5.56

>general public thinks it's some kind of super round
>always talk about how powerful it is, with some people saying things like just one can blow someone in half
>numerous veterans who have actually used it in combat have complained about how hard it can be to actually kill even an unarmored target with it after multiple hits
>some special forces troops in the past have even refused to use 5.56 rifles and used .308/7.62 rifles instead

Which is it?

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  1. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    one thing is for sure and it's that you are moronic

  2. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Both, the public has its shitty view and those who have used it have their view. Not difficult.

  3. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >10 dead children in a room
    >anon comes in
    >actually the 5.56 isn't that powerful and it's an intermediate cartridge, fairly weak actually
    being a Hermione helps no one

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      You talk like a gay and ur shits all moronic.

      https://i.imgur.com/TxAD8gj.jpg

      >general public thinks it's some kind of super round
      >always talk about how powerful it is, with some people saying things like just one can blow someone in half
      >numerous veterans who have actually used it in combat have complained about how hard it can be to actually kill even an unarmored target with it after multiple hits
      >some special forces troops in the past have even refused to use 5.56 rifles and used .308/7.62 rifles instead

      Which is it?

      Both are true. Being hit by a 224 projectile at speed is no joke, but it's not what the morons in the media make of it either.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Take my upvote and get out

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >upvote

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >>40 dead liberal man children in a room
      >>anon comes in
      .22lr isnt that powerful

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Hermione

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      the frick is a hermione

  4. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Idk it do be pretty light to carry tho

  5. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    I was on reddit (yes I'm a gay, but people there are helpful with tech questions) and I saw some guy say that nobody should own an AR-15 because it would be total overkill for even a moose and it had lots of updoots. I laughed.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      There was an instance where some diversity hire RCMP officer tried to kill a Caribou with his C8 Patrol Carbine.

      He ended up just perforating his squad car and the ungulate lived to see another day.

  6. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Military bullet design is fricked and way behind the civilian market. We got shit that'll blow a hole through your chest for crying out loud!

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, aren't hollow tips outlawed by Geneva convention? How many countries actually abide?

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Hague Convention, dumbshit.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          The Hague Convention was held in Geneva smarty.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        No. Some countries just interpret the "no weapons that cause unnecessary suffering" treaty as including HP ammo. Granted, it makes no sense when everyone uses explosives that separate limbs from your body and/or fill your butthole with shrapnel. US military can use HP, but the primary users are cops. FMJ style ammo is also generally cheaper. When actually you look at war conventions and treaties, pretty much the only types of weapons that countries have generally agreed to not use are chemical and biological weapons. Everything else including cluster bombs and incendiaries are fair game.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >hollow point bonus damage
      expanding 5.56 is pointless and no military would use it even if there was no hague convention. anything vaguely spitzer shaped and fast enough will tumble early, with all kinds of bullet designs. armor/barrier penetration is also more important so if you go with a fancier more expensive bullet you would go for that
      compare m885a1 tests to soft points (the soft points arent any better than fmj)

  7. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    I dunno. all combat situation prove youre living in a matrix. If you go outside of the air conditioned room. And actually develop life experience. And in some way put your dick out on the line everyday your perspective of reality changes. Thats 5.56 some people get hit and get giants wounds blown out of them. Some it icepicks. You have to admit some things are outside of your control.

    Take this nam story for example. This new guy was way too edgy. Always on edge waiting for an ambush. The older leader guy came over and told him he was in korea and all the old guys have given up control to a higher power and just relax. If you get hit u get hit. Theres nothing you can do about it. But being that on edge 24/7 is going to drive you nuts.

    words of wisdom from some1 with experience.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Probably why everyone has PTSD now. Is the old guys heard faith was a possibility. You either find faith in that or you get PTSD. I found faith. Ive seen some weird shit. Shit not really possible without something else going on outside of our limited understanding.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        NTA but I think that we overcorrected from the "faith can turn bullets aside" mentality to something a little too individualistic where you need to have the locus of control at all times. The idea of being in total control is nice, but it's literally impossible. Even dominant personalities like giving up control, such as when they choose to get drunk instead of controlling their faculties.
        In a lot of Muslim countries, particularly in the Caucasus, they eschew seat belts because "God will decide if it's my time to die" which is a fricking moronic rationalization but undoubtedly does a lot to take the anxiety out of their lives.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Probably why everyone has PTSD now. Is the old guys heard faith was a possibility. You either find faith in that or you get PTSD. I found faith. Ive seen some weird shit. Shit not really possible without something else going on outside of our limited understanding.

