According to Prigogine Wagner lost 20k KIA, of them 50% contract "elite" Wagner soldiers.

According to Prigogine Wagner lost 20k KIA, of them 50% contract "elite" Wagner soldiers.
Why did USA underestimated Russian losses so much? Only 20k KIA and 80k WIA when Wagner alone had 20k KIA, not counting PMC Veterans, LDPR soldiers, Russian army and VEHDEHVEH that got killed too?

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous
    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous
  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >t. Some random latvian on telegram

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      That's statement of Prigogine, let me guess, he's already declared traitor and pest for saying things that chug doesn't like.
      Btw, this statement is very interesting because we have Mediazona with publicly confirmed deaths.
      For PMCs it's 1.5k and prisoners it's 4k. If we roughly extrapolate those numbers based on Prigogine statements that means Russian real KIA is from 2.5 to 6.6 times higher than known. Or from 57500 to 151800

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        to 151800 KIA Russians
        But that's not that far off from what we assumed. I beleive the general consesus was 50-80k KIA few months ago (March maybe). Also we can easily conclude that it's going to be in th lower part becasue Wagner was carrying the bulk proportion of casualities.
        So to me it all lines up.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          They never had that many. They are also sent with ruaf regulars so we have no idea.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Latvians are the most trustworthy individuals out there

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Watch your tongue. Latvians are renowned for their honesty and service of the USSR.

        kek

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Watch your tongue. Latvians are renowned for their honesty and service of the USSR.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      a former russian MP if that matters

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I refuse to believe only 20% of the prisoners recruited died.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      a lot of little russian chicken nuggies hopping around
      a great way to disarm criminals and kick the legs out under crime

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        but they were sitting in prison before getting sent to bakhmut, how could they have been committing crimes?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        but they were sitting in prison before getting sent to bakhmut, how could they have been committing crimes?

        The goal was to never "clear out the prisons" (Putin doesn't care). They banned Wagner from prison recruitments not on humanitarian grounds, but because the tactics didn't work. Endless trickle suicide attacks were just a drain on resources with no benefit. A few tens of thousand of prisoner deaths versus the millions in Russian prisons. It's a drop in the bucket.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >They banned Wagner from prison recruitments not on humanitarian grounds, but because the tactics didn't work.
          Nah. It's because Shoigu didn't like Wagner crossing his path. Russian MoD literally copied Wagner. They made special brigade Shtorm stuffed by ex prisoners (under promise of pardon and even better version than Wagner, they would have all their criminal history purged from government databases so no penalties after for employment). Russian MoD ni drafts prisoners. Comptetion for the source.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      He didn't include the field executions in that figure.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/YZdkvNZ.jpg

        According to Prigogine Wagner lost 20k KIA, of them 50% contract "elite" Wagner soldiers.
        Why did USA underestimated Russian losses so much? Only 20k KIA and 80k WIA when Wagner alone had 20k KIA, not counting PMC Veterans, LDPR soldiers, Russian army and VEHDEHVEH that got killed too?

        Reminder, Priggy is minimizing. If he's saying 50% of their elite contract soldiers are dead that's insanely dire and basically means the end of the organization. The truth is likely WAY worse.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          There's a physical limit to how many elite Wagner units could be dead considering they have a whole other theatre in Africa. 50% is probably approaching that limit. Prigo also needs people to know how battered Wagner is in order to justify getting concessions for what he regards as extraordinary service.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        IF YOU WILL NOT SERVE IN COMBAT THEN YOU WILL SERVE ON THE FIRING LINE

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >according to Prigogine
    100% truth.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I don't have the leak on hand but this matches the rough troops numbers the US claimed the Russians had attacking Bakhmut, with around 16k Ukrainians defending it.

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Official politically acceptable reduced number is 20 k dead for a single hamlet
    Oh boy

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Lose at least 60k soldiers KIA/WIA taking a city that had a prewar pop of 70k
    They are going to need to draft 20 million soldiers.

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    What's the killed-to-wounded ratio? It's probably low considering Wagner leaves its wounded and prohibits retreats, but even then it's likely the organization lost 2/3rds of its strength overcoming the first line of Ukrainian defenses. How these people are ever supposed to take Slovyansk and Kramatorsk is beyond me

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Genral consesus is something like 1:2(3) for Russia and 1:5 for Ukraine.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      They're not. Wagner is completely done and will not be a major factor in the war from here on out. If this is like a video game, the Wagner "boss fight" is over. Overall Russians seem exhausted and unable to mount an offense anywhere. Defense sure.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >video game analogy
        lmao, and the avengers will retake Artyomovsk tomorrow

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          One of the major armies is just going to frick off for the rest of the war - that's a big deal. Very likely they could do similar damage to any of the break-away separtist miliita, which likely aren't that hto either.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Do you actually believe that lmao? Russia has barely any troops in the Ukraine and can easily replace any and all alleged Wagner losses.
            Prigozhin is playing you like a fiddle btw.
            >We take too severe casualties!
            >Half of Artyomovsk liberated next day.
            >We have no shells!
            >Ukraine pushed into a killing box, Wagner killing thousands in a fish-in-a-barrel situation
            >We will withdraw tomorrow!
            >Rest of Artyomovsk liberated next day.
            >We will withdraw next week!
            >This time they surely mean it

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >fish-in-a-barrel situation
              How easy is it to shoot fish in a barrel when the barrel is hundreds of concrete buildings, many with basements?

