>Ablative armor that has to be slowly chipped away piece by piece and is powerful enough to shrug off an Abram's cannon with no damage

>Ablative armor that has to be slowly chipped away piece by piece and is powerful enough to shrug off an Abram's cannon with no damage
>Myomer muscle legs that allow it to move at up to 80 mph
>Jump jets that let it temporarily fly
>Micro missiles that allow a single missile tube to hold dozens of missiles per tube
>360 degree vision connected to a hyper-aware neurohelmet
>Incredibly powerful ECM
>So maneuverable and deftly tuned to their users that you can perform a handstand in the ones that have hands
>Have instakill death lasers that can swat aircraft out of the sky like mosquitos
>Can fight in the vacuum of space or the bottom of the ocean.
>Basically the gods of the battlefield
Realistically how are you supposed to fight one of these with a conventional force?

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    you can't
    luckily they're moronic and impossible so we never have to worry about that

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you applied those to conventional form factors they would perform better assuming you didn't have the asspull things BT has to make tanks and such worse.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      APS turns verticality into a non-factor, to be fair many mechs aren't well designed to optimize bipedalism and are still larger than they should be but once the economic and technical difference between building legs and tracks becomes the same it won't matter much, I will be like french wheeled tanks.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I mean, I'll give Battletech this, it's impressive the amount of lore justifications they have for why conventionals suck.
      >Myomer can't be used in conventionals so they're pretty slow in comparison, and can't be used in rough terrain
      >Myomer also conveniently takes care of the maintainence issues associated with real life mechs
      >Ablative armor means that the real-life meta of 'don't be seen and destroy something in one-shot' doesn't apply, because you apply chip damage to vehicles and mechs, and thus battles are basically slugging matches between two land-battleships
      >Neurohelmets only work with bipedal vehicles and...aircraft, for some reason. And it doesn't work well with four-legs either, so bipedal robots end up being the best.
      >Space travel is extremely limited and expensive so you want to bring as few people as possible, and since mechs have a crew of one, they're very manpower efficient
      >Artificial intelligence breaks when you try to bring it across space using FTL and nobody knows why or knows how to stop that from happening
      >The Ares Convention means that trying to find any better way of waging warfare is basically illegal and everybody will jump on you and obliterate you if you do
      >90% of planets are backwards rural backwaters and spaceship building capacity is mostly dead because a bunch of moronic monarchists decided to nuke each other in a WW1 style family clusterfrick

      The only part that doesn't have much logic behind it imo is the United States deciding to join the setting equivalent of the European Union and then becoming okay with monarchism. I don't care if the monarch's dynasty came from America, I don't care how much American football and cheeseburgers the new monarchical dynasty had, there is no way that's happening.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >The only part that doesn't have much logic behind it
        is everything you listed

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I didn't say it was realistic. I just said there was a good amount of reasoning behind it.

          Like, take the AI problem for example. There is absolutely zero reason for AI to break when you take it across FTL. But the fact that it does shows that the devs knew that people would be asking about it, so they implemented that solution.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No wonder battletech is such soulless shite.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The downside to having such a high amount of lore justifications is that the game IS admittedly very...samey.

          If you don't love monarchism and bipedal robots, you probably will find the setting pretty boring.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's anything but soulless
          It's stupid but pure sovl

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          you can't
          luckily they're moronic and impossible so we never have to worry about that

          If you applied those to conventional form factors they would perform better assuming you didn't have the asspull things BT has to make tanks and such worse.

          https://i.imgur.com/2NwIrU5.png

          good morning i hate mechs

          Reminder Mechhaters have nogun, noballs, and no rights.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Reminder Mechhaters have nogun, noballs, and no rights.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You posted a picture of the people who invented the
              >ERM ACKTUALEE MECH BAD???????
              meme

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >The only part that doesn't have much logic behind it
        >myomer is so great for whatever reason but no one ever figured out how to turn linear motion into rotation so it can run a tank, car, propeller, rotary wing, etc
        >neurohelmets limited because thinking in tune with a whole ass mech is easier than thinking "go" in a tank
        >AI breaks in FTL with no explanation as if an AI isn't just a physical object at the end of the day. it must have a soul or something, guess humans don't
        honestly none of this shit makes sense. maybe they've layered on more justifications than what's presented but i would prefer either admitting mechs are mechs because it's cool, or introducing one physics breaking mechanic that ties everything in

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >but i would prefer either admitting mechs are mechs because it's cool
          Except that they do this and that's obvious.

          It's okay to have lore excuses for things.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          is so great for whatever reason but no one ever figured out how to turn linear motion into rotation so it can run a tank, car, propeller, rotary wing, etc
          The justification for this is twofold.

          1) The way that myomer works means that the longer it is, the stronger it is, so a short bit of myomer powering a driveshaft is going to be inherently much weaker than a long piece of myomer powering an entire limb.

          2) Myomer is very 'twitchy' kind of like real muscles, so anything that is delicate is prone to breaking with it.

          >neurohelmets limited because thinking in tune with a whole ass mech is easier than thinking "go" in a tank
          The way they justified this was that the human mind NEEDS to think in terms of four limbs, since its 'body' is the vehicle itself. Since the human mind cannot comprehend having wheels, neurohelmets don't work for that purpose.

          >AI breaks in FTL with no explanation as if an AI isn't just a physical object at the end of the day. it must have a soul or something, guess humans don't
          The closest thing to an explanation we have is that AI doesn't know what FTL is, so when it comes out on the other side, it gets confused about its location, and assumes its under attack, so it proceeds to friendly fire everyone around it.

          Now, granted, the middle explanation means that their neurohelmets are in some ways less advanced than the shit we already have IRL, and the latter means that their AI is definitely less advanced than my iPhone GPS, but there you have it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            From what I remember, their electronics are completely different; instead of transistors, they use something that has 3 states, but never scaled the way that transistors did. The result is something that has really good fuzzy logic (to the extent that targeting computers can identify not just the model of a mech, but its variant), but is only as powerful as, say, a 386 (BT technology was basically "future '80s"). Slower computational power slowed down the advance of technology over the centuries compared to our last 40 years, even before the Succession Wars and Comstar's wars against humanity.

            It's a handwave, of course; it all is, because the central conceit was "giant stompy robots", with combat ranges shortened to allow frequent melee and for maps to fit on a dining room table, and a backstory that was looted directly from history (the major factions, Comstar as the not-Vatican, the Thirty Years' War, the Hundred Years' War, the Mongol invasions, the Wars of the Roses, etc.). And yet, somehow, the rules, the gameplay, and the setting all meshed together into something wonderful.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Depends on how you play. There are high-end vehicles that can wreck most 'mechs, but they tend to cost as much as a 'mech. And if you play with the optional artillery rules, well... well-aimed artillery can wreck anything. There are even instances in the lore where artillery wipes out entire regiments. And without the Ares Conventions, a single warship can glass every exposed city on an entire planet in a month or two. It's in-lore culture, more than technology, that makes 'mechs supreme, and honest players should recognize that.

              >in-lore culture

              YOU DARE REFUSE MY BATCHALL???

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Since the human mind cannot comprehend having wheels, neurohelmets don't work for that purpose.
            This would also depend on the era too since in the lower tech eras the most that helmet is doing is feeding inner ear data to the mechs computer so the legs can work. Balance isn't as needed for a tank for obvious reasons and this would still cause issues for four legged mechs since our sense of balance isn't designed for it.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The inner ear neurohelmet overrides the mech's default balance. Mechs can walk and avoid obstacles on autopilot without neurohelmet. The neurohelmet allows advanced balancing to shift weight earlier for better coordinated movement.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The only part that doesn't have much logic behind it
            >myomer is so great for whatever reason but no one ever figured out how to turn linear motion into rotation so it can run a tank, car, propeller, rotary wing, etc
            >neurohelmets limited because thinking in tune with a whole ass mech is easier than thinking "go" in a tank
            >AI breaks in FTL with no explanation as if an AI isn't just a physical object at the end of the day. it must have a soul or something, guess humans don't
            honestly none of this shit makes sense. maybe they've layered on more justifications than what's presented but i would prefer either admitting mechs are mechs because it's cool, or introducing one physics breaking mechanic that ties everything in

            You don't need to use myomer when you can use electric or a driveshaft. The mech legs are the motive part of the vehicle like tracks/wheels. Each leg (structure+myomer actuators) is like 20% of the structural mass of the mech. That's 40% of basic weight dedicated to the equivalent of wheels or tracks.

            The difference is in tabletop vehicles wheels and tracks are damaged via crit and are not armor locations. To be consistent with mechs the motive would need to be a separate section with its own armor and structure. Vees are stronger by not having their motive as a separate section. Exception is helicopters which have the turret section renamed to rotor.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >so a short bit of myomer powering a driveshaft

            So alter the way it is used, for example a long piece can power a driveshaft if it is woven into a flexible coupling. Plot armor is lame.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The problem with that is that myomer is very 'twitchy' so it would just end up breaking apart the internals of the tank.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If you can make a leg not snap you can use it with a more traditional mechanical force. If you can't predict how it will move given power input it isn't useful in any case.
                Myomer would work better with crankshafts than limbs if not for writer handwaving.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >If you can make a leg not snap you can use it with a more traditional mechanical force. If you can't predict how it will move given power input it isn't useful in any case.
                >Myomer would work better with crankshafts than limbs if not for writer handwaving.
                Electric motors already do rotating forces with 90% efficiency. However electric motors favor low torque and high RPM.
                Why not just gear down your high RPM electric motors for giant robot limbs? As soon as you reach reduction levels needed gearing becomes fragile and hates being back driven. Actuators being capable of being back driven are critical for a walking robot, legs must be capable of absorbing the shock from every step and jump, so every actuator must be able to function as a shock absorber when being back driven. Stretchy myomers presumably fulfill this niche offering high torque per mass/volume and able to survive forcibly being back driven by violent impacts. Theoretically myomers could be very inefficient ~50% and still be the best option for mechs.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There is also societal, logistical and cultural aspect to the mechs in BattleTech. We need to remember that the entire setting is about humanity fricking up.

            >Pseudo Feudalism
            Factions in BattleTech are essentially feudal and backstabbing is common. So it's arguably better to field handful of mechs, each one piloted by a trusted guy, that a mass of tanks, where every tank have a crew.

