5.7 is the new carry round

30SC didn’t have a chance, 9mm is on its last breath, and since everyone is a giant pussy with weak wrists 10mm won’t catch on

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Not at $2.99 per cartridge. Try again when we're talkin under 12¢ per round.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      damn, is that what it costs now?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Are you stupid?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Under 12 cents per round
      Nice bait

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      if you are paying 3 dollars per round someone is making 2 dollars a round after buying the good fn shit from an already jacked up retailer.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ammoseek says .60 a round. Not great by any stretch but I shoot calibers worse than that.
      Whoall makes 5.7 these days? Is it just federal and FN? i think if a half dozen other manufacturers got behind it they could drop the price to 5.56 competitive.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Federal, FN, Fiocchi
        Speer Gold Dots are made by Fiocchi as well
        PSA is trying to get into it but I haven't heard anything in a while about that (the store clerks are excited but when I asked them where it was they shrugged)

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Ammoseek says .60 a round. Not great by any stretch but I shoot calibers worse than that.
          Whoall makes 5.7 these days? Is it just federal and FN? i think if a half dozen other manufacturers got behind it they could drop the price to 5.56 competitive.

          Palmetto already is producing 5.7 do any of you morons watch buffman range? He has a few boxes of their shit already.
          >store clerks are excited
          No wonder you dont know shit if thats where youre seeking info

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Federal, FN, Fiocchi
        Speer Gold Dots are made by Fiocchi as well
        PSA is trying to get into it but I haven't heard anything in a while about that (the store clerks are excited but when I asked them where it was they shrugged)

        There's also some niche manufacturers. Elite Ammunition and Vanguard make legit armor piercing shit that outdoes FN's own blacktip (le,nl because ATF's definition of AP is based on materials, not ability to pierce armor), EA is impossible to find but Vanguard is easy but you do need to watch the page usually around a week or two if you want to catch it in stock.
        There's also R&R Weapons, they make a lot of weird and readily available special 5.7, but it's almost entirely fragmenting hollow point type shit that entirely misses the point of 5.7.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        My issue is that reloading it is actually pretty hard to do. You go from safe to dangerous load within 0.1gr of powder. If it was safer to load, it would be extremely cheap to do so with 5.56 bullets.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's THAT sensitive? What about that cartridge makes it that easy to mess up?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Very high operating pressure and very little case capacity at 45k PSI and 13.9gr H2O

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It is a very small span of loads you can use but imo "dangerous" with .1gr is a little stretch unless you're a really talented lawyer

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Got curious, surprised to see that .1 grain is within 1/10th of reality..

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That isn't even really the problem, the main issue with reloading this cartridge is that it's designed with very straight walls in order to work in the p90 magazine, and so it requires a lubricating coating in order to extract reliably, which you can't apply yourself. So while it's not that difficult to produce safe hand loads, they aren't going to be reliable.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        still almost double the price of 22 TCM which has similar performance and the guns that fire it are cheaper to get. Plus its easier to reload

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          wrong

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            He said .22 TCM.

            And TCM is a great 5.7 competitor on paper, but it's hamstrung by having even worse selection than 5.7, with exactly two loadings on the market -- there's a normal SJHP, there's a stubby SJHP to fit in 9mm mags, and that's it.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              *stubby JHP to fit in 9mm mags

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Also the guns that shoot it are mostly fucking 1911 clones.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      can't afford to properly protect your own life? sad

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not him but low IQ take. More than ANYTHING, the most important thing when it comes to handgun shooting is basically trying to turn yourself into a high level pistolero. So unless you're rich and/or willing to spend massive amounts of income on practicing hundreds and thousands of rounds in a round that costs 1$ a pop and it's hard and just as expensive to reload for... you're not practicing as much as you should be.

        I can afford 100,000 rounds of 9mm. I cannot afford 100,000 rounds of 5.7

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You fucking imbecile monkey, decent 22lr like cci is barely at like 12cpr. 9mm has never been at 12cpr since i got into shooting in 2011. Fuck you you ignorant unrealistic childish piece of shit. If this is bait damn was it good one

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Are you interested in a 40 grain bullet at 1500fps
    No

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >"B-but bro, its larger than the bullet the US military uses bro!"

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    meaning it's designed for people who never shoot their guns at anything but paper?

    yeah I guess that makes sense.

    .45ACP and +P 9mm Luger will still be the best self defense rounds, though.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What about .45 +p? That Critical Duty shit seems pretty tough. Nice solid kick to it. I can't imagine taking a hit center mass and continuing to move.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I like the look of 5in combat models so I'll stick with the 9 and 10.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    In what fucking dimension are you from that 9mm is on its last breath?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the dimension in which he wants to get a lot of replies to a thread without much content, you retard

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Very unique design actually.
    Gas piston, rotating barrel, system.
    I think thats completely unique.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Desert eagle is gas operated with a rotating barrel. Still sounds really cool though.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The Desert Eagle was rotating bolt.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        lel nice try, now go back to call of duty kid

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Deagle is rotating bolt, with gas operation. The only current production rotating barrel firearms I can think of are the Grand Power and Px4.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Beretta PX4 storm?

          and the beretta 8000

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      FUUUUCK why can't it be DA/SA?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      wow that's a lotta shit that can and will break

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Literally in what way?
        Its an annular gas piston that causes the barrel to recoil in a cam track to rotate.
        There is literally nothing complex there mechanically.
        Can you explain your view?

        https://i.imgur.com/0qThudP.jpg

        FUUUUCK why can't it be DA/SA?

        The world hates nice things.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Can you explain your view?
          He's a retard who can only understand the world in layman's terms.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >There is literally nothing complex there mechanically.
          this. idiots will just scream "complicated!" when they see something they aren't familiar with.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's essentially an AR BCG in a pistol, but with fewer parts.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Idiot, the rotating barrel berettas and glocks have literally 0 issuesx smith and wesson didnt have to innovate shit just copy everyones homework that is already tried and proven.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Beretta PX4 storm?

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The only people who use 5.7 are hoodrats and people who watch nutinfancy, which is to say, people who don't actually shoot

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In what universe are hoodrats using 5.7

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        "I keep a 5.7 at lennox"
        Pooh is always talm 5.7s too

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I've seen at least one fentanyl dealer who was packing a Ruger 57 get prosecuted in my area. Dumb bro didn't even have a holster, he stuffed it in the front pocket of his hoodie and almost got shot because he was holding it to keep it from falling out while he ran from the cops.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Chicago

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Paul Harrell has a fiveseven and mentioned he will use it if he needed higher capacity and faster velocity then other calibers are capable of in a handgun.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I wasn't aware Hi-Point released a 5.7.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Youre an idiot, and hilariously nutnfancy shoots more than you ever will and likely so does his army of poors.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Covid killed the 5.7 revival
    >It's back for the sequel
    Horror movie bros, looks like we have a trilogy in the making!

    Good on S&W.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Prices on ammo are only coming down poorfags!

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >shoot a mugger
      >cost myself more than just giving him my wallet

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        it's the principle of the thing, and maybe his buddy won't try to rob you tomorrow

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Of course I feared for my life, your honor - why else would I shoot off an amount of ammunition with value greater than was even in my wallet or any of my bank cards? It literally would have been cheaper to not shoot him if that were an option.
        Sounds like an air-tight case, actually.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >He doesn't want to flex on the poors by using ammunition worth more than they are

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Based

          Ammoseek says .60 a round. Not great by any stretch but I shoot calibers worse than that.
          Whoall makes 5.7 these days? Is it just federal and FN? i think if a half dozen other manufacturers got behind it they could drop the price to 5.56 competitive.

