>After a giant very public disaster that kills hundreds of muggles is caught on camera from many angles, the muggle governments are finally forced to acknowledge the existence of the wizarding world
>An attempt to force wizarding ministries and secret governments to obey the sovereign muggle states they exist within leads to conflict
>The Wizard vs Muggle War begins, in which the muggles' goal is to compel wizards to give up their secret governments and join normal society and obey normal laws
Which side wins? I feel like the muggles' superior firepower can't realistically be countered, but the wizards' espionage, teleportation, and ability to charm places to go unseen isn't counterable, either. Maybe some kind of tracking devices on wizards who don't know, then sending missiles when they go to their magic sanctums?
I think the meta from the muggle side would just be to use our superior amount of money to pay wizards to kill other wizards for us.
It's like how the Chinese always had steppe people to their north that could beat the shit out of China, so they would defuse the threat by paying tribute and getting them to fight amongst themselves. Or like with Putin and Kadyrov.
We had a pretty indepth thread on this like, a week ago? Basically
0) To get it out of the way, Rowling's world building is pretty crap and all over the place so it's not actually worth taking very seriously. I don't even mean that as an insult really, I didn't know until last thread but apparently HP was literally her very first book. Normally brand new authors get a few books to learn with and make normal new author mistakes and move on before getting into big series. Once in a long while they happen to get a runaway hit right off though and get stuck. She didn't do some big plan upfront in 1993 or whenever it was she started on it, and a lot of the early stuff is all over the place, pure goal driven rule of cool utility, not self-consistency. She is also very fem british and hates/knows little about guns or war. Since anything in this discussion hinges big time on shit like "are there millions of tens of thousands of wizards" that makes it all kinda eh.
1) That said, magic is stupid powerful if used in serious ways in the series. Rowling generally has wizards behave in dumb ways, or perhaps "civilized" ones given their power level. But if we speculate a war where wizards had to get their shit together, it'd be tough with our current paradigms.
2) However it takes very little magic to counter the most serious magic, and muggle tech/raw firepower is massively better. So is correct: the big thing would be to get at least a handful of wizards on conventional governments side. Which seems practical. They then cast anti-teleport charms on the Pentagon etc, reveal all basic knowledge. AI would be very helpful now.
3) If wizards just decide to give up and be left alone middle of nowhere that'd be pretty impossible to stop, though that'd leave muggles effectively victorious.
Random fun fact: the first Harry Potter book was written on table napkins while JK was working as a waitress and raising two kids. She was just making it up as she went along.
>Random fun fact: the first Harry Potter book was written on table napkins while JK was working as a waitress and raising two kids. She was just making it up as she went along.
I think in the final 2-4 books she finally started getting some assistance and thinking things through a little further ahead and tried to back away from some of the early mistakes. It was a clear big hit at that point so suddenly way more money and publisher caring about it and shit. She went further and further away from "muggles and wizards side by side" by the end and it was wizard world only. Like when they're on the run in the final they go out into the fucking woods instead of losing themselves in the mass of urban muggle humanity which would have been a lot more comfortable.
Anyway, I've seen that happen with authors a couple of times. In some ways it's kind of a shame, they have some kernel of a really good thing, but don't really have the skill to execute it, and unlike normal authors who end up with a solid array of different works they become "The XYZ Series Author" and can never do anything else. Rather then building up to the big thing, it comes out of the blue, and then nothing else they do ever tops it and it's like, oh. Yeah they made a shitload of money, but still seems to leave a lot of them in kind of a weird spot, to be "done" with a career in their 40s or something. And the focus of all kinds of weirdo fans and big commercial business that just wants them to pump out more more more.
Not true at all. Rowling was on the dole when she wrote the books and living in council housing. This is despite coming from a wealthy family.
Bullshit. Paper is cheap and napkins are hard to write on
Imagine thinking this hard about it
Lol @ knowing this gay shit
I can't entertain the idea of adult men knowing anything about this shit unless they have daughters they read it to (in which case, based). Do you all spend the rest of your time on /mlp/?
Anon, I was in elementary school when the last Harry Potter book released. I'm 24.
