I've been thinking about building a rifle that would simultaneously be a battle rifle and a sniper rifle. I figure most of my targets would be within 500 yards, so .308 would make a lot more sense than 6.5 Creedmoor, since it is more powerful within 400 yards. The thing is, should I just get a normal 20-inch barrel, or should I get a CMMG Endeavor with a 24-inch barrel? My original idea was to get a high-magnification 15x+ scope and have a canted red dot alongside it, but I could also just get a 1-10x HD LPVO. I'm not sure what sort of optic or optic combination I should go with. My fantasy is that I would at some point in the future use this to do sniping from a skyscraper rooftop while also being able to use the thing as a battle rifle.
there is a reason real precision rifles are almost always boltys. I doubt you're going to get acceptable long range performance from an AR. At least not worth using a 24" barrel generally.
anon you can get reliable sub-moa accuracy out of semi-auto guns.
This isn't 2001, dad
OP, look up velocity by the inch 308. And then make your decision. I have a 20-in 308 AR-10 and I'm extremely happy I didn't go with anything longer.
>sniper rifle and battle rifle
>for targets inside of 500m
>24 in
>with a 15x optic and canted red dot
I think you are jacking off to two separate scenarios in your head and you're crossing the wires, like kids who saw Bugs Bunny dressing up as a woman and kissing Elmer Fudd and became transsexual furries instead of picking one struggle
What the fuck is wrong with you?
transexual furry would be my guess
welcome newfren.
Autism speaks
U L T R A B A S E D
Meds
Now
YWNBAW. Or an anthropomorphic wolf.
OP's post reads like some 15-year-old's cowadooty fantasy.
he´s right,
you go 13" to 20" with that lvpo
or you go 20" up to whatever with that 15x scope
but since you are furry chud you wont do shit but licking dicks.
picture is what the Bundeswehr uses as an DMR up to 800m with 16"
A 24 inch barrel is on the unweildy side on a bolt rifle, itll be doubly so on an ar10.
If youre wanting double duty out ofna semi auto id do a medium or heavier contour, 16 inch with a silencer.
Alright. There's a reason why it seems like the only producer of 24-inch AR-10 barrels is CMMG. What about a 20-inch barrel, or a 20-inch barrel with a suppressor? The original AR-10 came with a 20.8-inch barrel, and it wasn't designed for long-range shooting. It came standard with iron sights.
Long Barrels dont equal accuracy, especially at the 500 yard mark in your OP.
24 inch barrels would be useful if you need every single foot per second to be effective at 1000 yards, a weapon that can do that would be unsuitable as a battle rifle.
16 inch barrels in .308 dont lose very much velocity from 20 inches, with a supressed 16 inch you dont exceed the length of an unsupressed 20 by much.
this
for both 5.56 and .308, 18-20" gives you the best compromise for energy and portability, beyond that you're hitting diminishing returns.
Also, 500m ain't sniping, don't think about it as a dual purpose rifle. You're just describing a battle rifle with a scope, and any AR-10 will do that just fine, just mount something like a 2-8x.
If you wanna do silly fantasy shit, build a .300 WSM AR-10 with a 24" barrel and longer-than-rifle-length gas system with adjustable gas block.
Remember that with any round you're considering the suppressor would just be there to help prevent hearing damage.
Well between this and that sniping is an action, it can be done with most any longarm, though some are better suited to that activity than others.
An accurate enough BR will fill a sniper role fine.
If you go suppressed go with 16", if you go unsuppressed go 20". A suppressed 20" 308 will be about 24"-26" long. Most 308's come with a 21" option which is really already overkill so don't worry so much about it especially within your distances.
>Most 308's come with a 21" option
That would be the way Stoner intended. I could have the suppressor as an addon that I install whenever I'd use the rifle for sniping, like from a skyscraper rooftop.
So you intend on shooting from a rooftop supressed and then want to remove your supressor to larperate through a building to get away?
I'd take the rifle apart after completing my job, and leave the building, completely covering my body, including wearing a balaclava. People typically don't mind, especially during winter. I would just need to bring a backpack with me.
Then why even bother with close range capability?
Bring a small concealable PDW during your trips too and from your shooting location.
>Then why even bother with close range capability?
The idea of having a canted red dot for close-range shooting seems pretty based, but if I got a 1-10x LPVO, then that idea wouldn't make any sense.
