouldnt a clay field allow a recreational shooter to have a go as long as they have proper ammo?
I think it's unironically to keep morons and poorfags out
noise complaints is a reason
an 18 is louder than a 28
>noise complaints
>at a gun range
>gun range
retard
>I think it's unironically to keep morons and poorfags out
Probably, all shooters should be wearing ear pro, and a gunshot is still heard for a mile or 2 depending on terrain/ sound isolation (be it walls, trees or whatnot), still I can not imagine an 18Incher being that much noticably louder out side of the range (decibel wise) then a (for example ) 26 inch except
for the shooter/ anyone behin them, maybe, because there is more metal and the ""origin" of the sound is much farther away. it will definitely be quieter due to less preassure at the muzzle end but still, a shotgun is no 22LR, you can not make it even close "hearing safe" by just using a longer barrel, simpyl too much powder to burn. The concussiveness could be a bit on the harsh side though
Some 75yd shooting I did just now, just for you two.
https://vimeo.com/857345735
100yd
https://vimeo.com/857360719
Shotguns do everything a civilian could ever reasonably need well enough. That plus the cool factor. You will never be in a situation where a shotgun isn’t enough. Stop making this thread.
I don’t see how you can overlook the versatility of a shotgun added to their often low price, ease of use, aftermarket, extremely common ammunition, and effective ammunition choices.
>I don’t see how you can overlook the versatility of a shotgun
Not the guy you're replying to, but this is worth discussing. It's certainly true that shotguns are very flexible, and people seem to parrot that point in discussions a lot, but few people seem to follow through with it. I see tons of people posting photos of their tacticool combat builds but hardly anyone is talking about how many grouse they shot or tips for improving their skeet game. It seems that a lot of people love the idea that their shotgun is flexible but all they ever do is combat larp at static targets or practice "clearing" their home. In a way they're the gun equivalent of those guys who drive big modded pickup trucks but never actually go off-road or haul anything of significance.
I would buy one but the ranges near me only allow for slugs out of shotguns and slugs are pretty expensive per round
I just bought 250 for $.66/rd.
I go shoot it all with my favorite shotgun. Sporting clays are just as much fun as blasting slugs at shit in the desert. Ben Avery even likes to set up some ground clays that roll and bounce like rabbits; fun stuff.
Woah, that's fucking sick.
Wtf is that? Last time I checked ducks don’t fly in low orbit
Longer barrels don't make you shoot farther in shotguns, it's about the swing and balance.
With screw in chokes, you can optimize your pattern realistically for anything within 50-60yds and in, hunt every animal (game or not) in North America granted you’re close enough, mortally wound an unarmored person 9 times out of 10 with proper shot placement, and with shotguns like the Mossberg 535 you can go from 2 3/4” low recoil target loads to 3 1/2” magnums in the same string of shots. Not only is 12 gauge probably the most common ammunition second to 22lr, it is also extremely cheap to shoot and reload. You can buy it in like every hardware store. I have a ranch in terrain that isn’t flat and open so the tools I typically lean towards for every day use are shotguns
I totally agree that the gun is that flexible. But my point is that many people don't seem to be taking advantage of it. Can it take most game animals in North America? You bet. How many of them have you taken with a 12ga? *That* is my point. People seem to talk about the advantages more than they use them. If you are out there using your shotty for hunting then you are the exception rather than the rule.
>How many of them have you taken with a 12ga?
12 gauge has taken everything from duck to moose and bison. But the biggest thing I've shot with it is a hog.
I’ve shot everything deer size and smaller with a shotgun.
crow squirrel deer goose raccoon black bear duck other assorted waterfowl pigeon
although to be fair the deer and the bear i shot with a rifled slug barrel but they were both about 35 yard shots so it’s not like i would have missed with a plain jane slug
I use my Mossberg 500 18.5" to shoot skeet and it has done pretty well.
I don't know how to tell you to "up your game". It's all about timing and your aim.
I've never had the time I needed to go turkey hunting, but I have no doubt that it'd do fine.
And yes if (insert fantasy of choice) happens then yes, I'd be willing to use it.
I shoot trap about every other month and I have shot 1 (one) pheasant with this shotgun. I keep slugs and buckshot around, mainly for mutilating watermelons, but also because this is my only long gun. I have a p365 for CC and home defense. the barrel on the shotgun is really too long for use inside my house.
