300 BLK works because it uses common .308 bullets and 5.56 cases and shoots out of the most popular rifle platform in the US. The only thing you need to change is the barrel.
8.6 BLK is a meme round using a meme bullet based off another meme round based of a ... fuck that shit.
I have fed my 300 BLK rifle entirely using the dropped brass from my 5.56 rifle. Until I can get 8.6 BLK components for reloading dirt cheap, and/or can easily reform .308 Win cases, I'm gonna continue to pass.
This. 300BO didn’t get this popular because it’s some retardly optimized cart; it’s because every ammo/AR manufacturer and AR shooter could buy into it with minimal investment
>What does PrepHole think? Sneed it or feed it?
literal garbage shilled to retard hypebeasts that don't know anything about ballistics or physics. it's even worse with the retarded twist rate barrels. barely outperforms 350L in subsonics and is absolutely crushed by .458 socom with subsonics.
I'd like to see you post the math where whatever magic you believe in comes from. go ahead, it isn't complicated. ballistic calculators are free, go look up the 2nd moment and rotational velocity.
don't worry, I'm herbing this gay thread just like that "oh ehm gee totally not an ad" thread you morons made and then deleted.
>I'd like to see you post the math where whatever magic you believe in comes from.
how about the garand thumb video showing off 8.6 blk and it doing a through and through on 3 ballistics gel blocks when .300 winmag couldn't even come close
1 month ago
Anonymous
repeat the test with 458 socom hard cast or 480 gr DGS. >whoa wowzers! totally different behavior from totally different rounds!1!1!!!1! >how could this ever have been predicted?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>300 grain subsonic >600 grain subsonic >>whoa wowzers! totally different behavior from totally different rounds!1!1!!!1!
1 month ago
Anonymous
>subsonic 8.6 vs mach 3 .300WM is closer than subsonic vs. subsonic
we are reaching terminal levels of >buy an ad, retard
because nobody is fooled by your disingenuous gayry. >nooooooo the spinnies!!!!!
Jack Lott yourself immediately.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I just ran two relatively similar loads through a ballistic calculator between 8.6 and 458.
both hypothetical guns have a 20 inch barrel. both guns are zeroed for 100m. drop is measured in mils. 1 mil is 18 inches at 500 yards >285gr 8.6
21.2 mils of drop
381.6 inches at 500 yards
>500gr 458
24.9 mils of drop.
448.2 inches at 500 yards
1 month ago
Anonymous
oh anon, that's only 67 inches of drop difference, that's basically nothing hypetard
1 month ago
Anonymous
based
whoa, 3 mils less drop.
retard
1 month ago
Anonymous
>32 vs 37 feet of drop
if drop is such a concern, why not use a supersonic bullet?
1 month ago
Anonymous
whoa, 3 mils less drop.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Wait till you figure out how good modern broad heads out if a compound bow penetrates ballistic get at 20 feet.
>soviets made the 9x39mm, a 250-300 grain bullet at 99% the speed of sound, over 30 years ago >can get an entire warehouse of it from Russia for the cost of a washing machine >be American businessman, make the 8.6mm Blacked TM >it’s a 250-300 grain bullet at 99% the speed of sound >”that will be $2.50 per round plus tip”
Why do we tolerate this
You can't because it is not for commercial sale and there are a grand total of zero civilian firearms chambered for the cartridge, and Russia does not export 9x39 firearms.
There were also Wolf 9x39 uppers available a few years ago. I remember seeing Wolf and Tulammo 9x39 on shelves before the meme flu too. No idea if either are still available though.
1 month ago
Anonymous
There were also Wolf 9x39 uppers available a few years ago. I remember seeing Wolf and Tulammo 9x39 on shelves before the meme flu too. No idea if either are still available though.
interesting
why are they using fugly 7.62 mags? 9x39 has a similar slim taper to 5.45
retard hypebeast life style marketing special snowflake round of no consequence or importance designed to line Q's pockets and appeal to fat mexicans who like Q
if you have a suppressor that works with it, 8.6Blk is unmatched. You can say 458SOCOM or 450 Bushmaster are in the same territory, they're not. 8.6 is good out to 500 yards... try that shit with either of those two cartridges using subsonic and see what happens. I hope you have about 150 MOA adjustment in your optic.