            >Culture
            Mechs were basically developed as last hurrah of failing leader of Star league. Their initial success was due to them being very advanced and having shock value. That in turn lead to other nation jumping on the bandwagon. No one stopped to reconsider if it's a good investment. Tabletop kinda reflects that. 50-milion C-bill mech can't stand to 50 million C-bills in combined arms.

            >Logistics
            Invading other planets is a costly endeavor if you want to swarm a planet you need a lot of dropships and usually you have a limited amount so you want to field elite multipurpose units like mechs.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              There's also the fact that, IIRC, life support is the most expensive part of space travel which makes ferrying around armored units dependent on crews way less attractive (it also justifies the expense of stuff like BA, which lets you squeeze way more value out of a handful of men instead of carting around loads of riflemen or whatever). So you wind up seeing armored vehicles more often relegated to militia units and defensive garrisons because the static deployment means the economics shake out in their favor, and it doesn't matter if they're not as mobile since you're basically using them as an elastic turret network/ambush force.

              Mech jockies style on armored forces pretty often but the simple truth is that the SRM carrier you didn't see can and will hurt you.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Too many people only played the video games and don't realize your average tank is on par with your average mech in terms of firepower.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Life support isn't necessarily *expensive*, per se, but it is *heavy*. Steerageway quarters--the kind you cram infantry into--start at 5 tons a head. Decent officers' quarters? Double that. Then, unless you're Capellan, you need sufficient life boats or escape pods, which works out to roughly 1 ton per person. And while mechs and fighters generally account for one pilot plus one tech or astech (on average), vehicles have a silly personnel rule that uses 1 crew per 15 tons of vehicle. That's up to 7 people.

                Oh, and that's before you add in food, water, and other consumables, or pay for all of the extra salaries, or add in the things that the BT rules don't account for, like larger common areas and galleys in ships. And then, you have to figure in transit times; 30LY per week max, plus 1 week or so in-system on each end. RCTs wind up making relatively little sense unless you intend to garrison a planet (where you have to have sheer numbers to police the populace and guard all your stuff).

                Ironically, the Clans have the most "efficient" force, with smaller manpower pools thanks to limited use of vehicles and most infantry being dozens of Elementals rather than hundreds or thousands of footsloggers. Fortunately for the IS, their centuries of dueling led them to overspecialize towards that and they forgot how to do large-scale logistics for the first few decades of the Invasion.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Fortunately for the IS, their centuries of dueling led them to overspecialize towards that and they forgot how to do large-scale logistics for the first few decades of the Invasion.
                The invasion lasted 3 years

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Ghost Bear Dominion still exists
                The Invaion is ongoing.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Do you have something against half japanese, half nordic Amazon girls?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, they're not full Japanese

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What sort of draconis mech woul best represent Satsuki from Kill la Kill?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I have not seen that show. What is this character like?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There was a ceasefire after three years, the war never actually ended.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Since the human mind cannot comprehend having wheels
            Absolute nonsense of course.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The US settled most of the planets close to Terra, which, after a dictator launched a coup, would later become the core parts of the Terran Hegemony. These were some of the richest worlds of the Inner Sphere, and they were the ones fought over the hardest both during the Civil War and the Succession Wars, leading to many of them being wiped out, and the rest divvied up by the Great Houses.

        That said, no BT nation can trace its ancestry directly to a modern nation. Rather, they have adapted cultures, some more loosely than others. Remember, the most honorobu samurai to ever live had a 'fro and fought alongside warriors from a devout muslim group of worlds. Meanwhile, some of their greatest enemies had taken in elements of Scottish or Germanic culture (but only elements). Humanity in the future was still bigoted, but over different things than they are today.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The US settled most of the planets close to Terra, which, after a dictator launched a coup, would later become the core parts of the Terran Hegemony.
          It's the parts that lead up to the formation of the Terran Alliance itself that make the least sense.

          NATO defeats the USSR after the USSR has a civil war. Okay, makes sense. Then NATO....decides to unify into a single country. You would think without a unifying enemy they would dissolve but nope, the opposite happens. They somehow manage to pressure the USA into joining this new alliance, an alliance which gradually takes away their military autonomy as well it should be mentioned. Then this alliance somehow manages to unify the entire world under it with...remarkably little resistance. They just annex Asia like it's an afterthought without even a war being waged.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, that whole part was added later, and it always felt like too much of a handwave and a dodge (because nobody wanted to deal with modern national or international politics--that's part of the reason for inventing entirely new factions in the first place).

            What makes more sense to me is the way that local colonial politics became more important to most of humanity than whatever was going on with the old Terran nations. And then you get McKenna's coup, which is somewhat believable in the face of runaway bureaucracies that continue to fail to get anything done; it's certainly not without historical precedent. Once that happens, it's not hard to see whatever's left of national governments becoming small potatoes; you could argue that they still existed, but McKenna could impose taxes on them if he liked because he had all the battleships, and wasn't abusing the populace to the point where the common man would try to rebel.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Some time ago I ran a poll at some thirdie forums asking if they would have agreed their countries to join US as additional states, believe it or not you got two digits "yes" and in one instance a majority, most thirdies who haven't been heavily indoctrinated actually know NATO countries are better and wished their own governments were at least as good as them, it's just like most human beings they don't like negative comparisons, why do you think they always have to resort to moral issues such as patriotism, sexuality and gender behaviour, some superfluos cultural achievement such as food or being resourceful in the face of hardship? It's the only points where they feel like they have a fighting chance in a discussion. So yeah, provided you can convince and show them they are going to get better management and being willing to trample all dissidents without feeling bad about it you could unify most of Earth.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        AFAIK there is no justification as to why myomer can't be used to turn a crankshaft which would obviously be better than legs. It's just "You just can't OK?"

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ok, so 90% of the justification is that no one bothered to implement all the advances made for mech into conventionals.
        The only thing in that list that makes some kind of sense is terrain.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          If you dug into the construction rules you would find the primary difference is heatsink. Vees are default unsealed which means they receive zero heat from missiles and autocannons but must pay full heatsink cost for lasers.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Well, when you dig into the lore you find out that every time they try to implement those technology upgrades into conventional vehicles, it fails.

          For example, they tried to put myomer into regular tank, but it went berserk and smashed apart the internal parts of the tank.

          Then they tried to put a neurohemal on a tank crew member, but it drove him insane.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Myomer can't be used in conventionals so they're pretty slow in comparison, and can't be used in rough terrain

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Myomer isn't used as part of the power plant, it's a replacement for large electric motors. A mech with an ICE has all the drawbacks that a tank with one does but they still use myomer.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >He doesn't understand the point of using a long leg-like "motor" to drive spinning shit like rotors and final drives to reap the advantages

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              A leg-powered tank is just a mech on a bicycle.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I know what you mean, but for whatever reason myomer isn't suitable for smaller scale applications like turning cranks and lends itself better to gross motor functions in larger machines. Or at least not any more suitable than normal electric motors.

              Of course the Davions and Wobbies undermine this later by developing myomer-based prosthetic limbs but that's the explanation given in the setting.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Crankshafts are unknvwn technology to mechgays.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nice Hammer's Slammers art. Next you'll be telling me the Texians are invading the Inner Sphere.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ATGM spam. One of them will get through

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Assuming the mech doesn't just dodge the missiles.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's a multiton physical object with a pilot. It's not dodging a missile Timmy.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You would think so, but they're surprisingly agile.

          https://i.imgur.com/2NwIrU5.png

          good morning i hate mechs

          >A tank
          Sadly, tanks are the technicals of the Battletech universe. Cheap shitboxes that are only used by military forces too poor to afford mechs.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I don't care how agile it is Timmy it's a frickin missile coming in at hundreds of miles an hour and following that sun bright heat signature. A tv guided missile maybe, something like a jav not happening.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Demolishers are technicals
            lol no

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Tbf, all tanks are technicals. They're the thing you use when you're a poor country that can't afford a mech. They're not good and are usually regarded more as annoyances than a real threat, but they are cheap. In any given major battle usually only about 20% of the ground vehicles will be conventional vehicles (usually consisting of the local planetary garrison) and the rest will be mechs.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Are you moronic? Tanks get ignored a lot in favor of mechs because it's a mech game but tanks are constantly in the background outnumbering mechs.

                There's also tanks that can perform very well against mechs. Love me manticore.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >but tanks are constantly in the background outnumbering mechs.
                Yes but also no.

                The problem with tanks is twofold:
                >They're more expensive to transport than mechs
                >They're less individually effective than mechs
                The end result is, that for any battle that requires that you bring forces to reinforce the defenders or attackers, you're only going to be bringing mechs.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Sadly, tanks are the technicals of the Battletech universe.
            Use TacOps rules and presto, you barely even need mechs

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > Cheap shitboxes that are only used by military forces too poor to afford mechs.
            Only if you specifically go for the cheap ones. Three Gauss rifles are nothing to frick with

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Mounting LostTech to a tank
              >Mounting three of the fricking things
              You're insane. At least you'll have the advantage of the enemy having to puzzle through how to disable the thing without destroying those exotic weapons.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Mad because bad.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There's also the Schrek, which survived the Succession Wars. The same damage output as an Awesome, with no heat build-up.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Have you tried not being poor?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >You would think so, but they're surprisingly agile.
            Back before ECM got added, it was assumed that 'Mechs had a huge amount of EW gear already installed, which is part of why missiles cluster and why combat is so short-ranged.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You would think so, but they're surprisingly agile.

          [...]
          >A tank
          Sadly, tanks are the technicals of the Battletech universe. Cheap shitboxes that are only used by military forces too poor to afford mechs.

