Because the US government is now ruled by israeli progressives, whether formally the GOP or Dems are in charge.
You can't win a war anymore like you could in 1945 because you're fundamentally a different country today.
>disaster
It wasn't a disaster when it comes to military operations. Politically/sociologically, it was awful. People don't give a shit and we stopped going after the taliban in 2014. In theory, the Afghan republic after the U.S. stopped their ground operations in Afghanistan was supposed to take up the mantle in destroying the taliban and prevent them from taking territory. It did not bore fruit because of the ineptitude of the Afghan government/military. The U.S. should have forced the Afghan republic to reform rather than doing a laissez faire policy if no getting directly involved in the host governments politics. Aside from that, there was nothing wrong with Afghanistan operationally speaking. It was never an issue with military actions.
It's far too long to explain in one thread but I like pic related, it's a pretty good book on the CIA/American intelligence's involvement in Afghanistan from 2001 onwards. The same author has another book called Ghost Wars covering 1980 to 2001 and I'm reading that one now but haven't got through enough of it to give you a review.
No problem anon. If I had more book recommendations on hand I'd give them to you but alas.
Sorry about the other responses in this thread also we have a very persistent sliding/troll group shitting up the board right now and people are a bit twitchy about it.
>also we have a very persistent sliding/troll group shitting up the board right now
Are you sure they actually exist, and it's not the paranoids calling everyone armawarriortardenis that are responsible for the disruption?
Anyone got an uncensored version of "Jawbreakers"? Apparently, its the best book on CIA run black ops missions in Afghanistan, but its been censored to hell and back and completely unreadable. I wanna find an uncensored copy.
>they let OBL go at Tora Bora
Instead of the Northern Alliance I'd have sent in bunker busters. But that would have ended the war real quick, no profit.
I wouldn't do anything different.
They decided to fuck around and waste our money/time so now they get rolled over and massacred. At no point in time are middle eastern peoples our "allies"
t. Veteran of there
How long were you there?
The afghans genuinely don't give a shit. The average /k/ fag will say lol fuck ny or ca but it still doesn't compare to how little of a fuck was and is given by the urban, rural, and tribal afghans. Everyone besides the special forces that joined the ANA were there to collect a paycheck. Unironically a war where the pencil pushes/Guys in the back were doing the heavy lifting and we should've listened to them when they were finding sketchy shit like the whole ghost soldiers things just so high ranking brass or other afghan officials can get extra gibs. >Fix
Either stop giving a shit the second they weren't going full motard and leave or go full British but with better logistics. You don't turn an atomized islamic country into a united western liberal democracy/republic without basically commiting a genocide to remove islamo-whatever the fuck ideology they have.
why does the west keep trying to spread their gay democracy lmao?
I wouldn't do anything different.
They decided to fuck around and waste our money/time so now they get rolled over and massacred. At no point in time are middle eastern peoples our "allies"
t. Veteran of there
The afghans genuinely don't give a shit. The average /k/ fag will say lol fuck ny or ca but it still doesn't compare to how little of a fuck was and is given by the urban, rural, and tribal afghans. Everyone besides the special forces that joined the ANA were there to collect a paycheck. Unironically a war where the pencil pushes/Guys in the back were doing the heavy lifting and we should've listened to them when they were finding sketchy shit like the whole ghost soldiers things just so high ranking brass or other afghan officials can get extra gibs. >Fix
Either stop giving a shit the second they weren't going full motard and leave or go full British but with better logistics. You don't turn an atomized islamic country into a united western liberal democracy/republic without basically commiting a genocide to remove islamo-whatever the fuck ideology they have.
Instead of enforcing or policing, I would make it clear to everyone that all civilians are insurgents, all females are fair game and please don't post your footage online unless it's behind some paywall gore site
This is a war on terror, not a state of America!
Anon, don't compare conventional wars with insurgencies. WW2 was not a insurgency and was won conventionally. We still win wars when it comes to conventional shit, but insurgencies shluld be treated differently as goals can change. In a insurgency, you need a strong host government to not let the entire thing fall. Foreign militaries are merely a bandaid when it comes to security.
This, if possible incorporate various ethnic areas into neighbouring countries with semi-functioning governments, such as Tajikistan, too.
It really pisses me off that since WW2 all borders are treated as sacred, even the ones like in Africa that everyone knows are retarded.