>I hope you have about 150 MOA adjustment in your optic.
what's the drop at 500 yards with a 576 grain .458 Socom projectile launched at 1050fps
what's the drop at 500 yards of a 300 grain 8.6BO launched at 1050fps?
What's the ballistic coefficient of those two rounds? I'll plug it into a ballistic calculator and see what comes out
like, .3 for the 576 grain, for the 300 grain .338 bullet it's like .84 (G1) I usually use BC of 1 to make a point about subsonic drag.
launch both at 1050fps, that's kind of the standard subsonic velocity.
>I hope you have about 150 MOA adjustment in your optic.
what's the drop at 500 yards with a 576 grain .458 Socom projectile launched at 1050fps
what's the drop at 500 yards of a 300 grain 8.6BO launched at 1050fps?
Initial Velocity: 1050 fps
Sight Height : 1.5 in
Shooting Angle: 0° Wind Speed: 10 mph
Wind Angle: 90°
Zero Range: 100 yd
Chart Range: 750 yd
Maximum Range: 6753 yd
Step Size: 100 yd
International Standard Atmosphere
Altitude: Sea Level (0 ft)
Barometric Pressure: 29.92 Hg
Temperature: 59° F
Relative Humidity: 50%
Speed of Sound: 1116 fps
It will never stop being funny that they talk up the meme 1:3 twist as giving the round M-M-M-MASSIVE ENERGY when it comes out to like 20 ft/lbs over a slower twist barrel. Doubly so because it's some Instagram obsessed gay pushing prehistoric fuddlore that predates WW2.
it has nothing to do with energy transfer, it has to do with maintaining subsonic stability as far as possible, that's why they went with 1:3
if you had any idea what the fuck you were talking about, you wouldn't even be arguing this simple concept
Fuck off shill. They quote this bullshit in every single puff piece about this garbage meme round. >To pull this off, Q uses a 1:3 twist rate to raise the rotational energy of the bullet hugely. In theory, allowing it to have more energy than a standard .338 caliber round moving at the same speed.
>more energy than a standard .338 caliber round moving at the same speed.
what blows my mind is that there is a non-retarded solution to this problem: just make a new lead core .338 projectile that is long as fuck and bring it to nominal stability. the total energy would be more and your sales pitch wouldn't be totally insulting to anyone with 3 braincells to clap together.
If you had any idea what the fuck you were talking about you'd know the twist rate is the first thing they'll bring up about the cartridge. I'd give it a second look as an interesting subsonic rifle cartridge if the marketing weren't so retarded. Look at this: no mention of ballistics or stabilization or anything just the same gimmick.
https://faxonfirearms.com/86blk/
They either believe it themselves or think you're stupid enough to which more likely than not considering it's from Q. I'm sure it's effective marketing for people who don't think too much which fits with the rest of their instagram brand.
The rotational energy is a separate thing. The higher twist rate increases the permanent wound cavity significantly (A LOT). Chasing sub sonic precision they stumbled on this as a bonus even in 300 blk testing, and 8.6 is the follow up.
If you had any idea what the fuck you were talking about you'd know the twist rate is the first thing they'll bring up about the cartridge. I'd give it a second look as an interesting subsonic rifle cartridge if the marketing weren't so retarded. Look at this: no mention of ballistics or stabilization or anything just the same gimmick.
https://faxonfirearms.com/86blk/
They either believe it themselves or think you're stupid enough to which more likely than not considering it's from Q. I'm sure it's effective marketing for people who don't think too much which fits with the rest of their instagram brand.
>no mention of ballistics or stabilization
Refer yourself to interview material and people testing the rounds then.
300 BLK works because it uses common .308 bullets and 5.56 cases and shoots out of the most popular rifle platform in the US. The only thing you need to change is the barrel.
8.6 BLK is a meme round using a meme bullet based off another meme round based of a ... fuck that shit.
I have fed my 300 BLK rifle entirely using the dropped brass from my 5.56 rifle. Until I can get 8.6 BLK components for reloading dirt cheap, and/or can easily reform .308 Win cases, I'm gonna continue to pass.