      You can look up a couple of things like applied mandelbrot set and double slit experiment.

      Im on the first episode of 3 body experiment. And I hope thats where theyre going with it. is

      Chaos Theory
      Chaos Magick
      Butterfly Effect.

      5.56 is the double slit experiment. If you observe it its a particle. If you dont observe it its a wave.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Perhaps you have to have faith in 5.56 like if you view it as a powerful round it blows shotgun sized exit wounds. But if your faith faulters it icepicks...I dunno.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          praise Stoner! Have faith in the holy round!

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          I think it has a lot more to do with range, cover, and clothing

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            You sound like a nonbeliever

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Dutch, this .223's a varmint round
          >have some goddamn FAITH, son

  8. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    its boogieman

  9. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Yes.
    It's a highly efficient round. It isn't the most terminally effective as newer boutique intermediate cartridges, nor at ranges others are capable of, but who the frick cares how extra dead a dead guy is?
    >Muh military refused to use it because weak meme
    Absolute fuddlore because they cringed when they saw a smaller round.
    The military had a couple of loadings for 5.56 that were mediocre. M1193 and M855 come to mind. More modern loadings reliably yaw and tumble on contact with squishy things, which is what it was always meant to do in the first place, leaving pretty devastating injuries. A cartridge marketed for hunting will most likely cause even more severe injuries, but dead is dead.
    If you for some reason absolutely NEED better intermediate or light barrier penetration and also need your intermediate cartridge to still be relevant at 800 yards - and you probably don't, as most firefights are within 300 yards - choose Grendel, 6.8, or the new .277, all of which have very comparable performance to .308, which in turn are all completely outclassed by Sneedmoor.
    Terminal ballistics can get pretty wild, but remember, the ideal is that all of the energy of your projectile is converted to wounding. A through-and-through means you've wasted wounding potential that may have saved your ass. Conversely, you still need to do enough to significantly disrupt blood pressure, a vital organ, bones, or the CNS.

  10. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Okay, say it with me.

    There is more difference within a cartridge, than between cartridges.

    What matters is primarily the amount of damage the bullet causes. If a 5.56 causes as much damage as a .25 ACP then it can be expected to be similarly effective. If a 5.56 causes as much damage as the average .308 softpoint then it can be expected to be similarly effective. The caliber headstamp on the respective bullets' casings does not change this. (There is a bit more nuance to this but I am trying to keep things simple.)

    Bullet damage varies vastly with projectile type and behavior. It is pointless to speak of 5.56 as a single, all-encompassing generality when the different loadings frequently do not perform alike. Accordingly, what Pvt. Ramirez said about 5.56 after icepicking some hadji at 300m with M855, is irrelevant if you don't actually use a bullet that behaves like M855 at 300m.

    Here, I will show you 3 examples of .22 SCHV rifle wounding. (One is actually 5.45x39 but it's similar enough to act as a proxy for a nonfragmenting, nonexpanding 5.56 projectile.)

    https://web.archive.org/web/20090219104944/http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler_Articles/ak74_wounding_potential.pdf

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Pic #2

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Pic #3

        What is the difference? Bullet design, the last one actually occurred at the longest range by some substantial margin (impact velocity approximately equivalent to a 10" barrel at the muzzle) and yet caused by far the most damage. This is because it is a heavy JHP that fragments and expands. The first bullet neither fragments nor expands, and the second bullet only (meaningfully) expands, and it may not be particularly form optimized either.

        5.56 can make holes ranging from similar to what you saw in the 5.45 pig test, to the picture of the deer. Now you understand why talking about 5.56 like it's a single fixed unit of damage is generally nonsensical.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          that’s very gruesome and brutal.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Shave your back

  11. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >general public thinks it's some kind of super round
    [citation needed]

  12. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    5.56 at it's maximum engagement range does not carry significant energy to assure a kill. Maximum engagement range is very fricking far. Your maximum effective range to create a group is about 1,000 yards (this was back when the M16 was in common use). It will kill at about 300 meters, at 500 meters it is iffy. In Afghanistan the 5.56 was struggling due to the massive open distances and being shot out of an M4. Iraq was less of a problem due to city fighting or having equipment or heavier guns on hand.