          Couple of things
          1. "Missiles" in BT are more like semi-guided rockets. Small, slow moving, dumb ones that are flying towards a grid square not locking onto a target.
          2. Mechs actually have a lot of AI behind them. The lore is a little fuzzy (and inconsistent) on how piloting Mechs actually works but for the most part it seems the overall consensus is "You tell the mech to turn right, the mech itself is the one actually deciding how to turn right without falling over." You're more like a animal handler than a puppet master. That said, the mech detects a missile salvo incoming and calculates trajectory and actively tries to step out of their way.
          3. Scale in battletech is really hard to conceptualize. It LOOKS like your mechs are standing just across the street from each other. They are actually 40 kilometers away. A grid square is supposed to be like 10 square kilometers, not barely big enough to contain the mech.
          4. BattleTech takes place in a darkage. While they have shit like mechs they don't know exactly how they work beyond "If you build things in this configuration the reactor will spin up." style emulation. One of the casualities of this backslide is sensors and guidance systems. A StarLeague era LRM might be able to neuter a gnat from over the horizon. A "modern" day one would be lucky to fly in a straight line for a mile much less strike a target from 50.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >1. "Missiles" in BT are more like semi-guided rockets. Small, slow moving, dumb ones that are flying towards a grid square not locking onto a target
            Depends on the ammo and the launcher. Dumb fire LRMs are their own thing, and the Artemis guidance system has been around since the Star League for both LRM and SRM launchers. See also: Streak missiles. There are also just normal rocket pods that put out a hellacious amount of damage but only hold a single salvo per weapon.
            >3. Scale in battletech is really hard to conceptualize. It LOOKS like your mechs are standing just across the street from each other. They are actually 40 kilometers away. A grid square is supposed to be like 10 square kilometers, not barely big enough to contain the mech.
            A hex is roughly 6 square km. Weapon range is determined in 90m increments. Is this very short for vehicle bound weapons? Yes. But it's a simple concession from the game designers to keep map sheets readable and small enough that you can play a game on your dinner table at home instead of renting out a pool hall just so you have something that can actually fit a map for your two lance skirmish game.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Depends on the ammo and the launcher. Dumb fire LRMs are their own thing, and the Artemis guidance system has been around since the Star League for both LRM and SRM launchers. See also: Streak missiles. There are also just normal rocket pods that put out a hellacious amount of damage but only hold a single salvo per weapon.

              I know the lore has moved forward from 3025 but literally all of that is lostech or new tech, not stock standard for most of the setting. And saying "thing since starleauge" is like saying the romans had hot running water and sewers do medieval peasants didn't shit in holes in the ground!

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >literally all of that is lostech or new tech, not stock standard for most of the setting.
                Anon, the Helm Memory Core was discovered and distributed in 3028. The setting is in the 3150s now and the Inner Sphere is well on its way to incorporating ClanTech, experimental Cappie stealth bullshit, and Wobbie magic into all corners of the setting. The Wobbie remnants even cracked true AI following the Jihad. Star League royal mechs haven't been cutting edge for almost a century in-setting and would simply be around par in most places.

                The Dark Ages have been over for a century now. Clan Diamond Shark/Sea Fox is even building new HPG relays.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Anon, the Helm Memory Core was discovered and distributed in 3028

                That would be three years later, they also didn't discover the core on thursday and start selling double heat sinks at walmart by saturday.

                >Stuff happened after the clan invasion

                Maybe at your table it did.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Clan Diamond Shark/Sea Fox is even building new HPG relays.
                Second gayest plotpoint in the entire series behind clan wolf

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >A grid square is supposed to be like 10 square kilometers
            No they fricking arent. One map hex is scaled to be 30m across. The ranges in battletech are deliberately shortened as a conscious decision to make the game playable on a kitchen table.
            >dark age babble with headcannon moronation
            The entire setting is not the third succession war. Frick off. Your comments about missiles are also wrong as frick.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You don't even play homosexual. There have been literally like six different official declarations of how big a hex is. There is probably more than one in that fricking book, as "30 meters wide" is far more moronic than usual.

              "How long can those long range missiles fly bro?"
              "Anywhere between 100 and, with a lot of luck and skill, as much as 600 meters!"

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well, can you find a resource backing your claim that hexes are multiple km wide? Even in the Mechwarrior games an AC/20 is usually only rated for ~300m optimal range even when they let you shoot beyond that.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well, the standard 'mech is two 'levels' in height, so each hex works like an infinite stack of 'levels'. Each level is 6m tall, and the formula for a hexagonal prism's volume is 3 * S * H * E. 3 * 51.962 * 6 * 15 = about 14 cubic kilometers!

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Can you cite anything that says level height correlates to hex radius?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Can you cite anything that says it doesn't? Height and width are the same scale is one of those "you have to prove they aren't" things, not "I have to explicitly prove they are."

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >asking to prove a negative
                Opinion discarded. You've made the assertion and you have at least once source from an official book that contradicts you. Let alone the fact that combat in the novels devolves into knife fighting and melee half the time. Shit, melee combat is so prolific in canon that the Marauder, which has no hands, still has specially reinforced sleeves for the arm weapons that allow the pilot to smack a b***h with for daring to get up in their grill without risking damage to the guns.

                Also, we have official specs for how fast mechs actually are which directly correlates to their speed value in hexes, so it's not difficult to eyeball hex radius off of that.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                to prove a negative
                You are indeed. There comes a certain where common sense says the scale in a 3D map is the same for height as width, sorry if I don't feel like tracking down to see if a dev ever actually explicitly said that in one of the dozens of rules books. I think they kind of expect you to not be moronic.

                >Blah blah blah
                I love the books as much as anyone but they aren't supposed to be rules accurate descriptions of BT combat. "Stackpoling", when you roll to see if a mech explodes after a reactor hit, is called so because Michael Stockpole had a habit of writing about exploding mechs in his many books... even though that literally isn't possible in either the RAW or the fluff behind how a mech reactor works. And the Marauder has reinforced arms for melee as a tongue in cheek reference to a scene for Macross/Robotech, where the design was "stolen" from, not because it's designed to punch things.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >melee is viable on the table
                >melee is viable in canon
                >melee is viable enough in canon and on the table that there's special equipment developed around making mechs better at it, like swords and TSM, and even purpose built mechs like the Neanderthal and Hatchetman
                >but hexes are actually wide open fields with mechs plinking from multiple kilometers away despite the fact that even moderately quick cavalry units top out around 81kph and a round of combat is only ~10 seconds
                If you can't actually cite anything backing up your argument then you don't have one.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                In the second edition rules they say a hex is six km/2 and a round is one minute.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >1m
                It's ten seconds. It may have been 1m back in 1985 when second edition was first printed but if it was, it isn't now.
                >6km/2
                That matches with a 30-40m radius, yes. It's not that much space.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Fair point except in the context of this argument. I recognize the picture in

                https://i.imgur.com/TNL2vig.jpeg

                >A grid square is supposed to be like 10 square kilometers
                No they fricking arent. One map hex is scaled to be 30m across. The ranges in battletech are deliberately shortened as a conscious decision to make the game playable on a kitchen table.
                >dark age babble with headcannon moronation
                The entire setting is not the third succession war. Frick off. Your comments about missiles are also wrong as frick.

                . That's at least two editions old. It's no more "current" than my book from the 80s.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What kind of moron math are you doing? How does someone as fricking stupid as you survive in the world? You should be fricking ashamed. A hexagon doesn't have a radius, and 30m across is the distance across the entire hex, from sode to side. Fricking loser, I swear to god people as stupid as you being allowed to vote is why this country is so fricked.

                In the second edition rules they say a hex is six km/2 and a round is one minute.

                km/2 isnt even a unit of area and you're too fricking illiterate to know that, so I feel comfortable rejecting your bullshit out of hand as moronic babble.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You must be fun at parties.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not my fault you're less literate than a 5th grader. You're stupid because you choose to be, probably out of laziness and entitlement.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're not nearly as smart as you think you are aspie.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >A hexagon doesn't have a radius
                It's an abstraction of a roughly circular area of land on a map that's been pared down to fit neatly on a sheet. If you take the weapon ranges provided by the Mechwarrior games they work out to hexes being roughly 90m across/6km squared/30-40m radius. It isn't that complicated. Although checking math for engine ratings and speeds it does look like the speed calcs assume ~40m across total. The vidya games probably stretch ranges a bit for balance reasons.

                >km/2 isnt even a unit of area
                Adding /2 isn't that uncommon of a way to shorthand 'squared' on forums that don't just have buttons or support using ^ for superscript, chill out.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                BT vidya games do not, by and large, use canon stats. They adjust everything from ranges to armor levels to provide an experience that is more entertaining for a vidya game--especially the ones where you're driving a single mech in real-time, rather than counting hexes. There's not really anything wrong with that, unless you insist on using vidya game rules to make incorrect statements regarding the TT rules, which are heavily documented across numerous rulebooks.

                The sole exception is MegaMek, which is as faithful towards the TT rules as you're ever going to get--and that's the whole point of why it was written in the first place.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                How does something 90m across have a "radius" of 30m? How fricking stupid are you? You're right that it isn't complicated, but your two braincells can't seem to manage it. Thats ignoring the fact that you're fricking wrong. The hex is 30m from edge to edge. Go look at

                https://i.imgur.com/TNL2vig.jpeg

                >A grid square is supposed to be like 10 square kilometers
                No they fricking arent. One map hex is scaled to be 30m across. The ranges in battletech are deliberately shortened as a conscious decision to make the game playable on a kitchen table.
                >dark age babble with headcannon moronation
                The entire setting is not the third succession war. Frick off. Your comments about missiles are also wrong as frick.

                . 30 hexes is 900m, so 30m per hex. Simple. Fricking. Math. For the record, a hexagon 30m across has an area of 779 square meters. Not even a fifth of your moron math estimate.

                "/2" has literally never been used to indicate a square. It's plainly dividing by two to literally everyone who reads it. If people dont want to hunt for ^, then they just add a 2 after the unit like km2. Alternatively they can just add "sq" before hand. Literally nobody used that, you're just too stupid to know how to express yourself in writing, so you use the wrong symbols.

                >A regular hexagon doesn't have a radius
                moron.

                The word you want is "apothem." A radius only matters to a circle. Did your shit parents not teach you shapes when they homeschooled you?

                t. Verification Not Required

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Mathlets don't understand that if a circle, hex or square is 30m in diameter/width then it is also 30m from center point to center point of adjacent grids.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >A regular hexagon doesn't have a radius
                moron.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No, 30m is the distance from the exact center of one hex to the exact center of any adjacent hex. Units are, for gameplay purposes, assumed to be in the center of their hex (because it's the smallest unit of distance on the mapboard).

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Second edition of *what*? Source, please.

                I understand that there are lore justifications in battletech to make the mechs good, im speaking strictly the real world.
                As other anons have stated theres really no logical reason in battletechs universe why the artificial muscles couldnt be adapted for conventional use other than in universe dogma, which is good a reason as any for a fictional setting.

