Are Chinese infantry squads really equipped like this? I can't find any other modern ones.

Are Chinese infantry squads really equipped like this? I can't find any other modern ones.

This seems quite low on firepower. For example, a Swedish squad of six has two grenade launchers, three anti-tank weapons, and one belt fed machine gun.

By contrast here we have one drum fed light machine gun using the same smaller cartridge as the assault rifles, and one anti-tank weapon for seven people. More remarkably, the guys on the anti-tank weapon don't have rifles (I assume the weapon must be significantly heavier and harder to operate to justify this?)

Another contrast, a Swiss squad of six has two anti-tank weapons (both guys with them have assault rifles), two grenade launchers, two belt fed machine guns (5.56mm though), and two anti-tank weapons.

The only comparable thing to China I've seen is the US Marines: 12 guys, all with the same rifle, no LMG at all, but three grenade launchers at least. I find it weird that the Marines have such large squads and decided not to have either an LMG or a DMR, or better yet, one of those mag fed 20mm or 40mm automatic grenade launchers.

It seems like this Chinese squad (and the Marines) would be overmatched.

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >>By contrast here we have one drum fed light machine gun using the same smaller cartridge as the assault rifles, and one anti-tank weapon for seven people. More remarkably, the guys on the anti-tank weapon don't have rifles (I assume the weapon must be significantly heavier and harder to operate to justify this?)
    >Type 98 High Explosive Anti Tank (HEAT) projectile, military designation DZP-98, is armed with a tandem-warhead and an electronically timed fuse. The round can pierce the reactive armor of a main battle tank, and has an armor-piercing depth of about 800 mm RHA (under 90 degrees, after ERA) at a maximum effective range of 800 m. The maximum flying range is 2000 m. The HEAT rounds weights 8.03 kg (17.7 lb)
    >Type 98A Bunker Buster, military designation DZD-98A, is developed and deployed with Type 98A rocket launcher. The round can penetrate about 100 mm RHA at 60 degrees or 0.8 m (2.6 ft) of C35 concrete. The maximum range is 1,800–2,000 m with fire control system or 800 m with daylight optics.[8]
    PF-98 Projectiles[8]
    > The new launcher weighs 7 kg (15 lb). It's also fitted with improved night-vision scope and fire control systems.
    Honestly gives me WW2 German squad vibes, but with rockets instead of machine guns. I assume that in practice Chinese squads would give the assistant grenadier a rifle at least, but it seems like the job of the grenadier is to just fuck shit up from a km away.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >A fucking pistol

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Assistant Grenadier
      lmao poor fucker

      >Asst. Grenader
      He's there to shoot the Grenader if he doesn't fire his weapon.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Assistant Grenadier
      lmao poor fucker

      I think it's what they call the political officer.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        One per squad? Seems a little overmuch.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          seems like too little to me.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          If you push political commissars down to the squad level you can get away with smaller blocking detachments. China has this one right. Look at Russian offensives. They need a 1:2 ratio of Chechens point their guns to keep the troops heading in the right direction, and that's with the nightly tapes to break their will live.

          You burn out your best dedovschina guys doing that, they can only pound so much.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            [...]
            I think it's what they call the political officer.

            Chinese commissars are mostly office workers lol. They don't need commissars running around with the troops monitoring them as the PLA is already the armed wing of the CCP. Every NCO/CO is already a vetted communist party member unlike other Commie armies past/present.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          they should put two on every squad, just in case one of them decides to commit treason.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's more than enough for killing escaping Tibetans and Uyghurs

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    if they're like russia, even this shit is only used in propaganda photos and they'll actually show up with SKSs or something

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The Chinese military is very corrupt but they have more resourced to work with, a more functional MIC and corruption is more formalized/organized in a sense instead of chaotic and random. The bribe you need for a promotion varies per region but is generally well known.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >generally well known.

