>Man that spends all of his time shooting guns >Women and trannies
You ever see a man lifting something heavy and say to yourself "I bet a 100 pound woman could do that."?
I guarantee the same guys would be way more nimble and fluid with an AR. They're obviously experienced but despite that the rifle still looks cumbersome for them.
Considering they only had 20 rounds of high pressure ammo so almost all of the rounds they’re shooting on camera are watered down brass case, and the handful of hybrid rounds we see them fire are from the prone or a tripod? Well there sure doesn’t seem to be any indication that it isn’t.
Holy shit, you just hit on the real reason for 6.8x51. It's not about terminal effectiveness or ballistics or anything, it's about filtering the women and trannies out of the infantry in a way that neverserveds and noguns can't even comprehend.
The Army citied it as a requirement, and with regular SMK projectiles can get a 2 round penetration. With a projectile that is hardened or has a penetrator the round will zip through a lvl 4 plate. Even the regular .277 loading with the full brass case almost penetrates in one round in the video.
>so no source
No one is going to spoon-feed you, Black person. Learn how to use Google.
1 year ago
Anonymous
So no source
1 year ago
Anonymous
>confirmed 80IQ Black person.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm not one to scoff at the burden of proof but >https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/Equipment/Equipment-Portfolio/Project-Manager-Soldier-Lethality-Portfolio/Next-Generation-Squad-Weapons-Program/
Is literally the third google result for "ngsw program"
1 year ago
Anonymous
penetration of level 4 armor is mentioned nowhere in that article
>With a projectile that is hardened or has a penetrator the round will zip through a lvl 4 plate.
no not really, weve already shown that some civ-available plates, as well as esapis, can stop m80a1-esc threats at high velocities (300 win chad) Without tungsten you aren't getting through anything but bottom of the bucket ceramics, esapis and the like are significantly more durable.
>If you kept up with the development of the NGSW program you'll know this was doomed from the start.
Then explain how 2 FMJ bullets in the video almost had first round penetrations, lol. All you gotta do it watch the video anon linked.
>almost had first round penetrations
those are normal amounts of bfd, a quality plate would stop five more with moderate spacing.
Even if it failed to penetrate on first round, that's a lot of kinetic energy being transferred. Guaranteed to knock someone off-balanced and induce an adrenaline rush.
literally within nij spec for bfd with the shittiest lv4s out there
>mystery meat chinkshit gets penetrated by FMJ! XM5 sisters we did it!!!
That is a 5.7 lb 10x12 alumina plate. Do you know how much other 10x12 Level IV alumina plates weigh?
I’ll tell you: About 7.5 lb (look at the Hesco 4401 or Highcom 4s17m). Now, even if it had a foam ring, what reason do we have to believe that this no-name company selling cheap armor with no cited lab results would be ahead of everyone else’s AlO weight-protection curve? Hell, it’s not even particularly easy (and much more expensive) to make a 5.7 lb Level 4 plate with *silicon carbide*. And that’s before we account for the need to add drop protection to the strikeface, as is required for NIJ .06 compliance.
Then consider that the other videos of “Guard Dog Level IV” plates practically all:
1. Display sub-NIJ threats (surplus M2 AP is about 150 FPS below NIJ spec out of a Garand)
2. Are shot at plates in carriers (sometimes even at an angle, wut???) that are not secured tightly against a backer of generally appropriate weight or hardness, making bullets easier to stop.
3. MOST IMPORTANTLY: Are conducted against *6.5 lb* plates rather than the 5.7 lb plate seen in the NGSW video. RMA 1192 special, anyone?
There is simply no reason to believe this armor is representative of something like the LTC26300 which is of similar weight and made of much better materials, and that’s before we even start talking about absurdly tough plates like the Adept Armor Colossus. There’s fair reason to be skeptical that this Guard Dog Level IV plate even truly meets Level IV standards at all.
>To be fair no one knew that before the Russo-Ukrainian War
This. Reminder that we saw shit like pic related from Russia during the invasion of Crimea.
>Reminder that we saw shit like pic related from Russia during the invasion of Crimea.
This is a combat engineer, a very specific role in limited numbers, not really russia pretending they can mass issue body armor.
the fat neverserved larpers from /arg/ or /gq/ don't actually go "innawoods" like they claim.
They drive their parents' beat to shit car to the local park or patch of trees and take all of their gear and carefully place it at the foot of the nearest tree and take a handful of photos with their fully charged smartphones.
The anons you see who are wearing gear get changed at home, drive out to the quietest spot in their local national park and carefully set up all of their Army man LARP costume gear so it looks like they're ready to "use it" or "train how they fight" or "run their gear"
They probably have a sad little foldable camera stand with a bluetooth remote or they balance their phone against something and set the camera timer to 10 seconds and quickly run back so that they can pose for their photo and pretend that it's a candid shot of them "operating"
On the way back they stop and buy fast food and get self conscious at going through the drive-through window and being seen wearing gear as they order 48 chicken nuggets and a thickshake on a Monday afternoon when most people are at work.
Poing this out and they will tell you to "die for israel"
None of the OEF/OIF vets who used to post here did 15 months on deployment fighting up Takur Ghar, Fallujah, Ramadi etc. then went stateside and bought their own IBA and ALICE webbing and took photos of themselves in their local national park wearing 200lbs of gear whilst shitting themselves with dysentery not showering for a month and wearing the same cammies with the crotch blown out and holes burned in it.
