A Secret War, Strange New Wounds, and Silence From the Pentagon

I read an interesting article in the NYT about US artillerymen deployed against ISIS suffering from brain injuries after firing extensive amounts of shells uninterrupted for extended periods of time. Going to copy and paste the article here.

>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/us/us-army-marines-artillery-isis-pentagon.html

  1. 1 month ago
    OP

    A secret U.S. offensive in 2016 and 2017 used an unusual strategy to defeat the Islamic State.

    The plan: Put a minimal number of American boots on the ground, and have the troops pound the enemy with relentless artillery fire.

    What no one foresaw was the devastating toll it would take on the troops who did the firing.

    Many U.S. troops who fired vast numbers of artillery rounds against the Islamic State developed mysterious, life-shattering mental and physical problems. But the military struggled to understand what was wrong.

    When Javier Ortiz came home from a secret mission in Syria, the ghost of a dead girl appeared to him in his kitchen. She was pale and covered in chalky dust, as if hit by an explosion, and her eyes stared at him with a glare as dark and heavy as oil.

    The 21-year-old Marine was part of an artillery gun crew that fought against the Islamic State, and he knew that his unit’s huge cannons had killed hundreds of enemy fighters. The ghost, he was sure, was their revenge.

    A shiver went through him. He backed into another room in his apartment near Camp Pendleton in California and flicked on the lights, certain that he was imagining things. She was still there.

    A few days later, in the barracks not far away, a 22-year-old Marine named Austin Powell pounded on his neighbor’s door in tears and stammered: “There’s something in my room! I’m hearing something in my room!”

    His neighbor, Brady Zipoy, 20, searched the room but found nothing.

    “It’s all right — I’ve been having problems, too,” Lance Corporal Zipoy said, tapping his head. The day before, he bent down to tie his boots and was floored by a sudden avalanche of emotion so overwhelming and bizarre that he had no words for it. “We’ll go see the doc,” he told his friend. “We’ll get help.”

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Hey I've seen this xfile, its that paraplegic asshole

  2. 1 month ago
    OP

    All through their unit — Alpha Battery, 1st Battalion, 11th Marines — troops came home feeling cursed. And the same thing was happening in other Marine and Army artillery units.

    An investigation by The New York Times found that many of the troops sent to bombard the Islamic State in 2016 and 2017 returned to the United States plagued by nightmares, panic attacks, depression and, in a few cases, hallucinations. Once-reliable Marines turned unpredictable and strange. Some are now homeless. A striking number eventually died by suicide, or tried to.

    Interviews with more than 40 gun-crew veterans and their families in 16 states found that the military repeatedly struggled to determine what was wrong after the troops returned from Syria and Iraq.

    All the gun crews filled out questionnaires to screen for post-traumatic stress disorder, and took tests to detect signs of traumatic brain injuries from enemy explosions. But the crews had been miles away from the front lines when they fired their long-range cannons, and most never saw direct fighting or suffered the kinds of combat injuries that the tests were designed to look for.

    A few gun-crew members were eventually given diagnoses of P.T.S.D., but to the crews that didn’t make much sense. They hadn’t, in most cases, even seen the enemy.

    The only thing remarkable about their deployments was the sheer number of artillery rounds they had fired.

    The United States had made a strategic decision to avoid sending large numbers of ground troops to fight the Islamic State, and instead relied on airstrikes and a handful of powerful artillery batteries to, as one retired general said at the time, “pound the bejesus out of them.” The strategy worked: Islamic State positions were all but eradicated, and hardly any American troops were killed.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      A secret U.S. offensive in 2016 and 2017 used an unusual strategy to defeat the Islamic State.

      The plan: Put a minimal number of American boots on the ground, and have the troops pound the enemy with relentless artillery fire.

      What no one foresaw was the devastating toll it would take on the troops who did the firing.

      Many U.S. troops who fired vast numbers of artillery rounds against the Islamic State developed mysterious, life-shattering mental and physical problems. But the military struggled to understand what was wrong.

      When Javier Ortiz came home from a secret mission in Syria, the ghost of a dead girl appeared to him in his kitchen. She was pale and covered in chalky dust, as if hit by an explosion, and her eyes stared at him with a glare as dark and heavy as oil.

      The 21-year-old Marine was part of an artillery gun crew that fought against the Islamic State, and he knew that his unit’s huge cannons had killed hundreds of enemy fighters. The ghost, he was sure, was their revenge.

      A shiver went through him. He backed into another room in his apartment near Camp Pendleton in California and flicked on the lights, certain that he was imagining things. She was still there.

      A few days later, in the barracks not far away, a 22-year-old Marine named Austin Powell pounded on his neighbor’s door in tears and stammered: “There’s something in my room! I’m hearing something in my room!”

      His neighbor, Brady Zipoy, 20, searched the room but found nothing.

      “It’s all right — I’ve been having problems, too,” Lance Corporal Zipoy said, tapping his head. The day before, he bent down to tie his boots and was floored by a sudden avalanche of emotion so overwhelming and bizarre that he had no words for it. “We’ll go see the doc,” he told his friend. “We’ll get help.”

      https://i.imgur.com/GlRcpJe.jpg

      But it meant that a small number of troops had to fire tens of thousands of high-explosive shells — far more rounds per crew member, experts say, than any American artillery battery had fired at least since the Vietnam War.

      Military guidelines say that firing all those rounds is safe. What happened to the crews suggests that those guidelines were wrong.

      The cannon blasts were strong enough to hurl a 100-pound round 15 miles, and each unleashed a shock wave that shot through the crew members’ bodies, vibrating bone, punching lungs and hearts, and whipping at cruise-missile speeds through the most delicate organ of all, the brain.

      More than a year after Marines started experiencing problems, the Marine Corps leadership tried to piece together what was happening by ordering a study of one of the hardest-hit units, Fox Battery, 2nd Battalion, 10th Marines.

      The research was limited to reviewing the troops’ medical records. No Marines were examined or interviewed. Even so, the report, published in 2019, made a startling finding: The gun crews were being hurt by their own weapons.

      More than half the Marines in the battery had eventually received diagnoses of traumatic brain injuries, according to a briefing prepared for Marine Corps headquarters. The report warned that the experience in Syria showed that firing a high number of rounds, day after day, could incapacitate crews “faster than combat replacements can be trained to replace them.”

      The military did not seem to be taking the threat seriously, the briefing cautioned: Safety training — both for gun crews and medical personnel — was so deficient, it said, that the risks of repeated blast exposure “are seemingly ignored.”

      Despite the concerns raised in the report, no one appears to have warned the commanders responsible for the gun crews. And no one told the hundreds of troops who had fired the rounds.

      “Oh my God, I was out of my mind — there was no understanding of what was happening,” he recalled in a recent interview from the hospital, rubbing his fists against his temples.

      “I’m angry, because I tried to get help in the Marines,” he said. “I knew something was wrong, but everybody just kind of blew it off.”

      This is God punishing you for trying to play as the Russians.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      this is something super inexpensive to solve.
      >1 mil-std pickup truck drops off an insulated control station that costs $50k and makes you immune to guns going off nearby

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        They could unironically deal with it using trenches and simple dirt ceilings. Pressure waves stop pretty easy

  3. 1 month ago
    OP

    But it meant that a small number of troops had to fire tens of thousands of high-explosive shells — far more rounds per crew member, experts say, than any American artillery battery had fired at least since the Vietnam War.

    Military guidelines say that firing all those rounds is safe. What happened to the crews suggests that those guidelines were wrong.

    The cannon blasts were strong enough to hurl a 100-pound round 15 miles, and each unleashed a shock wave that shot through the crew members’ bodies, vibrating bone, punching lungs and hearts, and whipping at cruise-missile speeds through the most delicate organ of all, the brain.

    More than a year after Marines started experiencing problems, the Marine Corps leadership tried to piece together what was happening by ordering a study of one of the hardest-hit units, Fox Battery, 2nd Battalion, 10th Marines.

    The research was limited to reviewing the troops’ medical records. No Marines were examined or interviewed. Even so, the report, published in 2019, made a startling finding: The gun crews were being hurt by their own weapons.

    More than half the Marines in the battery had eventually received diagnoses of traumatic brain injuries, according to a briefing prepared for Marine Corps headquarters. The report warned that the experience in Syria showed that firing a high number of rounds, day after day, could incapacitate crews “faster than combat replacements can be trained to replace them.”

    The military did not seem to be taking the threat seriously, the briefing cautioned: Safety training — both for gun crews and medical personnel — was so deficient, it said, that the risks of repeated blast exposure “are seemingly ignored.”

    Despite the concerns raised in the report, no one appears to have warned the commanders responsible for the gun crews. And no one told the hundreds of troops who had fired the rounds.

  4. 1 month ago
    OP

    Instead, in case after case, the military treated the crews’ combat injuries as routine psychiatric disorders, if they treated them at all. Troops were told they had attention deficit disorder or depression. Many were given potent psychotropic drugs that made it hard to function and failed to provide much relief.

    Others who started acting strangely after the deployments were simply dismissed as problems, punished for misconduct and forced out of the military in punitive ways that cut them off from the veterans’ health care benefits that they now desperately need.

    The Marine Corps has never commented publicly on the findings of the study. It declined to say who ordered it or why, and would not make the staff members who conducted it available for interviews. Officers who were in charge of the artillery batteries declined to comment for this article, or did not respond to interview requests.

    The silence has left the affected veterans to try to figure out for themselves what is happening.

    Many never have.

    Lance Corporal Powell, who was hearing things in his room, left the Marines and became a tow-truck driver in Kentucky, but he kept having paralyzing panic attacks on the road. In 2018, a year and a half after returning from Syria, he shot himself.

    His neighbor in the barracks, Lance Corporal Zipoy, moved back to his parents’ house in Minnesota and started college. In 2020 he began hearing voices and seeing hidden messages in street signs. A few days later, in the grips of a psychotic delusion, he entered a house he had never been in before and killed a man he had never met.

    When the police arrived, they found him wandering barefoot in the driveway. As they handcuffed him, he asked, “Are you going to take me to the moon?”

    He was found not guilty of murder by reason of mental illness in 2021 and was committed to a locked ward of the Minnesota Security Hospital. He is still there today.

  5. 1 month ago
    OP

    “Oh my God, I was out of my mind — there was no understanding of what was happening,” he recalled in a recent interview from the hospital, rubbing his fists against his temples.

    “I’m angry, because I tried to get help in the Marines,” he said. “I knew something was wrong, but everybody just kind of blew it off.”