    TL/DR: 5.56 is NOT a choice round to shoot at long distances with. Swapping to a carbine length rifle resulted in carbine length engagement ranges. Surprise. Just like with dicks, those few extra inches matter.

  13. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    depends on barrel length, bullet, and distance
    7 inch steel case 223 will be a lot like shooting someone with a spicy handgun
    16-20 inch 5.56 will do nasty shit at pretty extended distances

  14. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Use a 20" barrel like it was designed for idiot

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      You can cut down to 18" with negligible velocity loss, but any further is where it starts to drop off to non-fragmenting levels. 18" is the minimum, 20" gives you like 100 more FPS with the small loss of maneuverability.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Oh no my two inches of indoors maneuverability
        Nobody has any reason to consider CQC.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >I will never travel through or around buildings and tight spaces ever
          >I will never travel through moderately dense brush ever
          >I will never sit in a car ever
          >The reduced weight afforded by not only the shorter barrel but also the shorter rail necessary to accommodate a short gas system will never ever be helpful

          Putting aside the fact that "close range" engagements don't need to consist entirely of room clearing, you literally don't need to ever engage at CQB distances for reduced barrel length to be helpful for the purposes of convenience.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >CQC
          that’s what your sidearm is for. but yes, avoid CQC at all cost

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous
            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >real operators
              stop larping. if a bad guy breaks in your house you will encounter CQB

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              A autist should have no preference in weapons or ticks

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >You can cut down to 18" with negligible velocity loss, but any further is where it starts to drop off to non-fragmenting levels
        What the actual frick are you talking about? Do you think the round just stops fragmenting once you go under 18"? Do you grasp how moronic it is to rely on fragmentation thresholds in general, given how inconsistent is it? Do you understand that not all 5.56 rounds are the same?

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why is it trendy now to pretend that M193 is the only loading still available and that there's a meaningful different in velocity between a 20" barrel and a 16" barrel? Like we have the internet at our fingertips yet it seems that being willfully moronic on this subject is all the rage these days here.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Cheapest target ammo on the shelf in the highest quality
        >why now
        Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          English please?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            M193 and by extend basic b***h 55gr ammo has always, always, been the cheapest and most plentiful ammo on the shelf. Therefore the crowd with 20"ers have the easiest common denominator to fall back on.
            >why is this just now a thing
            Maybe if you've just gotten into guns over the last month it would seem like there is a strong uptick in this sentiment. However, due to the nature of m193 always being the cheapest option this has been a thing perpetuated on the internet since the internet gun culture became a thing. I used a big word or two in there if you need help deciphering them I'd be glad to offer you aid.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              Anon, 55gr .223 =/= M193, Tula doesn't even breech 3000fps MV most of the time which is about the velocity of a proper M193 round at around 75y, so try to at least get that right before trying to act like you're using bigboy thunkery. For that matter, it's long been known that the difference in the big three barrel lengths' "reliable" fragmentation (the quotes are there for a reason) envelope for M193 is extremely marginal, roughly 125y for 20" and 100y for 16" and 14.5". So congrats, you're splitting hairs.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >both of these ammo types are common and cheap
                >uhhh huhhh askhually they're different
                Yeah that's sort of why I separated them.
                >more akshually
                Yeah dude, most people don't jerk off to excel so they go with common knowledge and that common knowledge is cheap round work good. You seem like you have issues picking up on social cues.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Your original response to the msot, which specified M193, was that it was the "cheapest target ammo" and then you equated them again in your follow-up. They aren't the same by any ballistic stretch save for bullet weight. You seem like you have a shit argument and are quick to act like you're intelligent while spouting nothing but lazy conjecture. Then again I've been handloading for a decade so my understanding of things beyond the common layman is probably putting you out of the loop, so I can sympathize somewhat.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >buy cheap target ammo
                >m193
                >oh hey also there's plain jane 55gr that works great too
                >oh boy two for one
                NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you can't do that they're different bullets.
                Wild guy, just wild.