The entire "boogaloo" or "boog" shit is just a gigantic neverserved cope to jerk off the fantasy of shooting someone in real life and the only way they can imagine doing that is in some dumb 'last stand' against the cops who for some reason want to do a no-knock raid because the /k/ poster said Black person on the internet so therefore he is the righteous underdog and will die 'based' and 'redpilled'
how do you suggest one copes with the fact that his nations military never deploys and is a welfare scheme so even of you join you'll never do nothing?
You can volunteer in your community and actually help people. Become a paramedic or a firefighter or something. The reality of being infantry is lame anyways. If you want to do outdoor stuff, drop the LARPing with a rifle and other gear you don't need aspect and there's cool adventurous stuff you can do.
It’s sad that a lot of people, real non-Canadian, non-European people think this. If you made an effort to make some friends you could go out and train and just as heavily as any Youtuber, and if you get into your local competition scene and diligently practice you can quickly become a better shooter than any infantryman. There are people in all of the general threads you mentioned who do this regularly, and you could too if you had any motivation (having served as a regular infantryman is a sign of extremely low motivation). I hope you get in shape and do the things you want to do, and I hope that the people who pretend to live a lifestyle they can’t manage also develop the discipline required to do so.
>put in all this money, time, and effort >manage to assemble a squad size element, or maybe even 2 squads between you and all your buddies >still get your shit pushed in in any real world combat, because your squads lack the firepower to even effectively fire and maneuver due to lack of machine guns, not to mention the heavy weapons, intelligence capabilities, and logistics capabilities that infantry organized beyond autonomous squad size elements has at their disposal
I’m not sure if I can switch the gestalt switch for you but think more about the likely distribution of resources and armament were any of this to become relevant. Also consider the limitations which might be imposed upon use of air support if your targets were interspersed with your vital infrastructure.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I’m not sure if I can switch the gestalt switch for you but think more about the likely distribution of resources and armament were any of this to become relevant
You mean on the side that's trying to maintain the status quo. Rather than the side that's so high on their power fantasies that they think they can order society at large around by throwing violent temper tantrums like a child, despite lacking capabilities that squads had back in WWII or even organization beyond the squad level?
1 year ago
Anonymous
You’re really far afield at this point. I can understand how it would be difficult for a discharged soldier to form a sense of autonomy and the drive required to develop yourself and your friends to a high standard without being yelled at by a butch in a flat brimmed cap. But there are people who train BJJ, for instance, every day, without being bothered by the possibility of their opponents having machine guns. There is a place and time for different levels of force and I know I wouldn’t sleep well if I didn’t do my best to prepare to protect what I care about. If any of this becomes relevant it won’t be a squad vs the entire intact, united US military; the status quo will no longer be in place to maintain. God bless you buddy.
source please
[...]
no, that would be www.reddit.com/k/
so no source
So no source
penetration of level 4 armor is mentioned nowhere in that article
so hey, uh... moron?
the entire purpose of the program was to uh deal with this problem: >"The driving problem which the NGSW program was intended to solve was that the M4 with its 5.56 NATO round could not reliably pierce newer versions of Russian- or Chinese-made body armor worn by potential adversaries, particularly at longer ranges."
It very much was about penetrating those plates.
That said they never explicitly made it a requirement, and kept things open ended for some moronic reason.
Hence why it was doomed from the start.
>NIJ Level 4 is rated to stop a 166gr TUNGSTEN CORE 7.62mm bullet @2880 FPS (+/- 30FPS margin of error) >Sig .277 Fury is a 135gr STEEL CORE 6.8mm bullet at 3000 FPS out of a 16" barrel (the military will be using a 13")
If you kept up with the development of the NGSW program you'll know this was doomed from the start.
>Then explain how 2 FMJ bullets in the video almost had first round penetrations, lol.
They didn’t. That’s normal when hit by and full sized rifle caliber.
> https://m.youtube.com/@BuffRANGE
Plenty of videos here. Yes 6.8 will cause more BFD than .308 because it is slightly more powerful than .308 from a full length barrel. But it’s not more powerful than .300 WM, .300 RUM, and so on. If there’s less BFD on other plates it’s because they are better
>135 grain at 2900 FPS from a 13" barrel with the hybrid case >previous reports were 3000 FPS from a 16" barrel with the hybrid case >Sig now lists a hybrid case load on their website that throws a 150 grain bullet at 2830 FPS from a 16" barrel
Okay, now I'm kind of impressed.
, they're looking at 2900 FPS from the 13" barrel, the 135 grain projectile has comparable sectional density to the 166 grain M2AP, and they're getting almost complete penetration with plain lead core ammo. The ridiculous armor piercing goals you see people post about are bullshit, but this will have no problem punching plates at CQB distances when loaded with anything that offers better penetration than basic lead core ammo.
The M2AP not being tungsten cored is my bad, but I'd dispute the penetration and the utility even if it did penetrate.
It's a test on mystery meat armor from a Chinese reseller, and even that stopped two rounds in the same area.
And even if it did penetrate it, it's almost certainly at only CQB distances which isn't that useful, especially when you remember that it affects basically every other aspect of the gun.
>better long range preformance seeing everyone has a magnified optic these days
How is this a bad thing? >but muh armor
AP would easily pen and who do you think we'll be fighting with armor? Russia (kek) or China with chinese quality control.
>135 grain at 2900 FPS from a 13" barrel with the hybrid case >previous reports were 3000 FPS from a 16" barrel with the hybrid case >Sig now lists a hybrid case load on their website that throws a 150 grain bullet at 2830 FPS from a 16" barrel
Okay, now I'm kind of impressed.
Even if it failed to penetrate on first round, that's a lot of kinetic energy being transferred. Guaranteed to knock someone off-balanced and induce an adrenaline rush.