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Thats wild, i was in the same grade as this guy in highschool. I remember when he got back everyone said he was acting crazy, out of the blue hed bring up random conspiracy theories, or think he was in a totally different place at times. Sad to see this happen to a guy who used to be calm and collected, nice to everyone

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        this guy had his schizophrenia brought out by the stress 100%. not the blasts.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    i believe you

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    How did no one realize that standing next to pressure waves would be a bad thing?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Also autoloaders and remote targeting/fire are needed for safety and performance
      No soldier should be near it when its firing at all

  8. 1 month ago
    OP

    When Lance Corporal Ortiz started seeing a ghost a few days after returning from Syria in 2017, it didn’t occur to him that he had been hurt by his own cannon. Instead, he was convinced that the enemy had put a hex on him.

    He tried to purify himself by lighting a fire on the beach near Camp Pendleton and burning his old combat gloves and journal from the deployment. But after the ashes cooled, the ghost was still there.

    For the next four years, he tried to play down his problems and make a career in the Marine Corps. He started a family. He was promoted to sergeant. He received a diagnosis of P.T.S.D. and was given various medications, but his panic attacks and hallucinations persisted. He started to have problems with his heart and digestion, too.

    He eventually asked for a transfer to a special medical battalion set up to give Marines who are wounded in combat a place to recover. But there was little in his record to suggest that he had seen combat or been wounded. His request was denied.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Lance Corporal Ortiz
      >...he was convinced that the enemy had put a hex on him.
      Can't wait until we have shamans alongside the medics, poking voodoo dolls, throwing chicken bones and dancing while screaming gibberish.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Combine the combat medic and shaman roles into a new MOS called Medicine Man

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Anon, if we ever get Shamans, you know that they'll actually work and they WILL be able to put terrifying curses on hostile combatants.
        The research is still ongoing, but it is going to happen.

  9. 1 month ago
    OP

    One Friday night in October 2020, he was having visions that ghosts were trying to pull him into another dimension. He stretched out naked on his kitchen floor, hoping that the cool touch of the tiles would restore his grip on reality. It didn’t work. In a panic, he called a cousin who had served in Iraq. His cousin said that what always worked for his P.T.S.D. was marijuana.

    Sergeant Ortiz bought some at a civilian dispensary. Though using marijuana is a crime in the military, he took a few puffs, relaxed and went to sleep.

    The next Monday, he admitted to his commanding officer what he had done. He apologized and told her that he had already referred himself to a Marine substance abuse program.

    The Marine Corps has regulations to ensure that Marines who break the rules because of P.T.S.D. or brain injuries are not punished for their missteps if their condition makes them unfit for duty. But records show that the Marine Corps decided Sergeant Ortiz had no qualifying injuries.

    In 2021, he was forced out for willful misconduct and given an other-than-honorable discharge that cut him off from access to therapy, medication, disability payments and other support intended for wounded veterans.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >He apologized and told her
      >and told her
      >told her
      >her
      >HER

      and thats whats wrong with the military today

  10. 1 month ago
    OP

    This spring, he and his family were squatting in a house in Kissimmee, Fla., that was going through foreclosure. The lights were off and the kitchen sink was overflowing with dishes. He stammered as he tried to recount his experiences, with a memory he says is now full of blanks.

    He has two young children, and has struggled to hold a job. Bills have piled up. The headaches are crushing, he said, and he feels that his memory is becoming worse. When asked about the apparition of the dead girl, he started to cry and lowered his voice so his wife wouldn’t hear. He admitted that he still saw the ghost. And other things.

    “I gave the Marine Corps everything,” he said. “And they spit me out with nothing. Damaged, damaged, very damaged.”

  11. 1 month ago
    OP

    Firing weapons is as fundamental to military service as tackling is to football. And research has started to reveal that, as with hits in football, repeated blast exposure from firing heavy weapons like cannons, mortars, shoulder-fired rockets and even large-caliber machine guns may cause irreparable injury to the brain. It is a sprawling problem that the military is just starting to come to grips with.

    The science is still in its infancy, but evidence suggests that while individual blasts rippling through brain tissue may not cause obvious, lasting injury, repeated exposure appears to create scarring that eventually could cause neural connections to fail, according to Gary Kamimori, a senior Army blast researcher who retired recently after a career studying the problem.

    “Think of it like a rubber band,” he said. “Stretch a rubber band a hundred times and it bounces back, but there are micro tears forming. The hundred-and-first time, it breaks.”

    Those blasts might never cause a person to see stars or experience other signs of concussion, but over time they may lead to sleeplessness, depression, anxiety and other symptoms that in many ways resemble P.T.S.D., according to Dr. Daniel Perl, a neuropathologist who runs a Defense Department tissue bank that preserves dead veterans’ brains for research.

    “It’s common to mistake a blast injury in the brain for something else, because when you walk into a clinic, it looks like a lot of other things,” Dr. Perl said.

    His lab has examined samples from hundreds of deceased veterans who were exposed to enemy explosions and blasts from firing weapons during their military careers. The researchers found a unique and consistent pattern of microscopic scarring.

  12. 1 month ago
    OP

    Finding that pattern in living veterans is another matter. There is currently no brain scan or blood test that can detect the minute injuries, Dr. Perl said; the damage can be seen only under microscopes once a service member has died. So there is no definitive way to tell whether a living person is injured. Even if there were, there is no therapy to fix it.

    The lab hasn’t examined any brains from artillery units sent to fight the Islamic State, but Dr. Perl said that he would not be surprised if many of them were affected. “You have a blast wave traveling at the speed of sound through the most complex and intricate organ in the body,” he said. “Wouldn’t you think there would be some damage?”

    The military for generations set maximum safe blast-exposure levels for eardrums and lungs, but never for brains. Anything that didn’t leave troops dazed was generally considered safe. But that has recently changed.

    Over the last decade, veterans suffering from brain injury-like symptoms after years of firing weapons pressured Congress to rethink the potential dangers, and lawmakers passed a number of bills from 2018 to 2022 ordering the Pentagon to start a sprawling “Warfighter Brain Health Initiative” to try to measure blast exposure and develop protocols to protect troops.

    “There is an absolutely clear awareness this can be considered a brain health threat,” said Kathy Lee, director of casualty management for the Office of Health Affairs at the Defense Department, who oversees the initiative.

    In response to questions from The Times, both the Army and Marine Corps acknowledged that some gun crew members were injured by blasts during the fight against the Islamic State. In part because of that experience, the branches say they now have programs to track and limit crews’ exposure.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Gee I wonder what changed

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      i dont get it

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >muh PTSD isnt real
      >t. retard neverserved
      Soldiers always get the shit end of the stick, since antiquity to now.
      For what it's worth, my great uncle came back from pic rel, saw everything from Guadalcanal to Okinawa. He would wake up screaming so much he slept with a bottle of whiskey under his pillow so he could go back to sleep. He died, IDK, like 6 years after the war ended.
      Ira Hayes raised the flag over Mount Suribachi, and he (by some accounts) drowned in his own vomit 10 years after the war ended.

      Many of the people who go to war never come back, thank your God(s) that you live in a peaceful society where the worst thing that can happen to you is someone being insensitive to you online, and not watching every friend you've ever had get bisected by machine gun fire 10,000 miles from home. Idiot.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Firing artillery at goat herders from miles away doesn't entitle you to unlimited benefits for the rest of your life, at the cost of the taxpayer.

        Grow the fuck up.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          If it caused any lasting damage or condition it literally does, per the VA.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          thank you for you tax dollars unironically
          t. 100%

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Firing artillery at goat herders from miles away doesn't entitle you to unlimited benefits for the rest of your life, at the cost of the taxpayer.
          Yes it does if it causes brain damage
          And it turns out it does

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Yes, we should spend it on gibs for baby boomers, israel, and naggers instead.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          They deserve it way more than the vast majority of useless retards getting government gibs.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Ira Hayes
        Bottle swilling alcoholic. Not a "hero" anymore than Jessica Lynch, just at the wrong time to be at the wrong place coincidence.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You're a fucking idiot. Buzz Aldrin was an alcoholic, and he was a literal rocket scientist who landed on the moon.
          What did you do? Not drink like a little bitch?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Also lived the longest out of the Apollo 11 crew. Although hearing that man talk about Neil Armstrong's passing he probably would trade his life for him and Collins both still being around.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Buzz Aldrin was an alcoholic
            Captain Rendezvous wasn't near the alcoholic Collins was, dipshit. Ira was a gutter drunk.

            Also lived the longest out of the Apollo 11 crew. Although hearing that man talk about Neil Armstrong's passing he probably would trade his life for him and Collins both still being around.

            The last of the worthy heros.
            Me too, fren. Me too.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Modern first aid and excellent casevac ensure that more of the people who have been in the shit survive the war.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      watch army film "Let there be light"

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Back then they just beat their family and drank themselves to death.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      those guys were fucked up to. raised the worst generation in the history of mankind

      Modern first aid and excellent casevac ensure that more of the people who have been in the shit survive the war.

      that wouldn't be a factor here. people with acute (potentially fatal) brain injury would be a different presentation. classic shell shock, speech and motor problems.
      its much more about the modern communication. If logistics brings the ammo and ISR brings the targets, nothing slows the rate of fire. Your jello cup just keeps getting jiggled all day long.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >its much more about the modern communication. If logistics brings the ammo and ISR brings the targets, nothing slows the rate of fire. Your jello cup just keeps getting jiggled all day long.
        Nah, rates of fire in Korea and the WWs (and Vietnam in spurts from FSBs) were incredibly high. Logistics was done with stockpiling and rail, ISR was done with a map and some grid squares with red on them, accuracy was by volume. I think we did see what's being described here, and just didn't openly talk about it in these terms.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          James Van Fleet single-handedly altering the minds of an entire generation of American men.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Audie Murphy had PTSD

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Gee I wonder what changed
      nothing changed
      People back then just didn't talk about it.
      They were quiet and maybe they always just happened to drink a little too much. If you knew what to look for back then you could likely spot it quite easily.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing. Medicine then was primitive at best and anyone so affected would not have been correctly diagnosed.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      people have become pussified. america is now a tranny shell of its once masculine glory

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The germans had a similar opinion of their young men, twice. Care to guess what happened to most of them?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        That's true. My old Vietnam vet neighbor who has PTSD along with half his friends were all pussies. Thanks anon, I forgot.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Read it too. Bitter reminder how much they'll chew you up and spit you out. It does feel retardedly archaic to still be using ripcord artillery.