          Federal, FN, Fiocchi
          Speer Gold Dots are made by Fiocchi as well
          PSA is trying to get into it but I haven't heard anything in a while about that (the store clerks are excited but when I asked them where it was they shrugged)

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        based
        it's the cost of making the world a better place.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >ukrainians blow up a commie shitbox with a javelin that costs several times more
        >still worth it
        it's not about what's economical, it's about what's right

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Even better when that shitbox is carrying ammunition

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Id pay the price of box of ammo to remove a feral nog

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You stupid turd, do you know how much a fucking round of 9mm hst, gold dot or ranger t costs? It is literally cheaper for me to unload all 20+1 rounds of 5.7 into a taqueria robber than unload the 15+1 of my 9mm carry ammo. Your joke is old unoriginal tired and stupidly false.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          5.7 is more expensive than 9mm you dumb fuck.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            5.7 standard rounds are cheaper than defensive 9mm
            Though I’m sure if there were “defensive” 5.7 rounds they’d be more than defensive 9mm

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >It is literally cheaper for me to unload all 20+1 rounds of 5.7 into a taqueria robber than unload the 15+1 of my 9mm carry ammo.
          If you’re using 40gr FMJ 5.7 as carry ammo, maybe. But that would be retarded

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why?

            If you accept that 5.7, like any other pistol round, isn't creating permanent wound channels like a rifle then penetration is all that matters. Poke holes, lots of them, in vital areas. I do it with my .380 for warm weather carry and I would definitely do it with civilian 5.7 loads.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Eh, I don't think there's probably much of a practical difference between a caliber that punch's .6" holes vs .7" ones(ex 9 vs .45). On the other hand a cartridge that's punching .2" holes or smaller(5.7 when it isn't at significant yaw) vs a .6" one or bigger is a way bigger gap. That isn't just arguing over marginal gains anymore, that's a hole that's 3 times bigger

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >If you accept that 5.7, like any other pistol round, isn't creating permanent wound channels like a rifle
              No shit, but irrelevant. Pistols aren’t rifles.
              >then penetration is all that matters.
              It’s the most important. Not all that matters.
              >Poke holes, lots of them, in vital areas.
              So you subscribe to the thought that everything from a pistol is only going to create straight line wound. Which fine, it’s debatable but no one can say certainly you are wrong. But even by your own metrics then 5.7 is stupid. If it doesn’t fragment, tumble, or create a large PWC with velocity, it’s a .224” bullet making a small wound. That’s pathetic. If you compare frontal surface area 9mm FMJ would have 251% more. A 9mm HP that expands to 1.5x it’s diameter, which is moderate expansion, would have 565% more frontal area than a 5.7 FMJ. Does holding 2-3 more rounds and slightly less recoil offset a wound track that’s 18% smaller? Or course not.

              If 5.7 doesn’t do anything differently with wounding mechanics then it’s shitty.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm not so much suggesting that every pistol shot will create a straight-line wound, bullets do weird shit in the human body, but I am suggesting that expansion is a secondary concern with pistol ammo because there's just not enough energy to create a dramatic difference in outcomes.

                I'm also agreeing that I don't think 5.7 is an ideal carry round, I'd prefer even my .380 over it, but I'm also of the mind that essentially any gun is enough gun for 99% of situations, and I'd sure recommend 5.7 over any rimfire cartridge or .25 acp. Maybe even .32

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >but I am suggesting that expansion is a secondary concern with pistol ammo because there's just not enough energy to create a dramatic difference in outcomes
                A mildly expanding 9mm like an Hornady XTP would create a wound track 5 times larger than a .224” FMJ, using your a parameters. That is very significant. Again, even .380 FMJ (being the same diameter as 9mm) is 2.5x larger. That’s also significant. But I don’t think anyone (besides maybe you) is saying .380 is more potent or more effective than 5.7.

                >but I'm also of the mind that essentially any gun is enough gun for 99% of situations,
                I agree. I don’t dispute that. I’d even say a .22LR is fine 99% of the time. But that’s a separate conversation.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        But you'll have fun in the process.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >get to shoot a black
        >keep my wallet
        You're missing the point.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >american eagle 5.7mm is 1600 FPS at the muzzle
      It is unironically pic related. Why anyone simps for this dumb round is beyond me.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Is that with a rifle or with a handgun? Also. No one in their right mind carries the 40gr fmj

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, half of these FPS results are using a 16" PS90 or a custom bench setup with a 16-20" barrel.

          Everyone with a Five-seveN, 5.7 Ruger, M&P 5.7, etc are getting nowhere near that velocity.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Vanguard Black Fang gets over 2k fps out of a Five-seveN.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Vanguard Black Fang
              >current price for box of 25 rounds when available is $47.75

              lol

              lmao even

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Cost doesn't matter for carry ammo. You can practice with the $0.60 a round stuff and carry the good shit.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You should at least do SOME training with your carry rounds, you need to know if they're going to perform similarly to your training rounds or not.

                If they perform drastically differently, then your training rounds are useless.

                Federal 5.7 at ~1650fps vs what you suggested at ~2200fps, they're not even close so to act like they'll perform similarly is just not smart.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                1. This is the shot I carry for
                2. You need like a mag worth to confirm they have the same point of impact. Which they do at pistol ranges. Testing it was an absolutely inconsequential cost.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Weight differences in projectile can make up the recoil difference
                Grain*velocity = powerfactor is a good lazy way of figuring recoil of two similar weight similar operating guns

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Federal 5.7 at ~1650fps vs what you suggested at ~2200fps, they're not even close so to act like they'll perform similarly is just not smart.
                A 25y zero is all you need and those rounds should be hitting roughly the same spot @ 25y zero. Hell you could probably go down to a 15y zero and be fine. Obviously you need to confirm that both rounds are hitting the same spot at that distance, but if they are then you are g2g in terms of training with the cheap ammo and carrying the good stuff for self defense. Feel free to say I am wrong but please explain why if you do, thank you.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >rimmed
        >rimfire
        No thanks

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Tell me about how you gave up all your .22LR guns for .25ACP guns.

          Is that with a rifle or with a handgun? Also. No one in their right mind carries the 40gr fmj

          Yeah, half of these FPS results are using a 16" PS90 or a custom bench setup with a 16-20" barrel.

          Everyone with a Five-seveN, 5.7 Ruger, M&P 5.7, etc are getting nowhere near that velocity.

          1600FPS out of a pistol. Yes, 5.7mm is fucking stupid.
          >nobody carries 40gr FMJ!
          You think it's going to be fucking different with a HP? What the fuck is even the point of carrying a .22 cal HP? You're a fucking retard.

          It's a pistol round, it will perform liek all the other pistol rounds from .380ACP to .44 Mag.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The 5.7 has enough velocity, with the right aftermarket loadings like Vanguard Black Fang, to perform like a rifle round out of a handgun.
            It can also penetrate soft body armor like the kind most cops wear.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >to perform like a rifle round out of a handgun.
              Oh, you're too funny. Yeah, it just barely brushes the lower limit where you just *begin* to see *some* tissues reach their elastic limits. It does that only at the muzzle and since it's still so fucking slow the amount of planar tearing you see will be minimal as fuck.

              >Legends claim the Obsidian Dragon could render any foe low with a single bite. Warriors of lore skilled and fortunate to defeat one, coveted its fangs to fashion weapons like no other.
              ELL EMM AYY OH
              They market this dumb stuff like the dragon dildos people.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There are independent tests of it that outright prove it has performance more like a rifle than a handgun. Yes, the marketing is cringe, but it gets fucking results. See "2016-17 Joint Agency Ballistics Test for Defensive Handgun Ammunition (pdf)"
                https://viperweapons.us/ballistics-testing-1

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Posts an advert for screw drivers bullets falsely claiming to be an official study performed for federal LEAs
                Seems like a reliable source to me

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Measuring the Permanent Wound Cavity (PWC) in gel proved to be very
                difficult. High speed, tumbling rounds create a compression which results in
                larger than actual wound channels in non-compressible IWBA gel similar to what
                some of the solid copper rounds did only worse
                They determined that gel results were fucking useless and didn't even bother to include them in the report.