>I have fed my 300 BLK rifle entirely using the dropped brass from my 5.56 rifle. Until I can get 8.6 BLK components for reloading dirt cheap, and/or can easily reform .308 Win cases, I'm gonna continue to pass.
>The higher twist rate increases the permanent wound cavity significantly (A LOT).
no it doesn't. it only increases the muzzle energy slightly (about 4%). there is no way that it increases tissue damage by more than 4% because there isn't enough energy added to the total system to do that. >interview material
whoa, the marketing wank says it's good?! hey anon, I've got some snake oil to sell you.
It has really good penetration, especially with those extra fancy hollowpoint, fluted blah blah rounds. It'll be good for big game, terrible for people.
I'd think something like a subsonic spoon tip might be interesting, 2" long projectile if you can keep it at a significant degree of yaw for most of the penetration depth that'd be a pretty big hole. Of course with 220gr subs in .300 clocking in at 1.6" not sure it'd make a practical difference
Necking up common cartridges for platform commonality is a great idea, so why not. In germany, 9,3x62 (basically a necked up 8x57) is a common hunting cartridge precisely because it fits mauser actions.
>hey I invented this subsonic meme cartridge, perfect for PDW style guns expecting to use a suppressor >make supersonic loads for some reason >hey guys I made an even bigger version that's an even worse meme with much larger projectiles for even worse twist >again, make supersonic loads for some reason >peddled entirely by Q, a retarded wigger that's marketing garbagerods to hypebeast gays
yeah i never got this
if i was a coolguy operating operationally, and i picked a subsonic caliber for a coolguy op, i would never have extra mags of supersonic "just in case"
There are numerous examples in modern history of a clandestine operation going wrong and turning into a protracted gunfight. If you're expecting your sentry gun to not be basically unusable past 100yds, you need supersonic rounds.
Supersonic is probably being pushed because subs are a lot less practical though one does wonder why they aren't appealing to that, maybe Brittingham just can't get contracts any more. I hear a lot about the whole "load subs and carry supers just in case" thing about .300blk which I guess makes a little sense since both loadings are good enough but the subs have much less stopping power and range. Heck even the 7.62x39 it mimics had some specialized subsonic loads. Problem is 8.6mm is getting into specialized thumper territory (and even .300 blk has seen little military adoption because it's so specialized) and to my understanding all the military use of that sort of purpose built suppressed cartridges (.458x1,9x39,12.7x55) have seen only suppressed loads, probably because it's such a specialized role you just aren't going to take it if you expect needing supers.
>again, make supersonic loads for some reason
Literally why wouldn't you? >with much larger projectiles for even worse twist
What makes the twist worse?
>make supers for some reason
300 bo subs are the real meme, supers are the only reason to use it since you get good performance without needing a 20" barrel
>I'm gonna get a cartridge with tiny case volume designed around magnum pistol powders >I'm going to use it not for shooting stupid quiet subsonic rounds in the same platform as my main rifle, but to replicate 762 soviet at over double the cost.
Anon... Just buy an AK.
I don't think it's catching on how they expected and are trying to farm engagement in the face of stonewalling skepticism. its pathetic, but how else will they corner the 500+m subsonic precision shooter market?
asking PrepHole and in general PrepHoles opinion on anything is asking for trouble. I mean you'll get contrarianism, blatant lies because nu or old thing good or bad opposite is whatever and other assortments that make you wonder if said poster is mentally fit to even shit himself
gay shit for gays
All these gays and their hyper specific cartridges need to fuck off back to the DND club. Just get a .308 or 5.56 rifle and be done with it.
Think of it this way:
It gives eccentric collectors a reason to buy a shitload more guns, which goes into making better products for the rest of us.
>or
0.458
>10rd max
300 BLK works because it uses common .308 bullets and 5.56 cases and shoots out of the most popular rifle platform in the US. The only thing you need to change is the barrel.
