Yes. .40 S&W kicks my ass and is a lot slower to get follow up shots. The added power of .40 is not going to get you a one shot stop so it’s a bit pointless in most scenarios, the more consistent penetration and barrier blindness does make it more appealing on paper.
People are gravitating towards ported and compensated carry guns, a ported 40 could make a lot more use of the ports due to the higher chamber pressure.
.40 was used by like every department in the United States
>.40 was used by like every department in the United States
I wonder what the science was behind that. If I ran a police department I would require the officers to run 9mm handguns. 9mm is easiest to handle and can get the job done.
Miami Dade where a 9mm JHP did not have sufficient penetration to stop a threat who continued to fight and kill FBI agents. 10mm auto was born, it was too much for female and undertrained agents, 10mm auto was then downloaded to something manageable (still potent), and S&W took that and then shortened the case to making it possible to make .40 guns the same size as 9mm guns.
Miami Dade where a 9mm JHP did not have sufficient penetration to stop a threat who continued to fight and kill FBI agents. 10mm auto was born, it was too much for female and undertrained agents, 10mm auto was then downloaded to something manageable (still potent), and S&W took that and then shortened the case to making it possible to make .40 guns the same size as 9mm guns.
I hear 10mm is difficult for most people to handle without sufficient training. For example what happens to our brother here. He's afraid of the 10mm: https://youtu.be/NsSKpykmowc
I only own .22lr at the moment but I'm very tempted to jump to a 10mm as a primary and train on it until I can control the recoil. I don't know if my plan will work though.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Your plan won’t.
Just buy a lot of guns that you think are cool.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Same anon that posted the video.
I am pro 9mm and 10mm. I own several of both.
I think the recoil of 10mm is overstated. I find that's usually the opinion of those who don't shoot their weapons enough.
Does it take getting used to? Yeah. But its no worse than a full sized 357 magnum revolver. If anything its more tame. Cops used to carry 357 mag revolvers all the time back in the day and you don't hear stories of them complaining.
Having said that. I do believe the story about FBI qual scores dropping with 10mm. Most cops dont shoot enough. And the feds I've talked to lead to me to believe the FBI is no different. Most cant shoot for shit. The solution isn't getting the right gun though. They need to make their agents spend more time at the range.
A better next caliber is 9mm. If for the only reason because its cheaper so you can afford to shoot a lot more.
I was explaining the reasoning, Paul Harrel actually recreates the miami Dade shot with a modern 9mm JHP, stopping just short of the heart of his simulated arm then through chest shot. Police pistols 9mm be .40 I think was the video.
9mm is not good enough across the board >
https://i.imgur.com/V0yYJ8o.jpg
, chose your ammo wisely
https://i.imgur.com/ToNKwgC.jpg
Ah yes, the penetration meme, what a classic
Lemme guess, that thick coat'll really take the brunt of that hail of 9mm projectiles, right?
Thick coat helps penetration if you read the chart, the clothing lessens hollow point expansion and increases penetration,
>357sig it has some history of being used by secret service and such.
Every agency and police force that adopted .357 SIG dropped it within 3 years. Most of them, the FBI and Secret Service as specific examples, went back to 9mm. It's more or less impossible to find anyone that still uses .357 SIG. It's a dead meme, an abortion that nobody ever needed and even SIG has dropped support for their failed downie cartridge.
Shooter comes into church in texas, gets confronted immediately. he kills one guy who was too slow to draw but then gets domed by a boomer. as the footage goes on you can see that several of the church goers were strapped
Yes, .40 is a patrician round. Watch how the 9mmittor recoils when you use his arguments for .30 sc. He only cares about muh cheap and doesn't even practice with loadings that come close to .40. He just larps and stores some defensive ammo in a magazine, never to feel the joy of a primer strike.
.40 S&W won't retire until CA Handgun Roster goes away
>It is over for .40S&W since people realized 10mm is a thing.
10mm was a thing before .40 was, and didn't stop .40 from taking off the way it did for the past several decades. Those that just "realized that 10mm was a thing" are usually fad chasers that let trends dictate their loadout.