I was edgy enough to read Artemis Fowl instead, but a decent number of guys my age read HP when they were 10.
That's fine. This is not called /harry potter and the gay of morons/
This is called PrepHole.
ur a sad little fuck, and u should chill because it’s a Mongolian basket weaving forum
You must be 18 to post on PrepHole
I was in elementary when the first one came out and I read it too. I've forgotten most of it though because I'm a grown adult with a wife and a job.
Congrats on your Alzheimer's. My father literally read it to me when I was a child, and I'm 25 with a job and a fiancee of my own. I remember almost all of it because I don't have brain damage.
You having a shitty memory doesn’t make you cool.
>I was edgy enough to read Artemis Fowl instead,
Based. Superior book. The part where they swapped eyeballs made me hard.
thank fuck we didn't have the comics then, I'd have fapped endlessly to Holly Short
I used to think Artemis Fowl was somehow more cool but tbh it's for readers of even lower level than HP
Alex Rider is a tad better
>the wizards are in hiding because they can't compete against witch hunters
Anon, a medieval witch used to get tied up and "burned" over and over for shits and giggles
It was all downhill after Opal Deception
>Alex Rider is a tad better
Those were great
Imagine being this insecure. The first one came out in 1997 man, 26 fucking years ago. If some people started reading it in elementary school they'd still be in their 30s with a family now.
>I can't remember anything I read from that long ago
We aren't all in our 70s or 80s going senile with decaying memory either anon. Also I tend to find that stuff I read or was read to me as a kid, like the Aubrey/Maturin novels, really is etched into my memory.
>I can't entertain the idea of adult men knowing anything about this shit
You are 20 years old or 50+ and childless. How dare people who were children read children’s books and remember the details
>3) If wizards just decide to give up and be left alone middle of nowhere that'd be pretty impossible to stop, though that'd leave muggles effectively victorious.
This is kind of the status quo in HP anyway, the wizards are in hiding because they can't compete against witch hunters
>Rowling's world building is pretty crap and all over the place
It's actually pretty good, but you have to remember that it's dumbed down because it's an ages 8-15 book
JKR had a classical education (liberal arts to yanks) so she inserted a fair few mythological references
also nobody has ever disputed she has a knack for wordplay
(Probity Probes, lmao)
HP is arguably *more* self-consistent than most high fantasy or even SF (cough Star Trek cough), she formulated a set of "invisible rules of magic" and stuck to them throughout, but chose to imply the rather than describe them - whether that was a good idea is definitely debatable, but the rules exist
>1) That said, magic is stupid powerful
the HP world is one where the wizards have already won; they live as they wish, do as they will, subvert Heads of Governments whenever they feel like it, attack key members of Govt and hush up said attack, and nobody is the wiser
they live in hiding literally only because of benevolence - they don't want to enslave or destroy the non-magical world
>It's actually pretty good, but you have to remember that it's dumbed down because it's an ages 8-15 book
No, it was not dumbed down, that was her best effort at the time. There's tons of self-inconsistencies and things she dropped later because it'd fuck things up. Stop being retarded. I'm not even criticizing her either, it was a first book, she didn't know it'd take off and turn into an entire universe. She also matured as an author over the next 15 years. But that doesn't change the fact that the foundations are super shaky. Again, based on canon references there could be literally 3-4 orders of magnitude differences in global wizard population. Tens of thousands vs tens of millions is kind of a big fucking difference anon.
>they live in hiding literally only because of benevolence - they don't want to enslave or destroy the non-magical world
If population is on the lower end of the range, then no they just can't even with their magic. Too many regulars. And most wizards can't do the powerful stuff as well. Further the pace of tech continues to accelerate. HP started kind of "plausible" at its time of the late 90s and early 00s. But in a world of ubiquitous AI networked surveillance and shit it's hard to see how there wouldn't be a break down unless they went into alternate worlds. Realistically too it makes no sense that zero wizards in history would have "defected". But that would have hurt the story.
Again I have zero issue with something just being fun. Silly fantasy magic works like your mentioned Star Trek or the more honest Star Wars can be a good time.
