>NGAD
USAF program, first flight is likely soon, possibly '25, probably by '30. Put into service maybe around 5 years after that.
Intended to replace F-22, focus is on sensors and data over flight dynamics >F/A-XX
US Navy program, also sometimes called NGAD but that name is mostly dropped to avoid confusion. Will probaly come out after NGAD, obvious difference is carrier capability. Meant to replace Super Hornets and later F-35 >FCAS
UK, IT and JP. Also called Tempest by the Brits. These guys are next because they have early mock-ups and have enough experince and financing that it should be possible. Not as far along as the Americans but it is coming along. I'd hesitantly say 2040 for service entry >GCAP
GER, FR and SP. Less is known, which indicates progression is not very far along. The funding should be there but it may be that the experience is not as they were less involved with F-35. The other question is wether France and Germany can get along as this hasn't gone well previously
>Whatever China is doing
They might have something I guess. AFAIK, they haven't announced anything which may not be a good sign for them
>Mig-41
The chance of anything workable coming out of Mikoyan in future years is about the same as pigs flying
The guys at Skunkworks got really into vampire movies and decided to see how they could make something not show up in a mirror, turns out it works on cameras as well. The only way to see it is via second order effects or in person taking pictures just doesn't work.
America basically decides the fighter "gens".
Generally 6th gen features amount to: >optionally manned >visual stealth >advanced integration with drones (teaming/ai etc) >dual/adaptive cycle engines
All of which Tempest/GCAP is stated to have. Same for FCAS. China is probably aiming for that too but considering they've only just managed to get normal engines that are F-22 tier working they're probably way out.
https://i.imgur.com/9LqiSiD.jpg
Like are these next gen fighters even fighting anything besides desert fundamentalist and weather balloons?
Things are going to cost like 1/2 a billion dollars each and no Sky Marshal is going to risk one where the enemy has Anti Air missiles or interceptors
Chinks won't call it the J-28 because they already have the J-31/35. It'll probably be called J-50 or some shit idk.
Also I'm pretty sure the NGAD and the F/A-XX are two versions of the same jet, with the F/A-XX just having folding wings.
https://i.imgur.com/CMfYiKA.png
>NGAD
It is the fastest developing and most likely to be fielded of all projects.
I think that the Navy project will be deleted because these aren't 70's. >FCAS
Just started development and they have France at the helm, it will deliver more than expected but late and over budget. >GCAP
I genuinely do not believe that this will ever work because British companies are American subsidiaries and Japanese and Italians while having the tech, don't have the reason. >chink jet
Mig-25 2: Now With Even More CIA Fearmongering! >vatnik jet
lmao by the example of the Su-47, time-tables for the project can be multiplied by 3 and by that time, Russia existing is as equally as unlikely to happen.
>British companies are American subsidiaries
BAE is British. Japan and Italy need Eurofighter/F-15 replacements. If America sold Japs the F-22 they wouldn't be in GCAP.
>vatniks
They will release a dual seater Su-57, with fancy looking (but questionable engines) and drone controls. Claim it's the first 6th gen fighter, make 3 (2 of which crash) and then go back to making Flankers and Fulcrums gen 4.999++++++++++++
>Japan and Italy need Eurofighter/F-15 replacements.
Yeah, but why? >If America sold Japs the F-22 they wouldn't be in GCAP.
Why would they sell F-22 jets in 2023? >They will release a dual seater Su-57, with fancy looking (but questionable engines) and drone controls. Claim it's the first 6th gen fighter, make 3 (2 of which crash) and then go back to making Flankers and Fulcrums gen 4.999++++++++++++
kek, sounds about right
>Yeah, but why?
F-15 is 4th gen, getting old. They need new airsuperiority fighters to complement F-35.
>Yeah, but why?
Japan needs a long range punch against China for one. The F-35 while good, isn't the be all and end all in that category
F-35 is great, but can't perform as well at range in the Pacific theatre.
>why would they sell F-22 in 2023
I meant that if American's sold F-22 to key allies like Japan (and Australia) in mid 2000's they (Japan and others) wouldn't be looking into GCAP now.
>If America sold Japs the F-22 they wouldn't be in GCAP.
Not sure that's true. Before joining GCAP Lockheed Martin offered to participate in the F-X project and produce something like an F-35/F-22 hybrid (very similar to the deal ROK has with LM for the KF-21) but this was rejected by the Japanese government. Apparently Northrop Grumman also offered a modernized YF-23 but nothing came of it.
Because the Japanese generally do not like to collaborate with the USA ever since the FS-X project (not the F-X) in the 1980s and 1990s.
We backstabbed the shit out of them to force them to shut down the project (just like we did with their economy). Simply because we didn't want them to get too independent. By the end of it all, they got technology they were 10 years behind on but were practically forced to buy the F-16 which became the F-2.