Not one proofs of a .40 owner, sad. >12+1 rounds >400+ft/lb on fmj/hollow point 160gr-180gr >500+ft/lb in gucci hornady,underwood, without needing to be "+p+" >surpasses .45&.45+p >even if 9+p can match .40 still bigger boolet
And anecdotally I always had access to ammo during the padnemic, while I always seen 9&.45 out or more expensive.
>9+p is its own category while messured agaiant standard .40 loadings
Pic related 150gr&1300 underwood is 560ft/lb,
The 155&165gr Hornady are 480&510 ft/lb at muzzle of a 4" barrell.
Any coincidental 9+p+ rounds outperforming any .40 round is still a smaller bullet and a special loading while .40 can be hand loaded batter than the counterpart bubbu'd 9+p+p+p+p+++
Pic related
>ftlbs >in a handgun >it has a whole 500 ftlbs
Literally meaningless, well, outside of meaning more recoil. Handgun rounds at reasonably typical velocity are hole punches.
The 155 gr hits at 480 at 1180 fps
The 165 gr hits at 510 at 1180
Same Hornady loads, 10 bullet grain weight increase, 30average ft/lb increase in energy transfer.
Ft/lb does matter WITH velocity, not instead of you fucking ignorant shitbag.
lmao ok, sure. How exactly does the maybe 100ftlbs make a meaningful difference in this instance? Id love to see a well sourced response. >inb4 CO&CO schizoposting
The 155 gr hits at 480 at 1180 fps
The 165 gr hits at 510 at 1180
Same Hornady loads, 10 bullet grain weight increase, 30average ft/lb increase in energy transfer.
Ft/lb does matter WITH velocity, not instead of you fucking ignorant shitbag.
> "better"
Stop being an ignorant shithead and use actual words with actual meanings. Describe what is meant by "better" and the exact circumstances.
[...]
[...]
ballistics performance:
9mm P+ is slightly more powerful than .40 S&W. It's so close that it's not worth trying to measure the difference unless you're some sort of science geek doing it for the autism of it. It matters even less for any practical, real life situation. Regular, plain vanilla 9mm underperforms below .40 S&W by about 20%, maybe ~18% if you crunch the science autism numbers.
capacity:
9mm puts more murder bullets in the same space, and the same number of murder bullets weigh less than .40 murder bullets. If you use 9mm P+, you can fit maybe 12 or 13 bullets into a magazine of the same volume as .40, which will hold about 10.
other metrics:
What the fucking ever. Do your own fucking homework.
Screencap this reply and respond to every other fucking retard that floods the board with this shitheaded stupid spam instead of obeying the fucking rules and using the general for this bullshit.
It's an incredibly similar round ballistically to 9mm, just with less capacity and availability. I handle the recoil just fine, it's just that I'd rather have the extra couple rounds 9mm snags you than the .40
Yup, seems pretty similar to me.
Not saying they're identical, just that they're too similar to really warrant the decrease in capacity. I get that's a subjective take, it's just what I've come to personally
>9+p is its own category while messured agaiant standard .40 loadings
Pic related 150gr&1300 underwood is 560ft/lb,
The 155&165gr Hornady are 480&510 ft/lb at muzzle of a 4" barrell.
Any coincidental 9+p+ rounds outperforming any .40 round is still a smaller bullet and a special loading while .40 can be hand loaded batter than the counterpart bubbu'd 9+p+p+p+p+++
Pic related
>have X wrist strength >ergo can shoot 9mm faster than .40 because your wrist strength doesnt change depending on what caliber youre shooting >.40 makes .045" wider holes >shockingly a .045" wider hole doesnt change effect on target >more holes does though >you can put more holes in a target per unit of time with 9mm than .40
Its pretty simple tbqh, an extra 20th of one inch in wound diameter doesnt really do anything, more holes does.