>the foundations are super shaky
only because you're retardedly basing everything on Book 1 and solely Book 1, when Book 5 is where a huge chunk of the worldbuilding actually is
>based on canon references there could be literally 3-4 orders of magnitude differences in global wizard population. Tens of thousands vs tens of millions
Not at all
We can narrow down the UK wizard population to roughly 15,000 give or take a few thousand
>started kind of "plausible" at its time of the late 90s and early 00s. But in a world of ubiquitous AI networked surveillance and shit
Magic fucks electronics
Otherwise you couldn't pilot a flying fucking car let alone try to murder somebody in the Western hemisphere's most surveilled city
>it makes no sense that zero wizards in history would have "defected"
Sure it can: what do you think the wizard police spend all their time doing? finding those "defectors", taking them out and erasing the evidence
>I have zero issue with something just being fun
Yeah, and I don't begrudge you the nitpicking. Save that with HP, there really aren't as many nits to pick as one might expect. Just that because it's "a ChIlDrEnS bOoKs" people give it more guff than, say, the fucking MCU, when it makes MORE sense in certain ways.
>Tony Stark scatters thousands of bits of nanotech all over the world
>Consumer technology remains about the same level as IRL
>if you just ignore this part of the books in favor of this part it's consistent
gay. It states all kinds of shit. It says there are "ten times more Muggles than wizards in the world" which would mean 700 million wizards worldwide. It also states 3000 wizards total in all of Britain, which means 1/3 of the total go just to hogwarts which makes no fucking sense either. It's all over the place. She didn't think it out before starting the series. Deal with it.
>Magic fucks electronics
Only in specific places like hogwarts with super high magic concentration. That's stated too. And OBVIOUS because otherwise computers wouldn't work anywhere. Stop being retarded.
>Otherwise you couldn't pilot a flying fucking car
Notice how she dropped that thread and never touched it again. Because magitech would totally fuck her chosen world setup. And she could just say the car cloaking worked vs radar too.
>Save that with HP, there really aren't as many nits to pick as one might expect wow
>It says there are "ten times more Muggles than wizards in the world
>It also states 3000 wizards total in all of Britain
If you can post even just the chapter in Philosopher's Stone where this is supposedly stated, I'd kneel
If you can't, kiss my ring
>Only in specific places like hogwarts with super high magic concentration. That's stated too
In this case you're taking the quote out of context
>she dropped that thread and never touched it again
>flies magic buses, broomsticks, flying fucking horses, flying fucking motorbikes and a flying fucking dark lord through London
why not just admit you never read the books?
Fuck you you drooling fantard. I'm not hunting through the movie or book for the exact phase for a series that doesn't fucking matter. I did do a quick google and it says that in the fanwiki as well, so it passed muster amongst the crazed fanboys there too, argue it with them if you think we're all wrong.
No, correct. Because again, if it wasn't ALL TECH WOULDN'T FUCKING WORK. We had computers, the internet, mobile phones and the web and so on in fucking 1997 anon. Rowling wasn't postulating an AU Earth where no technology existed on the muggle side. If magic disrupted it everywhere, then there'd never have been computers in the first place. She just didn't want that to be part of her story and so came up with a quick convenient deus ex to eliminate it and that was that.
>broomsticks, horses, and self flight are magically altered muggle technology
You absolute complete fucking retard. The bike got dropped too. Rowling didn't want to deal with "well why doesn't the wizard government just make magic APCs and tanks and magical attack helicopters" hence why she scrubbed it all. The point isn't "flight" you drooling moron the point was magitek. Rare magical creatures, incredibly rare/hard self spells (you "read the books" but forgot animal transformation? or only voldemort/snape flying?), and the classic broomstick aren't magitek.
Avada kedavra (9mm) yourself.
>The bike got dropped
Literally the first event in Book 7
why not just admit you never read the books?
>I did do a quick google and it says that in the fanwiki
so it wasn't ackshually
>It states all kinds of shit. It says there are "ten times more Muggles than wizards in the world" which would mean 700 million wizards worldwide. It also states 3000 wizards total in all of Britain
"It" turned out to be a quick google after all.