2020 was a shitshow when we left, idgaf who was in power they fucked it up
Left all our shit and ran, not how you things >let’s enjoy all the liveleak clips of civilians getting fucked by all of the armaments we left the taliban
It wasn't, it was one of the most successful and least costly wars in human history, more US soldiers died from natural causes than from enemy fire while the US was in Afghanistan
Trump fucked up the negotiations with the Taluban and Biden just pulled the bandaid off, it was all political since we didn't want to actually own or run the country >which was a huge mistake, Afghanistan is literally in the center of the world and rich with untapped resources >not colonize the place and make it a middle eastern Puerto Rico
Crying shamr
We could have stayed another 20 years doing the same shit over and over to no purpose. It needed to be done, Trump started the process but didn't have the balls to finish the job, and Sleepy Joe did. And that is exactly what happened.
>Trump started the process but didn't have the balls to finish the job, and Sleepy Joe did. And that is exactly what happened
Trump thought he would still be president, so it's not like he passed it off to Biden. He negotiated the pullout date to be in his second term.
>He negotiated the pullout date to be in his second term.
no, he queered the negotiations by not following through and the Taliban took it as a green light to mobilize. the administration dropped contact in 2019 and never came back to the table
par for the course-like the china trade war or medicare drug prices, excellent idea, dogshit execution, the man can't finish a sandwich to save his life let alone a foreign policy objective
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
He was following through on his side. Date was set, prisoners were released, etc. He dropped contact at the end of 2019 because guess what? He left office. Taliban started mobilizing when Biden pushed back the withdrawal. Are you suffering from dementia or are you the biden shill that keeps shitting up every thread tangentially related to the orange man?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>the end of 2019 because guess what? He left office.
Outsiders really need to do some reading before commenting about US election cycles
Afghan's had no interest in the puppet government the West propped up. It was a shitty corrupt one and it's no surprise it instantly collapsed once it was on its own.
Just never occupy. Go in, kill everyone you can, leave.
In fact, would be better to drop an atomic bomb on the Taliban and that’s it. Anyone who complains gets one too. These retards are permitted to live by our magnanimity and it’s fucking pathetic. Kill them all if they even lay a finger on an American. Nation building is a sin. We should be destroying and letting them cry over the ashes so they learn their lesson. That’s it. Anything else is treason, to me.
I would "crop-dust" every square inch of the country with agent orange then wait about a decade or two whilst guarding the boarders before establishing the first human settlements.
Because our generals intentionally ignore art of fighting insurgencies. From the natives to the mexicans to philippinos we had literal centuries of victories fighting irregulars - you just had to wipe them out and/or move them somewhere else and replace them with your own people. Thats always been understood, but fighting low intensity forever wars on the other side of the world where you barely deal with any problems is steady profit.
>How did afghanistan 2001-2020 turn into such a shit show?
Hearts and minds approach does not work if you don't understand, or even try to understand the local culture or population structure and just try to enforce things from the top down.
Militarily it was successful campaign, except maybe the final withdraw that was more of a political than actual military decision. Politically it was a fuckup from the beginning and got just worse over time.
it was utterly incompatible with western values and no one wanted to admit it, they fucked little boys and when the US tried to stop it were stonewalled and told it was a local issue, they had an inability to acknowledge or reward merit but just went to default nepotism and they had generally no desire to form a coherent nation.
>fight war for the right of islamic women to wear miniskirts >wtf why are there rebels!?
USA assumed people would want their system and way of life but really afghanistan needs 1-2 million soldiers on the ground and ruthless killing to work and even then its very hard to govern whatever state you leave behind
Best thing for afghanistan is to just cooperate with whoever holds it and apply diplomatic pressure to get them to comply
The US tried to bring western values and beliefs to a country where they don't believe in toilets. Honestly it was a huge waste in tax payer $ and time. But look on the bright side though, the military got a lot of time to develop cool shit and weapons.
pursue the fucks into Pakistan and dare Musharraf to fucking do something about it instead of letting them run back and forth over the border for the better part of two fucking decades
>invade country that has no real beef with you >give them every reason to hate you for the next 30 generations >think that sitting around on mountain tops was magically going to win the war because Americlaps were too used to playing battlefield
I would simply not invade the country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and win by not being retarded
>nothing to do with 9/11
They housed al-Qaeda members that were responsible. They were guilty by association and the taliban should have given osama when they had the chance.
>How did afghanistan 2001-2020 turn into such a shit show?
