Air to Water or Geothermal? Memes or efficient heating?

Air to Water or Geothermal? Memes or efficient heating?
What kind of heat pumps are the most efficient in terms of cost and electricity?
What experiences do you have with them?

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    only worth it if electricity is cheap or the heating system is low temp like underfloor
    if you're euro and it looks like they want to ban gas boilers and the house is one you want to keep yeah

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Always insulate as much as possible first, then try to be efficient.

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Geo is my more efficient at 3cop for 55C,
    Air to water is around 2. Best to use air to air heat pump for heating ( cop 4) and heat water with whatever you have.
    Air-to-air pump, 2k€ for 4kW
    Air-to-water 8k€ for 6kW
    Geo, 10+8k€ for 8kW

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      best is geo to water (floor heating, 30-35C is enough if house is insulated properly)
      giving fixed cop is moronic, it really depends on outside temperature and hot heat source temp, but even in same conditions different models from same manufacturer have wildly varying cop

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    If you live in somewhere that gets below freezing, you want ground sourced otherwise efficiency will drop so much it's a waste of money.
    If it only extremely rare drops below freezing, air sourced.
    If you want cooling more than heating, Air to air (ie AC), will mean moving air in your house and possibly need ducting.

    Remember you will need to occasionally heat your central heating water to 60c which a heat pump won't manage to you'll need to use an inefficient immersion heater occasionally.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Norwegian here, where I live -25C is normal. Only a few air-to-air heat pumps work down to -30 C and those are a bit more expensive than others. Still, mine have worked well; an IVT Nordic for about 15 years before the compressor failed, now I have a Mitsubishi.

      Geothermal is expensive but probably cheaper to install when building the house. Removing soil and gravel costs more than sinking a bore hole into rock.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/9JwH3KF.png

        Air to Water or Geothermal? Memes or efficient heating?
        What kind of heat pumps are the most efficient in terms of cost and electricity?
        What experiences do you have with them?

        another norwegian working in the field, new air to water daikins have their stamped efficency tested and proven down to -28 and will average 3,5 to 1 cop during normal winter here. its extremely common to have just air-water or air-air as the primary heating in a house, obviously with electric panels and/or fireplace as backup in just in case.
        geothermal or well really isnt worth it any longer.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I was just quoted pic related air to water daikin at around 9k€ with indoor unit. How satisfied are people with them?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Imagine you put your compressor inside a little greenhouse on the south side of the building. How would that work?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          you would get a friggin cold little greenhouse on the south sideof the building and no working heat pump within short time

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      It's 2023. The only people that seriously think the language in this post matches reality have a hand in trying to set homes up with different heat sources or are haved been duped and eaten up the propaganda by those who do with not an iota of questioning.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Also solar is the cheapest march to september even up here in Funland.
    Vacuum tubes are cheap, ridiculously cheap.

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Geothermal is more effective and ecologically sound. this is because the heat is pushed into the earth rather than the atmosphere. it is also drawn from the ground rather than the atmosphere. this prevents heat displacement in the weather patterns. such phenominon can be seen with "City heat bubbles" where the heat from AC systems in cities pus out so much hot air that it will literally redirect weather patterns.

    however the first thing to do is to make your house as thermally efficient as possible. by putting the heat into the ground you store thermal energy rather than dump it into the weather patterns. if done correctly you will regenerate the heat in the winter and store it in the summer.

    >the beginning of terraforming

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      That first paragraph gave me a headache. It's all bullshit.

      Geothermal is a great idea but in my career as a mechanical engineer I have never seen it executed correctly.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_heat_island

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          thread is about heat pumps, if you didnt know they cool down outside air.
          other sources like ground or ses causes more trouble, there is a city close to me that run a central heating system based of theit hockey/ice area, the extra heat they draw from a circuit in the fjord collecting sea water.
          since they started it that area of the beach has been frozen solid year round and the efficency of the system has been crap.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            wow, I didn't know you failed your thermodynamics class. are you using philosopher stones or something? did you sacrifice your brother for the sake of trying to get your mother back?