What you're describing are just the loudest shotgun users. The vast majority of shotgunners do shoot clays, birds, small game, and deer in straightwall states very regularly, but just don't care to post about it because a shotgun is a tool. All guns are tools, but the shotgun is the platonic ideal of firearms as tools, and tools aren't usually sexy, so people don't often post 'em.
>They just use their guns for tactical larp.
Ah yes, unlike the assault rifle owners who are regularly in combat or people who buy semiautomatic SMGs...
This post is so dumb. Shotguns are the type of gun MOST likely to be used on non-stationary targets outside of hunting rifles.
>I see tons of people posting
If you are forming your opinion of what the average shotgun user looks like based on PrepHole I dont think your image is gonna be very accurate
To say nothing of the fact that PrepHole scews extremely toward military firearms and usage in their discussions, you also need to keep in mind that the vast majority of PrepHoleommandos own 0 firearms, the vast majority of the remainder own one or two cheap, low-quality firearms, if they are American in 2023 given those above demographics that gun is probably an entry-level AR15.
All of this skews the discussion heavily.
The reality is that the majority of shotgun owners and users are the dude in realtree at the gas station buying zyns or cope (depending on his age), and those dudes are fucking slaughtering deer and fowl with shotguns.
From the standpoint of self defense only, shotguns are broadly speaking behind the curve. A modern 5.56mm rifle is better for HD and you can't really CC a shotgun or rifle in a practical manner the way you can a handgun.
That said, there's a lot of things shotguns do either pretty well that makes them worthwhile.
>Can work well for HD, even if a rifle is better.
>Trap/skeet shooting, which is fun.
>Fun range toy with significantly different shooting characteristics than a rifle.
>Can launch slugs which are effective against large predatory animals in a way that most intermediate calibers aren't.
>More readily available in restrictive legal jurisdictions (better HD choice than a bolt action rifle for instance).
>Tend to be very affordable.
From a strictly tactical standpoint if you can legally own an affordable and non cucked semi auto rifle and 20-30rd magazines you don't "need" a shotgun in your collection, but even then they are so cheap that there's no reason not to have at least one. Get a Mossberg combo specifically, as it is cheap and versatile enough to do everything a shotgun can do.
>be me
>read this post
>about to reply to this post bringing up hunting
>notice it’s a tripfag
>huntlet confirmed
>homo confirmed
Fuck off
>round versatility in taking game of all sizes
>pistol mag dump in 1 shot or
>slug out to a reasonable distance if pressed (deer, 4 & 2 legged)
>shotgun: cheaper for passable beaters
Per GWOT veteran accounts of unsatisfactory sit-the-fuck-down action on methhead sand people I'd take the extra volume of lead all at ounce in HD/PDW isolation, all things being equal.
A shotty has a higher chance of instantly folding a person, or making a limb completely unusable because they are better at dumping all /most of their energy into a target turning the area hit by a pattern into minced meat.
Rifles also have a decent chance at doing the same (556, 545,762 x39, 300 blacked) the energy transfer is breatty good
Shotguns have more of a chance of hitting something important
Rifles have decent secondary and primary cavitation
As well as penetration against soft armor
Shotguns in some situations pose more of a threat for colateral (human shield ), in others less( people behind some sturdy but not rifle resistant barriers).
Shotguns have door breaching rounds, can have flares, rubber beans
Shotguns were originally(and some still are ) a cheap weapon capable of defense , hunting, pest controll and FUN.
The spread makes it a bit better against moving targets inside 30 is (or maybe 50 yards) , less likely to have a near miss.
The sights are one of the better close range sights be it a bead, 2 beads ,a wiiiide ghost ring , a rifle has to have sights capable of going farther which makes them less suitable for close (modern optics changed that )
A 12 gauge slug is around 0.72 cal (18.5mm), balistically it is similar to a ye olden smokthbore musket (horriffic wounds left by those) except, moar powa, moar projectile mass(potetially) , and possibly more sccurate but definitely more capacity/faster reload
>except, moar powa
You have to go to specialty ammo to get more powerful than an old-school musket.
.69 cal roundball weighs a little over 1oz. .69 cal Minie ball weighs more like 1.7 oz. Velocity for a Brown Bess varied from about 1300 to 1800 fps depending on the exact load and barrel length.