Wound diameter doesn’t mean shit, only thing that matter is penetration. Which .40 propels a heavier bullet faster, sure we could all use ball and not have to worry about hollow point expansion retarding penetration but it’s nice to be courteous to bystanders and whatever else is behind your target
This was a reasonable concern for agencies involved in lots of OISs involving vehicle barriers back in the 90s and 00s. These days if youre worried about that sort of thing then there are plenty of adequately performing 9mm projectiles that do just as well. this is why the vast majority of agencies that used to issue .40 have switched over to moderately expanding robustly designed 9mm loads instead.
> Wound diameter doesn’t mean shit, only thing that matter is penetration.
So your position is that a single gamma ray (which will go straight through your body) is as effective at stopping a threat as 9x19?
No but a .22 lr/5.7 though the heart is just effective as 9mm through the heart
The round obviously must be able to do enough damage to whatever organ it penetrates. That was assumed dick wad. Expansion, temporary cavity, wound volume, don’t kill, bloodloss does but that can take a while. Penetration of vital organs do incapacitate and kill.
Shot placement and the penetration to use that shot placement is the only things that matter.
>9mm is way better than .40
No, it's not. It's actually a bit worse, but the reduced recoil and additional capacity offset that minor shortcoming many times over.
I actually really like .40 but haven't seen many of these threads since the FBI dropped it in favor of 9mm.
With the popularity of micro 9's, I don't see .40 making any kind of comeback and 9mm being just as good against people, there's no reason to go .40 in a midsize gun either. However, if you did what would you get?
.40 gives you about 30% more energy and better barrier penetration with a slight cost to capacity. I don't personally feel that the recoil is any more difficult to control in a large enough gun and actually find the sharper recoil impulse to be a benefit to my shooting though I have no idea why.
The biggest downsides is that it's hard on some guns and costs more to shoot. I just stick with 9mm for the practicality across platforms.
It's cheaper and easier to shoot and available in more platforms, which are all desirable qualities that might make it "better" for some or even most people, but generally when people talk about one self-defense caliber being "better" than another they're talking about terminal ballistics, and in that regard 9mm can barely manage to be "not significantly worse" than .40 S&W (if you ignore the results of any shooting where the bullet struck a bone before reaching a vital organ and compare the best 9mm loads with average or subpar .40 ones)
It's interesting these two. From my investigation, the 9mm and 45ACP have more in common than .40 and 9mm. The 40 is typically under-powered, but my hand-loads are quite powerful -- closer to 10mm. The .40 has better balistrics for barrier penetration, and lastly, the 9mm +p, +p+ is just as rough on their platforms as a Hispanicy .40. Love the straight walled .40. Love the 10mm.
It's cheaper without a meaningful performance difference but the guys who don't have to care about money still use 9mm due to a wider loading variety, availability and other reasons.
>"X used to kill people just fine"
grug agree
thunder stick overrated, sharp rock is fine
Cartridge ammunition had many wonderful benefits but lethality on point of impact was not one of them, lead balls did NASTY things to humans, FMJ is a downgrade and even JHP is a cope
FMJ penetrates better which is the whole point of wrapping the lead in copper (so that it *doesn't* squish), and hollowpoints are safety rounds meant to keep bystanders from harm, (you) are retarded
>advocates stopping power of FMJ >calls anyone else retarded
Literally every revolution in bullet design in the last century has been attempting to answer the question "How do we make this less shitty than FMJ"
.40 has the mag capacity of a 10mm with the energy of a Hispanicy 9mm.
So you can't cram 17 rounds in it like a cz75, nor do you get the raw power of the 10mm, so what is it's purpose?
It's mediocre on all fronts.
>assault rifles are bad because they're almost as big and heavy as a real rifle but only as powerful as a shit-hot pistol cartridge
.40 S&W gives you all the power you realistically need in a duty gun and most of the magazine capacity of a 9mm without the bulk of a gun big enough for .45 ACP or 10mm Auto
Also, .40 S&W is barely 100 fps behind .357 Mag in 15X gr loads and only gets more momentous from there, while 9mm needs Bubba's extra-Hispanicy ++P++ handloads to even match 125gr .357, so saying it has the energy of "Hispanicy 9mm" is disingenuous at best
40S&W is a man’s caliber. 9mm is for low T beta males trying to compensate for their womanlike grip strength.
