>ar one of the most of all time
>9mm one of the most of all time
why arent there more 9mm ar15s for general funs shooting
yes, swap the upper. but i mean more options available besides buying 1.5 guns
9mm ar15
>ar one of the most of all time
>9mm one of the most of all time
why arent there more 9mm ar15s for general funs shooting
yes, swap the upper. but i mean more options available besides buying 1.5 guns
you are asking why 9mm ar15s are not more commonly sold complete? you acknowledge the niche usecase. perhaps there is not demand to justify supply.
the skinny mag looks silly unless that's a glock mag. a 9mm ar should take glock mags or have some clever full size mag that fits hella 9mm
>clever full size mag that fits hella 9mm
Endomag - 9mm magazine guts that go inside a PMAG
well I'll be damn
yeah those are dangerous as fuck, the ejector is on the mag so if you drop a mag and try to clear the gun, the round stays on the bolt face no matter how many times you rack it
iirc it depends on what make of upper you have. their website lists a few different options with and without mag-ejectors. this is the first I've heard of them though, are they supposed to be shit?
>As for the Tony's custom XM177 upper it's comfy and fun to shoot but that's because the whole gun started as a meme magdumping machine. 80% lower with a brace and a binary trigger because the big ban 3 sounded like a fun project and it's devolved into pic related with a brake to destroy eardrums.
fuckin A. for my next lower I'm thinking I'll just get one of the Franklin Armory ones with the binary preinstalled. I've put a few of them in myself but it would convenient to just get the lower and the trigger all in one. i'm hoping to fine one on a black Friday sale somewhere
video going around right now of an ND due to these, I don't think you can extract the round with the magazine out of it
>the skinny mag looks silly unless that's a glock mag.
i think glock mags look worse than stick mags
glock mags suck. If you have the space for a double feed mag fucking use it. Make more guns accept uzi mags
they suck
direct blowback 9mm sucks.
make it direct impingement
My PC9 is so easy to clean I have no desire for any other system. Only a bolt action is easier. It fucks up brass a little but reloading 9mm is retarded anyway.
doesn't really work, just not enough gas.
...what about a 10mm?
That could work, but 10mm is too powerful for direct impingement. The gun would beat itself to death.
Pretty sure both Macon and Moriarti have 10mm DI uppers, but they do a bunch of oddball DI stuff like 7.62x25.
Better terminal performance than 300 BO when suppressed and is quieter. It's also a hell of a lot cheaper. Sure 300 BO suppressed has 30% longer engagement distance and supers rock 9mm day, but that point just pick up an 5.56
>Better terminal performance than 300 BO when suppressed
Huh?
I've hear they suck but Ive never heard anyone explain why they suck. It seems like a good idea for a sub gun/carbine
direct blowback is relatively high recoiling due to the mass of the bolt. which means your little 9mm pcc has more recoil than if you just shot it with 5.56.
22lr conversion bolts being a thing, it's just easier and cheaper to shoot that for shits and giggles as opposed to buying a whole new gun or upper.
>direct blowback is relatively high recoiling due to the mass of the bolt
I've heard that theory, don't buy it, my PC9 is more controllable than any AR despite only weighing 6.5# with the Magpul stock.
your pc9 is not an ar
9mm ars have more felt recoil than the same sized ar in 556
Then it's a piece of shit just like I said. Get the Ruger. This is one thing they're doing right.
Newton's 3rd law of motion conclusively proves you wrong. You're saying a glock with a stock has more recoil than a 16" ar-15. What a joke.
I used to think that, until I realised that 9mm bullets weigh 105g, while 5.56mm bullets weigh 55g.
You failed basic physics didn't you?
What is momentum?
9mm moves at ~1/3 of the speed of 5.56 so even with double the weight, the recoil impulse is lower, anon.
A projectile can have more energy and impart less recoil. That's just how the recoil equation works. Weight is what matters, not energy.
You dumb homosexuals
It's because an ar15 has a gas system that mitigates the recoil and most ar9's do not
A direct blowback ar15 would be tremendously more recoil than a 9mm, yes.
But that's not what he is saying, he is saying most ar9s recoil more than ar15's, which is true
>You're saying a glock with a stock
glocks arent straight blowback
unless you wanna pretend a 9mm hi point and 9mm glock have the same felt recoil
mechanism matters
That's cope man. A properly built 5.56 DI AR doesn't have recoil or muzzle rise. My mcx even has less recoil than my ps90 or other pcc's i've shot like cx4 and mp5 variants.