        by who

        You?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Source: it is known
          The chinks have been corrupt for a hundred years, thats why the "yeah thats totally chicken, not stray cat or sewer rat" stereotype exists.
          5.8mm only exists so officers couldn't sell off stocks of it like they were doing with 7.62x39, so it's not a stretch to say that the slants are corrupt.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Chinks have been corrupt for 5000 years anon, not just the last 100
            How do you think the brits managed to smuggle in all that opium?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Ya know gunships, the Chinese stopped the British, and then they had to declare war so they could peddle their drugs.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Main problem is that it's just fucking massive and has a lot of ground to cover. I wouldn't be surprised if at least a quarter of the PLA is armed with bolt-actions still in the rear echelon units because arming 2.5 million or even just .5 million if you take into account most of those guys are support is a huge undertaking when they have to defend areas as remote as the Himalayas.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      100% likely

      https://i.imgur.com/xmmgk60.jpg

      Are Chinese infantry squads really equipped like this? I can't find any other modern ones.

      This seems quite low on firepower. For example, a Swedish squad of six has two grenade launchers, three anti-tank weapons, and one belt fed machine gun.

      By contrast here we have one drum fed light machine gun using the same smaller cartridge as the assault rifles, and one anti-tank weapon for seven people. More remarkably, the guys on the anti-tank weapon don't have rifles (I assume the weapon must be significantly heavier and harder to operate to justify this?)

      Another contrast, a Swiss squad of six has two anti-tank weapons (both guys with them have assault rifles), two grenade launchers, two belt fed machine guns (5.56mm though), and two anti-tank weapons.

      The only comparable thing to China I've seen is the US Marines: 12 guys, all with the same rifle, no LMG at all, but three grenade launchers at least. I find it weird that the Marines have such large squads and decided not to have either an LMG or a DMR, or better yet, one of those mag fed 20mm or 40mm automatic grenade launchers.

      It seems like this Chinese squad (and the Marines) would be overmatched.

      And can you verify this information to be correct? The source for OPs picture has gotten Finland and Sweden completely wrong for example, this is coming from a Finn
      I'm assuming the USMC info OPs got is also incorrect and I'm basing this on hours of combat camera footage I've seen online.
      OPs image is retarded neverserve-tier Reddit bull

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The USMC thing is true on paper/for training. After the wars were over, the leadership went on an all night crayon binge, during which they had the genius idea "hey, you know that M27 we like... what if we like, gave everyone one, pure simplicity."

        Now to be fair, this might just be solid political maneuvering by the Marines. They wanted the M27, the M16s they were using were getting quite long in the tooth, and so they told the Pentagon "oh, we'll just use one gun, think of the savings." In reality they will bring machineguns back for any deployment.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They're still using M4s in training done a few months ago in Japan.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Assistant Grenadier
    lmao poor fucker

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I assume by "assistant" they actually mean coffee boy or something

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He's too busy humping rockets to carry a rifle.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The chinks don't give their squads much autonomy, they're supposed to work as a platoon. On that note, the platoon has a lot more GLs than any western counterpart, omitting one or both MGs for a beltfed grenade launcher and potentially one of those sniper grenade launchers (its not yet clear who is supposed to use that thing, maybe DMs). They've also got a reloadable launcher at the squad level, which for most western equivalents is a platoon level asset; most US and euro squads would just have something light and disposable like an AT4. The whole points is to punch hard as a platoon and kill quickly, since the chinks have (to their credit) internalized the idea that if they get into a protracted engagement in a peer conflict; an F18 is going to eventually drop a bomb on their heads.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >The only comparable thing to China I've seen is the US Marines: 12 guys, all with the same rifle, no LMG at all, but three grenade launchers at least. I find it weird that the Marines have such large squads and decided not to have either an LMG or a DMR, or better yet, one of those mag fed 20mm or 40mm automatic grenade launchers.
    Do you understand what marines are for?
    They are meant to spearhead and rapid assaults. Having shit like LMGs would weigh them down.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If you're in a firefight long enough that you need a belt fed mg to do your job then something has gone horribly wrong. Every firefight I've been in where machine gunners are doing the heavy lifting has always turned into a 5+ hour affair where artillery or air support settled matters.
      >0331 AMA