Would you rather shoot a caliber made by cuck Germans that lost WW2, or 40S&W which was made by the greatest country on earth? My choice is quite clear.
FBI and U.S. shoot some wack +P 135gr and +p 147gr loadings. You can buy the same meme tip bullets in 180gr .40 for the same velocities and better performance. Comfy. Try getting cheap range ammo in those 9mm loadings.
.40 might have more muzzle energy, but shot placement is far more important in a self-defense situation. Everyone likes to larp and pretend that they would be John Wick in a shooting, but the reality is: >You are going to be more stressed than you've ever been in your entire life >You will lose your fine motor controls >You will revert back to your lowest level of training >You probably won't get all of your shots center mass or on vitals >It will be unlike all your range trips, all your competition shooting, and all your encounters with hostile wildlife
Given the above, I'd choose an increase in hit probability with increased magazine capacity any day of the week. 9mm is a compromise between power and capacity.
the added power is like adding 10lbs on a 1h mace to kill guys better. Yeah it'll kill them better, but the regular mace kills people just fine, and you can swing it much easier.
if you want a big slap your cock on the counter and rattle the plates in the cabinet round to kill boars or bears with, just go with 10mm
9mm was never better than .40 and is still not better than .40, .40 accomplishes what it set out to achieve. That's to be 10-15% better than 9mm. That comes with tradeoffs, you lose 2 rounds if you don't extend your mags, and increased recoil (I've never been able to notice the difference). Available rounds have improved so 9mm is now 10-15% better than it was, so everyone just switched back to 9mm. .40 is still better because it's now 10-15% better than it was.
.357sig beat both of them slightly but never really took off. Very few agencies used it and most have also switched to 9mm. It also came with its own tradeoffs, one of them being reliability issues. .45 was always a fat slow piece of shit. 10mm still blows all of them out of the water. It's a round that's actually worth the extra recoil.
Thr way I see it, if you think 9mm is inadequate (it ain't) then just get a 10mm to shut yourself up. Once you shoot the thing you'll never worry about it not having enough power. If you need to shrink the size of your gun, 9mm is the way to go for commonality's sake and it performs well in small guns. If you just have to pretend like you need more power, .40 fits in smaller guns as well but the recoil will be more intense. It's also rapidly losing commonality so price may go up and some stores may stop carrying it.
>Are guns even being made in 40 s&w anymore?
But seriously, I care about cost and capacity more than power. If 5.7mm was as cheap as 9mm I'd carry that.
40cal is pretty neat ngl. Good penetration through barriers and good expansion while maintaining decent capacity. The upper ends definitely push what I can shoot quickly and accurately but 155gr at 1250 fps is impressive. If it weren't for price, I'd probably shoot it more but I'd probably still carry 9mm because I can shoot it noticeably faster accurately. I've never had anyone shoot 40 that could come close to out scoring me with 9mm.
Now post .45
Imagine being drunk in a bar and your the 9mm talking shit to the .45
My GF says size doesn't matter
I love shooting 45 because the recoil is so mellow and pushy. I feel like a better shot than i really am with it
Handgun caliber doesn't matter. One shoot should whatever it most confidence with.
i'm in the camp of 9mm > 357sig > 45
.40 is just a waste of time. at least with 357sig it has some history of being used by secret service and such.
Yes. .40 S&W kicks my ass and is a lot slower to get follow up shots. The added power of .40 is not going to get you a one shot stop so it’s a bit pointless in most scenarios, the more consistent penetration and barrier blindness does make it more appealing on paper.
People are gravitating towards ported and compensated carry guns, a ported 40 could make a lot more use of the ports due to the higher chamber pressure.
.40 was used by like every department in the United States
No, religion will
>.40 was used by like every department in the United States
I wonder what the science was behind that. If I ran a police department I would require the officers to run 9mm handguns. 9mm is easiest to handle and can get the job done.
boomers had strength that was probably twice what millennials and zoomers are capable of so they didnt care about recoil
Miami Dade where a 9mm JHP did not have sufficient penetration to stop a threat who continued to fight and kill FBI agents. 10mm auto was born, it was too much for female and undertrained agents, 10mm auto was then downloaded to something manageable (still potent), and S&W took that and then shortened the case to making it possible to make .40 guns the same size as 9mm guns.