For comparison, some typical 12ga slugs:
Brenneke K.O. 1oz 1650fps
Federal Premium Power Shok 1oz 1610fps
Remington Slugger 3" 1oz 1760 fps
Remington Slugger managed recoil 1oz 1200fps
i figured smokeless would produce higher velocities , I guess I really did pull the "moar power" out of my ass, even at the low end of power (1300 FPS) it still produces more power then almost all 12gauge shotgun slugs. well thank you, i had no idea the brown bess was so potent, i knew it had some ass behind it but damn , that is a lot of power, i figured most of the killiness came from the fairly large caliber and deformation. well , you live and learn i guess
I had a shotgun for home defense until the day I had a real home defense situation. Someone kicked my door in while I was sleeping and I grabbed my shotgun to go confront them. Shit was so large and cumbersome I couldn't even get around corners or open my door effectively. Luckily the guy bolted the second he heard my bedroom door open but if it was someone with a gun I'd have been 100% fucked. Bought a handgun the next day instead.
What barrel length?
skill issue
nice LARP
>Shit was so large and cumbersome
Just wanna say, I'm a big fan. Loved you as Mini-Me in Austin Powers.
It kills stuff really hard
its good if you're poor and live around socio-economic factors
Who cares, they're fun, and shotgun sports are always more fun than shooting static targets.
Almost all hunting shots are taken within shotgun range. I generally think handguns are best for home defense because you get an extra hand to work with, but that's a personal choice and I wouldn't assert it's the universal optimum. Handguns are about the only choice for carry, obviously - but how many guns do you already have that won't ever be used in a defensive capacity and aren't intended to be? Get this "everything must be hyper-optimized" pubescent shit outta here.
All that aside, there are things only shotguns can do, like breaching rounds, or any other weird, exotic, or fun loading you can think of. I've also used blanks and dowels to launch fireworks.
>Are shotguns less than ideal for modern day use?
yea
they are fun and cool though
I think they're overrated by some for home defense, but they aren't necessarily worse than a rifle imo. I think the 'versatility' aspect is a bit overblown, an ar-15 is way more versatile overall. You lose the bird hunting capability but you gain a ton of range and more compact ammo without really losing much if any lethality. I think if you have one for another reason than 'for fun' it should probably be a dedicated bird gun.
>an ar-15 is way more versatile overall
>You lose the bird hunting capability
Losing an entire very relevant category of hunting capability somehow makes AR more versatile, when AR only adds range?
Okay retard, next tell us how the window tastes
here's the thing though. you can have more than one gun. A rifle is a versatility tradeoff but I think range is much more versatile than a niche that most people don't even end up engaging in. I don't need intend to have the capacity to shoot anyone with my bird gun, its just for birds. I'd rather have a gun that is actually made for defensive use, but can also be pushed into hunting most game and longer range usage, and also one that can shoot birds, than just one gun that is fine for defensive usage and good for hunting but severely struggles out to longer ranges. If you are so poor that you can't afford an AR and a shotgun, but still need the capacity to kill humans, deer, and birds, then yes a shotgun is the tool for that.
If you want to hunt at range, get a bolt gun in 308 or 6.5. An AR is for hogs and coyotes. Thinking you need to carry "more ammo" is LARPing and shows you live in a fantasy world
if you really want to maximize versatility in 1 gun then go ar10 or similar
If you can't use it to hunt birds and other small moving targets, then you are not maximizing versatility, simple as.
Imagine carrying a 12lb rifle out hunting lol
Fuck that.
Most people only own one gun, to be real senpai. Not everyone is all that into them. They'll go get something and throw it in the closet. For poor people, and those without the interest, sometimes they just won't optimize. As far as it goes, the points that everyone has made are valid for the guy that either will not or cannot buy more guns... Or the guys, like me, that are cucked by fiat. I use a shotgun for defensive purposes because it is the best option in Canada besides maybe lever actions. But it could be worse in my case, at least I can just buy an unregistered short barreled shotgun and use it where and whenever the fuck I want. My AR and handguns have to be double locked and are made impractical by gay laws. Shotgun is easier to get into action and more practical than the bolter. Not everyone has the freedom they deserve, breh.