It's too complicated to explain in the 2000 character post limit but the TL:DR is that Afghanistan is just impossible to hold onto. Fall of Saigon-type shit was inevitable and it was just a matter of how much time, money, and lives you wanted to spend trying to make it work.
>How would you do it differently?
Not get involved in the first place.
not go there in the first place. Crushing insurgencies, especially dedicated and experienced ones without a huge tech gap is near impossible without genocide/ethnic cleansing followed by subsequently settling your own people or long term police state tactics, neither of which would be tolerated on the world stage. hell the US struggled with the western Indians.
the mistake was trying to prop up a fake government. if the us went in there to just fuck up al-qaeda and hunt down osama, and not pretend they were there to set up a democracy, it wouldn't have been considered a failure. if they did want to prop up an allied government, they should have done what they did through most of the cold war and just put some autocrat in control instead of trying to force democracy on a completely incompatible culture and religion.
I would not get involved in regime building in the Middle East. Afghanistan in particular is cursed earth and basically impossible to conquer without genociding the local population or something. Even in that case it would remain a giant open wound for whoever took it over. Going in there and killing Bin Laden and some terrorists is fine because we're massively technologically superior to them, staying until the Afghans achieve democratic self-governance or whatever is retarded. War is easy, peace is hard.
no actual goals
its was just a big kid throwing a tantrum and then making excuses for that tantrum and then throwing another tantrum for being called out for their first tantrum
america got rocked by 9/11
so they went and kicked down a bunch of sand castles to feel like the big guy again
the whole nation building shit is mega cope
the invasion was utterly worthless and aimless from the start
they said they were doing it to destroy al qaeda but those same arab countries willingly gave up the positions and info on them and agreed to hand over everyone they found to avoid being invaded and america said no
america didnt want to kill osama or al qaeda
they wanted the desert to be stained red with arab blood
they wanted to kill people and blow shit up
and they got it
and after 10-15 years the support was gone
they killed osama
they killed al qaeda(kind of)
they killed a fucking lot of arabs
they blew up alot of shit
they got to feel like the big dog again
and then they realised they had to get the fuck out
so they did
but because they had no clear goals from the start and they destroyed any semblance of order or arab authority they became the spine of afghanistan
and to leave is fucking messy
i mean you try ripping your own spine out without any mess and continuing to function in the same capacity
and if i were to do it well i would have a simple, clear goal and go do it and get the fuck out, in and out.
leave the government alone
dont do nation building shit
go get osama and his friends
rip them out of the country and kill them
simple
easy
clean
we knew from the start he wasnt hiding in fucking caves and mountains and shit
all of that was total bullshit
oh an no setting up strongholds or air bases or camps or anything
no american military infrastructure because it isnt actually needed for the goal of killing osama
Any bio weapon options for insurgencies? Covid got everyone less mobile, and indoors. Maybe something a little stronger and more localized could have softened the situation up?
>Any bio weapon options for insurgencies?
Yes and no. On the one hand if you can get them and use them in appropriate quantities they're outstanding terror weapons. On the other, good luck creating, handling and dispersing them without killing yourself even with having lots and lots of money, extremely specialized equipment and training - much less controlling the spread. Chemical weapons are hands-down the superior option for insurgencies; a few million dollars and a few skilled chemists can produce a LOT of sarin, dispersion is a trivial technical issue and most of the equipment is just standard lab stuff. Still, that's a lot harder to do since the 9/11 days.
>Covid got everyone less mobile, and indoors. Maybe something a little stronger and more localized could have softened the situation up?
Covid was a fucking meme. Basically a bad flu season that the governments of the world dragged out for three goddamn years.
Better imaging might have helped too. Map out routes, caves, water etc. Would of had to know 911 was coming to git gud, but would have helped. Also God tier nvg and similar since we're wishing
I think they only pulled out due to fentanly becoming so widespread, they don't need the heroin anymore.
When the Taliban were democratically elected opium production plunged by 90%
Now the US has pulled out it's back down to 1996 levels of production.
What I would do differently is to stop facilitating the international drug trade.
As someone that actually went there there were only ever two options. >Objectively define the death of Bin Laden as victory >Genocide the entire country, annex it and replace it with a modern day homestead act project, and extract all minerals as payment for the war knowing full god damn well the rest of the world wouldn’t do shit because they’re pussies anyway
Afghanistan cannot be controlled. It is not a nation. People who call it such are retarded. The Taliban themselves will fall apart due to infighting pretty soon. Their current strategy of law enforcement is essentially to allow local warlords to dictate and abuse at their own discretion. This will inevitably lead to more tribal feuds when Mohammad beheads Mohammads brother Mohammad. All it is going to take is time.