8.6 BLK is a meme round using a meme bullet based off another meme round based of a ... fuck that shit.
I have fed my 300 BLK rifle entirely using the dropped brass from my 5.56 rifle. Until I can get 8.6 BLK components for reloading dirt cheap, and/or can easily reform .308 Win cases, I'm gonna continue to pass.
This. 300BO didn’t get this popular because it’s some retardly optimized cart; it’s because every ammo/AR manufacturer and AR shooter could buy into it with minimal investment
Don’t forget 300 is also straight wall
300 BLK has a shoulder.
I know the company behind the round are total gays but are there any legitimate complaints against the round?
On my buy list.
It does nothing that the 375 Raptor does better.
this, also has to use stupid bullets because of retard twist rate
>What does PrepHole think? Sneed it or feed it?
literal garbage shilled to retard hypebeasts that don't know anything about ballistics or physics. it's even worse with the retarded twist rate barrels. barely outperforms 350L in subsonics and is absolutely crushed by .458 socom with subsonics.
I'd like to see where you got your numbers from
do the math you worthless gay.
I'd like to see someone regularly put rounds on target with subsonic 458 at 300 yards or effortlessly penetrate like 8.6
I'd like to see you post the math where whatever magic you believe in comes from. go ahead, it isn't complicated. ballistic calculators are free, go look up the 2nd moment and rotational velocity.
don't worry, I'm herbing this gay thread just like that "oh ehm gee totally not an ad" thread you morons made and then deleted.
>I'd like to see you post the math where whatever magic you believe in comes from.
how about the garand thumb video showing off 8.6 blk and it doing a through and through on 3 ballistics gel blocks when .300 winmag couldn't even come close
repeat the test with 458 socom hard cast or 480 gr DGS.
>whoa wowzers! totally different behavior from totally different rounds!1!1!!!1!
>how could this ever have been predicted?
>300 grain subsonic
>600 grain subsonic
>>whoa wowzers! totally different behavior from totally different rounds!1!1!!!1!
>subsonic 8.6 vs mach 3 .300WM is closer than subsonic vs. subsonic
we are reaching terminal levels of
>buy an ad, retard
because nobody is fooled by your disingenuous gayry.
>nooooooo the spinnies!!!!!
Jack Lott yourself immediately.
I just ran two relatively similar loads through a ballistic calculator between 8.6 and 458.
both hypothetical guns have a 20 inch barrel. both guns are zeroed for 100m. drop is measured in mils. 1 mil is 18 inches at 500 yards
>285gr 8.6
21.2 mils of drop
381.6 inches at 500 yards
>500gr 458
24.9 mils of drop.
448.2 inches at 500 yards
oh anon, that's only 67 inches of drop difference, that's basically nothing hypetard
based
retard
>32 vs 37 feet of drop
if drop is such a concern, why not use a supersonic bullet?
whoa, 3 mils less drop.
Wait till you figure out how good modern broad heads out if a compound bow penetrates ballistic get at 20 feet.
Good if you want to hunt elk with a subsonic I guess. 300blk 220gr is plenty for deer or anything 2 legged.
>soviets made the 9x39mm, a 250-300 grain bullet at 99% the speed of sound, over 30 years ago
>can get an entire warehouse of it from Russia for the cost of a washing machine
>be American businessman, make the 8.6mm Blacked TM
>it’s a 250-300 grain bullet at 99% the speed of sound
>”that will be $2.50 per round plus tip”
Why do we tolerate this
That’s capitalism for ya
>>can get an entire warehouse of it from Russia for the cost of a washing machine
May I see it?
No you may not, Biden banned Russian ammo
A screenshot from before that? An old catalog?
You can't because it is not for commercial sale and there are a grand total of zero civilian firearms chambered for the cartridge, and Russia does not export 9x39 firearms.
In other words, he lied.