      Their fucked up upbringing of boomers contributed to the explosion of violence, serial killers and general insanity so yeah I'd say Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose indeed.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Audie Murphy won the MoH, DSC, two SSMs, and a BSM-V. Literally every single award for valor that could be awarded. He still had PTSD and he publicly campaigned for Congress to give mental health treatment. You're just a bitter shut in pining after a time that never in fact existed.
      >After the war, they took Army dogs and rehabilitated them for civilian life. But they turned soldiers into civilians immediately, and let 'em sink or swim.
      >t. Audie Murphy

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        they still do it now with ptsd

        they don't even recognize ptsd if you've been in multiple fights and tell them the whole fucking thing has done it. you have to have a single event.

  14. 1 month ago
    OP

    But a Marine officer currently in charge of an artillery battery questioned whether that was accurate. He said recently that he has never seen or heard of the new safety guidelines, and that nothing was being done to document his troops’ blast exposure.

    The officer, who asked that his name not be used because he was not authorized to speak publicly, said he was experiencing splitting headaches and small seizures, but was worried that his injuries would not be acknowledged because there was no documentation that he was ever exposed to anything dangerous.

    In short, he said, there is little in military regulations now that might stop what happened to the artillery troops in Syria and Iraq from happening again.

  15. 1 month ago
    OP

    Paradoxically, the point of sending artillery batteries to Syria was to avoid American casualties.

    Islamic State fighters overran vast swaths of Syria and Iraq in 2014, taking over some of the region’s largest cities and using their self-proclaimed caliphate to organize attacks on civilian targets across the region and beyond. American military planners knew they needed to confront the Islamic State, but also knew that the American public was weary of long wars in the Middle East.

    Artillery offered a lot of bang with hardly any U.S. boots on the ground. A battery with four howitzers and about 100 troops could deliver a torrent of fire, day or night, in any weather. But keeping the troop count to a bare minimum meant there would be no relief shifts. Each battery would have to do the work of many.

    “The people running this war made a choice,” said Lt. Col. Jonathan O’Gorman, a Marine officer who oversaw artillery operations in the offensive and now teaches strategy at the U.S. Naval War College, “and choices have consequences.”

    Alpha battery troops set up their big guns in March 2017 in a dirt field in Syria within sight of the enemy-controlled city of Raqqa and almost immediately started firing. They rarely stopped for the next two months.

  16. 1 month ago
    OP

    Night and day they hurled rounds, using some of the military’s most sophisticated cannons, M777A2 howitzers. The 35-foot-long guns had modern, precisely designed titanium parts and a digital targeting system, but when it came to protecting the crew the design had changed little in a century. Gun crews still worked within arm’s reach of the barrel and fired the gun by pulling a simple cord.

    The resulting blast was several times louder than a jet taking off, and unleashed a shock wave that hit the crews like a kick to the chest. Ears rang, bones shivered, vision blurred as eyeballs momentarily compressed, and a ripple shot through every neuron in the brain like a whipcrack.

    “You feel it in your core, you feel it in your teeth,” said Carson Brown, a corporal from Idaho who pulled the firing cord for hundreds of shots. “It’s like it takes a year off your life.”

    The relentless firing was being driven by a small, top-secret Army Delta Force group called Task Force 9. President Donald J. Trump had given the task force broad authority to use heavy firepower, and the task force applied it with savage enthusiasm, often bending the rules to hit not just enemy positions, but also mosques, schools, dams and power plants.

    Sometimes, artillery crew members said, the task force ordered them to fire in a grid pattern, not aiming at any specific target but simply hurling rounds toward Raqqa, to keep the enemy on edge.

    The military’s Central Command, which oversaw the task force, did not respond to requests for comment.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Jesus Christ, this is so poorly written and so fucking melodramatic.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >using some of the military’s most sophisticated cannons
        yes, this is quality article, i believe verything it says

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >often bending the rules to hit not just enemy positions, but also mosques, schools, dams and power plants.
      Why did they do this? Uh... don't worry about that. The important thing is they did. Our source for the claim that US troops inflicted comically non-sensical violence for no fucking benefit at all? We can't name them... for journalist reasons.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >some of the military’s most sophisticated cannons, M777A2 howitzers.
      Don't let journalism majors write about anything connected to war, kids.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Or guns in general
        https://www.nydailynews.com/2016/07/14/what-is-it-like-to-fire-an-ar-15-its-horrifying-menacing-and-very-very-loud/
        >Not in my hands. I’ve shot pistols before, but never something like an AR-15. Squeeze lightly on the trigger and the resulting explosion of firepower is humbling and deafening (even with ear protection).
        >The recoil bruised my shoulder, which can happen if you don’t know what you’re doing. The brass shell casings disoriented me as they flew past my face. The smell of sulfur and destruction made me sick. The explosions — loud like a bomb — gave me a temporary form of PTSD. For at least an hour after firing the gun just a few times, I was anxious and irritable.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >The relentless firing was being driven by a small, top-secret Army Delta Force group called Task Force 9. President Donald J. Trump had given the task force broad authority to use heavy firepower, and the task force applied it with savage enthusiasm, often bending the rules to hit not just enemy positions, but also mosques, schools, dams and power plants.

      >mosques, schools, dams and power plants.

      >schools

      kids

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >bending rules

        Actions have consequences,

        That's Delta Force, the officers and commanders, not the crewmen doing the actual dirty work. Don't you guys worship Delta Force?

        If they didn't stoop to match such dishonorable ISIS level tactics and order such evil, then they wouldn't have damaged so many souls under their command.

        This is what the IDF is doing to Gaza right now, using American taxpayer billions and cutting-edge weaponry. You can vote GOP or DNC, both are zionist and support the genocide. They are also killing Christians in Palestine.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >That's Delta Force, the officers and commanders, not the crewmen doing the actual dirty work. Don't you guys worship Delta Force?

          Well, it also goes to the very top, as the force was authorized by the president. But still, they willingly ordered attacks on schools and indiscriminate bombing of urban civilian areas, which is a war crime.

          While ISIS is an apocalyptic Islamic doomsday cult that kidnaps and rapes Syrian Christian women, hence the Syrian all-female self-defense forces. The largest military power in the world meets an apocalyptic doomsday cult in the Holy Land.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        maybe his hallucination is a real ghost did he ever consider that

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >kids
        just mudslime kids, a.k.a. future terrorists or welfare leeches

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >participate in the very rare case when the enemy you're fighting represents a pure ontological evil
    >never fear for your life as the snackbars are way too stupid for counterbattery fire
    >never witness the death and destruction you're inflicting on the enemy
    >AAAAAAH I'M HAVING A PTSD BECAUSE WAR IS LE BAD

    Do westoids really?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >AAAAAAH I'M HAVING A PTSD BECAUSE WAR IS LE BAD
      >Do westoids really?
      Did you not read it?
      Their brains got fucking scrambled abd scarred from sitting next to explosions

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >arguing with retard edgelords who hate the military (probably for either getting raped by ex-mil stepdad, or getting rejected for autism)
        >not ignoring them
        What do you expect to happen here if you continue?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It was from TBIs from firing and insane number of max charge round.
      Frankly its an issue with every big gun its just the damage is small but culmintive.
      Every shot is basically powered by a fraction of your IQ.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      illiterate ESL shitskin retard

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      in the very rare case when the enemy you're fighting represents a pure ontological evil
      lol, 99% of the people they shelled were Syrian civilians, and they knew it. That's why they're ""haunted"" by the ghost of a dead girl.

  18. 1 month ago
    OP

    The demands of Task Force 9 led to rates of artillery fire not seen in generations.

    During Operation Desert Storm in 1991, artillery crews fired an average of 70 rounds during the entire six-week campaign, said John Grenier, a historian at the Army’s Field Artillery School. During the initial months of the invasion of Iraq in 2003, crews fired an average of 260 rounds. In Syria, each gun in Alpha battery shot more than 1,100 rounds in two months — most of them using high-powered charges that produce the strongest shock waves. Some guns in Fox battery, which replaced Alpha, fired about 10,000 rounds each.

    “It’s shocking, insane,” Mr. Grenier said.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    at least this /misc/yp thread is slightly better thought out than the last 3-4 "US MILITARY BAD'

  20. 1 month ago
    OP

    Under the relentless tempo, Marines would wake up feeling hung over and stagger to the guns like zombies. Their sense of taste changed. Some threw up. Crews grew irritable and fights broke out.

    The symptoms were telltale signs of concussion, but also what anyone might feel after a string of stressful 20-hour workdays in the desert, sleeping in foxholes and eating rations from plastic pouches. Medics came around daily to check on the crews but never intervened. And Marines trained to endure didn’t complain.

    A 20-year-old Marine from Missouri named Brandon Mooney was doing maintenance on his gun when he began to realize that he could no longer figure out how to put the pieces back together.

    “It got to a point where you knew the firing was affecting you, but what could you do? Refuse to do the mission?” he said in an interview.

    When he returned home, screening tests said he was fine, but he was tormented by anxiety, sleep paralysis and hallucinations of a black demon standing over his bed.

    After he left the Marine Corps, he became depressed and suicidal. He went to a veterans’ hospital for help. Though he never experienced anything he considered particularly traumatic in Syria, his nightmares and anxiety were diagnosed as P.T.S.D.

    “From what, though?” he said in the interview. “I could never understand it.”

