>greek bvll >defeated in 13 days by outnumbered paratroopers with no naval landing support
Yes, the casualties numbers shocked the Luftwaffe, but that was before Barbarossa when Germans were used to taking whole countries with minimal losses. In Crete the Allies still suffered about the same number of killed as the Axis despite being on the defending side of an airborne invasion.
>In contrast, the Allies were impressed by the potential of paratroopers and started to form airborne-assault and airfield-defence regiments.
It entirely depends on how paratroopers are used, they fill a strategic role
Small commando paratroopers to drop behind enemy lines for sabotage and insurgency purposes?
Based
A well supplied paratrooper corps in an air superiority environment after a SEAD and CAS campaign used to capture and hold strategic points like airports?
Super based
Using your paratroopers as light infantry or using your paratroopers without total air domination?
Suicide
That’s why you need absolute air dominance and you either use a smaller force that can be resupplied by air for operations in the enemy rear (commandos) or use your paras to capture strategic points which can be resupplied in a few days (bridges, airports)
Paras are a modern, mobile asset that no modern army should lack of but they should not be a massive army branch
do you really expect paratroopers to hold out for weeks on end?
or do you think paratroopers operate entirely on their own without any other force?
paratroopers were used extensively on d-day succesfully to secure roads and bridges to slow down german response time and speed up the advance out of the beach
most linked up within a day of the landings and the rest within less than a week
they were used in the textboox example of how paratroopers operate
inserted via air to take specific obectives with total surprise on their side
they obviously couldnt liberate paris by themselves, but they didnt have to
I don't think Tangail should be brought up as an example since by that point, the Pakistanis were extremely undersupplied, undermanned and demoralized. iirc the Indian paratroopers suffered 0 casualties, then linked up with Kader Siddiqui's militia, before conducting a forced march to Dhaka's entrance bridge to receive the Pakistani surrender. It was pretty much a walkover.
The Hostomel raid was initially a success, and honestly could have seriously ended the war had the plan outside just taking the airbase worked. However, the ground assault from Belarus was stalled enough for Ukraine to bring out artillery to shell not just the VDV but also make the airstrip useless. So, my vote is that the Russians are retarded and they, in a way, Market Garden'd themselves.
>VDV wont be briefed on the assault until the fucking night of >our resupply from belarus to kiev will go unopposed
Even Market Garden and Crete werent that outlandishly dumb
>initially a success
Why do people still buy this? It was an abject failure because they had no chance of protecting the runways, which were being concurrently targeted by both artillery and Ukrainian air force. The reason that reinforcements didn't arrive wasn't because of the VDV getting turned into a red paste (who cares lol), it was because the runways were completely unusable within an hour of the invasion commencing
Suppression of artillery is literally not the VDVs job. The airfield WAS taken and cleared of trucks which is why the Ukrainians hit it with artillery.
>WHAT AIRFORCE DOING?!
I don't get why the propaganda drums are still beating on this when Ukraine itself has posted an in depth analysis of the battle of hostomel to include POW accounts. Just weird as it serves no purpose to admit the initial success when the battle for Kiev is over.
>That's Alexander Buinov, he's not actual VDV.
Haha, so the most famous face of the VDV was an ex-boyband neverserved now politician.
Guess that's why he wants to send them.
Dude's a Z-musician/singer. There's several other Russian celebs that effectively had to do the equivalent of towing the party line as the very special operation started. They went from being depoliticized™ to being mega ziggers because of where they get their money and support from.
Yes, but not always. Were they a desperate measure? Absolutely. Back when you had anti air chewing up Jumpers, you'd have a decent amount who could still hit the ground.
You duct tape a steak knife to a drone, it'll litter the ground with about 3,000 lbs of manwich before anyone's the wiser.
Paratroopers should be a ground unit of the air force and directly subject to air force command
Marines should also be part of the navy and under navy command
Look at Soviet airborne operations during WWII. They were all complete failures so they ended up using them exclusively as "elite" infantry. They still cling to this mentality, so when they're used like they're supposed to be used they end up getting slaughtered.
>They still cling to this mentality
Except they conducted a successful heliborne drop in a peer threat environment against a pre alerted enemy in what is the longest distance operation ever conducted. They also overwhelmed, dislodged the guarding forces, and forced multiple brigades to be brought from Kiev itself to rout them during a time when the initial ground invasion was attempting to push the capitol.
Had anything gone wrong for the Ukrainian defenders there was a damn good chance of the land bridge being effective.
The Soviets were some of the first to form airborne infantry and they're still one of the most willing to try novel things and take risks with them today.