                >In a few
                select tests rifle rounds >3,000 fps were tested to analyze the wounds in tissue.
                Dissection showed tearing, which increases overall wounding. Only minimal
                tearing was ever witnessed during 5.7mm testing and we believe the effects were
                nominal and did not contribute to any measurements or data
                5.7mm does not in fact perform like a rifle and any tearing observed was so minimal as to be a non-factor

                Did you even read your own stupid fucking source or did you just decide to dick suck this dumb NATO orphan round without any thought whatsoever? The *only* thing it's good at is balistic penetration. But so is every other fucking pistol cartridge. The only reason they call it a rifle round in the test isn't because "OMG PERFORMANCE BLACK FANG SCALY BULLLETS" but because it was originally made to be fired in the P90, which in the paper they call a rifle.

                If your round has to rely on some meme hand loads from a nobody gun shop, then the round is shit.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >perform like a rifle round out of a handgun.
              Where are the proofs? Surely with a life saving tool you aren't simply relying on some napkin math for your decision making, right anon?

              I have no dog in this argument but what's the lie?
              t. 10MM club

              The claim is demonstrably false. Many people were shit in the torso at ft hood and survived, it's literally readily googlable information. 5.7 fan boys just like to say that to try to give the cartridge legitimacy. If it's so highly effective then why has practically every institution that issued it found it to be shit and replaced it with other typical handgun rounds?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >why has practically every institution that issued it found it to be shit and replaced it with other typical handgun rounds?
                cost. 9mm is cheaper than 5.7 and always will be.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Lmao good thing you can't just look up what the actual experts say instead so we just have to engage in baseless conjecture on the internet ri- oh wait
                >I can put more rounds on target faster with the P90 than with my M4 in close contact engagements. Unfortunately you may HAVE to put more rounds in the threat due to the lack of damage the projectile causes.
                >three OIS's later and some unbelievably poor terminal balistic performace we dropped them...quickly.
                >https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4338-Small-Caliber-PDW-s-FN-5-7-mm-HK-4-6-mm&s=8250af3015cf98c2db597d5a17c7c268
                These same groups have 0 problem running stuff like .300 Blk instead of 5.56 despite the cost difference

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >comparison to an M4
                You carry a 5-7 instead of a handgun. Not instead of an M4. Nobody is saying it's better than an M4.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Multiple people who've actually used the thing say you have to use it as a fucking bullet hose to get decent effect on target
                >Specifically states that it's even worse out of a pistol
                >Surely it must somehow be better with massively lower ROF and velocity, thinks the shill
                Remember when that spec ops anon bothered to post his experiences with 4.6 vs 9mm along with proofs of him using both? I remember. He said the exact same shit. Hell, even Paul Harrell agress that it has shit ballistics worse than a .38 in his experiences.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                like a rifle round out of a handgun.
                >Where are the proofs? Surely with a life saving tool you aren't simply relying on some napkin math for your decision making, right anon
                Not him, I'll defend it on vmax but the there is little extra to a nondeforming projectile even at those speeds in my opinion. It is what it is, a 22lr but better at penetrating, hope the better handling makes up for the worse terminal effects.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Where are the proofs?
                Right here

                There are independent tests of it that outright prove it has performance more like a rifle than a handgun. Yes, the marketing is cringe, but it gets fucking results. See "2016-17 Joint Agency Ballistics Test for Defensive Handgun Ammunition (pdf)"
                https://viperweapons.us/ballistics-testing-1

                >ft.hood
                Check the casualties list for yourself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fort_Hood_shooting
                Three chest shots survived. Twelve died.

                >Posts an advert for screw drivers bullets falsely claiming to be an official study performed for federal LEAs
                Seems like a reliable source to me

                It is not a false claim. It is, in fact, an impartial test commissioned by law enforcement agencies. And it does also prove that screwdrivers are superior to hollow points.

                https://i.imgur.com/4fKsqTA.jpg

                >Measuring the Permanent Wound Cavity (PWC) in gel proved to be very
                difficult. High speed, tumbling rounds create a compression which results in
                larger than actual wound channels in non-compressible IWBA gel similar to what
                some of the solid copper rounds did only worse
                They determined that gel results were fucking useless and didn't even bother to include them in the report.

                >In a few
                select tests rifle rounds >3,000 fps were tested to analyze the wounds in tissue.
                Dissection showed tearing, which increases overall wounding. Only minimal
                tearing was ever witnessed during 5.7mm testing and we believe the effects were
                nominal and did not contribute to any measurements or data
                5.7mm does not in fact perform like a rifle and any tearing observed was so minimal as to be a non-factor

                Did you even read your own stupid fucking source or did you just decide to dick suck this dumb NATO orphan round without any thought whatsoever? The *only* thing it's good at is balistic penetration. But so is every other fucking pistol cartridge. The only reason they call it a rifle round in the test isn't because "OMG PERFORMANCE BLACK FANG SCALY BULLLETS" but because it was originally made to be fired in the P90, which in the paper they call a rifle.

                If your round has to rely on some meme hand loads from a nobody gun shop, then the round is shit.

                They tested in ACTUAL FUCKING MEAT. The thing people are actually made of.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Three chest shots survived
                Ok so we've gone from 0 to 3 and torso is now "chest" with some arbitrary definition you've come up with. Look at an anatomy model sometime retard. Your back is the back of the chest, your shoulders are part of your torso and cover very important vitals and the abdomen is definitely a part of the torso. Same conversation as always with you people, outright lies and goal post moving.
                >an impartial test commissioned by law enforcement agencies.
                There is zero proof of the legitimacy, let alone impartiality, of that test and it appears to have been written by somebody who struggled to pass 8th grade English.
                >They tested in ACTUAL FUCKING MEAT
                Is this just bait at this point? Surely you do realize that dead meat has been studied and found to not work as a valid test medium for measuring PWC, right? That's literally been public info since like the 90s when fackler bothered to debunk that whole thing. Surely such an expert on ballistics as yourself would be well aware of this

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Fackler was wrong and people eat up his shit because it gives an excuse to use a cheaper test medium.

                >Multiple people who've actually used the thing say you have to use it as a fucking bullet hose to get decent effect on target
                >Specifically states that it's even worse out of a pistol
                >Surely it must somehow be better with massively lower ROF and velocity, thinks the shill
                Remember when that spec ops anon bothered to post his experiences with 4.6 vs 9mm along with proofs of him using both? I remember. He said the exact same shit. Hell, even Paul Harrell agress that it has shit ballistics worse than a .38 in his experiences.

                4.6 is not 5.7.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >F-f-fackler was wrong!!11!
                Says the shit eating retard who has never operated a ballistics testing lab

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Your peer reviewed papers by industry experts are wrong!
                >Look at what these heckin based and valid advertising materials say instead!
                Lmao

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Is this just bait at this point? Surely you do realize that dead meat has been studied and found to not work as a valid test medium for measuring PWC, right?
                No dude it’s MEAT. Like FLESH. Ignore that I can stab into and cut through it with a dinner knife with relative ease. And that I can’t do that to live humans. Nope that doesn’t matter at all…

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >>In a few select tests rifle rounds 3,000 fps were tested to analyze the wounds in tissue. Dissection showed tearing, which increases overall wounding. Only minimal tearing was ever witnessed during 5.7mm testing and we believe the effects were nominal and did not contribute to any measurements or data

                Read your fucking own little cope paper retard. The above quote is about the tests in meat and your own source explicitly states any tearing was very small compared to a real rifle, and wouldn't have done shit for wounding.

                >ACTUAL FUCKING MEAT. The thing people are actually made of
                People aren't made out of an 8" slab of brisket you mongoloid. The average person is ~10-12 inches thick according to the FBI. The vast majority of that human cross section isn't cow muscle. Fucking use your brain a little.