              • 10 months ago
                MilSurpDude

                >Tula doesn't even breech 3000fps MV most of the time which is about the velocity of a proper M193 round at around 75y
                I've actually clocked ~2750 from a batch of Tula out of my A1 at the muzzle a couple years back, it was fricking comical. If you're stacking that shit for your SHTF fantasies then uhhhh lol.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Their QC went down the shitter during COVID, shearing case heads were everywhere so their loads being worse than usual doesn't surprise me

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I've actually clocked ~2750 from a batch of Tula out of my A1
                Holy hell, I'm curious how hilariously low that would be out of the likes of a 7.5 or a 10.5.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Seconding this, those morons have the gal to have the weakest .223 on the market and they can't even get it consistently weak

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Therefore the crowd with 20"ers have the easiest common denominator to fall back on.
              but they don't really have anything to fall back on...

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                That chart is probably going to confuse him, you should probably cut off the bottom results so he isn't overstimulated, and please make it clear that the stated fragmentation threshold is 2700fps and that the bolded velocities are...tell you what, I'll just make things really simple for him and do this.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                While I'm on a roll, I have to reiterate what another anon said about completely relying on fragmentation is moronic, full stop. It is stupidly, *stupidly* inconsistent and more variables than you can grasp are at play determining how the round behaves once metal meets flesh. I've seen 55gr. FMJ have nothing more than a bent nose after impacting a hog between 50 and 75 yards away out of a 16" barrel because it just happened to hit it in an area that just didn't allow for the process to unfold. I've seen it also turn into a hilariously explosive nightmare despite hitting much further away than that effect should have been theoretically possible.

                Fragmentation is nice, but it's also unreliable to the point that basing your entire rifle build around it is stupid.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >making your rifle as effective as possible with the cheapest ammo around
                >bad
                k.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Did you read anything I just posted or are you too poor to comprehend it?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah
                >relying on fragmentation bad
                Cool, for the cost of one ordinary rifle you can optimize it for the cheapest ammo. This sort of cost efficient behavior can be learned in a civics class.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                You should focus more on learning basic literacy rather than civics, because you're clearly struggling in that regard.

              • 10 months ago
                MilSurpDude

                >cheapest
                >cost efficient
                Errytime

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >dude just don't be poor
                Yeah.

              • 10 months ago
                MilSurpDude

                Pretty much, maybe save up a bit more sonny.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                unironically yes.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >people like 20" because it's the best
                >it isn't really, look
                >IT'S CHEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPP
                wow

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >farthest fragmentation range
                >uh actually other things fragment
                >as far?
                >no
                Cool. Today we will be analyzing the word "optimization" and it's implications.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >dude the extra length makes it so I have a maybe kinda better chance of this cheapo bullet doing a bit better than out of this other length. maybe.
                >it matter bro please trust me bro
                >also did it's CHEEEEEEEEAAAAAPP
                man

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >length bad
                k.
                >stats don't real
                k.
                >saving money bad
                k.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/2nHcIie.png

                That chart is probably going to confuse him, you should probably cut off the bottom results so he isn't overstimulated, and please make it clear that the stated fragmentation threshold is 2700fps and that the bolded velocities are...tell you what, I'll just make things really simple for him and do this.

                >for the cost of a 20" barrel you can have a longer fragmentation threshold
                Amazing, I bet you yell at people who have barrels longer than 10" and tell them to stop having fun.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >for the cost of a half foot in extra length you can get probably maybe sorta extra 25y of possible fragging potentiality
                wow

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >6 inches
                >problematic
                For you I guess.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                What are you going to use that extra smidge of frag threshold for anon? If you're relying on bad, obsolete .223 ammo for the boogaloo you have a lot more to be worried about, and same goes for hunting.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Need and not have
                >dude don't stack the cheapest ammo around
                >because I said so
                k.

                You should focus more on learning basic literacy rather than civics, because you're clearly struggling in that regard.

                >wah
                That's it? That's how you're ending your excuse of an argument?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Anon you stack worthwhile stuff and train with the cheap shit if you can't afford to both with the former. If you're bad at financing then that's a personal problem and doesn't mean you get to ignore prepping 101.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                More for less is pretty good. If the cheap stuff couldn't maim or kill you'd probably be on to something.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                You're not getting more for less, you're barely eeking out a theoretical boost from suboptimal ammo in a bulkier rifle package that's substantially longer for a scenario where cheaping out will likely get you killed. You're not being expedient, you're coping.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Coping with what? Does 72gr have head seeking properties I'm not aware of? I mean yeah it works great out of my TCC, but I've never had an issue putting down game from my A1 so what's the point? Instagram likes?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Sure you did. And even in that scenario, did you ever consider that that same game wouldn't have had any trouble being put down by a 16" barrel with the same round being put into the same spot, or are you actually convinced that that extra boost in FPS made all the difference?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Need and not have bby
                >you have to pay a subscription to own anything longer than 16"
                You got scammed

              • 10 months ago
                MilSurpDude

                >my A1
                Post it, I want to critique.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                NDS, with surp everything but the trigger.

