All tactics are really "human wave" tactics when you get down to it.

All tactics are really "human wave" tactics when you get down to it. Guys like Grant and Zhukov just didn't bullshit about it. Why are they so maligned when they got results?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Read a Grant biography last year, now a huge fan. Anybody have a good english bio on Zhukov?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Death of Stalin is a terrible bio but a great film.
      Then read a book so you know how they fricked around with history to make a movie.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Well yeah its a comedy first and a historical film second. That's like getting mad at blackadder for not being a perfect representation of WWI

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The ukraine war has convinced me that blackadder is the only ww1 film to get it right.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No, it wasn't. Like Death of Stalin, Blackadder is a COMEDY. Not a historical fiction. It plays up popular conceptions of what the war *was* for laughs.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              You have autism.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              This Black person didn't watch or finish black adder ww1

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >boohoo war le bad we should just ignore islamists, cartels, russians, communists and other thirdies invading first world nations. #lovewins

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >just ignore islamists, cartels, russians, communists
                yes, we only can ignore Black folk

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >we

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >850 bases
                >Source: I made it up

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >first world nations
                No country that does not respect God's Second Amendment is first world, or even populated by humans.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Do I sound mad?
          Anon wanted facts so I'm just warning that DoS isn't super historical, though almost everything in it is roughly true in some way

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You do.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Death of Stalin is probably the most accurate movie about the subject.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Sadly it really is.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Death of Stalin stuck mostly true to history but it condensed the real history to a space of about 5 days rather than the 6 months or so it really was

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Read a Grant biography last year
      Was it Ron Chernow's? Good book

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It was the bio by Ronald C. White. Good read, would recommend

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous
      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Thank you comrade

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          bump

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Read Grants own book. He was a great writer.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Ok so you remember what the soviet union achieved?
    Now imagine what they would have achieved if they had 1.5x the population.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      literally the same? if not worse because feeding a 1.5x population that had just lost its most productive areas is detrimental if anything.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Whoah
      They could've starved even MORE people to death!

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      you think they'd get more lend-lease gibs to at least keep same gibs: population proportion?

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    All OPs are flaming homos when you get down to it. Guys like OP and anon just didn't bullshit about it. Why are they so maligned when they got so many facials?

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Why are they so maligned when they got results?

    Because that mindset when taken to its natural conclusion leads you to this.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      And if they'd thrown 10 times that at the position they probably would have taken it. Enough men gets the job done --all other things equal, of course.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        In the era of cluster munitions? No.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          If all other things were equal? Yes, men still count. You need men to man the systems and men to take an area. Cluster munitions do not change that

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I feel like equating Grant to the peculiarly Russian trait of just hurling men at the enemy is unfair to him, especially considering the Vicksburg Campaign

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's also unfair to the Soviets because the whole reason they resorted to these tactics was that their country was in immediate danger of total destruction (and genocide of its inhabitants) unless they brought the Blitzkrieg to a halt.

      Grant never faced the threat of the Confederacy laying waste to Chicago or New York and exterminating their inhabitants. He had time and options.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        moron, the only genocide Russia was in danger of was by their own Communist leaders.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          so did Germany just invade as a friendly hello?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            German plan was to unite the world under Hitler's rule
            Soviet plan was to unite the world under Stalin's rule
            They were never meant to coexist in any way

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Did Hitler declare everyone left past the frontline a traitor to the motherland? No? Then he’s nowhere near close to the commies in regards to genocide

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >he’s nowhere near close to the commies in regards to genocide

                The Soviets didn't build camps dedicated to the exclusive purpose of murdering people and then robbing them of everything of value.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                yeah, they took care of all that in-situ, they didn't bother trying to hide it

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Were these the camps where people would be torn apart by eagles?
                That's canon, you're not even allowed to question that in some countries. It's illegal to dispute that in the camps, the Nazis regularly used trained eagles to kill people in giant thunderdome cages.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Don't lie about the holocaust anon.