                You're simping for a stupid round and if it was worth a fuck large entities would be issuing it to their troops/officers. Nobody is because it gets continuously clowned on by cartridges that aren't gimmicks.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >perform like a rifle round
              Only if the rifle round in question is .22Mag.
              Fackler et al have tested high speed projectiles in excess of 5000fps to study their wounding capabilities, to see if any as of yet unquantified mechanics existed. They found none. A .224 projectile at 2000fps isn't doing any magical damage to tissue, and it doesn't matter what the manufacturer claims.

              The only handgun round that starts to show massive TC volumes which approach intermediate rifle rounds is .44Mag. Some .44Mag loads can stretch tissue beyond elastic capacity, thereby increased permanent wound cavity volume. Not a single 5.7 load on earth, even fired from a rifle, is anywhere near this.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Look at the holes in meat produced in

                There are independent tests of it that outright prove it has performance more like a rifle than a handgun. Yes, the marketing is cringe, but it gets fucking results. See "2016-17 Joint Agency Ballistics Test for Defensive Handgun Ammunition (pdf)"
                https://viperweapons.us/ballistics-testing-1

                Holes of that size are simply not possible with traditional expanding or fmj handgun rounds. Only 5.7 and screwdrivers.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >look at these unverified marketing photos provided by a company trying to earn a profit
                No, retard. Ballistic testing isn't magic, its quantified knowledge, the mechanics are immutable. Projectiles destroy tissue by directly crushing it, and impelling it outwards, radially, away from the path of penetration. If a projectile does not stretch tissue far enough to permanently tear it then than is temporary cavity, non destroyed tissue.
                2000fps 5.7 is not magically more damaging than even higher velocity .44Mag carrying drastically more energy. No marketing photos can change the objective nature of reality.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Also some of the images hosted on the site are literally stolen from Doctor Gary K. Roberts without credit. They're presenting them as if they're their own test samples. Absolute fraud, and it shows you're a shit eating retard for believing them on face value.
                https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/#mozTocId604639

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Also some of the images hosted on the site are literally stolen from Doctor Gary K. Roberts without credit. They're presenting them as if they're their own test samples
                stfu, pretty pathetic all you have to turn to against 5.7 is ad hom attacks. You probably use 9mm and think it's "good enough" like a true retard.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                9mm is good enough, you retarded larper.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Also some of the images hosted on the site are literally stolen from Doctor Gary K. Roberts without credit. They're presenting them as if they're their own test samples.
                Who fucking cares? That doesnt matter
                >Absolute fraud
                Only if Robert’s is a fraud. But he’s not

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Copeguard Black Fang
              overprice gimmik trash
              for gays
              and morons

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >that image
            >this post
            I wasn't expecting this much cope to be quite honest with you.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >those girls

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The vmax fragmenting have God frontal surface area and the recoil on these guns is extremely light. I see the appeal, whatever quality marksmanship you shoot now in 9mm you'll be noticeably faster with a 5.7 gun. If you handload and are willing to deal with the pain in the ass of reloading them it is there's people getting near 2000fps with vmax and it's still noticeably softer shooting.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              *good
              Forgive my phoneposting

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            my sides

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            22lr is literally for playing and plinking and duds are not only not a big deal but expected. You are an imbecile making apples to oranges comparison. Fuck you.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So much poorfag copium. Youre the type to say id buy it for a dollar.
            >verification not required
            Because its true

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >retarded
        >dismissive
        >ignorant
        >cynical
        yep its a PrepHole post

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >compares a 5” barrel to a 21” barrel
        Ok retard

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    5,7 will be next carry round when it has cost and availability of one.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >shoot a mugger
      >cost myself more than just giving him my wallet

      54¢ a round isn't affordable?

      I had an FN five seven for a while and it's an absolute bitch to carry with a light. it's too big for universal mag pouches and the phlster floodlight, which essentially means you need made to order shit to conceal it. it's a duty gun more than anything.

      Rock 5.7 uses damn near any open-ended glock holster, can't speak for light-bearing ones but more options are being made every week.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Who carries FMJ?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Is the lehigh defense screwdriver shit technically fmj?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Copper solid

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >full metal jacket
            >jacket
            It's not jacketed if its all one metal

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Copper solid

              Isn't copper solid generally the same issue that anon was addressing though? The idea was that FMJ is bad because of overpenetration and you shouldn't carry it. Copper solid is generally used for more penetration.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Solid copper rounds typically use advanced fluid dynamics to rapidly dump energy into the target.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Nah, thats the exception not the usual. All copper RN, FN, Wadcutter, and HPs are the typical. THV, XD, and super cavitating big game rounds are relatively niche and new in comparison.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >54¢ a round isn't affordable?
        No and quit pretending it is, especially for range ammo. 9mm is less than half that.
        .45 is 20cpr cheaper and even 10mm is 10-15cpr cheaper. Why would I shoot 5.7 at 54cpr when I can shoot 5.56 at 65% of the cost. I can find .308 for 60-63cpr, which is less of an increase than going from another round to 5.7 and is a full sized rifle cartridge. None of this factors in reloading either, which is a pain in the ass for 5.7.

        It’s not about being able to afford it. It’s about the value compared to other options.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I had an FN five seven for a while and it's an absolute bitch to carry with a light. it's too big for universal mag pouches and the phlster floodlight, which essentially means you need made to order shit to conceal it. it's a duty gun more than anything.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      just OC it
      also the Rock trigger fucks

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I live in FL anon

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What’s wrong with made to order shit? That just means it's an even better fit.

      Also you are definitely fat.

      My Five Seven is easier to conceal than my p226 or my g20. It’s also very light which makes a world of difference when wearing it for hours.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm not fat and I don't want to have to deal with the hassle of sending out my firearm and magazines for made to order holsters with no support. I traded the five seven for a USP 9 tactical and couldn't be happier

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >custom holster
          Vedder carries this IWB holster on their website, as do several other companies.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm noticing a distinct lack of X300 compatibility here

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Good. Light bearing holsters are the biggest cause of in-holster NDs.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I've been carrying AIWB with a light for years but I'm not a retard so I'm fine

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why is that?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They create a gap around the trigger for the light to be able to fit in. The only way to safely make a lightbearing holster would be for a light that's no wider than the trigger guard at any point.

                I've been carrying AIWB with a light for years but I'm not a retard so I'm fine

                I'll take no possible way of something happening over a slim chance.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                if tthat's the case, stop carrying with one in the chamber

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Don't have to when the trigger is actually properly blocked making it physically impossible to pull, unlike with light compatible designs.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >They create a gap around the trigger for the light to be able to fit in. The only way to safely make a lightbearing holster would be for a light that's no wider than the trigger guard at any point.
                This is some nu-fuddlore. The gap doesn't make the holster unsafe. It's still perfectly safe. I've carried AIWB for years hiking through the woods with a light bearing holster and never has my gun even come close to firing itself.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I mean having gaps around the trigger large enough to allow intrusion has been just about always considered a design flaw, with few exceptions(namely those leather quick draw ones). Anytime ive seen or heard of another holster maker with sloppy fitment allowing possible intrusion people have been quick to call them shit for it. Not arguing its a serious problem or not, just pointing out that complaining about that isnt new.

                Didn't people years ago figure out that you can use 55gr .224 bullets? Cases aside that's cut costs down a bit and while you'd lose some speed you can readily get "ap" projectiles in that form. I remember Barnes had to stop selling their copper solids for this reason or something. I'm sure you'd lose velocity but I bet the right load could still get you 1800fps or better.