                That's fine, as long as you make it clear you're talking real-life rather than BT rules/canon. Yes, realistically, giant robots don't make much military sense... but chicks dig giant robots, so we roll with it, and BT at least tries to keep things *somewhat* realistic by blatantly stealing most of its major events from history. Even then, under RAW, orbital bombardment generally trumps myomers unless there are ROE restrictions on its use.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                A hex represents a maximum amount of space, not the distance between units in that space.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes. And a Shadowhawk can sprint 5 hexes at 86kmh in ten seconds, which works out to each hex being about 40m across.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >post pictures from the actual designeres where they explicitly say that distances are gimped as a game design decision
                >n-n-no...y-you're wrong
                Cuck homosexual.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Posts one line from one book out of tens of thousands in dozens of books in a system notorious for ass pulls and retcons.

                Anon, if you actually research it you'll find the 30 meters thing is probably a new writer at catalyst skimmed Sarna.net, which probably made the number up, and then put the inaccurate information in a book.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >posts direct source
                >n-n-nooo. m-my headcannon might s-still be right...
                Cuck homosexual.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                A ground hex has been 30m since BattleDroids.

                There *are* alternate hex sizes, ranging from small (Ye Olde BattleTroops or Solaris rules), to medium (Alpha Strike or the modern low-altitude aerospace map, where a hex is 500m--the size of a standard mapsheet), to large (space hexes today) to ginormous (space hexes back in the AeroTech 1.0 days, where a planet fit in a single hex). But the basic ground map hex has never changed in 40 years.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > While they have shit like mechs they don't know exactly how they work
            This is not Warhammer.
            They absolutely did know how mechs worked and how to build them, outside of specific ones where the blueprints and such were lost.
            What they didn’t have in abundance was the facilities to build them. And the knowledge of some specific technologies (Double heat sinks being the big one) was lost.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Hexes are 30m and mechs are ~8-12m tall. The biggest are 18m tall. So if a mech is two inches tall, the hex should be six inches wide. Also it is a game, so the rules had to be something.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Assuming the mech doesn't just dodge the missiles.
        I don't see anything that large dodging hypervelocity projectiles

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >130km/h max speed
        >dodge modern ATGMS
        you mech gays are delusional

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      One of them gets through and scratches the paint. You need hundreds of launchers.

      Kinetic bombardment. Afghanistan-tier IEDs. A lot of artillery. Deprival of supplies. Wait for them to go into any amount of natural blight. Simply outlast them. Painting them with radiation. Direct artillery fire / Ship-based bombardment. Oh, also nooks.

      >Kinetic bombardment.
      Tanks can whittle them down but you're going to lose at least one platoon per battlemech you kill and that's if (big if) they are able to close the distance and get their hits in. Mechs are generally faster.
      Afghanistan-tier IEDs. A lot of artillery.
      These work, somewhat.
      Deprival of supplies.
      Energy weapons don't need ammo.
      Wait for them to go into any amount of natural blight. Simply outlast them. Painting them with radiation.
      I don't know what you mean by half of this. I'll just say it likely wouldn't affect them- they're equally at home in a volcanic hellscape as they are in a frozen wasteland or an airless moon. They can even ford rivers by walking across the bottom (though this has obvious risks)
      Direct artillery fire / Ship-based bombardment.
      WarShips are strategic-tier assets that are literally irreplaceable. Plus, the moment anybody moves their WarShips out of their defensive deployments is the moment the other great houses go for the jugular.
      Oh, also nooks.
      You destroyed the asset you were assigned to defend. Face the firing squad.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Macross barrage but bigger missile. The warhead and propellant aren't really the expensive part anyway.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You could always go the armed DropShip/Pocket WarShip route.

        https://i.imgur.com/wS68Wk0.png

        Since warfare seems to be moving in the direction of "launch a shit ton of precision ordinance from as far away as possible" wouldn't one of these be the answer?

        >I am become LRM, deleter of Locusts

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And it works on the tabletop! Not joking, it's called "crit hunting" and that's a legit build

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      if you think about it, at least with modern fire control systems, it would be very difficult to take out a lance of mechs. People seem to forget the moronic level of weaponry these things have. Any lasers mounted could double as anti missile systems that work at long range, nevermind the dedicated AMS that can rotate 360 degrees. A large laser would presumably be able to take a missile out from many miles away (tabletop ranges are dumb). Any sort of strategic artillery isn't going to hit jack shit that's on the move at 80kph.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >if you think about it, at least with modern fire control systems, it would be very difficult to take out a lance of mechs.
        You forget that there are ATGM systems capable of multiple lock-ons and launches IRL

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >A large laser would presumably be able to take a missile out from many miles away (tabletop ranges are dumb)

        Frick no. If a laser was that accurate missiles wouldn't even exist in the Mechwarrior universe since even those ones suck shit moving slowly and doing no damage and still hit their mark easily.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Kinetic bombardment. Afghanistan-tier IEDs. A lot of artillery. Deprival of supplies. Wait for them to go into any amount of natural blight. Simply outlast them. Painting them with radiation. Direct artillery fire / Ship-based bombardment. Oh, also nooks.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      IIRC 1 point of damage against a mech is the equivalent of three 120mm rounds from an Abram's tank hitting the exact same spot at the exact same time.

      So the question is...what do we have that is that powerful?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Most have energy weapons that allow them to operate for extended time without resupply. My favorite was the Timberwolf I put PPC in both arm slots and the rest was ER Medium and Large Lasers.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      IED's might not be the most successful when a person has to dig them in, and the all terrain vehicles has a small footprint, literally, that is vulnerable to the IED.

      Also they can fly.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    good morning i hate mechs

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >with a conventional force
      Clearly you should read the goddamn lore because it's been done numerous times over by infantry, tanks, and air support. Tanks like these guys right here ,

      https://i.imgur.com/wS68Wk0.png

      Since warfare seems to be moving in the direction of "launch a shit ton of precision ordinance from as far away as possible" wouldn't one of these be the answer?

      ,

      https://i.imgur.com/okXreSN.jpeg

      I mean, I'll give Battletech this, it's impressive the amount of lore justifications they have for why conventionals suck.
      >Myomer can't be used in conventionals so they're pretty slow in comparison, and can't be used in rough terrain
      >Myomer also conveniently takes care of the maintainence issues associated with real life mechs
      >Ablative armor means that the real-life meta of 'don't be seen and destroy something in one-shot' doesn't apply, because you apply chip damage to vehicles and mechs, and thus battles are basically slugging matches between two land-battleships
      >Neurohelmets only work with bipedal vehicles and...aircraft, for some reason. And it doesn't work well with four-legs either, so bipedal robots end up being the best.
      >Space travel is extremely limited and expensive so you want to bring as few people as possible, and since mechs have a crew of one, they're very manpower efficient
      >Artificial intelligence breaks when you try to bring it across space using FTL and nobody knows why or knows how to stop that from happening
      >The Ares Convention means that trying to find any better way of waging warfare is basically illegal and everybody will jump on you and obliterate you if you do
      >90% of planets are backwards rural backwaters and spaceship building capacity is mostly dead because a bunch of moronic monarchists decided to nuke each other in a WW1 style family clusterfrick

      The only part that doesn't have much logic behind it imo is the United States deciding to join the setting equivalent of the European Union and then becoming okay with monarchism. I don't care if the monarch's dynasty came from America, I don't care how much American football and cheeseburgers the new monarchical dynasty had, there is no way that's happening.

      >with a MODERN conventional force
      You don't, because like all fictional futuristic settings, the armor is magic-tier with some breakthrough in metallurgy that we can't comprehend because it's 415-ish years into the future

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Gun. And if that doesn't work, more gun. Or a HGN-732b Highlander Assault Mech (my beloved) with a Gauss Rifle, LRM 20 and SRM 6 with an Artemis IV FCS, and three Medium Lasers. That usually does the trick against the fricking Cappies.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Since warfare seems to be moving in the direction of "launch a shit ton of precision ordinance from as far away as possible" wouldn't one of these be the answer?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      One of those? Pffft, no.

      Better bring 12.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the "t" in that image is mildly annoying
      >+IP+oEING

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >battletech
    lmao have you played the game? Those things probably have less armor than an Abrams. Battletech has some of the shittiest mechs out there in terms of durability. They're outshined by Zakus and Leos for god's sake.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Those things probably have less armor than an Abrams
      Doesn't matter when that armor is ablative armor that has to be chipped away piece by piece like a video game healthbar.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >doesn't know about rolling critical hits on tabletop

        PrepHole casual

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You have to hit a non-armored section to do a critical hit.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >2024
            >not knowing about through-armor criticals

            Even a Locust's MG can take down a pristine Dire Wolf with a single hit on the tabletop if the dice gods are all on your side for that roll. The TAC Golden BB is real.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Wrong!
            >rolls a "2"
            >through armor critical
            >rolls a "12"
            >3 crits or limb blown off

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Note that the odds of that happening are 1/36 * 1/36. It's not impossible, but it's pretty rare. Still, once you're playing at the company or battalion level, it's likely that you'll see a few insta-kill TACs or headshots.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            In BT you can shoot a machinegun at a fresh from the factory Atlas AS7-D and watch it fall over, immobile from an engine crit through its multiple tons of CT armor.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            1/36 chance to TAC.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Realistically how are you supposed to fight made up shit that doesn't exist
    I'll use my matter-energy conversion weapons to smudge it out of existence
    Obviously, you stupid moron

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Realistically how are you supposed to fight one of these with a conventional force?
    Any smart weapon, they're basically not a thing in the setting. Also,
    >Shrug off abrams cannon
    >But also artillery does AOE damage with shrapnel
    lol,lmao even

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This lore is fricking moronic 40k tier

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I mean...yeah. The only thing that pisses me off is that Battletech fans will INSIST that Battletech is a "combined arms" game...

      ...and then you find out that their idea of 'combined arms' is "you're allowed to take non-mechs...but you can totally run an only mech army and it's super viable. Oh, and the only advantage conventional vehicles have over mechs is that they're cheap, and they're extremely niche in their roles."

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Depends on how you play. There are high-end vehicles that can wreck most 'mechs, but they tend to cost as much as a 'mech. And if you play with the optional artillery rules, well... well-aimed artillery can wreck anything. There are even instances in the lore where artillery wipes out entire regiments. And without the Ares Conventions, a single warship can glass every exposed city on an entire planet in a month or two. It's in-lore culture, more than technology, that makes 'mechs supreme, and honest players should recognize that.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Mechs and mechwarriors became central to military planning because they are both fragile and durable enough that the pilots can be blasted out of the wienerpits of enemy mechs without causing irreparable damage usually, allowing your side to capture it and use or cannibalize it. This is harder to do with most conventional vehicles because they're more compact and easy to completely destroy. Because the succession wars destroyed most mech and military vehicle manufacturing, the mechs survived and outlasted other types of military vehicles who saw less use as the wars went on because of attrition.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          "We'd better use these vehicles because they'd be easier to capture from us and use against us" is stupid from every aspect of world and lore-building.