                There was a bear there too.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >It's totally unheard of that people who went through extremely fricked situations to wildly embellish claims.
                >It's totally unheard of for people who weren't apart of extremely fricked situations to make up utterly moronic shit in their attempts to get in on the sympathy wagon.
                >It's totally unheard of for people to unironically false flag claims regarding very fricked up shit for the sake of poisoning the well of real accounts of said fricked shit
                israelites are moronic when it comes to the holocaust, but saying shit like this just makes people who want a clean historical record look like Fetal Alcohol Syndrome children with Down's Syndrome. Like (You).
                If you believe eagle shit or masturbation machine shit in the US, even the israelites look at you like you're moronic

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                So, we all agree that many of the accounts about the Holocaust, that you can be imprisoned for questioning, are false, whether by lies or delusions, and that everyone defending them, publishing them, etc is an active, intentional liar.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                can you get to the part where you say that they deserved the Holocaust and skip the bullshit? there's no need to pretend here

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Did they deserve to be put in cages with eagles or launched out of mine cart roller coasters?

                Post your gun, you weepy c**t.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I never understood this particular path of schizophrenia. You don't believe muh eagles, nobody in the audience does, quite literally everyone understands it's not true. But you get completely 100% stuck on this single thing and become completely moronic when anyone wants to discuss anything in any further detail. You try to take this obvious thing (there were no eagle murder machines) and stretch it to other things that suit your conclusion which you defend with circular logic (imprisoning isn't real also apparently).

                >It's totally unheard of that people who went through extremely fricked situations to wildly embellish claims.
                >It's totally unheard of for people who weren't apart of extremely fricked situations to make up utterly moronic shit in their attempts to get in on the sympathy wagon.
                >It's totally unheard of for people to unironically false flag claims regarding very fricked up shit for the sake of poisoning the well of real accounts of said fricked shit
                israelites are moronic when it comes to the holocaust, but saying shit like this just makes people who want a clean historical record look like Fetal Alcohol Syndrome children with Down's Syndrome. Like (You).
                If you believe eagle shit or masturbation machine shit in the US, even the israelites look at you like you're moronic

                Schizophrenia does that to you.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                None of the prisoners at Andersonville said anything approaching that level of moronation though. What gives there?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                This is true though, I saw this happen in Jurassic Park 3. Really fricked up, dude gets torn apart by birds and then shows up inexplicably later on.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                They werent, you lefty shithead. They were workcamps just like the gulags.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Lmao I would pay to see how long you survive in a German “work camp” enjoy slave labor until your body gives out . A actual delusional take on the subject

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >The german death camps where they sprayed people with bug spray in the bathroom till they died are real
                >But the Gulags where tens of millions died are fake

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >The Soviets didn't build camps dedicated to the exclusive purpose of murdering people and then robbing them of everything of value.
                They did have camps dedicated to extracting forced labor from political prisoners in inhumane conditions that were largely ran by incompetents and psychopaths. Not exactly the same, mind you, but they're pretty similar.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You had a high probability of dying in both

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                oh, that's definitely true. Between the deranged work quotas, the minuscule rations, the thief-in-law's having free-reign over everything, and the generally awful environment people were working in, deaths were pretty high in the gulag.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Then what the frick do you call Gulags?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Sure they just shot them, engineered a famine, or deported them to die in Siberia. When you are mincing degrees of cruelty on these levels you really need to get your head checked.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                He did in 44 "deserteure werden hingerichtet" they hanged suspected deserters and traitors from lampposts

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Ah, yes, the fabled genocide. Not the one done by commies, mind you.

          The authors of Generalplan Ost and the Hunger Plan would like a word with you.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Post gun with timestamp

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Your turn homosexual

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >australian

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >16 hours later, no response

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >16 hours later, no response

                >replying with gun to a request that DID NOT INCLUDE gun first
                You’re making this board more shit by doing this. You know that, right?
                No gun, no gun

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >No gun, no gun
                That has NEVER been the case you newbie tourist, that exchange went exactly how it was supposed to from the dawn of the fricking board. Accused ALWAYS posts first because it's a fricking filter, dipshit. It's literally based on the "post breasts or GTFO" shitpost, and no one says "you first" to that you dumb homosexual.
                Everything about that interaction was correct.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Stalin might have a word or two to say to you