>unable to prevent/dislodge enemy arty from destroying the massive strategic objective they were tasked with capturing >don't get resupplied in time >forced to retreat into the surrounding woods and wiped to the man
Yeah the VDV did great anon
not to the US, but apparently, Ukraine is a peer to Russia based on the ziggers' performance in this definitely-not-an-invasion. Before this clusterfuck, I would've bet money that Russia could make us bleed if we went to war with them. I also thought that they were really going to annex Ukraine in about a week. This is why I don't gamble in Vegas
>conducted a successful heliborne drop
Delusional. They NEVER secured the airport, and they were BTFO when they tried to attack Kiev via Irpin. They achieved NONE of their objectives.
They only work in places where distances are fukhueg (meaning road vehicles are impractical), and local troop concentration is low.
So basically Africa.
Oh look, a good post. Congratulations.
[...]
This post could only be written by a Russian, which is funny because all ruskie shills hide behind USA flags on 4chan.
>a one-way trip
They always inadvertently out themselves
Russians are retarded.
If you apply them correctly, in that they be deployed in a way that they sow chaos in the enemy's rear line, interrupt logistical flow, and capture key targets, prior to linking up with heavier support slamming in to the main line, they work exceptionally well.
The problem is that Russia got the first half right, then forgot the latter, then dropped them in the ocean, then flew them over the enemy's capital accidentally and got them shot down, then condemned them to being front line shot-callers and emergency rear guard units when they got too thin in numbers to do their job.
Oh yeah, they're also good as emergency relief forces for any cut off or surrounded units.
Damn, just imagine if Balalaika sits with her eyes cold stare in some island paradise hotel. Her perfect tits bounce and up and down and then the phone rings.
She suddenly starts to chole you really hard. The only thing you hear before pass out is:"The fucking monkeh did what in Ukraine with my VDV?".
Just imagine how mad she would be and lash out by putting your head between her thighs.
haha very funny scenario anon, I like to self insert as Chang and in this scenario it makes sense
Damn, just imagine if Balalaika sits with her eyes cold stare in some island paradise hotel. Her perfect tits bounce and up and down and then the phone rings.
She suddenly starts to chole you really hard. The only thing you hear before pass out is:"The fucking monkeh did what in Ukraine with my VDV?".
Just imagine how mad she would be and lash out by putting your head between her thighs.
>light infantry dropped behind enemy lines and fighting regular infantry and armor without support.
this was always high risk manoeuvrer - if help came in time it was a success - otherwise Khorne was really pleased...
Today VdV exist only on paper kek
Maybe they will mobilize a little bit more skuffs (ruzzoids alcoholics with beer body 40+ yo which served in the vdv 10+ years ago)
They are a high risk high reward and you can not deploy them willimy nilly as russia does and expect them to survive.
One example of their usage : >Basically you found an airdefense gap or created it your self and you toss them over to halt enemy reinforcements so other troops can break through the lines by sabotage, digging in, improvised ambushes or fighting retreats.
Paratroopers can buy you time in an offensive and reduce casualtyes by creating an obsticle . >Or they can be used to quickly take strategically important objectives that the opponet did not have the time to take, but reinforcements must arrive in time. >If you use them as well trained troops , years of parachute and behind the lines training/specialist training is not utilised.
Any scenario that would fuck up paras kills gunships just as bad, yet nobody bats an eye at the horrible attrition helos had in Nam' or how quickly they get swatted out of the sky now.
Paratroopers exist to suffer anon. Look at most paratrooper operations throughout history and they're the first to get rekt. The few times they're successful are the exceptions to the norm.
Paratroopers have been obsolete since their inception. In virtually every conflict they've participated they've taken enormous casualties and rarely achieved their objectives.
paratroopers have always been obsolete
every successful use of paratroopers in history was personally done by god himself because he thinks it's really funny that people keep falling for it
This.
The virgin fallschirmjäger vs. the Chad Cretan Shepherd.
Dug in enemy vs paratroopers with handguns.
>greek bvll
>defeated in 13 days by outnumbered paratroopers with no naval landing support
Yes, the casualties numbers shocked the Luftwaffe, but that was before Barbarossa when Germans were used to taking whole countries with minimal losses. In Crete the Allies still suffered about the same number of killed as the Axis despite being on the defending side of an airborne invasion.
>In contrast, the Allies were impressed by the potential of paratroopers and started to form airborne-assault and airfield-defence regiments.
>Are paratroopers obsolete or are Russians just retarded?