No it would make perfect sense because 1x on an lpvo sucks.
Youre trying to combine too many things into the same rifle while you could make a better comprise or forgo compromise all together and have two purpose built guns.
>No it would make perfect sense because 1x on an lpvo sucks.
It actually looks really nice on a Vortex Razor HD Gen III. It somehow manages to give you a wider field of view, despite being 1x magnification.
Its still inferior to a red dot.
It's superior to a red dot an magnifier if you're primarily going to be using the rifle under magnification.
Who mentioned magnifiers?
Were talking about a piggybacked or canted red dot.
An lpvo, imo, is in its own way such a compromise that it borders on being a bad concept especially when pushing the magnification passed 6x on the top end.
The vortex 1-10 has a dogshit max mag and 1x and at that magnification youbare absolutely better off with a 3-9 or a 2.5-10 mpvo with a dot.
>Were talking about a piggybacked or canted red dot.
You weren't explicit with this in your posts. The first thing that popped in my head was LPVOs vs red dots and magnifiers.
>The vortex 1-10 has a dogshit max mag
Vortex makes the best LPVO. It's called the Vortex Razor HD Gen III. It also comes in a scope form with 6-36x magnification.
No they dont
Its in the OP fren, OP wants a reddot on his larp machine.
Both of those posts were mine. I'm the OP. I'm trying to figure out whether I should have an LPVO, a high-zoom scope with a canted red dot, or maybe even a holographic sight with a 6x magnifier.
Id get a 2.5 to 10 with a canted dot, whether you go with a 16 or a 20 or
a 4-16 with an accompanying PDW, either a chassis pistol or shorty AR.
>with an accompanying PDW
My choice would be a P90. Bringing a PDW is actually a really based idea. If I'd come into contact with any enemies in the skyscraper, then I'd have quite the upper hand, although I wouldn't have the stopping power of a rifle. Why wouldn't a 20-inch AR be a sufficiently maneuverable rifle indoors?
I thought you were going to break it down and stow it in your pack?
You'd need a big backpack.
This is what I was thinking about. I could just bring a long rifle bag and try to be as inconHispanicuous as possible. I'd obviously separate the rifle into top and lower.
>I'd obviously separate the rifle into top and lower.
I know it sounds retarded that I literally stated that, but it had to be stated.
Also, this would be civil war activity. I would be taking down HVTs for my militia.
A larp supreme
>I could have the suppressor as an addon that I install whenever I'd use the rifle for sniping
You know they get hot as fuck right? You're not going to be taking it off when you're done unless you wait a bit.
The length isnt always about ballistics, old rifles were designed without hearing protection in mind, you wont get teeth rattling muzzle blast from a 20 inch .308 but you deffinitely will from an unsupressed 16.
maybe unwieldy for running around with for a long time, but if he's just sitting around punching paper at a range (and we know that's all it's ever going to be), but 24" on a bolt gun is fine. pic related is a 28" grendel and a 26" 700VSS. for 500 yards max it's a huge waste, though.
Yeah we know what its really going to be used for, but OPs idea doesnt mesh with his larp fantasy, my suggestions do though.
I'd call you a retard if the notion of a <16" AR10 didn't make the military gush in their pants (which they'd then proceed to make ungainly again by shoving as much shit as taxpayer money can buy on the rifle). Personally, I'd rather have an unwieldy AR with 100 fps more velocity for a DMR. 22" is where it's at, ESPECIALLY in 6.5 sneed.
Wells thanks for not reading the OP and not calling me a retard, retard.
Oh, I don't mean the OP wanted 6.5 Sneed. I mean I would want 6.5 Sneed. Confusing phrasing on my part. The cool thing about your 16" barrel and silencer is when you're done shooting you can stimulate your prostate by sticking the buttstock on the ground and the can in your loose, wanting hole.
Enjoy your extra 100 fps your 8 inches of barrel gets you dipshit.
>100 fps
Always take the velocity gains.
>6.5 Sneedmoor
God's chosen caliber to make natomorons seethe.
>not 45aarp
god has forsaken you
It's two sides of the same train being run on them. The 45 AARP gets them from behind with the girth and the 6.5 Sneed goes for length. They'll only understand their place when they're losing to both the past and future.
>God's chosen caliber
You mean .30-06?
Amen, brother. Amen.