            That is, if you can get out of the gulag.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Generalplan Ost
            Literal tankie hoax. Frick off back to /CHUG/ with that shit.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          this is what happens when you let morons gut the education system.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >the whole reason they resorted to these tactics was that their country was in immediate danger of total destruction
        where was this immediate danger during the battle for seelow heights?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Grant never faced the threat of the Confederacy laying waste to Chicago or New York and exterminating their inhabitants. He had time and options.
        This. People say "well DC is right at the Virginia border", not realizing that there was a reason DC only came under direct attack ONCE during the entire war: because Washington DC was at the time the most heavily-fortified city on the planet, it would be suicide to attack it.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The upper half of Virginia might as well have been part of Maryland because the Union controlled it for virtually the entire war and part of it ultimately became West Virginia. Even if the Confederacy had won, it would have almost certainly been forced to permanently cede it to the United States as a buffer zone for Washington DC.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I’d do it again anon. If only to just watch that city burn

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous
      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Ah, yes, the fabled genocide. Not the one done by commies, mind you.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >threat of loosing
        >hmm better use shitty meat wave tactics

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/q3gNraN.jpg

        [...]

        The authors of Generalplan Ost and the Hunger Plan would like a word with you.

        This is what happens to a board when you invite reddit

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >in order to prevent the genocide of my people I will execute all of my people that run away from said genocide.
        No NATO propagandist can make vatnik shills sound more moronic than vatniks themselves.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          it's important to signal boost and translate for them, so that people can notice how moronic they are
          it's difficult to put together if you only see it bits and pieces at a time

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, Grant was a pioneer in a lot of strategies. Yes he understood that the South couldn't match the North in resources, but he wasn't just drowning them in blood. All the dying in the world doesn't mean a thing if you just sit there and take it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Grant was a much better tactition out west than he was out east

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah he defeated luminaries like pemberton and pillow

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You can get the same results for less cost. Efficiency is how you win attrition.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >All tactics are really "human wave" tactics when you get down to it.
    a human wave tactic is specific to an attack made primarily by, or exclusively by, infantry
    the intent being to get as close as possible to the enemy to negate any fire advantage they have and maximize the number advantage you might have

    a pure human wave of unsupported infantry rushing across an open field has probably never happened in the modern era, and it arguably hasnt happened historically with any regularity
    attacking infantry would at the very least have support from mortars and machine guns

    even the soviet attacks of WW2 werent human wave attacks
    infantry had the 76mm and 122mm howitzer to support them, and a ton of mortars
    and lots of non-divisional artillery that would be attached, so even if heavy artillery wasnt in a divison that didnt mean they werent being supported by it

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What grant did was not human wave tactics he used mass assaults to pressure the enemy into breaking he wasn't needlessly sending men into there deaths.
      What he was doing was efficient and quick.
      He was using dencde formations to break confederate lines and cause of that "density" the causality were higher "yes" but it was not human wave tactics.
      >like an elephant standing on a iron beam bending it
      the tactics grant employed were solely meant to crush the confederates with the weigh and superiority of union manpower
      Not moronic meat assaults like the russians.the russians at most any given moment during ww2 was at and equal foothold with the Germans, only difference is the soviets could replace causalites alot quicker.

      Exactly. What I think OP meant to say was that war is at its core a numbers game. To an extent this is true, in a vacuum. But there are so many other variables and Grant and Zhukov did not just mindlessly spam divisions to win.

      All in all though the guy with more men and stuff has a huge advantage.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >All in all though the guy with more men and stuff has a huge advantage.
        Why didn't China win the Sino-Vietnamese War?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          force multipliers
          and Uncle Ho REALLY wanted his McDonalds

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Its an advantage, not a certainty.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Numbers aren't that big of an advantage in the jungle because it's so much harder to fight with formation.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The vietnam-china border is mountains and rivers, it's hell to fight in but not as jungly as where the US fought

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            This. "Advances" in thick jungle was measured in yards and meters. The Jungle is Neutral.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              they also didnt attack in that large a number
              chinese claim they attacked with only 200,000 men, opposed to about 150,000 vietnamese
              so they didnt outnumber the vietnamese by that large amount of men

              they were also somehow less coordinated than they were in korea
              the chinese used infiltration tactics to close the distance and hug the belt against the americans to negate their firepower advantage, they took insane losses in the process but they were at least able to stay in the fight
              but the chinese brass learned the wrong lesson, believing their men were too timid and not zealous enough, and so attacked with more force but less finesse against the vietnamese

              arguably closer to human wave attacks than they ever were in korea, though still doesnt fit the technical definition because they supported their attacks with artillery and armor
              but it was more chinese incompetence rather than the terrain specifically that lead to such underwhelming performance