>300 win mag can use leihigh xtreme pentrators
Lehigh doesn’t make them in .30 cal >that will penetrate level iv armor
Doubtful when steel core doesn’t. Steel is much harder than copper >and is about 4k fps from a 16" barrel
Lol no. Post load data
So before 2030, the US is going to have: >a standard issue rifle that will defeat the current go to body armor at CQB distances >smart scopes that will allow the average infantryman to engage at distances that were previously at the outer reaches of what a designated marksman could reach >a crazy video game like situational awareness ecosystem for infantry, between the IVAS HUDs for the average infantryman, the smart scopes that allow for spotting of targets, squad level drones, and more >daytime Predator heat vision for infantry with the IVAS >lasers mounted on JLTVs that can take down small drones, and lasers mounted on Strykers that can take down larger drones, artillery, mortars, and helicopters >more stuff I'm forgetting >zero illusion that any non US allied country is even a remotely near peer force
What 3rd world shit hole are we going to get to see this tested on, and how hard are they going to get roflstomped?
The overmatch is there but comes with a bunch of BS added in. >rifle
heavy, frickhuge recoil, and almost half the basic combat load of an M4 >smart scopes
The smart optics only calculate for range but still require the grunt to be able to get the reticle on target. No windage adjustments or stabilizers built in. >video game HUD
IVAS might get its teething issues solved this decade, but I bet it is more towards 2030 than towards present day. Last I heard they still had issues with fogging during movements and problems with perception along the edges. >drones
The squad level drones aren't nearly as capable as a commercial DJI. >lasers
I hope the lasers live up to their potential because it would be awesome
TLDR the future is now, but with lots of caveats
>Last I heard they still had issues with fogging during movements
I expect a source on that.
>problems with perception along the edges.
The problem was that fused imagery in the last 5 degrees on each side wasn't within 1 miliradian (or about 3.6" at 100 yards) of its true position, and that was already solved early last year. Only issue I'm aware of currently is it sounds like they might be having problems with it chafing soldiers' faces and want to redesign the form factor, but the first unit was equipped with test units last year.
>The squad level drones aren't nearly as capable as a commercial DJI.
Post something from DJI that compares to the FLIR Black Hornet/Soldier Borne Sensor that the US Army was receiving the first batches of back in 2018. Wind resistance is comparable to and the flight time is within 80% of that of the Mavic Mini, all while being a small fraction of the weight, size, and visibility, along with offering FLIR + color video and an encrypted frequency hopping datalink. The datasheet for comparison purposes:
https://flir.netx.net/file/asset/14121/original/attachment
The overmatch is there but comes with a bunch of BS added in. >rifle
heavy, frickhuge recoil, and almost half the basic combat load of an M4 >smart scopes
The smart optics only calculate for range but still require the grunt to be able to get the reticle on target. No windage adjustments or stabilizers built in. >video game HUD
IVAS might get its teething issues solved this decade, but I bet it is more towards 2030 than towards present day. Last I heard they still had issues with fogging during movements and problems with perception along the edges. >drones
The squad level drones aren't nearly as capable as a commercial DJI. >lasers
I hope the lasers live up to their potential because it would be awesome
TLDR the future is now, but with lots of caveats
>IVAS costs 55K per soldier >already more than doubled from projected 25K cost in a year >Pentagon still admits its a buggy mess with both software and hardware problems
kek, US can't build anymore
>I expect a source on that
Anything you wear over your fricking eyes gets fogged up or covered in rain/sweat/dirt etc the moment you start doing field shit with it outside instead of looking at how cool it is in an air conditioned building you fricking fat moron
Here in America when about 10-15% of Law Enforcement 'snap' and 'turncoat' and the Feds get the civil war they decided they wanted but were cucked out of in the 1990s.
>What 3rd world shit hole are we going to get to see this tested on
Weimerica and EUSSR after "cyber pandemic" courtesy of WEF/Davos Commie eurotrash bankers.
>We use this bullshit Chinese "rever IV" hawked by brodudes that cant handle lead core to showcase how badass our new round is.
Its an indictment of that piece of shit plate more than the cartridge.
I am pretty confident my plates can handle the real deal AP loading, be it WC or DU without undue stress. Sucks for the morons who got special threat plates that wont stop M193 or M80 ball because they will get manhandles by 6.8 for sure. Double sucks for the dudes buying fake IVs, and the Chinese issued them lol.
>I am pretty confident my plates can handle the real deal AP loading, be it WC or DU without undue stress.
Unless you've got xsapis or the new colossus, I wouldn't be so sure, especially not DU.
>military designs a bullet to defeat Chinese armor out to ~400m >Chinese shills freak out constantly >here look this video of them shooting a cup and core bullet proves thier AP round can't beat armor
Stay mad chingchong
Why does he call the brass case round 277 fury and the hybrid case 6.8x51? Is that how the nomenclature works? I thought 6.8x51 was simply the military’s internal metric designation.
They’re the same chambering, and there is only one chamber spec. I get that there’s brass case and hybrid case, with different pressures. But is this like the official nomenclature issued by Sig Sauer?