>there are a grand total of zero civilian firearms chambered for the cartridge
God damn people on this board get stupider every fucking day.
name one (1)
https://pro2a-tactical.com/ar-15-upper-assemblies/ar-15-9x39-upper-assemblies.html
There were also Wolf 9x39 uppers available a few years ago. I remember seeing Wolf and Tulammo 9x39 on shelves before the meme flu too. No idea if either are still available though.
interesting
why are they using fugly 7.62 mags? 9x39 has a similar slim taper to 5.45
because both rounds are garbage meme bullets.
retard hypebeast life style marketing special snowflake round of no consequence or importance designed to line Q's pockets and appeal to fat mexicans who like Q
if you have a suppressor that works with it, 8.6Blk is unmatched. You can say 458SOCOM or 450 Bushmaster are in the same territory, they're not. 8.6 is good out to 500 yards... try that shit with either of those two cartridges using subsonic and see what happens. I hope you have about 150 MOA adjustment in your optic.
>I hope you have about 150 MOA adjustment in your optic.
what's the drop at 500 yards with a 576 grain .458 Socom projectile launched at 1050fps
what's the drop at 500 yards of a 300 grain 8.6BO launched at 1050fps?
I’d like you to show me who the fuck shoots these rounds subsonic at more than a quarter mile
how many people shoot 8.6 that far?
like, .3 for the 576 grain, for the 300 grain .338 bullet it's like .84 (G1) I usually use BC of 1 to make a point about subsonic drag.
launch both at 1050fps, that's kind of the standard subsonic velocity.
Initial Velocity: 1050 fps
Sight Height : 1.5 in
Shooting Angle: 0° Wind Speed: 10 mph
Wind Angle: 90°
Zero Range: 100 yd
Chart Range: 750 yd
Maximum Range: 6753 yd
Step Size: 100 yd
International Standard Atmosphere
Altitude: Sea Level (0 ft)
Barometric Pressure: 29.92 Hg
Temperature: 59° F
Relative Humidity: 50%
Speed of Sound: 1116 fps
What's the ballistic coefficient of those two rounds? I'll plug it into a ballistic calculator and see what comes out
It will never stop being funny that they talk up the meme 1:3 twist as giving the round M-M-M-MASSIVE ENERGY when it comes out to like 20 ft/lbs over a slower twist barrel. Doubly so because it's some Instagram obsessed gay pushing prehistoric fuddlore that predates WW2.
it has nothing to do with energy transfer, it has to do with maintaining subsonic stability as far as possible, that's why they went with 1:3
if you had any idea what the fuck you were talking about, you wouldn't even be arguing this simple concept
Fuck off shill. They quote this bullshit in every single puff piece about this garbage meme round.
>To pull this off, Q uses a 1:3 twist rate to raise the rotational energy of the bullet hugely. In theory, allowing it to have more energy than a standard .338 caliber round moving at the same speed.
>more energy than a standard .338 caliber round moving at the same speed.
what blows my mind is that there is a non-retarded solution to this problem: just make a new lead core .338 projectile that is long as fuck and bring it to nominal stability. the total energy would be more and your sales pitch wouldn't be totally insulting to anyone with 3 braincells to clap together.
If you had any idea what the fuck you were talking about you'd know the twist rate is the first thing they'll bring up about the cartridge. I'd give it a second look as an interesting subsonic rifle cartridge if the marketing weren't so retarded. Look at this: no mention of ballistics or stabilization or anything just the same gimmick.
https://faxonfirearms.com/86blk/
They either believe it themselves or think you're stupid enough to which more likely than not considering it's from Q. I'm sure it's effective marketing for people who don't think too much which fits with the rest of their instagram brand.
>it has nothing to do with energy transfer
The rotational energy is a separate thing. The higher twist rate increases the permanent wound cavity significantly (A LOT). Chasing sub sonic precision they stumbled on this as a bonus even in 300 blk testing, and 8.6 is the follow up.
>no mention of ballistics or stabilization
Refer yourself to interview material and people testing the rounds then.
>I have fed my 300 BLK rifle entirely using the dropped brass from my 5.56 rifle. Until I can get 8.6 BLK components for reloading dirt cheap, and/or can easily reform .308 Win cases, I'm gonna continue to pass.
Not wrong.
>The higher twist rate increases the permanent wound cavity significantly (A LOT).
no it doesn't. it only increases the muzzle energy slightly (about 4%). there is no way that it increases tissue damage by more than 4% because there isn't enough energy added to the total system to do that.