Wasn't the point of the changes made because of the miami dade shooting that the cops were using six shot revolvers while the crooks had semi autos?
Multiple agents were armed with 9mm automatics. Some expending 3 magazines in the gun fight.
It wasn't 9mm's fault. It was incompetent feds.
But even if it was, modern 9mm JHP is much better than it was in the 80's anyways.
Still, we got 10mm out of it which. So that's a plus.
I hear 10mm is difficult for most people to handle without sufficient training. For example what happens to our brother here. He's afraid of the 10mm: https://youtu.be/NsSKpykmowc
I only own .22lr at the moment but I'm very tempted to jump to a 10mm as a primary and train on it until I can control the recoil. I don't know if my plan will work though.
Your plan won’t.
Just buy a lot of guns that you think are cool.
Same anon that posted the video.
I am pro 9mm and 10mm. I own several of both.
I think the recoil of 10mm is overstated. I find that's usually the opinion of those who don't shoot their weapons enough.
Does it take getting used to? Yeah. But its no worse than a full sized 357 magnum revolver. If anything its more tame. Cops used to carry 357 mag revolvers all the time back in the day and you don't hear stories of them complaining.
Having said that. I do believe the story about FBI qual scores dropping with 10mm. Most cops dont shoot enough. And the feds I've talked to lead to me to believe the FBI is no different. Most cant shoot for shit. The solution isn't getting the right gun though. They need to make their agents spend more time at the range.
A better next caliber is 9mm. If for the only reason because its cheaper so you can afford to shoot a lot more.
I was explaining the reasoning, Paul Harrel actually recreates the miami Dade shot with a modern 9mm JHP, stopping just short of the heart of his simulated arm then through chest shot. Police pistols 9mm be .40 I think was the video.
9mm is not good enough across the board >
, chose your ammo wisely
Thick coat helps penetration if you read the chart, the clothing lessens hollow point expansion and increases penetration,
You think there's science to those decisions?
Astroturfing unironically
>357sig it has some history of being used by secret service and such.
Every agency and police force that adopted .357 SIG dropped it within 3 years. Most of them, the FBI and Secret Service as specific examples, went back to 9mm. It's more or less impossible to find anyone that still uses .357 SIG. It's a dead meme, an abortion that nobody ever needed and even SIG has dropped support for their failed downie cartridge.
1 shot
1 kill
357 sig
Shot placement.
Sig doesn't even make a gun in 357 sig anymore.
But they do make 2 in 10mm.
What happened here?
some boomer with a .357 Sig domed some would-be mass shooter before he had a chance to make the news
Well I can see that. Where was that?
That guy drawing his gun in slow mo while the other guy already points his gun at him. WHY?
probably thought he talked down the guy so that he could get a shot in. really the shooter should have been lit up the minute that he was distracted
he thought he was the Arizona Ranger but he made one fatal slip
>watch me get an heroed with this one weird trick
Shooter comes into church in texas, gets confronted immediately. he kills one guy who was too slow to draw but then gets domed by a boomer. as the footage goes on you can see that several of the church goers were strapped
Ty Anon
Pretty sure the VA State Police still use .357 Sig.
>357sig it has some history of being used by secret service and such.
how many kills did the Secret Service have with .357 SIG?
Unironically, though. Yes. It is over for .40S&W since people realized 10mm is a thing.
Yes, .40 is a patrician round. Watch how the 9mmittor recoils when you use his arguments for .30 sc. He only cares about muh cheap and doesn't even practice with loadings that come close to .40. He just larps and stores some defensive ammo in a magazine, never to feel the joy of a primer strike.
.40 S&W won't retire until CA Handgun Roster goes away
>It is over for .40S&W since people realized 10mm is a thing.
10mm was a thing before .40 was, and didn't stop .40 from taking off the way it did for the past several decades. Those that just "realized that 10mm was a thing" are usually fad chasers that let trends dictate their loadout.