  21. 1 month ago
    OP

    Do you fags want me to continue?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yes
      Don't let the idiots who cant read stop you

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I question weather or not its forced vacines coupled with concusive induced trauma.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        More of the former, but the latter certainly isn't helping

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Look up that article on tiny bones in the ear canal. If they rupture it can cause brain injury.
          Also, those troops should be tested for that same brain injury football players get

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Because I recall an article from 2006-2008 I believe in which vacines were causing similar issues. These were only given to soldiers going to Iraq.
        They were to prevent nerve gas If I recall.
        Ended up causing life long psycological issues. In one case a soldier who had been in the top 10% of his units. Awarded and recommended for advancement.
        Ended up getting dropped out for some petty shit.
        Theres a direct link between the day he got the shot and his down fall mentally.
        Everything before that day he was a top performing soldier.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >vacines [sic]
          >nerve gas
          it's not a vaccine, it is an ANTIDOTE for nerve gas.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You might be talking about that anti-malarial vaccine that caused psych issues in some individuals

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Malaria vaccine fucks you up, universally causes horrible nightmares. But do you know what’s worse?
            Malaria.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Nerve agent antidote is also a nerve agent.
          Most nerve gas locks your nerves off The antidote locks them on and is also deadly.
          There is another shot you carry thats an antidote to the antidote.
          The Antidote a few people who panicked and thought they just got nerve gassed.
          The nerve agents warning signs can also be confused with signs of panic.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        More of the former, but the latter certainly isn't helping

        >muh forced vaccines
        No one gave a fuck about military vaccines until Covid, which tells you everything you need to know about how legitimate it is. Soldiers take them, and it is required, because man it sure would suck if one of the best bioweapons got used against unvaccinated soldiers wouldn't it? Nah, let's not inoculate because Jenny McCarthy said so and get raped by 1950s technology.
        You cannot win a war if your guys are sick all the time or die from a cloud of anthrax spores.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          So according to your logic, Gulf War Syndrom doesnt exist.
          Real smart take there

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Gulf War Syndrome is probably just the effects of being exposed to Sarin.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >be humans(White people)
          >practice inoculation for 300 odd years
          >be you(brown)
          >thinks you HAVE to be jabbed with a special blend of retrovirus that can THEORETICALLY inoculte you(almost 10% effective guys!!)
          No

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >projecting brownness onto others
            Two more weeks until us vaxxies stroke out though, right tourist?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >10%
            Where in the flying fuck are you getting these numbers Ahmed lmfao

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >No one gave a fuck about military vaccines until Covid
          That's not true. As an outsider looking in, vaccines and the distrust former servicemen had were discussed at length through the 2000s in the internet spaces. My own father was deployed to Africa way back then and the known side effects from the issued malaria pills had the whole squadron refuse to take them. Distrust for the military mandatory bullshit is going to be inherently high especially after all the experiments the US govt did on soldiers during the Cold War.
          >it sure would suck if one of the best bioweapons got used against unvaccinated soldiers wouldn't it?
          Yeah, it sure would. How convenient that Bruce Ivins's anthrax vaccine program could be shut down and suddenly we have this bioweapon suddenly become relevant through the letter attacks in the fall of 2001. HMMMMMMMM.....
          >Jenny McCarthy
          Nobody gave a shit about her.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Nobody gave a shit about her.
            >ignoring the intellectual leader of your movement
            disrespectful and ungrateful, you wouldnt be here were it not for her

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >"ignoring the intellectual leader of your movement"
              >soldiers
              >intellect

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                One scientist is worth 1000 soldiers. Everyone knows that except the 1000 soldiers.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Please continue, OP. Just ignore the chaff.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, interesting article.

      >AAAAAAH I'M HAVING A PTSD BECAUSE WAR IS LE BAD
      >Do westoids really?
      Did you not read it?
      Their brains got fucking scrambled abd scarred from sitting next to explosions

      Stop trying to argue with brown people. It's an exercise in futility.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Thank you for your service

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    WHAT? NO, I DON’T KNOW WHERE THE TENT’S GONE. WIND MUST HAVE CARRIED IT AWAY

  23. 1 month ago
    OP

    In the spring of 2017, two months after coming home from firing thousands of rounds in Iraq, Sgt. First Class Tyler Chatfield went missing in Kentucky.

    He was a senior soldier in Charlie Battery of the Army’s 1st Battalion, 320th Field Artillery Regiment. The battery had fired a stunning number of rounds against the Islamic State and then returned to Fort Campbell, Ky., in February 2017, just as the Marines were deploying.

    At Fort Campbell, soldiers were struggling to sleep, and were stalked by hard-edged anxiety that sometimes veered into panic.

    Everyone was screened for P.T.S.D. and brain injury. The tests showed nothing unusual.

    Iraq was Sergeant Chatfield’s third deployment, and his wife knew that homecomings could be rough, but this one seemed OK. He was relaxed, loving, engaged. He was coaching Little League and building a chicken coop in the backyard.

    Then one morning he was at the gym and his heart started racing like a jack rabbit. Cold sweat poured down his neck, and he started to vomit. He was sure he was having a heart attack. He was 26 years old.

    His wife took him to the hospital but, other than some inflammation, cardiologists found nothing wrong. He went home, and a few days later had another attack.

    Maybe it’s anxiety, a doctor suggested; he prescribed Xanax.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >increase pay to 20k a year starting, plus performance benefits
    >no income tax for active duty
    >problem solved
    Isn't E1 pay like $14,000? Fucking pay them a decent wage and problem will be gone overnight,

    [...]
    at least this /misc/yp thread is slightly better thought out than the last 3-4 "US MILITARY BAD'

    I saw this thread today, wanted to discuss it but I guess OP is going to spam the whole thing. Maybe for the best, since NYT is, while reputable, behind a paywall. And most zoom zooms are retardedly incapable of circumventing basic retard filters.

    >in b4 israelite york times or some dumb shit
    Name a more reputable source or keep it to yourself, NYT/WaPo/WSJ are not perfect but still better than almost everyone else.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      23k. But the idea is you dont pay for room and board...which is huge. You dont stay E1 for long anyways. then bonuses, bennies, etc.

      The truth is there is no real recruiting issues, by "missing recruitment (which only the army did last year), they are only missing it by .5% or so.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I thought it was effectively ~1400 per month. Which is shit, that was how much I made at my very first job.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          1400 a month (barring extreme retardation): doesnt have to pay rent or utilities, cant be homeless, cant starve, free at least middling quality health and dental care, high job stability and career potential, education benefits, random other bullshit i cant think up right now, all you really need is to graduate highschool and boom you start

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >NYT/WaPo/WSJ are not perfect but still better than almost everyone else
      NYT shilled for defunding the police, banning guns, anti-white activism, etc. etc. they constantly parrot leftist propaganda. You are a retarded redditor if you think they are anything close to reputable

      Don't take my word for it, even Wikipedia has a long list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_New_York_Times_controversies

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        They were also big supporters of Hitler and Stalin back in the '30s, and lied through their teeth about the holodomor.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          And they have a literal Hitler-fanboy reporting on Israel in this war lel

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          To be fair lots of people here thought Hitler was an alright dude, I dont think it is fair to judge people who did not know any better at the time. It was the Depression and the Nazis were masters of projecting a cool image. If they stayed true after Kristallnacht however…

          >Holdomor
          Fucked up, but that was almost a century ago

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            kys

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        again, post someone else with fewer controversies. Yes theyve fucked up plenty, but theyve not fucked up expontentially more. Im not a fanboi, I just think theyre one of the relatively more reliable news reporting organizations around.
        But here is the reason I am asking for an alternative:
        1. Many of the people who bitch the loudest about NYT are Fox News/Breitbart viewers, which is why the criticize but never open themselves up for criticism of their own news choice
        2. if there is a better alternative id take it in a second

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >fucking pay them a decent wage
      Service members are well compensated. In fact most of the slobs walking around base are way overpaid.

  25. 1 month ago
    OP

    Traumatic brain injuries can have profound effects on parts of the body that are nowhere near the skull, because the damage can cause communication with other organs to malfunction. Dozens of the young veterans interviewed by The Times said they now had elevated, irregular heartbeats and persistent, painful problems with their digestion.

    Sergeant Chatfield never thought to mention the blasts he had endured to the doctors, his wife said. And the doctors didn’t ask.

    The next few days for the sergeant were quiet. He took his pills and rested. He roasted marshmallows in the backyard with his boys.

    Then he was gone. He wasn’t in bed when his wife woke up on the Thursday morning after the attack. He wasn’t at work, either. The Army and local police went out looking for him.

    His wife was sure he would show up to coach his sons’ afternoon baseball game. But in the ninth inning, she was still scanning the parking lot.

    She felt so uneasy by the end of the game that she asked another soldier to escort her home. The soldier went into the house first and emerged a few minutes later shaking his head. He had found Sergeant Chatfield’s body in the garage, behind a stack of boxes. The sergeant had taken his own life.

    He left a short goodbye text, but said nothing that shed light on his decision. The Army investigated, but didn’t uncover anything that his wife, Janae’ Chatfield, felt could explain it.

    “None of it made any sense,” she said in an interview. “I don’t know why it happened. I don’t think I ever will.”

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    To be fair, when you're 18 you think you're invincible and none of it will happen to you.
    Also, just read what the average youtube comments section or even /k/ thread says about war, the vast majority of people is more influenced by cowadoody than actual real testimonies.
    The problem with talking about recruitment is that you're trying to think logically and long term when so many people walking around are stupid and if they had better long term planning ability they wouldn't be thinking about joining the military anyway.

  27. 1 month ago
    OP

    All four of the artillery batteries examined by The Times have had at least one suicide — a striking pattern, since death by suicide is rare even in high-risk populations. Some batteries have had several, and many service members said in interviews that they had tried to kill themselves.

    A friend of Sergeant Chatfield’s, Staff Sgt. Joshua James, changed from an easygoing young father into an alcoholic, afflicted by anxiety and headaches.

    He seemed to grow worse every year. In 2021, an M.R.I. detected an abnormality deep in his brain, but doctors said they were not sure what caused it or what could be done. In November 2022, he was on a road trip with his family when he got into an argument with his wife. With no warning, he shot himself in the drive-through of a fast-food restaurant.

    “The man who deployed never really came back,” Lindsey James, the sergeant’s wife, said in an interview at her home in Tennessee. “He was a different person. He never understood what was happening to him. I don’t think the Army did, either.”

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This one honestly made me cry

      thank you for you tax dollars unironically
      t. 100%

      This one made me laugh, thanks bro

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >be me muhreen
    >not arty but AAVs
    >2 guns in M2 and Mk 19
    >turret so cramped basically both receivers sit on each side of your head
    >spend weeks at a time firing both every day
    >am now retarded.
    Explains a lot tbh.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Bro, i was a fucking 1833 too, and its the same shit. My ears are wrecked to shit and my memories so bad. Constand ringing and headaches.
      That dam turret was like being inside a fucking bell jar. I have sutch hard time keeping by brain going on anything.

  29. 1 month ago
    OP

    The Defense Department has spent more than a billion dollars in the last decade to research traumatic brain injury, but it still knows very little about what might have happened to the artillery crews. Nearly all of the research has focused on big explosions from roadside bombs and other enemy attacks, not the blast waves from the routine firing of weapons.

    Still, as that research progressed and studies tried to define the threshold at which an explosion caused brain damage, a growing amount of data suggested that the level was much lower than expected — so low, in fact, that it wasn’t much different from what troops experienced when they pulled the cord on an artillery cannon.

    In 2016, while the U.S. military was exposing gun crews in Iraq and Syria to repeated artillery blasts, a research team was doing something similar to lab mice at the University of Missouri.

    In a series of tests, the team placed mice a few feet from a lump of C4 explosive that was sized to produce a blast just above the military’s official safety level.

    After the blast, the mice were returned to their cages and started scampering around, apparently unaffected.

    “We were very disappointed — we didn’t see anything abnormal,” said Dr. Zezong Gu, who led the research.