                > I bet the right load could still get you 1800fps or better.
                id bet 1500-1600fps is more realistic

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >They create a gap around the trigger for the light to be able to fit in.
                The holster still covers the trigger.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Pretty sure thats actually safetyless striker fired meme guns

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If you’re going to ND reholstering you’ll do if eventually without a light too.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >My Five Seven is easier to conceal than my p226 or my g20
        >comparing a gun basically no one carries to two other guns basically no one carries
        Oh so it’s slightly smaller than a G20, known for being a big handgun. Great.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shit, that’s cool. Yet another pistol to be on the lookout for
    Though, I don’t particularly like the barrel sticking out

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Though, I don’t particularly like the barrel sticking out
      If you put a comp on it that lines up with the barrel it'll mitigate the "barrel sticking out" look.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Though, I don’t particularly like the barrel sticking out
      If you put a comp on it that lines up with the barrel it'll mitigate the "barrel sticking out" look.

      What makes you think thats not a thread peotector?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It is a thread protector https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEvT2kunQ-8&t=92

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    30 SneedChuck at least made sense for what it was designed to do. 5.7 is just pointless unless you have the evil cop killer bullets. I still want a PS90 for the novelty of it, but I don't see the appeal of all these other guns.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      5.7 actually has excellent terminal performance, as seen by the fort hood shooting where everyone who was shot in the torso died and the only people who lived were those who were shot in the limbs. While any pistol round *can* kill in a single torso hit, it's not to be expected and seeing multiple back to back kills on every target shot in the torso in a single shooting event is pretty damn impressive.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        a single shooting spree I don't think is enough of a sample size to really say either way.

        Based on that singular event, sure it has pretty decent terminal characteristics, but without a larger sample size it's basically impossible to say with any degree of certainty.

        With rounds like 9mm or .40S&W we have dozens or even hundreds of well-documented shootings to draw statistical relevance from. We just don't have that depth of understanding with 5.7

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The moron who shot up Virginia Tech killed more people with 9mm and 22lr. The 2009 Fort Hood shooter also used a .357 Magnum in addition to a Five-seveN.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The 2009 Fort Hood shooter also used a .357 Magnum in addition to a Five-seveN.
          No he didn't, he CARRIED a .357 on him during the shooting, he at no point during the shooting used the gun.

          > A Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver (an older model) was later found on Hasan's person, but he did not use it to shoot any of the victims

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >as seen by the fort hood shooting where everyone who was shot in the torso died and the only people who lived were those who were shot in the limbs.
        >He's still posting the lie and hopping nobody bothers to check
        Lmao 5.7 defense force is truly pathetic

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I have no dog in this argument but what's the lie?
          t. 10MM club

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Its literally the truth, you are the liar. You will post no proof because you have none, because you are a pathetic liar.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Apparently it has pretty good soft armor penetration even out of a handgun even without AP rounds, so long as you’re within pissing range of the target. Not the most useful perk but it’s something on 9mm and 30sc.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'd say you're still better off aiming at the pelvis if you see someone wearing body armor, IIIA/III/IV, doesn't matter. Even if your 5.7 CAN penetrate IIIA, just aim for the pelvis anyway.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No and thats because youre an idiot.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    not personally a fan of trigger safeties, but looks fine otherwise.

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why did they put the lightning cuts in? I was seriously considering one for a minute and I'm actually mad now.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      ...are you stupid?

      It's not so that the gun is lighter, it's so that you can grip the slide when wet/cold/freezing and/or wearing gloves or something.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Cool but lightning cuts normally refer to cut out holes in the slide to make it easier for shit to get inside it and have the gun malfunction. Very important feature for retards who forget where there barrel is though.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i'm not sure, but the M&P 5.7 has a wierd 2 piece rotating barrel and a gas system so it might have to do with that

      ?t=53

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >not having 10k surplus ammo for this beauty

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You absolute lucky and magnificent bastard.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Single stack, unreliable malfunctioning safety, the last of the surplus i found had an outrageous dud rate, like 30% duds you should have seen the freakout on the akfiles. These seemed cool when they were 300 dollars and i was broke.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    why is 5.7 good? can you even give a reason other than muh armor piercing?

    also none of you 5.7 cultists ever actually OWN a gun in 5.7

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You are wrong

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >posts felony
        >keeps serial numbers visible

        u goin to jail

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Ah yes clearly you can somehow see into anon's file cabinet where he keeps his SBR paperwork

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >thinking a pigger would dare go against the Chad.7
          I love the smell of roast piggie in the morning*~~
          Stick to your playground toys

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I don't own one either, but it's "good" in the gun it was actually meant for: The full-auto P90 with a 50 round magazine of AP projectiles. The FiveseveN was just a gimmick FNH made to give the 5.7x28 cartridge more legitimacy and sell as an add-on bonus to the P90 in case it was adopted and saw widespread use in NATO.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Kinda want ngl

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Cool, now there are four handguns chambered in 5.7 to choose from. Anyone else making ammo?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Keltec P50
      >S&W 5.7
      >Ruger 5.7
      >PSA 5.7
      >FNH 5.7
      >MPA 5.7
      >Diamondback 5.7
      >CMMG 5.7
      Theres a few conventional handguns, handful more large format handguns also chambered in it. Still nobody new making the ammo that I know of though. Its weird that the popularity has exploded while mainstream ammo has remained so shitty

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >no commercial loaded 52gr BTHP
        >no 60-65gr softpotnts
        >no custom 45gr TSX
        >no wide meplat TBBC or Gold Dot load
        The case has so much potential. People just don't care, the fanboys are literal retards who think garbage ammo is magic.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >no commercial loaded 52gr BTHP
          too slow, icepicks
          >no 60-65gr softpotnts
          too slow, icepicks
          >no custom 45gr TSX
          too slow, likely icepicks
          >no wide meplat TBBC
          would likely underpenetrate, marginally expanding 5.7 loads are typically getting 12-13" of penetration
          >or Gold Dot load
          actually there is one, expansion is less than ideal though

          The thing with 5.7 is its at this awkward spot where it just doesnt have quite enough power. You want 1800fps IV bare minimum to even start to see some reliable increase in wounding from TSC with an expanding .224" projectile, and thats assuming good expansion. To get that sort of velocity you have to drop down to the 35-40gr range and run a Hispanicy load, which typically will just barely hit that velocity while just barely penetrating adequately. Otherwise you choose between adequately deep .22lr tier wounds or under penetration with SOME TSC wounding.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why talk entirely out of your ass when all of these things I mentioned have been tested by reloaders, by Brassfether, or other major orgs who have published data?
            Why do you shit eating retards post at all? Are you just some ghetto moron idiot compelled to flap his gums?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Clarify your claim and post your sources, anon, youre sounding like a hysterical woman right now.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                moron, how about you post your sources for your 100% genetic shitskin retard asspulled claims. There is literally a Brassfetcher document filled with load data showing how they ground down off the shelf TSX projectiles and tuned them to perform in 5.7 brass. There are over a decades worth of custom loads on the fiveseven forum that anyone can just stumble across on the most cursory of searches.
                You, specifically you, you fucking shitposting retard, what makes a person like you just type out asspulled nonsense and lies? What makes a fuckup shitskin like you post such nonsense as if you'd never be called out for you? You act like you have authoritative information, responding to me when I literally have objective data at my finger tips. Why are you like this?
                I want you to actually answer, full form, without your precious little morongay ego in the way. Why do you talk out of your ass about subjects you are not intimately familiar with?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >reeeeeeee
                >but bubbas pissin hot reloads i cant source
                >reeeeeeee
                lmao you sound like a child throwing a tantrum. Velocity fig for TSC wounding is sourced from Dr roberts, velocity claim for 5.7 from looking at the actual real world chrono results of factory ammunition of various makers from the mainstream to the boutique. If its so wrong itll be easy for you to prove instead of just sitting their pissing and shitting yourself in impotent rage

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >>no commercial loaded 52gr BTHP
              >>no 60-65gr softpotnts
              >>no custom 45gr TSX
              >>no wide meplat TBBC or Gold Dot load
              Don’t exist according to you. Also
              >all of these things I mentioned have been tested by reloaders, by Brassfether, or other major orgs who have published data?
              So which is it?