              • 10 months ago
                MilSurpDude

                Yeah, let's see it.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                I'm not at home

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >resort to the shittiest ammo possible
                >in the longest AR config possible for the iffy possibility of marginally less shit performance
                >more for less
                wow

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Linear equations are neat
                Hit the gym
                Yeah that's the basic math principle

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >M193
        you're overestimating these homosexuals, they can only afford the most dogshit, lightly loaded 55gr .223 possible and are desperate to get any sort of consistent and viable performance out of it as they can. if 22" barrels were more readily available I swear to you they'd be shilling those.

      • 10 months ago
        MilSurpDude

        /k/ is moronic, more at 11.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          I hate they eye relief on the acog when the rear sight is still attached. When going to the range with my unit I started bringing my own Allen wrench to take off the rear sight and mount the acog further back so that I can have proper eye relief without holding the rifle like a fricking T Rex. And yes my unit is moronic and doesn't issue specific rifles to specific individuals.

          • 10 months ago
            MilSurpDude

            You're absolutely right, suboptimal is only a mild way of describing it. That said, I like how it looks with the Matech BUIS so it stays on since the M4A1 clone is for show more than anything.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              shut the frick up and go back to WT you fricking old shitter

              • 10 months ago
                MilSurpDude

                Now what do you mean by that, whipper snapper?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                put your reading glasses on you stupid old butthole

                now get out of here

              • 10 months ago
                MilSurpDude

                No.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                go on, git

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        I'll stick to my 74gr greased lightning horncandy hypervelocity in my 9.5" CAR15 with detachable carry handle

  15. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    It sucks at ranges you'd mostly be shooting at in war, but I definitely wouldn't want to be shot with one across a classroom. It's fine for your home defense LARP (if you have an 18"+ barrel) but don't grab it if war were declared. Enough soldiers reported that it was insufficient that the US military replaced it. AKbros and battle rifle bros won, deal with it.

  16. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Military guys complain because they reduced barrel length from 20" to 14.5", then gave them shit-ass M855, which is inconsistent as hell in soft tissue ... then they shoot the enemy at 200-300 yards, where it sucks even more. The right loading, barrel length and range, and 5.56 is devastating.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This. M855 is shit really. Within 100m the M193 is better and if your barrel is that short to begin with the 69 and 77 gr options will do the best anyway. 77 gr will fully dump properly even in 10.5" barels out to 150-200m depending on the maker and average your barrel sees.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        77 gr TMK nets 400+ yards of expansion range out of a 10.5".

  17. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >some special forces troops in the past have even refused to use 5.56 rifles and used .308/7.62 rifles instead

    Really?

    Machine gunners use 7.62, so do long range shooters. Green tip 5.56 is still useful in war, and even the FN SCAR shoots 308/7.62x51. But I've read about SF using German guns.

    Yeah the 6.8 is a serious improvement in power. But 5.56, even green tip, is pretty affordable honestly and still deadly. If you don't know much about guns, an AR-15 in 5.56 is a "weapon of war" and a 308 bolt gun is a "weapon for deer"

    When an AR-15 is just a great semi-auto and full auto 5.56 rifle. Even without green tip, you can still pierce flesh and shoot around armor. Meanwhile, a boomer deer gun in 30-06 with AP rounds can shoot for literal miles and has more kinetic energy than a 5.56 or 308. But no one is going after his old wood stock 30-06 nazi hunting rifle that has actually killed people in war.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Personally, I would use 308/7.62 over 5.56 but I'm not some cool badass special forces dude.

      It's a great caliber for hogs and for hogs in body armor, as well as long range shooting and close engagements. Very versatile if you have the physical strength to handle the kick on it.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >But no one is going after his old wood stock 30-06 nazi hunting rifle that has actually killed people in war.