>Avada kedavra (9mm)
>we literally have a moron who defending harry fucking potter as the pinnacle of literature and good world building
>also a noguns who thinks rifle rounds are handgun rounds
It'd be sad if it wasn't so pathetic.
so what you're saying is you have no response and got btfo? cool cool
Do I need to say anything further to someone who didn't read the books, read a lot of forum hearsay, pretended to know it all, claimed that "it" said this and that, got called out, did a quick google, doesn't know the context of what his quick google uncovered (citing a fan wiki, lmao),
and now is desperately trying to cover it up instead of taking the L and walking away?
remember, the context is anon claimed:
>it was a first book
>this part of the books
>It states all kinds of shit
But it turns out that "this part of the books" was "a quick google and fan wiki".
>couldn't connect Avada Kedavra with Avtomat Kalashnikov even given the hint
double digit IQ, a curse more powerful than anything JK could conceive of
>they live in hiding literally only because of benevolence
No they went into hiding because of the witch hunts
>they don't want to enslave or destroy the non-magical world
Most don’t. Some do. The ones that do are the ultra powerful wizards (mostly) and they didn’t enslave the muggle world outside of a couple individuals. You can argue if that is purely because of plot or because they couldn’t.
>they went into hiding because of the witch hunts
Because they'd rather hide than impose their will; the witch burnings were said to be so ineffective some witch took it as a joke to be "burned" over and over
>or because they couldn’t
They seem capable enough, given they can hush up a series of high-profile attacks with glowie-tier super-efficiency
literally never happened
someone doesn't know the lore very well...
guns beat magic.
that is canon.
Only in a direct confrontation. Obviously in an all-out war wizards would have to fight smart.
aw thats cute.
they think the addled wizards that don't even know how guns work are "gonna fight smart"
the wizards that were so fucking muddled it took some KIDS to win their stupid fucking war.
>guys hagrid is stronk so uhhhhhh guns LOSE!
yes... yes vernon with his shotgun was REALLY gonna represent the bitter reality.
pacifist giant halfbreed runts are REAAAAAALLLY gonna make a difference lmao.
Canon is Hagrid taking Vernon's shotgun and turning it into a pretzel, anon.
Hagrid is also not entirely human
Half giant, half wizard. It's intentionally meant to be something of a head scratcher as to how that kind of person is conceived when full giants are 20-25 feet tall.
My point was that saying “Hagrid no-selled a shotgun, therefore guns are useless against wizards” is retarded because Hagrid was far from average.
It's been a long ass time, but can't these gays just conjure gold bars and currency at will?
If they can, why isn't every wizard rich (like those Weasley hobos)? Maybe it's impossible.
How does a farmer who can instantly magic away labor even become poor.
Shitty writing in a childrens book.
Because they had seven kids on the income of a low to middling level government employee.
They were cash poor but land rich.
That only makes sense in principle, in practice having a farm and a government job and being able to literally wave your hand to do housework and farming, which they can, means they wouldn't be living in squalor.
>being able to literally wave your hand to do housework and farming, which they can
You're seriously overrating magic here
When we see Mrs Weasley doing chores, she's not waving her wand and instamagicking shit clean - she's enchanting dishes to scrub themselves, knives to cut food, etc. Magic replaces the dishwasher, Cuisinart, washing machine, etc but the efficiency gain over and on top of household appliances is not humongous.
That said, IRL one woman cannot do all that AND grow food for nine. So there's your magic value-add. The farm subsidises the food bill tremendously (if not outright replaces it), but the super-efficiency of magic probably doesn't outweigh having that many kids.
Mrs Weasley is probably one of the top fifty casters in a setting where people enchant mops to clean floors by themselves and children can levitate tree trunks with a wave of their dick.
any plans on how we can take down Raya Lucaria?
Do we have enough Tarnish to send to wreck their academy?
Polyjuice, Unplottability, Apparating, and Imperio means any war against Wizards is a failure before it even begins.
>Polyjuice, Unplottability, Apparating, and Imperio means any war against Wizards is a failure before it even begins.
yeah. Though the handwave you could give there is that only a tiny fraction of wizards can do 3 of the 4 of those.