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The fact they still trigger them with a rope is so fucking stupid
    Autoload + remote trigger is sorely needed

  31. 1 month ago
    OP

    But the picture changed over the next few days. Mice instinctively build nests, and researchers use the quality of their nests as a benchmark of well-being. The blasted mice built only ramshackle nests, often leaving them unfinished.

    In later experiments, blasted mice were put through mazes. They made more wrong turns than healthy mice, and sometimes froze, refusing to explore the mazes at all.

    The team then dissected the animals’ brains. At first they found almost no damage.

    “Everything looked fine until we looked at a nano scale,” Dr. Gu said.

    Under an electron microscope, a ravaged neural landscape came into focus. Sheaths of myelin, vital for insulating the biological wiring of the brain, hung in tatters. In key parts of the brain that control emotion and executive function, large numbers of mitochondria — the tiny powerhouses that provide energy for each cell — were dead.

    “It was remarkable — the damage was very widespread,” Dr. Gu said. “And that was just from one explosion.”

    Of course, the brains of mice and humans are very different. Dr. Scott Cota, a Navy captain and brain injury expert, said it was unclear whether the same damage would occur in human brains. Researchers can’t expose humans to damaging blasts, and then dissect them the way they can mice, he said. And techniques are not yet available to detect microscopic trauma in living brains.

    “It’s very hard to study,” Dr. Cota said. “And unfortunately, we can only do it post-mortem at this point.”

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Researchers can’t expose humans to damaging blasts, and then dissect them the way they can mice, he said.

      They can in China.

      Also, can't they do computer modelling or some shit?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Computer modelling isn't a silver bullet. You're basically asking of a software to pull fluid dynamics calculations at a microscopic level to see how the forces of a ballistic pressure wave interact with cells, and then have a model that puts those forces on cell tissues and simulates how they will react. You could have a model where the mitochondria inside a cell survives the blast, but the real tissue shows mitochondrial death inside cells. Have fun trying to find where the model is wrong.
        Many computer models have to be validated by real world testing. This is why we still use wind tunnel tests to validate CFD and do destructive testing of carbon fiber parts because there's like 8 different computer models to calculate composites and you have to pick the one that applies to your situation as they're not all valid in all cases.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Ah, interesting. Thanks.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Also, can't they do computer modelling or some shit?
        You can only model the data you have.

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Curious what sort of toxins are present in the smoke.
    >10,000 artillery rounds
    Breathing in a lot of funny stuff

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Nah. Its the vaccines. The US Army pumps you full of shots. And if you serve overseas in middle east they make you take pills.
      Gun smoke is only deadly when breathed indoors

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Why not both,?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Because his current obsession is vaccines

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Even without toxins they would be inhaling shit tons of dust and sand too

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Nitrogen, lead and copper particulate, partially burned propellants... burning nitrocellulose produces hydrogen cyanide... thankfully, nitrogen dioxide is heavier than air and is therefore mostly a concern for tanks. Sulfur dioxide and ammonia are so irritating to the upper respiratory tract that it's hard to be exposed to critical amounts by accident and not know it, but nobody really knows about the long term effects of very small amounts.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Nitrogen, lead and copper particulate, partially burned propellants... burning nitrocellulose produces hydrogen cyanide... thankfully, nitrogen dioxide is heavier than air and is therefore mostly a concern for tanks. Sulfur dioxide and ammonia are so irritating to the upper respiratory tract that it's hard to be exposed to critical amounts by accident and not know it, but nobody really knows about the long term effects of very small amounts.

      the cope in these comments
      yeah breathing in smoke is bad for you, probably sure to cause problems over the long term, like tobacco use or leaded gas or working in a mine.
      it's not going to make you hallucinate and have panic attacks in less than a year.

      it's the big bang

  33. 1 month ago
    OP

    The artillery gun crews present a rare and valuable chance to understand how blasts affect the brain, but no researchers are tracking them. It’s not clear if anyone in a position to learn from them is even aware that this unique group of combat veterans exists.

    Most of the crew members have drifted out of the military to corners of the country where they continue to quietly grapple with headaches, depression and confusion that they don’t understand.

    Two soldiers who worked side by side on the same gun under Sergeants James and Chatfield have failed to find stability, even years later.

    Andrew Johnson, a tall, strong ammunition loader who stood right behind a cannon for thousands of shots, came home speaking with a noticeable delay, as if on a bad phone line. He was seeing flashes of light he couldn’t explain. He grew suHispanicious of fellow soldiers and stayed isolated in his room. A year after coming home, he tried to overdose with sleeping pills.

    “I can’t even remember what I was dealing with,” Mr. Johnson said in an interview in Jackson, Miss., where he now lives. “I didn’t drink, didn’t smoke. I had a girlfriend. But I just couldn’t function. I had this deep feeling of being all alone.”

  34. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >the military will chew people up and spit them out with zero remorse
    Shocking, I know.
    JP8 exposure has been linked to speech processing disorders, crew members of armored vehicles regularly inhale exhaust and dust particles that cause lung cancer, the water on many military bases is contaminated with heavy metals, oil runoff, waste, and more, and barracks across the DoD have a host of issues from black mold to insect infestations to unclean drinking water. Service members and their commanders have been aware of these issues for decades but very little action is ever taken on them.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Well how can the military afford it's fancy techno toys if they're spending it on good clean bases, etc? They're taking a page out of old Sov/Russian doctrine of just viewing them as expendable. After all, no one forced them to join.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >the water on many military bases is contaminated with heavy metals, oil runoff, waste, and more
      And billions and billions are being paid to families because of it. No profit by the government came from this
      This happened because of incompetence, not willful malice

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Who said anything about profit or willful malice? The government just plain doesn't give a fuck about whether service members get exposed to wacky shit or not, due in part to short-sighted senior officials who would rather allocate funds which could potentially be used to fix issues like black mold in barracks to weapons programs or modernization or what have you, not realizing that the aforementioned issues can and will have wide-ranging effects on retention and recruiting down the line.

  35. 1 month ago
    OP

    The Army started him on therapy for depression and gave him pills to help with nightmares.

    He was transferred to a new unit that knew nothing about his blast exposure in Iraq. He acquired a reputation for being unstable, and was reprimanded for saying inappropriate things to other soldiers and shoving a medic. Last year, the Army forced him out for misconduct and gave him an other-than-honorable discharge.

    He got a string of jobs but lost them. He tried to go to school twice and failed. He went to a veterans’ hospital seeking help, but was turned away because his discharge barred him from receiving care there.

    He is now homeless and sleeps in his car. Recently, he said, he attempted suicide again.

    Earlier this year, he started seeing things. Shadows cast by streetlights seemed to be crawling. At first, there were transient flickers of motion on the edge of his vision. Then came full hallucinations of creatures moving through the darkness.

    “Now they are very close, like at arm’s length, and very real,” he said in a phone call from his car one night. “Honestly, I see it right now, and it’s freaking me out.”

  36. 1 month ago
    OP

    Alex Sabol loaded charges right next to Mr. Johnson in Iraq. He had many advantages that Mr. Johnson never did. He was honorably discharged and given a monthly veterans’ pension. His family pays for a private psychotherapist. Even so, he has struggled.

    After the deployment, he felt as though his moods had gone feral. The Army gave him a diagnosis of anxiety, depression, attention-deficit disorder and P.T.S.D.

    “My friends, my family, I don’t think they understood why I couldn’t hold it together,” he said in an interview.

    He is now in college. He tries to eat well and exercise. On a spring morning, a pair of rock-climbing shoes hung by the door of the light-filled cabin where he lives in the Appalachian Mountains.

    But he has terrifying mood swings. Last year, he started punching himself. In the fall, he found himself in tears in his kitchen, in a push-up position hovering over a butcher knife, unsure why he had an overwhelming urge to plunge it into his heart.

    He is trying to move on from Iraq, but a lurking darkness keeps pulling him off course.

    This spring, he tried to hang himself. His girlfriend cut him down. She has since moved out.

    “I’m scared to death,” he said in an interview at his cabin. “I don’t want to die. And I don’t get why I get into those horrible places.”

  37. 1 month ago
    OP

    And that's it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Thank you, OP. Saved.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Thanks, OP. Good read. I feel for those guys.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Pretty good read.
      Unbelievable how you guys can get fucked by the military. No wonder recruiters can find anyone anymore.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >that's it.
      Thank God, tl;dr. Mental wealings "muh ptsd".
      >i saw a ghost
      Losers.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Thanks anon.

      Why wasn't this identified in WW1 artillery men? Surely they fired comparable amounts of shells

      Where do you think the term "shell shock" comes from?

      From the people under shell fire, not the ones doing the firing, dummy

      It's interesting that when soldiers returmed from WW1 with symptoms like this we called it shell-shock.
      Then everyone decided no, actually it was PTSD from the horrors of war. The explosions were only significant in how they contributed to the atmosphere of fear and adrenaline.
      Now it seems that shell-shock might have been the more accurate term after all.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's probably a combination of TBI from shock wave exposure and emotional scarring from stress and violence. But evolution is funny and made both of these things which are likely to happen in modern warfare cause the same symptoms

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah. It seems like trying to drill down between the two entities - mTBI vs PTSD - is an active challenge for VA psychiatrists and neurologists.
          https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2014.00269/full
          And it's fairly clear that pragmatic concerns on the part of military brass have guided definitions of shell shock or PTSD in the past.
          https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2007.07071180

          Two different things. PTSD is just how your brain handles and reacts to trauma. "Shell shock" is closer to a concussion or TBI on the high end. In the past the two were conflated yes but they are not really the same, that said you could absolutely have a coexisting diagnosis depending on conditions you were in.

          That's the thing though, we don't know exactly what the relationship between the two is.
          How many cases of WW1 shell shock were a reaction to the trauma of war vs how many were the result of the blast effects? How do you draw a line between the two when symptoms overlap and most patients would have been exposed to triggers for both?
          Of more contemporary relevance, what proportion of the symptoms being experienced by current veterans labelled with PTSD are actually mTBI (and vice versa)? Does mTBI induce PTSD or are they overlapping entities with similar symptoms? Most importantly, how should this influence treatment?
          Right now, we just don't know.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            NTA, what flavor of medfag are you

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Emergency physician

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Gay

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I see the line as being between the physical and mental. PTSD is primarily a mental health issue that can lead to physical reactions. Where as what we call Shell Shock is a physical health concern that can have an effect on mental health. That might seem to be the same but the difference is important. PTSD by itself is treatable with meds and specifically coping skills/tools and therapy. Where as a TBI is much more difficult to treat as many of the same treatment options won't be effective as the brain itself is damaged.
            I'm not a psych, and could very well be wrong. But I have worked with both significantly and my experience backs that up for what little it's worth.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Two different things. PTSD is just how your brain handles and reacts to trauma. "Shell shock" is closer to a concussion or TBI on the high end. In the past the two were conflated yes but they are not really the same, that said you could absolutely have a coexisting diagnosis depending on conditions you were in.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Kudos to you for not only linking the article but pasting it all in the thread with screencaps. Good effort. Most others are lazy fucks who can't even bother with a url

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I get crazy bad migraines and then 3 years ago the visual aura I get with them started and never stopped. It was so bad the first few months I almost left law school, docs couldn't do anything, MRI ECG picked up nothing.