Lockheed Martin offering to join in is a red herring. The Japanese in their heads were probably thinking "FUCK OFF".
The japanese asked to buy the F-22 in the early 2000's and the US told them to pound sand, japan took that personally and started development of a 5th gen, eventually they DID make a 5th gen demonstrator but the F-35 was already hitting good production rate by that point so japan (rightly) bought F-35s for 5th gen and transitioned their development/R&D effort towards 6th gen since the US was equally unlikely to offer the 6th gen air superiority fighter (NGAD) on the export market, just like with the F-22. So yeah, if the US wanted japan to not join GCAP they should've sold them the F-22 when they originally asked in the early 2000s, not ~20 years later when japan is a few billion dollars of R&D into developing their own 6th gen fighter.
Potentially internally at BAE, but publicly for years it was known only as the manned fighter component of the overarching program called FCAS (Future Combat Air Systems)
Now it's part of GCAP (Global Combat Air Programme)
Similarly, the USAF NGAD program in the US is ALSO an overarching program name the actual fighter is PCA (Penetrating Counter Air).
>AFAIK, they haven't announced anything which may not be a good sign for them
They won't announce unless it's flying. That was the case for both J20, FC31 or everything they have
At the very least it's better than the Sino-Flankers and at the most it will pose a challenge to F-22's (which are built with tech from the 90's) and the F-35 (who's primary role isn't air supremacy despite being very good at it).
>UK, IT and JP. Also called Tempest by the Brits. These guys are next because they have early mock-ups and have enough experince and financing that it should be possible. Not as far along as the Americans but it is coming along. I'd hesitantly say 2040 for service entry >I'd hesitantly say 2040 for service entry
My problem with any date this far out is the pace of change is increasing so fast that the odds of massive disruption makes 15+ years ever more unforeseeable. Like, at that point will 3D manufacturing be to the point where nearly any arbitrary design can just get pumped out with quantum accelerators and even general computing power allowing AI to change the face of design completely?
That itself is hard to predict but it's also hard not to feel like we're again looking at Old Space and sometime in the next 20 years a SpaceX could appear that just turns the entire field on its head. Particularly if there's actual shooting war.
Germany/Spain and UK/Italy were all part of Eurofighter which is the best non-US fighter in the air today, France has the Rafale which is a discount version of Eurofighter, Japan has never developed a modern fighter
In the air:
Germany + Spain = UK + Italy
France > Japan
All of this said, GCAP is about as credible as FCAS, but neither will be in the air before US 7th gen
>Japan has never developed a modern fighter
The F-2 is like 85%+ changed from the F-16.
They also entirely domestically developed the X-2 5th gen demonstrator. Which is more than any European nation has done in regards to 5th gen development.
To try and claim Japan is the LEAST experienced in the industry among the nations mentioned is laughable at best, and just a pure troll attempt at worst.
Eurofighter and Rafale are both top-down, ground up developments developed by these western european nations and there ~600 eurofighters and ~250 rafales in the air
> Under a memorandum of understanding signed in November 1988, General Dynamics would provide its F-16 Fighting Falcon technology to Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, and would handle up to 45 percent of the development work as a joint principal contractor
F-2 is simply the US giving Japan the F-16 and the Japanese modifying components here and there and there are only ~90 produced since the late 1980s
If anything for anybody to think that Japan is anywhere near Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain in air fighter technologies is an obvious troll
The reality is that even the chinks are > Japan by at least a decade in air fighter technology today
>i'll just totally ignore the X-2 in my reply because it blows my entier arguement out of the water.
Again, point to the 5th gen manned stealth airframe developed by any singular european nation.
The X-2 never entered production and would've needed to be scaled up for actual use as a fighter, but it's STILL further than ANY european nation has gotten even to this date.
FCAS isn't off the drawing boards and Tempest has basically confirmed it's using the Japanese XF-9 engines (developed from the X-2), and they're also almost assuredly using the Japanese low observability composites they developed for the F-X/X-2 program.
Again, to say Japan is somehow behind Spain/Germany/France/Italy when it comes to fighter development is so retarded it doesn't even seem possible unless you're just the moronshill troll trying to make japan look bad for no reason other than you're a broken troll.
They're also using a Japanese-based AESA radar since Europe has spent the last 2 decades playing catchup with AESA and still can't seem to get it right.
How many X-2s are operational today? What is their combat record?
Eurofighter and Rafale together have almost ~1000 units operational since development with close to that number still in the skies today, combat track record that goes back decades with almost as much combat experiences as some US fighter jets
There's nothing in the skies in the past ~80 years that has a made in Japan on it has ever even sniffed combat let unlike the NATO nations
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Japan makes a 5th gen demonstrator but buys F-35s for their actual use instead >somehow this means europe developing a 4th gen fighter is not only equivalent, but beyond japan's 5th gen demonstrator
wow, you really are the moronshill
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>5th gen airframes developed by and flown by japan
1 >5th gen airframes developed by and flown by Europe
0
It's pretty obviously just moronshill shitting the bed because any merit you can assign to Japan gives him an aneurysm. Next thing he'll do is pretend ROK is ackshually a 6th gen contender.