But still we're just not really setup to deal with that kind of shit, where suddenly our entire central command gets mind controlled.
The wizard strategy is just to use teleportation or the invisibility cloaks to sneak into important muggles HQs and imperio them to switch sides. It would be like The Thing or They Live except no Kurt Russel to save us.
We have contingency plans for all of these things.
Shit's real boys.
>contingency plans for things they don't know exist
The governments did indeed know that wizards exist
Only the British PM (and thus conceivably other heads of state), and he was helpless enough that the wizards laughed at the idea of him revealing their existence to anyone else
It's more about preparing for reveal of potential enemy tactics and technologies.
We also have contingency plans for zombie outbreaks and the likes.
Can’t argue with those quads
I want to argue against you but with those digits I'm probably wrong anyway.
Was imperio ever effectively used in any of the books? It seems like the most powerful spell of them all to fuck with people, but I can't remember an example.
Voldemort used it to puppet the entire wizard government in the last book
Harry used it on a goblin during his Gringotts heist.
I don't understand what resistance these things grant to 155mm shrapnel shells?
Protego can stop arrows, what makes you think it cannot stop shrapnel?
The impossibly vast difference in kinetic energy and more importantly the fact that you usually tend to see a volley of arrows coming
The whole problem with fighting HP wizards is the "find" and "fix" part
It is for this purpose that area bombing was invented
>try to bomb wizard
>they've teleported into your command post and imperio'd everyone
>get shot for treason for attempting to bomb your own positions
your mistake is assuming that the muggles would be able to stay organized against an enemy that can subvert any military or political command easily
>I say! I do believe there's something to master Funglebutts radical theory that deodorant is not a muggle communication device but what do you mean "command post" is that some kind of muggle letter service?
>General, I want you to nuke London, it's the only way
>Prime Minister, what are you talking about?
>It's the wizard headquarters
>you're off your rocker
>General I want you to nuke London, it's full of Englishmen
>I already launched the nuke when you started the word "London", can we nuke the rest of Brittain while we're at it?
You can also hear shells coming.
They can also apparate miles away at will. They can also conjure literal napalm that will turn your whole platoons into dust, and spreads until it's intentionally stopped.
Rowling outright said that the Wizarding world couldn't stand up to modern Muggles, because a farmer with a shotgun could kill any seasoned wizard.
>find the other side of that train station wall they walk through
>get fifty guys with machineguns pointed at a door that nobody can see or hear through
>wizards are few and far between, even fewer (like literally 10 lol) are willing to use the instakill spell that's roughly as effective as a normal handgun
>meanwhile every muggle can grab their trusty FAL and start slottin' every goof with a wand from 300+ yards away
muggle victory 0/10 difficulty
>dumb take on war
>informed take on war
In the books and movies the wizards time and time again show themselves to be a bunch of retarded morons.
Sure they have some really overpowered and broken stuff but they'd lose this war due to their own incompetence and inevitable infighting.
Children's books for girls and extreme normies. Adults that think about Harry Potter weird me out.
Wizzards would just go full guerilla.
Probably a lot of suicide whizzarding against high ranking personell and politicians.
After few happening muggle leaders would go underground to places wizzards dont know about.
Bro just do right wing south American dictator coup shit on the wizzers. Muggles have plenty of experience doing that.
One thing to keep in mind is that most wizards aren't particularly powerful, and can't do the crazy OP shit that powerful wizards can do. So while there might be thousands of wizards in the UK, the number that would be useful in a war would be far smaller. However, the competent powerful wizards would be able to wreck some serious shit. Someone like Dumbledore could just apparate into the Kremlin, and imperio Putin to launch all his nukes at the US and collapse muggle civilization.
Wouldn't be enough. To make sure nukes actually fly, you'd need to imperio the guys sitting on all the buttons.
Nuclear armageddon wipes out a few billion muggles and 90% of their industrial base.
Wizarding forces involved: A handful.