      Except for maybe /k/ users, gun enthusiasts, and their guntubers

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >But no one is going after his old wood stock 30-06 nazi hunting rifle that has actually killed people in war.

        To clarify, Americans used 30-06 in WWII to hunt nazis, not unlike hogs, until they were defeated. The M1903 was the first standardized American sniper rifle, and these long range calibers are used to this day in modern conflicts. 300 WIN is even juicier.

        The focus is always on the rifle instead of the ammo. But the rifle is there to load and deliver the ammunition to the target, and big boolit has lots of powah.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >To clarify, Americans used 30-06 in WWII to hunt nazis, not unlike hogs, until they were defeated.

          Of course I mean no insult to hogs

          I mean total insult to nazis

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Thank God the allies won and we finally get to welcome violent shitskins to our homes and sexual deviants to our schools.
            Kys you fricking npc

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >muh drag queens
              >muh Black folk
              >actually rent free

              picrel, it's you

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                what a fricking midwit Black person

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                enjoy sucking krautwiener and drinking a nice big gulp of zyklon b. fricking swedish males I swear.

                >but im american!!!
                then picrel is also you for thinking a german victory would seriously alter US social policy

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I mean total insult to nazis
            stunning and brave!
            I'd give you reddit gold, we're all too busy clapping!

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Personally, I would use 308/7.62 over 5.56 but I'm not some cool badass special forces dude.

      It's a great caliber for hogs and for hogs in body armor, as well as long range shooting and close engagements. Very versatile if you have the physical strength to handle the kick on it.

      M855 with its tiny, almost mild steel core is not a good armor piercing round. Practically all 5.56 rounds already penetrate Level IIIA, and practically all ceramic Level III and special rifle threat plates will stop M855, as will most steel Level III plates.

      The only thing M855 has any particular advantage over M193 (or most other 5.56 rounds) against is UHMWPE level III and rifle resistant helmets, and it is still not actually good at that, it just sucks somewhat less. Mind, pure UHMWPE level III plates are quite niche, ceramics are the standard for a reason.

      .308 will also not generally pierce Level III armor and above since Level III is literally meant to stop 7.62 M80 by definition. If you handload M2 AP bullets or source some M80A1 then you can beat most Level IIIs but Level IV will stop it cold since it is, in turn, meant to stop basically overpressure .30-06 M2 AP by definition. Unless you source some M993 or ADVAP or whatever you're pretty much out of luck, and even with those rounds you're not a guaranteed penetration by any means.

  18. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    i was told the problem with 7.62 is it just went threw people. in the shoulder, shatter the bone, out the other side. the good thing about 5.56 is a bullet will go in, hit a major bone and reflect, leading to cases of entry in the shoulder, exit out the butt cheek. more stopping power as it has increased chance of hitting major organs.

    that's what i was told anyway.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This is true in some scenarios even with 22LR, it can penetrate and stay inside the target. But they upgraded the round for the hypothetical scenario of a near-peer threat with body armor. Need to reliably penetrate modern body armor with standard infantry to have ammo overmatch.

      If you have AP rounds in 7.62/308/6.8 or stronger for penetrating armor, you have overmatch over fighters with 5.56 or 5.56 green tip. The front line fighters get the XM7, everyone else keeps the M4, for now, but they might roll out the XM7 to everyone if it goes well.

      The 5.56 was invented as a scaled down 7.62x51, but with modern body armor, they are scaling it back up.

      All of this happened because of the Vietnam War.

      The M16 replaced the M14, a wooden gun in 7.62x51. Instead, a plastic gun in 5.56, which would eventually become the M4. Now, a stronger 6.8 round between the two for the (Xperimental) M7. M1, M2, M7, upgrading the fighting rifle of the greatest military in the world. Sets the standard for global conflicts and the private market, as well as law enforcement. Pretty patriotic project to be involved in.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      fuddlore. Bullets do weird things sometimes but 5.56 is not known to bounce around the body like a pinball as normal and routine behavior.

      5.56 FMJ usually fragments at sufficiently high velocities. Many varieties of 7.62 M80 ball do not. That is why 5.56 often did more damage in Vietnam and shit. Some varieties of M80 ball have a sufficiently thin jacket that they will act like a big M193 and then the wound channel looks similar, just scaled up. Both current issue M855A1 and M80A1 will fragment down to low velocities and they are again similar in behavior, M80A1 just increases the scale.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        I think what the boomers mean is that the bullet does not always pass through the target and therefore can leave a larger wound or stay embedded in the target.