          The problem is that any mech with flamethrowers and other anti-infantry weapons will make short work of them. Like...infantry even in their most ideal position STILL lose to a mech designed for anti-infantry. And if the mech isn't designed for anti-infantry...it just hops away.

          Mechs are so fricking good that they've replaced infantry as the queen of the battlefield and artillery as the king of the battlefield.

          The setting exists to fellate Mechs. Just like 40K exists to fellate Space Marines and Star Wars exists to fellate Jedi. Trying to build actual coherence and reasonability is pointless.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            40k isn't actually centralized in that way. Space marines aren't the main fighting force, the Guard is. They don't get the most OP shit, there are stronger individual units in most other factions. 40k is moronic simply because it doesn't care not to be

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >"We'd better use these vehicles because they'd be easier to capture from us and use against us"
            More like
            >We've been fighting for 400 years, all of our factories are rubble and our military power is a shadow of what it was when the war started. Might as well get some use out of this pile of lightly damaged mechs we have instead of just sending another meat wave as per usual.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >they'd be easier to capture from us and use against us"
            If you burn out or blow a tank the tank is burned and you're only salvaging some track links and bits that didn't get burned.

            If you core a mech, the limbs are generally intact. That includes arms with self contained weapons and legs with jumpjets.

            Tanks do get captured. They get mobility killed and the crew escapes or surrenders. A mobility kill and a jammed turret and that's a captured tank, unless the crew thermites it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I dunno, that is like saying Wargame: Airland Battle does not have combined arms because you can take an all infantry or all vehicle army. In BT, you can have an all mech force or mix in other units to be more effective. Most people just don't bother with extra stuff because the starter stuff is with simple mechs.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Working with other units also requires more thought and tactical mindset, something many don't want to put the work into learning. I've seen what combined forces with a good head behind them can do and they will frick over all mech forces, especially if the one running all mechs only focuses on the enemy mechs. Next thing you know you got infantry breathing down your neck and tanks taking advantage of the peppering the mechs/aerospace gave you.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Convees absolutely can and will frick up mechs. You just have to be more careful with them. Hell, the most point effecient fire support option in the game is still just a tank hull with a frickload of missiles strapped to the top. Keresnky help you if pic related happens to creep into your rear arch because you forgot to check a corner.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, sure, they can, but when you have one vehicle that's always awesome all the time, and you have another vehicle that, in rare niche occasions can be okay, and there's no real reason to go with the rare niche vehicle except if you're too poor to afford the good shit, then it's hardly combined arms.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Take that up with the TRO writers, most VTOLs are useless SRM-2 carrying crap but then there are great vees like the Yellow Jacket. They just either couldn't into balance/wanted to emphasize the pseudohistorical/RPG nature of the setting

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >They just either couldn't into balance/wanted to emphasize the pseudohistorical/RPG nature of the setting
              It's a mix. If you want an example, there's always the intro tech Shadowhawk and look at how it is on the table vs. in the books.
              >AC/5 is literally the least effecient weapon in the game
              >can't jump it's full running distance
              >all the different ammo bins make it a tinderbox
              >awkward range banding means it doesn't deal impressive damage at any range
              >wasted tonnage on too many sinks
              Vs the books where Grayson Carlyle takes one and manages to outfox a Crusader and Marauder at the same time. The Shadman is supposed to be a venerable workhorse of a trooper in setting but the early designers only half-understood what they were actually doing. Mostly they just wanted to make their cool mecha game.

              Speaking of the Gray Death Legion, they were the focus of the first novels published for the setting and they've always had a thing for combined arms. Grayson disables his first enemy mechs using hovercraft forces and a few rocket launchers.

              That's kind of his point, I think
              There are certain autopick vees and you never will use 90% of the rest

              Yeah, but that's true of a lot of the mechs too. The only way you ever see an Ostscout or stock Mauler on the table is if someone is deliberately running mook mechs.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Grayson Carlyle
                Found your problem.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Grayson disables his first enemy mechs using hovercraft forces
                To be fair didn't they have PPCs?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The ones in the book are 'light' PPCs (despite the book predating their invention by a long time) and I think at one point he even uses a handheld one. Thunder Rift was written when they were still figuring a bunch of stuff out, like how some of the light mechs featured in the book don't even have wienerpit glass and the Shadowhawk having a transparent canopy is a mark of just how ancient the design is. They were still figuring out a lot when the trilogy was written, I'm mostly using them as an example of combined arms being included in the setting from the start.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >rare niche vehicle
            Man, a lot of vees are very BV effecient on the board. If you aren't trying to climb mountains then the most absolute butthole move you can do is to just drown your opponent in Savannah Masters. But there are also plenty of non-meme vehicles too; the LRM carrier is an ancient staple and it's very BV effecient. You just can't let it get caught, but you don't really want any LRM boat to get caught out.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              That's kind of his point, I think
              There are certain autopick vees and you never will use 90% of the rest

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Fun fact:
        The Battle of Tukayyid is often hailed as a battle where conventional forces played an unusually large role in the battle, and is frequently upheld as an example of the setting's combined arms doctrine.

        The Battle of Tukayyid was also a battle where 80% of the ground vehicles involved were mechs.

        That's the standard for combined arms in this setting. 4 out of 5 vehicles being mechs is considered unusually low by the standards of the setting. And this is the fricking setting that's praised for its combined arms.

        Fricking Warhammer 40k does combined arms better.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Idk where you heard Tukkayid in particular was an example of a realistic order of battle in the BT universe. It was basically organized as a Kabuki theater to make the clans stop their invasion and bind them to a truce with their moronic honor rules.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The Battle of Tukayyid is often hailed as a battle where conventional forces played an unusually large role in the battle
          By whom? Where?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Battle of Tukayyid
            This is a real battle that happened at a battletech convention. The clan invasion was an event that happens over several days at a battletech convention. The silly batchalls where players fricking with the gamemasters.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I know what the Battle of Tukayyid is, I was asking who and where said that it was a battle in which conventional forces played an unusually large role.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Literally in 1990 when the battle took place.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >literally trust me bro
                Alright.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There was quite a bit of combined arms but it was mostly
                >ambushes and fixing attacks from infantry
                >arty bombardment
                >traps set along bridges and other infrastructure the Clans were supposed to capture
                >aerospace assets, although these tended to be pretty even during the Clan Invasion
                >attacks on the Clan baggage train
                So you don't see loads of Vees at Tukkayid but you do see most of the Clans getting blown the frick out because their fixation on their honor system and their progressive obsession with omnimechs has ruined their strategic thinking. They didn't have any experience dealing with entrenched infantry positions, minefields, etc. so they routinely blundered into traps while trying to bullrush the ComGuard and getting hit either from off the map or by something that was set up three weeks ago.

                The only Clan to soundly win their theater was Clan Wolf because their whole thing is adaptation and they'd had info gathering operations going on in the Sphere for decades prior to the Invasion amd came in knowing the war in the Sphere would be different than what they were used to.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                > The only Clan to soundly win their theater was Clan Wolf because their whole thing is adaptation
                And because the Comguards didn’t fight as hard because they had already achieved their objectives and beat the rest of the clans

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Mostly plot armor though.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Clan Wolf plot armor during the Invasion is cope. Although you might argue author favoritism. They had an extensive info network in the Inner Sphere via the Goons, successfully converted Phelan Kell who basically acted as a guide and intermediary, and had a Khan open to the idea of adapting tactics for the new theater. They had the most info and were the least hard-nosed about old methods and less prone to chimping out like the Jags or Falcons, which made surrendering to them more palatable. There's a reason the second least moronic Clan, Ghost Bear, also did moderately well compared to the other Invasion Clans.

                Not familiar with the Clan fluff post-FCCW so can't comment on any of that.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well, it’s Clan Wolf so that’s a given.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The fans. In the battletech general.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              They cojld atleast make the mechs could like the one in pacific rim

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >the battletech general
              So like 2-3 dozen homosexuals on /tg/.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Everyone else is a secondary

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Without spending a few pages explaining Clan combat doctrine (Basically if the clans had their way every battle would be a series of duels between mechwarriors.) they used that moronic thought process against the Clans and funneled them into a never ending series of ambushes by overwhelming firepower, artillery killboxes, and straight up "entire city is rigged to explode." traps.

          It was an example of how to take out mech battalions by fighting dirty, not tank vs mech tactics.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      True but who wants their escapism to be all drone drops? Nobody. Grounded settings in this day and age are fricking gay

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Ablative armor that has to be slowly chipped away piece by piece and is powerful enough to shrug off an Abram's cannon with no damage

    "No damage" is an abstraction for game mechanics, there are Autocannons in setting Ballistically similar to real world Autocannons which penetrate 1/10th or 1/20th what a 120mm round does.
    The armor is just a lot better at handling single impacts than repetitive impacts.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    a shitload of these guys (very BV efficient)
    make sure they are unpainted too it helps with the rolls

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm pretty sure I was thinking of buying this dude's Stinger print.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >No wonder battletech is such soulless shite.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What was the point of this thread? To prove that your fantasy made up walker is super cool? Essentially the equivalent of the kid on the playground who keeps coming up with infinity super lasers whenever you play fantasy war games?

    Grow the FRICK up. Throw your electronics in the trash, cut your hair, take a shower, and go out and get a job. You absolute clown.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >infantry
    You get some guys (like a few platoons) and give them a bunch of cheap LAWS or equivalent AT launchers. Then you give them as many satchel charges as you can spare. Finally you give them each a grapple and/or ice/climbing axe.

    Now that they are equipped you stick them in a forest, dense rocky cover, buildings, some sort of decent cover. It should be near a choke point or by an objective the Battlemech has to come near. When the enemy 'mech is in range you spam the ROCKET LAUNCHERS. Most the hits aren't going to do squat, but with enough hits you will get lucky and inflict a CRITICAL HIT on a leg actuator, gyro, or maybe hit the wienerpit enough to make the pilot dizzy and force the 'mech to fall PRONE. Now that the mech is on the ground your guys SWARM the fricker or do a LEG ATTACK and plant the charges in armor gaps, joints, vents, weapons ports etc. You could also just have your guys hide as best they can and hope the 'mech walks right into the middle of their position, then have them rush it with the grapples and climbing axes and try the SWARM or LEG attacks that way.