Go in, slap the Talibs around until they agree to not play ball with Al-Qaida anymore and then just fuck off. The nation building effort was absolute folly. Pay them to mess with Iran
Shame there isn't agent orange for caves, but maybe some kind of large scale, and lasting area denial tear gas. Like white phosphorus but non lethal and non scarring
Should have just left when Bin Laden escaped over the boarder. Holding Afghanistan was pointless. Even if we still had business there, which we didn't, the Afghanis mostly don't see themselves as a nation. It's full of tribal farmers and shit. You need a people who believe in a nation if you want to conquer a nation.
Not go there in the first place. If you really wanted you could send a handful of spooks to find some alleged bad guy, write down his address and send a missile his way. It's not like the range of a rusty AK is 11,000 miles.
Well for starters we did almost everything right, the only major faults were tactical ones, not strategic. I think what helped us most was giving the youth of the country purpose and meaning, and drawing on ancient Pashtun values of bravery, independence, and brotherhood. And it was not a mess, we fought the legions of the Deceiver for decades, whilst mostly keeping our religion, culture, political systems, and lifestyles intact.
We hunted down and killed Osama Bin Laden. A victory.
But someone thought we were going to fix Afghanistan.
I imagine if we pulled out completely in 2011, you'd still have the same scenes of people running after planes and whatnot. But we should have regardless.
Carpet bomb Saudi Arabia into dust, cut off all aid to Israel, and sit back in my chair knowing that we never have to get involved in the sandbox again.
If you're not going to conquer, and I mean CONQUER, kill and enslave or drive out the natives, build new cities with colonists from your homeland, that kind of thing, there is only one way you can make war.
Go in, fuck them up for a few months, then leave.
That's it, there are only two kinds of winnable war.
>How did afghanistan 2001-2020 turn into such a shit show? How would you do it differently?
You do this shit with a quick in-and-out, like first gulf war. You don't stay for 20 years as occupying force, that just turns into attrition you can't afford.
Based option is genocide entire population but nobody based enough for that.
Our mistake was believing a bunch of inbred low IQ sand-farming turban-heads were capable of being civilized, when they like nothing more than raping their dozen sex-slave wives and then returning to their cow-shit huts to die of dysentary in.
Some people are unsalvageable. The people in Afghanistan are equivalent to if /PrepHole/ was a country. The few intelligent people in that shit-hole were so desperate to leave the country they were throwing their babies across barbed wire to get the fuck out.
>Y-Y-YOU'RE JUST COPING
Not even close. Same exact thing hapened in Vietnam but I could care less. At least they have a civilization to call their own. Afghanistan is literally just a fucking desolate divider between all the people and countries that matter. Our mistake was thinking we could terraform it into something livable.
I mean it was worse than vietnam lmao
>disaster
It wasn't a disaster when it comes to military operations. Politically/sociologically, it was awful. People don't give a shit and we stopped going after the taliban in 2014. In theory, the Afghan republic after the U.S. stopped their ground operations in Afghanistan was supposed to take up the mantle in destroying the taliban and prevent them from taking territory. It did not bore fruit because of the ineptitude of the Afghan government/military. The U.S. should have forced the Afghan republic to reform rather than doing a laissez faire policy if no getting directly involved in the host governments politics. Aside from that, there was nothing wrong with Afghanistan operationally speaking. It was never an issue with military actions.
>it was worse than Vietnam
Are you trying to be a fucking dumb-nagger, or does it just come naturally?
It's far too long to explain in one thread but I like pic related, it's a pretty good book on the CIA/American intelligence's involvement in Afghanistan from 2001 onwards. The same author has another book called Ghost Wars covering 1980 to 2001 and I'm reading that one now but haven't got through enough of it to give you a review.
excellent, thanks I've been looking for good books on the subject.
No problem anon. If I had more book recommendations on hand I'd give them to you but alas.
Sorry about the other responses in this thread also we have a very persistent sliding/troll group shitting up the board right now and people are a bit twitchy about it.
>also we have a very persistent sliding/troll group shitting up the board right now
Are you sure they actually exist, and it's not the paranoids calling everyone armawarriortardenis that are responsible for the disruption?