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How many firefights were you involved in that involved the enemy also having and semi-proficiently using machine guns?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Afghanistan 2012. The Taliban got really good with PKM's and IED's but if we caught them off guard it was often a one-sided massacre. The Taliban can't shoot for shit, so when it came down to rifles they would often ditch their weapons and try to blend in with the locals, with variable success.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Imagine you're facing professional soldiers with modern weapons and technology (drones for recon, etc.), Level IV armor, and thier own artillery and support instead of goat fuckers with dusty AKs they've fired 10 times total for the most part.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Same thing anon. If you're staying in one place for more than 15min YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. Accurate semi auto does the same to suppress as poorly aimed automatic fire, even more so so regarding troops that have taken fire before. Impacts within 3ft of someone's position dissuades one from poking their head up or bounding, while fire within 10ft does absolutely nothing to veteran troops.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Bullets are bullets no matter who you are dumbass

          Source: it is known
          The chinks have been corrupt for a hundred years, thats why the "yeah thats totally chicken, not stray cat or sewer rat" stereotype exists.
          5.8mm only exists so officers couldn't sell off stocks of it like they were doing with 7.62x39, so it's not a stretch to say that the slants are corrupt.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's great Anon, but in non-asymmetric against actual armies, not insurgents that can only hit and run, it's not uncommon to remain in contact for far longer than was the norm in Afghanistan. People end up operating along a fixed line of contact for weeks at a time.

        If you read reports/stories from Korea, or more recent ones from Ukraine, you get a picture of contact lasting for hours on end. After the initial disasterous rout, when Rigeway took control, you had the US generally fighting from fixed defensive positions, where the firepower provided by automatic weapons and artillery was absolutely essential to dealing with more numerous attackers.

        Contact being over in 15 minutes is a symptom of one side relying on hiding within the civilian populace, having no air support, very limited C&C, and very limited artillery outside of some improvised mortars for the most part.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >After the initial disasterous rout, when Rigeway took control, you had the US generally fighting from fixed defensive positions, where the firepower provided by automatic weapons and artillery was absolutely essential to dealing with more numerous attackers.
          Are we really taking the infantry force with the highest training to equipment gap of the 20th century and calling it the norm
          This was an army that was literally composed of captured/surrendered Japanese WW2 veterans who wished they could've been assigned to iwo Jima and died there instead, a sizable number of Soviet trained Chinese red Army commanders who saw the chosin reservoir retreat and immediately concluded that they'd failed because they personally survived the long march, and literal fucking spooks in every infantry section that made their living off of night time infiltration, all before night vision

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >They are meant to spearhead and rapid assaults.
      They are for amphibious assaults, which have historically been massive slogs. Hence why they have tanks (until very recently).

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If you're in a firefight long enough that you need a belt fed mg to do your job then something has gone horribly wrong. Every firefight I've been in where machine gunners are doing the heavy lifting has always turned into a 5+ hour affair where artillery or air support settled matters.
        >0331 AMA

        They are still for rapid assaults. Heavy armor is the job for the army. If they need heavy armor, they can ask the army to lend their tanks. They can do spearheads while having the army act as support and also reinforce their rearguard. The goal for the marines is to hit fast and hit hard.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Ok retard

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >they can ask the army
          Oh yes, this will work out for them.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The SAW is only five pounds heavier than an M16...

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        yeah, now add 2-3 nutsacks and drums of linked 5.56 to your kit

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >LMG would weigh them down
      >Light machine gun
      >Light thing would be heavy
      are you retarded

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Something being lighter than a 120 lb M2 and tripod does not mean it isnt cumbersome.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The current usmc squad has a weapons specialist in each fire team, so one has a drone operator, one has a DMR, and one had an light At weapon.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just how much armour do you expect a student protest to have?