Been saying this the whole fricking time despite the mountains of morons on here saying it can NEVER pen level 4 plates, and thats just with a standard lead core projectile. People with above room temp IQs may also note that the 6.8 was picked(and this whole rifle program started) because after developing M855A1/M80A1 the US military created a design for a new projectile that performed so well that they were willing to introduce a new rifle/caliber just to get that performance. They officially stated this. Said new round has had effectively zero information made public about it. Id bet dollars to donuts that its a hybrid general purpose/AP round using a domestically(or maybe from an ally) sourceable material that penetrates level 4 out to mild distances. China is the only meaningful adversary in the world, china controls tungsten production to a large degree, the US figured out a projectile design that uses something else to offer adequate or superior AP performance but needed a bit more SD/IV to get where they wanted it, so they found a way to make a 6.8 meme caliber work for a standard issue rifle and GPMG.
some canons talked about it having greater range but this only applies in some environments were line of sight is long enough, so in urban it's not that useful, same in forests and jungles, but is useful in desert, plain, mountains, so yes in general it's good.
having less ammo is not a disadvantage at loner range with accurate fires since you still achieve suppression, but at closer range it's a problem and its be better to have more rounds to fire and maneuver like with 556.
for armor pen I think it could achieve that since this one was almost penned by fmj, but it wasn't that far away, so with a steel core projectile it may, I dont think tungsten core would be mass issued bc there's too little tungsten.
I guess they should have used a ‘guard dog’ for the penetrator instead of the “”armor””, since we all know that dogs are extremely good at penetrating you.
Why would their wife be at the community pool where you live? Or do you just see yourself magically teleporting outside with your loadout of choice and the words "kill Sally the officer's wife" appearing in the corner of your vision?
how do you suggest one copes with the fact that his nations military never deploys and is a welfare scheme so even of you join you'll never do nothing?
>most linked post are either muh civil war shit or replying to someone posting about it >my post is about the next 3rd world shithole the US is going to invade
wut?
I feel like at this point a small vocal minority just lose their absolute shit over anything involving sig and then say the dumbest shit. Every once in a while they will say something that is true but they mostly say stupid shit.
IV is made to stop full on .30 call AP, specifically to stop any infantry rifle. Adopting an ultra "AP" infantry rifle that's heavier than it should be with big heavy ammo was moronic and doomed to fail from day one.
Environment, not training or equipment is the primary factor in engagement distances, and you don't use a souped-up magnum to pen plates at 500m you pop a grenade over their head and shower them with frag.
To be fair, the rubes who this type of video is aimed at dont know plates can differ HUGELY in capability/weight/materials used, and they sure as frick dont know why "guard dog armor" aka "guangdongzhenghi Technical Armor company, North America branch" is bad. They see plate, plate get scary bump on backside, say to self "man that would kill you or at least give you and adrenaline dump and knock you on your ass".
Mark my words, youll never see a vid like this with proper controls and measurements for BFD, properly strapped down plate, chronograph etc. If it were, the SCARY BUMP OMG TORSO DESTROYED would be contextualized in NIJ BFD parameters and be a nothingburger. You DEFINITELY wont see 6.8x51cope ~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*warshot totally secrett round AP goyim youll never see it just trust us*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~ get tested against anything XSAPI or better (Hexar 4+, LTC28601, Adept Colossus). Just FMJ that gets safely stopped by fricking all-poly plates in clickbait videos against chinkplates.
He actually uses both. The real 6.8 pens on a 2nd hit in the exact same spot. However I’ve never heard of these plates before and they might not even be NIJ certified. Even cheap RMA level IVs can take more hits from a .300WM moving faster.
I never said it couldn't. I said all the women and trannies in the military won't be able to carry and use a heavy, high recoil gun.
>I said all the women and trannies in the military won't be able to carry and use a heavy, high recoil gun.
Does that look high recoil to you?
>Man that spends all of his time shooting guns
>Women and trannies
You ever see a man lifting something heavy and say to yourself "I bet a 100 pound woman could do that."?
*Spoilert alert you homosexual
>XM5 isn't heavy
I guarantee the same guys would be way more nimble and fluid with an AR. They're obviously experienced but despite that the rifle still looks cumbersome for them.
>13.5lb rifles aren’t heavy
Ok. Post body
Relative to the 8lbs 5.56 rifles that women and pencil wrists have trouble qualifying with? Yes.
>implying in an actual war we'd be sending those guys to the front line
nonwhites and women can work in logistics
Considering they only had 20 rounds of high pressure ammo so almost all of the rounds they’re shooting on camera are watered down brass case, and the handful of hybrid rounds we see them fire are from the prone or a tripod? Well there sure doesn’t seem to be any indication that it isn’t.
So you're saying you cant do it.
>B-B-But muh females can't shoot it
>/k/ pretending to give a frick about women
Loving every laugh
Holy shit, you just hit on the real reason for 6.8x51. It's not about terminal effectiveness or ballistics or anything, it's about filtering the women and trannies out of the infantry in a way that neverserveds and noguns can't even comprehend.
>brags about being a zogbot
The maybe 5% of soldiers in the last 20 years can brag about killing dunecoons. The other 95% lived a sad existence
But I can penetrate your mother
>frick ya mudda
no one credible ever said it was about penning level 4 plates
The Army citied it as a requirement, and with regular SMK projectiles can get a 2 round penetration. With a projectile that is hardened or has a penetrator the round will zip through a lvl 4 plate. Even the regular .277 loading with the full brass case almost penetrates in one round in the video.
source please
no, that would be www.reddit.com/k/
>source please
Look at anything the Army said about it, even mentioned several times in the announcement of the selection of SIG as the winner.
so no source
>so no source
No one is going to spoon-feed you, Black person. Learn how to use Google.
So no source
>confirmed 80IQ Black person.