Nah they just recognize that downloading 10mm is a waste of time. Be a man, buy a 10mm.
>10mm.
Would that stop a school shooter?
Not one proofs of a .40 owner, sad.
>12+1 rounds
>400+ft/lb on fmj/hollow point 160gr-180gr
>500+ft/lb in gucci hornady,underwood, without needing to be "+p+"
>surpasses .45&.45+p
>even if 9+p can match .40 still bigger boolet
And anecdotally I always had access to ammo during the padnemic, while I always seen 9&.45 out or more expensive.
>ftlbs
>in a handgun
>it has a whole 500 ftlbs
Literally meaningless, well, outside of meaning more recoil. Handgun rounds at reasonably typical velocity are hole punches.
Read a book moron
lmao ok, sure. How exactly does the maybe 100ftlbs make a meaningful difference in this instance? Id love to see a well sourced response.
>inb4 CO&CO schizoposting
9mm JHP stops short
.40 JHP penetrates the heart
?t=846
>a single load did X so the whole caliber does X
retarded
No you didnt.
I already gave a wells sourced response and posted guns and ammo, your just a shitass with zoomer language. I already won.
The 155 gr hits at 480 at 1180 fps
The 165 gr hits at 510 at 1180
Same Hornady loads, 10 bullet grain weight increase, 30average ft/lb increase in energy transfer.
Ft/lb does matter WITH velocity, not instead of you fucking ignorant shitbag.
> "better"
Stop being an ignorant shithead and use actual words with actual meanings. Describe what is meant by "better" and the exact circumstances.
ballistics performance:
9mm P+ is slightly more powerful than .40 S&W. It's so close that it's not worth trying to measure the difference unless you're some sort of science geek doing it for the autism of it. It matters even less for any practical, real life situation. Regular, plain vanilla 9mm underperforms below .40 S&W by about 20%, maybe ~18% if you crunch the science autism numbers.
capacity:
9mm puts more murder bullets in the same space, and the same number of murder bullets weigh less than .40 murder bullets. If you use 9mm P+, you can fit maybe 12 or 13 bullets into a magazine of the same volume as .40, which will hold about 10.
other metrics:
What the fucking ever. Do your own fucking homework.
Screencap this reply and respond to every other fucking retard that floods the board with this shitheaded stupid spam instead of obeying the fucking rules and using the general for this bullshit.
Now fuck the Hell off.
It's an incredibly similar round ballistically to 9mm, just with less capacity and availability. I handle the recoil just fine, it's just that I'd rather have the extra couple rounds 9mm snags you than the .40
Yup, seems pretty similar to me.
Not saying they're identical, just that they're too similar to really warrant the decrease in capacity. I get that's a subjective take, it's just what I've come to personally
Red means insufficient penetration
Ah yes, the penetration meme, what a classic
Lemme guess, that thick coat'll really take the brunt of that hail of 9mm projectiles, right?
>pic
so carrying HST +p .45 acp is the way to go
>9+p is its own category while messured agaiant standard .40 loadings
Pic related 150gr&1300 underwood is 560ft/lb,
The 155&165gr Hornady are 480&510 ft/lb at muzzle of a 4" barrell.
Any coincidental 9+p+ rounds outperforming any .40 round is still a smaller bullet and a special loading while .40 can be hand loaded batter than the counterpart bubbu'd 9+p+p+p+p+++
Pic related
>have X wrist strength
>ergo can shoot 9mm faster than .40 because your wrist strength doesnt change depending on what caliber youre shooting
>.40 makes .045" wider holes
>shockingly a .045" wider hole doesnt change effect on target
>more holes does though
>you can put more holes in a target per unit of time with 9mm than .40
Its pretty simple tbqh, an extra 20th of one inch in wound diameter doesnt really do anything, more holes does.