              5.7 doesn’t have the case capacity or OAL to load 60gr bullets. 50-52 would be a stretch since you’re going to lose too much velocity to make it good. I’m happy to be proven wrong, but I don’t think I am.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Didn't people years ago figure out that you can use 55gr .224 bullets? Cases aside that's cut costs down a bit and while you'd lose some speed you can readily get "ap" projectiles in that form. I remember Barnes had to stop selling their copper solids for this reason or something. I'm sure you'd lose velocity but I bet the right load could still get you 1800fps or better.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            AP rounds going sub 2k FPS is expensive FMJ. it won't penetrate because velocity is king. you're better off casting solid copper projectiles

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You are so fucking stupid it hurts.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you literally will not penetrate anything higher than level 2 armor at sub 2000 FPS.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why do you write things like this when its so easy to look up, retard? Why litttle gay retard. Subsonic 55gr M93 will fly through both sides of a IIIA vest. An AR with a 16" barrel firing M193 can totally rape a IIIA vest at over 700 yards.
                Why even try to post your ass pulled gay retard nonsense? Literally what makes you shitskin idiots like this? Why do none of you ever have an answer for this?
                FNH SB193 is a factory subsonic load that penetrates IIIA kelvar armor, subsonic, it literally cannot even reliably cycle the slide of the the FiveseveN handgun.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                post some empirical evidence of a subsonic 5.7mm round penetrating IIIA armor

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not him, but holy fuck are you retarded.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Look it up on youtube before posting you stupid 75 IQ fuckup. Are you literally a high school drop out? How are you this god awful fucking stupid?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Are you fucking stupid? There are tons of videos of it doing just that

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                IIIA is fucking nothing

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                IIIA is what the VAST majority of police wear if they're wearing a vest every single day.

                III and IV rated plates are just too heavy/bulky to regularly wear unless you're door kicking SWAT or something.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Subsonic 55gr M93 will fly through both sides of a IIIA vest. An AR with a 16" barrel firing M193 can totally rape a IIIA vest at over 700 yards.
                Are you fucking high? Subsonic means below ~1125 fps. Lead core rounds aren’t going through at 1100fps. At 700 yards M193 from a 16” barrel is dropping below 1200 fps. That’s not penetrating a vest, let alone both sides of one. If it could, then a 40gr velocitor from a .22 would beat IIIA, which it doesn’t.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Are you fucking high?
                Are you?

                >a 40gr velocitor
                Pointy jacketed bullets punch kevlar much better than blunt lead bullets, who knew.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I’ll admit, I’m impressed and didn’t know it could do that. However SB193 is not just a pulled M193 55gr loaded into 5.7. SB193 has a steel jacket covered by a thin copper jacket. That’s why it penetrated. Just a standard lead and copper bullet won’t do the same. M193 from a rifle at 700 yards isn’t penetrating both sides of a vest. I still don’t think it would go through 1. A steel jacket changes things dramatically.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >. However SB193 is not just a pulled M193 55gr loaded into 5.7. SB193 has a steel jacket covered by a thin copper jacket.
                NO, you fucking retard. Its literally a Sierra M193 projectile, it doesn't have a steel jacket.
                Why do you fucking retards just endlessly talk out of your asses?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                How does it feel to be wrong?

                Buffman even says the jacket is magnetic. In you’re video he says nothing about bullet weight or jacket. The fact it has a steel jacket is why it’s restricted to mil and LE sales only.

                If I’m wrong and it’s just a basic FMJ with zero steel, why doesn’t this penetrate?

                Or this

                Both have a 40gr FMJ. That is moving much, much faster, has the same diameter and same construction, but doesn’t penetrate.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >fuckup retard still talking out of his ass
                The 40gr TMJ has an incredibly thin jacket, the nose deforms when it hits a vest, and gets caught in the weave. Why are you here talking out of your ass about things that have been widely known and circulated for almost 20 years?
                Its takes virtually nothing for a normal spitzer style projectile to sail through IIIA soft armor. The first load, which was the only load for years, of SB193 was literally an off the shelf 55gr BTFMJ from Sierra, a load we on the fiveseven forum recreated and reloaded for longer than you've been alive.
                Retard fuckup.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >The 40gr TMJ has an incredibly thin jacket, the nose deforms when it hits a vest, and gets caught in the weave. Why are you here t
                Oh so maybe there an advantage to a thicket jacket made of a stronger material? Like steel perhaps. Like I showed in buffman owns video

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                ALL 55gr M193 style projectiles have a moderately thick copper jacket when compared to light weight varmint projectiles or even the longer and heavier OTMs.
                But of course you're going to keep talking out of your ass no matter how much you embarrass yourself, you pathological lying morongay

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >However SB193 is not just a pulled M193 55gr loaded into 5.7. SB193 has a steel jacket covered by a thin copper jacket. That’s why it penetrated.
                There's been two versions sold as SB193. The original 55-gr version was an utterly vanilla lead-core, copper-jacket FMJ and does not attract a magnet.
                That's the one in the video I posted before.

                The newer 62-grain version has a bimetal jacket, as you said, and attracts a magnet. That's this one:

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Bullshit. You can certainly beat level IIIA. For fucks sake even 9mm has multiple rounds that beat IIIA

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What does this magical “AP” that uses bullets meant for 5.56 do that can’t be accomplished with existing 5.7 loads?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Didn't people years ago figure out that you can use 55gr .224 bullets?
            I mean, yeah, a factory FNH load is SB193. Its a subsonic, intentionally underloaded load, using a off the shelf Sierra M193 projectile. This is one of their factor AP offerings, it can pierce both sides of a soft armor IIIA vest.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >while you'd lose some speed you can readily get "ap" projectiles in that form.
            The only steel core you can in .224 is SS109 which is too long and heavy for 5.7. It would only beat IIIA anyhow which you can do already.
            >I remember Barnes had to stop selling their copper solids for this reason or something
            No they didn’t. Copper (normal copper Barnes uses) isn’t an armor piercing material

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >isn’t an armor piercing material
              Yet it still pierces IIIA in testing. Even if you don't consider it armor piercing, the fact it can pierce armor is good enough for government work.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Correct. I wasn’t denying it can’t pierce soft armor. However
                >Barnes had to stop selling their copper solids for this reason or something
                Isn’t true. That’s my point. They didn’t have to stop selling it because it can beat armor.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The gun selection is fine. But until we have better ammo options there isn’t a point to switch. Also if you want IIIA penetration carry a 4” 9mm and use Lehigh 68gr XDs. I’ve penetrated a IIIA panel with them from a 3” barrel in a Hellcat. A 4” gives you more range to penetrate and should work against better vests.

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If it's gonna start with a 5 it better be .50cal.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What the fuck

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/XRd1Wss.jpg

        If it's gonna start with a 5 it better be .50cal.

        Moooods! The deep ones are posting again!

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Immortal fish people are fucking morons incarnate, basically gypsies. You'd carry a 500 s&w too if it meant keeping TyThullu from reaching for your bag every 20 seconds and trying to spawn with your girlfriend.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >TyThullu

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I’m on the side of the 5.7, it does everything 9mm fags tout their cartridge does but better.
    >more ammo capacity
    >less recoil for shot placement
    >same damage because “all handguns cartridges have the same ballistics”
    The only reasonable argument against it is cost and difficulty reloading. Both of which aren’t an issue for most people and the cost can go down if it grows more popular.
    NOW with that said, I’ll let you know some information I’ve heard from a spec ops veteran (can’t remember what he was exactly) who saw a lot of combat.
    He said that 5.56 is about as effective as you’d expect. Like 1-3 shots landed usually killed depending on shot placement and distance. He claimed that .308/7.62x51 was devastating and would drop people like a sack of rocks no matter the variables.
    Somehow, idk how he knew this because I didn’t know anyone used 5.7 in the armed forces, but he said it was a weak shitty round that required a mag dump essentially to kill someone.
    I don’t necessarily believe him but he seemed credible as a person.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      LARPy or not, nothing in your post is inconsistent.
      All handguns are inherently "you have to mag dump to kill somebody" weapons unless you immediately brain a moron, even video of one-shot stops often show the perp doesn't really look like he's "stopping"

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This some of the weakest bait I've seen in a while. This bait would've been better if you'd gotten drunk first and then posted.