I'm not one to scoff at the burden of proof but
>https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/Equipment/Equipment-Portfolio/Project-Manager-Soldier-Lethality-Portfolio/Next-Generation-Squad-Weapons-Program/
Is literally the third google result for "ngsw program"
penetration of level 4 armor is mentioned nowhere in that article
>With a projectile that is hardened or has a penetrator the round will zip through a lvl 4 plate.
no not really, weve already shown that some civ-available plates, as well as esapis, can stop m80a1-esc threats at high velocities (300 win chad) Without tungsten you aren't getting through anything but bottom of the bucket ceramics, esapis and the like are significantly more durable.
>almost had first round penetrations
those are normal amounts of bfd, a quality plate would stop five more with moderate spacing.
literally within nij spec for bfd with the shittiest lv4s out there
>mystery meat chinkshit gets penetrated by FMJ! XM5 sisters we did it!!!
That is a 5.7 lb 10x12 alumina plate. Do you know how much other 10x12 Level IV alumina plates weigh?
I’ll tell you: About 7.5 lb (look at the Hesco 4401 or Highcom 4s17m). Now, even if it had a foam ring, what reason do we have to believe that this no-name company selling cheap armor with no cited lab results would be ahead of everyone else’s AlO weight-protection curve? Hell, it’s not even particularly easy (and much more expensive) to make a 5.7 lb Level 4 plate with *silicon carbide*. And that’s before we account for the need to add drop protection to the strikeface, as is required for NIJ .06 compliance.
Then consider that the other videos of “Guard Dog Level IV” plates practically all:
1. Display sub-NIJ threats (surplus M2 AP is about 150 FPS below NIJ spec out of a Garand)
2. Are shot at plates in carriers (sometimes even at an angle, wut???) that are not secured tightly against a backer of generally appropriate weight or hardness, making bullets easier to stop.
3. MOST IMPORTANTLY: Are conducted against *6.5 lb* plates rather than the 5.7 lb plate seen in the NGSW video. RMA 1192 special, anyone?
There is simply no reason to believe this armor is representative of something like the LTC26300 which is of similar weight and made of much better materials, and that’s before we even start talking about absurdly tough plates like the Adept Armor Colossus. There’s fair reason to be skeptical that this Guard Dog Level IV plate even truly meets Level IV standards at all.
This is either b8 or you are the dumbest fricking gorilla moron shitbrained nigtard contrarian to ever walk the earth
Except the Grendel would in fact fix it.
Frick Grendel
It's for killing American rebels wearing commercially available armor. Peers like Russians don't even fricking wear armor.
Correct
>Peers like Russians don't even fricking wear armor.
To be fair no one knew that before the Russo-Ukrainian War. China also claims to be mass fielding lvl 4 for its troops. Guess we'll see.
>To be fair no one knew that before the Russo-Ukrainian War
This. Reminder that we saw shit like pic related from Russia during the invasion of Crimea.
>Reminder that we saw shit like pic related from Russia during the invasion of Crimea.
This is a combat engineer, a very specific role in limited numbers, not really russia pretending they can mass issue body armor.
China still doesn't even give every soldier in their propaganda vids plates. 95% of their plates being made are sold to Americans.
Wrong
the fat neverserved larpers from /arg/ or /gq/ don't actually go "innawoods" like they claim.
They drive their parents' beat to shit car to the local park or patch of trees and take all of their gear and carefully place it at the foot of the nearest tree and take a handful of photos with their fully charged smartphones.
The anons you see who are wearing gear get changed at home, drive out to the quietest spot in their local national park and carefully set up all of their Army man LARP costume gear so it looks like they're ready to "use it" or "train how they fight" or "run their gear"
They probably have a sad little foldable camera stand with a bluetooth remote or they balance their phone against something and set the camera timer to 10 seconds and quickly run back so that they can pose for their photo and pretend that it's a candid shot of them "operating"
On the way back they stop and buy fast food and get self conscious at going through the drive-through window and being seen wearing gear as they order 48 chicken nuggets and a thickshake on a Monday afternoon when most people are at work.
Poing this out and they will tell you to "die for israel"
None of the OEF/OIF vets who used to post here did 15 months on deployment fighting up Takur Ghar, Fallujah, Ramadi etc. then went stateside and bought their own IBA and ALICE webbing and took photos of themselves in their local national park wearing 200lbs of gear whilst shitting themselves with dysentery not showering for a month and wearing the same cammies with the crotch blown out and holes burned in it.
The entire "boogaloo" or "boog" shit is just a gigantic neverserved cope to jerk off the fantasy of shooting someone in real life and the only way they can imagine doing that is in some dumb 'last stand' against the cops who for some reason want to do a no-knock raid because the /k/ poster said Black person on the internet so therefore he is the righteous underdog and will die 'based' and 'redpilled'
Good lord I found someone who isn't a fricktard
Based king with the facts
how do you suggest one copes with the fact that his nations military never deploys and is a welfare scheme so even of you join you'll never do nothing?
You can volunteer in your community and actually help people. Become a paramedic or a firefighter or something. The reality of being infantry is lame anyways. If you want to do outdoor stuff, drop the LARPing with a rifle and other gear you don't need aspect and there's cool adventurous stuff you can do.
It’s sad that a lot of people, real non-Canadian, non-European people think this. If you made an effort to make some friends you could go out and train and just as heavily as any Youtuber, and if you get into your local competition scene and diligently practice you can quickly become a better shooter than any infantryman. There are people in all of the general threads you mentioned who do this regularly, and you could too if you had any motivation (having served as a regular infantryman is a sign of extremely low motivation). I hope you get in shape and do the things you want to do, and I hope that the people who pretend to live a lifestyle they can’t manage also develop the discipline required to do so.