Tell me you shoot at 50 yards and in without telling me.
With a full length rifle stock and one of the weird old Enidine buffers they are tame, but the novelty of the thing wears quickly.
That the Colt originals use modified Uzi mags also sours the deal. Uzi mags are a pain in the dick to load. Colt should have used K-Pist/S&W76 mags.
Ruger PC9 beats the shit out of it
> Low sight height
> Nearly bolt-action simple
> +P+ rated
> Breaks down to pack size
> Lighter and better balanced
> MSRP $779
I have a scout scope on mine and use it as an all-purpose and survival rifle over here in the southeastern woods. I kill deer with it, squirrels, and everything in between. It can do better than 2MOA with most 147 grain ammo. I don't worry about hanging extra mags somewhere, it uses the same mags I'm already carrying on my CC belt. This is the only rifle I need on this side of the country.
Bonus points, you can get a wood stock, drum mag, and make a Glockasha.
beautiful, I love it anon
>No light
>No LAM
>No folding stock
>Rail space too limited to use a magnifier
>Can't use a suppressor
>Barrel is too long for 9mm
Just get a CCMG Banshee. It's the penultimate PCC.
>Rail space too limited to use a magnifier
>Can't use a suppressor
>Barrel is too long for 9mm
Wrong on all counts anon, bravo
The muzzle of your PC9 clearly isn't able to mount a suppressor.
It's very obviously threaded
But it can't take a suppressor as is. You still have to unscrew what is already on the threads.
>penultimate
Why would you recommend people buy the second best?
Because the 44 camp carbine is out of production
>No light
It has a light rail. Pic was not my gun, I have a light on mine, actually a 1" scope ring with a Polytac (just a weird thing I do) and red lens cover for nighttime coyote and hogs.
>No LAM
Magpul stock accepts LAM, or you could just use a pistol laser module on the front rail. Don't care either way, don't use em.
>No folding stock
The barrel/forend assembly comes right off with a button press. Folding stocks suck.
>>Rail space too limited to use a magnifier
I have a full length scout rail that was only $40, mainly for accuracy.
>Can't use a suppressor
Fucking what?
>Barrel is too long for 9mm
That has nothing to do with the gun. I could get a tax stamp and have any gun smith shorten and rethread it. Lots of 9mm carbines are too short. 9mm velocity peaks at at least a 12" barrel, at which point you can get a 45% increase in energy over a G19 with a given ammo, and significantly increased maximum range for reliable hollowpoint performance, like a 70 yards advantage. I actually use the thing so ballistics matter. Also, if the optics fail I still have a good sight radius.
>Just get a CCMG Banshee
No. I only buy guns from major manufacturers with a good output of replacement and aftermarket parts, good customer service and warranty, economically priced and readily available so I can store multiple backups, high production with lots of consumer testing for reliability. I don't rely on guns from small outfits I've barely heard of, probably overpriced anyway. Glock + PC9 with Samson rail is the way to go.
Paul Harrell said that if a bullet is moving too fast, hollowpoints won't work reliably. Just FYI.
That's bullshit and he never said that. 9mm terminal performance out of a 16" barrel is excellent out to 100 yards.
I believe his words were
>Increasing barrel length increases bullet velocity, up to a point
>If a hollowpoint is propelled too fast, or not fast enough, it may not function reliably
>If a hollowpoint is propelled too fast, or not fast enough, it may not function reliably
See
9mm sees a flat improvement in performance with virtually all bullets.
Sometimes if a hollowpoint is pushed at a radically higher velocity than it's designed for, it mushrooms way too much and this can lead to over penetration. This is not really an issue in modern PCCs, which only gain about 200-300 fps over a handgun (though that's a significant energy increase). It was sometimes an issue with 125 grain ammunition in 357 magnum carbines, especially with semi-jacketed hollowpoints. They gained a ridiculous amount of velocity, because they weren't efficient in 4-6" revolvers to begin with. Modern auto cartridges are very efficient, a carbine increases velocity just enough to keep performance reliable at extended range, 100-150 yards, without the bullet exploding and under penetrating.
I'm a little confused as to how a bullet mushrooming too much could lead to overpenetration.
Typo, meant under penetration.