      Brain damage is so fucked man. Add to that poverty and loneliness no wonder so many of them are killing themselves. They probably didn't even know it was the forces that did that to them. Same thing as the fucking burn pits. The least they could do is just fucking pay the vets.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The fucked up about this is it's impossible to detect with any modern scanner since it only effect the tendril of neuron cell, not the whole tissue although it will later spread the whole tissue. So most army wouldn't give you anything because there is no proof.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's insidious. Don't even know what's causing it and couldn't fix it if you did. We only figured out CTE like 30 years ago. Makes me wonder what other things are poisoning people without us even knowing. Microplastics will probably be the next lead.

  38. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why wasn't this identified in WW1 artillery men? Surely they fired comparable amounts of shells

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Where do you think the term "shell shock" comes from?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        From the people under shell fire, not the ones doing the firing, dummy

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >those explosions are different from these explosions

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Being shot at is usually more traumatic than being the one doing the shooting.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Psychologically, sure. In terms of the physiological effect of repeated blasts on brain tissue, it's probably pretty similar for a pressure wave of a given power, regardless of the source of said wave.

    • 1 month ago
      OP

      >identified
      ZIS MAN IS A COWARD! EXECUTION BY FIRING SQUAD!

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It was, they would just say things like "well he just hasn't been the same since he came back from the war" because nobody knew shit about TBIs in the 20s

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      1. Probably more artillerymen sharing the firing schedule. Don't forget that mechanization made armies smaller, and the US has tried to take an already "small" army and streamline it even further with these attempts at reducing numbers of boots on the ground.
      2. If you've seen videos of shell shocked WWI soldiers their brains are mush my guy.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >If you've seen videos of shell shocked WWI soldiers their brains are mush
        There’s some on YouTube. Those guys were completely fucked up. They look much worse than the cases we see today. Yet ignoramuses still act like it’s a modern phenomenon and insist it’s because people are softer now.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          NO
          STOP USING LOGIC
          IT WAS VAXX AND FEMINISM
          I DONT WANNA HEAR ANYTHING ELSE
          idk how minorities fit in but get back to me!

  39. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Pressure waves and vibrations/knocks fuck your brain. This is pretty clear
    How do you propose to reduce the damage done to arty crews?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Automatic guns where less people have to be close to the machine while firing. It's really the only option other than no war.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Pressure waves and vibrations/knocks fuck your brain. This is pretty clear
        How do you propose to reduce the damage done to arty crews?

        [...]
        Seems like the only way
        If this also is the case for guns does that mean dampening or smaller calibers might have to be used?

        Additionally, this doesn't solve similar health problems related to the use of infantry based AT weaponry like the carl gustov

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Turn them into turrets and remotely operate them
          Safer for everyone

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          One problem at a time.

          >muh special helmet
          I shoot you in the chest or thigh, but muh helmet
          >muh helmet protects

          You know we're specifically talking about brain injuries here, right?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          CG can make you feel pretty dased when firing rapid but no one will ever shoot as many CG rounds in the amout of time those arty crews did. I doubt handheld
          AT weapons will ever be as big an issue as 10000 155 rounds in 2 months.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Remote Controls, even if it's just a long 100ft wire

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/J3zRh35.png

        Automatic guns where less people have to be close to the machine while firing. It's really the only option other than no war.

        Seems like the only way
        If this also is the case for guns does that mean dampening or smaller calibers might have to be used?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        [...]
        Seems like the only way
        If this also is the case for guns does that mean dampening or smaller calibers might have to be used?

        SPGs, so the crew is behind armor like tankers are. Preferably with autoloaders.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      More focus on guided rocket artillery

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        does this not scramble your brains too
        the i guess rocket ignition is less percussive than artillery shells going iff

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      would a special helmet work or am i retarded?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It might help but it also might have to be huge
        Pressure waves are weird too and i am an idiot. Maybe just the spine vibrating can cuause this as well

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Don't you wear a special helmet because you are retarded?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >would a special helmet work or am i retarded?
        No no that's briliant anon!
        Let's make howitzers turrets the size and shape of a giant helmet!
        I'm calling Raytheon right fucking now!

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Howitzer silencers.

  40. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Muzzle brakers cause brain injury, it's a well known fact. Lightweight howitzers are a meme.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It seems any presure wave can cause damage

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, brain concussion induced by the blast
        >not the related "shell shock" term on chronic stress of WWI

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      wouldnt the solution be to just stand further away when firing?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        autoloaders

  41. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    is there actually any way of shielding crew from this stuff aside from being further away?
    i would assume lighter pieces like the 105 produce less problems
    what about stuff like carl gustavs, don’t they scramble your brains too?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Anything making a boom will fuck your brain it seems
      Even guns from the vibration will do it

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Better helmets, basically.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >muh special helmet
        I shoot you in the chest or thigh, but muh helmet
        >muh helmet protects

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Really not about protection from ballistic attacks but from being subjected to 400 200db air pressure spikes all day as an occupational hazard.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          you don’t need a helmet. you have no brains to protect you fucking idiot

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Spaceballs becomes reality, I can't wait.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Prepare for Ludicrous Speed.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I was wondering if something like a motorcycle helmet would fix this?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Anything that makes a boom will fuck you up

      Lots of SOF guys end up with the exact same stuff described in this article due to constantly practising and setting off breaching charges

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I think the investigation being linked to artillerymen helps isolate the cause though. A lot of SOF guys are also juiced to the gills and careening through structures taking inumerable bumps and bangs along the way on a regular basis.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Hell even 4 unsupressed M4's firing at the same time in a small room is loud as hell. A grenade simulator in what was essentially a walk in closet is really loud.

        Me and the first guy went in and called short room and the guy acting as the grader tossed the grenade simulator in and yanked the door closed on us. That rocked me pretty good.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Build a jelly cast and set the gun in it to soak up the shockwave as it fire.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      A different muzzle device for the gun. Y'know how with rifles a compensator is the most jarring while a supressor is the least? So make some sort of suppressor for the cannons to reduce blast.

  42. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Allahs fighters get struck down by americans lmao

  43. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Humans just don't belong on the battlefield

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Not a modern one at least. High explosives were a mistake.

  44. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >high tension wires just flew over my house
    >I have PTSD and undiagnosed disabilities
    Magnets are majiks, burn the witches.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's not the big knockouts that give you dementia pugilistica, it's the thousands upon thousands of light shots you take between every pro boxing fight during training that do you in

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        No denying Ali was fucked up by tge 1996 torch lighting at the Atlanta Olympics. Am I the only one who watched?

  45. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >artillerymen deployed against ISIS suffering from brain injuries after firing extensive amounts of shells uninterrupted for extended periods of time.
    i thought this was well known? did people think that firing a pistol can damage your hearing but then scaling it up 15x doesn't damage your health?

    there's a reason why the 'safe zone' behind a tank firing is over 50m away and it has a smaller round than 155mm artillery cannons.

    this feels like another case of urbanite liberals discover war is bad and they need to tell the world

  46. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    this thread reeks of

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >talking about problems makes you a subversive agent
      Retard. The only way things get better is by talking about them. Not shoving it under the rug hoping it just goes away.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You are not welcome here.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Look who's fucking talking

  47. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Interesting article, makes me glad that the number of shells we fired was limited during my military service.

    t. tygimies

  48. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why don't they just make artillery suppressors?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Imagine the cost of all the added tax stamps and you see why.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      They have then at some of the training ranges.

  49. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Seems to be rhe work of Chaos demons. It might sound like a LARP but the spiritual realm is absolutely a thing. Sending soldiers who don't have a spiritual force to oppose the evil is sending lambs to the slaughter. The way to fight these demonic entities is through asking God for protection and public chaplain rituals. The Romans knew this and had powerful wards.

  50. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    1/2
    Feel free to call this BS, but I hope someone who's still in (either in the US or Aus) will see it and be able to follow up. I don't have any real contact with anyone still serving.

    In... Idk, 2016 or so? I had a long mess conversation with a guy who would later be the (Ausfag) Principal Ammo Tech Officer while he was the OC of a joint proofing unit. His personal niche is terminal ballistic effects. We were talking about the wounding effects of shockwaves propagated through flesh from the TSC of bullets (Fackler, all that jazz), and basically he told me that there was evidence that even the SPL of small arms muzzle blast (don't remember details, but there were caveats, ie caliber, barrel length, muzzle devices etc) could cause TBI that would mimic PTSD symptoms, and that his intuition was that the evidence for it would eventually bear it out, and that it was the explanation for the PTSD levels from GWOT being out of proportion to the intensity of combat. I expressed extreme skepticism, since widespread exposure to blast effects has been a condition of service since the age of sail without the link being noticed. With us was his 2IC, an ex British fellow, who pointed out that the link was drawn at least a hundred years ago and is evidenced by use of the term "shellshock" along with a basket of symptoms that better match TBI than the psychiatric conditions we now popularly associate with the term (PTSD etc) and segued into humour by offering it as an explanation for why artillery has a reputation for having the stupidest people.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      but are they stupid going in?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Not moreso than some other trades, and only a little bit more than a lot of trades, but they definitely do seem dumber once out in batteries.

        I always figured it was mostly cultural, since it's exhibited by their officers as well (common intelligence criteria with other officers, less self selection into arty), control and discipline is imposed structurally and it's a trade where intelligence in ORs is not particularly important for the output of the capability.

        All of that could also be explained by brain injury from blast (regimented discipline being imposed because gun numbers all got too dumb for self discipline or emergent order to work for as long as cannons have existed resulting in a culture that prioritises it, officers in contemporary times all having to be gun line officers prior to specialisation and therefore being exposed to blast, etc, etc).

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      2/2
      This is worth following up (if you're doing, or soon to do, a Washington or Canberra posting) because it's a huge blind spot in procurement, policy and TTPs.