Thanks anon, just ordered it
Anyone got an uncensored version of "Jawbreakers"? Apparently, its the best book on CIA run black ops missions in Afghanistan, but its been censored to hell and back and completely unreadable. I wanna find an uncensored copy.
>How would you do it differently?
Shoot you mother in the head, so are never born
How would that change the opium war?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA
SEETHE LITTLE ONE.
SEETHE!
What did Russia lose now?
Exactly. and we did the exact same thing in the exact same place and lost 10x worse lmao.
Are we not allowed to discuss any other topics without Ukrainian or Russian shitting up the thread with their bullshit?
This place is now dominated by Russia hating Redditors from /r/NonCredibleDefense.
There's nothing new to learn from another low effort Afghanistan thread.
I WILL DEFEND RUSSIA FOR THE ASIAN WOMAN BEHIND THEM! DEATH TO THE WHITE WHORES!
Do Russians just live rent free in your head?
>invade Afghanistan
>nuke France
>leave Afghanistan
Pretty simple
>they let OBL go at Tora Bora
Instead of the Northern Alliance I'd have sent in bunker busters. But that would have ended the war real quick, no profit.
that's pretty much what i thought. Shekels..
How long were you there?
why does the west keep trying to spread their gay democracy lmao?
>Democracy bad
Yep, it's a tankie / angry global southerner friend
I'm not a commie you shit bird.
well his second option covers seething shithole dwellers like yourself
The usa is a shithole i'll give you that
unless they're states like idaho, utah, wyoming, new hampshire, or montana. those states are considered to be coolholes
Democracy is shit you. Constitutional Republics with limited voter franchise is the way to go.
Doesn't matter which government style you have. There's always a way for it to be infiltrated and subverted.
I wouldn't do anything different.
They decided to fuck around and waste our money/time so now they get rolled over and massacred. At no point in time are middle eastern peoples our "allies"
t. Veteran of there
The afghans genuinely don't give a shit. The average /k/ fag will say lol fuck ny or ca but it still doesn't compare to how little of a fuck was and is given by the urban, rural, and tribal afghans. Everyone besides the special forces that joined the ANA were there to collect a paycheck. Unironically a war where the pencil pushes/Guys in the back were doing the heavy lifting and we should've listened to them when they were finding sketchy shit like the whole ghost soldiers things just so high ranking brass or other afghan officials can get extra gibs.
>Fix
Either stop giving a shit the second they weren't going full motard and leave or go full British but with better logistics. You don't turn an atomized islamic country into a united western liberal democracy/republic without basically commiting a genocide to remove islamo-whatever the fuck ideology they have.
Instead of enforcing or policing, I would make it clear to everyone that all civilians are insurgents, all females are fair game and please don't post your footage online unless it's behind some paywall gore site
This is a war on terror, not a state of America!
also, the absolute state... no wonder we lost lmao
>spends his time making shit-threads on /k/
this is why you brown turd worlders are always frustrated and poor
Shalom
mindbroken
>turn into
It started as a shitshow, war is an extension of politics and you need a clear political goal to win any war.
Clap AQ and leave. There was no point in staying, especially since Iraq was going on
Because the US government is now ruled by israeli progressives, whether formally the GOP or Dems are in charge.
You can't win a war anymore like you could in 1945 because you're fundamentally a different country today.
>/misc/ screenshot of a larper using VPN
>screeching about reddit out of nowhere
Anon, don't compare conventional wars with insurgencies. WW2 was not a insurgency and was won conventionally. We still win wars when it comes to conventional shit, but insurgencies shluld be treated differently as goals can change. In a insurgency, you need a strong host government to not let the entire thing fall. Foreign militaries are merely a bandaid when it comes to security.
>YOU WILL NEVER WIN A WAR, REEEE
>mfw
Coping desert pedophile worshippers.
>How would you do it differently?
Not go there or Iraq to begin with.
For sure not Iraq. Saddam was the only good thing in that whole region and he was a murderer lmao.
Yep, smart play would be high speed low drag guys killing senior Taliban and their Saudi sponsors.
Does anyone have the original video of the guy in the OP image? I remember seeing it years ago but I can't seem to ever find it.
Divide the country up along ethnic lines and then leave. Laugh at Pakistan from afar as they have to deal with an independent Pashtunistan.
This, if possible incorporate various ethnic areas into neighbouring countries with semi-functioning governments, such as Tajikistan, too.