I’m concerned that 6th gen is fake, ie, there’s no generation capability addition over 5th gen. Loyal wingman? The Apache already does that and the same capability could be added to 5th gen. So does that transform 5th gens into 6th gens? Obviously not. So what’s the generational tech addition? AI piloting? DEW? What’s the point if it’s just drone teaming? Frankly even AI is just a CPU upgrade, something you could plug into any plane.
>Increased avionics, steath, BVR >increased data load, communication with satellite constellations, AI, ground, sea and air assets >virtual cockpit with 360 degree see through visibility >optional pilot, capable of remote control or AI control >AI wingman >increased range and speed >Laser CIWS
All of these are incremental upgrades, not a capability jump. A 5th gen lets you click your fingers and clear the skies from 4th gens, a 4th gen does the same to 3rd gens. As it stands right now 5th gens still very much have a fighting chance against 6th gens, they're just at a disadvantage
If that's the cut-off then 6th gen will need to come with E-War stuff standard i guess? Send a single 6th Gen and watch them steal all the drone swarms attached to the 5th gens and turn them on their old owners. Could theoretically be possible with a good enough computer and the right sort of sensors/whatever
What, like, our planes will kick enemy planes pilots out and replace them with our own pilots? And then the enemy plane falls in love with our pilots because they pilot them better than their old pilots ever did?
DEWs are a major increase in capability because the increased size and power generation of NGAD (and presumably other 6th gens) would allow the use of significantly more powerful lasers.
Stealth technology will also likely be significantly more advanced. As mentioned in OP's image, NGAD is to have visual stealth, likely active camouflage which at the very least be better than WWII-era Yehudi lights or the total lack of it.
It's going to be a change in design philosophy. A sensors 'mothership' shepherding a squadron of F-22+-tier drones that take all the risks and hump all the ordnance. Kinda like how the F-35's networking abilities are massively more important than any other one feature, you're looking at that idea taken to a new level.
Since FCAS now includes Japan and Italy it really should be renamed something to reflect it's international heritage, like New Global Air Dominance (NGAD)
Like are these next gen fighters even fighting anything besides desert fundamentalist and weather balloons?
Things are going to cost like 1/2 a billion dollars each and no Sky Marshal is going to risk one where the enemy has Anti Air missiles or interceptors
FCAS - glorified Eurofighter with drone. Frog probably will try make it carrier borne.
Tempest - glorified long range Naval fighter-bomber.
J-28 - a working F-35 copy.
NGAD - long range F-117 in steroid. Plus AWAC and drones command in one package.
FA/XX. - Biggest mystery out of all. I genuinely don't know what USN trying to do. F-35B/C is already solid Hornet/Super Hornet replacement. Perhaps some sort of ECM/EWAR/ASW platform? A Naval interceptor?
F-35 doesn't have the Super's range, while the Super was an attempt to get the F-18 to fill in the F-14's role.
FA/XX is going to be a true successor to the F-14 in capability.
Oh boy, another one of these retards. Defense spending accounts for such a small amount of the annual budget it's almost laughable. Entitlement spending is what you want to cut if you want to free up the real money. Also get your own Healthcare you jobless hippie, I'm not paying for you get your stomach pumped because you bought some weed laced with something and had a bad trip, maaaaaaaaaan. Also patchouli is not a replacement for hygiene, take a fucking shower.
Those get enough money as it is. US spends way more on education and health than other nations per captia its just the systems suck money down like a shart in mart with free refills from a soda fountian with no real improvement. Even doubling funding as is proven by our highest funded schools would just be setting money on fire becuase money isnt the issue.
Fixing them requires doing something besides dumping money at it IE burning it to ground and starting over fresh.
DARPA/NRO programs atleast make shit that ends up advancing the civilian market later on.
Doubling the money at the highest funded school just means a shit ton of money going to waste on inner city schools where the parents won't give 2 shits about the School district yelling at them for selling the school provided computer for crack money.
Doubling the money at lower funded schools just means that schools already performing on par with European/asian countries are going to have to figure out what to throw money at.
anon this chart is showing exact sizes and ranges and costs for a jet that isn't even done yet, let alone unclassified, I think anyone who isn't mentally ill should have the immediate response of "this is bullshit, isn't it?"
Those planes are slow and fat, though I wonder if lasers will finally allow the C-130 to face off against at least 3rd gen fighters without getting its shit pushed in.
The boring answer is counter-illumination which has been a method of active camo since WWII.
The cool answer is metamaterial-based active camouflage and technology unknown to the public.