        But a larger caliber can penetrate modern armor and pierce the heart and lungs area, killing armored targets with ease.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          The important thing is what the bullet does while it's in the body, this is not solely defined by whether it exits or not.

          It takes an extremely potent round to pierce Level IV armor (basically standard in most western militaries, and relatively easily purchasable for many civilians) with any degree of reliability and consistency, taking into account factors such as angle, range, and the wide variety of armors available. 7.62 M61 AP will not do it. .338 Lapua lead core rounds will not do it (though blunt force trauma may be severe). 163 gr M2 AP loaded in a .300 Win Mag won't do it.

          Not until you step up to M993 tungsten carbide core 7.62 rounds out of a 20" barrel can you pierce *most* Level IV or equivalent plates at extreme CQB ranges with a perfect angle. Step back 100m and it will fail against many of them. Fire at a 45 degree angle at contact range, again, likely to fail. Meet a guy with an XSAPI or LTC 28601 or Adept Colossus, you'll definitely fail to penetrate. This is all with a round rare enough that most soldiers have likely never seen a single one (and, also, China supplies most of the world's tungsten, as well as most of the ceramic powders used for making advanced body armors).

  19. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    here, let me shoot you in the leg with .223 so you can feel how bad it's

  20. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Alright, but which loading in 55gr will turn a skateboarder's lungs and heart to jelly?

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      That loading was Aguila .223 which is frankly one of the worse choices available. Even by .223 pressure 55 gr FMJ standards it's weak.

      Evidently weak .223 55 gr FMJ still works pretty well as long as it actually fragments.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        makes sense the Aguila .22lr is pretty anemic and dirty. I had to run my MK.II almost dry to get it to cycle reliably. It also stinks like catpiss and burnt plastic.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >stinks like catpiss and burnt plastic
          There's a homeless chick by Circle K this sounds like, I'm gonna try and get her number, wish me luck!

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            GLHF

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        I have a couple mags of some extremely spicy 62 grain Aguila 5.56 decent ejector swipe and semi flat primers. It shoots 1 moa right of my 60 grain VMAX loads at 100 yards

  21. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Which is it?
    Yes

    Depends on if you're comparing it to handguns or rifles.
    Compared to handguns it a head-exploiting incomprehensible monster. (inside fragmentation-range)
    Among rifle-rounds it's an anemic little thing.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Society peaked with 30-06. Imagine shooting swords at the enemy

  22. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    556 and 9mm are the pinnacle of cartridges.
    cheap for plinking and training and powerful with top notch loads

  23. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Whoa a 16 inch barrel carbine is only ballistically effective at carbine ranges how come the US military can’t even think

  24. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    M855
    Skinnies
    Icepicking

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Somalians inadvertently created 12.7x42. Thank you Somalia 🙂

      I don’t think “icepicking” was the issue in Mogadishu, I’m pretty sure it was all dense urban combat. They needed skinnies going down faster.

  25. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    The amount of misinformation in this thread is so pronounced I can only assume it's intentional.

  26. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    5.56 is designed to be nasty

    But it cant even fly a bush straight. It thinks its a human body and thinks it needs to roll

    This is sole reason russia will never invade finland. As their roller bullet is more nasty and more roller. Meanwhile traditional 7.62 ak fits forest warfare

  27. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Starting to think this guy was a shitter all along.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Stick to your strengths.

    • 10 months ago
      MilSurpDude

      If you're going to be a poorgay/noguns at least make it entertaining is what I always say, gotta do something to take the edge off the misery of that existence.

  28. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Powerful compared to pistol cartridges
    Weak when compared to other rifle cartridges.

  29. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >general public thinks it's some kind of super round
    This. It's just a super suped-up .22, even tho you can take deer with it, it not suited for that. Thinking of getting a bolt gun in .223 for plinking.
    Having said that, the ar is a hi-capacity semiauto that doesn't kick, so.