      Let's say the base risk is 1 in 100 firing sessions for 5.56 from an M16 causing minor concussion-like injury to neurons and axions, but doubles for a short barrel, doubles for a higher caliber, doubles for high rates of fire, doubles for shooting in an enclosed space, doubles if restricted sleep in the weeks before/after slows/limits self healing afterwards. Suddenly we're at 1 in 3, and our odds of having repeated concussion effects (if we fire once every concussion reset period) that we know from other TBI research is where our risk of the brain injury having permanent effects starts to really increase goes from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 9. Suddenly an ordinary range schedule goes from unlikely to cause lasting harm to anyone in a Brigade to likely to cause lasting harm to multiple people per platoon. Obviously these are plucked figures, but the point I'm making is about how risk factors stack.

      Within a generation we will go from slow burning 5.56 from 20in to fast burning 6.8 from 13in (the warshot is the main concern here). If the risks aren't understood ahead of time then people will be hurt, great cost will ultimately be incurred and capability will be diminished.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        1/2
        Feel free to call this BS, but I hope someone who's still in (either in the US or Aus) will see it and be able to follow up. I don't have any real contact with anyone still serving.

        In... Idk, 2016 or so? I had a long mess conversation with a guy who would later be the (Ausfag) Principal Ammo Tech Officer while he was the OC of a joint proofing unit. His personal niche is terminal ballistic effects. We were talking about the wounding effects of shockwaves propagated through flesh from the TSC of bullets (Fackler, all that jazz), and basically he told me that there was evidence that even the SPL of small arms muzzle blast (don't remember details, but there were caveats, ie caliber, barrel length, muzzle devices etc) could cause TBI that would mimic PTSD symptoms, and that his intuition was that the evidence for it would eventually bear it out, and that it was the explanation for the PTSD levels from GWOT being out of proportion to the intensity of combat. I expressed extreme skepticism, since widespread exposure to blast effects has been a condition of service since the age of sail without the link being noticed. With us was his 2IC, an ex British fellow, who pointed out that the link was drawn at least a hundred years ago and is evidenced by use of the term "shellshock" along with a basket of symptoms that better match TBI than the psychiatric conditions we now popularly associate with the term (PTSD etc) and segued into humour by offering it as an explanation for why artillery has a reputation for having the stupidest people.

        I believe it, and it feels like it should be pretty obvious to anyone who's been concussed by an asshole magdumping a brake'd SBR.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It will be suprressed however

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      2/2
      This is worth following up (if you're doing, or soon to do, a Washington or Canberra posting) because it's a huge blind spot in procurement, policy and TTPs.

      Let's say the base risk is 1 in 100 firing sessions for 5.56 from an M16 causing minor concussion-like injury to neurons and axions, but doubles for a short barrel, doubles for a higher caliber, doubles for high rates of fire, doubles for shooting in an enclosed space, doubles if restricted sleep in the weeks before/after slows/limits self healing afterwards. Suddenly we're at 1 in 3, and our odds of having repeated concussion effects (if we fire once every concussion reset period) that we know from other TBI research is where our risk of the brain injury having permanent effects starts to really increase goes from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 9. Suddenly an ordinary range schedule goes from unlikely to cause lasting harm to anyone in a Brigade to likely to cause lasting harm to multiple people per platoon. Obviously these are plucked figures, but the point I'm making is about how risk factors stack.

      Within a generation we will go from slow burning 5.56 from 20in to fast burning 6.8 from 13in (the warshot is the main concern here). If the risks aren't understood ahead of time then people will be hurt, great cost will ultimately be incurred and capability will be diminished.

      That’s a thoughtful post, anon

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Makes sense. All explosions are bad, it's not the poison it's the dose

  51. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Why does all the most fun stuff have to fuck you up 🙁

  52. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >heh

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

  53. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Makes me wonder if pilots are effected by similar vibrations and pressure waves or if their velocity and insulation in the cockpit change the metrics

  54. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Thanks, OP. It's pretty funny reading an article with shitposting intermingled

  55. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    horror stories like this are so common in US mil I am so happy to be neverserved Jesus Christ just look at Camp Lejune and that's in fucking peacetime.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Noncombat roles in decent branches tend to be fine.
      Serves as draft protection anyway as if you are in a skilled non com job they wont stick you on the front unlike the untrained draftees and once you get out you are a Class 4A Exemption (Service requirement already completed) from draft.

  56. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I fired a M72 once, do I have risk of developing TBI or could it have had a negative impact on my cognition?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I think the take away from the article is it would need to non-stop continuous firing to fuckup your brain…

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Is that really true though? Like yeah you get btbi but at that point you're already written off, what the hell happens in between?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Like yeah you get btbi but at that point you're already written off, what the hell happens in between?

          It’s probably not good (like maybe memory issues in old age or higher risk for certain conditions) but Jake LaMotta (boxer from raging bull) managed to live to 95 so the “in between” may be manageable (depending on factors outside your control like genetics).

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >I fired a M72 once, do I have risk of developing TBI or could it have had a negative impact on my cognition?

      Yes but but in same way dropping your phone on your face while browsing /trash/ in bed might cause you develop brain hemorrage, risk is there but it's minimal.

      "Safe" limit for M72 is something like 20 a day, every day. It's the big G you need to worry about

  57. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >being artillery crew gives you TBI
    I wonder how many ukrainians will find out they're fucked by this in 5 years

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Or russian considering the sheer amount of shells they threw by comparision.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Ukrainians aren't fighting mudslimes, and shells actually come flying back. Incoming fire fucks you up much more than outgoing one and that has been a problem for 10 years.

  58. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >interesting

    We've known about this since WWII. Being around explosions physically damages your brain and makes you retarded.

    >get a gigantic cannon
    >bonus points for more than one
    >enclose the area with hesco baskets or dirt
    >shoot rounds continuously for 12 hours a day for a whole year
    >why can't I remember my childhood?

    PTSD is actually misdiagnosed brain damage IMO. They tell you that you are sad because war n stuff and because you are a giant pussy who can't handle killing things. In reality, its because your brain is physically damaged. Army gets to throw their hands up, because there's nothing they can do about soldiers being sad, and we get to keep feeding the meat grinder. Everybody wins. Except FAGs. They get permanent brain damage and commit suicide.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Question:
      I get the theory that consecutive blastwaves from artillery firing might cause brain injuries, but how is it that the grunts show specifically PTSD/depression related symptoms?
      If it is just random brain injury, there should be a wide range of symptoms.

      well obviously brain injury can't explain all PTSD. theres plenty of non-military PTSD caused by events without brain injury

      But just like hearing damage is more likely to cause tinnitus if it occurs under stressful situations, there could be a boosting effect of trauma when accompanied by brain injury, or vise versa. Maybe a shock wave does more damage to a limbic system under high load or maybe a stressed brain is less able to repair damage

      the concussion, the emotional trauma, the sleep deprivation/poor quality, etc is a recipe for neuro-psychological destruction

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The blast overpressure from the shooting side is physical damage to someones brain from the constant hits its taking while shellshock has that plus the mental effects of you are a step from dying for long periods

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          the mental and emotional states are only created by physical states in the brain.
          the damage could be interacting with these physical states to make things worse.
          Maybe a brain under extreme anxiety when damaged favors those pathways when attempting to repair the damage. Essentially, your brains scars (freezes) into a distressed state and neuro-plasticity away from that state is limited.
          these guys probably wouldnt have been exposed to as much emotional trauma, although maybe they received distressing intelligence or BDA reports. I think these are cases of pure brain damage, the dramatic cases being from those who were genetically predisposed to psychosis, bipolar, or MDD.

          but for PTSD generally, imagine sustaining 5-10% of what these guys got in a tour, but concurrent with the damage and recovery, youre in combat or you're grieving a friend or you're securing the site of a terrorist attack.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Ya the pressure given off by the semi-fixed rounds from either 105mm or 155mm, plus the placement of the soldiers themselves ie; the assistant gunner, gunner and atc as example have large differences in the BOP that they might need to be cycled around different spots in a 24hr period

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Anecdotal but I went to college with a vet who had ptsd but never deployed. He was a machine gunner in helicopters. Said the scariest thing that happened to him was during exercises in Poland he was on a humvee and almost blasted some locals who accidentally drove into the war games area. It didn’t really make sense, he always said he has no idea how it happened and to not join the army. I now wonder if firing machine guns in a helicopter will also do this and he just had a bruised brain.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          keep in mind he might have had other experiences in the army that traumatized him that he didnt want to talk about
          as far as small arms and machine guns, i think the problem would be much more widespread if it could result from their use in a peacetime deployment. Of course multiple combats tours would mean more frequent exposure to the weapon. there are other ways to damage your brain as a soldier, chiefly heavy drinking and brawling.

  59. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    This shouldn't shock anyone. We know from football research that routine subconcussive impacts can induce brain injuries just as much as concussions.

    Dudes were subjected to shitloads of them in a short time period.

  60. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Kill your self

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Why?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >t.bootlicking brainwormed vaxcuck homosexual

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Aaaahaha holy shit that one fucking shit really is all you fags have isn’t it?

  61. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Karmic pay back for the evil you have done
    Karmic pay back for the evil you have done Karmic pay back for the evil you have done Karmic pay back for the evil you have done Karmic pay back

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >le isis is le ebic heckerino good boys

  62. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Has anyone considered that these guys are legitimately being haunted by the spirits of the people they’ve killed?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous
  63. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  64. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Question:
    I get the theory that consecutive blastwaves from artillery firing might cause brain injuries, but how is it that the grunts show specifically PTSD/depression related symptoms?
    If it is just random brain injury, there should be a wide range of symptoms.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      it's not random brain injury, it's repeated concussive injury

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Different parts of the brain being damaged can lead to different issues. You could have trouble with emotions, motor control, memory, higher thinking, poor regulation skills.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >If it is just random brain injury, there should be a wide range of symptoms.
      Not really.

      The symptoms of a brain injury are dependent on the structures being damaged.
      If you had a group of grunts all showing a variety of different symptoms then it would imply that different structures are being damaged - one has X symptoms because the frontal lobe was damaged by shrapnel to the front of the head, another has Y symptoms because the temporal lobe was damaged by the blast wave smacking the side of his head into a wall, etc.
      A blast wave on the other hand is transmitted through the entire skull, putting the entire structure at risk of a diffuse injury. In this case the symptoms are not dependent on what area was damaged but on what structures within the brain are most vulnerable. It seems very plausible that the most sophisticated parts of the brain - those areas governing reasoning, memory, mood and executive functioning - would be the most finely tuned and thus the first to show signs of damage.

      The blast wave is transmitted through the entire brain

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      > but how is it that the grunts show specifically PTSD/depression related symptoms?
      If it is just random brain injury, there should be a wide range of symptoms.

      I assume the struggles with attention and memory aggravate the depression

  65. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    TBIs are no joke.