It really pisses me off that since WW2 all borders are treated as sacred, even the ones like in Africa that everyone knows are retarded.
clean it up jannies
2020 was a shitshow when we left, idgaf who was in power they fucked it up
Left all our shit and ran, not how you things
>let’s enjoy all the liveleak clips of civilians getting fucked by all of the armaments we left the taliban
It wasn't, it was one of the most successful and least costly wars in human history, more US soldiers died from natural causes than from enemy fire while the US was in Afghanistan
Trump fucked up the negotiations with the Taluban and Biden just pulled the bandaid off, it was all political since we didn't want to actually own or run the country
>which was a huge mistake, Afghanistan is literally in the center of the world and rich with untapped resources
>not colonize the place and make it a middle eastern Puerto Rico
Crying shamr
>Biden just pulled the bandaid off
Nit what happened, but ok
We could have stayed another 20 years doing the same shit over and over to no purpose. It needed to be done, Trump started the process but didn't have the balls to finish the job, and Sleepy Joe did. And that is exactly what happened.
>Trump started the process but didn't have the balls to finish the job, and Sleepy Joe did. And that is exactly what happened
Trump thought he would still be president, so it's not like he passed it off to Biden. He negotiated the pullout date to be in his second term.
>He negotiated the pullout date to be in his second term.
no, he queered the negotiations by not following through and the Taliban took it as a green light to mobilize. the administration dropped contact in 2019 and never came back to the table
par for the course-like the china trade war or medicare drug prices, excellent idea, dogshit execution, the man can't finish a sandwich to save his life let alone a foreign policy objective
He was following through on his side. Date was set, prisoners were released, etc. He dropped contact at the end of 2019 because guess what? He left office. Taliban started mobilizing when Biden pushed back the withdrawal. Are you suffering from dementia or are you the biden shill that keeps shitting up every thread tangentially related to the orange man?
>the end of 2019 because guess what? He left office.
Outsiders really need to do some reading before commenting about US election cycles
Afghan's had no interest in the puppet government the West propped up. It was a shitty corrupt one and it's no surprise it instantly collapsed once it was on its own.
Just never occupy. Go in, kill everyone you can, leave.
In fact, would be better to drop an atomic bomb on the Taliban and that’s it. Anyone who complains gets one too. These retards are permitted to live by our magnanimity and it’s fucking pathetic. Kill them all if they even lay a finger on an American. Nation building is a sin. We should be destroying and letting them cry over the ashes so they learn their lesson. That’s it. Anything else is treason, to me.
The only way to fix those "people" is with literal centuries of non democratic/apartheid white rule.
I would "crop-dust" every square inch of the country with agent orange then wait about a decade or two whilst guarding the boarders before establishing the first human settlements.
>first human settlements
What?
It's populated by Afghans.
He said HUMAN settlements, homosexual.
Precisely
Because our generals intentionally ignore art of fighting insurgencies. From the natives to the mexicans to philippinos we had literal centuries of victories fighting irregulars - you just had to wipe them out and/or move them somewhere else and replace them with your own people. Thats always been understood, but fighting low intensity forever wars on the other side of the world where you barely deal with any problems is steady profit.
>How did afghanistan 2001-2020 turn into such a shit show?
Hearts and minds approach does not work if you don't understand, or even try to understand the local culture or population structure and just try to enforce things from the top down.
Militarily it was successful campaign, except maybe the final withdraw that was more of a political than actual military decision. Politically it was a fuckup from the beginning and got just worse over time.
it was utterly incompatible with western values and no one wanted to admit it, they fucked little boys and when the US tried to stop it were stonewalled and told it was a local issue, they had an inability to acknowledge or reward merit but just went to default nepotism and they had generally no desire to form a coherent nation.
>fight war for the right of islamic women to wear miniskirts
>wtf why are there rebels!?
USA assumed people would want their system and way of life but really afghanistan needs 1-2 million soldiers on the ground and ruthless killing to work and even then its very hard to govern whatever state you leave behind
Best thing for afghanistan is to just cooperate with whoever holds it and apply diplomatic pressure to get them to comply
I feel like if I was there things would have been different
no nukes. nukes.
The US tried to bring western values and beliefs to a country where they don't believe in toilets. Honestly it was a huge waste in tax payer $ and time. But look on the bright side though, the military got a lot of time to develop cool shit and weapons.
>don't believe in toilets
are they indians?