Yes to both
Both
It entirely depends on how paratroopers are used, they fill a strategic role
Small commando paratroopers to drop behind enemy lines for sabotage and insurgency purposes?
Based
A well supplied paratrooper corps in an air superiority environment after a SEAD and CAS campaign used to capture and hold strategic points like airports?
Super based
Using your paratroopers as light infantry or using your paratroopers without total air domination?
Suicide
The fundamental problem of paratroopers is they need immediate resupply or they literally starve to death.
Modern war is won and lost on logistics. So dumping troops where they can't get access to bullets and rations is EXTREMELY risky.
That’s why you need absolute air dominance and you either use a smaller force that can be resupplied by air for operations in the enemy rear (commandos) or use your paras to capture strategic points which can be resupplied in a few days (bridges, airports)
Paras are a modern, mobile asset that no modern army should lack of but they should not be a massive army branch
do you really expect paratroopers to hold out for weeks on end?
or do you think paratroopers operate entirely on their own without any other force?
paratroopers were used extensively on d-day succesfully to secure roads and bridges to slow down german response time and speed up the advance out of the beach
most linked up within a day of the landings and the rest within less than a week
they were used in the textboox example of how paratroopers operate
inserted via air to take specific obectives with total surprise on their side
they obviously couldnt liberate paris by themselves, but they didnt have to
Oh look, a good post. Congratulations.
This post could only be written by a Russian, which is funny because all ruskie shills hide behind USA flags on 4chan.
> Are paratroopers obsolete
Battle of Kitona says no. Battle of Dragon Rouge says no. Battle of Tangail says no. operation serval says no.
I don't think Tangail should be brought up as an example since by that point, the Pakistanis were extremely undersupplied, undermanned and demoralized. iirc the Indian paratroopers suffered 0 casualties, then linked up with Kader Siddiqui's militia, before conducting a forced march to Dhaka's entrance bridge to receive the Pakistani surrender. It was pretty much a walkover.
>operation serval
lmao that wasn't even paratrooper operation
sugoi
Yes.
The Russians are idiots.
The Hostomel raid was initially a success, and honestly could have seriously ended the war had the plan outside just taking the airbase worked. However, the ground assault from Belarus was stalled enough for Ukraine to bring out artillery to shell not just the VDV but also make the airstrip useless. So, my vote is that the Russians are retarded and they, in a way, Market Garden'd themselves.
>VDV wont be briefed on the assault until the fucking night of
>our resupply from belarus to kiev will go unopposed
Even Market Garden and Crete werent that outlandishly dumb
>initially a success
Why do people still buy this? It was an abject failure because they had no chance of protecting the runways, which were being concurrently targeted by both artillery and Ukrainian air force. The reason that reinforcements didn't arrive wasn't because of the VDV getting turned into a red paste (who cares lol), it was because the runways were completely unusable within an hour of the invasion commencing
Suppression of artillery is literally not the VDVs job. The airfield WAS taken and cleared of trucks which is why the Ukrainians hit it with artillery.
>WHAT AIRFORCE DOING?!
I don't get why the propaganda drums are still beating on this when Ukraine itself has posted an in depth analysis of the battle of hostomel to include POW accounts. Just weird as it serves no purpose to admit the initial success when the battle for Kiev is over.
I often wonder what happened to that VDV poster guy.
The guy in the music videos? That's Alexander Buinov, he's not actual VDV.
>That's Alexander Buinov, he's not actual VDV.
Haha, so the most famous face of the VDV was an ex-boyband neverserved now politician.
Guess that's why he wants to send them.
Thanks anon
Dude's a Z-musician/singer. There's several other Russian celebs that effectively had to do the equivalent of towing the party line as the very special operation started. They went from being depoliticized™ to being mega ziggers because of where they get their money and support from.
Have some actual VDV guys from over a decade ago:
not even an actual soldier, just a pro-putin musician
>The Hostomel raid was initially a success
bro are you retarded? no plane could land how was that successful?
Yes, but not always. Were they a desperate measure? Absolutely. Back when you had anti air chewing up Jumpers, you'd have a decent amount who could still hit the ground.
You duct tape a steak knife to a drone, it'll litter the ground with about 3,000 lbs of manwich before anyone's the wiser.
LET THE BODIES HIT THE
**DSHH DSSHH***
FLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooOoooOoooOoooOooooOoooooooOoooooooOOOOOORRR
Paratroopers should be a ground unit of the air force and directly subject to air force command
Marines should also be part of the navy and under navy command
Look at Soviet airborne operations during WWII. They were all complete failures so they ended up using them exclusively as "elite" infantry. They still cling to this mentality, so when they're used like they're supposed to be used they end up getting slaughtered.