NGAD has promise as it makes having a dozen carrier fleets unnecessary as you can now just beef up your coastal air bases and refueling fleet and have the same firepower but less vulnerable to the chinks yoloing a bunch of missiles at it.
You spend a lot of fuel flying from coast to chinkland to drop a couple of bombs instead of just doing it from a nice airstrip parked off their coast after they've been defanged.
NGAD obviously, the real competition is whether anyone else can produce a 6th gen and do so in a reasonable timeframe. Of those other projects I think GCAP has the best shot, and if so I think it'll become the 6th gen of choice for countries without the budget to develop their own. Of course that's assuming the US doesn't export NGAD, but given that every country with need of a 6th gen is developing their own I imagine the US has signalled behind closed doors that it will not be for sale.
Probably. It’s just know reaching deployability in ground systems but it’s not miniaturized yet. It might be relegated to a dedicated loyal wingman platform unless NGAD has about a decade left before deployment
the main issue with optics has always been the limitations with physics of lenses. Plane mounted one will also be a bitch to cool with that energy output. I wonder if pilot visors on helmets will have a welder like autogating feature for lasers
Eh, I don’t actually think it would be that big a deal if it’s just used as a CIWS. It’s there to be sure you don’t lose everything to a single missile, not to tank the entire air defence of China.
But, again, heat would be another reason to relegate it to loyal wingman escorts.
>NGAD
It is the fastest developing and most likely to be fielded of all projects.
I think that the Navy project will be deleted because these aren't 70's. >FCAS
Just started development and they have France at the helm, it will deliver more than expected but late and over budget. >GCAP
I genuinely do not believe that this will ever work because British companies are American subsidiaries and Japanese and Italians while having the tech, don't have the reason. >chink jet
Mig-25 2: Now With Even More CIA Fearmongering! >vatnik jet
lmao by the example of the Su-47, time-tables for the project can be multiplied by 3 and by that time, Russia existing is as equally as unlikely to happen.
So what, have a manned 6th gen with long distance capability being the eyes and ears of drones that get launched from me 'mothership' that will engage in air to air or air to ground combat?
reduced risk of losing pilots so less pilots needed to train and maintain fewer larger aircrafts. leaving the drones to be disposable and possibly be suicide drones when all munitions are depleted?
>Do 90% of the work to finish your 5th gen jet >Realize you're still 20 years behind the US, attempt to rectify this >spend the next 10 years hacking shit into the air frame and just not getting it to work correctly >It's now 2040 >The US is starting to look at the F-35 replacement program >The typical advancements mean that the F-35 is a better Fighter than your own purpose built fighter that is only now starting to be fielded >Only make 100 total and ruin the next 20 years of procurement >Oh look the US is starting it's NGAD replacement program now
The greatest proponents of SA joining FCAS is the UK who are largely leading the FCAS program, Japan is opposed to SA joining with Italy following the UK lead
GCAP is UK/Italy/Japan/Sweden(?) and maybe Saudi Arabia.
I think Saudi's have a better chance of being a primary customer as opposed to a developing partner. What do they really bring to the table besides funding?
Whichever one shuts down the southern border and prevents the demographic decline of White people. What's the point of 8th gen aircraft with only squatamalans, blacks or mystery meats to fly them?
maybe the nocap
or the frfr
ongod
Bruh :skull: no way bro really said this :skull: :skull: :sob: :sob: :sob:
yo check out diz yeezy slide bruh
In order of when they are likely to arrive
>NGAD
USAF program, first flight is likely soon, possibly '25, probably by '30. Put into service maybe around 5 years after that.
Intended to replace F-22, focus is on sensors and data over flight dynamics
>F/A-XX
US Navy program, also sometimes called NGAD but that name is mostly dropped to avoid confusion. Will probaly come out after NGAD, obvious difference is carrier capability. Meant to replace Super Hornets and later F-35
>FCAS
UK, IT and JP. Also called Tempest by the Brits. These guys are next because they have early mock-ups and have enough experince and financing that it should be possible. Not as far along as the Americans but it is coming along. I'd hesitantly say 2040 for service entry
>GCAP
GER, FR and SP. Less is known, which indicates progression is not very far along. The funding should be there but it may be that the experience is not as they were less involved with F-35. The other question is wether France and Germany can get along as this hasn't gone well previously
>Whatever China is doing
They might have something I guess. AFAIK, they haven't announced anything which may not be a good sign for them
>Mig-41
The chance of anything workable coming out of Mikoyan in future years is about the same as pigs flying
Er isn't one of the requirements for NGAD visual stealth? I think that will shove the thing back for a while.
oh ye of little faith.
>NG develops colored stealth paint
>paint the bottom blue and the top woodland fractal
done
The guys at Skunkworks got really into vampire movies and decided to see how they could make something not show up in a mirror, turns out it works on cameras as well. The only way to see it is via second order effects or in person taking pictures just doesn't work.