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        when someone says "human wave" they generally wont mean things like defense in depth, where the defenders use their mobility to continuously retreat to a shorter defensive line and draw out the advance of the enemy
        nor do they refer to fixing enemy units with artillery and then avoid directly fighting them with your own infantry so you can envelope them instead

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >. What I think OP meant to say was that war is at its core a numbers game
        this is where magnifying factors come into play

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The Korean War was definitely human wave tactics
      Just watching the footage of nks rushing, that's shit was definitely human wave tactics

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >The Korean War was definitely human wave tactics
        chinese used infiltration tactics to move large groups of men into position to avoid being sighted and only revealing themselves after having already closed the distance, and usually supported by mortars and machine guns

        they took heavy losses because of the sheer disparity in firepower between them and the allies, and not enough radios to actually coordinate the many individual moving parts required to to successfully maneuver large amounts of men
        but they were at least trying to avoid simply charging enemy positions and attacked with supporting units like light artillery

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Didn't North Korea start out the war with more tanks than the PLA?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Didn't North Korea start out the war with more tanks than the PLA?

          The start of US involvement in the Korean war was basically Pusan vs. the entire rest of both Koreas in terms of total landmass
          DPRK absolutely fricking steamrolled the ROK forces southwards.
          The success of their human wave rolling south was completely negated by MacArthur, Almond, and Olly Smith leveraging combined arms and maneuver warfare against them and landing nearly simultaneously at Incheon, Wonsan, and Iwon.
          Chosin happened because China didn't anticipate competence from the US forces, while simultaneously threatening the US political command structure leading to Truman telling MacArthur "Stay away from the fricking border."

          30,000 freezing tired US GI's with no artillery, air, or naval support held off 120,000 chinese forces, mostly because if you don't correct for force multipliers, your human wave tactic results in you getting your shit absolutely slapped

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Pretty sure Iran contained the much more sophisticated Iraqi army with human waves

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Human wave is inefficient use of lives. If lives are cheap it means their equipment and training also need to be cheap.

    But keep pretending that communists are people, they aren't.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      t. ruffians at the turnstile

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >All tactics are really "human wave" tactics when you get down to it.
    t. joint statemeny by the ghosts of Grant and Zhukov

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Grant is only maligned by morons. He was a fantastic general. Hit and miss as President, but whatcha gonna do?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Grant is only maligned by morons.
      No he was maligned by Lost Cause revisionists with an axe to grind, which yeah you can say, "like I said, morons", but that ignores a very clear and deliberate maliciousness behind it. They always bring up shit like his drinking and saying he was a bad general because of it, but he only really became an alcoholic AFTER the war specifically because of PTSD he got from the war.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        He was clearly an alcoholic well before the war. It's known that he washed out in California partially due to his drinking (how much of that was fallout from the Spanish-American War and how much was due to a general lack of purpose in life is unclear). The Lost Causers are stupid and exaggerating things, to be sure, and they have lots of fuel to do it with, especially given the fights over Grant's reputation during/after his presidency, and the fact that he was otherwise a calm and emotionally controlled man, so it was obvious when he was drinking. But the rehabilitators saying "he never drank during the war!" miss a lot too. Both groups are treating it as a moral failing, rather than a disease.
        Lots of alcoholics are capable of drinking and otherwise being perfectly functional. Grant in particular was a binge drinker, generally in response to a relief of stress ("the big battle's over, so now I can have a drink"). His bad decisions as a general (pretty few, especially for a Civil War commander) weren't caused by intoxication, but that doesn't mean he wasn't an alcoholic.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >but he only really became an alcoholic AFTER the war
        >was literally hung over and reportedly stank of vomit over when Lee surrendered at Appomattox

        What was arguably the greatest day of his life and he was as shitfaced as your average mobik

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          is getting shitfaced to celebrate a great triumph not normal? its not his wedding.. completely normal behavior.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I'd be shitfaced too if I just won the fricking war, wtf

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Hit and miss as President
      The problem was less him and more his cabinet. By all accounts Grant's biggest problem as president was he was too trusting of people he should've been more wary of.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Grant was George W?