I don't think shotguns are bad, or that there's no reason to own one, but I do still agree with OPs statement of 'Are shotguns less than ideal for modern day use?'. They're not useless for modern day use and are pretty good at most things but for most categories there are marginally better options.
>but I do still agree with OPs statement of 'Are shotguns less than ideal for modern day use?'
not a statement, a question
can't agree with a question
no-gun europoor here, what's that on the bottom?
Savage 110 scout and yes, it used to be available in Europe for few months couple years ago. Not anymore. Now you'll have to pick Bergara's scout.
thanks, I heard gun laws are kinda alright in austria and was thinking about getting something as my first
You can get a bolt action in no time flat, my dude. Just check out your local laws and ordnances. Semiautos and other sporting arms are a different category, but it's not so onerous to get them, I hear. No idea, not Austrian, but the laws are pretty alright there. I'm Canadian and took that picture to illustrate all the guns I needed just to replace the utility of my AR-15 for sport shooting.
>You can get a bolt action in no time flat, my dude.
Money and stuff, maybe in the near future.
As far as I know bolt-action and stuff that has to be cycled/reloaded manually after each shot are "free" to grab from a store here, but for anything else you have to get a license by passing a slightly more serious test. Didn't look much more into it yet.
>rifles for hunting
Except when its shotgun season, and its called BUCK shot for a reason, shotguns take deer very easily and the shells can be re-packed without special gear unlike rifle cartridges.
>rifles/pistols for home defense
And shotguns? I don't understand this bullet point at all, its not like you have to pick only two categories, and I see no reason a shotgun wouldn't be the preferred choice to buying an expensive semi auto rifle that will confiscated and almost certainly used as evidence of your 'mental state' should I ever actually use it to defend myself.
I think you have a very video-game driven understanding of what a shotgun is. Here is the breakdown for why shotguns are and always will be the standard firearm in america:
>can be had for sub-$100
>cheap ammo that is refillable without special gear (can even shoot black powder without special consideration if you wanted to do that)
>can take deer, small game, and birds without modification (even has a shotgun/smooth bore season set aside in most states)
>smooth bore and extremely reliable
>not considered a "military style weapon"
>will be the last to go if weapons ever get banned
This stupid nonsense you're saying is just dumb. There is no 'choice' here. If you haven't inherited a shotgun yet there will probably come a point where you see one for a ridiculously low price at a pawn shop and pick it up just to round out your arsenal. It doesn't make sense to not have a shotgun even if you never shoot it.
Shotgun can:
Obliterate near targets with powerful buckshot loads.
Obliterate far targets with heavy full-bore slugs.
Efficiently destroy fragile equipment with countless birdshot pellets.
Destroy hardy equipment with penetrator slugs.
Shoot down drones with birdshot.
Unlock doors with breaching loads.
Knock down rioters with non-lethal loads.
Shoot pennies just because.
Shotguns are the wildcard of the battlefield. The firearm of choice for a true renaissance man.
You don't own guns.
you own guns to larp with your gay friends
nta but larping with your friends is based
larping innawoods is based larping to post pics and get good "muh shot times" "muh splits" is gay and almost as annoying as rock climbers
You're making me cringe with your obesity and lack of skill, man.
If the answer was anything close to a definitive yes then you fags wouldn't make this thread a million times a year.
12 gauge buckshot causes the most tissue damage of any commonly available small arms ammunition while also mitigating the risk of over penetration. Aside from that it can also still be used to hunt just about anything from squirrels to bear, provided you use the right ammo. Lastly, they're dirt cheap and legal everywhere.
A shotgun and a bayonet should be mandatory police riot gear. The shotgun can be loaded with less lethal rounds and/or other special ammunition such as bean bags. An AR-15 based patrol rifle cannot do that. The shotgun should have a bayonet fixed for dispersing rioters as humanely as possible, in combination with tear gas.
>live in connecticuck
>can't own mags above 10 rounds
>poor fag maverick 88 holds 6 rounds
>6-9 00 pellets ballistically similar to 9mm
>equivalent to 54 9mm slugs down range
It's probably just a cope but thats my rational
I always love seeing close up shootings of people being hit center mass with buck.