>Tailless upgraded F-15. Here is your NGAD brah.
Everyone but the US is baslicly just making gen 5 fighters in their programs though. They are basicly just raptor or f35 equivalents.
America basically decides the fighter "gens".
Generally 6th gen features amount to:
>optionally manned
>visual stealth
>advanced integration with drones (teaming/ai etc)
>dual/adaptive cycle engines
All of which Tempest/GCAP is stated to have. Same for FCAS. China is probably aiming for that too but considering they've only just managed to get normal engines that are F-22 tier working they're probably way out.
Chinks won't call it the J-28 because they already have the J-31/35. It'll probably be called J-50 or some shit idk.
Also I'm pretty sure the NGAD and the F/A-XX are two versions of the same jet, with the F/A-XX just having folding wings.
>British companies are American subsidiaries
BAE is British. Japan and Italy need Eurofighter/F-15 replacements. If America sold Japs the F-22 they wouldn't be in GCAP.
>vatniks
They will release a dual seater Su-57, with fancy looking (but questionable engines) and drone controls. Claim it's the first 6th gen fighter, make 3 (2 of which crash) and then go back to making Flankers and Fulcrums gen 4.999++++++++++++
>Japan and Italy need Eurofighter/F-15 replacements.
Yeah, but why?
>If America sold Japs the F-22 they wouldn't be in GCAP.
Why would they sell F-22 jets in 2023?
>They will release a dual seater Su-57, with fancy looking (but questionable engines) and drone controls. Claim it's the first 6th gen fighter, make 3 (2 of which crash) and then go back to making Flankers and Fulcrums gen 4.999++++++++++++
kek, sounds about right
>Yeah, but why?
F-15 is 4th gen, getting old. They need new airsuperiority fighters to complement F-35.
>Yeah, but why?
Japan needs a long range punch against China for one. The F-35 while good, isn't the be all and end all in that category
>why
Basically what these guys said.
F-35 is great, but can't perform as well at range in the Pacific theatre.
>why would they sell F-22 in 2023
I meant that if American's sold F-22 to key allies like Japan (and Australia) in mid 2000's they (Japan and others) wouldn't be looking into GCAP now.
>If America sold Japs the F-22 they wouldn't be in GCAP.
Not sure that's true. Before joining GCAP Lockheed Martin offered to participate in the F-X project and produce something like an F-35/F-22 hybrid (very similar to the deal ROK has with LM for the KF-21) but this was rejected by the Japanese government. Apparently Northrop Grumman also offered a modernized YF-23 but nothing came of it.
Because the Japanese generally do not like to collaborate with the USA ever since the FS-X project (not the F-X) in the 1980s and 1990s.
We backstabbed the shit out of them to force them to shut down the project (just like we did with their economy). Simply because we didn't want them to get too independent. By the end of it all, they got technology they were 10 years behind on but were practically forced to buy the F-16 which became the F-2.
Lockheed Martin offering to join in is a red herring. The Japanese in their heads were probably thinking "FUCK OFF".
The japanese asked to buy the F-22 in the early 2000's and the US told them to pound sand, japan took that personally and started development of a 5th gen, eventually they DID make a 5th gen demonstrator but the F-35 was already hitting good production rate by that point so japan (rightly) bought F-35s for 5th gen and transitioned their development/R&D effort towards 6th gen since the US was equally unlikely to offer the 6th gen air superiority fighter (NGAD) on the export market, just like with the F-22. So yeah, if the US wanted japan to not join GCAP they should've sold them the F-22 when they originally asked in the early 2000s, not ~20 years later when japan is a few billion dollars of R&D into developing their own 6th gen fighter.
a wall of text that says nothing
safe opinions, no data. go back, gay.
>>Mig-41
>The chance of anything workable coming out of Mikoyan in future years is about the same as pigs flying
TELlllll ME WHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
You mixed up FCAS and GCAP. FCAS is German/French/Spanish, GCAP is British/Italian/Japanese.
Probably because GCAP used to be called FCAS as well.
For awhile we had NGAD, NGAD(F/A-XX), FCAS, and FCAS.
Now we have NGAD(PCA), NGAD(F/A-XX), FCAS, and GCAP.
Didn't it just used to be called BAE Systems Tempest?
Potentially internally at BAE, but publicly for years it was known only as the manned fighter component of the overarching program called FCAS (Future Combat Air Systems)
Now it's part of GCAP (Global Combat Air Programme)
Similarly, the USAF NGAD program in the US is ALSO an overarching program name the actual fighter is PCA (Penetrating Counter Air).
You mixed up the GCAP and FCAS retard.
>pigs flying
you're not going to believe this
>AFAIK, they haven't announced anything which may not be a good sign for them
They won't announce unless it's flying. That was the case for both J20, FC31 or everything they have
J20 sucks though, so...