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What grant did was not human wave tactics he used mass assaults to pressure the enemy into breaking he wasn't needlessly sending men into there deaths.
    What he was doing was efficient and quick.
    He was using dencde formations to break confederate lines and cause of that "density" the causality were higher "yes" but it was not human wave tactics.
    >like an elephant standing on a iron beam bending it
    the tactics grant employed were solely meant to crush the confederates with the weigh and superiority of union manpower
    Not moronic meat assaults like the russians.the russians at most any given moment during ww2 was at and equal foothold with the Germans, only difference is the soviets could replace causalites alot quicker.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >All tactics are really "human wave" tactics when you get down to it.
    That's a dumb take.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >got swept by 5 racks all in on ladder and is still fricking assmad

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Could be, could also be a Goth main salty over getting told that post-Imp barracks spam takes no skill.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Aside from WW2, can you name any other occasion where Russia meatwaves produced results? Because they lost ebry other war in the 20th century and they always used this tactic.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brusilov_offensive

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >All tactics are really "human wave" tactics when you get down to it
    what did he mean by this

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >All tactics are really "human wave" tactics
    Wrong

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You have to have a PLAN when doing human waves though. You don't just throw men at a problem and hope it works out, which I know is what you were thinking it meant. Grant learned this at Cold Harbor.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Human wave tactics are only vindicated if using those tactics don't have nakedly negative effects on your post-war recovery.
    Grant's actions didn't make the Northern states into dysgenic-inhabited shitheaps after the Civil War.
    Zhukov's actions more or less made that outcome a guarantee for the Soviets.
    Scale of the wars plays some part, but when you adjust for population of each nation at the time they fought, it's not as if the North lost a *totally* insignificant number of men relative to total population. Yet, the Northern states generally yielded proper fine men after the war to take America into the 20th century. Hell, the Southern States did, too.
    To put it in perspective, grandsons of Civil War veterans went off to fight and win in WWI and WWII, then come home to build-out the Pax Americana.
    What did the grandsons of Soviet veterans of WWII achieve?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This is more due to Slavic inferiority inherent to their race. Note that the US started going downhill after their kind was allowed in.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >use slave armies to conquer large swaths of land
      >ship back the inhabitants as slaves to replenish your armies
      >repeat

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What about elephants wave tactics

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      PROOOOOHHHHH :----DDDDDD

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Why are they so maligned when they got results?
    Because the """""""results""""""" you get from this tactic is the deepening of a nations demographic death spiral.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's really funny how Grant gets labeled as some kind of butcher when his predecessors spent just as much men and more and had nothing to show for it.

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Let's charge uphill at the English longbow men and into their fortifications and dismounted men at arms!

    Was there ever a more obvious case of "let's rush directly into our deaths in the most disadvantageous situation possible?"

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      outside of Russia?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Medieval people and the French in particular really thought that skill and armor levels were a real thing, where one armored lvl 50 noble could single handed kill ten shitty lvl 8 archers regardless of situation.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        unfortunately it was a lvl 50 knight vs lvl 50 archers, they made the classic mistake of underestimating their enemy

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It worked most of the time

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >All tactics are really "human wave" tactics when you get down to it. Guys like Grant and Zhukov just didn't bullshit about it. Why are they so maligned when they got results?
    because men fight wars, not women. It's a tragedy to watch anyone, enemy or friend sent to war be killed by watching them get wasted against an entrenched position just hoping to exert enough attrition and weariness to force the enemy to give up that position.
    It's the exact same reason you don't kill people who have surrendered - it's a waste of life and wartime doesn't last forever.

    They got results, but efficiently persecuting an objective will always be preferable to leaning on sheer numbers to accomplish something.
    The apex of warfare for geopolitical means is to completely decapitate the enemy's command structure in one short operation while simultaneously staging forces to stabilize a region left in limbo by this.
    The apex of warfare for ethnic reasons is to displace or eliminate a population as quickly as possible with as little bloodshed as possible.