Pretty wrong tbh, plenty of modern 124gr defensive loads(particularly the +P) can be pushed too fast from a carbine length barrel resulting in over expansion or even fragmentation resulting in minimal penetration. Ex 124gr gold dot and 124gr HST which are pretty much the top of the line defensive choices in their respective weights
Longer barrel is more reliable too. More back pressure to push back a heavy spring. That's one reason I wouldn't bother shortening it. The other is that 16" + linear comp makes it pretty quiet as is. With earplugs it sounds like a "hiss".
>no forward assist
not a soldier's gun
It goes without saying that a solider wouldn't use a 9mm weapon as their primary. The purpose of the PCC is to share mags with your pistol and give you a better weapon for home defense.
Or for SHTF, living out of a backpack on foot for months, killing small game animals and the occasional deer, shining a light at bumps in the night. The most minimalistic system that can kill a guy at 100 yards is what's in order.
>the occasional deer,
>With 9mm
Well, good luck with that.
It's a proven deer round even out of a handgun. Not as good as .357 but it does the job. A carbine will do at 70 yards what a G19 will do at the muzzle.
You will never get within 70 yards of a deer unless you bait one.
Or if you happen to be 5 yards outside of a hunting zone, in which case you can walk right up to them.
this
idk what hunterfags are doing but i get within rock throwing distance of durrs all the time innawoods
70 yards is maximum visibility where I live. I see them at far less than that all the time.
PA or NJ detected
The national record buck for years was taken with a .32-20, 9mm even in standard pressure FMJ form is superior to .32-20 in every way.
full length guide rod
Why are you describing my dick?
>not a soldier's gun
I see your pretty wood PC9 and raise you a wood Highpoint Carbine
I had both the carbine and the charger, ended up selling the carbine in favor of the charger.
Anon why are you shooting deer with 9mm. It's not an ethical cartridge for anything above small game
It's as good as a fixed blade broadhead and better than some old timey entry level deer cartridges like .32-20. Lots of deer and hogs are taken annually with 9mm these days, particularly carbines.
Very based anon. What ammo are you usiing on deer? I've been planning on snagging my old man's PC9 and usig it for deer
Isn't this SMG version of the AR supposed to be just used for close quarters like how the Heckler & Koch MP5 had been famously known for?
come home 9mm bros
Why would I buy that when any free rock off of the ground can do just as good a job of holding papers down in the wind as a PCC that doesn't accept Glock mags?
>buy
It does take glock mags retard. There's also a scorpion mag version. It can also be done under 200 dollars and runs better than a sub2k. Theres also a smaller variant.
How bad is it to get a conversion kit for a regular lower and remove the parts instead of buying a purpose made 9mm lower?
Mine is pretty good. Haven't had any failures with it within the thousand or so rounds I've put through it so far. My only complaints are the price for it kinda sucks for what it is and every once in a while I'll hit the wrong mag release. You get a new mag release button at the bottom of the magwell adapter for the glock mags while the adapter is held in the AR magwell with the normal mag catch and 2 hex screws to tension it in place.
>yes I know this build is an abomination
Is it a pain in the ass to swap back an forth? Do you just have a dedicated lower for it?
No, it is fairly easy to swap back and forth and I have done so at the range. You will need to bring the little Allen keys for the tension screws however and those screws themselves are pretty small and will disappear forever if I ever accidentally unscrew them all the way out and drop them at the sandpit where I shoot. Also to note is you need a 9mm buffer for shooting 9mm but leaving that buffer in there when switching back to a .223/5.56 upper and bolt carrier will overpower the bolt catch on an empty magazine and you lose your last round bolt hold open for the most part.
thanks for the info. I read in other places that some 9mm uppers work fine with 5.56 buffers and some don't. Do you or anyone else have info on that?
Also how are you liking those A1 style handguards? I'm thinking about swapping the cap on one of my uppers to fit some of those
I've tried an H2 buffer behind the 9mm bolt once and I noticed it felt kinda weird. I went back at night to test a theory and it was indeed spitting sparks and flames out of the ejection port. Ordered the 9mm buffer immediately after that. It's not really a question of if it'll work reliably because I've honestly never had the thing jam on me once, but more of a question how smoothly do you want the thing to operate. As for the Tony's custom XM177 upper it's comfy and fun to shoot but that's because the whole gun started as a meme magdumping machine. 80% lower with a brace and a binary trigger because the big ban 3 sounded like a fun project and it's devolved into pic related with a brake to destroy eardrums.