    You will lose many men, but even with current tech this would take down a Battlemech.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The problem is that any mech with flamethrowers and other anti-infantry weapons will make short work of them. Like...infantry even in their most ideal position STILL lose to a mech designed for anti-infantry. And if the mech isn't designed for anti-infantry...it just hops away.

      Mechs are so fricking good that they've replaced infantry as the queen of the battlefield and artillery as the king of the battlefield.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The infantry meta as always consists of field guns
        I don't know how people feel about LRM launcher infantry

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        As this guy

        The infantry meta as always consists of field guns
        I don't know how people feel about LRM launcher infantry

        points out there are many options to equip infantry with more firepower against mechs. Until you get later in the setting the main anti-infantry weapons for mechs are MGs and Flamers which are very short ranged, which means the mech is well within RL and SRM's "short" range. Against a few platoons of SRM infantry dug in most earlier mechs geared towards anti-infantry (HermesII, Vulcan, bugmechs, etc) are going to have to tank quite a bit of damage wiping out a few platoons. Most of those mechs are on the lighter side and aren't as heavily armored. It becomes a numbers question of how many men are you willing to loose to take down one mech? In-game infantry platoons are c-bill and BV cheap even when compared against your cheapest 20t mech packing MGs.
        >And if the mech isn't designed for anti-infantry...it just hops away.
        So then the infantry have done their job and forced a more expensive unit away from an objective or travel lane. In tabletop leg infantry function as mobile minefields, holding a location that you're not able or willing to have a more expensive unit hold.

        Later on in the setting when facing more advanced weapons like LBX ACs, plasma rifles/cannons, AP gauss, and specialty ammo the life of infantry becomes harder but only a fool pretends infantry don't matter

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Man, I love the design of the Assassin, but it's just such a pile of shit stats-wise.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      All the super-fast mediums are like that in IntroTech. Which is a shame because I like my little Baba Yaga shitbox (the Cicada) even though it's objectively kind of a mess. I was also always partial to the Vulcan even though it's got the exact same issues as the Assassin but with an AC/2 piled on top.

      Things get a bit nicer for fast mediums in later eras where they kind of supplant Lights as forward scouts thanks to both better weight saving tech and larger/more accurate guns making Lights less safe, so I guess there's that. If I ever do get into the tabletop scene I've always wanted to try putting together a force of jumpy mediums skirmishers with light gauss rifles who just skirt around the map being a squad of annoying sniper gremlins. I'm sure it would get old quickly but it seems like it could be a fun learning experience.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ah yes, the Cicada. Filling the niche of getting suicidally depressed mechwarriors with an aversion to Lights as fast in range of the enemy's weapons as possible.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Speed is armor in the tabletop. The cicada may explode if you look at it to hard but it's damn near impossible to actually hit when it's going full speed.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There's always MegaMek, which does have a single-player option--and unlike HBS, it follows the TT rules faithfully. Including ALL the optional rules.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Archer doesn't have it's doors
    Boourns

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    artillery strike and let the pilot dies of concussion?

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What if instead of conventionnal warfare VS mech, you had a justification that thanks to space colonization and plenty of resources, infantry kit evolved to the size of a mech, but tanks still exists, they sized up at the same rythm, have 800,000 hp engine, can go through mountains, fire 1200mm shells and sheeit but are as rare on the front as ww2, and mechs have nuclear shaped charge sticky bomb to throw on them.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Cool setting anon, it's basically Warhammer but dumber though, sm assault squads with melta bombs

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    OK but why are fusion engines less efficient the larger they are instead of the inverse?

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That Annihilator looks like a MechaGodzilla and this pleases me.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They need to make a mechwarrior game where mech movement isn't so clunky. In game they're drastically inferior to tanks.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      > In game they're drastically inferior to tanks.
      No they aren’t.
      In MW5 the only reason why tanks are even remotely a threat is because the game likes trying to bury you in them

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It might be my mods but Demolishers and Manticores are pretty sturdy. They need at least 2 or 3 shots with a maxxed out PPC plus usually some UAC5 spam to finish them off.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It might be my mods but Demolishers and Manticores are pretty sturdy. They need at least 2 or 3 shots with a maxxed out PPC plus usually some UAC5 spam to finish them off.

        Tanks in MW5 act weird compared to their versions on the table. Principally, they don't have multiple armor zones and instead they just have an HP bar. HP values in MW5 are also likely determined entirely by vees having to act as filler mooks that the player can wipe away by the score, which simply aren't how they function on the table. Although that's true of everything in MW5; ACs have been buffed, lasers nerfed (for the player), armor values are from MWO were used instead of TT (they're way higher), etc.

        Some autist has actually been trying to crowbar MW5 into more closely resembling TT rules and the instant he normalized stat values to tabletop the very first campaign mission in the Centurion became impossible because it turns out a medium trooper doesn't actually have the endurance to grind through a company of combat vehicles. Playtesters kept dying to the last manticore blocking them from extraction. The dev had to come in and make it spawn heavily damaged, IIRC

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I was playing MWO a few days and one match had this guy blowing up comms complaining armor values needed to reflect the TT and couldn't grasp that people didn't want to play rocket tag.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's how the MWO beta was, but since weapon damage isn't as spread out it just makes PPC, gauss, and pulse boats even worse

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      MW really has warped the perception of the mechs in the setting. Ironically the movement in titanfall is far more accurate, since it's just normal movement scaled up. Would be interesting to see a company tackle it.

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Realistically how are you supposed to fight one of these with a conventional force?
    Fire, pits, IEDs.

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Realistically how are you supposed to fight one of these with a conventional force?
    By making a tank out of the same level of technology.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Whenever they try that in the setting they get these results

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Those tanks have insanely bad fire control systems compared to the mechs.
        Also the tanks fire and the mechs move out of the way, yet when the mechs fire the tanks just sit there waiting to die.
        The mechs shoulder paldron just casually shrugs off the tanks fire, PUT THAT ARMOR ON THE TANK.
        The only accurate thing here is that the tanks got the first shot off due to not being a frick huge mech. If you gave the tanks the rocket launchers the mechs had they would have ended the fight on the first shot.
        Also the tanks fire moved way too slow, actually tank rounds would have moved too fast for the mechs to dodge.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The problem is that, so long as you have a mech setting, people expect the mechs to be badass, so you will never see a setting where the tanks are performing better than the mechs.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >gayBlack person japanese mecha
        i was really rooting for the tanks

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I mean, the fact that you needed a good 8 or so tanks in that gif to take out 1 mech demonstrates the problems tanks have.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >anime physics
        you realize the guns mechas use have rounds nearly 1/5th the size of the barrel

        in that animation at very least no 'mech reels from a single shot of a mecha gun like this' - no it gets hit with a bigger bullet bro bro bro

        dude... bro

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Mods hes back again
    >>/m/

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Realistically how are you supposed to fight one of these with a conventional force?
    Nano-machines.

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Realistically how are you supposed to fight one of these with a conventional force?
    >Bomb
    A big enough IED can brick a tank

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >gun does not work
    >Solution is to use bigger gun

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Here comes the sun dudu
    Here comes the sun dudu

    >take stealth boy
    >experimetnal mirv with big boy (16 nukes)
    >vats when they arent moving to the weakest part

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The fully assembled gun weighed nearly 1,350 tonnes (1,490 short tons), and could fire shells weighing 7 t (7.7 short tons) to a range of 47 km (29 mi).
    800 ms

    that about 4480000000 Joules of energy

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That is 3,304,278,428.762 foot pounds for my fellow burgers.
      For comparison an Iowa class 16"/50 Mk7 generates 262,335,603 fpe throwing Mk8 AP

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    armor that has to be slowly chipped away piece by piece and is powerful enough to shrug off an Abram's cannon with no damage
    Guarantee you APFSDS can pen it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not only can it not pen it, but our modern APFSDS can't even scratch it, it doesn't even do any damage to the very first layer.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        APFSDS can pen it.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Modern bunker buster can do 60 meter trough so yeah it can

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            60 meter through modern defenses. Not 60 meters through super-future-defenses

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You space magic alloy still cant beat good ol explosive.
              The inertia would stoll kill anyone ijside

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >UHHH ACKSHULLY SUPER FUTURE DEFENSES STOPS IT
              >Okay, how? These penetrators can go through dozens of meters of purpose-built armor.
              >UHhh it's fricking ABLATIVE, do you know what that means?
              >Yeah, I do. How does it stop it, though? How does it absorb all that energy
              >It ABLATES
              >We have had ablative armor for decades, nothing about it makes it resistant to penetration. How does it work to stop a penetrator?
              >by ABLATING

              Every single discussion with a BT fanboy

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ablative armor is about laser fire, it burns off a layer instead of burning through. It's not protection against penetration.

                That said it's made of sci-fi spacemagic bullshit. Your average battletech weapon has enough firepower to level an entire city, less armor than a snow blower, and the pilot's piss stream is further than his effective range for his twelve foot long cannon.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Machineguns penetrate any thickness

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >blocks your path

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Realistically how are you supposed to fight one of these with a conventional force?
    Well, considering they're imaginary, you just use your imagination to make a weapon that can defeat them.
    Problem solved, you stupid fricking homosexual shitposter.

  37. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is there any explanation as to why you can't slave weapons together?
    An AC/20 with 1 ton of ammo and the SHS to cool it is 22 tons. For the same amount of damage value of ammo that's 41 machineguns, which outdamages a UAC/20. If you want the same range profile medium lasers at 5/15 heatsinks saves two tons and does 5 more damage.
    Every mechwarrior game has this dilemma (softened by the arbitrary weapon hardpoints) but I've never heard a lore explanation as to why you can't make two guns hit the same point, technology from WW1.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You can slave together machineguns in arrays, which do what you ask, but the meta fact is that it breaks the game math set up in IntroTech, where the game was about feudal knights in robots fighting over the scraps of a fallen interstellar civilization. Mechwarrior Online and Mechwarrior 5 have near-perfect weapon convergence and to keep the game from devolving into rocket tag PGI had to double all HP values, lower AC velocity, make lasers damage over time, and institute harsh damage falloff outside of optimal ranges just to get the weapons to kind of fit into their tabletop niches.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        MWO also has a heat penalty for boating IIRC, it has been many years since I played I remember that shit

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I'd honestly like to see how the meta would evolve under a different set of constraints. Shorten laser pulse, increase projectile velocity, remove ghost heat - I'm not sure it would be FUN, but it'd be interesting

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You'd get PPC snipers and mlas brawlers. Although it would be cool if autocannons worked more like in the novels, where they just vomit a bajillion projectiles down range like a German who's had too much pervitin

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >You'd get PPC snipers and mlas brawlers.
              Yeah that tracks. Some of my favorite builds are basically already this, I just have to split things into fire groups and stagger fire.