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              you are drunk

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                no, I'm a physicist and construction manager.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                ok. industrial fridgie with 20 years in the field doing everything from small minisplits to gigantic co2 cooling/heating systems.
                explain what i said thats wrong, except the fact i was actually drunk when i posted and esl so my writing was pretty shit. but atleast i didnt get into harry potter shit and mommy jokes.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                where the heat go? you have to conserve energy.

                a heat pump moves heat from one location to another. insulation keeps heat contained in an area. for simple physics we can ignore heat dumped into the environment, but on the regional and global scale, the heat creation is not insignificant.

                the Goal with Geo-thermal (underground cooling) is to sink the heat into the ground in summer, and draw out the heat in winter. so instead of burning new energy to create waste heat, we can conserve the existing waste heat, reducing waste heat output into the environment. this overall reduces the loss of unnesary energy from energy resources.

                >is energy efficient
                >reduces local thermal output.
                >reduces fuel usage (from heating homes)

                so pretty much the truth is opposite your claim.

                >a refrigerator becomes an AC when you dump the heat outside of the building
                >an ass-load of dirt works pretty well as an insulator.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >I'm a physicist and construction manager
                and yet you dont know what a heat pump is and what its used for. think residential ac in reverse, its used to heat up your house or whatever you need to heat up. air/air cheapest and most common as retrofit on old houses, air/water a bit more expensive and used on most new houses, and then again water/water being above that again. last quote i heard of drilling a well for geothermal was 15 000€ and then you need a 5000 € water/water heat pump and plumbing on top of that. or you can just buy two air/air units for 2500 each and call it a day.
                geothermal heat/cold storage on a large scale looks great on paper and i been in a handfull of such projects, none of them have yielded the desired result. you simply have no control of whats actually going on deep underground.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I never said Geo-thermal was cheaper. it is hella expensive to install as a retro fit. so what they do is basically drill a bunch of vertical holes.

                at 20ft in the ground, in most places there isn't anything to bother the system. also water isn't always used, or at-least pure water. if you have perma-frost it is a problem, because that can reach down past the thermal system.

                https://earthhow.com/permafrost/

                you actually do have some knowledge of what is in the ground, and that is supposed to be the point of have a geology sample and scanning. is to reduce liability. given your answers are in euro explains a lot, because American and European codes and standards are different as are our weather patterns.

                as a general rule,
                >in hot weather areas: more insulation helps to solve most problems.
                >in humid-mild weather areas: you have to have AC, you also need really good drainage because your AC will also dehumidify, a river's worth of water. don't really need good heating.
                >in humid-cold weather areas: you want tight control over your temperature because you need to heat in the winter and cool in the summer.
                >in near-arctic and arctic weather areas: you basically heat your house all year long, but also that heat will melt the ice below your house... so you need a thick foundation or to raise the house on stilts.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Uk heating gay here, we pay £5000 per 125M bore hole which includes a 40mm ground loop. Biggest install ive done on a ground loop system consisted of 12 bore holes at a cost of £40K connected to a 45KW Vaillant ground source heatpump. Its a good system but the running costs are pretty high as its using approx 10KW per phase when running full chat.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Guess again dipshit, go look at Phoenix or Tucson some time. There's also strange weather phenomenon associated with I-95 and I-81 on the east coast. Shit is very real; but however, I vehemently deny that AGCC is real on a meaningful scale outside localized atmospherics

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I've seen full 600 ft. depth geothermal water-water systems get like 2 C delta T. Absolutely not worth it IMO.

    Better to dig a gas well.

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Geothermal
    It's interesting because your source or sink are isothermal depending on mode. It avoids the issue of bottoming out the refrigerant when it is acting as a heat pump. However, it's probably not worth the additional capital upfront unless electricity prices are through the roof.

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