Might as well be. It's pretty weird to know that a majority of the world still lacks basic plumbing. Makes me happy to be born in a white country.
pursue the fucks into Pakistan and dare Musharraf to fucking do something about it instead of letting them run back and forth over the border for the better part of two fucking decades
>invade country that has no real beef with you
>give them every reason to hate you for the next 30 generations
>think that sitting around on mountain tops was magically going to win the war because Americlaps were too used to playing battlefield
I would simply not invade the country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and win by not being retarded
>nothing to do with 9/11
They housed al-Qaeda members that were responsible. They were guilty by association and the taliban should have given osama when they had the chance.
>Bin Laden family literally owns giant business in Saudi Arabia (our greatest ally)
>I know! It was Afghanistan!
Also don't mention all the joos who didn't show up at work that day, it could become problematic.
There was no defined objective and the populace is largely illiterate and content with living in provincial shit holes.
>How did afghanistan 2001-2020 turn into such a shit show?
It's too complicated to explain in the 2000 character post limit but the TL:DR is that Afghanistan is just impossible to hold onto. Fall of Saigon-type shit was inevitable and it was just a matter of how much time, money, and lives you wanted to spend trying to make it work.
>How would you do it differently?
Not get involved in the first place.
>every mission objective accomplished
>war was extremely cheap all said and done.
only retards don't understand we won.
not go there in the first place. Crushing insurgencies, especially dedicated and experienced ones without a huge tech gap is near impossible without genocide/ethnic cleansing followed by subsequently settling your own people or long term police state tactics, neither of which would be tolerated on the world stage. hell the US struggled with the western Indians.
the mistake was trying to prop up a fake government. if the us went in there to just fuck up al-qaeda and hunt down osama, and not pretend they were there to set up a democracy, it wouldn't have been considered a failure. if they did want to prop up an allied government, they should have done what they did through most of the cold war and just put some autocrat in control instead of trying to force democracy on a completely incompatible culture and religion.
I would not get involved in regime building in the Middle East. Afghanistan in particular is cursed earth and basically impossible to conquer without genociding the local population or something. Even in that case it would remain a giant open wound for whoever took it over. Going in there and killing Bin Laden and some terrorists is fine because we're massively technologically superior to them, staying until the Afghans achieve democratic self-governance or whatever is retarded. War is easy, peace is hard.
no actual goals
its was just a big kid throwing a tantrum and then making excuses for that tantrum and then throwing another tantrum for being called out for their first tantrum
america got rocked by 9/11
so they went and kicked down a bunch of sand castles to feel like the big guy again
the whole nation building shit is mega cope
the invasion was utterly worthless and aimless from the start
they said they were doing it to destroy al qaeda but those same arab countries willingly gave up the positions and info on them and agreed to hand over everyone they found to avoid being invaded and america said no
america didnt want to kill osama or al qaeda
they wanted the desert to be stained red with arab blood
they wanted to kill people and blow shit up
and they got it
and after 10-15 years the support was gone
they killed osama
they killed al qaeda(kind of)
they killed a fucking lot of arabs
they blew up alot of shit
they got to feel like the big dog again
and then they realised they had to get the fuck out
so they did
but because they had no clear goals from the start and they destroyed any semblance of order or arab authority they became the spine of afghanistan
and to leave is fucking messy
i mean you try ripping your own spine out without any mess and continuing to function in the same capacity
and if i were to do it well i would have a simple, clear goal and go do it and get the fuck out, in and out.
leave the government alone
dont do nation building shit
go get osama and his friends
rip them out of the country and kill them
simple
easy
clean
we knew from the start he wasnt hiding in fucking caves and mountains and shit
all of that was total bullshit
oh an no setting up strongholds or air bases or camps or anything
no american military infrastructure because it isnt actually needed for the goal of killing osama
Any bio weapon options for insurgencies? Covid got everyone less mobile, and indoors. Maybe something a little stronger and more localized could have softened the situation up?
>Any bio weapon options for insurgencies?
Yes and no. On the one hand if you can get them and use them in appropriate quantities they're outstanding terror weapons. On the other, good luck creating, handling and dispersing them without killing yourself even with having lots and lots of money, extremely specialized equipment and training - much less controlling the spread. Chemical weapons are hands-down the superior option for insurgencies; a few million dollars and a few skilled chemists can produce a LOT of sarin, dispersion is a trivial technical issue and most of the equipment is just standard lab stuff. Still, that's a lot harder to do since the 9/11 days.