At the very least it's better than the Sino-Flankers and at the most it will pose a challenge to F-22's (which are built with tech from the 90's) and the F-35 (who's primary role isn't air supremacy despite being very good at it).
>UK, IT and JP. Also called Tempest by the Brits. These guys are next because they have early mock-ups and have enough experince and financing that it should be possible. Not as far along as the Americans but it is coming along. I'd hesitantly say 2040 for service entry
>I'd hesitantly say 2040 for service entry
My problem with any date this far out is the pace of change is increasing so fast that the odds of massive disruption makes 15+ years ever more unforeseeable. Like, at that point will 3D manufacturing be to the point where nearly any arbitrary design can just get pumped out with quantum accelerators and even general computing power allowing AI to change the face of design completely?
That itself is hard to predict but it's also hard not to feel like we're again looking at Old Space and sometime in the next 20 years a SpaceX could appear that just turns the entire field on its head. Particularly if there's actual shooting war.
Germany, France and Spain > UK, Italy and Japan
Germany/Spain and UK/Italy were all part of Eurofighter which is the best non-US fighter in the air today, France has the Rafale which is a discount version of Eurofighter, Japan has never developed a modern fighter
In the air:
Germany + Spain = UK + Italy
France > Japan
All of this said, GCAP is about as credible as FCAS, but neither will be in the air before US 7th gen
>Japan has never developed a modern fighter
The F-2 is like 85%+ changed from the F-16.
They also entirely domestically developed the X-2 5th gen demonstrator. Which is more than any European nation has done in regards to 5th gen development.
To try and claim Japan is the LEAST experienced in the industry among the nations mentioned is laughable at best, and just a pure troll attempt at worst.
Eurofighter and Rafale are both top-down, ground up developments developed by these western european nations and there ~600 eurofighters and ~250 rafales in the air
> Under a memorandum of understanding signed in November 1988, General Dynamics would provide its F-16 Fighting Falcon technology to Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, and would handle up to 45 percent of the development work as a joint principal contractor
F-2 is simply the US giving Japan the F-16 and the Japanese modifying components here and there and there are only ~90 produced since the late 1980s
If anything for anybody to think that Japan is anywhere near Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain in air fighter technologies is an obvious troll
The reality is that even the chinks are > Japan by at least a decade in air fighter technology today
>i'll just totally ignore the X-2 in my reply because it blows my entier arguement out of the water.
Again, point to the 5th gen manned stealth airframe developed by any singular european nation.
The X-2 never entered production and would've needed to be scaled up for actual use as a fighter, but it's STILL further than ANY european nation has gotten even to this date.
FCAS isn't off the drawing boards and Tempest has basically confirmed it's using the Japanese XF-9 engines (developed from the X-2), and they're also almost assuredly using the Japanese low observability composites they developed for the F-X/X-2 program.
Again, to say Japan is somehow behind Spain/Germany/France/Italy when it comes to fighter development is so retarded it doesn't even seem possible unless you're just the moronshill troll trying to make japan look bad for no reason other than you're a broken troll.
They're also using a Japanese-based AESA radar since Europe has spent the last 2 decades playing catchup with AESA and still can't seem to get it right.
How many X-2s are operational today? What is their combat record?
Eurofighter and Rafale together have almost ~1000 units operational since development with close to that number still in the skies today, combat track record that goes back decades with almost as much combat experiences as some US fighter jets
There's nothing in the skies in the past ~80 years that has a made in Japan on it has ever even sniffed combat let unlike the NATO nations
>Japan makes a 5th gen demonstrator but buys F-35s for their actual use instead
>somehow this means europe developing a 4th gen fighter is not only equivalent, but beyond japan's 5th gen demonstrator
wow, you really are the moronshill
>5th gen airframes developed by and flown by japan
1
>5th gen airframes developed by and flown by Europe
0
oof
> moronshill
Obvously the chud weeb, sadly weebs have given Japan a poor image globally at the grass roots level due to the conflation of weebery with chudism
It's pretty obviously just moronshill shitting the bed because any merit you can assign to Japan gives him an aneurysm. Next thing he'll do is pretend ROK is ackshually a 6th gen contender.
I’m concerned that 6th gen is fake, ie, there’s no generation capability addition over 5th gen. Loyal wingman? The Apache already does that and the same capability could be added to 5th gen. So does that transform 5th gens into 6th gens? Obviously not. So what’s the generational tech addition? AI piloting? DEW? What’s the point if it’s just drone teaming? Frankly even AI is just a CPU upgrade, something you could plug into any plane.