Most hunters in most regions of the US rarely if ever take a shot on medium-to-large game beyond 150 yds. A 12ga or 20ga slug can and does kill a deer-sized animal at that distance, and a well-sighted shotgun can reach out reasonably (ethically) accurately at that range. This, combined with the extremely wide variety and availability of ammo for every other type of smaller game animal, and the fact that good quality shotguns can and always have been available for very cheap, means that for most US hunters the shotgun is absolutely the most versatile gun in the safe.
shotguns are the revolvers of rifles, they're generally going to be a worse choice than a rifle but they're still a gun and they still hit very hard.
at the very least, shotguns are incredibly cheap and you can shoot birds with them, something you really can't do with rifles.
I prefer shotguns and revolvers to rifles and pistols... Am... Am I fudd?
no you're just a contrarian who constantly has to 'main' the worst thing in videogames while swearing up and down its actually good.
were on PrepHole. this place attracts the exact same kind of contrarian.
Maybe he just enjoys shooting them, bro.
I'm not saying they're better for you min/max larpers. I'm just saying I've always had more fun shooting them.
That's kind of what a Fudd is but shotguns and revolvers are fun as hell.
it's the best for hitting things that are moving.
Did some dumbass just keep repeating that rifles are better for HD until everyone else started believing it?
Pretty much. It's a braindead meme. It comes from the same retards who try to conceal carry full sized duty pistols with 18rd mags, a flashlight, and two extra mags. They all think that any defense situation will be a John Wick movie.
handguns are always going to be better due to superior maneuvering and one-handedness
So use a sling and you can use a rifle one handed. I prefer rifle because
1. More deadly.
2. Easier to put rounds on target.
3. Higher Cap.
4. Less penetration with proper load, even a proper load for a handgun will penetrate more.
If you actually train with your rifle, maneuvering it is stupid easy, especially if you got a shorter barrel.
>1. More deadly.
sure fine.
>2. Easier to put rounds on target.
do you live in a fucking mansion? how can you not hit targets 10 feet away with a pistol?
>3. Higher Cap.
15 vs. 30
>4. Less penetration with proper load, even a proper load for a handgun will penetrate more.
frangible bullets
You are basically right, but keep in mind with a shotgun you can literally effectively hunt any mammal in North America, you are covered from squirrels to moose. You would NOT want to be caught in a gunfight with your pump shotgun with 5 rounds vs some dude the ridge over with an AR with 30 rounds plus an unknown quantity of additional ammo
How many times does somebody do a home invasion with an AR.(i do not know) It might have happened, it might even happen often enough that it might be a concern but it might be hard to tell because:
> an AR pistol/drek-o ak being documented as a handgun might obfuscate the stats.
From The limited number of vids i have seen, police deal with all manner of weapons probably because those suspects are ready to duke it out with the popo and expect it to happen (ar pistols, ar15, shottyes, pistols, hammers, knives) and do not care about extra prison time because it is already death/life in prison for them at that point
A home invasion is ussually crowbars, other melle weapons and regular pistols (22lr,9mm, 40 s&w ecc.) (Based on the vids i have seen) probably because those can be concealed and you do not want to be caught on a random security camera/phone going around with a long gun to reduce the chances of being IDed post crime. (Guy with a dark hoodie and a suHispaniciously long backpack that is shaped like a rifle sleeve spotted at 2am will be unambiguously the same guy in a dark hoodie who did a home invasion with an AR at 2:30 am. However a CCW guy in a bright hoodie at 2 am might not be the same bright hoodied homeinvader at 2:30 (gives a bit more ambiguity) .
You might get perp with a sawnoff/sbr but that will just add time in case you are caught (some criminals are dumb but most arent completely and utterly sub brick retarded).
Thinking about adding RMR
Please recommend me good hunting shotguns
Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 are both extremely reliable, extremely affordable, have a huge aftermarket for parts and accessories, rugged, and exceedingly versatile for hunting (and fun shooting/ home defense). Both can be had for below $300 depending on where you are and the time of the year, and both are pretty much equal. Just go to a gun store and handle both, pick which one you like personally and you'll be well-off. If you want a nice shotty that will stand up to a lot of real-life use, can't go wrong with either of those.
If you prefer an autoloader, go Benelli for high tier, and Remington for affordable. But in the opinion of this humble pump-gun anon, unless you're doing a fuckton of waterfowl hunting, an autoloader is a waste of money.