>put in all this money, time, and effort
>manage to assemble a squad size element, or maybe even 2 squads between you and all your buddies
>still get your shit pushed in in any real world combat, because your squads lack the firepower to even effectively fire and maneuver due to lack of machine guns, not to mention the heavy weapons, intelligence capabilities, and logistics capabilities that infantry organized beyond autonomous squad size elements has at their disposal
I’m not sure if I can switch the gestalt switch for you but think more about the likely distribution of resources and armament were any of this to become relevant. Also consider the limitations which might be imposed upon use of air support if your targets were interspersed with your vital infrastructure.
>I’m not sure if I can switch the gestalt switch for you but think more about the likely distribution of resources and armament were any of this to become relevant
You mean on the side that's trying to maintain the status quo. Rather than the side that's so high on their power fantasies that they think they can order society at large around by throwing violent temper tantrums like a child, despite lacking capabilities that squads had back in WWII or even organization beyond the squad level?
You’re really far afield at this point. I can understand how it would be difficult for a discharged soldier to form a sense of autonomy and the drive required to develop yourself and your friends to a high standard without being yelled at by a butch in a flat brimmed cap. But there are people who train BJJ, for instance, every day, without being bothered by the possibility of their opponents having machine guns. There is a place and time for different levels of force and I know I wouldn’t sleep well if I didn’t do my best to prepare to protect what I care about. If any of this becomes relevant it won’t be a squad vs the entire intact, united US military; the status quo will no longer be in place to maintain. God bless you buddy.
>lack of machine guns
Can't you literally just pull the trigger multiple times? Would that make your little fingies too tired?
>Can't you literally just pull the trigger multiple times? Would that make your little fingies too tired?
you can't use logic on trannies.
>pulling the trigger on a semi auto rifle quickly is just as good as having a belt fed machine gun
cope
just pull the trigger faster you pathetic homosexual.
?t=106
correct
so hey, uh... moron?
the entire purpose of the program was to uh deal with this problem:
>"The driving problem which the NGSW program was intended to solve was that the M4 with its 5.56 NATO round could not reliably pierce newer versions of Russian- or Chinese-made body armor worn by potential adversaries, particularly at longer ranges."
It very much was about penetrating those plates.
That said they never explicitly made it a requirement, and kept things open ended for some moronic reason.
Hence why it was doomed from the start.
is the guy using the duty ammo or the training ammo?
Technically just the "training" ammo (hybrid case, regular SMK projectile) and the off the shelf brass cased .277 Fury.
>NIJ Level 4 is rated to stop a 166gr TUNGSTEN CORE 7.62mm bullet @2880 FPS (+/- 30FPS margin of error)
>Sig .277 Fury is a 135gr STEEL CORE 6.8mm bullet at 3000 FPS out of a 16" barrel (the military will be using a 13")
If you kept up with the development of the NGSW program you'll know this was doomed from the start.
>If you kept up with the development of the NGSW program you'll know this was doomed from the start.
Then explain how 2 FMJ bullets in the video almost had first round penetrations, lol. All you gotta do it watch the video anon linked.
>Then explain how 2 FMJ bullets in the video almost had first round penetrations, lol.
They didn’t. That’s normal when hit by and full sized rifle caliber.
>That’s normal when hit by and full sized rifle caliber.
Then why doesn't it happen with .308?
> https://m.youtube.com/@BuffRANGE
Plenty of videos here. Yes 6.8 will cause more BFD than .308 because it is slightly more powerful than .308 from a full length barrel. But it’s not more powerful than .300 WM, .300 RUM, and so on. If there’s less BFD on other plates it’s because they are better
M2AP is steel core. Also, see:
, they're looking at 2900 FPS from the 13" barrel, the 135 grain projectile has comparable sectional density to the 166 grain M2AP, and they're getting almost complete penetration with plain lead core ammo. The ridiculous armor piercing goals you see people post about are bullshit, but this will have no problem punching plates at CQB distances when loaded with anything that offers better penetration than basic lead core ammo.
>but this will have no problem punching plates at CQB distances when loaded with anything that offers better penetration than basic lead core ammo.
Even at non-CQB distances it'll have a hell of a thump. Would love to see some more testing at different ranges.
The M2AP not being tungsten cored is my bad, but I'd dispute the penetration and the utility even if it did penetrate.
It's a test on mystery meat armor from a Chinese reseller, and even that stopped two rounds in the same area.
And even if it did penetrate it, it's almost certainly at only CQB distances which isn't that useful, especially when you remember that it affects basically every other aspect of the gun.
>better long range preformance seeing everyone has a magnified optic these days
How is this a bad thing?
>but muh armor
AP would easily pen and who do you think we'll be fighting with armor? Russia (kek) or China with chinese quality control.
>135 grain at 2900 FPS from a 13" barrel with the hybrid case
>previous reports were 3000 FPS from a 16" barrel with the hybrid case
>Sig now lists a hybrid case load on their website that throws a 150 grain bullet at 2830 FPS from a 16" barrel
Okay, now I'm kind of impressed.
I was actually impressed when I realized he was shooting regular ass FMJ
Even if it failed to penetrate on first round, that's a lot of kinetic energy being transferred. Guaranteed to knock someone off-balanced and induce an adrenaline rush.
>that's a lot of kinetic energy being transferred
Not really
>Guaranteed to knock someone off-balanced
Not really
This is relatively shitty 80s armor also.
>and induce an adrenaline rush.
Well no shit. Being shot at does that too. What is your point?
>H-heh, I guess I didn't kill my enemy b-but at least I induced an adrenaline rush.
Do no-gunz really?