>Increased avionics, steath, BVR
>increased data load, communication with satellite constellations, AI, ground, sea and air assets
>virtual cockpit with 360 degree see through visibility
>optional pilot, capable of remote control or AI control
>AI wingman
>increased range and speed
>Laser CIWS
All of these are incremental upgrades, not a capability jump. A 5th gen lets you click your fingers and clear the skies from 4th gens, a 4th gen does the same to 3rd gens. As it stands right now 5th gens still very much have a fighting chance against 6th gens, they're just at a disadvantage
If that's the cut-off then 6th gen will need to come with E-War stuff standard i guess? Send a single 6th Gen and watch them steal all the drone swarms attached to the 5th gens and turn them on their old owners. Could theoretically be possible with a good enough computer and the right sort of sensors/whatever
>5th gen
>stealth
>6th gen
>NTR
>NTR
What, like, our planes will kick enemy planes pilots out and replace them with our own pilots? And then the enemy plane falls in love with our pilots because they pilot them better than their old pilots ever did?
it's mostly about being able to do what the F-35 and F-22 can do but at Pacific Theater ranges
DEWs are a major increase in capability because the increased size and power generation of NGAD (and presumably other 6th gens) would allow the use of significantly more powerful lasers.
Stealth technology will also likely be significantly more advanced. As mentioned in OP's image, NGAD is to have visual stealth, likely active camouflage which at the very least be better than WWII-era Yehudi lights or the total lack of it.
It's going to be a change in design philosophy. A sensors 'mothership' shepherding a squadron of F-22+-tier drones that take all the risks and hump all the ordnance. Kinda like how the F-35's networking abilities are massively more important than any other one feature, you're looking at that idea taken to a new level.
NGAD, then the chink shit.
everything else is vaporware
Since FCAS now includes Japan and Italy it really should be renamed something to reflect it's international heritage, like New Global Air Dominance (NGAD)
What if the NGAD flew sideways to reduce its visual profile?
the side would be the new front and it wouldn't be flying sideways anymore, genius
Like are these next gen fighters even fighting anything besides desert fundamentalist and weather balloons?
Things are going to cost like 1/2 a billion dollars each and no Sky Marshal is going to risk one where the enemy has Anti Air missiles or interceptors
FCAS - glorified Eurofighter with drone. Frog probably will try make it carrier borne.
Tempest - glorified long range Naval fighter-bomber.
J-28 - a working F-35 copy.
NGAD - long range F-117 in steroid. Plus AWAC and drones command in one package.
FA/XX. - Biggest mystery out of all. I genuinely don't know what USN trying to do. F-35B/C is already solid Hornet/Super Hornet replacement. Perhaps some sort of ECM/EWAR/ASW platform? A Naval interceptor?
FA/XX is just a sea-borne NGAD, granted i'll assume everything that can be miniaturized will be to fit as many on a carrier as possible.
F-35 doesn't have the Super's range, while the Super was an attempt to get the F-18 to fill in the F-14's role.
FA/XX is going to be a true successor to the F-14 in capability.
Wonder if you can make a stealthy swing-wing.
iirc Northrop Grumman looked into making a stealthcat at one point
>F-35B/C is already solid Hornet/Super Hornet replacement.
The USN has never really liked the F-35.
Because of the range? I know they haven't liked it too much, but I don't know enough about USN or the 35 to understand why.
most uggo generation ever. If the NGAD's silhouette actually looks like that I'll cry.
F22 and F35 are actually beautiful (f35 tummy especially so).
It doesn't
300 million per plane...
Shouldn't we be using this money to build schools and homes and fund healthcare?
That's what the ayylmao's want us to do.
That's retarded. We need to order more of them until the scale drops the cost below current f-35 prices
Oh boy, another one of these retards. Defense spending accounts for such a small amount of the annual budget it's almost laughable. Entitlement spending is what you want to cut if you want to free up the real money. Also get your own Healthcare you jobless hippie, I'm not paying for you get your stomach pumped because you bought some weed laced with something and had a bad trip, maaaaaaaaaan. Also patchouli is not a replacement for hygiene, take a fucking shower.
Those get enough money as it is. US spends way more on education and health than other nations per captia its just the systems suck money down like a shart in mart with free refills from a soda fountian with no real improvement. Even doubling funding as is proven by our highest funded schools would just be setting money on fire becuase money isnt the issue.
Fixing them requires doing something besides dumping money at it IE burning it to ground and starting over fresh.
DARPA/NRO programs atleast make shit that ends up advancing the civilian market later on.
Doubling the money at the highest funded school just means a shit ton of money going to waste on inner city schools where the parents won't give 2 shits about the School district yelling at them for selling the school provided computer for crack money.
Doubling the money at lower funded schools just means that schools already performing on par with European/asian countries are going to have to figure out what to throw money at.
God I hope it doesn't look like that, that's just a big stupid triangle.
anon this chart is showing exact sizes and ranges and costs for a jet that isn't even done yet, let alone unclassified, I think anyone who isn't mentally ill should have the immediate response of "this is bullshit, isn't it?"
What's even the point when we could just be spamming cruise missiles using Rapid Dragons from C-130s and C-17s?