              Quad PPC WHK and LPL/MLAS BLR are my all time favs.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Lol I remember making a quad AC/2 jaegermech that could just continue firing the entire round for the sole purpose of the screenshake that autocannons force on you

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This is what makes my UAC boating MCII so brutal - the DPS is good but the constant screenshake and explosions-in-your-face is better. Almost always makes opponents pull back into cover having made a bad trade.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This is what makes my UAC boating MCII so brutal - the DPS is good but the constant screenshake and explosions-in-your-face is better. Almost always makes opponents pull back into cover having made a bad trade.

                Screenshake only works if your opponent panics. Otherwise they're just going to tap "r" and aim for the square.

                .t guy with a 6 LAC5 Corsair and a 7 SRM6 Cyclops for the kind of people who bring six autocannons to a match

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's true, I'd forgotten that. They actually removed it on MW5 (thank goodness) and have eased up on it some for mechs that have less than ideal hardpoint locations. AC/20 crabs don't take a penalty for popping off both cannons at the same time anymore, for example. They've been slowly putting in a bunch of quirks like that.

  38. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    *shits all over your mech*

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >muh mechs are not obsolete, they have blah and blah and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      My friend is a former LL dev but I never really liked the mod much
      The weapons just looked awful

  39. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >muh mechs are not obsolete, they have blah and blah and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  40. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    A squad of brave men with satchel charges run up and place them in the foot and knee joints.
    I am Grayson Death Carlyle and I am a tactical genius.

  41. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I like the bushwacker, post bushie

  42. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    As an insurgent with a earth mover in this scenario I'd dig a hole for the legs and use any explosives I can get my hands on to breach the pilot compartment. If they are models without hands there's no effective way for them to stand up if they are tripped. The hard part would be covering the hole to look like solid enough ground to walk on. Alternatively setting charges in the ground blast the hole as the mech walks into the kill zone.

  43. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All I'm saying is I'd rather bring a Demolisher II than any mech.

  44. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Wtf is wrong with that Marauder? That's not what it's supposed to look like now is it?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's a Bullshark, an OC donutsteel unicorn from Harebrained Shemes' vidya Battletech game. IIRC it's an assault mech with a thumper arty on the back but I never played the DLC.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The one in the foreground? It's a Bullshark, early prototype clan mech from Wolverine that ended up in the Sphere after the "incident" with the other clans.
        It was created for an expansion of the Battletech TBS game and wasn't a canon mech prior to that. The dorsal gun is a Thumper.

        Thank you for the elucidation anons, thought I knew them all in my hubris

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If I remember correctly it's also not legal to build. You have to drop the jump jets to make weight.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Nah, the prefitted Bullsharks didn't come with JJs.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The Clantech one the devs posted did. The stripped down one had an extra ton somewhere as well based on their spec sheet.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Can you link it? I don't think I've seen that.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The one in the foreground? It's a Bullshark, early prototype clan mech from Wolverine that ended up in the Sphere after the "incident" with the other clans.
      It was created for an expansion of the Battletech TBS game and wasn't a canon mech prior to that. The dorsal gun is a Thumper.

  45. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are Mechs viable?
    No.
    >>>/m/
    Yet he will still repost this thread in a couple hours asking the same question. As it has been all day every day for the past few years.
    The answer is still no.
    Onion stuffing stuffing this spambot

  46. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Give me a lance of Hollanders for scouting.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why is a gauss rifle with legs allowed to be a mech again?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They can climb/navigate terrain most vees don't like while still being fairly quick. They'd be very good at harassing more traditional assault forces and fishing for headshots (although you'd also need some other sort of backup to deal with faster screening elements).

        Don't think they were ever very popular though, since they're so overspecialized. If you're bringing a highly mobile gauss these days it's probably a Yellow Jacket.

  47. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    While tough they aren't invincible. There are weapons like the AC/20 that are specially designed to destroy Mechs, and other weapons like the PPC that are just big enough to do so. Artillery is also steal a thing, in fact an even more vicious thing than it is IRL with stuff like magnetic cluster munitions that actively seek out vehicles, cling to them, THEN explode. And the pilot is as squishy as anyone else. It's a suicidal battlefield role but there are entire MOSeseseseses that's entire role is to sneak up behind a mech, climb up the ladder, and plant a brick of C4 on weak points like the joints or canopy or pilot's helmet.

  48. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Even in universe these are less effective than nuke truck ships and nuke truck ships were so effective they destroyed the ability for humans to mass produce them by nuking a bunch of important planets.

  49. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Very carefully.
    Most vehicles can go toe to toe with mechs. Battle armor is famed for causing mechs to punch themselves in the face. The only outlier is infantry but they can bring fun tools like field guns and can hold their own pretty well so long as there's nothing on the field like a piranha or firestarter

  50. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    EMP

  51. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Its shrimple.
    Any weapon, armor or powerplant technology that would allow for a mech to exist would make conventional vehicles better too.
    MBTs are insanely capable and well optimized, next gen tanks will compensate for more threats from top attack munitions from missiles or drones.

    I want mechs and power armor to be real too btw. I just dont know if its worth developing though.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Any weapon, armor or powerplant technology that would allow for a mech to exist would make conventional vehicles better too.

      The base tech that makes BT mechs possible doesn't translate to almost anything else besides mechs. They basically use artificial muscles, which are strong to begin with and get stronger as you scale them larger, you can't make a tank better by giving it literal muscles. Mechs are also nuclear powered. While it's possible to put a nuclear reactor inside a tank or helicopter, hell it's even done sometimes, it's not very practical to field an entire armored column of nuclear powered MBTs.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I understand that there are lore justifications in battletech to make the mechs good, im speaking strictly the real world.
        As other anons have stated theres really no logical reason in battletechs universe why the artificial muscles couldnt be adapted for conventional use other than in universe dogma, which is good a reason as any for a fictional setting.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Only up to a point on this particular point though. How would having artificial muscles improve a tank while still being a tank? A BT mech is a completely different class of vehicle than a tank or helicopter. Tanks and attack helicopters and ect have all the same scifi spacemagic bullshit armor and weapons as mechs, but the whole myomer thing just isn't compatible with either of them in any meaningful way. Like they said in Iron Man 2, "It's more accurate to call it a full body prosthetic than a weapon."

  52. 2 weeks ago
    Cohort

    Fast fixed wing mogs mechs in lore. Just don't try that shit with helicopters.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >tracks you easy
      >lawndarts you
      Nothin' personnel, flyboy.
      Ironically, the Blackjack with flak is a better AA mech than the Rifleman on account of the range advantage, but still. Not sure how the range advantage changes if you play with quirks though, since I think the Rifleman gets a flat -1 against aircraft.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Luv me Kallon
        Luv me small autocannons
        ‘ate VTOLS
        ‘ate aerospace fighters
        ‘ate Clanners (I’m racist)
        Simple as

  53. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I love battletech but the only thing that matters is tonnage. You can make any mech play any role as long as you have the weight for it. So all the special variants and shit don't really matter.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      An Atlas with nothing but small lasers is going to have a bad day if it runs into an urbanmech with a PPC.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Cohort

        >Man single handidly pisses off every charger pilot in the galaxy with a single post.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous
          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            How long until that urbie MASK wears off?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Someone did the maffs and it actually turns out the Charger is perfectly optimized for charge attacks, so the Atlas doesn't even beat it there.

          Although Charger probably still loses in a fist fight if it doesn't knock the Atlas down on the initial hit.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The Atlas will still be a frickton faster.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The UrbanMech can still jump on a shelf.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No if you strip a stock AS7-D of all it's weapon and replace them with small lasers you can pack 40 onto the chassis before you run out of critical locations. Assuming only half the lasers hit that's still 60 damage which will frick up that urbie long before the PPC breaks the Atlas's 19 tons of armor

        The Atlas will still be a frickton faster.

        The urbanmech variant with a PPC UM-R90 Suburbanmech moves at 3/5/3 instead of the usual 2/3/2

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It can shoot and scoot and the Atlas would never be in range.

          Look I know it's a moronic scenario but I was pointing out tonnage is in fact not everything.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Theoretically you can hit outside of Long range I think but the penalties are very sharp.

            Also I'm pretty sure alpha striking with 40 small lasers would run the risk of exploding the mech, so there's that too.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Extreme Range is +6, and energy weapons with a Long Range >6 can attack anything within ground LOS at +8.

  54. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Oh boy it's another trying to apply real world logic to battletech, even though the rulebook clearly states ranges and armor and damages are all abstracted for the sake of the game episode

  55. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Two lances of ECM scout mechs with TAG, and about 200 tracked LRM carriers.

    This defeats the assault lance.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That would defeat the assault battalion. The one-hit-kill/can't-scratch-your-paint vehicles in the video games are not at all lore accurate. A single land of 4 LRM carriers will be deleting hex's every round. The trade off is if anything gets within LOS of them they can't defend themselves.

  56. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This terrifies the myomer leg coper

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And just with that you lost rough terrain maneuverability.

      To be frank people who mention mechs as not being that good or logical have fair points, it's just that historical trends ended up getting us Battletech universe as it is, people are often irrationaland will fall for sunken cost fallacies, emotional attachment, contrarianism, etc, you only have to read the news to see this happens even IRL. A lot of "rational choices" weren't taken but since things "still works good enough" the setting remains functional and enjoyable.