>Covid got everyone less mobile, and indoors. Maybe something a little stronger and more localized could have softened the situation up?
Covid was a fucking meme. Basically a bad flu season that the governments of the world dragged out for three goddamn years.
Timed release, and good protection for actual forces. Use vaccines and regularly change the virus up
You're underestimating how vast of an undertaking that is and how difficult biological warfare is to contain.
Missed our opportunity for k to know for sure
Better imaging might have helped too. Map out routes, caves, water etc. Would of had to know 911 was coming to git gud, but would have helped. Also God tier nvg and similar since we're wishing
I think they only pulled out due to fentanly becoming so widespread, they don't need the heroin anymore.
When the Taliban were democratically elected opium production plunged by 90%
Now the US has pulled out it's back down to 1996 levels of production.
What I would do differently is to stop facilitating the international drug trade.
As someone that actually went there there were only ever two options.
>Objectively define the death of Bin Laden as victory
>Genocide the entire country, annex it and replace it with a modern day homestead act project, and extract all minerals as payment for the war knowing full god damn well the rest of the world wouldn’t do shit because they’re pussies anyway
Afghanistan cannot be controlled. It is not a nation. People who call it such are retarded. The Taliban themselves will fall apart due to infighting pretty soon. Their current strategy of law enforcement is essentially to allow local warlords to dictate and abuse at their own discretion. This will inevitably lead to more tribal feuds when Mohammad beheads Mohammads brother Mohammad. All it is going to take is time.
Go in, slap the Talibs around until they agree to not play ball with Al-Qaida anymore and then just fuck off. The nation building effort was absolute folly. Pay them to mess with Iran
More nerve gas would've been nice tbh.
Shame there isn't agent orange for caves, but maybe some kind of large scale, and lasting area denial tear gas. Like white phosphorus but non lethal and non scarring
Should have just left when Bin Laden escaped over the boarder. Holding Afghanistan was pointless. Even if we still had business there, which we didn't, the Afghanis mostly don't see themselves as a nation. It's full of tribal farmers and shit. You need a people who believe in a nation if you want to conquer a nation.
Not go there in the first place. If you really wanted you could send a handful of spooks to find some alleged bad guy, write down his address and send a missile his way. It's not like the range of a rusty AK is 11,000 miles.
Well for starters we did almost everything right, the only major faults were tactical ones, not strategic. I think what helped us most was giving the youth of the country purpose and meaning, and drawing on ancient Pashtun values of bravery, independence, and brotherhood. And it was not a mess, we fought the legions of the Deceiver for decades, whilst mostly keeping our religion, culture, political systems, and lifestyles intact.
>he says, while Afghan kids fuck around on TikTok
I wouldn't have invaded in the first place.
We hunted down and killed Osama Bin Laden. A victory.
But someone thought we were going to fix Afghanistan.
I imagine if we pulled out completely in 2011, you'd still have the same scenes of people running after planes and whatnot. But we should have regardless.
And since we're recommending books:
This one was published right before ISIS got everyone's attention.
Carpet bomb Saudi Arabia into dust, cut off all aid to Israel, and sit back in my chair knowing that we never have to get involved in the sandbox again.
If you're not going to conquer, and I mean CONQUER, kill and enslave or drive out the natives, build new cities with colonists from your homeland, that kind of thing, there is only one way you can make war.
Go in, fuck them up for a few months, then leave.
That's it, there are only two kinds of winnable war.
So then what did America do to Japan and west Germany in WW2?
>How did afghanistan 2001-2020 turn into such a shit show? How would you do it differently?
You do this shit with a quick in-and-out, like first gulf war. You don't stay for 20 years as occupying force, that just turns into attrition you can't afford.
Based option is genocide entire population but nobody based enough for that.
Our mistake was believing a bunch of inbred low IQ sand-farming turban-heads were capable of being civilized, when they like nothing more than raping their dozen sex-slave wives and then returning to their cow-shit huts to die of dysentary in.
Some people are unsalvageable. The people in Afghanistan are equivalent to if /PrepHole/ was a country. The few intelligent people in that shit-hole were so desperate to leave the country they were throwing their babies across barbed wire to get the fuck out.
>Y-Y-YOU'RE JUST COPING
Not even close. Same exact thing hapened in Vietnam but I could care less. At least they have a civilization to call their own. Afghanistan is literally just a fucking desolate divider between all the people and countries that matter. Our mistake was thinking we could terraform it into something livable.