Those planes are slow and fat, though I wonder if lasers will finally allow the C-130 to face off against at least 3rd gen fighters without getting its shit pushed in.
Same as the B52, but It doesn't matter since you're launching long range cruise missiles beyond the interception range of enemy aircraft and SAMs.
>Stealth (radar, IR, visual)
>visual
The boring answer is counter-illumination which has been a method of active camo since WWII.
The cool answer is metamaterial-based active camouflage and technology unknown to the public.
NGAD
FCAS is already a fail due to the french wanting to use it for carriers.
USN NGAD (F/A-XX) is also intended to be used on carriers but still has a similar set of requirements and projected capabilities to the USAF NGAD.
Promising as in would be the coolest if it lived up to its potential? The NGAD.
Promising as in actually likely to actually exist? Tempest.
>Tempest is more likely to exist than NGAD
give me whatever you're smoking
NGAD has promise as it makes having a dozen carrier fleets unnecessary as you can now just beef up your coastal air bases and refueling fleet and have the same firepower but less vulnerable to the chinks yoloing a bunch of missiles at it.
You spend a lot of fuel flying from coast to chinkland to drop a couple of bombs instead of just doing it from a nice airstrip parked off their coast after they've been defanged.
NGAD obviously, the real competition is whether anyone else can produce a 6th gen and do so in a reasonable timeframe. Of those other projects I think GCAP has the best shot, and if so I think it'll become the 6th gen of choice for countries without the budget to develop their own. Of course that's assuming the US doesn't export NGAD, but given that every country with need of a 6th gen is developing their own I imagine the US has signalled behind closed doors that it will not be for sale.
Will we be getting laser missile defence on 6th gen aircraft? God I fucking hope so
Probably. It’s just know reaching deployability in ground systems but it’s not miniaturized yet. It might be relegated to a dedicated loyal wingman platform unless NGAD has about a decade left before deployment
the main issue with optics has always been the limitations with physics of lenses. Plane mounted one will also be a bitch to cool with that energy output. I wonder if pilot visors on helmets will have a welder like autogating feature for lasers
>will also be a bitch to cool with that energy output
Just air cool it innit? If you're that high up going that fast just use that
Eh, I don’t actually think it would be that big a deal if it’s just used as a CIWS. It’s there to be sure you don’t lose everything to a single missile, not to tank the entire air defence of China.
But, again, heat would be another reason to relegate it to loyal wingman escorts.
>NGAD
It is the fastest developing and most likely to be fielded of all projects.
I think that the Navy project will be deleted because these aren't 70's.
>FCAS
Just started development and they have France at the helm, it will deliver more than expected but late and over budget.
>GCAP
I genuinely do not believe that this will ever work because British companies are American subsidiaries and Japanese and Italians while having the tech, don't have the reason.
>chink jet
Mig-25 2: Now With Even More CIA Fearmongering!
>vatnik jet
lmao by the example of the Su-47, time-tables for the project can be multiplied by 3 and by that time, Russia existing is as equally as unlikely to happen.
>Can only travel 1000 nanometers
So it's literally stationary?
It's HUGE if true: the first (almost) Immovable Object
So what, have a manned 6th gen with long distance capability being the eyes and ears of drones that get launched from me 'mothership' that will engage in air to air or air to ground combat?
reduced risk of losing pilots so less pilots needed to train and maintain fewer larger aircrafts. leaving the drones to be disposable and possibly be suicide drones when all munitions are depleted?
everyone will wait for the US to define what 6th gen means, and then adjust their designs accordingly
>Do 90% of the work to finish your 5th gen jet
>Realize you're still 20 years behind the US, attempt to rectify this
>spend the next 10 years hacking shit into the air frame and just not getting it to work correctly
>It's now 2040
>The US is starting to look at the F-35 replacement program
>The typical advancements mean that the F-35 is a better Fighter than your own purpose built fighter that is only now starting to be fielded
>Only make 100 total and ruin the next 20 years of procurement
>Oh look the US is starting it's NGAD replacement program now
Forgot to add
>Go to war with the US using your finally finished hackjob Gen 6 jets
>get bombed into the stoneage by a fleet of B-52s
>using lowercase nm for nautical miles
prime burgercore
It's gonna end up looking nothing like that, isn't it?
Flying pizza slice
FCAS is UK + Italy + Japan + Saudi Arabia
The greatest proponents of SA joining FCAS is the UK who are largely leading the FCAS program, Japan is opposed to SA joining with Italy following the UK lead
No, FCAS is Spain/Germany/France
GCAP is UK/Italy/Japan/Sweden(?) and maybe Saudi Arabia.
I think Saudi's have a better chance of being a primary customer as opposed to a developing partner. What do they really bring to the table besides funding?
Whichever one shuts down the southern border and prevents the demographic decline of White people. What's the point of 8th gen aircraft with only squatamalans, blacks or mystery meats to fly them?