>They still cling to this mentality
Except they conducted a successful heliborne drop in a peer threat environment against a pre alerted enemy in what is the longest distance operation ever conducted. They also overwhelmed, dislodged the guarding forces, and forced multiple brigades to be brought from Kiev itself to rout them during a time when the initial ground invasion was attempting to push the capitol.
Had anything gone wrong for the Ukrainian defenders there was a damn good chance of the land bridge being effective.
The Soviets were some of the first to form airborne infantry and they're still one of the most willing to try novel things and take risks with them today.
>in a peer threat environment
>unable to prevent/dislodge enemy arty from destroying the massive strategic objective they were tasked with capturing
>don't get resupplied in time
>forced to retreat into the surrounding woods and wiped to the man
Yeah the VDV did great anon
Tbh the last two weren't their fault, but more the planners who failed to take in to account *any* form of resistance to the relief column
>peer threat environment
remember when this "SMO" was supposed to be over in 3 days because of how stronk Russia is compared to little Ukraine?
neither of them are "peer opponents"
not to the US, but apparently, Ukraine is a peer to Russia based on the ziggers' performance in this definitely-not-an-invasion. Before this clusterfuck, I would've bet money that Russia could make us bleed if we went to war with them. I also thought that they were really going to annex Ukraine in about a week. This is why I don't gamble in Vegas
>conducted a successful heliborne drop
Delusional. They NEVER secured the airport, and they were BTFO when they tried to attack Kiev via Irpin. They achieved NONE of their objectives.
They only work in places where distances are fukhueg (meaning road vehicles are impractical), and local troop concentration is low.
So basically Africa.
Captcha: N0GS8
>a one-way trip
They always inadvertently out themselves
Not obsolete, but risky and very niche. Russians were too confident.
Russians are retarded.
If you apply them correctly, in that they be deployed in a way that they sow chaos in the enemy's rear line, interrupt logistical flow, and capture key targets, prior to linking up with heavier support slamming in to the main line, they work exceptionally well.
The problem is that Russia got the first half right, then forgot the latter, then dropped them in the ocean, then flew them over the enemy's capital accidentally and got them shot down, then condemned them to being front line shot-callers and emergency rear guard units when they got too thin in numbers to do their job.
Oh yeah, they're also good as emergency relief forces for any cut off or surrounded units.
Paratroopers r still based
So is Balalika.
true
?t=24
haha very funny scenario anon, I like to self insert as Chang and in this scenario it makes sense
Damn, just imagine if Balalaika sits with her eyes cold stare in some island paradise hotel. Her perfect tits bounce and up and down and then the phone rings.
She suddenly starts to chole you really hard. The only thing you hear before pass out is:"The fucking monkeh did what in Ukraine with my VDV?".
Just imagine how mad she would be and lash out by putting your head between her thighs.
I approve of this post
use inspect element on it for a good ciopy of the captcha image
>light infantry dropped behind enemy lines and fighting regular infantry and armor without support.
this was always high risk manoeuvrer - if help came in time it was a success - otherwise Khorne was really pleased...
Today VdV exist only on paper kek
Maybe they will mobilize a little bit more skuffs (ruzzoids alcoholics with beer body 40+ yo which served in the vdv 10+ years ago)
They are a high risk high reward and you can not deploy them willimy nilly as russia does and expect them to survive.
One example of their usage :
>Basically you found an airdefense gap or created it your self and you toss them over to halt enemy reinforcements so other troops can break through the lines by sabotage, digging in, improvised ambushes or fighting retreats.
Paratroopers can buy you time in an offensive and reduce casualtyes by creating an obsticle .
>Or they can be used to quickly take strategically important objectives that the opponet did not have the time to take, but reinforcements must arrive in time.
>If you use them as well trained troops , years of parachute and behind the lines training/specialist training is not utilised.
Any scenario that would fuck up paras kills gunships just as bad, yet nobody bats an eye at the horrible attrition helos had in Nam' or how quickly they get swatted out of the sky now.
>take battle hardened elite troops and shove them in the meat grinder like diseased cattle
This country is wasting away as we watch
Paratroopers exist to suffer anon. Look at most paratrooper operations throughout history and they're the first to get rekt. The few times they're successful are the exceptions to the norm.
Both
Paratroopers have been obsolete since their inception. In virtually every conflict they've participated they've taken enormous casualties and rarely achieved their objectives.