Wound diameter doesn’t mean shit, only thing that matter is penetration. Which .40 propels a heavier bullet faster, sure we could all use ball and not have to worry about hollow point expansion retarding penetration but it’s nice to be courteous to bystanders and whatever else is behind your target
This was a reasonable concern for agencies involved in lots of OISs involving vehicle barriers back in the 90s and 00s. These days if youre worried about that sort of thing then there are plenty of adequately performing 9mm projectiles that do just as well. this is why the vast majority of agencies that used to issue .40 have switched over to moderately expanding robustly designed 9mm loads instead.
> Wound diameter doesn’t mean shit, only thing that matter is penetration.
So your position is that a single gamma ray (which will go straight through your body) is as effective at stopping a threat as 9x19?
No but a .22 lr/5.7 though the heart is just effective as 9mm through the heart
The round obviously must be able to do enough damage to whatever organ it penetrates. That was assumed dick wad. Expansion, temporary cavity, wound volume, don’t kill, bloodloss does but that can take a while. Penetration of vital organs do incapacitate and kill.
Shot placement and the penetration to use that shot placement is the only things that matter.
>9mm is way better than .40
No, it's not. It's actually a bit worse, but the reduced recoil and additional capacity offset that minor shortcoming many times over.
I actually really like .40 but haven't seen many of these threads since the FBI dropped it in favor of 9mm.
With the popularity of micro 9's, I don't see .40 making any kind of comeback and 9mm being just as good against people, there's no reason to go .40 in a midsize gun either. However, if you did what would you get?
.40 gives you about 30% more energy and better barrier penetration with a slight cost to capacity. I don't personally feel that the recoil is any more difficult to control in a large enough gun and actually find the sharper recoil impulse to be a benefit to my shooting though I have no idea why.
The biggest downsides is that it's hard on some guns and costs more to shoot. I just stick with 9mm for the practicality across platforms.
It's cheaper and easier to shoot and available in more platforms, which are all desirable qualities that might make it "better" for some or even most people, but generally when people talk about one self-defense caliber being "better" than another they're talking about terminal ballistics, and in that regard 9mm can barely manage to be "not significantly worse" than .40 S&W (if you ignore the results of any shooting where the bullet struck a bone before reaching a vital organ and compare the best 9mm loads with average or subpar .40 ones)
It's interesting these two. From my investigation, the 9mm and 45ACP have more in common than .40 and 9mm. The 40 is typically under-powered, but my hand-loads are quite powerful -- closer to 10mm. The .40 has better balistrics for barrier penetration, and lastly, the 9mm +p, +p+ is just as rough on their platforms as a Hispanicy .40. Love the straight walled .40. Love the 10mm.
Why not both...
I have a glock 23 and have a conversion barrel for 9mm
Me too but tbh .40 is too expensive considering how similar it is to 9 mm.
man imagine being allergic to nut and trying to write erotica anyway
Wait wait wait...tbh (short for to be honest) becomes tbh? Did not know this.
hello newfriend
welcome to PrepHole
here is your complimentary PrepHole frog
shaking my head to be honest, family
It's cheaper without a meaningful performance difference but the guys who don't have to care about money still use 9mm due to a wider loading variety, availability and other reasons.
>but the guys who don't have to care about money still use 9mm due to w*m*n being able to qual with it
yeah
Reminder that .36 lead ball over a charge of black powder used to kill people just fine.
It really doesn't matter as long as it's a .380 or above.
>"X used to kill people just fine"
grug agree
thunder stick overrated, sharp rock is fine
Cartridge ammunition had many wonderful benefits but lethality on point of impact was not one of them, lead balls did NASTY things to humans, FMJ is a downgrade and even JHP is a cope
FMJ penetrates better which is the whole point of wrapping the lead in copper (so that it *doesn't* squish), and hollowpoints are safety rounds meant to keep bystanders from harm, (you) are retarded
>advocates stopping power of FMJ
>calls anyone else retarded
Literally every revolution in bullet design in the last century has been attempting to answer the question "How do we make this less shitty than FMJ"
.40 has the mag capacity of a 10mm with the energy of a Hispanicy 9mm.
So you can't cram 17 rounds in it like a cz75, nor do you get the raw power of the 10mm, so what is it's purpose?
It's mediocre on all fronts.