    For those who want to know a bit more in context of whether pot can help:

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/canadian-journal-of-neurological-sciences/article/cannabis-in-the-treatment-of-traumatic-brain-injury-a-primer-for-clinicians/CFE33D823A97A1FF1089EC97859041DE

  66. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Headquarters Marine Corps (.mil)
    https://www.hqmc.marines.mil › ...PDF
    Blast Overpressure Effects, its something known about and is in the arty TM

  67. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Excellent cautionary tale on why you don't become a zogbot. And if you do because there's no other choice, do some sit on your ass job like computer dork or egg counter

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Stop being a bitch

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Sorry Ramirez

  68. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The shock wave is mostly transmitted from the end of the barrel, not the breech, right? Do tankers and SPG crew experience the same effects?

  69. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Interesting read thx

  70. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Receiving blast force shockwaves over and over has been known for over 100 years to cause neurological issues. WW1 authorities called it shell shock where it was mixed with the PTSD of the trenches but we've had plenty of studies of it from soldiers who suffered brain injuries due to shockwaves in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    >https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/150217-shell-shock-ptsd-tbi-world-war-one-ied-veterans-administration-science

  71. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Join the US Army
    >Get wounded
    >Dishonorably discharged because of your wounds
    >Shit life, lose everything
    >have a nice day

    https://www.goarmy.com
    Be All You Can Be.

  72. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I am certain that the military could reliably prove that those guys were brain damaged when they showed up at MEPS in the first place.

  73. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >secret new war
    >strange wound
    >the war was never secret or unknown and the wounds make perspective sense

  74. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Fucked up that an other-than-honorable for shit you did after coming home invalidates your healthcare for shit that happened to you while deployed. Especially in these cases where it sure seems like the offending behavior was largely induced by the service related injuries.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >not my problem
      >just used up goods
      >toss em in the streets
      That's how this government views American lives
      Another user pointed out the neglected barracks, same logic
      Consider the morality of a government who is fine with blowing up kids in Palestine
      Who is fine with selling out the American people for a genocide of Christians in the Holy Land
      You have to be very mentally strong to face an evil like that and win, God puts us through things for a reason

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >That's how this government views American lives

        Look at the public schools and hospitals as well, the ruling class stopped caring about us after integration and the Civil Rights Movement. They send their kids to private schools, not public schools. In many cases, they don't even view as humans, but subhumans.

        >be humans(White people)
        >practice inoculation for 300 odd years
        >be you(brown)
        >thinks you HAVE to be jabbed with a special blend of retrovirus that can THEORETICALLY inoculte you(almost 10% effective guys!!)
        No

        You see what I mean, godless racists like this who dehumanize our people in Christ. Our countrymen, even those who gave their lives. They don't care about us. At best, we are pawns for their dirty zionist wars. The solution is the Revolution. That is our hope as Patriots.

  75. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    No it's not vaccines, no it's not concussions and no it's not PTSD. ITS ACTUAL GHOSTS. ALPHA BATTERY IS CURSED, THEIR GUNS AWOKE AN ANCIENT POWER THAT WAS ASLEEP FOR 10000 YEAR AND NOW THEY'VE BROUGHT IT BACK TO THE US

  76. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >injuries after firing extensive amounts of shells uninterrupted for extended periods of time.
    I found the problem.

  77. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >deployed against ISIS
    Deployed against an Iranian land route to Syria*. FTFY

  78. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    One thing to keep in mind it takes a absolute fuck ton of rounds in short periods of time to cause lasting damage, for example our battery a couple years back shot over 1300 collectively in like 5 or so hours

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      how many ghosts do you see on a daily basis?

  79. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    the solution is to only hire people with no supernatural beliefs as artillerymen
    no more ghots
    problem solved

  80. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    god damn americans will turn anything into their own personal tragedy

  81. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    overpressure is overpressure

    i'd get headaches from firing the 84mm RR several times in a row. helmets and ears do help.

  82. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >getting micro concussions day-in, day-out for months to years from firing artillery makes people end up with brain damage
    How the fuck did no one in the military figure this out?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      they always conflate what you do in training to what you do with war shots. there's nothing too special about what this article is mentioning. it's special when you compare it to training, though.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        And what the fuck has this got to do with my post?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          it's describes why they're dumbfounded that these things happen. all of the studies done on damage from medium and large caliber weapons is done in controlled environments that mimic training.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            OK sure.
            But you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that firing 10 rounds and be done for the day isn't the same as firing 100s of rounds a day for a few months straight.
            You simply cannot extrapolate these extremes

            And that's what my original question refers to. How the fuck did no one in the military figure out that sitting in the pressure wave of a continuously firing artillery is bad for a person?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              You wont really notice a change in mental functioning until they get back to a more safe enviro, home, and that sort of long period simulation under deployed conditions wont happen for training

            • 1 month ago
              OP

              Oh they know anon, they just don't care.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                i think they're just dumb, really. how long did it take for people to take hearing protection seriously with small arms?

                Ukrainians aren't fighting mudslimes, and shells actually come flying back. Incoming fire fucks you up much more than outgoing one and that has been a problem for 10 years.

                yep, they have more immediate worries at the moment than pablos ghosts.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              The US military (and likely most militaries) have a issue with “out of sight, out of mind”. I could certainly see this sort of thing being brought up in some meeting about tasks and expenditure and people deciding that the cost effectiveness of opening this can of worms and having to restructure certain elements of training and doctrine would do more harm than buying some more tanks or an aircraft carrier.
              Plus there’s still the cancer of boomer fuddlore bleeding down through the aging (and likely brain damaged) careerist officer corps.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              why dont soldiers just build a simple barricade with sandbags and duck behind that, or dig a small trench and jump in that while the gun is fired each time? most of the shockwave would pass over them instead of through them. itsnot like these are hasty positions. so why couldnt they just build little foxholes or some shit to avoid the pressure wave?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Because the fire rate of the gun at that point would be a quarter of its sustained rate of fire and like a tenth of its max rate of fire

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >How the fuck did no one in the military figure this out?
      where do you think the promoted leadership at the top came from?

  83. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Not surprised at all.
    Learning about TBIs killed all my enjoyment of boxing and MMA.
    There's no safe way to get your brain rattled. It's all bad and the only arguments people have in favor of activities that cause brain injury are survivor bias, "but muh grandpappy did x and he was fine," and "lol, stop being a pussy."

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Survivorship bias
      It’s all so fucking tiresome.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Bit more of an PrepHole post but could my sports car with its stiff as fuck bouncy ride and sometimes jerky shifting be rattling and rocking my brain in a way that could be damaging? It's sure as hell uncomfortable at times but idk if the jolts reach brain damage status.

  84. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >brain injuries
    lmao sciencecel cope. This is Islamic black magic, possibly weaponized Jinns. The only counter is outfitting every unit with an etsy witch and having tactical yoga moms cleans the barracks with sage.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >The only counter is outfitting every unit with an etsy witch
      >Implying they can successfully battle Allah on the astral plane
      Fool.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Allah is a demon and can be defeated by proper tactics. I have successfully banished his cultists from some internet forums simply by telling them that my big white American phallus coomed on his prophet’s beard, forcing them against their will to visualize that image and weakening the demon’s powers.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        As long as you don't try and face Allah alone, you should be fine.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Have we tried getting the Jinns to defect? They do have free will after all.

  85. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Look at those millions of guys in WWI firing artillery - including fuck huge artillery - constantly for 4 years. Artillery in the old days didn't have muzzle brakes. Over time, those muzzle brakes have become more and more "effective". Get rid of muzzle brakes on moderm artillery and the brain injuries go away, simple as.

    This isn't complicated.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It is complicated, Anon. This article is dealing with a specific case involving artillery but there’s a myriad of white-papers, analytics, and other articles that indicate similar situations with saturation of small arms fire in enclosed spaces, grenade usage, use of AT weaponry, etc. Brain doesn’t like being near explosions. Sonic pressure waves are a weapon to surpass Metal Gear.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Do you know why Fascist and Communist, 2 dumbest ideology somehow become popular in Europe after WW1? Now you know.

  86. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >be zogbot
    >act shocked when there are consequences
    Blimey

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Back to your cope threads.

  87. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >artillerymen somehow get cursed by demolishing ancient cities in the mideast
    >sciencegoys feel the need to make up entirely new concepts to ~~*scientifically*~~ explain this
    In English, doc.
    It's a haunting. Probably demonic in nature and linked to djinn. The creatures the guy living out of his car sees in the dark are likely ghouls attached to his soul like leeches.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >In English, doc.
      pablo wasn't wearing his helmet and muffs when working on the m777.

  88. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >very loud noises rattle your brain
    >this is somehow "strange"" and "new" to OP
    I guess OP already has brain damage.

    Seriously, you're a moron if this wasn't obvious to you already.

    • 1 month ago
      OP

      It's the title of the article. Fucking retard.

  89. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    tldr westerners are pussies

  90. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Wouldn't the concussive blast be almost neglible in an SPG like the M109?
    The enclosed compartment should shield the gun crew

  91. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Bullshit, if this were true, half of Russian army would be retarded schizoids.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You're implying half of them aren't?

  92. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    the amount of samefag
    >evil magic
    >heckin pussies
    posters itt is out of control

  93. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Should I drop the college and go to the Ukraine?

  94. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >A concussive force can cause concussion in humans
    Hold your fucking horses how can this be??

  95. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    So how fucked are Ukrainian M777 gunners? They have to had put up similar volumes of fire over the last year+

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      probably fucked

      those who've been under artillery bombardment, had he hit nearby, or been hit with he in a vehicle will also be fucked

  96. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    So? It's the army. They don't take you in and want to treat you with cotton gloves and silk pillows. You're meat for the machine, as disposable as an artillery barrel.

  97. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >militaries: Yeah, you can only fire 4-6 rounds a day from the Gustaf because it will shake your brain apart
    >militaries: Go ahead and fire hundreds of charge 7 from that tube next to you
    The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      i fired 7 84mm rounds in about 5 minutes. i had one hell of a headache for a few days and couldn't sleep that night.

  98. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I kinda dislike this article, its about something real important and its written like its for idiots with very simplistic, basic-level of english.

  99. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >war hurts people regardless of who they are and what they do
    it's almost like you're all a bunch of retard homosexuals or something. the sheer amount of fags trying to deny that fucking cannons hurt you is mind boggling and you should all have a nice day.

  100. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >WhY aRe ReCrUiTmEnT nUmBeRs So LoW?!?!?!
    >Could it be the fucked up shit we put people through then when they come home their family, friends, neighbors, community see what we do to them and not help?
    >Nah, must be that damn Army ad with the girl who has two Moms
    What if it's both, dum dum?

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