300 win mag can use leihigh xtreme pentrators that will penetrate level iv armor and is about 4k fps from a 16" barrel
>just give everyone even hotter loads with even more recoil
>ignores the MG
>300 win mag can use leihigh xtreme pentrators
Lehigh doesn’t make them in .30 cal
>that will penetrate level iv armor
Doubtful when steel core doesn’t. Steel is much harder than copper
>and is about 4k fps from a 16" barrel
Lol no. Post load data
So before 2030, the US is going to have:
>a standard issue rifle that will defeat the current go to body armor at CQB distances
>smart scopes that will allow the average infantryman to engage at distances that were previously at the outer reaches of what a designated marksman could reach
>a crazy video game like situational awareness ecosystem for infantry, between the IVAS HUDs for the average infantryman, the smart scopes that allow for spotting of targets, squad level drones, and more
>daytime Predator heat vision for infantry with the IVAS
>lasers mounted on JLTVs that can take down small drones, and lasers mounted on Strykers that can take down larger drones, artillery, mortars, and helicopters
>more stuff I'm forgetting
>zero illusion that any non US allied country is even a remotely near peer force
What 3rd world shit hole are we going to get to see this tested on, and how hard are they going to get roflstomped?
>What 3rd world shit hole are we going to get to see this tested on, and how hard are they going to get roflstomped?
we're seeing it now with Russia, and that's shit that was made 30 years ago.
I think you forgot about the hundreds, soon to be thousands, of stealth multirole aircraft.
>So before 2030, the US is going to have
>implying
How old are you?
The overmatch is there but comes with a bunch of BS added in.
>rifle
heavy, frickhuge recoil, and almost half the basic combat load of an M4
>smart scopes
The smart optics only calculate for range but still require the grunt to be able to get the reticle on target. No windage adjustments or stabilizers built in.
>video game HUD
IVAS might get its teething issues solved this decade, but I bet it is more towards 2030 than towards present day. Last I heard they still had issues with fogging during movements and problems with perception along the edges.
>drones
The squad level drones aren't nearly as capable as a commercial DJI.
>lasers
I hope the lasers live up to their potential because it would be awesome
TLDR the future is now, but with lots of caveats
>Last I heard they still had issues with fogging during movements
I expect a source on that.
>problems with perception along the edges.
The problem was that fused imagery in the last 5 degrees on each side wasn't within 1 miliradian (or about 3.6" at 100 yards) of its true position, and that was already solved early last year. Only issue I'm aware of currently is it sounds like they might be having problems with it chafing soldiers' faces and want to redesign the form factor, but the first unit was equipped with test units last year.
>The squad level drones aren't nearly as capable as a commercial DJI.
Post something from DJI that compares to the FLIR Black Hornet/Soldier Borne Sensor that the US Army was receiving the first batches of back in 2018. Wind resistance is comparable to and the flight time is within 80% of that of the Mavic Mini, all while being a small fraction of the weight, size, and visibility, along with offering FLIR + color video and an encrypted frequency hopping datalink. The datasheet for comparison purposes:
https://flir.netx.net/file/asset/14121/original/attachment
And if how tiny that drone is isn't impressive enough. They can also do this with it.
>IVAS costs 55K per soldier
>already more than doubled from projected 25K cost in a year
>Pentagon still admits its a buggy mess with both software and hardware problems
kek, US can't build anymore
>I expect a source on that
Anything you wear over your fricking eyes gets fogged up or covered in rain/sweat/dirt etc the moment you start doing field shit with it outside instead of looking at how cool it is in an air conditioned building you fricking fat moron
>t. someone who has only ever used cheap shit
Bruh is that a m16a4 in tan?
Frick tan but damn that is sexy.
Here in America when about 10-15% of Law Enforcement 'snap' and 'turncoat' and the Feds get the civil war they decided they wanted but were cucked out of in the 1990s.
and all of it having to be being maintained by 80IQ mutts, it won't scale well in real world conditions
its to use against us silly. they're going to kill us because they hate us.
>What 3rd world shit hole are we going to get to see this tested on
Weimerica and EUSSR after "cyber pandemic" courtesy of WEF/Davos Commie eurotrash bankers.
>What 3rd world shit hole are we going to get to see this tested on
America
>and how hard are they going to get roflstomped?
Yes
Plus a more unified nato on a shopping spree for advanced weaponry. Lot of those projects are joint between the UK and US.
>3rd world shit
Doesn't even have body armor in significant numbers. Those memes are made for you.
>We use this bullshit Chinese "rever IV" hawked by brodudes that cant handle lead core to showcase how badass our new round is.
Its an indictment of that piece of shit plate more than the cartridge.
I am pretty confident my plates can handle the real deal AP loading, be it WC or DU without undue stress. Sucks for the morons who got special threat plates that wont stop M193 or M80 ball because they will get manhandles by 6.8 for sure. Double sucks for the dudes buying fake IVs, and the Chinese issued them lol.
>I am pretty confident my plates can handle the real deal AP loading, be it WC or DU without undue stress.
Unless you've got xsapis or the new colossus, I wouldn't be so sure, especially not DU.
>FMJ can't pen lvl IV plates
I am shocked I tell you!
>military designs a bullet to defeat Chinese armor out to ~400m
>Chinese shills freak out constantly
>here look this video of them shooting a cup and core bullet proves thier AP round can't beat armor
Stay mad chingchong
Why does he call the brass case round 277 fury and the hybrid case 6.8x51? Is that how the nomenclature works? I thought 6.8x51 was simply the military’s internal metric designation.