  57. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The real reason myomer is almost exclusively used in mechs is because compact fusion powerplants are almost exclusively used in mechs. Most ground vehicles in battletech still use internal combustion engines.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >compact fusion powerplants are almost exclusively used in mechs
      Manticore

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >almost exclusively
        >almost
        Yeah

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Manticores are pretty widely used though aren't they?
          It would be like saying
          >IFVs almost elusively use calibers other than 25mm

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Don't confuse "Everyone uses them" with "There are tens of thousands of them." One thing this game is really shitty at is not portraying just how small the militaries of the Inner Sphere actually are. Modern day China probably has more troops than most of the Great Houses, which hold hundreds of populated planets each.

            Your average planetary militia is lucky to have tanks, much less super high-tech hover tanks that can go toe to toe with a medium mech.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fusion engines were used in tanks way back in the Star League. Lots of hover vehicles use them too, like the Savannah master which entered service in 3025. The larger ones required for 20+ ton vehicles just became rarer and it was more economical to divert them to mech forces and leave tanks with ICE since they can just vent heat from ballistics and missiles without giving a shit heat sinks.

  58. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Aside from the other stuff already mentioned, Battletech’s greatest sin is fudging the numbers. A Demolisher II can take on just about any mech, but it costs 7.5 million c-bills, which puts it up there at the same costs as some assault mechs.

    This is not at all how it should actually be though. Realistically it should probably cost half as much as it does right now. Achieving the same firepower and armor as an assault mech but in a far more ergonomic shape means far fewer resources expended and lower maintainence costs to boot.

    Even accounting for the travel requirements of the extra crew mates it shouldn’t matter, because the crew can help pitch in to the maintainence of the vehicle, whereas a mech will need a separated crew for that.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That tank makes my pp hard

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >which puts it up there at the same costs as some assault mechs
      It's a 3059 design that costs 25% less than a stock 3025 Atlas, which it shares an engine and weight with while having substantially more firepower and more advanced weapons. The Demolisher II's contemporary 100 ton assault mechs (that is, other 100 tonners that come out around the 3050s) are stuff like the Grand Titan and Devastator which run 29mil and 22mil a piece respectively.

      A contemporary Atlas design of the Demolisher II would be the AS7-K which I can't find cost numbers for on a lazy search, but it's got a 300 XL engine so it won't be much cheaper than the previous two entries, if at all.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not that guy, but what percent of a vehicle's/mech's cost is taken up by the fusion engine?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I couldn't give you a solid % but the engine is the most expensive part of most machines. XLs especially balloon costs significantly.

          If you want a comparison between examples in the same weight class:
          >an Arbiter is 35 tons, runs off of a 175 rated Fuel Cell engine and runs at 86kp/h (which is bad for a mech that weight in 3074, but it's a militia mech) and costs about 1.6m C-bills
          >A stock Panther PNT-9R, which is the introtech version introduced in 2759, is 35 tons, sports a 140 standard fusion engine, runs at 64km/h and can jump. It costs just shy of 2.5m C-bills per unit.
          >The Venom, 35 tons and introduced in 3050, sports a 280XL engine that allows it to run at 130km/h. Unit cost is just shy of 6.4m C-bills.

          As an example for Assaults, the stock Charger CGR-1A1 sports a 400 Standard fusion engine and runs a cool 7.5m C-bills while the Grand Titan has the same engine rating (although is 20 tons heavier) and costs over four times as much thanks to the XL. Speed in Battletech is quite expensive.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Okay there's no way it's more worth it to take 1 contemporary assault mech over 3-4 contemporary heavy tanks.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          And this is why poorly funded periphery militias, pirates, and others disproportionately rely on traditional armor and hovers over mechs, besides what they manage to capture/repair/inherit.

          If you're a house military, you're more limited by dropship tonnage than price, so you'll absolutely take a 100ton mech over a 100ton tank, especially when the mech offers superior sensors and data linking.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >especially when the mech offers superior sensors and data linking.
            That seems odd. Why not just put that stuff in a tank?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You want a tank to cost almost as much as a mech?
              Because mechs are the high price, high capability, prestige weapons of major militaries and get all the best toys. Tanks are supposed to be crewed by disposable commoners. Easily trained, easily replaced.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >You want a tank to cost almost as much as a mech?
                There's no way that a tank is going to cost as much as a mech just as a function of form. A box or egg shape is inherently way more efficient in terms of armor coverage and weight than a humanoid shape is.

                In other words, suppose you want a tank to have the same armor and weaponry as an Atlas...the resulting tank will probably weight about 1/3rd as much of an Atlas and be 1/3rd the cost.

                And if you wanted to make a tank that weighed as much as an Atlas? The resulting tank would be several times more powerful than the mech itself.

                Simply put, if you're deciding to make a tank, you're already designing something that will either save you immense cost and weight to match even with far heavier and more expensive mechs, or you're designing a vehicle that will exceed a mech's capabilities by vast quantities. Either way, why would you skimp out on the electronics? A tank is not a disposable vehicle, a tank is what you get when you want something more powerful than a mech.

                A tank is not a 'cheap mech'. A mech is a tank that gives up a LOT of its armor and weaponry for legs and arms.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Everything you are saying is 100% contradictory to all established Battletech design doctrine, but you do you.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This isn't up for debate, a box or a sphere objectively has less surface area than a humanoid shape according to the laws of basic fricking geometry.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well good thing battletech armor technology is not based on thickness and therefore reducing surface area isn't a design consideration. In fact, increased surface area means increased heat dissipation and radiative area which is another major constraint of weapon design in BT.

                Thanks for proving my point bololet.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Conventional vehicles in BT already don't have to worry about heat dissipation.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They do if they mount fusion engines or pack energy weapons. ICE vehicles require enough heatsinks to be heat neutral in the case they fire all energy weapons at once.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                > Well good thing battletech armor technology is not based on thickness
                Even so, you can fit more armor for the same tonnage on a box.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Battletech ignores this reality via its magical armor, where a single machinegun bullet perfectly sandpapers off a few layers of atoms from the entire frontal armor section of a mech. This is why a mech which has 5 times the frontal profile of a tank with the same weight of armor across that larger face has the same effective armor thickness - either way that machinegun bullet scrapes off the same number of atoms regardless of how thinly spread the armor is.

                Naturally, this is moronic, but it is the core conceit that holds BT's warfare technology together - without magic armor, mechs have paper armor and convees bully mechs into the dirt like they do IRL.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Crusade and Control
                >Starts checking and remembering all the drawings CnC fans did, and the Act of War, and Dawn of War
                I know Tempest Rising is gonna flop like Act of Agression did, and we aren't going to get DoW 1 with updated graphics but I am still going to buy it and then hope Generals Evolution and Mental Omega get some big updates, until then back to run my MERC company.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Mechs have eight armor sections, tanks have five. So 5/8 versus the 1/3 you want. It is a game.

                Legs and arms are like tracks or wheels where they don't need the same armor as the torso ball that holds the important bits. A tank track isn't armored. Legs don't need to be armored in the same ways. A little armor over the sensitive bits goes a long way. An infantryman wears a plate carrier and a little bit of kevlar. Their legs and arms are not armored. A military truck has an armored cab, the engine, chassis, fuel tank and wheels are not armored.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Demolisher is like the dual ac20 king crab which costs ~9mil. You're saving 20% in cost and get to have thick armor on fewer armor sections. You already have exactly the efficiency you wanted, but you seem to think that 20% isn't a good enough discount.

      Assault mechs usually cost between 8 and 15 mil cbills. XL engines are the biggest driver of cost.

  59. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    just stay further than 1km from them and you're literally untouchable, these tards would get mogged by any mid tier air force currently on earth

  60. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How would Battletech designs differ if fusion engines were more efficient as they grew larger like they should logically be instead of exponentially less efficient?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Assault mechs would get even better.
      Thats probably it. They can't really make them any bigger than 100t, smaller mechs would all be underpowered. Maybe you'd end up with more superheavy VTOL craft.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not only would they get better, but Assaults would be the best scouting platforms, since Battletech's silly engine scaling is the only reason why small mechs go faster than big mechs. Efficient large engines make small mechs worthless outside of niche roles, and would make large engine assaults move like absolute rockets. The Charger actually *would* be the best scout in the entire inner sphere.

  61. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    A 200 engine weighs 8.5 tons, a 400 52.5
    If it scaled linearly that would be 17 for a 400
    That's so silly holy shit

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      A charger with 52.5 tons of engine would be about 3x faster with that scaling, so 258 kph

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        An xl 2400 engine would do double that and an xxl 3600 triple
        That's 516 and 774 kph, and that's terrible

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        An xl 2400 engine would do double that and an xxl 3600 triple
        That's 516 and 774 kph, and that's terrible

        Even if it wouldn't actually make them faster, it would free up so much tonnage that you'd end up boating insane quantities of lasers and heat sinks.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      5/8 ain't free

  62. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I want a setting that takes battletech technology and extrapolated it realistically so you have 500 km/h tanks firing dozens of medium lasers per second

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >battletech technology and extrapolated it realistically so you have 500 km/h tanks firing dozens of medium lasers per second
      You could build that. Although you probably want to switch into small craft or dropship rules and use naval lasers.

  63. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Short term?
    >Overwhelming force using artillery, missiles, air support, and nukes
    Long term?
    Logistics

    The average LRM carrier is about as expensive as a mid-grade light mech. If you have decent recon, you can take out a medium and even heavy mech with such a weapon. Same with the infamous Long Tom Artillery.

    Aerospace units can easily climb high enough to evade mech-based weapons and then dive back down behind mechs, often going for weak spots in their rear.

    Nukes are nukes. The Great Houses loved using them from orbit.

    >Logistics
    Ultimately, mechs were made as a way to get around the Ares Convention while still providing a comparable level of effectiveness on par with weapons of mass destruction. The great grandaddy of mechs, The Mackie, nearly bankrupted the Hegemony Navy because of development costs, because they had to build literally EVERYTHING required to make a single mech model.

    Mechs are expensive, and building an original design can literally bankrupt a interstellar nation-state (especially when they first arrived on the scene). The advantage of mechs is they require less logistically than conventional units, as their power supplies can run almost indefinitely and so long as you have ammo, spare parts, armor, and pilots, you can run them damn near forever.

    But they take a long time to build and a lot of resources. This is why the OG state of affairs was Great Houses literally going to war over spare parts and bits of mechs to jury-rig what they still had. Apocalyptic war tends to destroy industrial bases, which mechs require.

    Ironically, before the Helm Memory Core, battlemechs were becoming rarer and rarer and would have ceased to be by 3080 if Comstar had their way.

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