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The muhreen corpse squad model is actually based on the chinese model, which explains why they are similar.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Both of which are based on the worst case scenario after suffering heavy losses so I can see why the USMC adopted it.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >7 men
    >5 rifles
    I kneel
    Jesus christ even the russians gave their rpg-7 gunners a rifle eventually why don't the-
    >The HEAT rounds weights 8.03kg (17.7lb)

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That seems something more appropriate for a Company/Platoon level Heavy AT section, not a 7 man infantry squad

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    pretty interesting video about chinese artillery and missile capabilities and structure in comparison to the US

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >grenadier
    >carries a fucking rocket launcher

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >rocket propelled GRENADE
      Yes anon, ""Grenadiers"".

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There was a time not too long ago where "grenadier" just meant "taller than average and wearing a fancy hat"

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If they're anything like the paper tiger that Russia turned out to be, no.
    Most units probably still use old AKs and RPGs while propaganda pictures are taken with the newer stuff.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Russia hasn't spent the last 20 years being half the US economy.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They are

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >find it weird that the Marines have such large squads and decided not to have either an LMG or a DMR, or better yet, one of those mag fed 20mm or 40mm automatic grenade launchers.
    broke bros cant afford it

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/4hw8AB1.jpg

      They are

      I remember getting that gun in far cry 4 and it was so disappointing. Why don't they just load them with HEDP and use them to supplement a lighter single use at rocketeer if they're so good. That said they look almost as bad as the fucking 120mm rocket launcher fired from a tripod in reaction speed all for what a 40mm underbarrel with a flatter arc?

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think a squad should have access to multiple launchers, though not always heavy ones. In a city, I want bunker poppers and light AT as I can attack the side or top armor, on open terrain I want heavy AT and quasi ATGM's as the Spike SR or the NLAW.
    A BTR at 60 meters will be penetrated even by a fucking 40mm HEDP, no reason to use a 110mm Panzerfaust on it. Likewise, a tank that just rounded the corner won't care about an M72 LAW.
    In short, don't be an autistic cretin and adapt squad loadouts according to needs.

    A squad should have a designated marksman to pop hostile MG nests and AT guys during offensive movements.

    And the MG guns are needed for supression.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >everyone gets a pistol
      No thanks.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It seems ridiculous to me too. If the idea behind the sidearm is that it's there in case your rifle suffers some malfunction that can't be cleared in the field, why not give the squad leaders two extra rifles. Just have them replace any broken rifles as needed.
        You'd have about the same weight for the squad, but instead of having mostly useless pistol ammo and mags, you'd have more rifle ammo and mags.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think a single german squad could wipe out a whole russian company with all that firepower.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >The only comparable thing to China I've seen is the US Marines: 12 guys, all with the same rifle, no LMG at all
    They think the IAR is good enough. But it's just a phase.
    In every war, the squad's load-out gets heavier, not lighter.

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What about Taiwan's infantry squads?

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >is this true
    >lechina.jpg
    Yes it was published on Amerimutt social media.

    Amerimutt media would never just make up shit and publish it as facts. Especially not faceless Amerimutt social media accounts of selfproclaimed amateur experts. Especially not about China.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    PLA is fielding QBZ-191 now to replace 88
    end is near for your gweilo

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I thought chinks were now trying to run 40mm grenade launchers as an LMG replacement because their piece of shit qjy 88 weighs 30lbs despite shooting basically 5.56

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    literally comma unironically comma seriously comma what period the period fuck period where they fucking thinking period period period

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I actually think we could see more like this. With rockets/smart mortars now having beyond visual range, and with drones able to pass targets back to infantry squads, I could see how it might be worth it to have a reloadable launcher.