Why is someone making this thread every other day/week?
I feel like I've seen this thread for about a month now.
why are there close to no DGI AR9's? is 9mm too dirty?
I'm pretty sure TFB just made a video about some CMMG gun that is direct impingement and also stockless.
i dont follow them, so i wouldn't know
word?
They cost more than a 5.56 ar and won't perform much better than a $300 Hi-point or Keltec pcc.
Ok this is pretty much true. The only reason I built my AR-9 was to pop in my FRT and shoot it suppressed with 147gr without getting another caliber.
The direct blowback does have a distinct felt recoil that might be problematic in full auto, but is fun in semi. When the military was shopping for 9mm sub guns the MP5 was already king, so they never took off in that regard, and in the civilian market everyone wants stuff that takes Glock mags for reasons, so a proprietary magazine was seen as a draw back. But they’re dick simple to work on, are as relatively accurate as any other PCC, and look cool. I like mine.
I wonder if the perceived reduced recoil has to do with lockup.
On a regular AR the felt recoil is split up into two parts, one where the bullet is propelled forwards and the second when the bolt unlocks and the BCG slides backwards.
But if there's no lockup then everything is felt all at once. If you added up the two recoil phases of the 5.56 it's probably higher than the 9mm, but it feels less sharper because it's more drawn out.
It does- it's partially a lower impulse curve as you're describing, it's partly projectile mass acting on the rifling (as well as the powder charge being a factor along with the bullet), it's partially the discrepancy in mass between blowback and standard bolts moving at nearly the same speeds, and it's partially the lack of energy being utilised as work to actuate the lockup non-linearly. Same reasons why an MP5 or MPX is softer than a standard AR.
A5 buffer tube, hydraulic buffer, 10mm ejector spring, trigger tech drop in, suppressor…and it’s a real smooth shooter
I really hate when that happens
AR9's suck because they're direct blowback. You want an MP5 or a CMMG banshee if you want a 9mm PCC.
I still consider this an AR9. It's the perfect suppressor host, especially since you can tune the weight of the bolt without bubba'ing your shit. I love mine and would heavily recommend it. Mine hates blazer aluminum, but it chews through any brass cased ammo with no problems. Feeds hollow points no problem. It's my bedside gun.
Theyre trash because of the chonky bolts, need for tuning, and need for non AR-15 parts. At that point you might as well buy a different firearm that doesnt do a shit job at its primary task.
Pistol caliber carbines in general are answering a question nobody asked. They have shit range and terminal velocity compared to rifle cartridges in general.
absolute brainlet take
PCC's are toys for s-ois and you won't change my mind. The only exception might be fully automatic submachine guns.
Dude you play fucking Warhammer. You are literally just a displeased s*y wojak instead of an excited one
Say what you will, but I shoot rifle cartridges out of AR pistols like a man. You enjoy throwing money at overpriced, laughably underpowered PCC garbagio. I wouldn't be suprised if you're currently taking HRT.
>he doesn't buy guns for fun
Consider the binary trigger, brother.
>They have shit range and terminal velocity compared to rifle cartridges in general.
They suppress really well. That's the main draw. Yes, something like .300 memeout also suppresses really well and fires bigger boolet but a subsonic round is a subsonic round. They all go the same speed. While .300 BLK might drop more energy into someone, it's not going to change the fact that it just pokes a little hole in someone, same as any handgun cartridge does.
Forgot image. Subsonic .300BLK
>gel shot of a heavy match projectile only used for its weight to keep velocity down and costs cheap through commonality
I agree that subsonic 300blk just pokes holes, but man does that gel shot make it look bad compared to a subsonic expanding load like the Hornady Sub-X.
well yeah when you're comparing temporary cavity to the permanent cavity, ya dingus
thats the same shot ya dingus. perm at the top, temp at the bottom
.223 supresses really well too at 2500 fps muzzle velocity. Sure it's still super sonic but you can hit and kill things further than 50 feet away. If you're hunting pigs I guess you could use 10mm but 300blk or 8.6blk is going to be a better option anyway. PCC's are toys for toddlers.
>.223 supresses really well too at 2500 fps muzzle velocity
are you genuinely retarded or just pretending?
Wait, do you believe that there aren't expanding 300blk subs?
>pro2A
>gibs
>brace
no thanks.