Voldemort was not retarded. He just continually got fucked over by absurd luck and bullshit obscure magical phenomenon. There, I fucking said it
Yeah you said something retarded, how brave.
Nah, I’m right. The only objectively bad decision he made was choosing to duel Harry in the graveyard. And even then he got fucked over the brother wands, which absolutely nobody could have expected to happen.
He would disagree with you considering he literally says "attacking the baby after killing the mother was a fuck up I know about that magic I shouldn't have risked it"
>tries to kill a child
>plenty of chances to kill said child in 1st book
>BTFO at end of the year
>4th book, evil monologue
>BTFO in front of his slaves
>BTFO by dumbledore AND the child again
>moves out of shadows
>literal LE MONKE moment
>7th book, enraged after his mad bitch got BTFO by a literal housewife
>moments later BTFO for the final time
Voldemort is a mongoloid confirmed.
Forcing Harry to sacrifice himself was retarded. Voldy knew why his spell backfired on him and said he wouldn't make the same mistake again, but he did anyway.
He never said such thing.
He still knew why it happened.
No, he didn't know why it happened. He was clueless until the very end.
>You see, when dear sweet Lily Potter gave her life for her only son, it provided him with the ultimate protection, I could not touch him. It was old magic, something I should have foreseen.
You're missing that Dumbledore layered Harry with at least three counters to Voldemort's spell the second time round
Wizards don't live in a post-scarcity society; there are limits to magic
Obviously due to limitations on the magic
Wizarding basket of goods =/= muggle basket of goods
>cash poor but land rich
IRL there are theoretical "millionaires" who live pretty basic lives; for example, if you inherited a fully paid-up townhouse in the middle of London, but you work a pretty average job
>You're missing that Dumbledore layered Harry with at least three counters to Voldemort's spell the second time round
Harry could've died for real and Voldy would've still lost
With Harry dead, he would never even find out Draco was the real owner of the wand
>Voldemort was not retarded.
>gets btfo’d by a baby
I know most of his failures are for plot purposes but he also makes stupid decisions. He could have imperio’d Peter pettigrew and had him stab Harry. Game over. My main complaint is how he hid some horcruxes. Why couldn’t he hide one at the bottom of the ocean? Or at least the English Channel? Make it somewhere impossible for others to find or get to but he could magically retrieve it. Hell just apparate to the top of Everest and bury it. That last one would require wizards to not be retarded so it can’t happen
Can't wizards just make new spells? A few years into the war a broom raid will fly over a city while casting "Expecto Plutonium!"
The war will end the day after
Wizards can barely dress themselves.
90% of their war meetings on how to deal with the muggle menace would have Billious Wonkor or Scrumbly Dumpercock wasting most of the meeting insisting that the best way to beat the muggles would be to knit them all sweaters that turn your nose green or some shit while at least one ministry member insisted that Muggles do not exist.
You shouldn't be concerned with the average wizard any more than you should be concerned with the average nogun civvie.
You should be concerned with the handful of competent ones, be they Dumbledore- or Snape tier, the death eaters who managed to fit in just fine with muggles before ambushing the trio in a diner, Kingsley Shacklebolt becoming the prime minister's most trusted aide, the likes.
The average wizard doesn't matter at all.
A handful of the elite can enact total muggle death entirely on their own.
>HARRY DID YOU JUST ORDER ANOTHER WIZARD WAVE ON VUHLEDAR?
>CHRIST HARRY WE JUST LOST ANOTHER 70 HUFFLEPUFFS TO GAIN A FEW YARDS OF INSIGNIFICANT MUD
>DO YOU KNOW HOW FAR UP MY ASS THE MINSTRY ALREADY IS AFTER WE LOST THAT DRAGON TO A FUCKING STARSTREAK
>YOU DO REALISE THAT I CAN'T AWARD GRIFINDOR ANY MORE THAN 30 POINTS FOR THIS
If wizards decide to play dirty, they can team up with creatures that are completely impossible for Muggles to fight, like Dementors. A few souls munched here and there, and Muggles will be forced to relent.
>stab through the heart of a magician with his wand
>shove the wand with the heart up the magazine well of rifle
>infite target seeking bullets