Benelli Novas can be attained for around 400 to 450. They're fantastic in a hunting length.
They're more killy than rifles
>rifles/pistols for home defense
seems like a moronic thing to say
>what is the point of a shotgun again?
The male dream of one day blasting some retard square in the chest with a homeload shell made for just such an occasion, followed by that satisfying sound of pumping out the spent shell while your foe is coming to term with his internals becoming externals.
>spend 250 dollars on a pump shotgun
>have the second most competent gun at all the most common tasks
yeah gee why would people still be buying these?
for a home defense gun anyway a semi automatic shotgun is the best choice in AD 2023
Shotguns are damn worth it
Large round versatility, relatively cheap rounds, easy to reload rounds, and good home defense.
Reason Good for home defense is if you use a rifle without appropriate home defense rounds you run the risk of it blowing through the gay whos robbing your house and hitting something else.
Birdshot or even buck shot won't penetrate as deep as rifle, but carries a fuck ton of energy and can blast a chunk of shit out of the robber while keeping others safe around you.
Remember the saying: " Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, shotgun at the right range with the right load will physically remove a chunk of shit from your opponent and throw it on the floor "
>need to shoot small thing
Birdshot
>need to shoot big thing
Buckshot
>need to shoot big thing but far away
Slug
Its the ideal firearm because changing its role is as easy and changing the ammo you load
Stopping power isn't a meme. When a 350 lb young scholar and future astronaut mistakes your house for the all-you-can-rape 24 hour Popeye's after a long night of jogging you want them to die immediately when you shoot them. There are lots of studies about how the .223 and 9mm wound channel is totally 100% good enough in gel tests, bro, just trust us that people on this board have probably already referred to. They are wrong. They will probably never be in a self defense situation and die because of it, so it doesn't matter to them that their 7 yard carboard-shooting range toys don't kill people fast enough to keep them from plowing a fucking claw hammer into their skull before they die.
This video is a real life commercial for a/ absolutely no woman on the field and b/ any officer must carry a 14" shotgun with 6 buckshot rounds (plus pistol).
Yeah, you need 10mm frangibles in that sidearm too. The "even if it's 22 lr getting shot is so traumatic they will just run away, bro" people haven't had much to say about this one. Sure, that's a reasonable response, but you don't generally have to shoot reasonable people.
I love how people think you'll be robbed by a sober robber and not attacked by a drugged out gorilla, which is in every city and small town in the US.
Yeah most criminals are on some heavy drugs these days. I expect it to be a meth psychosis maniac that tries something
Hence automatic shotguns being the GOAT CQC weapon.
No one has every successfully charged through a 3 round burst of buckshot.
50 state legal, so good for transport
They were never ideal for most uses. The point of a shotgun is utility. But where it is ideal in close proximity with short barrels loaded with 000, or 0000 Buck in the pipe.
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Also ideal for shooting birds in flight, and ideal for shooting small fast-moving game such as rabbits and squirrels. And ideal for breaching doors. Now that I think about it, ideal for crowd control because you only need to load up some bean bags or taser rounds. Ideal for shooting mid-sized moving game in drive-hunts and stalking hunts. Shotguns have always been ideal for these things.
Turns out the only thing they aren't ideal for is shooting beyond 75yds, and concealed carry.
>rife for hunting
not allowed in a lot of states
also shotguns are best for small game and birds
Shotguns are superior for HD
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Wtf is this. AI?
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great for home defense and hunting ANY game. Also fun to shoot
Do you wanna put 8-9 shots of .32ACP on a threat at once, or essentially a giant fucking musket ball? Then use a shotgun, just realize its range and capacity limitations. Realistically since it shoots 8-9 rounds at once is it really limited capacity?
If you wanna hunt bird or drones it's also useful. Buy a shotgun bub.
Your move rifle fags
For the booby trap above the door. A rifle would just miss!
I know it's retarded, but I wish my local ranges let me shoot skeet and trap with a M4. Ended up buying my own clay thrower machine. But it's not the same you know.
Lame that they don't. A shotgun is a shotgumthey shouldn't discriminate
yeah super lame. I have longer barreled shotguns for it, but out of 5 ranges within reasonable driving distance, it's either 24", 26" or 28" as minimum barrel length for shotguns to use for skeet or trap stands 🙁