    Consider Fireforce and MacArthur's Korea campaign.
    Fireforce managed the Zimbo forces with spectacular efficiency and minimal loss of life. The failure of Rhodesia was a political and ethnic one, but the strategy used to persecute their objectives was high art.
    MacArthur could have liberated the entirety of Korea had Eisenhower allowed him to leverage the full force of simply what was available in Korea, however the objective of Korea was not to liberate Korea but create a half-baked geopolitical limbo with China. Thus, rather than nuking the uninhabited border to slap sense into the Chinese, MacArthur had a hand tied behind his back and we watched human wave tactics fail against freezing, hungry GI's with frozen rifles at Chosin until half of Korea was just given up.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Even further, in Vietnam, the US had the capability to win, however there were two problems:
      #1, Vietnam was a French colony and we were waging war for the french, so it couldn't be destroyed in a way that left it crippled.
      #2, Nobody wanted to die in a human wave attack against Hill #32129
      Because the US was in constant contact with China while fighting in Vietnam, the US was being fed intelligence, some good, some bad, but was also being advised where Chinese and Soviet personnel would be, and was directed to not attack these people, lest they draw a military response from either power.
      So in this, you see now the meta of modern proxy warfare where occasionally a position would be abandoned by the enemy with guns spiked and traps laid, you go to seize the position, have a bunch of guys killed by the rear guard or blown up by traps, only to be told by a superior that you need to relinquish that position a month later.

      Human wave tactics only work in a specific subset of the game theory of war, and aren't a winning strategy for a large proportion of other strategic and tactical situations.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Vietnam was a French colony and we were waging war for the french
        Why do I keep seeing this dumb Black person talking point every fricking time? France left and America came in as part of their containment strategy fearing a domino effect in SEA if commie North Vietnam annex not-commie South Vietnam.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Eisenhower and Truman were both commies who betrayed not only their nations, but their allies as well in their pursuit of geopolitical goals that were based on misfounded optimism, if Dewey or Stevenson had won their respective elections the world would be a better place as the USSR wouldn't have been able to turn all the colonies into communist allies.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Why are they so maligned when they got results?
    /k/ doesnt know who mclellan is apparently

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >/k/ doesnt know who mclellan is apparently
      A Union general that was so timid with his army that he ensured that the war would continue as long as it did?
      He had a great plan, let's attack Richmond on the 2nd year of the war, that would have seriously fricked up Confederacy and as I said shorten the Civil War atleast year or two. But he was so god damn useless in using his superior numbers that he ran away as soon as the confederal army showed any sort of aggressiviness.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Lincoln says McCllelan can build an Army and Train It.
        >McCllelan is a replacement for Basedfield Scott (A southerner) dying.
        >Lincoln begs McCllelan to attack
        >McCllelan shits his pants at the thought of battle and loaing the Army he built.
        >Grant is racking up victories in the West and putting himself in danger when he to escape during the time confederal troops were overtaking the area ans made a heroic jump with his horse to a departing water barge

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Grant was forced to have horrendous casualties because weapons advanced further than the tactics and equipment used at the time. The Soviets did the same with worse casualty rates during the time of tanks and functional radios because they just sucked.

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Zhukov is over-rated even among the soviet union's general. He's not bad, but he's not 200iq tier.

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I prefer Sherman to Grant, Sherman declared that war is hell and set about proving it

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >All tactics are really "human wave" tactics when you get down to it.
    No they aren't

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Zhukov invented Blitzkried and never had used anything like human wave.

    Russian army under Soviets in WW2 was massively armed with minethrowers and small caliber cannons. Just like the Russian army in the last days of the Russian Empire.

    Cannons and minethrowers (minethrowers in 1917 were a variation of cannons and were more rare, but that's not very relevant detail) could easily frick up anyone and where extremely mobile. So any imbecile that would want to attack, would get a mine to the head.
    And when Russians were attacking, they were quickly taking over all the avaliable places, making trenches there, to cover the gun, and firing tonnes of shells from cannons and minethrowers all day every day.

    Reich was losing millions of Prussians (Saxons were only glad to send more) and the press cope was that "but Russians lose more, because... because muh human waves".

    Peculiarly Black person General Lloyd "the hypersonic prostate Black person" Austin*, used human waves not as tactics even, but as strategy. And to overwhelm Russian battlegroups, nato developed mega-plan to attack every Russian battle-group with 4000 people, which would overwhelm Russian officers and make them lose. (sic)

    *he was black

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Grant didn't use human waves.

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It worked for Zhukov because Zhukov had the entire iron curtain to throw at the Krauts.
    Wave tactics in the right context are fine, wave tactics in EVERY context are moronic.

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Top notch thread friend.
    I'm trying to raise the average post quality, anyone have suggestions for the missing panels or improvements for the ones I filled?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      maybe omaha beach for center left

      center right can be just about anything lol, may as well put a comedy option there, like the operation to kill osama bin laden

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