It fits into a smaller grip than 10mm, it has more penetration than 9mm +P, and not as much recoil as 10mm
I really have to question if you have ever held a double stack 10mm or .45 (often on the same frame)
>assault rifles are bad because they're almost as big and heavy as a real rifle but only as powerful as a shit-hot pistol cartridge
.40 S&W gives you all the power you realistically need in a duty gun and most of the magazine capacity of a 9mm without the bulk of a gun big enough for .45 ACP or 10mm Auto
Also, .40 S&W is barely 100 fps behind .357 Mag in 15X gr loads and only gets more momentous from there, while 9mm needs Bubba's extra-Hispanicy ++P++ handloads to even match 125gr .357, so saying it has the energy of "Hispanicy 9mm" is disingenuous at best
40S&W is a man’s caliber. 9mm is for low T beta males trying to compensate for their womanlike grip strength.
Would you rather shoot a caliber made by cuck Germans that lost WW2, or 40S&W which was made by the greatest country on earth? My choice is quite clear.
>Yeah but a 40S&W was made for Cucked FBI agents
FBI and U.S. shoot some wack +P 135gr and +p 147gr loadings. You can buy the same meme tip bullets in 180gr .40 for the same velocities and better performance. Comfy. Try getting cheap range ammo in those 9mm loadings.
.40 might have more muzzle energy, but shot placement is far more important in a self-defense situation. Everyone likes to larp and pretend that they would be John Wick in a shooting, but the reality is:
>You are going to be more stressed than you've ever been in your entire life
>You will lose your fine motor controls
>You will revert back to your lowest level of training
>You probably won't get all of your shots center mass or on vitals
>It will be unlike all your range trips, all your competition shooting, and all your encounters with hostile wildlife
Given the above, I'd choose an increase in hit probability with increased magazine capacity any day of the week. 9mm is a compromise between power and capacity.
>shooter falls into that quiet, time-shifted place of absolute clarity
Don't shoot the gun, be the gun
the added power is like adding 10lbs on a 1h mace to kill guys better. Yeah it'll kill them better, but the regular mace kills people just fine, and you can swing it much easier.
if you want a big slap your cock on the counter and rattle the plates in the cabinet round to kill boars or bears with, just go with 10mm
It's not that much extra power; it's like using a steel mace instead of an aluminum one.
9mm was never better than .40 and is still not better than .40, .40 accomplishes what it set out to achieve. That's to be 10-15% better than 9mm. That comes with tradeoffs, you lose 2 rounds if you don't extend your mags, and increased recoil (I've never been able to notice the difference). Available rounds have improved so 9mm is now 10-15% better than it was, so everyone just switched back to 9mm. .40 is still better because it's now 10-15% better than it was.
.357sig beat both of them slightly but never really took off. Very few agencies used it and most have also switched to 9mm. It also came with its own tradeoffs, one of them being reliability issues. .45 was always a fat slow piece of shit. 10mm still blows all of them out of the water. It's a round that's actually worth the extra recoil.
Thr way I see it, if you think 9mm is inadequate (it ain't) then just get a 10mm to shut yourself up. Once you shoot the thing you'll never worry about it not having enough power. If you need to shrink the size of your gun, 9mm is the way to go for commonality's sake and it performs well in small guns. If you just have to pretend like you need more power, .40 fits in smaller guns as well but the recoil will be more intense. It's also rapidly losing commonality so price may go up and some stores may stop carrying it.
>Are guns even being made in 40 s&w anymore?
But seriously, I care about cost and capacity more than power. If 5.7mm was as cheap as 9mm I'd carry that.
40cal is pretty neat ngl. Good penetration through barriers and good expansion while maintaining decent capacity. The upper ends definitely push what I can shoot quickly and accurately but 155gr at 1250 fps is impressive. If it weren't for price, I'd probably shoot it more but I'd probably still carry 9mm because I can shoot it noticeably faster accurately. I've never had anyone shoot 40 that could come close to out scoring me with 9mm.
>he isnt carrying 50 AE
WHOLE LOTTA SISSIES ITT