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >Russia has barely any troops in the Ukraine and can easily replace any and all alleged Wagner losses.
              these takes were designed in a lab to be as bad as possible. the point was not to win an argument, but to spew such embarrassing bile that no cogent discussion could even be had. it's like having a tantrum over not getting your favorite funko pop in the toy aisle and shitting yourself when reality sets in.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >Artyomovsk
              ?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Russia changed Bakhmut's name for a few decades and they're still butthurt Ukraine changed it back after leaving them.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >Artyomovsk
              No such thing. Try again using non made up places.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              that was painful to read, hard to believe brain fried vatniks like you are still functioning

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >t.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous
          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            What's wrong with this? They need colored pencils and the box has some pictures on it so what?

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              The Avengers bullshit is beyond played out and Russian shills stopped using it when the picture of Russian officers using the freaking Avenger brand school supplies made it embarrassing to bring Marvel up.
              Basically, Russian bots got their software updated, Western useful idiots haven't. I'm still seeing dumb shills gloating about the imminent capture of Odessa to this fricking day.

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I doubt anyone has any idea how many soldiers Russia has lost.

    You can't count on Ukraine's numbers because soldiers overestimating the strength of their opponents and how many they killed is endemic throughout history and there is no good way to revise figures coming back from the front except for a careful count of the battlefield after the fact, if you control it and can spare the resources.

    Aside from Ukraine's figures, which the general staff probably revises down from front line reports due to the afformentioned tendency, the US probably also revised Ukraine's figures down even more to account for the fact that combatants almost universally inflate these figures. But this double revision might overshoot.

    The US also uses IMINT to check for losses but this is far less reliable in dense urban areas, areas with tree cover, and when the force being counted is sending men in on foot. Counting vehicle losses is far easier, but in this case the numerical bulk attacked on foot, which becomes impossible to count based on sat images.

    The other US source would be leaks from Russia, mostly SIGINT interceptions since that has always been the US's strong suit. The problem here is Russia's endemic corruption and the tendency to cover up losses internally. You might generally put a lot of stock in your enemies' internal reports of losses, but in this case these are probably drastically undercounted due to both intentional obfuscation and incompetent records keeping.

    Russia has already had trials over commanders keeping BTGs way under strength at the outset of the war, with Afghan style ghost soldiers on payroll and missing vehicles. Russia likely has no solid idea how many men it even invaded with to great precision, let alone how ma
    many have been lost since. They have 5 fricking armies, it is insane. LPR, DNR, Chechens, Wagner, and the actual military, not to mention a motley of foreign fighters. It's a total clusterfrick.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Ukraine has a policy of requesting they photograph all dead vehicles and corpses and send them in for verification. They generally have a good consensus of how many Russians they are slaughtering. Ukraine has two totals that they use, one is basically self reported, you see this on the one with over 1,000,000 Russian casualties, and the other which is more controlled with video or photographic evidence which is anywhere from 170,000 to 400,000.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Source? Not doubting I just want to know more

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          You can watch some of their videos ad you can watch them doing it, they basically either headcam, drone or use their phone to take pictures. They get monetary incentive to do it.

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Double the numbers and it might be the truth. That Prig is revealing devestating numbers like this reveals the real truth is WAY worse.

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >PMCs

    Mercenaries on payroll

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Would you like prison or war and a chance at freedom, to commit more crimes?

      If you ask "would you like to leave the prison or stay in the prison" the answer is probably gonna be "get me out of this gulag please sir"

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Wasn't there a statistic that was like "if 4% of your troops get killed, your combat effectiveness goes down by 50%; if 10% get killed, you basically become combat ineffective"?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Statistics are like shoes, they don't fit every foot. In a normal unit like a regiment or a division you have a significant percentage of total forces dedicated to non-combat tasks like food, transport, comms, medical etc leaving the remainder capable of offensive action. In normal combat the latter takes most of the casualties. With Wagner being Wagner we don't really know if they have any actual non-combat personnel. Medical seems abysmal and logistics seems taken care of mainly by the regular army. So if most of them are combat forces they can keep on fighting even with massive losses. In theory.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I think that statistic was talking about combat personnel only, and the point was that psychologically they won't be able to fight effectively with that many losses. Basically, the effect of losses is far higher than the % number would indicate

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Mobiks and conscripts aren't particularly combat effective even when at 100% though, so that rule of thumb doesn't apply to them.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah. It was talking about the short-term effects of dumb artillery mass bombardment. I.e., if you've taken enough bombardment to kill x% of your guys the rest are stunned or leaking blood from their ears so for the rest of the attack (about 15 minutes) their effectiveness will have dropped y%.

      It's not about overall casualties or periods of time longer than about an hour.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I see, thanks

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >20k KIA, of them 50% contrac
    He said 20% of 50k.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      add another 50% and you might get close to the truth
      In military terms even the claimed numbers are a severe blunder that would end in the disbanding of the unit

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    So what's the real number?

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