  30. 10 months ago
    Anonymous
  31. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Ignoring the fact that the jacket is drawn from the base of the copper slug to be compressed around the steel penetrator, would m855A1 perform arguably better, due to even higher velocity, if it were reduced in length to roughly that of a 55grn m193 projectile? If m855 had been designed as a mild steel tipped 55grain projectile, instead of 62gr, would it also be higher performing against intermediat3 barriers and light armored vehicles? I've been increasingly tempted to try shortening both m855 and A1 projectiles until they are 55gr in weight, then loading them and testing for velocity and comparing them to imi m193.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This is difficult to predict without live testing or at least some complex modeling software or intricate knowledge of armor and barrier penetration. The lighter rounds will almost certainly have a lower BC.

      Note that M855’s issues with AR500 are actually caused by the steel penetrator, not the reduced velocity. The penetrator turns into a plug that forces the rear of the bullet to try to move around it. The result is that M855 wouldn’t do as well as M193 even when fired at the same velocity.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The lighter rounds will almost certainly have a lower BC.
        Of course, and they would be flat base as well after shortening. Potentially they could have a chamfer turned on them again, but quick and dirty lopping off of the tail to reach a desired weight would leave them flat based. My whole basis for doing this is to fight the triple-whammy loss of 5.56 ever having gone towards heavier projectiles for military procurement, that being a heavier projectile, which reduced case capacity, which was adopted in the same era everyone went to a shortened barrel length (or rather, started to). Neither could have designed as short in length as an M193 projectile due to the lesser density of their steel component, barring the use of tungsten powder or DU powder mixed into the lead/copper filler, so case capacity would still have been reduced compared to the 55grn fmj projectile, but not as much as it is for either current loading. This may have reduced the need for A1 to be loaded as hot/high pressure as it is in order to get the desired velocity.
        >turns into a plug that forces the rear of the bullet to try to move around it.
        Is this due to the mild steel tip impact welding itelf to metal, rather than forcing a cylinder of material out of its way like m193 does? If the tip was replaced with a harder material (whether higher density, like a tungsten or tungsten carbide, or lower but still much harder like some sort of ceramic) than the mild steel it has used, would this same behavior be expected against steel plates or other barrier materials? I know thats asking a lot, but previous threads on AP rounds have had posters guessing that ceramic tipped or cored projectiles might fair decently against light barriers and armor. No one has posted amy results of home brewing ceramic cores, except one poster who had glued a fake diamond into a 9mm jacketed hp, and noted that even at a low velocity, the diamond had taken a small divot of material out of the target.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >but quick and dirty lopping off of the tail
          Note that cutting down the base of M855A1 leaves you with a projectile that's open on both ends, which might theoretically run the risk of ejecting the cores while leaving the jacket behind.

          >This may have reduced the need for A1 to be loaded as hot/high pressure as it is in order to get the desired velocity.
          Honestly I don't think it'd be worth the effort to rework the bullets for the sake of having slightly higher relative muzzle velocity. I suspect M855 may actually have a harder time fragmenting at equivalent speeds thanks to the shorter length increasing projectile integrity during yaw. M855A1 doesn't seem to have major problems punching through most barriers to begin with, and I don't think changing the mass-velocity ratio a bit will meaningfully change improve armor penetrating capability.

          >Is this due to the mild steel tip impact welding itelf to metal
          Pretty much I think, Diamond Age offers the explanation here.

          https://diamondage.org/2020/08/24/solving-a-mystery-why-is-m193-better-at-penetrating-steel-armor-plate-than-m855/?fbclid=IwAR12Xvu-knqa78-A1Ov6bel7ct4oxuzlI1Kd0vfeHYQ7XndYtxNgbJ0HyWE

          Disclaimer that making 5.56 AP bullets is illegal, all information is for academic purposes only, I am not responsible for anyone else's actions and do not recommend that anyone does anything illegal blah blah blah

          >If the tip was replaced with a harder material

          The harder steel tip in M855A1 improves AP performance over M193 so I expect that yes, this would generally be the case.

          >home brewing ceramic cores
          Keep in mind that the ceramic strike face of a plate is better thought of as a wall of gemstone rather than something like a kitchen plate, in fact that's almost literally what alumina is. Toughness, density, and resistance to shattering will probably be more important than sheer hardness, e.g. tungsten heavy alloy seemingly outperforms WC-Co cermets even though it's actually softer than M855 steel.

  32. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >inna Iraq and Afghanistan
    >an estimated rounds fired 250,000 for every insurgent killed
    suppose the wounding effect does not matter so much when most of your shots are not aimed at anything specific

  33. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's simple: People are fricking stupid.

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