>I'd call you a retard if the notion of a <16" AR10 didn't make the military gush in their pants
> <16" AR10
> didn't make the military gush in their pants
what is the ngsw
Yes, that is the reference.
24" is the minimum.
you need to be 18 or older to post here
I am several years older than that. I just have no idea what I should build for a semiauto rifle firing a proper rifle caliber.
Once real reviews of durability come out on the Ruger SFAR it would fit the bill of ot works a 1 moa gun at 500 is a kill shot if you do your job half assed well. 16 inch is fine espeacially with a can ammo quality is going to be your biggest concern.
So Ruger SFAR 1000
Primary arms 1-6 with ACSS 500
Light 100
Sling and other shit 200
Under 2k you have a minute of man @500 light enough and useful enough for a patrol rifle.
Now crossing 500 is another issue.
.t I built a DPMS to do just that before it was cool and other than heavy as fuck it still does the job.
"Battle rifle" a 24" barrel musket. What exactly does that fantasy look like to you? Volly fire at red coats? Fixed bayonets so you can reach out 6 feet? Op... much more important than the barrel length is a certain guarantee of MOA. 1" and it's acceptable for up to 1000m targets. Since you mention CCMG, I assume you have a budget. Just get a 20" Ballistic Advantage barrel. They promise 1", or you send it back for a replacement. 20" is more than enough for what you want to do. Honestly if 500m is what will scratch your itch, build an 18" AR15. The right barrel will do 800m, and give you plenty to learn from working out to that distance, for a lot cheaper $ per round. 500m qualifications were done by marines with iron sights until 2008. Its not ricket science. 1x10 is a better idea than a high power scope. You don't need to count someone's eyelashes to make a shot land, in fact that much zoom is a hindrance rather than an aid. Makes target acquisition, shot correction, and transfer between targets more difficult.
Lol a battle rifle has a 16" pencil barrel. U confused
The M1 Garand was a battle rifle.
I have a 308 ar10 with a 20" heavy barrel and its way too heavy to be a battle rifle.
He doesn't do pushups.
If you have to have a semi auto buy a Springfield M1A.
If I want to reach out past 500 yards with accuracy I would buy a Bergara chambered in 308.
Srsly, check out the Long Range Shooting tutorial Tiborasaurus Rex has on YouTube. You will learn a lot
How much velocity do you get out of the last 6" of barrel? If the 4" after 20 is worth it, the 4 more inches to 28 are worth it.
>since it is more powerful within 400 yards
18'' is sufficient, stop chasing marginal gains (or just get a Sneedmore bolt)
Bump. Changing the direction of the thread. If I get a 20-inch AR-10, should I go with an LPVO, a high-zoom scope with a canted red dot, or a holographic sight with a 6x magnifier?
>holographic sight with a 6x magnifier
Please don't waste your time on this. BCA has a red dot with a range finder that suits your approximate range. Other than that, you could get a multi-coated 6-24x50 CVlife scope for 55$ that would be drastically better than dropping 1.3k on pure,unadulterated retardation.
>a high-zoom scope with a canted red dot
This but piggy back the red dot instead of canted.
I'm going to assume we're still talking about the 500 yard range shooting at bad guys from atop a skyscraper fantasy here. I'm of the opinion that you're either going to carry a sidearm or GTFO before being found out, because carrying two rifles is literal vidya tier fantasy
> LPVO
Consider a MPVO. Something that starts in the 8x range, maybe starting with a 10x. Shooting at that range with a lower magnification is already difficult, target identification at that range is even harder. The purpose of the scope is to give you a a clearer view of the target(s). If you're the Hollywood hero, you don't need an extremely wide field of view to scan the horizon, you're sniping at the place the bad guys are and need to be able to keep a close eye on a relatively small area. If you even needed to shoot at the base of the building you're in or across the way at the roof of another, a 10x is still very usable down to well within 100 yards.
> high-zoom scope with a canted red dot
Good for all of the reasons stated above, minus the red dot. If you have enemies that are within red dot range and out of scope range in this scenario, they're in the same room as you, and that's a job for your sidearm or for point-shooting your rifle.
> holographic sight with a 6x magnifier
This is leaning much more towards a 300yd battle rifle style of gun than a SPR you'd sneak into a building with. If you're expecting a close range engagement you will absolutely get a solid K/D, but you're going to die in the process.