They're different rounds, the 6.8 is military exclusive and hotter than 277
They’re the same chambering, and there is only one chamber spec. I get that there’s brass case and hybrid case, with different pressures. But is this like the official nomenclature issued by Sig Sauer?
Been saying this the whole fricking time despite the mountains of morons on here saying it can NEVER pen level 4 plates, and thats just with a standard lead core projectile. People with above room temp IQs may also note that the 6.8 was picked(and this whole rifle program started) because after developing M855A1/M80A1 the US military created a design for a new projectile that performed so well that they were willing to introduce a new rifle/caliber just to get that performance. They officially stated this. Said new round has had effectively zero information made public about it. Id bet dollars to donuts that its a hybrid general purpose/AP round using a domestically(or maybe from an ally) sourceable material that penetrates level 4 out to mild distances. China is the only meaningful adversary in the world, china controls tungsten production to a large degree, the US figured out a projectile design that uses something else to offer adequate or superior AP performance but needed a bit more SD/IV to get where they wanted it, so they found a way to make a 6.8 meme caliber work for a standard issue rifle and GPMG.
Why is DoD working on .264 caliber weapons? Army procurement and DOD seem to be misaligned.
If you're talking about the 6.8 ADVAP, it's literally just tungsten core m80a1
no he's talking about the GP round for the 6.8. Its similar to M855A1, or M80A1. You can see it in the link below.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/10/27/inside-armys-quest-revolutionary-new-bullet.html
It's not too late to adopt the real winner.
I think it looks like shit but it’s the better gun
some canons talked about it having greater range but this only applies in some environments were line of sight is long enough, so in urban it's not that useful, same in forests and jungles, but is useful in desert, plain, mountains, so yes in general it's good.
having less ammo is not a disadvantage at loner range with accurate fires since you still achieve suppression, but at closer range it's a problem and its be better to have more rounds to fire and maneuver like with 556.
for armor pen I think it could achieve that since this one was almost penned by fmj, but it wasn't that far away, so with a steel core projectile it may, I dont think tungsten core would be mass issued bc there's too little tungsten.
>non AP ammo
>doesn't piece armor
uhhh, are you fricking moronic?
no fricking shit
I guess they should have used a ‘guard dog’ for the penetrator instead of the “”armor””, since we all know that dogs are extremely good at penetrating you.
Trying too hard bro
Also, there aren't upvotes here so idk why you even bother
We just enjoy making you mald, it’s funny.
No upcummies here bro, move on
I like how you imply that shitting on you would be consistently upvoted by everyone, at least you have a shred of self awareness.
>still thinks he's gonna get an upvote
bro lmao, this is just sad, this isn't reddit
You know, for all that you accuse others, you really seem pretty fixated on these upvotes.
should of used 7.62x54
>should of
kys
What kind of ammo did this, I would of kept my psl.
Why would their wife be at the community pool where you live? Or do you just see yourself magically teleporting outside with your loadout of choice and the words "kill Sally the officer's wife" appearing in the corner of your vision?
>I'm already planning my boog mass shooting
yeah
lol I'm not these other anons
>most linked post are either muh civil war shit or replying to someone posting about it
>my post is about the next 3rd world shithole the US is going to invade
wut?
It literally didn't pen in that video, so I don't get what you're so smug about.
Nobody outside the US is adopting 6.86x51 as their primary because 7.62x51 already exists.
Enough to stop a heart tho, if it hits the sternum.
No it’s not. Where did the nu-fuddlore come from?
I feel like at this point a small vocal minority just lose their absolute shit over anything involving sig and then say the dumbest shit. Every once in a while they will say something that is true but they mostly say stupid shit.
>two charging handles
IV is made to stop full on .30 call AP, specifically to stop any infantry rifle. Adopting an ultra "AP" infantry rifle that's heavier than it should be with big heavy ammo was moronic and doomed to fail from day one.
Environment, not training or equipment is the primary factor in engagement distances, and you don't use a souped-up magnum to pen plates at 500m you pop a grenade over their head and shower them with frag.
>and you don't use a souped-up magnum to pen plates at 500m
That's not the purpose behind the NGSW though.
>shooting level IV plates with led core ammo
What a joke.
>Guard dog plates
>Not NIJ certified iirc, but too lazy to check
Not a test against an actual ceramic plate
To be fair, the rubes who this type of video is aimed at dont know plates can differ HUGELY in capability/weight/materials used, and they sure as frick dont know why "guard dog armor" aka "guangdongzhenghi Technical Armor company, North America branch" is bad. They see plate, plate get scary bump on backside, say to self "man that would kill you or at least give you and adrenaline dump and knock you on your ass".
Mark my words, youll never see a vid like this with proper controls and measurements for BFD, properly strapped down plate, chronograph etc. If it were, the SCARY BUMP OMG TORSO DESTROYED would be contextualized in NIJ BFD parameters and be a nothingburger. You DEFINITELY wont see 6.8x51cope ~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*warshot totally secrett round AP goyim youll never see it just trust us*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~ get tested against anything XSAPI or better (Hexar 4+, LTC28601, Adept Colossus). Just FMJ that gets safely stopped by fricking all-poly plates in clickbait videos against chinkplates.
It's basically a 7.62 NATO but thinner and faster.
Not going to watch the video.Does he use the actual ammo or is this another moron using the civilan round ?
He actually uses both. The real 6.8 pens on a 2nd hit in the exact same spot. However I’ve never heard of these plates before and they might not even be NIJ certified. Even cheap RMA level IVs can take more hits from a .300WM moving faster.
>they might not even be NIJ certified
They're not.