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The more I look at the ccw handgun caliber spectrum the more I like 40 S&W
    Jokes aside, it's perfect, it's fast enough to expand, and heavy enough to broach through flesh without any tumbling or special hydrostatic gel cinematic effects

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Get a shot timer, go to a real outdoor range, see how fast you can run a course and what your split times are with 9mm vs .40

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >see how fast you can run a course and what your split times are with 9mm vs .40
        Why, am I going to be shooting 5 people through an outdoor maze filled with empty metal barrels and cardboard walls? Show me one self defense scenario where someone needs to shoot like it's call of duty. I'm not breaching the pentagon.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >can't understand how a reactive scenario where timing is objectively measured can reflect on performance in any other high stress scenario
          I swear its like talking to a room full of black kids in the 4th grade. You're so stupid you don't even qualify as human.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >reactive scenario where timing is objectively measured
            You mean a scenario where you're expecting danger, expecting to shoot, vs a real life scenario where your guard is down?
            >inb4 guard always up abnr
            It will catch you off guard. Criminals are like animals, they look for unsuspecting victims, not ones with their head on a swivel.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Oh yeah
              >expecting to shoot in a non-dangerous scenario vs adrenaline dumping in a deadly scenario that catches you off guard

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Oh yeah
              >expecting to shoot in a non-dangerous scenario vs adrenaline dumping in a deadly scenario that catches you off guard

              >retard making endless excuses for why he can't go outside and run a simple course
              Many such cases

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >just run the course bro please I swear it's like real life bro

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes. Retard.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You might just be batn, but there was a time in my life where I thought like you." IPSC ? Im not going to rob a bank". People rightfully laughed at me. Run the course.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No one said it’s real life. But it does test skills and puts you on the clock

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I get where you are going, but 45 is technically also a viable carry round, and it's even further down the same scale. Less shots, slower shots, more "stopping power".

        9x25 Dillon is better. Just as .357 Sig is better than 40 S&W

        >10mm=.357sig>9mm>.45>.40>everything else>9x25 dillon
        9x25 is a trash meme cartridge for anyone but home gunsmiths who handload

        This is the round made for fast shooters. Major pf. Light bullet. Much blast for them ported barrels and muzzle brakes. Obsolete and irrelevant. In about 10 years, someone will make a limited run of 16" barrels for AR-15 chambered in it and it will become the meme it always deserved to be.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's also good for penetrating common lighter cover and still penetrating deep enough with a fairly thick slug. It is unironically a good caliber aside from

      Get a shot timer, go to a real outdoor range, see how fast you can run a course and what your split times are with 9mm vs .40

      There is a difference and it's why I prefer 9mm.

      Imo, it is the perfect caliber for law enforcement.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      .40 is coming back man I can feel it.

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >48 degrees american
    yeah, its range day

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why havent i ever seen any karrin murphy anime-ified OC in AKG? i shouldnt have to ask for this, it should already be a thing

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >study

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        i cant post pdf's but you if you search "2016/17 joint agency ballistic test for defensive handgun ammunition," you'll find a copy of it

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I know what the source is, hence:
          >study

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            what exactly is wrong with it then

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              oh yea good point hang on i found another newer study on the subject with similar provenance, made with the assistance and at the request of the FBI no less

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                still haven't answered my question :^) whats your problem with the study? do you think its just an unreliable source in general? or were their testing methods inconsistent? whats up dont be a dingus

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            https://i.imgur.com/tZuMUyw.png

            oh yea good point hang on i found another newer study on the subject with similar provenance, made with the assistance and at the request of the FBI no less

            why do you have the thought process of a moron tho?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >n-no u!
              anon i really hope youre laughing too rn otherwise

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                being a sceptic moron is not the great sign of intelligence you think it is

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >5.7 is the new carry round
    basically asking for the ATF to just ban it outright and confiscate every 5.7 pistol

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That's a pretty cool niche gun, all 5.7s might as well come with threaded barrels since you need a long ass 5" barrel minimum to get decent ballistics. The grips also have to be longer since the round is so long. I wouldn't say 5.7s are good carry guns, they need those long barrels and long grips. It's an ok performing round in some areas, flat shooting and AP capabilities. But you need to look up expansion and penetration tests. They don't always penetrate to the FBI minimum and almost never reliably expand. Not a good all around handgun/self defense round since expansion is the primary mechanism of harming the target. 5.7 on the other hand is only good when you use the AP rounds and only good at AP when using them. That's what it was designed for and what it does good at (for a round that can be fired out of such small guns) but it does not do better than the plethora of other well established self defense handgun rounds.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >expansion is the primary mechanism of harming the target
      Its a shit wounding mechanic compared to tumbling, which 5.7 excels at.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They don't tumble. Go look up some gel tests yourself. I don't think you'll be impressed.

        With very specific and hard to find ammo types, it does alright. Penetration is always garbage, even out of the 16" barrel PS90, even with the AP ammo. I guess I'm just impressed by the fact that a small .22-esque round can make a decent wound channel for the first 4-5" of penetration, but that isn't really adequate. I wouldn't invest much in this round unless I needed a small package to get through soft armor and that was my only concern. I would however throw my money at any company who makes a gun as sexy as these 5.7s but in more practical calibers.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I am impressed. Very impressed. Just not in the FN brand of ammo. https://youtu.be/w3eTHn9VrzE

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Specialty ammo. Doesn't do better than 9mm, certainly not enough to justify a switch and take all the tradeoffs that using 5.7 would come with.

            the sheer stupidity of this post.
            I've shot raccoons and possums ass to head with this round and it tears them apart. You've probably never even shot 5.7, get fucked retard moron.

            I'm not doubting its efficacy as a hot .22 load lmao, but that's what I'm calling it.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              And? So what if its specialty ammo, its 5.7. Does a LOT fucking better than 9mm.
              And it works against pigs, 9mm can't get through their kevlar.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It doesn't do better than 9mm in any test I've seen, not even armor penetration. Just because you're an edgy daddy issues kid I'm not going to tell you how 9mm can be made to penetrate armor.

                The fn 5.7 was by far the easiest full-sized handgun to conceal for me. I would forget I was carrying it.

                >conceals a fullsize
                t. Fatso

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >fat
                Ive CCd fat, and skinny. Its much easier to conceal a handgun when you're skinny. Im not relaying this information to inform you, im just pointing out you're a moron.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I AIWB carry my Five-seveN. It’s easier and lighter than my Glock 45. It’s also more fun to shoot. But I’m 6’3” and 235lbs, so you probably just think I’m fat

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I'm fat so you probably just think I'm fat

                Yeah I'm not going to "conceal" a 5" barrel 22 round handgun at a non-fat stature.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >cannot conceal, an easily concealable gun

                manlet detected.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >an easily concealable gun
                Full sized pistols are not easily concealable. Just because something can be concealed, doesn’t mean it’s easy. You’re lying or larping if you think that.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Look bub, I did it. It was much easier to carry than my glock 19 or hk p7. Its a light, thin pistol. iwb/ kydex /kidney. if the ammo that's available now was available then, I would have kept it. didnt like the safety.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you can conceal pretty much any handgun if you AIWB dude, its not hard.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >9mm can't get through their kevlar.
                68gr Lehigh do

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >a hot .22 load lmao, but that's what I'm calling it.
              By that logic so is 5.56. Or .22-250

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        concur 5.7 leaves crazy wound channels and really gnarly exits.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You all are just fucking lying at this point. The wound channels are sad. The only time 5.7 leaves even a remotely impressive wound channel, it doesn't penetrate that far. You get a skinny but ugly wound channel for like 5" that just abruptly stops. I'd rather put a hollowpoint through someone.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            the sheer stupidity of this post.
            I've shot raccoons and possums ass to head with this round and it tears them apart. You've probably never even shot 5.7, get fucked retard moron.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Isn't there a imagine of some guy who accidentally shot himself in the gut and it basically empties his abdominal cavity

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you mean this?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Christ

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                decent advertising aye?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah it is basically extra Hispanicy 22WMR, makes sense it would be good for small game

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >the varmint ventilator is at it again
          But anon, why does every other single person in the world who has used 5.7 on actual medium sized game or people completely disagree? is everybody but you lying? or are there maybe anatomical differences at work which make the 5.7 a more effective varmint cartridge than medium game one?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The fn 5.7 was by far the easiest full-sized handgun to conceal for me. I would forget I was carrying it.