> secret 4th option
Bring 2 upper receivers, a supressor, and 1 lower. A 20" barrel upper with a MPVO or high-zoom scope, and a 16" upper with a red dot and flashlight. You have a rifle to fight your way in and out with (if you go that retarded route), and a rifle to snipe with, and it takes seconds to switch between the two. Throw it in a guitar case and call it a day, and you can still carry a pistol.
Absolutely based. This is the most valuable post in this thread.
Get a decent optic first and slap it on a rifle you already own and try to do a bit of longer range shooting before financially committing to a whole setup so you know what to expect and what you're really looking for, things like knowing that a 10x isn't really a whole lot of magnification at even relatively shorter ranges is something only fully understood first hand. You'd spend hours waiting and watching even in this fantasy before taking your first shot, so you're going to want to be able to see more than little people-shaped ants to establish patterns and ID targets
Alright. The process of mounting a scope seems pretty laborious and time consuming. If I'm buying a new rifle, I'm getting the scope with it. What would you say about the Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36x56? I'm going to need to teach myself all about long range shooting.
36x is way more than you need for 308. Probably too much for 6.5creed. Unless you're dropping a lot of money, the long end of those super zooms are typically dark and fuzzy.
>the long end of those super zooms are typically dark and fuzzy.
That's perfectly fine. The 1-10x version of the scope is a bit blurry after 6x magnification.
If it's dark. It depends on illumination. My cheap cvlife gets solid magnification out to x24 in bright daylight but if I'm under an awning on a cloudy day it drops to x16.
>carrying two rifles is literal vidya tier fantasy
>Bring 2 upper receivers
>it takes seconds to switch
The two receiver idea is much,much worse. I get that only two pins divides a receiver change bit honestly if you want to take two rifles it's easier just to unsling one and sling the other than start pulling pins out and fiddling with another receiver in a backpack. Two rifles is slightly heavier but much more quick to change out.
Get a 5-25x and mount a red dot or whatever on top. Don't cant it and it'll be useful for quick target acquisition without having to deal with zooming, and it's better for overwatch.
>See activity
>Place dot on target
>Scope is on target and zoomed in
The tall HOB isn't really an issue if you aren't retarded
within 500 yards you don't need a 24 inch barrel or even a 308
Don't do it. Do a 20" in .308 or 22" in 6.5cm. Everyone builds these gigga AR10's then end up selling them due to length, weight, never shooting it. You WILL regret a super long/heavy AR10
LaRue OBR 7.62
you're going to die battling heart disease, so make sure your gun is useful for that first
>simultaneously be a battle rifle and a sniper rifle
I know this is going to make me sound bitchmade but I tried that and mine is heavy as fuck. I wish I went for a purely long range build. Anything closer than that is better suited with a 5.56 gun.
>heavy as fuck
Must have spec'd it wrong.
You had ONE job, and you didn't put. 22 SNEED. Haze yourself
this
Rog that. And it was a custom request.
Why not just get a nice sako finnbear in 30-06?
What's the point of this?
>What's the point of this?
So that I can be a based Hollywood sniper on the rooftop of a skyscraper.
For 500 yards or less, you don't even need a 20" barrel. An 18" would suffice. A 24" barrel makes it a dedicated precision rifle. You are not going to be shouldering that thing with any regularity, I guarantee it. Build a lightweight AR-10 in .308 with an 18" barrel. Put a 2-10x optic on it with perhaps offset red dot or irons and call it a day. Thank me later.
Head on over to /brg/ and start asking around. We might make fun of you for the long barrel, but >500yd shooting is well within Battle Rifle territory and nowhere near Sniper territory unless you're shooting at a 4in target. A couple frens regularly shoot FALs out to like 600 and 800 yards, but if you're looking to min/max you can probably find good info there on applicable scopes and ballistic autism
3/10 bait
I like the idea of one rifle that can do a lot of different stuff, but the closer you get to the precision rifle side the farther you get away from the maneuverable barrier penetrating urban combat rifle that a battle rifle is generally intended to be these days. You can put a big long barrel on your rifle and a big powerful scope with a red dot on it for closer range stuff or scanning for targets, and it would be excellent for long range precision shooting but heavy and cumbersome for moving around cover and getting in and out of vehicles and moving through structures and stuff. A shorter barrel rifle is much better for movement and tactics and would still be fine for the oddball 200 to 300 yard "long range" shot you might need to make in combat or perimeter defense.