>interview material
whoa, the marketing wank says it's good?! hey anon, I've got some snake oil to sell you.
>The higher twist rate increases the permanent wound cavity significantly (A LOT).
lol no
man, whoever gets hit with that will be EIGHT SIXED. Gonna get me one of those to compliment my 10MM.
It has really good penetration, especially with those extra fancy hollowpoint, fluted blah blah rounds. It'll be good for big game, terrible for people.
I'd think something like a subsonic spoon tip might be interesting, 2" long projectile if you can keep it at a significant degree of yaw for most of the penetration depth that'd be a pretty big hole. Of course with 220gr subs in .300 clocking in at 1.6" not sure it'd make a practical difference
I'll stick with .338 federal but thanks anyways.
Necking up common cartridges for platform commonality is a great idea, so why not. In germany, 9,3x62 (basically a necked up 8x57) is a common hunting cartridge precisely because it fits mauser actions.
>hey I invented this subsonic meme cartridge, perfect for PDW style guns expecting to use a suppressor
>make supersonic loads for some reason
>hey guys I made an even bigger version that's an even worse meme with much larger projectiles for even worse twist
>again, make supersonic loads for some reason
>peddled entirely by Q, a retarded wigger that's marketing garbagerods to hypebeast gays
yeah i never got this
if i was a coolguy operating operationally, and i picked a subsonic caliber for a coolguy op, i would never have extra mags of supersonic "just in case"
There are numerous examples in modern history of a clandestine operation going wrong and turning into a protracted gunfight. If you're expecting your sentry gun to not be basically unusable past 100yds, you need supersonic rounds.
ok, name one
(one that was suitable for subsonics to begin with)
Supersonic is probably being pushed because subs are a lot less practical though one does wonder why they aren't appealing to that, maybe Brittingham just can't get contracts any more. I hear a lot about the whole "load subs and carry supers just in case" thing about .300blk which I guess makes a little sense since both loadings are good enough but the subs have much less stopping power and range. Heck even the 7.62x39 it mimics had some specialized subsonic loads. Problem is 8.6mm is getting into specialized thumper territory (and even .300 blk has seen little military adoption because it's so specialized) and to my understanding all the military use of that sort of purpose built suppressed cartridges (.458x1,9x39,12.7x55) have seen only suppressed loads, probably because it's such a specialized role you just aren't going to take it if you expect needing supers.
>again, make supersonic loads for some reason
Literally why wouldn't you?
>with much larger projectiles for even worse twist
What makes the twist worse?
>make supers for some reason
300 bo subs are the real meme, supers are the only reason to use it since you get good performance without needing a 20" barrel
>I'm gonna get a cartridge with tiny case volume designed around magnum pistol powders
>I'm going to use it not for shooting stupid quiet subsonic rounds in the same platform as my main rifle, but to replicate 762 soviet at over double the cost.
Anon... Just buy an AK.
>just buy an AK that costs as much as an AR nowadays and buy 7.62x39 for 45cpr because imports are all banned
uh, no
300 ham'r shoots faster, flatter, and has much better terminal ballistics
>at over double the cost.
Um, anon, they're about equivalent at this point.
lmao nah I can swap a 300blk upper with my AR and have the versatility of two calibers.
AR > AK
Simple as
sneed the supersonics our of the longer barrel
Damn bro, just buy an ak and quit trying to make meme rounds
what if I told you it's not 2008 anymore and 7.62x39 isn't cheap and abundant?
whats the cpr of 8.6 vs 7.62x39
8.6 is nothing like 7.62x39.
We were talking about 300 bo vs 7.62x39
the amount of shilling behind this round is simply amazing
I don't think it's catching on how they expected and are trying to farm engagement in the face of stonewalling skepticism. its pathetic, but how else will they corner the 500+m subsonic precision shooter market?
it's autist round copying a meme round in other words useless and expensive except for very specific purposes
asking PrepHole and in general PrepHoles opinion on anything is asking for trouble. I mean you'll get contrarianism, blatant lies because nu or old thing good or bad opposite is whatever and other assortments that make you wonder if said poster is mentally fit to even shit himself
bump because i want to hammer home to the q shills that no one cares