    81mm mortars were already good, but if the munition can fly itself around looking for targets, or fire an EFP into armored vehicles, etc. it would seem more useful. Although maybe it makes more sense to have teams deploying semi-autonomous mortars and 105mm field guns for every X number of squads then adding a reloadable launcher to the squad. E.g., every two or three squads has organic fire power and drone recon attached to both.

    The reason this seems more workable now is because these systems have gotten lighter and they can aim and fire themselves. This seems like it could reduce the economies of scale you get pushing all indirect fire support to a larger organization. You can have 3-4 guys for every 2-3 squads that can lend them field gun, rocket, and mortar support, if all they have to do is unload the things, approve fires, and pack them up.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The USMC is going to something like this with the new "systems operator" billet in the squad. From what I understand he is going to operate recon and suicide drones and radios to call for fire. Organic heavy fire support like you suggest is silly because those systems have longer range and don't need to be close to the front. Even as light as they are they are still less mobile than riflemen, not to mention how much the ammo they consume weighs. The killchain for things like mortars is very short as is and will only get shorter as systems like the IVAS and the new smart rifle scope get implemented.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Just use a commando mortar like the french and portuguese.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      nah just put it on an ultra high mobility vehicle so that it can haul ass with all of it's ammo.

      unless the terrain is really rough there should be at least somewhere they can set up that's usefully close to contact, and it means instead of 10 guys with 1 mortar and 90 shells you can have 10 guys with 5 mortars and 500 shells.

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Marines don't need a DMR aor MG because every Marine is a rifleman and focused fire is no different from being suppressed with an MG.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, I just don't see a few guys with 5.56mm being able to pin down a large enemy group for a period the way a machinegun can, especially not at the distances you might want to take advantage of.

      https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1613161627494260738?s=20&t=xDIGqDxTIMCLf5HgAstMpQ
      Example: from earlier in Soledar, a bunch of Fagner guys pinned down by one drone directed machine gun long enough to get deleted by artillery (IDK what type, looks smaller, especially the second one, maybe a 60mm mortar following up?).

      IDK if the gun is an M2 or a KPV. Obviously, you're not going to lug that around everywhere, but there is a middle ground between a 14.5mm MG and only using 5.56mm rifles.

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    More than enough to mow down unarmed protestors

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The US Marine squad has M249s if they want to and rocket launchers too.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Didn't they replaced the bullpup QBZ to the QBZ-191?
    I don't really trust OP's pic, specially since it's from 2017 and the PLA themselves been changing their entire doctrine over the years to a more western oriented.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Very nice looking gun

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Seems aight.

        Do you have any idea how many fucking rifles they would have to make to replace the QBZ-95?

        They're probably cheap as fuck to make, so not really a problem replacing them.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Do you have any idea how many fucking rifles they would have to make to replace the QBZ-95?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Probably won't need to anyway, just enough for parades and PR
        They'll send the troops to war with SKSs and AKs

        Anybody China would be fighting with, the rifles are tertiary (first is missiles, secondary is artillery). They're more of a just in case, they won't need actual firepower

        Seeing the combat training propaganda they put out I'm not so sure anybody should be worried about chink missiles or artillery either

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anybody China would be fighting with, the rifles are tertiary (first is missiles, secondary is artillery). They're more of a just in case, they won't need actual firepower

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't think its up to date or describes a normal light infantry squad, this is more like a AT/weapons squad. That being said its pretty hardcore that two guys are just there to fling rockets at shit and nothing else.

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    don't try to build more infantry than china

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Posting Battle Order
    His shit's always incorrect and basically exists as Reddit bait.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      only incels would get so upset at someone supporting trans and LGBT people groups.

      durrr jesus

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i'm carrying the big gun

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      he got the preorder camo

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They are simplifying their logistics chains. Less specialized gear and unique weapons the easier it is to resupply in the field. That in itself should tell the story about how Bejing is thinking about battlefield strategy.

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