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >everyone is a giant pussy with weak wrists 10mm won’t catch on

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      9x25 Dillon is better. Just as .357 Sig is better than 40 S&W

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >10mm=.357sig>9mm>.45>.40>everything else>9x25 dillon
        9x25 is a trash meme cartridge for anyone but home gunsmiths who handload

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The terminal ballistics of modern 9mm is basically the same as .45

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It really isn't. The hottest 9mm comes in at 500 ft/lbs (+P+) and the hottest .45 ACP (+P) comes in at 800 ft/lbs. .45 ACP expands anywhere from .7-.9" while 9mm usually ranges from .5-.6". .45 ACP also has a much larger permanent wound cavity. The only argument for 9mm is that you get more attempts at a cns hit and it's more controllable. There has never been anything close to parity in regards to the wounding unless you're comparing fmj's to hollow points.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Sorry, typo. 600 ft/lbs, not 800

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Only 100 ft/lbs over only one fifth to one third more of a inch is going to have a negligibly bigger wound cavity.
                It'll be measurable, even visual in ballistics gel.
                But not enough to cause bleed out at an actionably different rate.
                And as you said, you get more attempts with 9mm.
                If you're min maxing your chances, there's no reason to carry .45 this day and age.
                Not that you can't or that it's even wrong to do so otherwise.
                Some time's I carry cap and ball for shits and giggles.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >The hottest 9mm comes in at 500 ft/lbs (+P+) and the hottest .45 ACP (+P) comes in at 600 ft/lbs
              Not enough of a difference to make a difference. Consider that 5.56, a relatively small rifle round, has an average of about 1200ft/lbs. Neither of those is coming even close to that.
              >.45 ACP expands anywhere from .7-.9" while 9mm usually ranges from .5-.6"
              This only matters in the absolute edge case where you miss an artery or vital organ by a tiny fraction of an inch. If you actually hit someone in the heart or brain, then it doesn't matter if it's a 50. or a .22, they're deal all the same.
              >.45 ACP also has a much larger permanent wound cavity.
              Sure, but considering the points above you're talking about a difference of your assailant bleeding to death in 4 minutes vs. 5 minutes. As far as stopping an attack goes, again it's not enough difference to make a difference.
              >The only argument for 9mm is that you get more attempts at a cns hit and it's more controllable
              Yeah, but the thing is, those are the most important things for a pistol round to be good at. When it comes to pistol rounds literally all that matters is shot placement and penetration. Everything else might as well be discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Not even trauma surgeons can tell the difference between wounds from different pistol calibers, Stoppin' Powah is and has always been a huge meme, and real life isn't a video game where bigger number = more gooder.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Rifle rounds are irrelevant in every day life. You cannot carry a rifle around unless you want your shit kicked in by the police.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >you're talking about a difference of your assailant bleeding to death in 4 minutes vs. 5 minutes
                try 4 minutes or 4 minutes 20 seconds

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    is your new boyfriend not giving you enough attention, ryan?

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    5.7 has always been cool and the more guns will be chambered in that caliber, the better. 9mm and 45 are inherently much heavier round, so 5.7 can only be better as a carry round since the lethality is equivalent.

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >9mm is on its last breath
    9mm is the eternal king of handgun cartridges.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      9mm is the 38 Special of autoloader cartridges
      by which I mean it's killed people for over one hundred years now, it'll keep working if you want to cling to it you fudd

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I was buying the hype, but this enriched gentleman actually used it in a self defense situation and the perp stayed on his feet with 9 shots in him. Now I'm not sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WttAWTqgG7Q

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      did he miss the heart and lungs

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I bet a fragment of a .45 that weighs as much as an entire 5.7 would have hit them

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        50% of the time it works everytime

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >30SC didn’t have a chance
    Because they chambered retarded guns for it. Do you want a 30sc 1911 or m&p that has enough of a capacity in 9mm?
    If they made a 8-9 rnd p238, I'd buy it.
    > 9mm is on its last breath
    It's not because price
    > giant pussy with weak wrists 10mm won’t catch on
    Niche round, same as other big pistol rounds
    >5.7
    It doesn't get fast enough out of a 5" barrel to outperform 9mm like it does out of 10" it's just a 5.7mm ice pick, 9mm can expand at least

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >it's just a 5.7mm ice pick

      ?t=449
      Judging by the tape measure on the table, those permanent cavities look like they're ~.75" or more.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >30SC didn’t have a chance
        Because they chambered retarded guns for it. Do you want a 30sc 1911 or m&p that has enough of a capacity in 9mm?
        If they made a 8-9 rnd p238, I'd buy it.
        > 9mm is on its last breath
        It's not because price
        > giant pussy with weak wrists 10mm won’t catch on
        Niche round, same as other big pistol rounds
        >5.7
        It doesn't get fast enough out of a 5" barrel to outperform 9mm like it does out of 10" it's just a 5.7mm ice pick, 9mm can expand at least

        ?t=400

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        [...]

        ?t=400

        >PWC
        >Based on gel results
        >Clear gel results
        The absolute state of the average dunning-kruger 5.7 paypig. Ballistics gelatin was never meant to model wound diameter and clear gel isn't actual ballistics gelatin at all.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Ballistics gelatin was never meant to model wound diameter and clear gel isn't actual ballistics gelatin at all.
          The purpose of it isn't to perfectly model effects in human tissue, retard. It's to compare different bullets/cartridges/etc. in a repeatable medium. Hence the second fucking video that shows it compared to other common cartridges.
          >dunning-kruger
          Kek, the irony.

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >since everyone is a giant pussy with weak wrists 10mm won’t catch on
    Why isn't 9x25 Dillon being pushed, then? 90gr moving 1900 FPS doesn't kick nearly as bad as 155gr going 1400. Add a comp and the recoil is like a .32 ACP.

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Im actually going to get this and carry it. Carry ammo is expensive already and I have carried a glock 34 for quite a while with a spare mag.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I recommend the PSA Rock, I can tell you that the trigger kicks ass from personal experience and it's like... $500 with enough mags and a holster?
      you could also put a deltapoint micro on it (does The Castle Arms still have them half off?)

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Thanks, but I'll stick with .45 ACP

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's very nice Grandpa, now eat your prunes.

  37. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's an interesting round out of a 9" barrel.
    It's pretty stupid out of a handgun, IMO.
    5.7" handguns only make sense as companion guns to a larger weapon. A Ruger 5.7 pistol paired with pic related would be interesting.

  38. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >It's another 5.7 terminal effectiveness shitflinging thread
    >Same "arguments" pro/con
    >250+ posts later
    Can you at least make trips or something, Christ Almighty.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      its hell, i like 5.7 but it feels like no one is genuine about its capabilities. its not a rifle round, its just a nicer pistol round 🙁 it doesnt deserve hate or eternal praise

  39. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't understand the appeal of necking down in pistol ammo. It is asking for fire ball.

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